Your strategy has major gaps. For instance, a well timed fog practically ruins your atog and by that extension, your game, unless you feel like paying for Arcbound ravager
somber hoverguard is practically useless now, there are many options to consider, check the usual card choice sections for ideas
If M.o.E is getting to expensive for you then consider broodstar the flying equivalent. Its around $1 or for even cheaper options consider cranial platting
Do remember that control isn't the overall theme of this deck, this is suppose to be fast paced aggro which ends with a combo, storage matrix and icy manipulator are at 3 and 4 cmc respectively, both relatively high in this deck.
Also consider adding 1-2 more lands. 16 is really cutting it low here
Those are all good points. Thank you. Arcbound Ravager is pricey for me. I am working on getting both M.o.E. and Broodstar but should I be running both? At the moment I have somber hoverguard because I am not too sure what to replace them with. Where is this list of cards you mentioned?
I was thinking of taking out the hoverguards for galvanic blasts and the storage matrix for a few tree of tales. Like you pointed out, there are times when I don't get the land I need. Should I opt for the tree of tales or opt for basic lands now? I do have the cranial platings in my deck though. Thanks for the feedback. Hopefully my deck runs smoothly enough when I get to play it.
*EDIT* Also, would skeleton shard be worth purchasing for this deck?
another artifact land is good, its your choice on which one which is largely based on your SB if you have one. Max land should be 18-19, lowest should be 17
completely missed the platings
Skeleton shard isn't really worth it, the 3 cmc hurts and it would be better to include some more aggro cards in
Hey, I have really been wanting to start up an affinity artifact deck but don't have the funds for any card that cost's over like 3-5$. It would be awesome if someone could give me an example or some pointers?
Hey, I have really been wanting to start up an affinity artifact deck but don't have the funds for any card that cost's over like 3-5$. It would be awesome if someone could give me an example or some pointers?
Pretty much everything is a common besides Arcbound Ravager, who costs about $18 each. He can be replaced by Atog.
Meh. K, so Glimmervoid is out of your price range. Suitable replacement, I suppose, would just be probably 2 swamps, 2 islands. Or 2 islands, 1 swamp, 1 mountain. W/e. Hard to screw up affinity, frankly.
Something like that might work for budget purposes. If you look hard enough you can easily find Master of Etherium for $3.00 (seriously, it keeps getting reprinted over and over, Affinity isn't T1 in Legacy and it's not even in standard anymore). You should also be able to find Glimmervoid cheap (like under $3.00 cheap). Everything else is a common/uncommon that should be fairly easy to aquire.
Edit: If you find that the Disciple of the Vault is really lacking here you could try and slot in Atog (probably over 2-4x Galvanic Blast to keep the colour in the deck to a minimum.
Also, if you want to play a slightly more broken version, slot in 4x Skullclamp instead of 4x Thoughtcast and in this instance use 3-4x Atog over 3-4x Galvanic Blast. Skullclamp can be found for $2.00-$3.00 but isn't Legacy legal and, frankly, some people will stop playing if you drop them down on the table.
Hey, I have really been wanting to start up an affinity artifact deck but don't have the funds for any card that cost's over like 3-5$. It would be awesome if someone could give me an example or some pointers?
Yea, I had the same problem at first being a student without a job. I was able to get my deck up for less than 25 dollars (US) i think and that's buying all the cards I needed. Grant it some cards will bring up your cost like arcbound ravager and Master of Etherium. M.o.E is less than 5 dollars (US) at where I shop. My deck is posted in this thread though it's still getting pointers from the community :).
another artifact land is good, its your choice on which one which is largely based on your SB if you have one. Max land should be 18-19, lowest should be 17
completely missed the platings
Skeleton shard isn't really worth it, the 3 cmc hurts and it would be better to include some more aggro cards in
Oh, I completely forgot memnite. Guess i should stop shopping for the broodstar but I do like his evasion. I don't have a sideboard at the moment since I'm not too sure what would fit in it. Adding some artifacts lands as I type this. Thanks for all the feedback. I'll report a new deck list when I can.
Something like that might work for budget purposes. If you look hard enough you can easily find Master of Etherium for $3.00 (seriously, it keeps getting reprinted over and over, Affinity isn't T1 in Legacy and it's not even in standard anymore). You should also be able to find Glimmervoid cheap (like under $3.00 cheap). Everything else is a common/uncommon that should be fairly easy to aquire.
Edit: If you find that the Disciple of the Vault is really lacking here you could try and slot in Atog (probably over 2-4x Galvanic Blast to keep the colour in the deck to a minimum.
Also, if you want to play a slightly more broken version, slot in 4x Skullclamp instead of 4x Thoughtcast and in this instance use 3-4x Atog over 3-4x Galvanic Blast. Skullclamp can be found for $2.00-$3.00 but isn't Legacy legal and, frankly, some people will stop playing if you drop them down on the table.
Good legacy legal deck man. I might post this as an example deck
hows the 20 land working for you? I always though that 20 is cutting it a little high
I personally prefer another color fixer (chromatic sphere) as oppose to burn. But at least Galvanic blast doesn't require a sacrifice
Being a cheapass, I love affinity. The one thing I don't love though, is the total lack of variation. sadly, I don't get much opportunity, what do you guys think of Infiltration Lens or the Thopter-SwordEngine?
i think that the casual primers have too serious decks(too competetive maybe?).. . like in my affinity, i have triskelion for a fun actually strong combo with ravager for a great machine gun wiping the board or finishing an opponent,
i also have tezzeret to tutor ravager *and one tinker for rava/trisk*
with all the mana artifacts its not that hard to cast tezz or hardcast trink, (with the drum/mox opal and stuff~)
also i didnt see anyone mentioning krak-klan shaman to hate your friend's elves or goblins
also no blinkmoth nexus in the primer? it can turn itself to artifact when needed, a ''flash'' blocker or a bonus ornithopter to carry the plating or counters to victory
Its hard to have a "casual" primer, we did the best (I speak for the rest of the writers for the primer section). I mean we try not to have a legacy-esque deck with subpar choices
unfortunately, casual is a broad term and you define it like some people and other players define it differently.
I do believe I mention some decent burn removal in the primer, and blinkmoth nexus was also mention (I personally don't like it, but most do)
I agree with this statement. I do like the Phyrexian one a lot more than the Mirran one, but I think I'll stick with my "What Color Would You Like Me To Beat You With Today?" and "T That Ass" shirts.
Or he could cut 2 Pest and 2 Myr Enforcer for 4 Atog?
atog is a terrible replacement just because i worry for the color fixing abilities of his deck. I'd go for a more simpler pure aggro approach and screw the combo part
What do you all think of Genesis Chamber? I run it in my artifact deck as a 2x-4x depending on what I've sideboarded in. It combos beautifully. It gives you tokens to trigger affinity/metalcraft, fuel Broodstar/Master of Etherium and as fodder for Arcbound Ravager. It gives your opponents tokens, too, which between Disciple of the Vault and Arcbound Crusher is just as useful (keep in mind that the disciple triggers off artifacts that ANYONE controls, not just you, so using 1/1 artifact tokens as chumps/throwaways still hurts).
Tezzeret the seeker – Planeswalker for artifacts. It leans towards the budget/fun side because the cost is simply too expensive for it to be aggro. But it does tutor artifacts and untaps artifacts. Ok sideboard material
Tezzeret, agent of bolas - 4 cmc and colors that work with colors already focused in this deck, this card is a blast. Aside from the no artifact type it readily makes up for that with diverse usage. It can scry 4 for an artifact once a turn or it can turn a memnite to a 5/5 artifact critter and the last ability is a disciple esque ability forcing your opponent to lose life equal to the number of artifacts x2 you have, it also lets you gain that much life. Sweet huh?
Despite what people say, I actually prefer the original Tezzeret to AoB, and I wholly disagree with the OP's comment that Tezzeret 1.0 is "subpar/debatable." Tezzeret 1.0 is more versatile. With artifact lands, his +1 is better than Garruk Wildspeaker's, and he tutors directly onto the battlefield unlike 2.0's Ancient Stirrings ability. Tezzeret 1.0 is like an Oracle of Mul Daya, a Garruk Wildspeaker, a double Master Transmuter, infinite Trinket Mages that play onto the battlefield...and that's not even counting his ult, all for more starting loyalty and an easier mana base. Saying Tezz1.0 is "subpar/debatable" in aggro is like saying all the above cards are subpar/debatable in aggro and certainly establishes AoB as subpar as well.
What do you all think of Genesis Chamber? I run it in my artifact deck as a 2x-4x depending on what I've sideboarded in. It combos beautifully. It gives you tokens to trigger affinity/metalcraft, fuel Broodstar/Master of Etherium and as fodder for Arcbound Ravager. It gives your opponents tokens, too, which between Disciple of the Vault and Arcbound Crusher is just as useful (keep in mind that the disciple triggers off artifacts that ANYONE controls, not just you, so using 1/1 artifact tokens as chumps/throwaways still hurts).
Despite what people say, I actually prefer the original Tezzeret to AoB, and I wholly disagree with the OP's comment that Tezzeret 1.0 is for fun and noncompetitive environments only. Tezzeret 1.0 is simply more versatile. With artifact lands, his +1 is better than Garruk Wildspeaker's, and he tutors directly onto the battlefield unlike 2.0's Ancient Stirrings ability. Tezzeret 1.0 is like an Oracle of Mul Daya, a Garruk Wildspeaker, a double Master Transmuter, infinite Trinket Mages that play onto the battlefield...and that's not even counting his ult, all for more starting loyalty and an easier mana base. Saying Tezz1.0 is "subpar/debatable" in aggro is like saying all the above cards are subpar/debatable in aggro and certainly establishes AoB as subpar as well.
If your opponent runs aggro/weenies then its pretty much stalemate. Helping out your opponents in any way is not a good idea, if you want something for fodder/protection you could run thopter foundry i've heard some affinity players testing this out with good results.
I'l address cards you list individually
Darksteel forge - too slow, games already over by the time this hits the field
Nev disk - why? Ravager does the same thing except quicker and the counter can be transferred to another creature
Transmuter/fabricate/tinker - these cards are combo oriented, this deck has a combo but it usually revolves around ravager/disciple, the concept of this deck is that you wouldn't have to mulligan, imagine drawing darksteel forge on t1...It's useless unless you have transmuter and that takes time too.
concerning tezz 1.0 - 5 cmc really really sucks, if it was 4 like 2.0 it wouldnt be so bad. Also the fact that its UU hurts too, broodstar fell out of grace one reason being the casting cost, in a multicolor deck this is not something good. Likewise with all the other cards suggested above i'd like to point out that drawing this card t1/t2 really sucks and does help out at all.
The cards you suggest leads me to believe your games go way longer then they should, affinity is not about taking your time and playing darksteel forge, its about slamming them turn 3 with a 7/7 MoE or a 8/2 ornithopter+cranial platting combo. If your games go any more then 5 due to you drawing the wrong cards at the wrong time then something is off
If your opponent runs aggro/weenies then its pretty much stalemate. Helping out your opponents in any way is not a good idea, if you want something for fodder/protection you could run thopter foundry i've heard some affinity players testing this out with good results.
I'l address cards you list individually
Darksteel forge - too slow, games already over by the time this hits the field
Nev disk - why? Ravager does the same thing except quicker and the counter can be transferred to another creature
Nev's disk does NOT do the same thing. Nev's disk wipes the board, and with forge out, it does it every turn at no cost to you.
Transmuter/fabricate/tinker - these cards are combo oriented, this deck has a combo but it usually revolves around ravager/disciple, the concept of this deck is that you wouldn't have to mulligan, imagine drawing darksteel forge on t1...It's useless unless you have transmuter and that takes time too.
Perhaps they're not for your deck specifically, then, if you want to go full-on aggro. I was more proposing a general combo to the thread. At any rate, it's usually good to have at least some combo just because it opens up more wincons and more keepable hands. So you're going up against mono white and your opponent paths/chumps/ousts your MoEs/Ravagers after you've just sacced a buttload of artifacts and hurt yourself with your own disciple thanks to their Leyline of Sanctity. What now?
concerning tezz 1.0 - 5 cmc really really sucks, if it was 4 like 2.0 it wouldnt be so bad. Also the fact that its UU hurts too, broodstar fell out of grace one reason being the casting cost, in a multicolor deck this is not something good. Likewise with all the other cards suggested above i'd like to point out that drawing this card t1/t2 really sucks and does help out at all.
Broodstar fell out of grace because it was too expensive for what it did, yes, and it wasn't an artifact. But Broodstar's mana cost was overshot by a lot since it was superseded by ornithopter + plating for no extra abilities. Tezz2.0 is much more versatile than 1.0 and only 1 colorless more.
The cards you suggest leads me to believe your games go way longer then they should, affinity is not about taking your time and playing darksteel forge, its about slamming them turn 3 with a 7/7 MoE or a 8/2 ornithopter+cranial platting combo. If your games go any more then 5 due to you drawing the wrong cards at the wrong time then something is off
If my games go any more than 5, it's because my opponent has answers to a 7/7 MoE and an 8/2 ornithopter+plating and I need another option. Good news is, my deck has those options.
you mean to tell me your opponents manage to find an answer to a creature that big in that short amount of time? i could understand removal but thats why etched champion exists, i mean theres not much your opponents can do unless they have a vintage combo deck, or they have some serious artifact hate (which will not get through to EC)
Im not quite sure what your deck is, might want to post it but from what you are telling me you are playing some sort of lockdown control affinity which isn't exactly viable, granted this isn't in the legacy forum but affinity is very clear cut in terms of what goes in and what stays out in all my 3 years of playing this deck i've never seen anyone with a 4 cmc or greater card being played in this deck nor have i seen combo cards like tinker. The only creatures that are non-artifacts are disciple and even then those aren't used in every game i mean leyline of sanctity is practically useless and a waste of space against affinity because disciple/ravager isn't always needed.
As for mana accel why run engineer when you have mox opal/springleaf drum, both are artifacts and do not require an extra time to tap
like i said before, post a decklist and we can have others discuss it if you like
somber hoverguard is practically useless now, there are many options to consider, check the usual card choice sections for ideas
If M.o.E is getting to expensive for you then consider broodstar the flying equivalent. Its around $1 or for even cheaper options consider cranial platting
Do remember that control isn't the overall theme of this deck, this is suppose to be fast paced aggro which ends with a combo, storage matrix and icy manipulator are at 3 and 4 cmc respectively, both relatively high in this deck.
Also consider adding 1-2 more lands. 16 is really cutting it low here
I was thinking of taking out the hoverguards for galvanic blasts and the storage matrix for a few tree of tales. Like you pointed out, there are times when I don't get the land I need. Should I opt for the tree of tales or opt for basic lands now? I do have the cranial platings in my deck though. Thanks for the feedback. Hopefully my deck runs smoothly enough when I get to play it.
*EDIT* Also, would skeleton shard be worth purchasing for this deck?
Memnite is good replacement for the hoverguards
another artifact land is good, its your choice on which one which is largely based on your SB if you have one. Max land should be 18-19, lowest should be 17
completely missed the platings
Skeleton shard isn't really worth it, the 3 cmc hurts and it would be better to include some more aggro cards in
Pretty much everything is a common besides Arcbound Ravager, who costs about $18 each. He can be replaced by Atog.
Also, please do a search before posting next time:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=277343&
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=275410
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=260079
Also, you can take a look at pauper lists (All common lists)
http://forums.pdcmagic.com/viewtopic.php?t=51
Cranial Plating is banned in pauper, but you won't have that limitation.
Ornithopters, Arcbound workers, Frogmites, somber Hoverguard
You'll still have Cranial Plating and fling. Memnites are around $3 if you want to splurge a little.
Your card draw and mana fixing will be ok. Aether Spellbomb, Cromatic Sphere, Thoughtcast. All cheap.
4 Memnite
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer
4 Disciple of the Vault
2 Atog
4 Chromatic Star
3 Counterspell
3 Thoughtcast
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Great Furnace
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Glimmervoid
Meh. K, so Glimmervoid is out of your price range. Suitable replacement, I suppose, would just be probably 2 swamps, 2 islands. Or 2 islands, 1 swamp, 1 mountain. W/e. Hard to screw up affinity, frankly.
CG
4x Ornithopter
4x Arcbound Worker
4x Disciple of the Vault
4x Frogmite
4x Master of Etherium
4x Myr Enforcer
4x Galvanic Blast
4x Thoughtcast
Artifacts
4x Cranial Plating
4x Springleaf Drum
Lands
4x Seat of the Synod
4x Vault of Whispers
4x Darksteel Citadel
4x Great Furnace
1x Ancient Den
3x Glimmervoid
Something like that might work for budget purposes. If you look hard enough you can easily find Master of Etherium for $3.00 (seriously, it keeps getting reprinted over and over, Affinity isn't T1 in Legacy and it's not even in standard anymore). You should also be able to find Glimmervoid cheap (like under $3.00 cheap). Everything else is a common/uncommon that should be fairly easy to aquire.
Edit: If you find that the Disciple of the Vault is really lacking here you could try and slot in Atog (probably over 2-4x Galvanic Blast to keep the colour in the deck to a minimum.
Also, if you want to play a slightly more broken version, slot in 4x Skullclamp instead of 4x Thoughtcast and in this instance use 3-4x Atog over 3-4x Galvanic Blast. Skullclamp can be found for $2.00-$3.00 but isn't Legacy legal and, frankly, some people will stop playing if you drop them down on the table.
Legacy:
WGMaverickWG
UMerfolkU
WStaxW
XRaffinityX
BRGoblins RB
RBUTESRBU
UGW Countersliver UGW
UB Dredge UB
U W CounterThopter U W
"Casual:"
BVampiresB
WMWCW
GElfdraziG
WWhite WeenieW
BWClericsBW
UGMadnessUG
UBPsychatogUB
GWAstral SlideGW
Yea, I had the same problem at first being a student without a job. I was able to get my deck up for less than 25 dollars (US) i think and that's buying all the cards I needed. Grant it some cards will bring up your cost like arcbound ravager and Master of Etherium. M.o.E is less than 5 dollars (US) at where I shop. My deck is posted in this thread though it's still getting pointers from the community :).
Oh, I completely forgot memnite. Guess i should stop shopping for the broodstar but I do like his evasion. I don't have a sideboard at the moment since I'm not too sure what would fit in it. Adding some artifacts lands as I type this. Thanks for all the feedback. I'll report a new deck list when I can.
Good legacy legal deck man. I might post this as an example deck
hows the 20 land working for you? I always though that 20 is cutting it a little high
I personally prefer another color fixer (chromatic sphere) as oppose to burn. But at least Galvanic blast doesn't require a sacrifice
i also have tezzeret to tutor ravager *and one tinker for rava/trisk*
with all the mana artifacts its not that hard to cast tezz or hardcast trink, (with the drum/mox opal and stuff~)
also i didnt see anyone mentioning krak-klan shaman to hate your friend's elves or goblins
also no blinkmoth nexus in the primer? it can turn itself to artifact when needed, a ''flash'' blocker or a bonus ornithopter to carry the plating or counters to victory
Δε φοβάμαι τίποτα...
Είμαι Άνεργος.
Grimstringer on Cockatrice, add me if you wanna
unfortunately, casual is a broad term and you define it like some people and other players define it differently.
I do believe I mention some decent burn removal in the primer, and blinkmoth nexus was also mention (I personally don't like it, but most do)
Why was Nexus mentioned but not Mishra's Factory?
most broken standard deck ever http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=268050
no, affinity is about keeping cards, not losing them. If you plan to sac all artifacts with ravager and disciple the game should be over.
Disciple only works well with ravagers and you don't have those, up your signal pest to 4 and MoE to 4 by switching out disciple.
You shouldnt have hard times with mill and control, affinity outspeeds and overwhelms both
Or he could cut 2 Pest and 2 Myr Enforcer for 4 Atog?
atog is a terrible replacement just because i worry for the color fixing abilities of his deck. I'd go for a more simpler pure aggro approach and screw the combo part
I also run Darksteel Forge and Nevinyrral's Disk. Once those two get out, the game's over. And it doesn't take that long, either, with all the ridiculous artifact manipulators out there--Master Transmuter, Fabricate (or its broken counterpart, Tinker), Tezzeret the Seeker, etc.
Despite what people say, I actually prefer the original Tezzeret to AoB, and I wholly disagree with the OP's comment that Tezzeret 1.0 is "subpar/debatable." Tezzeret 1.0 is more versatile. With artifact lands, his +1 is better than Garruk Wildspeaker's, and he tutors directly onto the battlefield unlike 2.0's Ancient Stirrings ability. Tezzeret 1.0 is like an Oracle of Mul Daya, a Garruk Wildspeaker, a double Master Transmuter, infinite Trinket Mages that play onto the battlefield...and that's not even counting his ult, all for more starting loyalty and an easier mana base. Saying Tezz1.0 is "subpar/debatable" in aggro is like saying all the above cards are subpar/debatable in aggro and certainly establishes AoB as subpar as well.
Legacy: GWR Enchantress <--That's my banner! (lol tinypic removed it)
Casual: WB [[Primer]]Clerics Tribal; BU Affinity
EDH: ...U [[Primer]]Arcum Dagsson; BG Legal Stax; B Illegal Stax
Proxy: .WX TriniStax
Other stuff: [[Official]]Shuffling, Truth + Maths
If your opponent runs aggro/weenies then its pretty much stalemate. Helping out your opponents in any way is not a good idea, if you want something for fodder/protection you could run thopter foundry i've heard some affinity players testing this out with good results.
I'l address cards you list individually
Darksteel forge - too slow, games already over by the time this hits the field
Nev disk - why? Ravager does the same thing except quicker and the counter can be transferred to another creature
Transmuter/fabricate/tinker - these cards are combo oriented, this deck has a combo but it usually revolves around ravager/disciple, the concept of this deck is that you wouldn't have to mulligan, imagine drawing darksteel forge on t1...It's useless unless you have transmuter and that takes time too.
concerning tezz 1.0 - 5 cmc really really sucks, if it was 4 like 2.0 it wouldnt be so bad. Also the fact that its UU hurts too, broodstar fell out of grace one reason being the casting cost, in a multicolor deck this is not something good. Likewise with all the other cards suggested above i'd like to point out that drawing this card t1/t2 really sucks and does help out at all.
The cards you suggest leads me to believe your games go way longer then they should, affinity is not about taking your time and playing darksteel forge, its about slamming them turn 3 with a 7/7 MoE or a 8/2 ornithopter+cranial platting combo. If your games go any more then 5 due to you drawing the wrong cards at the wrong time then something is off
Darksteel Forge doesn't take that long to get out on the field between Vedalken Engineer, Master Transmuter, and so forth. Turn 2 engineer, turn 3 transmuter, turn 4 forge, turn 5 Fabricate -> Nevinyrral's Disk and wipe the board forever.
Nev's disk does NOT do the same thing. Nev's disk wipes the board, and with forge out, it does it every turn at no cost to you.
Perhaps they're not for your deck specifically, then, if you want to go full-on aggro. I was more proposing a general combo to the thread. At any rate, it's usually good to have at least some combo just because it opens up more wincons and more keepable hands. So you're going up against mono white and your opponent paths/chumps/ousts your MoEs/Ravagers after you've just sacced a buttload of artifacts and hurt yourself with your own disciple thanks to their Leyline of Sanctity. What now?
Broodstar fell out of grace because it was too expensive for what it did, yes, and it wasn't an artifact. But Broodstar's mana cost was overshot by a lot since it was superseded by ornithopter + plating for no extra abilities. Tezz2.0 is much more versatile than 1.0 and only 1 colorless more.
If my games go any more than 5, it's because my opponent has answers to a 7/7 MoE and an 8/2 ornithopter+plating and I need another option. Good news is, my deck has those options.
Legacy: GWR Enchantress <--That's my banner! (lol tinypic removed it)
Casual: WB [[Primer]]Clerics Tribal; BU Affinity
EDH: ...U [[Primer]]Arcum Dagsson; BG Legal Stax; B Illegal Stax
Proxy: .WX TriniStax
Other stuff: [[Official]]Shuffling, Truth + Maths
Im not quite sure what your deck is, might want to post it but from what you are telling me you are playing some sort of lockdown control affinity which isn't exactly viable, granted this isn't in the legacy forum but affinity is very clear cut in terms of what goes in and what stays out in all my 3 years of playing this deck i've never seen anyone with a 4 cmc or greater card being played in this deck nor have i seen combo cards like tinker. The only creatures that are non-artifacts are disciple and even then those aren't used in every game i mean leyline of sanctity is practically useless and a waste of space against affinity because disciple/ravager isn't always needed.
As for mana accel why run engineer when you have mox opal/springleaf drum, both are artifacts and do not require an extra time to tap
like i said before, post a decklist and we can have others discuss it if you like