Carrion Feeder + Gravecrawler is an awesome sacrifice engine that fuels things like Zulaport Cutthroat, Wayward Servant, Plague Belcher, Vengeful Dead, etc. while also triggering Bontu's Monument. After all, Gravecrawler is "cast" from the graveyard which is all that the card cares about. Clearly you don't get a cost reduction, you still have to pay B, but the drain adds up so quickly that you don't need many activations to clear the table out. Moreover, Bontu's Monument + Grave Defiler is a nice little combo that legitimately rewards you for fielding it over a simple mana rock. Grave Defiler is helpful for giving the deck game against Control strategies while also helping you assemble your Carrion Crawler combo more consistently. Beyond that Gravecrawler is particularly insane in Plague Belcher decks since you really want the 5/4 to come down to start clogging up the board.
If I wanted the deck to go infinite I could easily add Phyrexian Altar since that + Carrion Feeder + Gravecrawler is a quick and easy OTK with basically any of the drain engines listed. The deck could also play a more Controlling games with things like Fleshbag Marauder, Grave Pact and Dictate of Erebos that further abuse the Carrion Crawler combo. Lastly, virtually all of the drain engines pair amazing well with Tombstone Stairwell so that could easily be another way to tune the deck. That card is utterly bonkers with Vengeful Dead who triggers off of "each other" zombie dying and not just your own. Given that Tombstone Stairwell produces zombies for "each player" on "each upkeep" that often means that you're literally killing the entire table in one circuit should you manage to assemble that combo.
Had you considered diregraf colossus to amplify the plan? It provides extra Wayward Servant triggers and sacrificial fodder. It doesn't trigger the monument, but wouldn't it be the better of the two cards since it basically doubles the efficacy of all of the other pieces (and is a zombie for grave defiler purposes)?
Had you considered diregraf colossus to amplify the plan? It provides extra Wayward Servant triggers and sacrificial fodder. It doesn't trigger the monument, but wouldn't it be the better of the two cards since it basically doubles the efficacy of all of the other pieces (and is a zombie for grave defiler purposes)?
EDIT: Oh, if you're telling me to swap a 2 drop for a 3 drop I don't think that I can get behind that unless I make room for 4x Dark Ritual. When my deck has 4x Gray Merchant of Asphodel I want to curve 1-2-3-4 every game no questions asked so I'm not cutting a 2 drop for the 24th 3 drop. Even if the card is "better" it's irrelevant because casting anything on turn 2 and anything on turn 3 is better than skipping 2 and having a whack of 3s stuck in your hand for turns 3-5. That's why I would only consider making that swap if my deck looked something like:
I was actually suggesting dropping the monument entirely in favor of the colossus since the monument only supports the casting part of the engine whereas the colossus also supports the dying part by providing fodder. I know the deck is named after Bontu's Monument and you most likely just wanted to test the new tech, but I have a feeling that diregraf colossus will be the better of the two in the archtype.
I was actually suggesting dropping the monument entirely in favor of the colossus since the monument only supports the casting part of the engine whereas the colossus also supports the dying part by providing fodder. I know the deck is named after Bontu's Monument and you most likely just wanted to test the new tech, but I have a feeling that diregraf colossus will be the better of the two in the archtype.
Oh fair. Bontu's Monument is easily the second-worst card in the deck (the worst being Bontu himself) and I wouldn't fault anyone for cutting both of them. That being said I'm not going to start a thread called "Bontu's Zombies" and then cut all of the Bontu cards.
Although it is leagues beneath the power of Vengeful Dead and his brood, Shepherd of Rot will always be a personal favorite of mine that I would include potentially trading it out for Monument. Although the synergy between Gravecrawler and Monument is probably better.
Although it is leagues beneath the power of Vengeful Dead and his brood, Shepherd of Rot will always be a personal favorite of mine that I would include potentially trading it out for Monument. Although the synergy between Gravecrawler and Monument is probably better.
I would probably replace the cutthroat with shepherd to keep it all zombies if I wanted to include him. He can eat through life totals quickly even without the 'combo'.
Although it is leagues beneath the power of Vengeful Dead and his brood, Shepherd of Rot will always be a personal favorite of mine that I would include potentially trading it out for Monument. Although the synergy between Gravecrawler and Monument is probably better.
I would probably replace the cutthroat with shepherd to keep it all zombies if I wanted to include him. He can eat through life totals quickly even without the 'combo'.
That would be a very reasonable substitution. Seems like a good swap given that this is a Grave Defiler deck. May as well eek out as much value as possible when you're playing with those kinds of cards.
I suspect its an odd game if you ever actually activate Bontu the Glorified. I can see activating it to squeak out a last bit of global damage at the end of the game, but honestly, more likely you will have already drained everyone by then and/or Gray merchant of asphodel will have reared it's head and won you the game.
I would like to try Bontu's Monument in a different shell, not because the card is trash, but b/c Zombies have better options. Vampires tribal would probably work, or black good stuff deck.
Did you ever end up playing this deck, Prid3? If so, how did it do?
Nah, not this exact list. I don't bother with the Bontu cards since they're not especially powerful. While I have been relatively impressed with the drain-based zombie archetype overall I'd be lying if I said that it was particularly interesting to play with or against. All you're doing is jamming dudes on curve and kinda hoping to get there with your drain spells and effects. You don't usually have much in the way of interaction so games tend to feel one-sided (win or lose) and there's very little replay value if you're looking to actually make decisions.
I ran Bontus with generic mass sac and Zulaport Cutthroat yesterday and found it played a relatively fair and fun game of Magic while still feeling powerful and flexible. I can post a list when I get back home. Gary is basically unwelcome in my playgroup now, so I needed something that could work well enough without.
I ran Bontus with generic mass sac and Zulaport Cutthroat yesterday and found it played a relatively fair and fun game of Magic while still feeling powerful and flexible. I can post a list when I get back home. Gary is basically unwelcome in my playgroup now, so I needed something that could work well enough without.
I look forward to your complete list with eagerness.
Play a few days deck suggested by prid3. But I would like to know your opinions and what letters you use.
Demonic Tutor is amazing in any deck if your group will allow it. Aether Vial is awful here. If you want to just go all-in on the combo, and your group is fine with 3x Demonic Tutor, why not play Demonic Consultation to assemble the combo by turn 3 virtually 100% of the time?
Demonic Tutor is amazing in any deck if your group will allow it. Aether Vial is awful here. If you want to just go all-in on the combo, and your group is fine with 3x Demonic Tutor, why not play Demonic Consultation to assemble the combo by turn 3 virtually 100% of the time?
seem right. I'm going to try that and then I'll talk about my experience. Thank you thomeyis
But I'm missing 4 more creatures or what can I add in those missing?
10x Swamp
4x Godless Shrine
4x Tainted Field
4x Orzhov Guildgate
2x Unholy Grotto
4x Carrion Feeder
4x Gravecrawler
4x Wayward Servant
4x Shepherd of Rot
4x Plague Belcher
1x Bontu the Glorified
4x Vengeful Dead
4x Grave Defiler
4x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
3x Bontu's Monument
Carrion Feeder + Gravecrawler is an awesome sacrifice engine that fuels things like Zulaport Cutthroat, Wayward Servant, Plague Belcher, Vengeful Dead, etc. while also triggering Bontu's Monument. After all, Gravecrawler is "cast" from the graveyard which is all that the card cares about. Clearly you don't get a cost reduction, you still have to pay B, but the drain adds up so quickly that you don't need many activations to clear the table out. Moreover, Bontu's Monument + Grave Defiler is a nice little combo that legitimately rewards you for fielding it over a simple mana rock. Grave Defiler is helpful for giving the deck game against Control strategies while also helping you assemble your Carrion Crawler combo more consistently. Beyond that Gravecrawler is particularly insane in Plague Belcher decks since you really want the 5/4 to come down to start clogging up the board.
If I wanted the deck to go infinite I could easily add Phyrexian Altar since that + Carrion Feeder + Gravecrawler is a quick and easy OTK with basically any of the drain engines listed. The deck could also play a more Controlling games with things like Fleshbag Marauder, Grave Pact and Dictate of Erebos that further abuse the Carrion Crawler combo. Lastly, virtually all of the drain engines pair amazing well with Tombstone Stairwell so that could easily be another way to tune the deck. That card is utterly bonkers with Vengeful Dead who triggers off of "each other" zombie dying and not just your own. Given that Tombstone Stairwell produces zombies for "each player" on "each upkeep" that often means that you're literally killing the entire table in one circuit should you manage to assemble that combo.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Between Bontu's Monument, Fleshbag Marauder, Plague Belcher, Toxic Deluge, Phyrexian Arena, Recurring Nightmare, etc. etc. etc. what 3 drop am I ever cutting for this card? I don't disagree with anything that you're saying but I basically consider Plague Belcher to be a must-have 4-of and once you start thinking like that then suddenly you have to run 4x Wayward Servant, 4x Vengeful Dead and 4x Gray Merchant of Asphodel. Now your Zombie deck has 16 cards spoken for and once you add 22-24 lands that's ~40 cards down the drain. Does Diregraf Colossus really make the cut in the last 20? It's tough.
EDIT: Oh, if you're telling me to swap a 2 drop for a 3 drop I don't think that I can get behind that unless I make room for 4x Dark Ritual. When my deck has 4x Gray Merchant of Asphodel I want to curve 1-2-3-4 every game no questions asked so I'm not cutting a 2 drop for the 24th 3 drop. Even if the card is "better" it's irrelevant because casting anything on turn 2 and anything on turn 3 is better than skipping 2 and having a whack of 3s stuck in your hand for turns 3-5. That's why I would only consider making that swap if my deck looked something like:
20x Swamp
2x Leechridden Swamp
2x Unholy Grotto
Creatures (29)
4x Carrion Feeder
4x Gravecrawler
4x Zulaport Cutthroat
4x Plague Belcher
4x Diregraf Colossus
1x Bontu the Glorified
4x Vengeful Dead
4x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4x Dark Ritual
3x Bontu's Monument
Something close to this basically.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Oh fair. Bontu's Monument is easily the second-worst card in the deck (the worst being Bontu himself) and I wouldn't fault anyone for cutting both of them. That being said I'm not going to start a thread called "Bontu's Zombies" and then cut all of the Bontu cards.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
That would be a very reasonable substitution. Seems like a good swap given that this is a Grave Defiler deck. May as well eek out as much value as possible when you're playing with those kinds of cards.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
For the record, as you stated above, Tombstone Stairwell for the abusive win. It's leagues better and only a couple of dollars to buy.
That's actually a really good point and one that I hadn't even considered.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
I would like to try Bontu's Monument in a different shell, not because the card is trash, but b/c Zombies have better options. Vampires tribal would probably work, or black good stuff deck.
Nah, not this exact list. I don't bother with the Bontu cards since they're not especially powerful. While I have been relatively impressed with the drain-based zombie archetype overall I'd be lying if I said that it was particularly interesting to play with or against. All you're doing is jamming dudes on curve and kinda hoping to get there with your drain spells and effects. You don't usually have much in the way of interaction so games tend to feel one-sided (win or lose) and there's very little replay value if you're looking to actually make decisions.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
I look forward to your complete list with eagerness.
Play a few days deck suggested by prid3. But I would like to know your opinions and what letters you use.
regards
8x Swamp
4x Godless Shrine
4x Marsh Flats
4x Tainted Field
4x Carrion Feeder
4x Zulaport Cutthroat
4x Wayward Servant
4x Plague Belcher
4x Gravecrawler
4x Fleshbag Marauder
3x dark ritual
4x Phyrexian Altar
3x Demonic tutor
2x Aether Vial
Missing cards to complete. But what I want is to have the infinite combo as soon as possible: Phyrexian Altar + Wayward Servant or Zulaport Cutthroat + Gravecrawler
But I do not know if the cards: dark ritual - Demonic tutor Aether Vial Be of use
I accept your advice.
Greetings and thanks in advance
seem right. I'm going to try that and then I'll talk about my experience. Thank you thomeyis
But I'm missing 4 more creatures or what can I add in those missing?
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
Interesting..I'll add it to my list. Thank you :Thijs1301
If anyone has more tips or suggestions. They are welcome
Your build is screaming for it and it makes wins super easy.
Are we stuck in an infinite loop O.O?
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Nope, I was trying to steer the other builders in the same direction I suggested to you.
For this kind of build and in this particular tribe, Tombstone Stairwell is the real deal but you already know this