Ruling Question: If we were to add Leonin Relic-Warder to the deck, could it be used to permanently exile a target if you used Whitemane Lion to bounce it in response to the ability going on the stack?
Would Dust Elemental fit well in your build? A 6/6 with flying, flash, and fear that bounces 3 creatures for 4 mana seems pretty sick.
I could certainly envision scenarios where it'd be a total house but ultimately it's an extremely unreliable threat that's utterly irrelevant when things aren't going my way. Assuming that I'm just nut drawing turn 2 Genesis Chamber, turn 3 Monument, turn 4 Wall of Omens + Lion/Skyfisher, etc. then sure, I could see it doing it work, but I just hate how weak it feels when I'm being hated out with removal/permission etc. because those are the scenarios that I'm trying to plan for as much as possible. This deck is already stellar at playing the "let's all do our thing" game so my primary concern is making room for cards and effects that help me when everyone and their mother is trying to disrupt my synergies.
I'm assuming that the title of this thread is click bait because Monument is not broken. It's a fair build around card that is fun. There are so many commonly used multiplayer cards that neuter this deck.
I feel that to play this deck you need to either
Play to its strength which is it low to the ground and can rebuild really quickly. So run some Wraths.
Give the deck some reach so that it does not run out of steam if someone plays a board or weenie wipe. Skull clamp would be awesome if your ban / restricted list allows it. Unfortunately there is not much else in white that i can think of to give you draw.
Play enchantment / artifact removal so you don't roll over to other peoples combos / locks.
It just feels like a deck that has no interaction with the rest of the board. You will probably get the tokens to take down 1 or 2 players while they build but the other 2 - 3 players will easily roll you.
Play to its strength which is it low to the ground and can rebuild really quickly. So run some Wraths.
Give the deck some reach so that it does not run out of steam if someone plays a board or weenie wipe. Skull clamp would be awesome if your ban / restricted list allows it. Unfortunately there is not much else in white that i can think of to give you draw.
Play enchantment / artifact removal so you don't roll over to other peoples combos / locks.
It just feels like a deck that has no interaction with the rest of the board. You will probably get the tokens to take down 1 or 2 players while they build but the other 2 - 3 players will easily roll you.
You're absolutely correct in your evaluation. The Monowhite version of the deck is capable of strong games, but only if your opponents stumble in the early game or fail to find removal. That being said, cards like Treasure Hunter help provide resiliency.
A Wrath heavy version would be interesting and something worth testing. For that build, it might be worth testing Trading Post as a way to use your Mrys to draw cards and reclaim binned combo pieces.
Pride has already said that the strongest version of the deck so far is the Boros one. The reason for that being, it provides reach through Impact Tremors and Purphoros, God of the Forge. It doesn't really matter what your opponents do when you can hit everyone for 15 on turn 5. If you're building the Boros version I would say to cut Norin the Wary for artifact and enchantment removal. Fitting in Boros Charm also adds resilience.
Alternatively, a Selesnya version gives us access to Aura Shards at the expense of the burn cards. Beastmaster Ascension could make up for the lack of that though.
It seemed like it would be a really bad draw when things aren't going my way. After all, it also causes cards like Whitemane Lion to trigger twice which is no bueno.
I like the concept. I agree with most posters that the big issues would seem to be getting enough damage through and keeping your board in place.
Considerations: Fortify - actually can provide a nice defensive boost if needed in a pinch Brave the Elements (or Akroma's Blessing if you want the myr too) - super nice for alpha strikes, and also can be defensive Leonin Sun Standard - early, this makes combat much more difficult for your opponents, and mid to late it threatens overruns every turn Rootborn Defenses - premium anti-wrath in a tokens deck Selfless Spirit - ditto, plus this is a creature. minus that your opponents can see it and play around it
Play to its strength which is it low to the ground and can rebuild really quickly. So run some Wraths.
The deck could easily be modified to support some Planar Collapses. I should probably field at least 1 given that we can tutor for it with Enlightened Tutor which (virtually) enables us to play 5 Wraths while only consuming a single deck slot.
Give the deck some reach so that it does not run out of steam if someone plays a board or weenie wipe. Skull clamp would be awesome if your ban / restricted list allows it. Unfortunately there is not much else in white that i can think of to give you draw.
Wall of Omens + bounce creatures has been my primary source of card draw in testing. It's not ideal but it can do some work at times.
Assuming no banned/restricted list you can obviously build some very broken decks, but yes, Clamp is the bomb.
Assuming that you can afford a real manabase then Impact Tremors and Purphoros, God of the Forge are amazing finishers to have on hand. They just end the game is such a short timeframe.
It just feels like a deck that has no interaction with the rest of the board. You will probably get the tokens to take down 1 or 2 players while they build but the other 2 - 3 players will easily roll you.
I don't see why that would be the case. When this deck is doing what it's supposed to do it's controverting 100% of its excess mana into at least two 1/1s. I'm not saying that that's Vintage playable but when I look at the decks posted on these forums I rarely see people fielding degenerate combo crap. Most people are employing fair creatures, fair removal, fair spells, etc. This deck, with 4 lands in play, it producing eight power a turn. Eight. That's not fair. Relative to what I see most people doing that isn't a kingmaker strategy that'll kill one player then lose to the other two.
I like the concept. I agree with most posters that the big issues would seem to be getting enough damage through and keeping your board in place.
I don't understand why everyone seems to think that this deck is vulnerable to mass removal. Who gives a damn if the board gets Wrathed when you're producing 8-10 creatures a turn? If a lose my stuff, no big deal, I'll make more. If people play blockers I'll just keep building up my army until I can OTK the field and/or make alpha strikes attack with blocker backup. I couldn't care less if people try to fight me on a fair creature-based + removal axis. That's what I want them to be doing.
Who gives a damn if the board gets Wrathed when you're producing 8-10 creatures a turn? If a lose my stuff, no big deal, I'll make more.
Plus your engine for creating tokens is totally card-neutral, similar to Thopter-Sword. A wrath is a lot more likely to hurt your opponents than you since it will likely cost them some investment of cards.
Who gives a damn if the board gets Wrathed when you're producing 8-10 creatures a turn? If a lose my stuff, no big deal, I'll make more.
Plus your engine for creating tokens is totally card-neutral, similar to Thopter-Sword. A wrath is a lot more likely to hurt your opponents than you since it will likely cost them some investment of cards.
Exactly. With Oketra's Monument in play Kor Skyfisher reads "pay 1 put a 1/1 into play" and since I'm not a silly goose I'm never going to end my turn with the Skyfisher still in play. If someone then casts Wrath of God I lose zero actual cards. Rather, I just go back to making more tokens until they run out of answers at which point I win. This is why I don't understand why people keep telling me that I need answers to Wraths. I really, really, really don't because my "answers" to Wraths is the combo itself.
"People have spot removal." Ok, sure, they have to kill every Whitemane Lion, Kor Skyfisher and Stonecloaker that I draw with spot removal. If they can do that and clear my board and kill my engines then I lose. How is that surprising? Someone feel free to name me a deck that doesn't lose when all of its adversaries spend all of their resources killing/countering every spell that it plays. No deck passes that test and this build isn't any different.
I think the criticism that the deck is weak to removal is more so geared toward your artifacts being destroyed, which is a fair criticism. The deck has a difficult time winning without its engine, but you have reduced the effectiveness of that kind of removal with Treasure Hunter.
In its current state, I think the deck's biggest weakness is it's inability to really interact with opponents who are not using the combat step, like more degenerate combo decks. This isn't the Boros version, you aren't winning on turn six. Therefore, you have to grind your opponent which is difficult if your opponents engine is better than yours. Like my Conjurer's Closet deck, it isn't difficult to play a closet, play Sylvan Primordial then blink it every turn. This deck can't deal with that type of value, so the deck does need a few cards to handle better engines.
I think the criticism that the deck is weak to removal is more so geared toward your artifacts being destroyed, which is a fair criticism. The deck has a difficult time winning without its engine, but you have reduced the effectiveness of that kind of removal with Treasure Hunter.
It's also important to note that excess bounce creatures can be used to recur Treasure Hunter which further reduces the effectiveness of Artifact removal. This deck could obviously field even more recursion but in an unknown meta I probably wouldn't field more than 4-6.
In its current state, I think the deck's biggest weakness is it's inability to really interact with opponents who are not using the combat step, like more degenerate combo decks.
Which is the same weakness shared by every other deck posted in this forum. Yet when I post my turn 2 Waste Not brews I get criticized for posting something that's "far too powerful" and that "no one would actually play." I feel like I'm being held to an unrealistic standard because from where I'm sitting I can't win.
Therefore, you have to grind your opponent which is difficult if your opponents engine is better than yours. Like my Conjurer's Closet deck, it isn't difficult to play a closet, play Sylvan Primordial then blink it every turn. This deck can't deal with that type of value, so the deck does need a few cards to handle better engines.
But the advantage of my deck is that mine comes online faster and that my deck can cast creatures on turns 2 and 4 to block for me. Wall of Omens isn't easy to beat past and come turn 4 my board is going to be flooded. I don't want to this to become "my deck vs yours" because I find those types of exercises to be rather pointless but it's fair for me to argue that my deck is almost always casting a blocker on turn 2 and subsequently flooding the board on turn 4 which means that I pressure combo decks, block aggro decks, swarm Control decks, etc.
By the way, let it be known that I'm not trying to optimize this deck to be 100%. Otherwise you bet your boots you'd see things like Recruiter of the Guard and other expensive nonsense. This deck's appeal, to me, is that it's free outside of Enlightened Tutor. If you've ever wanted to invest them (the card is bonkers) this the best opportunity that you'll ever have because nothing in the deck costs actual money. You can even build it without E.Tutors and splash Blue for Trophy Mage or whatever to further reduce the cost. That is, I'm not trying to build the best deck of all time. Rather, I'm trying to showcase how you can build an extremely powerful deck on the cheap. In monowhite. If someone else can post a monowhite deck that doesn't go infinite, costs less money, follows the Legacy B&R list, etc. and still performs as well as this one I'd love to see it. Legitimately. I'm always looking out for new ways to build powerful White/Red decks on the cheap. Like I just think that this deck is insane given how much it actually costs.
SFM + B.Skull is too expensive. If I wanted to optimize the deck it'd have a Recruiter of the Guard package but I'm trying to keep the list as budget-friendly as possible without killing its consistency and power-level.
Skullclamp is oppressive and if you're allowed to field it then there's virtually no reason to run fewer than 4. Sol Ring same idea. If you're allowed to field any card in any quantity then God bless but at that point you may s well play a turn 1-2 combo deck because the deck that I post aren't designed to compete with 4x Sol Ring, 4 Tinker, 4x Windfall, etc. builds. Just Flash in a Protean Hulk on the first player's upkeep with Force of Will/Misdirection backup in order to win on "turn 0" and call it a day.
I'd rather field Intangible Virtue. I do realize that Oketra's duders already have Vigilance but Genesis Chamber's don't and they often represent 50%+ of your army.
I don't understand why everyone seems to think that this deck is vulnerable to mass removal. Who gives a damn if the board gets Wrathed when you're producing 8-10 creatures a turn? If a lose my stuff, no big deal, I'll make more. If people play blockers I'll just keep building up my army until I can OTK the field and/or make alpha strikes attack with blocker backup. I couldn't care less if people try to fight me on a fair creature-based + removal axis. That's what I want them to be doing.
This. Really, about the only things that are going to stop this deck dead in its tracks are blanket -1/-1 effects like Night of Souls's Betrayal and Engineered Plague, or continuous artifact removal like Molder Slug... none of which is currently being run in my meta, sooo....
Green can also do some fun stuff on a splash with Glare of Subdual and/or Cryptolith Rite. The Rite doesn't quite go infinite (like Earthcraft could) but it does turn your creature growth into a geometric rate rather than a linear one. You can always just play one and grab it with your Enlightened Tutor once it would become actively good. Glare also lets you turn off your Genesis Chamber for everyone else, which may actually be significant.
EDIT: Sky Hussar may be a decent option for card draw. The Forecast ability never requires you to actually cast the card or spend any mana (so it works in the mono-white version), and each copy in your hand is an extra draw on your upkeep. The draw power isn't bonkers or anything but all it's costing you is a couple deck slots. The fact that it requires so little investment might make it worth testing.
New crop mate exert guy that fetches 2 cmc creatures to field from grave is fun with a selfless spririt. Especially if you can make him vigilant for cheap. Then you just have a selfless spirit every combat phase to sac out and make the field indestructible.
EDIT: Sky Hussar may be a decent option for card draw. The Forecast ability never requires you to actually cast the card or spend any mana (so it works in the mono-white version), and each copy in your hand is an extra draw on your upkeep. The draw power isn't bonkers or anything but all it's costing you is a couple deck slots. The fact that it requires so little investment might make it worth testing.
I really liked the deck. In search of the cards ... I found the majority. but this: Grasp of Fate
I can not find it. Which card can you replace?
It's a singleton that you can tutor up with Enlightened Tutor if needed. Assuming that you need a replacement I would probably field something like a second copy of Kor Sanctifiers. Serenity is obviously no bueno and "Oblivion Rings" are far too weak so your best bet is likely going to be with a creature. That being said you could basically field anything in that slot, including more win conditions/buff spells such as Intangible Virtue.
It's a singleton that you can tutor up with Enlightened Tutor if needed. Assuming that you need a replacement I would probably field something like a second copy of Kor Sanctifiers. Serenity is obviously no bueno and "Oblivion Rings" are far too weak so your best bet is likely going to be with a creature. That being said you could basically field anything in that slot, including more win conditions/buff spells such as Intangible Virtue.
Agree. Add another copy of: kor sanctifiers With the group where I play they use a lot of fittings and artifacts. Would be beneficial to me
One thing I've noticed goldfishing this deck is that going too deep on the Enchantment/Artifact singletons under the reasoning that with 4x Enlightened Tutor you'll be playing 5 "effective copies" usually ends up with not being able to obtain them when really needed. The first tutor grabs either a Genesis Chamber or Oketra's Monument in the majority of games, and while drawing a second copy usually happens eventually, it's not something that can be counted on. Adding extra copies of meta-relevant answers is probably a good idea if you know you'll need them consistently.
EDIT: This is by far my favorite deck that's come out of Amonkhet so far by the way. I love the simplicity of the engine and how you can add so many different finishers to adapt the deck on a budget. Even staunch beginners can pick it up and do extremely well with it.
One thing I've noticed goldfishing this deck is that going too deep on the Enchantment/Artifact singletons under the reasoning that with 4x Enlightened Tutor you'll be playing 5 "effective copies" usually ends up with not being able to obtain them when really needed.
Oh I realize that, but it's not supposed to be a Control deck or anything. The premise of this archetype has to be "a flood of 1/1s can consistently win games of Magic for me" and if at any point that stops being the case then you're playing the wrong deck. Period. This list does one thing extremely well and extremely consistently but it's basically never going to have a fallback plan for when things go horribly awry. I still think that it's correct to play a small number of silver-bullet answers in your 4x E.Tutor list but I'm under no illusion that their average use-case is anything beyond "tutor for Chamber/Monument."
For what it's worth and as I've referenced many times in this thread Recruiter of the Guard is bay far and away the best addition to the deck if you've got some spare cash lying around because the ability to consistently tutor for silver-bullet answers is extremely powerful when your list has 4x Whitemane Lion, 4x Kor Skyfisher and 2x Stonecloaker to reuse them. Moreover, unlike Enlightened Tutor that card isn't forced to tutor for multiple key combo pieces first which means that it's free to grab things like Treasure Hunter and Kor Sanctifiers as needed. Clearly you'd have to run something other than the Sanctifiers but you get the idea.
It's definitely better if you can afford to field a version that doesn't have any ETBT lands.
Good call.
Yes. Fiend Hunter same idea.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
I could certainly envision scenarios where it'd be a total house but ultimately it's an extremely unreliable threat that's utterly irrelevant when things aren't going my way. Assuming that I'm just nut drawing turn 2 Genesis Chamber, turn 3 Monument, turn 4 Wall of Omens + Lion/Skyfisher, etc. then sure, I could see it doing it work, but I just hate how weak it feels when I'm being hated out with removal/permission etc. because those are the scenarios that I'm trying to plan for as much as possible. This deck is already stellar at playing the "let's all do our thing" game so my primary concern is making room for cards and effects that help me when everyone and their mother is trying to disrupt my synergies.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
I feel that to play this deck you need to either
It just feels like a deck that has no interaction with the rest of the board. You will probably get the tokens to take down 1 or 2 players while they build but the other 2 - 3 players will easily roll you.
You're absolutely correct in your evaluation. The Monowhite version of the deck is capable of strong games, but only if your opponents stumble in the early game or fail to find removal. That being said, cards like Treasure Hunter help provide resiliency.
A Wrath heavy version would be interesting and something worth testing. For that build, it might be worth testing Trading Post as a way to use your Mrys to draw cards and reclaim binned combo pieces.
Pride has already said that the strongest version of the deck so far is the Boros one. The reason for that being, it provides reach through Impact Tremors and Purphoros, God of the Forge. It doesn't really matter what your opponents do when you can hit everyone for 15 on turn 5. If you're building the Boros version I would say to cut Norin the Wary for artifact and enchantment removal. Fitting in Boros Charm also adds resilience.
Alternatively, a Selesnya version gives us access to Aura Shards at the expense of the burn cards. Beastmaster Ascension could make up for the lack of that though.
It seemed like it would be a really bad draw when things aren't going my way. After all, it also causes cards like Whitemane Lion to trigger twice which is no bueno.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Considerations:
Fortify - actually can provide a nice defensive boost if needed in a pinch
Brave the Elements (or Akroma's Blessing if you want the myr too) - super nice for alpha strikes, and also can be defensive
Leonin Sun Standard - early, this makes combat much more difficult for your opponents, and mid to late it threatens overruns every turn
Rootborn Defenses - premium anti-wrath in a tokens deck
Selfless Spirit - ditto, plus this is a creature. minus that your opponents can see it and play around it
The deck could easily be modified to support some Planar Collapses. I should probably field at least 1 given that we can tutor for it with Enlightened Tutor which (virtually) enables us to play 5 Wraths while only consuming a single deck slot.
Wall of Omens + bounce creatures has been my primary source of card draw in testing. It's not ideal but it can do some work at times.
Assuming no banned/restricted list you can obviously build some very broken decks, but yes, Clamp is the bomb.
Assuming that you can afford a real manabase then Impact Tremors and Purphoros, God of the Forge are amazing finishers to have on hand. They just end the game is such a short timeframe.
I was testing Mentor of the Meek but it felt meh. Bygone Bishop same thing.
The deck can easily support things like Leonin Relic-Warder, Grasp of Fate and Kor Sanctifiers if those kinds of cards are a serious concern.
I don't see why that would be the case. When this deck is doing what it's supposed to do it's controverting 100% of its excess mana into at least two 1/1s. I'm not saying that that's Vintage playable but when I look at the decks posted on these forums I rarely see people fielding degenerate combo crap. Most people are employing fair creatures, fair removal, fair spells, etc. This deck, with 4 lands in play, it producing eight power a turn. Eight. That's not fair. Relative to what I see most people doing that isn't a kingmaker strategy that'll kill one player then lose to the other two.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
I don't understand why everyone seems to think that this deck is vulnerable to mass removal. Who gives a damn if the board gets Wrathed when you're producing 8-10 creatures a turn? If a lose my stuff, no big deal, I'll make more. If people play blockers I'll just keep building up my army until I can OTK the field and/or make alpha strikes attack with blocker backup. I couldn't care less if people try to fight me on a fair creature-based + removal axis. That's what I want them to be doing.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Plus your engine for creating tokens is totally card-neutral, similar to Thopter-Sword. A wrath is a lot more likely to hurt your opponents than you since it will likely cost them some investment of cards.
Exactly. With Oketra's Monument in play Kor Skyfisher reads "pay 1 put a 1/1 into play" and since I'm not a silly goose I'm never going to end my turn with the Skyfisher still in play. If someone then casts Wrath of God I lose zero actual cards. Rather, I just go back to making more tokens until they run out of answers at which point I win. This is why I don't understand why people keep telling me that I need answers to Wraths. I really, really, really don't because my "answers" to Wraths is the combo itself.
"People have spot removal." Ok, sure, they have to kill every Whitemane Lion, Kor Skyfisher and Stonecloaker that I draw with spot removal. If they can do that and clear my board and kill my engines then I lose. How is that surprising? Someone feel free to name me a deck that doesn't lose when all of its adversaries spend all of their resources killing/countering every spell that it plays. No deck passes that test and this build isn't any different.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
In its current state, I think the deck's biggest weakness is it's inability to really interact with opponents who are not using the combat step, like more degenerate combo decks. This isn't the Boros version, you aren't winning on turn six. Therefore, you have to grind your opponent which is difficult if your opponents engine is better than yours. Like my Conjurer's Closet deck, it isn't difficult to play a closet, play Sylvan Primordial then blink it every turn. This deck can't deal with that type of value, so the deck does need a few cards to handle better engines.
It's also important to note that excess bounce creatures can be used to recur Treasure Hunter which further reduces the effectiveness of Artifact removal. This deck could obviously field even more recursion but in an unknown meta I probably wouldn't field more than 4-6.
Which is the same weakness shared by every other deck posted in this forum. Yet when I post my turn 2 Waste Not brews I get criticized for posting something that's "far too powerful" and that "no one would actually play." I feel like I'm being held to an unrealistic standard because from where I'm sitting I can't win.
But the advantage of my deck is that mine comes online faster and that my deck can cast creatures on turns 2 and 4 to block for me. Wall of Omens isn't easy to beat past and come turn 4 my board is going to be flooded. I don't want to this to become "my deck vs yours" because I find those types of exercises to be rather pointless but it's fair for me to argue that my deck is almost always casting a blocker on turn 2 and subsequently flooding the board on turn 4 which means that I pressure combo decks, block aggro decks, swarm Control decks, etc.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
SFM + B.Skull is too expensive. If I wanted to optimize the deck it'd have a Recruiter of the Guard package but I'm trying to keep the list as budget-friendly as possible without killing its consistency and power-level.
Skullclamp is oppressive and if you're allowed to field it then there's virtually no reason to run fewer than 4. Sol Ring same idea. If you're allowed to field any card in any quantity then God bless but at that point you may s well play a turn 1-2 combo deck because the deck that I post aren't designed to compete with 4x Sol Ring, 4 Tinker, 4x Windfall, etc. builds. Just Flash in a Protean Hulk on the first player's upkeep with Force of Will/Misdirection backup in order to win on "turn 0" and call it a day.
I'd rather field Intangible Virtue. I do realize that Oketra's duders already have Vigilance but Genesis Chamber's don't and they often represent 50%+ of your army.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
This. Really, about the only things that are going to stop this deck dead in its tracks are blanket -1/-1 effects like Night of Souls's Betrayal and Engineered Plague, or continuous artifact removal like Molder Slug... none of which is currently being run in my meta, sooo....
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EDIT: Sky Hussar may be a decent option for card draw. The Forecast ability never requires you to actually cast the card or spend any mana (so it works in the mono-white version), and each copy in your hand is an extra draw on your upkeep. The draw power isn't bonkers or anything but all it's costing you is a couple deck slots. The fact that it requires so little investment might make it worth testing.
This is definitely worth testing.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
I really liked the deck. In search of the cards ... I found the majority. but this: Grasp of Fate
I can not find it. Which card can you replace?
It's a singleton that you can tutor up with Enlightened Tutor if needed. Assuming that you need a replacement I would probably field something like a second copy of Kor Sanctifiers. Serenity is obviously no bueno and "Oblivion Rings" are far too weak so your best bet is likely going to be with a creature. That being said you could basically field anything in that slot, including more win conditions/buff spells such as Intangible Virtue.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Agree. Add another copy of: kor sanctifiers With the group where I play they use a lot of fittings and artifacts. Would be beneficial to me
I am going to try : Intangible Virtue
EDIT: This is by far my favorite deck that's come out of Amonkhet so far by the way. I love the simplicity of the engine and how you can add so many different finishers to adapt the deck on a budget. Even staunch beginners can pick it up and do extremely well with it.
Oh I realize that, but it's not supposed to be a Control deck or anything. The premise of this archetype has to be "a flood of 1/1s can consistently win games of Magic for me" and if at any point that stops being the case then you're playing the wrong deck. Period. This list does one thing extremely well and extremely consistently but it's basically never going to have a fallback plan for when things go horribly awry. I still think that it's correct to play a small number of silver-bullet answers in your 4x E.Tutor list but I'm under no illusion that their average use-case is anything beyond "tutor for Chamber/Monument."
For what it's worth and as I've referenced many times in this thread Recruiter of the Guard is bay far and away the best addition to the deck if you've got some spare cash lying around because the ability to consistently tutor for silver-bullet answers is extremely powerful when your list has 4x Whitemane Lion, 4x Kor Skyfisher and 2x Stonecloaker to reuse them. Moreover, unlike Enlightened Tutor that card isn't forced to tutor for multiple key combo pieces first which means that it's free to grab things like Treasure Hunter and Kor Sanctifiers as needed. Clearly you'd have to run something other than the Sanctifiers but you get the idea.
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