I would say it may be worth including a few dredge creatures to toss these things into the grave to then be resurrected. If that's not your cup of tea, alternatively there's also these cards:
Jinxed Idol: "Yes, do sacrifice your creatures to trigger my effect that allows me to return a Wurmcoil Engine back from the grave, sacrificing it to give it back to you. Oh, and now I've got two more pets."
Mishra's Bauble and Urza's Bauble: Because card draw with a sacrifice effect when you have a reoccurring engine is never a bad thing.
Moonglove Extract: While not the best form of removal, it helps against black creatures which the capsule can't hit.
Welding Jar: Once again, easy to drop, easy to recur, and easily abusable for something destructive like the wurm or metamorph.
Most of these are cheap alternatives, but when it comes to much more devestatingly powerful cards, I wouldn't say these are the best, but are still noteworthy imo. Additionally, look for a card that can be used as a discard outlet. Drop the wurm into the grave in response to an opponents creature dying would be extremely satisfying.
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There would have been a message here about Jace, but Jace feigned interest and counterspelled any other reference of him in my signature...
Sylvok Replica is a big game and fills out the 3 CMC slot alongside Glissa. You'll want to run at least 1 in my opinion. I'm also a huge fan of Duplicant because exiling is always sweet and removal is always useful. The fact that he competes with the Wurmfather kind of sucks though.
Horizon Spellbomb and Nihil Spellbomb rarely let me down as singletons. Nihil will obviously vary in worth from meta to meta though.
If you're going to run a Dredger, run Stinkweed Imp. It trades with anything both in the air and on the ground and blanks those 1/1 Faeries quite well. It also Dredges for a lot which is always sweet. It even fuels Oversold Cemetery like a beast which is an interaction that I will personally never get tired of. If nothing else you can slam some equipment on it and bash people in the air with giant trampling deathtoucher.
Well, this is my starting point I believe. I would like to squeeze in a couple Sylvok Replica and/or Moriok Replica because I don't have much in the way of card draw. Beast Within is well . . . beastly.
@Tyrantherus - Thanks for your suggestions, but none of those exactly "pop".
@Cz - I would like to squeeze in some replicas, thanks for reminding me. The spellbombs seem cute, but also seem lackluster in a deck pressed for space. Also I want to stay away from dredging.
@Xyx - I agree that both your suggestions are fairly narrow and not really needed. Now something like Massacre Wurm, I could possibly get behind. And no, I don't have any experience with Grim Feast.
*edit* Is Memory Jar worth playing? Or is it more for combo decks?
I keep thinking about sliding Grim Feast into a deck. Anyone have experience with that?
I do. Pro tip: you need to have a computer handy so that you can prove to people that it's not "target opponent." It's very important XD. Otherwise the card is about as good as it looks. If your meta is comprised of 8 people who all play creatures like mine then it can easily gain 50 life over 6-10 turns. Mass removal is abundant and enchantment removal comes at a bit of premium so people aren't always willing to fire them off at random lifegain spells. While lifegain may not win games outright it does put you out of reach of random beats and X burn spells so people who hit 80ish life tend to go deep and often win because it's just so hard to ever race that. Even if they're behind they can get ahead before succumbing to the pressure.
*edit* Is Memory Jar worth playing? Or is it more for combo decks?
Just so we're all clear about how this deck would use Jar I'll briefly cover it. When the player to your immediate right passes the turn you can crack the Jar to start your turn with a fresh set of 7. Your opponents will only have access to instants whereas you'll be able to play lands, creatures, etc. The problem with that plan in this deck is that your overall CMC is high. It's basically a 5 mana draw 3 (and even that seems generous) that will also allow your opponents to draw say 1 card on average. Fabricated numbers are fabricated but I mean I think that I'm being reasonable here. Anyways, that's just terrible. Syphon Mind puts that to shame. Oh, and yes, I understand that it puts stuff in your GY. That fact hasn't escaped me. That's still not going to entice me to play a marginal, expensive draw spell. Even if we assume that "milling 7" is like virtually drawing a card or two, which realistically it probably isn't, it's still not an amazing card.
Okay so I played this deck as posted above (except with a few extra cards of Replicas and Massacre Wurm) and my good Lord sweet Jeebus can it have some explosive plays. The massive amount of manafixing is sweet to go:
Turn 2: Hunted Horror
Turn 3: Glissa
Turn 4: Hunted Troll
Turn 5: Phyrexian Metamorph copying the Troll
Turn 6: Massacre Wurm (The player that had 8 faerie tokens was not pleased to say the least).
Things I noticed in the few games I played. Early card draw is pretty much nonexistent and Trading Post so far has been a shade clunky. I mean I'm dropping bombs with the Hunted creatures, Glissa, and Shockwave (Wurmcoil Engines) & Massacre Wurms.
So I thought about splashing blue for Courier's Capsule and when I can acquire them Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas. Thoughts? I don't/won't have the Tezzs anytime real soon so what other options do I have?
Things I noticed in the few games I played. Early card draw is pretty much nonexistent and Trading Post so far has been a shade clunky. I mean I'm dropping bombs with the Hunted creatures, Glissa, and Shockwave (Wurmcoil Engines) & Massacre Wurms.
I have a different take on card draw. My personal approach to the problem is typically a 3 step sytem:
Step 1: Play Magic,
Step 2: Play With Yourself,
Step 3: Play Magic.
I've tried to squeeze a bit more "play with yourself" in there but I found that the best time to do that is actually around 11pm at night. If anyone wants some tips or tricks feel free to PM me but I don't want to derail this reply too much.
Anyways, I personally believe that you're better off "playing Magic" before dicking around with card draw. Early draw tends to be 2-for-1s such as Sign in Blood that are piss-poor mid-to-lategame plays. They smooth your draws which is fine but it's not exactly powerful. I would much rather cast a Golgari Signet on turn 2 and a creature on turns 3 and 4 and then cast a real draw spell such as Syphon Mind on turn 5 or 6. From there I would go back to "playing Magic" and casting real spells that do something. This, to me, is a game-winning sequence of plays. I am not looking for something average. Your overall win % in multiplayer Magic should be relatively low and I mean realistically having a decent draw every game just isn't going to cut it. You want to have very powerful draws even if they don't come quite as frequently. This is why I don't usually advocate filling your decks with Preordains and Ponders. Doing something consistent is fine and all but I mean this isn't the time nor the place. Play for the nut draws that will actually take the table down. Sacrificing a bit of consistency for a lot of power is extremely worthwhile in my experience.
This, to me, is the strategy of champions. By having a consistent and relevant early game you can avoid being aggro'd out to ensure that you will in fact hit the mid-to-lategame with a lot of health and mana. Or, in order words, you'll go deep in a relatively strong position. Once you get there you can kind of coast and sit back on a small number of key threats while you build-up some resources in your hand. After casting a few dudes you can take a turn off to refill to ensure that the turn 7 Wrath doesn't just leave you drawing dead. By alternative between casting 2-3 threats and refilling with a big draw spell you should be able to consistently protect yourself while pressuring others as needed. Playing 1 spell per turn is well within reason and that's normally "good enough" to keep people from pestering you too much in my experience. As long as you appear to be an active player who's committing resources then it shouldn't set off too many alarm bells.
Now, let's briefly discuss the weakness of my strategy. Sometimes your draw just sucks ass. Sometimes you keep a 3 lander and miss for 6 turns. Sign in Blood or whatever could, in theory, help you out in spots where your draw is just garbage. Ponder effects are obviously superior at that but I mean anything is better than nothing. These games, to me, are lost causes. I don't care enough to worry about the games where I was never going to win anyways. I'll play ramp and reasonably priced draw spells but if I mean I'm not going to play Necrogen Spellbombs to give myself outs when I'm stuck on 2 lands for 2 turns and need to cycle for a third. You will just plain automatically lose some % of your games and nothing will ever change that. I personally believe that it's foolish to even try. As such, this particular weakness doesn't rattle me. I can live with it.
If my games follow the above pattern to an extent I guess I don't need early card draw.
You don't need to employ my tactics or strategies in order to win. No one really "needs" anything as a matter of fact. It's just a style that I like and that works for me. If you want early card draw, that's fine. I just personally don't want to play a 2-for-1 in a setting where I'm being completely buried in card disadvantage. That's not a worthwhile use of time and resources to me. Learning to survive and thrive in every meta takes patience and experience moreso than anything else. If your games end on turn 7 then playing a Syphon Mind on turn 5 is probably pointless. You have a better bead on the speed and power of the average deck in your area so just make sure that you're thinking about that moreso than anything else. I can guide you to the best of my abilities but I don't know nearly enough about your playgroup to give you a truly informed opinion.
I get ya and understand things are meta dependant and I feel my meta is probably a little quicker than yours but I still feel after reading your post and with the few games under my belt that if I can build that mind of board presence that early and fast then I need bigger more powerful draw later in the game than the 1 bonus card trickle the trading post supplies
After several games under my belt I must say that I am loving this deck and loving the "Hunted" Creatures in general. The Horror and Troll bring so much power to the table at such a low cost.
I personally find that Trading Post is worthless. It is slow and clunky in my opinion and going to get cut. I honestly think I'm going to replace it with either some Dingus Staffs or try Tyrantherus' suggestions of running some free baubles.
I believe I'm going to include some of the staples with Glissa which include:
I'm also going to include Expedition Map with some juicy lands like Volrath's Stronghold and a few equipments such as Loxodon Warhammer and Sword of Vengeance because lets be honest Glissa is beast with trample and super beastly with trample and vigilance! :o.
So what am I missing?
GWBKarador, Necrotic Ooze SubthemeBWG
Jinxed Idol: "Yes, do sacrifice your creatures to trigger my effect that allows me to return a Wurmcoil Engine back from the grave, sacrificing it to give it back to you. Oh, and now I've got two more pets."
Mishra's Bauble and Urza's Bauble: Because card draw with a sacrifice effect when you have a reoccurring engine is never a bad thing.
Moonglove Extract: While not the best form of removal, it helps against black creatures which the capsule can't hit.
Welding Jar: Once again, easy to drop, easy to recur, and easily abusable for something destructive like the wurm or metamorph.
Most of these are cheap alternatives, but when it comes to much more devestatingly powerful cards, I wouldn't say these are the best, but are still noteworthy imo. Additionally, look for a card that can be used as a discard outlet. Drop the wurm into the grave in response to an opponents creature dying would be extremely satisfying.
There would have been a message here about Jace, but Jace feigned interest and counterspelled any other reference of him in my signature...
Special Thanks to Spiderboy4 at //forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=91142">High~Light Studios for making an awesome avatar in a timely manner!
Horizon Spellbomb and Nihil Spellbomb rarely let me down as singletons. Nihil will obviously vary in worth from meta to meta though.
You'll probably want more than a singleton Volrath's Stronghold for Glissa recursion. I like Phyrexian Reclamation, Oversold Cemetery and Haunted Crossroads myself.
If you're going to run a Dredger, run Stinkweed Imp. It trades with anything both in the air and on the ground and blanks those 1/1 Faeries quite well. It also Dredges for a lot which is always sweet. It even fuels Oversold Cemetery like a beast which is an interaction that I will personally never get tired of. If nothing else you can slam some equipment on it and bash people in the air with giant trampling deathtoucher.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
4 Hunted Horror
4 Glissa, the Traitor
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Hunted Troll
2 Wurmcoil Engine
SPELLS:
2 Executioner's Capsule
2 Expedition Map
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Loxodon Warhammer
2 Sword of Vengeance
4 Beast Within
3 Trading Post
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Bayou
4 Twilight Mire
3 Golgari Rot Farm
3 Forest
2 Swamp
Well, this is my starting point I believe. I would like to squeeze in a couple Sylvok Replica and/or Moriok Replica because I don't have much in the way of card draw. Beast Within is well . . . beastly.
@Tyrantherus - Thanks for your suggestions, but none of those exactly "pop".
@Cz - I would like to squeeze in some replicas, thanks for reminding me. The spellbombs seem cute, but also seem lackluster in a deck pressed for space. Also I want to stay away from dredging.
@Xyx - I agree that both your suggestions are fairly narrow and not really needed. Now something like Massacre Wurm, I could possibly get behind. And no, I don't have any experience with Grim Feast.
*edit* Is Memory Jar worth playing? Or is it more for combo decks?
GWBKarador, Necrotic Ooze SubthemeBWG
Ah good point. My bad. That was a minor consideration at best however.
I do. Pro tip: you need to have a computer handy so that you can prove to people that it's not "target opponent." It's very important XD. Otherwise the card is about as good as it looks. If your meta is comprised of 8 people who all play creatures like mine then it can easily gain 50 life over 6-10 turns. Mass removal is abundant and enchantment removal comes at a bit of premium so people aren't always willing to fire them off at random lifegain spells. While lifegain may not win games outright it does put you out of reach of random beats and X burn spells so people who hit 80ish life tend to go deep and often win because it's just so hard to ever race that. Even if they're behind they can get ahead before succumbing to the pressure.
Just so we're all clear about how this deck would use Jar I'll briefly cover it. When the player to your immediate right passes the turn you can crack the Jar to start your turn with a fresh set of 7. Your opponents will only have access to instants whereas you'll be able to play lands, creatures, etc. The problem with that plan in this deck is that your overall CMC is high. It's basically a 5 mana draw 3 (and even that seems generous) that will also allow your opponents to draw say 1 card on average. Fabricated numbers are fabricated but I mean I think that I'm being reasonable here. Anyways, that's just terrible. Syphon Mind puts that to shame. Oh, and yes, I understand that it puts stuff in your GY. That fact hasn't escaped me. That's still not going to entice me to play a marginal, expensive draw spell. Even if we assume that "milling 7" is like virtually drawing a card or two, which realistically it probably isn't, it's still not an amazing card.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Turn 2: Hunted Horror
Turn 3: Glissa
Turn 4: Hunted Troll
Turn 5: Phyrexian Metamorph copying the Troll
Turn 6: Massacre Wurm (The player that had 8 faerie tokens was not pleased to say the least).
Things I noticed in the few games I played. Early card draw is pretty much nonexistent and Trading Post so far has been a shade clunky. I mean I'm dropping bombs with the Hunted creatures, Glissa, and Shockwave (Wurmcoil Engines) & Massacre Wurms.
So I thought about splashing blue for Courier's Capsule and when I can acquire them Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas. Thoughts? I don't/won't have the Tezzs anytime real soon so what other options do I have?
GWBKarador, Necrotic Ooze SubthemeBWG
as for card draw look to the eggs, conjourers capsule , chromatic sphere, Nihil spellbomb they are good can trips.
Vampire nighthawk would be a good way to stay alive
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
I have a different take on card draw. My personal approach to the problem is typically a 3 step sytem:
Step 1: Play Magic,
Step 2: Play With Yourself,
Step 3: Play Magic.
I've tried to squeeze a bit more "play with yourself" in there but I found that the best time to do that is actually around 11pm at night. If anyone wants some tips or tricks feel free to PM me but I don't want to derail this reply too much.
Anyways, I personally believe that you're better off "playing Magic" before dicking around with card draw. Early draw tends to be 2-for-1s such as Sign in Blood that are piss-poor mid-to-lategame plays. They smooth your draws which is fine but it's not exactly powerful. I would much rather cast a Golgari Signet on turn 2 and a creature on turns 3 and 4 and then cast a real draw spell such as Syphon Mind on turn 5 or 6. From there I would go back to "playing Magic" and casting real spells that do something. This, to me, is a game-winning sequence of plays. I am not looking for something average. Your overall win % in multiplayer Magic should be relatively low and I mean realistically having a decent draw every game just isn't going to cut it. You want to have very powerful draws even if they don't come quite as frequently. This is why I don't usually advocate filling your decks with Preordains and Ponders. Doing something consistent is fine and all but I mean this isn't the time nor the place. Play for the nut draws that will actually take the table down. Sacrificing a bit of consistency for a lot of power is extremely worthwhile in my experience.
This, to me, is the strategy of champions. By having a consistent and relevant early game you can avoid being aggro'd out to ensure that you will in fact hit the mid-to-lategame with a lot of health and mana. Or, in order words, you'll go deep in a relatively strong position. Once you get there you can kind of coast and sit back on a small number of key threats while you build-up some resources in your hand. After casting a few dudes you can take a turn off to refill to ensure that the turn 7 Wrath doesn't just leave you drawing dead. By alternative between casting 2-3 threats and refilling with a big draw spell you should be able to consistently protect yourself while pressuring others as needed. Playing 1 spell per turn is well within reason and that's normally "good enough" to keep people from pestering you too much in my experience. As long as you appear to be an active player who's committing resources then it shouldn't set off too many alarm bells.
Now, let's briefly discuss the weakness of my strategy. Sometimes your draw just sucks ass. Sometimes you keep a 3 lander and miss for 6 turns. Sign in Blood or whatever could, in theory, help you out in spots where your draw is just garbage. Ponder effects are obviously superior at that but I mean anything is better than nothing. These games, to me, are lost causes. I don't care enough to worry about the games where I was never going to win anyways. I'll play ramp and reasonably priced draw spells but if I mean I'm not going to play Necrogen Spellbombs to give myself outs when I'm stuck on 2 lands for 2 turns and need to cycle for a third. You will just plain automatically lose some % of your games and nothing will ever change that. I personally believe that it's foolish to even try. As such, this particular weakness doesn't rattle me. I can live with it.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
If my games follow the above pattern to an extent I guess I don't need early card draw.
GWBKarador, Necrotic Ooze SubthemeBWG
If you're going to break up with me then man the **** up and do it face-to-face. I'm not going to make a scene.
You don't need to employ my tactics or strategies in order to win. No one really "needs" anything as a matter of fact. It's just a style that I like and that works for me. If you want early card draw, that's fine. I just personally don't want to play a 2-for-1 in a setting where I'm being completely buried in card disadvantage. That's not a worthwhile use of time and resources to me. Learning to survive and thrive in every meta takes patience and experience moreso than anything else. If your games end on turn 7 then playing a Syphon Mind on turn 5 is probably pointless. You have a better bead on the speed and power of the average deck in your area so just make sure that you're thinking about that moreso than anything else. I can guide you to the best of my abilities but I don't know nearly enough about your playgroup to give you a truly informed opinion.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
GWBKarador, Necrotic Ooze SubthemeBWG
I personally find that Trading Post is worthless. It is slow and clunky in my opinion and going to get cut. I honestly think I'm going to replace it with either some Dingus Staffs or try Tyrantherus' suggestions of running some free baubles.
GWBKarador, Necrotic Ooze SubthemeBWG