I wouldn't have Nyxathid in a deck for a nelw player. It could be confusing and frustrate them.
Same thing with Gatekeeper of Malakir , I wouldn't introduce cards with things like 'kicker' right away. If he seems to get the game and is going well than after a few weeks you could put these more complicated cards in the deck.
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I wouldn't have Nyxathid in a deck for a nelw player. It could be confusing and frustrate them.
Same thing with Gatekeeper of Malakir , I wouldn't introduce cards with things like 'kicker' right away. If he seems to get the game and is going well than after a few weeks you could put these more complicated cards in the deck.
Yeah you're probably right, maybe I'll just sub in some ravenous rats and terror for those cards. Hopefully he will enjoy the deck.
One other thing you need to remember is you also need to make your deck be a newbie deck, and take out things that would confuse a new player from your deck as well.
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What do you of think of Liliana's caress, megrim for 1B?
I have been trying to make a discard deck work for quite a while, I also have the problem of wanting it to be able to win legacy tournaments I play in. I need some help and I don't care of the cost just, legacy legal and competitive.
Upon playing the deck Hated suggested i found that it was way way to slow.
I am liking the auger of skulls over the fiend. I get 2 cards or a regenerating creature.
any ideas how to make the deck faster. or a faster discard deck
How is Fiend better than Inquisition in competitive Legacy? And when did Therapy get bad?
Pure discard spells are not really good, 'cause once opponent gets on topdeck mode it just become useless, so you get tons of dead cards on your hand. And that's why most discard decks fails on legacy.
Discard creature, otherwise, have their body that you can play with, discarding or not, so they never become a dead card.
Therapy is subpar compared to other "targeted" discard spells like Thoughtseize, Duress and such, just because you must know what is your threat to make it really effective. Legacy meta is too vast to the deck support Therapy.
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"Now i lay you, down to rest, you'll never be more than second best" (Megadeth)
The auger of skulls is much more useful then the fiend.
NEVER, Augur is conditional, just can be activated on upkeep, and just hit random cards from your opponent's hands. On the other hand, Mesmeric Fiend hits specific cards that are valuable to your opponent, and you not even need to sacrifice it.
Finally, discard decks aren't meant to be agressive. Discard by it's nature has a control pattern. Discard doesn't even have enough material to match aggro decks' pace.
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"Now i lay you, down to rest, you'll never be more than second best" (Megadeth)
Well,,, I need to be able to go against aggro decks, and the rat deck didn't seem to be the option.
I don't know which deck you mean, but if you meant the Rats' Rack, maybe it's your lack of pratice with it.
First you must realize that it's a control deck, so forget your "agressive" talk. Your main goal is not winning through creatures, but The Rack effects (creatures will just hit if unnoposed).
Your second goal is stall the board and discard 'til the effects you want start to punish, and you can accomplish that just by chomp blocking with the rats you've cast, removing the attackers with removals, or doing tricks like: Swarmyard + any rat (solid wall) or Swarmyard + Crypt Rats (clean table and let your mass removal ready for another round).
When your opponent gets without cards on hands, without creatures on table, and with Rack effects punishing them, you archieve your gg. Control decks are usually harder to pilot than aggro ones, because you must really know when to cast your cards or you get rushed.
Counterspell is not something to care about with discard control, if you cast a discard spell and he casts a counterspell, you've forced him to discard AND waste mana (bonus!) or discard another card (Force of Will), so your discard did it's function. Soon or later he'll reach the topdeck mode, where Rack effects will trigger.
If you think you can't handle the deck, run something more suitable to your gameplay, but always pick solid cards for it's roles if you're meant to be competitive.
Pure discard spells are not really good, 'cause once opponent gets on topdeck mode it just become useless, so you get tons of dead cards on your hand. And that's why most discard decks fails on legacy.
Discard creature, otherwise, have their body that you can play with, discarding or not, so they never become a dead card.
Therapy is subpar compared to other "targeted" discard spells like Thoughtseize, Duress and such, just because you must know what is your threat to make it really effective. Legacy meta is too vast to the deck support Therapy.
[...]
[Augur] just hit[s] random cards from your opponent's hands
If Fiend actualy exiled the card not depending on its weak carcass, I'd fully agree. The thing is, that Fiend for me never did more than snatch a play on the curve and die.
Rat atleast keeps the card it's taken, but the disadvantage is that it's pro'ly the weakest card.
With Therapy you don't have to know the meta by heart, just your op.'s hand - one's Duress and TS for that. And you can feed your discard critters to it, if you have them.
Alas, I've never been to a legacy event with Discard.dec.
I have been considering putting that card into the deck. My problem with the card in my opinion is even though it can be very powerful early in game, it can be blocked very easily. Also, if I would add any other creature to this deck it would probably be abyssal nocturnus just because it's a lot harder to block, but again I'm trying to keep the deck a decent size. Thanks for the input though .
ok take out the guul draz specter and augur of skulls add mutilate and dark ritual I have a discard deck like yours but you have hymn a very good spell also maybe add liliana I see no reason why not to add her one last thing the grimoire is probably to slow. check my sig for the list.
4 racks would make this deck better. They are beasts. Also I think the Gul Draz Specters should stay, you're gonna need plenty of cards that can actually win you the game rather than just emptying opponents hands (even better if they can do both). I would say the Rats could go. They're good early on but once your opponents hand is empty they are pretty much a dead draw, at least the augur can block.
I opened one last year, got two crap worldwake packs and 8x scathe zombies, which I promptly hid around my sister's apartment for her roommates to find. But, yeah, it was a piece of crap.
You, sir, have just won the internet. Congratulations.
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Yeah thanks that is where I originally looked for the starting ideas for this deck.
Same thing with Gatekeeper of Malakir , I wouldn't introduce cards with things like 'kicker' right away. If he seems to get the game and is going well than after a few weeks you could put these more complicated cards in the deck.
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"STAY CLEAR OF WHITE POWDER"
311 "Who's Got the Herb"
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Yeah you're probably right, maybe I'll just sub in some ravenous rats and terror for those cards. Hopefully he will enjoy the deck.
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"STAY CLEAR OF WHITE POWDER"
311 "Who's Got the Herb"
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I have been trying to make a discard deck work for quite a while, I also have the problem of wanting it to be able to win legacy tournaments I play in. I need some help and I don't care of the cost just, legacy legal and competitive.
16 Swamp
4 Dark Ritual
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Funeral Charm
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 The Rack
4 Doom Blade
4 Ravenous Rats
4 Augur of Skulls
3 Hypnotic Specter
2 Nyxathid
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Geth's Grimoire
I understand that thoughtseize might be a great card over the Inquisition but I hate losing that 2 life.
Don't. Just play the best spells if you want to play on competitive.
+4 Nezumi Shortfang
+4 Thoughtseize
+4 Mesmeric Fiend
+3 Swarmyard
+2 Nyxathid
+1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
+1 Hypnotic Specter
-4 Inquisition of Kozilek
-4 Augur of Skulls
-4 Swamp
-4 Funeral Charm
-2 Cabal Therapy
-1 Geth's Grimoire
This will make your deck like this:
01 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
03 Swarmyard
04 Wasteland
12 Swamp
04 Ravenous Rats
04 Mesmeric Fiend
04 Nezumi Shortfang
04 Hypnotic Specter
04 Nyxathid
04 Dark Ritual
04 The Rack
04 Thoughtseize
04 Hymn to Tourach
04 Doom Blade
I am liking the auger of skulls over the fiend. I get 2 cards or a regenerating creature.
any ideas how to make the deck faster. or a faster discard deck
Pure discard spells are not really good, 'cause once opponent gets on topdeck mode it just become useless, so you get tons of dead cards on your hand. And that's why most discard decks fails on legacy.
Discard creature, otherwise, have their body that you can play with, discarding or not, so they never become a dead card.
Therapy is subpar compared to other "targeted" discard spells like Thoughtseize, Duress and such, just because you must know what is your threat to make it really effective. Legacy meta is too vast to the deck support Therapy.
current deck,
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
15 Swamp
4 Dark Ritual
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Funeral Charm
4 The Rack
4 Doom Blade
4 Thoughtseize
4 Ravenous Rats
4 Augur of Skulls
4 Hypnotic Specter
4 Nyxathid
2 Sadistic Sacrament
4 Tormod's Crypt
2 Syphon Life
3 Damnation
It seems to be much more aggressive then the rat deck, but I still has few issues
NEVER, Augur is conditional, just can be activated on upkeep, and just hit random cards from your opponent's hands. On the other hand, Mesmeric Fiend hits specific cards that are valuable to your opponent, and you not even need to sacrifice it.
Finally, discard decks aren't meant to be agressive. Discard by it's nature has a control pattern. Discard doesn't even have enough material to match aggro decks' pace.
Legacy (my meta is filled with merfolk and their counterspells, and Zoo)
I don't know which deck you mean, but if you meant the Rats' Rack, maybe it's your lack of pratice with it.
First you must realize that it's a control deck, so forget your "agressive" talk. Your main goal is not winning through creatures, but The Rack effects (creatures will just hit if unnoposed).
Your second goal is stall the board and discard 'til the effects you want start to punish, and you can accomplish that just by chomp blocking with the rats you've cast, removing the attackers with removals, or doing tricks like: Swarmyard + any rat (solid wall) or Swarmyard + Crypt Rats (clean table and let your mass removal ready for another round).
When your opponent gets without cards on hands, without creatures on table, and with Rack effects punishing them, you archieve your gg. Control decks are usually harder to pilot than aggro ones, because you must really know when to cast your cards or you get rushed.
Counterspell is not something to care about with discard control, if you cast a discard spell and he casts a counterspell, you've forced him to discard AND waste mana (bonus!) or discard another card (Force of Will), so your discard did it's function. Soon or later he'll reach the topdeck mode, where Rack effects will trigger.
If you think you can't handle the deck, run something more suitable to your gameplay, but always pick solid cards for it's roles if you're meant to be competitive.
If Fiend actualy exiled the card not depending on its weak carcass, I'd fully agree. The thing is, that Fiend for me never did more than snatch a play on the curve and die.
Rat atleast keeps the card it's taken, but the disadvantage is that it's pro'ly the weakest card.
With Therapy you don't have to know the meta by heart, just your op.'s hand - one's Duress and TS for that. And you can feed your discard critters to it, if you have them.
Alas, I've never been to a legacy event with Discard.dec.
- 4x Mesmeric Fiend
- 1x Nezumi Shortfang
+ 4x Inquisition (his meta description)
+ 1x Swamp
If Dark Zoo is a contender, replace Doom Blade with Smother.
4x Ravenous rats
4x hypnotic specter
4x Gull Draz Specter
2x geth's grimoire
2x quest for the Nihil Stone
4x doomblade
4x sign in blood
4x blackmail
4x hymn of tourach
Ideas or suggestions for this deck would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
CG
Garruk's Predators
Liliana's Corruption
[URL="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/1015-w-modern-affinity-and-random-edh-stuff-h-legacy[/URL]
Geth's Grimoire should go, I would add two more The Rack in its place.
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"STAY CLEAR OF WHITE POWDER"
311 "Who's Got the Herb"
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5 mountains
2 arid mesa
4 bloodstained mire
4 badlands
4 duress
3 browbeat
3 lightning bolt
4 hymn to tourach
4 hypnotic specter
3 ravenous rats
3 augur of skulls
4 nyxiathid
3 terminate
what do you think?
Yes. It's better early game, late game and hurts them eventually.
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