I have made a few threads lately about constructing completely new decks, but this time I am looking for thoughts and insight/ideas on one of my staples, white knight tribal (which, coincidentally, was going to merged with another deck, but no longer).
I took out a set of Baneslayer Angels (while I am a fan, and they kick ass, they aren't 'knights') for a set of Metamorphs..running 8 exemplars is never a bad thing, imho. But I am torn....I really, really love Baneslayer's...and the deck does lack some flying defense (other than ***'s).
Lower ***'s to 2 and throw in 2 scroll racks? (works wonders in the Angel tribal deck..)
Has Fiendslayer Paladin been good for you? That card has woefully under-performed from what I've seen.
Scroll Rack should 100% be added. It's draw vs 0 draw.
***s don't seem great but they don't seem bad either. There's a deceptively low amount of synergy in your deck. Like if you don't draw an Exemplar none of your cards have that much synergy. This isn't an Elf deck or anything in that sense. I'd cut back on creatures over Wraths probably... or I'd start by cutting 1 Wrath instead of 2. After all, Wrath with double Exemplar out is often a game win. I don't dislike them at all in your list. Mass Calcify is often overlooked too. You could always run that instead. You do have Tax to support it after all. Like your deck curves out with dudes; you're not Wrathing on turn 4 anyways. If you are then it's because everyone ganged-up on you for no reason or something. I don't hate fielding something like Austere Command or Mass Calcify that might not affect you at all.
For what it's worth I care more about building a good deck than forcing a theme. I play Stinkweed Imp in my zombie decks because I need flying defense and I actively want a full graveyard. It's not a zombie itself (even though it should be, look at it!) but that doesn't bother me because it makes my deck better. Baneslayer Angel would probably make this deck strictly better. It seems silly to me that you wouldn't run her because of a creature type. If this was an Angel of Glory's Rise deck, ok, sure, maybe then it makes less sense to load up on non-humans. Given that this is basically just a good-stuffs Knight deck with Metamorphs (who aren't Knights no matter how you slice it) I don't see any reason why Baneslayer should be excluded.
I do think that it's a shame that a Tax + Emeria Knight deck doesn't have Angel of Glory's Rise but that's probably just because it's such a pet card of mine. She's obviously garbage in your current build and Baneslayer wouldn't help the cause but I just really like that card in Emeria-based White decks.
Has Fiendslayer Paladin been good for you? That card has woefully under-performed from what I've seen.
Scroll Rack should 100% be added. It's draw vs 0 draw.
***s don't seem great but they don't seem bad either. There's a deceptively low amount of synergy in your deck. Like if you don't draw an Exemplar none of your cards have that much synergy. This isn't an Elf deck or anything in that sense. I'd cut back on creatures over Wraths probably... or I'd start by cutting 1 Wrath instead of 2. After all, Wrath with double Exemplar out is often a game win. I don't dislike them at all in your list. Mass Calcify is often overlooked too. You could always run that instead. You do have Tax to support it after all. Like your deck curves out with dudes; you're not Wrathing on turn 4 anyways. If you are then it's because everyone ganged-up on you for no reason or something. I don't hate fielding something like Austere Command or Mass Calcify that might not affect you at all.
For what it's worth I care more about building a good deck than forcing a theme. I play Stinkweed Imp in my zombie decks because I need flying defense and I actively want a full graveyard. It's not a zombie itself (even though it should be, look at it!) but that doesn't bother me because it makes my deck better. Baneslayer Angel would probably make this deck strictly better. It seems silly to me that you wouldn't run her because of a creature type. If this was an Angel of Glory's Rise deck, ok, sure, maybe then it makes less sense to load up on non-humans. Given that this is basically just a good-stuffs Knight deck with Metamorphs (who aren't Knights no matter how you slice it) I don't see any reason why Baneslayer should be excluded.
I do think that it's a shame that a Tax + Emeria Knight deck doesn't have Angel of Glory's Rise but that's probably just because it's such a pet card of mine. She's obviously garbage in your current build and Baneslayer wouldn't help the cause but I just really like that card in Emeria-based White decks.
I get what you are saying - I tend to pigeonhole myself when building around a tribal theme - mostly for theme's sake.
Fiendslayer has actually done pretty well for me - not won the games for me or turned the tide of battle, but he's another meadowgrain, for all intended purposes. Also, there is a LOT of black and red at our table, so that is another tick in his favor. But I could use his spot for something better, I believe. He gets the job done, but already pushing the 3 cmc spot as it is.
However, with that being said, I may end up doing something like this:
Yeah but he doesn't have prot Black/Red, you're aware of that right? He doesn't even protect himself from activated abilities. Ok, sure, he can't be Bolted or Doom Bladed but are people seriously casting those kinds of spells on 3 mana 2/2s? I only ask because so many people don't realize how worthless his "defensive" ability actually is. In practice I think that it's basically trivial. Again though I see a lot of people treat him like he's prot Black + Red (more-or-less) before realizing how bad he actually is. Just wondering.
Why did the Crusaders come out? Cavaliers seemed fine too. Crusader is as insane blocker and once he gets an equipment on him it's lights out. Crusader is also insane with lords. Like Exemplar + Metamorph making a 4/4 Indestructible Crusader smashes people.
Yeah but he doesn't have prot Black/Red, you're aware of that right? He doesn't even protect himself from activated abilities. Ok, sure, he can't be Bolted or Doom Bladed but are people seriously casting those kinds of spells on 3 mana 2/2s? I only ask because so many people don't realize how worthless his "defensive" ability actually is. In practice I think that it's basically trivial. Again though I see a lot of people treat him like he's prot Black + Red (more-or-less) before realizing how bad he actually is. Just wondering.
Why did the Crusaders come out? Cavaliers seemed fine too. Crusader is as insane blocker and once he gets an equipment on him it's lights out.
Yeah, I understand he doesn't have true "pro. B/R", it was just a nice bonus to a first stirking life linker..mostly.
They came out when I was messing around with creature count and other stuffs.
I'd like to run at least 3 Crusaders and 2 Cavaliers - just need to open up 1 extra spot for it - either drop to 23 land or 2 Warhammer is where I am leaning. Land tax helps with land, so 23 is still 'okay' and the same goes for 2 warhammers.
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My biggest problem with him is that, regardless of his abilities, he's still just a 2/2 for 3. First Strike and Life Link don't mean much when people are playing 3/3s and 4/4s. The card has always been awful from what I've seen. /shrug
23 lands is fine in a Tax deck. I'd aggressively mull for one and since you get 2 free cracks at 7 and since dropping to 6 is fine you're pushing like a 75% chance to see a hand with a Tax and a Land. Even if you don't you're still allowed to draw lands in your 23 land deck heh. You also have a lot of early action even if you do "miss" a few times.
My biggest problem with him is that, regardless of his abilities, he's still just a 2/2 for 3. First Strike and Life Link don't mean much when people are playing 3/3s and 4/4s. The card has always been awful from what I've seen. /shrug
23 lands is fine in a Tax deck. I'd aggressively mull for one and since you get 2 free cracks at 7 and since dropping to 6 is fine you're pushing like a 75% chance to see a hand with a Tax and a Land. Even if you don't you're still allowed to draw lands in your 23 land deck heh. You also have a lot of early action even if you do "miss" a few times.
True story, hah.
Fiendslayer does tend to get outpaced, now that you mention in. Maybe it's just been the games that I've fielded him are ones where he was effective? No matter - upgrading his spot is never a thing to fret over, hah.
In hindsight he's probably better when your 1, 2 and 3 drops all have First Strike. His personal statistics matter a lot less when you're building a defensive phalanx with him. Decks looks stronger though. Mass Calcify will be the "big" card to test in my mind. 7 mana is a lot but the effect is very powerful.
In hindsight he's probably better when your 1, 2 and 3 drops all have First Strike. His personal statistics matter a lot less when you're building a defensive phalanx with him. Decks looks stronger though. Mass Calcify will be the "big" card to test in my mind. 7 mana is a lot but the effect is very powerful.
True - I never really attacked with him too much, honestly. That work went to Mirran or Baneslayer.
If Mass Calcify becomes cumbersome, I may swap it back out for *** or A.Command, but I do want to give it a shot and see what happens.
Geddon is very, very good in WW. Easily the best card in the deck. You even have Tax to ensure that you'll have action afterwards. It might not be triggering much after that but you can soldier on in spite of it :P. You don't exactly have the best Geddon deck ever conceived but I mean it could pull you out of some jams. I dunno, that's the kind of card that I would rather build around. I'd want to play 4 or more copies of it and really focus on curving out on turns 1-3. I actually think that Geddons are healthy to play with some % of the time because otherwise it's nothing but Cabal Coffers, Nykthos, Cloudposts, etc. There's basically no reason not to run those kinds of cards in most MP circles otherwise. Your deck is very fair, like you're basically never doing anything overpowered, so having a legitimately unfair play is never a bad idea. Dude, dude, dude into a Geddon will cause some people to lose outright and that's basically as good as it gets.
Rout and Hallowed Burial are both under-appreciated. They're very good cards. Maybe not in this deck specifically but in general they're awesome.
I like Mass Calcify a lot in mono-White. It's the kind of card that actually wins games. ***, to me, is only ever there to stop you from falling too far behind. ***ing when you have multiple Exemplars out is obviously good but it's often win-more and basically any Wrath is good in that spot. Mass Calcify is a legitimate "come from behind" card that can take an otherwise meek board and turn it into a monster.
Geddon is very, very good in WW. Easily the best card in the deck. You even have Tax to ensure that you'll have action afterwards. It might not be triggering much after that but you can soldier on in spite of it :P. You don't exactly have the best Geddon deck ever conceived but I mean it could pull you out of some jams. I dunno, that's the kind of card that I would rather build around. I'd want to play 4 or more copies of it and really focus on curving out on turns 1-3. I actually think that Geddons are healthy to play with some of the time because otherwise it's nothing but Cabal Coffers, Nykthos, Cloudposts, etc. There's basically no reason not to run those kinds of cards in most MP circles otherwise. Your deck is very fair, like you're basically never doing anything overpowered, so having a legitimately unfair play is never a bad idea. Dude, dude, dude into a Geddon will cause some people to lose outright and that's basically as good as it gets.
Rout and Hallowed Burial are both under-appreciated. They're very good cards. Maybe not in this deck specifically but in general they're awesome.
I like Mass Calcify a lot in mono-White. It's the kind of card that actually wins games. ***, to me, is only ever there to stop you from falling too far behind. ***ing when you have multiple Exemplars out is obviously good but it's often win-more and basically any Wrath is good in that spot. Mass Calcify is a legitimate "come from behind" card that can take an otherwise meek board and turn it into a monster.
Indeed.
I've always loved Rout - never played with Hallowed Burial though.
If I can stay away from ***'s, all the better. Sometimes they are needed, but I have found usually in a MP setting it's used to clear the field of a single player that's over extending - with the added bonus of wiping everyone else.
I like this Calcify business - I will give it a go this weekend and see what develops.
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Burial is good because it just messes with resilience and revival. That's obviously not ideal in an Emeria deck but in a generic W/x Control shell ***s can often be lackluster at best. Obviously I'm biased because I play Volrath's Stronghold, Phyrexian Reclamation and Oversold Cemetery in everything but I mean I'm sure that I can't be the only one who appreciates Genesis and Emeria and all of that jazz. It also hits Blightsteel Colossus and Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre and any number of other resilient beaters. It gets Predator Ooze, Thrun, the Last Troll (Wrath does get regeneration though obviously), Demigod of Revenge, etc. Basically I find that actual Wrath is often extremely impotent. Hallowed Burial is cheaper than Final Judgment which makes it marginally superior in my experience (although both cards are good). Besides I'd rather play Merciless Eviction if I'm playing a 6 mana Wrath even if I have to splash Ozhov Basilica and Orzhov Guildgate in my otherwise mono-White deck in order to gain access to it.
How does your proposed deck ever win a game of Magic? At that point he's playing the fairest White aggro deck ever conceived. It would be nothing but fair creatures and fair removal pitted-off against a whack of opponents doing any number of unfair things. What you're suggesting is basically a 5% deck. The only way he could win games would be if everyone ignored him and he was gifted victories while everyone played a king-making game against everyone other than him. I literally don't see how he could possibly win a game otherwise.
Burial is good because it just messes with resilience and revival. That's obviously not ideal in an Emeria deck but in a generic W/x Control shell ***s can often be lackluster at best. Obviously I'm biased because I play Volrath's Stronghold, Phyrexian Reclamation and Oversold Cemetery in everything but I mean I'm sure that I can't be the only one who appreciates Genesis and Emeria and all of that jazz. It also hits Blightsteel Colossus and Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre and any number of other resilient beaters. It gets Predator Ooze, Thrun, the Last Troll (Wrath does get regeneration though obviously), Demigod of Revenge, etc. Basically I find that actual Wrath is often extremely impotent. Hallowed Burial is cheaper than Final Judgment which makes it marginally superior in my experience (although both cards are good). Besides I'd rather play Merciless Eviction if I'm playing a 6 mana Wrath even if I have to splash Ozhov Basilica and Orzhov Guildgate in my otherwise mono-White deck in order to gain access to it.
I mean, Terminus is 1 cmc higher if hard casted, but I would think given the right tools (tax/rack) that it could perform better than hallowed burial.
Needs more spot removal. Maybe 3/3 split of Path to Exile and Swords to Plowshares and add in 4 Windbrisk Heights. I would cut the Metamorphs and Baneslayers perosnally.
That would cut down taxing, which is needed.
If this was a duel deck I'd be more inclined to run spot removal and such, but in a MP setting - getting rid of 1 creature is only good if it's only looking in my direction. I realize I asked about that in my OP, but as things were discussed and fleshed out, this deck will quickly gain the attention of folks after landing even 1 exemplar. Also, I have a playset of STP's sitting here, which is why I was asking about thoughts on them.
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Whilst I like the deck I think it lacks instant speed answers. The way it sits now it doesn't interact at all just turns sideways and wakes. That is fine and all, but if I where playing it I would like to not have to rely on a 7 mana sorcery as my only real answer, but to each their own.
Edit: Meddler I understand about multiplayer and how spot removal isn't ideal all the time, but maybe a little bit would help. Also Wrath of God would be easier on the curve then Mass Calcify unless you can cheat it out.
Whilst I like the deck I think it lacks instant speed answers. The way it sits now it doesn't interact at all just turns sideways and wakes. That is fine and all, but if I where playing it I would like to not have to rely on a 7 mana sorcery as my only real answer, but to each their own.
I mean, Terminus is 1 cmc higher if hard casted, but I would think given the right tools (tax/rack) that it could perform better than hallowed burial.
Terminus is very good in the right shell. Tax Rack is great with it and so is Sensei's Divining Top. You can tap the Top to draw and cast the Terminus at instant speed to really get people. It can be a huge blow-out at times. While it's "fine" when played as a standalone card it's still worse than Hallowed Burial on average in my mind. A big reason for this is because the Miracle mechanic is ****ing stupid. I don't mean that it's overpowered or anything I just mean that it's basically impossible to play perfectly with them. What's going to happen 95% of the time is that you're going to slam the card in hand, say "woops!," put it back down, think about it and still end up putting it in your hand. Gee, what could you have POSSIBLY drawn? Better play more creatures! Miracle cards are just annoying as **** when you don't play with them on a regular basis. If you're a seasoned Miracle player, ok, sure, Terminus is fine. Hand a deck with Miracle cards to a random player and you're asking for trouble.
Whilst I like the deck I think it lacks instant speed answers. The way it sits now it doesn't interact at all just turns sideways and wakes. That is fine and all, but if I where playing it I would like to not have to rely on a 7 mana sorcery as my only real answer, but to each their own.
I want a deck that wins games; not one that interacts with people at instant speed. You proposed a deck with 6 spot removal spells and a bunch of 1-4 CMC creatures. What, if anything, does that deck offer the OP in a multiplayer setting? How does that deck win a game of Magic? What is your plan to beat anyone doing anything remotely unfair or powerful?
As for unfair advantage Aether Vial usually helps out there,
Unless he's adding Limited Resources/Armageddon to the deck I don't see how Vial would do anything other than put him down a card. He has almost no common CMCs and so this is what? A way to give a few durdles Flash? How is that remotely unfair?
- 4x Emeria is going to be too many, and may end up being counterproductive. I wouldn't run more than 1-2x in a deck
- Kinsbaile Cavalier seems underwhelming for 4 mana, as it's difficult to keep enough Knights in play to make it worthwhile. I would rather run Hero of Bladehold or Elspeth as a 4-drop or, if you want the Double Strike, Silverblade Paladin. True Conviction would even be a decent option if you anticipate a slower multiplayer environment and expect to have multiple creatures out, especially Hero of Bladehold
- I like Wrath in a deck with 4x Knight Exemplar and some number of Phyrexian Metamorph and/or Elspeth, but 4 might be too many. You could also get cute and run Day of Judgment instead alongside a set of Knight of the Holy Nimbus
Terminus is very good in the right shell. Tax Rack is great with it and so is Sensei's Divining Top. You can tap the Top to draw and cast the Terminus at instant speed to really get people. It can be a huge blow-out at times. While it's "fine" when played as a standalone card it's still worse than Hallowed Burial on average in my mind. A big reason for this is because the Miracle mechanic is ****ing stupid. I don't mean that it's overpowered or anything I just mean that it's basically impossible to play perfectly with them. What's going to happen 95% of the time is that you're going to slam the card in hand, say "woops!," put it back down, think about it and still end up putting it in your hand. Gee, what could you have POSSIBLY drawn? Better play more creatures! Miracle cards are just annoying as **** when you don't play with them on a regular basis. If you're a seasoned Miracle player, ok, sure, Terminus is fine. Hand a deck with Miracle cards to a random player and you're asking for trouble.
Heh - yeah. I play with Entreat the Angels in another tax/rack deck; was just curious if the other miracle cards were worth it.
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My missus has a knight deck that's hard to stop. Just about any mono-red deck with just give up and scoop against it.
Has all the usual knight fare, plus a set of Luminarch Ascension and some deathtouch equipment, with a few Stoneforge Mystic to find them.
Quite often no one can hit her until Ascension is already online, to which she simply plops out a wrath and swamps us in angels....
Ascension puts less pressure on you needing card draw to keep up with blue & black decks, or creature sweepers nuking your knights, so any board reset after turn 6 will potentially have with angels-on-deck without playing a card, while everyone else is relying on their grave/hand.
Together with Emeria, another card she runs a couple of is Sun Titan, as her deck is almost all 2 - 3 drops, including answers like Cleansing Meditation or more typical Ascension, Knight exemplar etc etc.
I struggled to keep my knight deck all on theme. I have used a whole host of cards in flex spots. From leonin skyhunter, to angel of jubilation, and eventually baneslayer, who is superior to all, although the "lesser" angel proved pretty decent with her HotP effect.
I like Honor of the Pure in these kinds of decks as well. All those 2/2 for 2 guys grow when you have Honor of the Pure and the +1/+1 effects are applied after Mirror Entity X cost is paid. So, pay X=5, all your guys are 5/5 and with an Exemplar and HotP out they are all 7/7. It gives your little knights even more reach.
I think I would like to see Mirror Entity in this deck. If he lives long enough to pay the X cost, all your creatures become "insert tribe here" which means they all get the knight bonuses. It's a great mana sink in a deck with a relatively low curve.
I run Vault of the Archangel and have used both Godless shrine or Isolated Chapel for the black splash, but technically the deck is still WHITE. Death touch and Lifelink to all my creatures to go with first strike, even more nuts if you happen to have indestructibility and double strike kicking around too
There are so many ways to take this deck, it's more about crafting what you like and expect to face. I have since added Gruul War Plow to give myself trample. It's not cheap at 4cmc but I got tired of my double striking lifelinkers killing the creature out right and not collecting the extra hit of damage and/or lifegain. Well not anymore, no more chumping if they don't get rid of the plow. It's a pet card of mine and I don't expect it to get a ringing endorsement, but it CAN make a huge difference.
Also, if you are going to run Mirran Crusader, absolutely use Sword of War and Peace for 4 color protection. He is just sooo much better when he gets through unmolested.
I know Kinsbaile Cavalier is over costed if he is on the field himself, but double strike with lifelink/trample can be game changing. I never leave home with at least two or three in this deck.
Primal Rage does what Gruul War Plow does for half the mana, unfortunately you would then need to splash green. This presents two choices, do I run green and play Gavony Township or stick with black and Vault of the Archangel. I opted for the latter because much like Serra's Blessing I am not really looking to drop trample effects that early, I am still too busy building my board.
Your mileage may differ.
I won't get into mass vs single removal. They both have their merits and only you know what is best for facing your meta.
20 Plains
4 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
Creatures: 25
4 Student of Warfare
4 Knight of Meadowgrain
4 Fiendslayer Paladin
4 Knight Exemplar
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
3 Mirran Crusader
2 Kinsbaile Cavalier
4 Land Tax
Spells: 4
4 Wrath of God
Equipment: 3
3 Loxodon Warhammer
I took out a set of Baneslayer Angels (while I am a fan, and they kick ass, they aren't 'knights') for a set of Metamorphs..running 8 exemplars is never a bad thing, imho. But I am torn....I really, really love Baneslayer's...and the deck does lack some flying defense (other than ***'s).
Lower ***'s to 2 and throw in 2 scroll racks? (works wonders in the Angel tribal deck..)
Should I throw in some control via STP or O-Ring?
Take out something else and jam in some Adaptive Automaton's ?
=\
Scroll Rack should 100% be added. It's draw vs 0 draw.
***s don't seem great but they don't seem bad either. There's a deceptively low amount of synergy in your deck. Like if you don't draw an Exemplar none of your cards have that much synergy. This isn't an Elf deck or anything in that sense. I'd cut back on creatures over Wraths probably... or I'd start by cutting 1 Wrath instead of 2. After all, Wrath with double Exemplar out is often a game win. I don't dislike them at all in your list. Mass Calcify is often overlooked too. You could always run that instead. You do have Tax to support it after all. Like your deck curves out with dudes; you're not Wrathing on turn 4 anyways. If you are then it's because everyone ganged-up on you for no reason or something. I don't hate fielding something like Austere Command or Mass Calcify that might not affect you at all.
For what it's worth I care more about building a good deck than forcing a theme. I play Stinkweed Imp in my zombie decks because I need flying defense and I actively want a full graveyard. It's not a zombie itself (even though it should be, look at it!) but that doesn't bother me because it makes my deck better. Baneslayer Angel would probably make this deck strictly better. It seems silly to me that you wouldn't run her because of a creature type. If this was an Angel of Glory's Rise deck, ok, sure, maybe then it makes less sense to load up on non-humans. Given that this is basically just a good-stuffs Knight deck with Metamorphs (who aren't Knights no matter how you slice it) I don't see any reason why Baneslayer should be excluded.
I do think that it's a shame that a Tax + Emeria Knight deck doesn't have Angel of Glory's Rise but that's probably just because it's such a pet card of mine. She's obviously garbage in your current build and Baneslayer wouldn't help the cause but I just really like that card in Emeria-based White decks.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
I get what you are saying - I tend to pigeonhole myself when building around a tribal theme - mostly for theme's sake.
Fiendslayer has actually done pretty well for me - not won the games for me or turned the tide of battle, but he's another meadowgrain, for all intended purposes. Also, there is a LOT of black and red at our table, so that is another tick in his favor. But I could use his spot for something better, I believe. He gets the job done, but already pushing the 3 cmc spot as it is.
However, with that being said, I may end up doing something like this:
20 Plains
4 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
Creatures: 20
4 Student of Warfare
4 Knight of Meadowgrain
4 Knight Exemplar
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Baneslayer Angel
4 Land Tax
Artifacts: 2
2 Scroll Rack
Spells: 3
3 Mass Calcify
3 Loxodon Warhammer
This leaves me with 4 open spots..
Why did the Crusaders come out? Cavaliers seemed fine too. Crusader is as insane blocker and once he gets an equipment on him it's lights out. Crusader is also insane with lords. Like Exemplar + Metamorph making a 4/4 Indestructible Crusader smashes people.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Yeah, I understand he doesn't have true "pro. B/R", it was just a nice bonus to a first stirking life linker..mostly.
They came out when I was messing around with creature count and other stuffs.
I'd like to run at least 3 Crusaders and 2 Cavaliers - just need to open up 1 extra spot for it - either drop to 23 land or 2 Warhammer is where I am leaning. Land tax helps with land, so 23 is still 'okay' and the same goes for 2 warhammers.
23 lands is fine in a Tax deck. I'd aggressively mull for one and since you get 2 free cracks at 7 and since dropping to 6 is fine you're pushing like a 75% chance to see a hand with a Tax and a Land. Even if you don't you're still allowed to draw lands in your 23 land deck heh. You also have a lot of early action even if you do "miss" a few times.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
True story, hah.
Fiendslayer does tend to get outpaced, now that you mention in. Maybe it's just been the games that I've fielded him are ones where he was effective? No matter - upgrading his spot is never a thing to fret over, hah.
19 Plains
4 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
Creatures: 25
4 Student of Warfare
4 Knight of Meadowgrain
4 Knight Exemplar
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
3 Mirran Crusader
2 Kinsbaile Cavalier
4 Baneslayer Angel
4 Land Tax
Artifacts: 2
2 Scroll Rack
Spells: 3
3 Mass Calcify
Equipment: 3
3 Loxodon Warhammer
Now we're cookin'.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
True - I never really attacked with him too much, honestly. That work went to Mirran or Baneslayer.
If Mass Calcify becomes cumbersome, I may swap it back out for *** or A.Command, but I do want to give it a shot and see what happens.
I'd also be inclined to throw in a Rout, haha.
I also thought about throwing in a single Armageddon for S and G's..
Rout and Hallowed Burial are both under-appreciated. They're very good cards. Maybe not in this deck specifically but in general they're awesome.
I like Mass Calcify a lot in mono-White. It's the kind of card that actually wins games. ***, to me, is only ever there to stop you from falling too far behind. ***ing when you have multiple Exemplars out is obviously good but it's often win-more and basically any Wrath is good in that spot. Mass Calcify is a legitimate "come from behind" card that can take an otherwise meek board and turn it into a monster.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Indeed.
I've always loved Rout - never played with Hallowed Burial though.
If I can stay away from ***'s, all the better. Sometimes they are needed, but I have found usually in a MP setting it's used to clear the field of a single player that's over extending - with the added bonus of wiping everyone else.
I like this Calcify business - I will give it a go this weekend and see what develops.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
How does your proposed deck ever win a game of Magic? At that point he's playing the fairest White aggro deck ever conceived. It would be nothing but fair creatures and fair removal pitted-off against a whack of opponents doing any number of unfair things. What you're suggesting is basically a 5% deck. The only way he could win games would be if everyone ignored him and he was gifted victories while everyone played a king-making game against everyone other than him. I literally don't see how he could possibly win a game otherwise.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
How about Terminus vs. Hallowed Burial ?
I mean, Terminus is 1 cmc higher if hard casted, but I would think given the right tools (tax/rack) that it could perform better than hallowed burial.
That would cut down taxing, which is needed.
If this was a duel deck I'd be more inclined to run spot removal and such, but in a MP setting - getting rid of 1 creature is only good if it's only looking in my direction. I realize I asked about that in my OP, but as things were discussed and fleshed out, this deck will quickly gain the attention of folks after landing even 1 exemplar. Also, I have a playset of STP's sitting here, which is why I was asking about thoughts on them.
Whilst I like the deck I think it lacks instant speed answers. The way it sits now it doesn't interact at all just turns sideways and wakes. That is fine and all, but if I where playing it I would like to not have to rely on a 7 mana sorcery as my only real answer, but to each their own.
Knight of the White Orchid I just remembered him and he is always nice.
As for unfair advantage Aether Vial usually helps out there,
Edit: Meddler I understand about multiplayer and how spot removal isn't ideal all the time, but maybe a little bit would help. Also Wrath of God would be easier on the curve then Mass Calcify unless you can cheat it out.
Indeed they aren't - I was improving my knights deck..by changing things out and making it better. Still mostly knights..
Terminus is very good in the right shell. Tax Rack is great with it and so is Sensei's Divining Top. You can tap the Top to draw and cast the Terminus at instant speed to really get people. It can be a huge blow-out at times. While it's "fine" when played as a standalone card it's still worse than Hallowed Burial on average in my mind. A big reason for this is because the Miracle mechanic is ****ing stupid. I don't mean that it's overpowered or anything I just mean that it's basically impossible to play perfectly with them. What's going to happen 95% of the time is that you're going to slam the card in hand, say "woops!," put it back down, think about it and still end up putting it in your hand. Gee, what could you have POSSIBLY drawn? Better play more creatures! Miracle cards are just annoying as **** when you don't play with them on a regular basis. If you're a seasoned Miracle player, ok, sure, Terminus is fine. Hand a deck with Miracle cards to a random player and you're asking for trouble.
Is that against the rules?
I want a deck that wins games; not one that interacts with people at instant speed. You proposed a deck with 6 spot removal spells and a bunch of 1-4 CMC creatures. What, if anything, does that deck offer the OP in a multiplayer setting? How does that deck win a game of Magic? What is your plan to beat anyone doing anything remotely unfair or powerful?
Unless he's adding Limited Resources/Armageddon to the deck I don't see how Vial would do anything other than put him down a card. He has almost no common CMCs and so this is what? A way to give a few durdles Flash? How is that remotely unfair?
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
- 4x Emeria is going to be too many, and may end up being counterproductive. I wouldn't run more than 1-2x in a deck
- Kinsbaile Cavalier seems underwhelming for 4 mana, as it's difficult to keep enough Knights in play to make it worthwhile. I would rather run Hero of Bladehold or Elspeth as a 4-drop or, if you want the Double Strike, Silverblade Paladin. True Conviction would even be a decent option if you anticipate a slower multiplayer environment and expect to have multiple creatures out, especially Hero of Bladehold
- I like Wrath in a deck with 4x Knight Exemplar and some number of Phyrexian Metamorph and/or Elspeth, but 4 might be too many. You could also get cute and run Day of Judgment instead alongside a set of Knight of the Holy Nimbus
Heh - yeah. I play with Entreat the Angels in another tax/rack deck; was just curious if the other miracle cards were worth it.
I would basically always play Terminus and Entreat the Angels in a Tax Rack deck with Sensei's Divining Top. Instant speed Miracle cards cast during combat just wrecks people.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
My missus has a knight deck that's hard to stop. Just about any mono-red deck with just give up and scoop against it.
Has all the usual knight fare, plus a set of Luminarch Ascension and some deathtouch equipment, with a few Stoneforge Mystic to find them.
Quite often no one can hit her until Ascension is already online, to which she simply plops out a wrath and swamps us in angels....
Ascension puts less pressure on you needing card draw to keep up with blue & black decks, or creature sweepers nuking your knights, so any board reset after turn 6 will potentially have with angels-on-deck without playing a card, while everyone else is relying on their grave/hand.
Together with Emeria, another card she runs a couple of is Sun Titan, as her deck is almost all 2 - 3 drops, including answers like Cleansing Meditation or more typical Ascension, Knight exemplar etc etc.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Good call. They must be it I was thinking of.
I like Honor of the Pure in these kinds of decks as well. All those 2/2 for 2 guys grow when you have Honor of the Pure and the +1/+1 effects are applied after Mirror Entity X cost is paid. So, pay X=5, all your guys are 5/5 and with an Exemplar and HotP out they are all 7/7. It gives your little knights even more reach.
I think I would like to see Mirror Entity in this deck. If he lives long enough to pay the X cost, all your creatures become "insert tribe here" which means they all get the knight bonuses. It's a great mana sink in a deck with a relatively low curve.
I run Vault of the Archangel and have used both Godless shrine or Isolated Chapel for the black splash, but technically the deck is still WHITE. Death touch and Lifelink to all my creatures to go with first strike, even more nuts if you happen to have indestructibility and double strike kicking around too
There are so many ways to take this deck, it's more about crafting what you like and expect to face. I have since added Gruul War Plow to give myself trample. It's not cheap at 4cmc but I got tired of my double striking lifelinkers killing the creature out right and not collecting the extra hit of damage and/or lifegain. Well not anymore, no more chumping if they don't get rid of the plow. It's a pet card of mine and I don't expect it to get a ringing endorsement, but it CAN make a huge difference.
Also, if you are going to run Mirran Crusader, absolutely use Sword of War and Peace for 4 color protection. He is just sooo much better when he gets through unmolested.
I know Kinsbaile Cavalier is over costed if he is on the field himself, but double strike with lifelink/trample can be game changing. I never leave home with at least two or three in this deck.
Primal Rage does what Gruul War Plow does for half the mana, unfortunately you would then need to splash green. This presents two choices, do I run green and play Gavony Township or stick with black and Vault of the Archangel. I opted for the latter because much like Serra's Blessing I am not really looking to drop trample effects that early, I am still too busy building my board.
Your mileage may differ.
I won't get into mass vs single removal. They both have their merits and only you know what is best for facing your meta.