I want to build a deck to abise Deadeye Navigator but I don't want to infi combo with Palinchron, I want to try and keep the deck kind of budget, with cards costing $5 or less
I was thinking of u/g for cards like Coiling Oracle, Thragtusk and Asceticism as well as ramp, but I'm not 100% sure if simic is the way I want to go with it. Any ideas are welcome
Simic is definitely the right choice. Aside from what was already listed, Mulldrifter is a great choice for Deadeye abuse, because he can be evoked and then blinked for a draw-4. He's also a card you should be playing anyway. Prime Speaker Zegana is a good 1-2 of to draw yourself a mess of cards. Mystic Snake can lock people out of the game when paired with Deadeye, and Prophet of Kruphix lets you do it every turn. Eventually you'll be flooding out with so many creatures that no one will be able to race. You can win by either Sylvan Primordial-ing all their permanents out of existence or something like Craterhoof Behemoth(I know he's not budget but you really only need one copy). Kamahl, Fist of Krosa might be a decent alternative. If you're playing Thragtusk then you can probably just win by overwhelming everyone with tokens as well. There's a million different ways to build the deck and they're all very effective.
I came in here to say exactly the same thing - Deadeye + J. Random Primordial is combolicious, budget, and one of the most broken things you can get happening on a Multiplayer board.
If you want to lock people out, both Mystic Snake and Draining Whelk are there. Woodfall Primus is a thing, too.
Yes, if you Evoke + blink a Drifter you get to keep him. The combo is sweet :).
Anyways, your deck looks awesome. I would only make a few modifications. First of all, I don't like Worldly Tutor over Green Sun's Zenith. I think that it's basically a strictly worse card. They both serve a similar purpose except one causes card disadvantage and one doesn't. I'm obviously not suggesting that Wordly Tutor doesn't have any advantages over GSZ, it clearly does, but 95% of the time GSZ will be the superior card.
Furthermore, I think that Dense Foliage is better than Asceticism. I really want to land my protection BEFORE casting Prophet of Kruphix, not after. This might seem trivial but I personally believe that it's important. I rarely lose games with this deck when I go turn 3 Foliage into turn 5 Prophet, untap Thragtusk on the same circuit. Oh, I LOVE Thragtusk in Prophet of Kruphix decks for what it's worth. It's the perfect card to follow her up with.
Moreover, I don't like Rampant Growth at all. I would play creatures such as Wood Elves or Yavimaya Elder in its stead. Well, no, that's not exactly true. I would remove 4 Growths, add 2 creature ramp/card advantage spells and 2 more Prophet of Kruphixes.
Otherwise I like your deck a lot. It seems super fun to play!
Well, I picked the tutor because it can search up deadeye where the zenith can't, but I do understand why you prefer the zenith as it is repeatable, and rampant growth will become Sylvan Ranger since it ensures I have land every turn if I bouce it with deadeye, pkus it puts it into my hand in case of land wipes, but I've never had to deal with that, none of the people I've played with have ever used mld.
I also understand the argument for foliage, but what I like about Asceticism is that if things don't go my way, barring mass sac effects or mass -x/-x spells, I can save a few creatures if I can't counter with the mystic snake
And thank you, that means a lot coming from the mutliplayer guide creator, normally I'm actually kind of bad at building for multiplayer
Edit: I put in 3 of the rangers and upped the count of prophets to 3 as a split
Moreover, I don't like Rampant Growth at all. I would play creatures such as Wood Elves or Yavimaya Elder in its stead. Well, no, that's not exactly true. I would remove 4 Groths, add 2 creature ramp/card advantage spells and 2 more Prophet of Kruphixes.
No, not Wood Elves or Yavimaya Elder - you want something with an ETB effect that fetches any old land, so that Deadeye can abuse it.
Elder can't do that. Wood Elves is closer, but is only fetching half the land. The droid we're looking for is Farhaven Elf.
Other than, completely agree, Prid3. I'd rock this deck with the amp turned up to 11.
Well, I picked the tutor because it can search up deadeye where the zenith can't, but I do understand why you prefer the zenith as it is repeatable
Actually, I assign almost 0 value to the recurring nature of the card and bear in mind that I play Cube (i.e. 40 card decks) roughly 90% of the time. Deck "fattening" (I don't know a good word to use here, the act of adding "good draws" to your deck) has no statistical significance. It'll give you an extra "good draw" once every 80 games or so. That's irrelevant. What I like about the card is that it's a Wordly Tutor that doesn't cause card disadvantage. They both accomplish similar goals except WT is a 1-for-2. Unless you REALLY need to tutor for Deadeye every game (which I personally don't believe that you do) I would roll with the straight 1-for-1.
I also understand the argument for foliage, but what I like about Asceticism is that if things don't go my way, barring mass sac effects or mass -x/-x spells, I can save a few creatures if I can't counter with the mystic snake
The way I see it is that Dense Foliage is a card that helps to prevent things from going to ***** in the first place which means that you won't need to rely on "backup plans" nearly as much. I won't twist your arm on this one, both cards are fine, but I did want to plug the card that I personally use because I've playtested them both extensively and I've found the Foliage to be vastly superior in practice. In general if 2 cards do roughly the same thing the cheaper one will almost always be better.
Moreover, I don't like Rampant Growth at all. I would play creatures such as Wood Elves or Yavimaya Elder in its stead. Well, no, that's not exactly true. I would remove 4 Groths, add 2 creature ramp/card advantage spells and 2 more Prophet of Kruphixes.
No, not Wood Elves or Yavimaya Elder - you want something with an ETB effect that fetches any old land, so that Deadeye can abuse it.
Elder can't do that. Wood Elves is closer, but is only fetching half the land. The droid we're looking for is Farhaven Elf.
Other than, completely agree, Prid3. I'd rock this deck with the amp turned up to 11.
Actually I basically never bounce these kinds of cards anyways with this kind of deck so that doesn't really concern me. The reason why I like Yavimaya Elder is because it helps you get to 7 lands, is good against aggro and it's card draw. This is literally the only UG deck that I've ever built and played myself in MP and I've just never had to bother bouncing land fetchers. I've always had a Drifter, Primordiak, Thragtusk, etc. to work with so I don't feel as though the deck needs to be composed entirely of ETB trigger critters. You can play good cards like Courser of Kruphix and Oracle of Mul Daya because you just plain need consistent early land drops lands more than you need midgame bounce targets.
Well I need to thank you and cadaverousbloom for the kind words, and I see what you mean about the zenith, as the only two creatures it can't get are the drifter and deadeye and thinkig about it, the guys I used to play with (haven't been able to for several months since I got a new job) used spot removal, pretty much no wraths, so the foliage would end up being better, so I should go ahead and hange those since they hit the field quicker and out stuff straight on the field and this is an etb deck
Well I need to thank you and cadaverousbloom for the kind words, and I see what you mean about the zenith, as the only two creatures it can't get are the drifter and deadeye and thinkig about it, the guys I used to play with (haven't been able to for several months since I got a new job) used spot removal, pretty much no wraths, so the foliage would end up being better, so I should go ahead and hange those since they hit the field quicker and out stuff straight on the field and this is an etb deck
That's EXACTLY why I like Dense Foliage :). It comes down on turn 3 or 4 and then on turn 5 it's Prophet, untap Thragtusk and NO ONE can interact with it. From there you just buy time until you start casting Primordials and Deadeyes at which point the game ends. The deck is super fun to play and is so powerful.
Quick question, if I keep blinking primordial, but I don't have forests left in the deck, what hapens then? Because the search effect is not a 'may' ability.
You can fail to find cards that have specific characteristics when tutoring. If you cast oh, say, Demonic Tutor you must take 1 card from your library (insofar as your library doesn't have 0 cards) but with a card like Sylvan Primordial you can simply fail to find Forests and shuffle your deck. Bear in mind that you can fail to find Forests even if you have Forests remaining in your library. That usually won't matter but 0.1% of the time it might and it's an important fact to remember.
The only card that I've had to play against where it MIGHT be useful to not find one is Phyrexian Obliterator, but even then the forests being in my deck still wouldn't be of much use, lol
Actually I basically never bounce these kinds of cards anyways with this kind of deck so that doesn't really concern me. The reason why I like Yavimaya Elder is because it helps you get to 7 lands, is good against aggro and it's card draw. This is literally the only UG deck that I've ever built and played myself in MP and I've just never had to bother bouncing land fetchers. I've always had a Drifter, Primordiak, Thragtusk, etc. to work with so I don't feel as though the deck needs to be composed entirely of ETB trigger critters. You can play good cards like Courser of Kruphix and Oracle of Mul Daya because you just plain need consistent early land drops lands more than you need midgame bounce targets.
Haha! Whereas my line of thinking is that if I've got nothing better to bounce, I might as well be bouncing a Farhaven Elf.
It'd be interesting to test both of those theories out next to each other, but I suspect that one probably comes down to the meta you're suiting the deck up in.
Actually I basically never bounce these kinds of cards anyways with this kind of deck so that doesn't really concern me. The reason why I like Yavimaya Elder is because it helps you get to 7 lands, is good against aggro and it's card draw. This is literally the only UG deck that I've ever built and played myself in MP and I've just never had to bother bouncing land fetchers. I've always had a Drifter, Primordiak, Thragtusk, etc. to work with so I don't feel as though the deck needs to be composed entirely of ETB trigger critters. You can play good cards like Courser of Kruphix and Oracle of Mul Daya because you just plain need consistent early land drops lands more than you need midgame bounce targets.
Haha! Whereas my line of thinking is that if I've got nothing better to bounce, I might as well be bouncing a Farhaven Elf.
It'd be interesting to test both of those theories out next to each other, but I suspect that one probably comes down to the meta you're suiting the deck up in.
Doubt it. I personally think we're splitting hairs and that the deck wouldn't perform significantly better or worse regardless of the 2-3 drop that you elect to run. They're all more-or-less equivalent and so I'd expect every variation to perform identically (i.e. no recognizable differences).
You might be surprised how many times you will pull every forest out of your deck with Sylvan Primordial; it will often result in a win but beware Mind Grind if applicable to your group. I enjoy Progenitor Mimic in these decks as well.
Nobody bonds Deadeye with Hornet Queen or Master of Waves (yes, that works)?
I find these cards incredibly fun to play with. They pump out a huge army in no-time.
Following this up with a Craterhoof Behemoth is surely to end a game, no matter how many lives your opponents may have.
Nobody bonds Deadeye with Hornet Queen or Master of Waves (yes, that works)?
I find these cards incredibly fun to play with. They pump out a huge army in no-time.
It does make sense to have one of these or maybe Avenger of Zendikar in the list.
I was thinking of u/g for cards like Coiling Oracle, Thragtusk and Asceticism as well as ramp, but I'm not 100% sure if simic is the way I want to go with it. Any ideas are welcome
Major thanks to Traprootkami for the signature.
If you want to lock people out, both Mystic Snake and Draining Whelk are there. Woodfall Primus is a thing, too.
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The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
4 Temple of Mystery
4 Hinterland Harbor
3 Simic Guildgate
6 Forest
6 Island
Creatures - 30
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Thragtusk
4 Coiling Oracle
4 Mystic Snake
3 Sylvan Ranger
3 Prophet of Kruphix
2 Mulldrifter
2 Deadeye Navigator
2 Sylvan Primordial
1 Prime Speaker Zegana
1 Kruphix, God of Horizons
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Dense Foliage
2 Beastmaster Ascension
Total = 60
And if I evoke Mulldrifter and I blink it with den, wouldn't it then stay on the battlefield?
Major thanks to Traprootkami for the signature.
Anyways, your deck looks awesome. I would only make a few modifications. First of all, I don't like Worldly Tutor over Green Sun's Zenith. I think that it's basically a strictly worse card. They both serve a similar purpose except one causes card disadvantage and one doesn't. I'm obviously not suggesting that Wordly Tutor doesn't have any advantages over GSZ, it clearly does, but 95% of the time GSZ will be the superior card.
Furthermore, I think that Dense Foliage is better than Asceticism. I really want to land my protection BEFORE casting Prophet of Kruphix, not after. This might seem trivial but I personally believe that it's important. I rarely lose games with this deck when I go turn 3 Foliage into turn 5 Prophet, untap Thragtusk on the same circuit. Oh, I LOVE Thragtusk in Prophet of Kruphix decks for what it's worth. It's the perfect card to follow her up with.
Moreover, I don't like Rampant Growth at all. I would play creatures such as Wood Elves or Yavimaya Elder in its stead. Well, no, that's not exactly true. I would remove 4 Growths, add 2 creature ramp/card advantage spells and 2 more Prophet of Kruphixes.
Otherwise I like your deck a lot. It seems super fun to play!
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I also understand the argument for foliage, but what I like about Asceticism is that if things don't go my way, barring mass sac effects or mass -x/-x spells, I can save a few creatures if I can't counter with the mystic snake
And thank you, that means a lot coming from the mutliplayer guide creator, normally I'm actually kind of bad at building for multiplayer
Edit: I put in 3 of the rangers and upped the count of prophets to 3 as a split
Major thanks to Traprootkami for the signature.
No, not Wood Elves or Yavimaya Elder - you want something with an ETB effect that fetches any old land, so that Deadeye can abuse it.
Elder can't do that. Wood Elves is closer, but is only fetching half the land. The droid we're looking for is Farhaven Elf.
Other than, completely agree, Prid3. I'd rock this deck with the amp turned up to 11.
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Actually, I assign almost 0 value to the recurring nature of the card and bear in mind that I play Cube (i.e. 40 card decks) roughly 90% of the time. Deck "fattening" (I don't know a good word to use here, the act of adding "good draws" to your deck) has no statistical significance. It'll give you an extra "good draw" once every 80 games or so. That's irrelevant. What I like about the card is that it's a Wordly Tutor that doesn't cause card disadvantage. They both accomplish similar goals except WT is a 1-for-2. Unless you REALLY need to tutor for Deadeye every game (which I personally don't believe that you do) I would roll with the straight 1-for-1.
The way I see it is that Dense Foliage is a card that helps to prevent things from going to ***** in the first place which means that you won't need to rely on "backup plans" nearly as much. I won't twist your arm on this one, both cards are fine, but I did want to plug the card that I personally use because I've playtested them both extensively and I've found the Foliage to be vastly superior in practice. In general if 2 cards do roughly the same thing the cheaper one will almost always be better.
Thank you for the kind words :)! Still, you shouldn't be so modest. This is a sweet deck and I would gladly sleeve it up myself.
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Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Actually I basically never bounce these kinds of cards anyways with this kind of deck so that doesn't really concern me. The reason why I like Yavimaya Elder is because it helps you get to 7 lands, is good against aggro and it's card draw. This is literally the only UG deck that I've ever built and played myself in MP and I've just never had to bother bouncing land fetchers. I've always had a Drifter, Primordiak, Thragtusk, etc. to work with so I don't feel as though the deck needs to be composed entirely of ETB trigger critters. You can play good cards like Courser of Kruphix and Oracle of Mul Daya because you just plain need consistent early land drops lands more than you need midgame bounce targets.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Major thanks to Traprootkami for the signature.
That's EXACTLY why I like Dense Foliage :). It comes down on turn 3 or 4 and then on turn 5 it's Prophet, untap Thragtusk and NO ONE can interact with it. From there you just buy time until you start casting Primordials and Deadeyes at which point the game ends. The deck is super fun to play and is so powerful.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Major thanks to Traprootkami for the signature.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Major thanks to Traprootkami for the signature.
Haha! Whereas my line of thinking is that if I've got nothing better to bounce, I might as well be bouncing a Farhaven Elf.
It'd be interesting to test both of those theories out next to each other, but I suspect that one probably comes down to the meta you're suiting the deck up in.
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
PucaTrade with me!
The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
Doubt it. I personally think we're splitting hairs and that the deck wouldn't perform significantly better or worse regardless of the 2-3 drop that you elect to run. They're all more-or-less equivalent and so I'd expect every variation to perform identically (i.e. no recognizable differences).
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Major thanks to Traprootkami for the signature.
Your opponents don't play any cool/powerful creatures themselves :<?
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Major thanks to Traprootkami for the signature.
1x Acidic Slime
1x Bane of Progress
4x Coiling Oracle
1x Craterhoof Behemoth
3x Deadeye Navigator
1x Kruphix, God of Horizons
2x Mulldrifter
3x Mystic Snake
1x Primeval Titan
4x Prophet of Kruphix
4x Sylvan Caryatid
1x Sylvan Primordial
4x Thragtusk
2x Wood Elves
4x Breeding Pool
8x Forest
2x Hinterland Harbor
6x Island
1x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Rogue's Passage
Instant (3)
3x Chord of Calling
1x Rite of Replication
Enchantment (2)
2x Dense Foliage
Big ones or Vesuvan Shapeshifter?
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
I find these cards incredibly fun to play with. They pump out a huge army in no-time.
Following this up with a Craterhoof Behemoth is surely to end a game, no matter how many lives your opponents may have.