I am a little worried about the vulnerability of Dryad Arbor - my deck runs little enough land that while it hurts a bit to have my threats get bolted, it's crippling to have a land get bolted.
Winter Orb feels like a sideboard add for my deck, not something I'd main. Maybe it's a factor of my style of play, but I feel like given the choice between an attacker or Orb, I'd almost always favor the attacker, then by the time I'm out of aggro and I finally drop my Orb its impact is limited.
I know Bounty of the Hunt exiles its pitch, but itself it goes to the grave, and as such is a zero-mana-cost booster that adds an instant to graveyard and brings my hand closer to Lupine-active zero.
I think a large part of my strategy on my posted-above build is to have my T2-landing Lupine be swinging on T3, or my T2-landed Grim Flayer swinging with Delirium on T3. I'm not trying to be slower here - I want my T3 swing to be devastating. Bounty gets me there - it lets me rid my hand of a redundant Flayer or Lotleth to aid in my hellbent ways. Urza's Bauble helps here too - in some ways it's better than an instacantrip like Street Wraith or Gitaxian Probe because while it aids Delirium as soon as I want it to, it doesn't give me that card that I might not be able to play this turn until after I've already gotten in the Lupine swing.
That's part of my concern with the too-many-2-drops problem - that if my hand has 3 2-drops in my first 9-10 cards I'm not hellbent on T3, and Bounty alleviates that (and puts an instant in my graveyard for no mana, which helps if I didn't draw a Mutagenic Growth). The other modern Giant Growths other than Mutagenic Growth cost mana, and that pesky costing mana slows their evacuation from my hand.
I think you're shortselling Urza's Bauble as 'junk' here. I mean, Mishra's Bauble has recently become a $20+ uncommon simply for doing effectively the same thing Urza's Bauble does here, but in modern.
So, Greenbelt Rampager would be a decent card if we had energy, but I don't think we have energy. Are there any energy cards that are usable in stompy?
EDIT: The point is to treat it more as a 2-drop that would normally come down on turn 2. It might replace any 2-drops that we're currently using, e.g. Talara's Battalion for me. The energy needs are more difficult to meet than Battalion's Storm requirement, but on the upside it can eventually get there itself by generating energy, albeit at a terrible mana cost. As for boltproof vs Trample, I think I prefer boltproof. We're usually wide enough that we don't need to depend on Trample to push damage through.
even if u ignore the energy part this still has potential. 3 mana spent whenever u have it available over the course of however many turns. and definitely ways to power this out T1. Great synergy with Experiment One.
Yeah, just not sure that G+G+G for a 3/4 is worth it, which is the only way it would work if we don't have viable energy producers. Sure you can power it out T1, but why not use all that mana to land 3 one-drops (and probably twice the total power)?
Also I've thusfar been pretty bearish against E1, and around 2 of these Elephants wouldn't be enough to convince me to run it. (I don't think I can bring myself to run a set of Elephants.)
Hey folks, so I've been wanting to use Kird Apes for a while now. Problem is they're not Green. But then they printed Narnam Renegade, which is not just green but even comes with Deathtouch. So now the problem is that I have nothing that really leaves play except from dying, and I don't want to throw my 2/2s into opposing 5/5s just to make another card playable. So has anyone made Narnam work? Is anyone else even interested? Anything else from recent sets that have made your Stompy lists or even pique your interest? This might just be a fancy way of saying "bump."
We have a lot of Revolt triggers. Quirion Ranger boinces a land, Scythe Tiger and Rogue Elephant sac a land. If you run any of the vanishing/fading creatures then they could be sacced. I think there's plenty, but then the question is if it's worth it to trigger Revolt later in the game for Narnam Renegade instead of using another one mana creature that won't require Revolt?
Good point, I totally forgot about Quirion Rangers, which I run a full set of. I'm not so bullish on the sac-land or fading creatures though, so I don't run them.
As I've mentioned I'm a bit unhappy about the 1-toughness guys in the deck. I run full sets of Jungle Lion and Dryad Militant. Not only are they easy to kill, they can't be protected by Pendlehaven. Those would be on the chopping block for Narnam if it could be made to work. I note that the previously-mentioned Greenbelt Rampager could also give Revolt for Narnam. Makes me rethink my stance on Rampager.
EDIT: maybe not. I just realized that Vapor Snags, Snaps, etc. would make us repay a lot to recast. Ugh.
For me, Revolt and Delirium have each caused a lot of re-evaluating the viability of fetchlands in Stompy-style builds.
The OP mentions Seal of Strength and Briar Shield - each is basically a Giant Growth that trades off instant speed for being better for Revolt and Delirium support.
As I discussed above (in a time when I was working towards Delirium, but the discussion works for Revolt as well) Baubles (Urza's Bauble, Mishra's Bauble) cost nothing, fill your graveyard, cause a permanent to leave the battlefield, really only at cost of delaying replacing themselves by a turn.
Increasing deck size is a means of controlling individual card power by introducing randomness. If adding 8 baubles to a deck simply decreased effective deck size to 52 cards, every competitive deck would do so. On the contrary, no competitive eternal decks run baubles. Why?
Turns out the main downside of Baubles is that they make mulliganing very difficult. If you draw a hand with 0 land and three Baubles, what does that mean? Does it mean you'll be landscrewed for the first five turns of the game? Does it mean that three land are waiting at the top? You don't know.
The pump enchantments are a little more interesting. We aren't so much losing instant-speed effects (you can sac an enchantment at instant speed) as we are losing some element of surprise, but that said we have so much surprise pump that telegraphing a Seal or Shield is likely not a huge deal.
If I were to go fetches, as I've pondered before on this thread, I might just go nuts and include Taigas, actual Kird Apes, etc. So far I've tried keeping it mono-green for flavor though. What other Revolt cards are you considering?
2-drops are a pretty serious investment in lowland versions, so synergy with other 2-drops is not what I'm going for. Liberator also loses Trample. Avatar is mildly interesting because we already run Pit-Skulk, but Battalion fits my build better than either Liberator or Avatar. Thanks for the ideas though!
Yeh, sometimes I get my Modern Stompy and Legacy Casual Lowland Stompy crossed up (and there is a lot of crossover). Avatar seems to be a nearly universal include in Modern Stompy, seemingly not so much Legacy.
Another great 2-drop when you don't need to rely much on lands: Rhonas's Last Stand
Not sure it's enough to kick Talara's Battalion out of my deck, but it's really tempting. 5 power and boltproof, but loses Trample. Not quite sure how to weigh the relative downsides yet.
From Modern Horizons, we have as possible additions:
Crashing Footfalls: 8 power for 1 mana may sound good, but it doesn't drop until turn 5 at the earliest, and you're not putting any pressure on your opponent the turn you cast it. Also, unlike creatures with suspend, the tokens don't have haste.
Collector Ouphe: Null Rod that swings for 2. There's lots of terrifying artifacts in Legacy, so having it in your sideboard is never a bad idea.
Elvish Fury: By the time you can pay the buyback, your opponent should be dead.
Force of Vigor: Another sideboard card, this one lets you pitch to kill off a potential artifact or enchantment based combo win.
Hexdrinker: It's is a strictly better Mtenda Lions or Jungle Lion. Pumping 3 mana into it to make it a 4/4 isn't inconceivable, either.
Saddled Rimestag: It could attack as a 4/4 on turn 3, but it's probably not going to have that much oomph on later turns.
Savage Swipe: A lot of creatures have 2 power, and this is strictly better than Prey Upon.
Scale Up: Holy crap. 6/4 for 1 mana. Holy crap. 4-of auto-include, better than probably every other pump spell except Rancor.
Treetop Ambusher: The more I think about it, the more I like it. It's a pump spell with buyback that also swings for 2 and can get in for 3 on an empty board. It also avoids board wipes if you're dashing it.
Scale Up makes the creature a 6/4 at sorcery speed for one mana.
Everything this deck plays is at least a 2/1. Which is to say Might of Old Krosa already did that better, in addition to serving duty as an instant trick in a pinch.
Scale Up is bad unless we’re running 0-costers-with-evasion like Birds of Paradise.
Eh, I guess legacy stompy runs Quirion Rangers. Even still, +5/+3 at sorcery speed on a creature with no evasion nor trample... is probably worse than a card that can be +4/+4 at sorcery speed or +2/+2 at instant speed as needed.
I just came here to post about Hexdrinker and Scale Up.
I'm really happy about Scale Up. We actually have plenty of evasion. Rancor gives Trample, Skarrgan Pit-Skulk has size-based evasion, and we have fliers like Signal Pest, Ledgewalker, and Vault Skirge.
As for size considerations, Scale Up pumps 13 creatures (in my build) with +5 power: Arbor, Ranger, Skirge, and Pit-Skulk. As an added bonus, Pendlehaven stacks with Hexdrinker on the first 9 of these.
I do worry that Scale Up is Sorcery speed, and along with Rancor allows for more interaction from the opponent.
General notes: Land Grant is pretty silly now that I'm not running Battalion. I guess it still untaps Sentinels.
If we go with fetches to trigger Revolt, we could go nuts with a Savannah and a Taiga and replace the 2/2 Golems with Wild Nacatls.
Maybeboard notes: Memnite is free, Windswept Heath resets the topdeck for Sylvan Library, Battalion is just good with Land Grant and Mutagenic, Heart of Kiran can swing through the air when the ground gets gummed up, Might of Old Krosa is still a solid pump spell, and the other evasive options I mentioned work great with Scale Up.
Replies to recent comments:
If I were to add a 2-drop creature, Rhonas' Last Stand is really spicy, but like a lot of the bigger creatures it doesn't combine well with Scale Up.
This deck is all about tempo and early aggression, and Old Growth Dryads gives away that advantage. I'd sooner run Rogue Elephant.
I'm gonna baby step into these hexdrinkers, first because they're too expensive (money) and secondly because they still have 1 toughness and take a bunch of mana to be boltproof.
I expect Savage Swipe to be at least as impactful as Scale Up in the early turns that we like to play in, so I'm going to try some of those.
However, I'm now at 9 sorcery-speed pump spells, so I'm adding some Ranger's Guile for protection against non-toughness-based removal.
Vines takes two mana to, as the kids don't say, attac and protec. It's a great card, but I'm not sure about using it in a lowland build. Blossoming Defense is the right answer though. I keep thinking Ranger's Guile because of Pauper. Thanks for the catch! I'll go ahead and change that.
Vines takes two mana to, as the kids don't say, attac and protec. It's a great card, but I'm not sure about using it in a lowland build. Blossoming Defense is the right answer though. I keep thinking Ranger's Guile because of Pauper. Thanks for the catch! I'll go ahead and change that.
Vines is pretty versatile because it isn't actually hexproof. You can thwart your opponent's plans with it which can be really key and has huge surprise factor against anyone who doesn't know how it works.
Warriors' Lesson is underrated. Drawing 2 cards is generally going to be better than 4 damage from a pump spell.
Hexdrinker, Blossoming and Rhonas are all new cards I am testing. Rhona's seems worth at least 2-3 copies as its pretty great when its the last card out of your hand or when your 2 mana is sourced from a QRanger.
Blossoming is the one I most skeptical about. In general I am distrustful of pump spells as they are prone to getting your 2 for 1'd. It blows out a combat step kill spell in game 1 but in game 2 they will just play their removal during their mainphase instead making this card much less impressive. I suppose it ends up being worth 2 damage either way. Instant speed combat tricks also somewhat disagree with playing Hexdrinker who strongly encourages you to play tap-out magic. Part of me wants to cut all 4 and replace them with 3 Winter Orb and an 11th land.
I had the thought the other day to cut Dryad Militant entirely so that Become Immense is more playable.
I am a little worried about the vulnerability of Dryad Arbor - my deck runs little enough land that while it hurts a bit to have my threats get bolted, it's crippling to have a land get bolted.
Winter Orb feels like a sideboard add for my deck, not something I'd main. Maybe it's a factor of my style of play, but I feel like given the choice between an attacker or Orb, I'd almost always favor the attacker, then by the time I'm out of aggro and I finally drop my Orb its impact is limited.
I know Bounty of the Hunt exiles its pitch, but itself it goes to the grave, and as such is a zero-mana-cost booster that adds an instant to graveyard and brings my hand closer to Lupine-active zero.
I think a large part of my strategy on my posted-above build is to have my T2-landing Lupine be swinging on T3, or my T2-landed Grim Flayer swinging with Delirium on T3. I'm not trying to be slower here - I want my T3 swing to be devastating. Bounty gets me there - it lets me rid my hand of a redundant Flayer or Lotleth to aid in my hellbent ways. Urza's Bauble helps here too - in some ways it's better than an instacantrip like Street Wraith or Gitaxian Probe because while it aids Delirium as soon as I want it to, it doesn't give me that card that I might not be able to play this turn until after I've already gotten in the Lupine swing.
That's part of my concern with the too-many-2-drops problem - that if my hand has 3 2-drops in my first 9-10 cards I'm not hellbent on T3, and Bounty alleviates that (and puts an instant in my graveyard for no mana, which helps if I didn't draw a Mutagenic Growth). The other modern Giant Growths other than Mutagenic Growth cost mana, and that pesky costing mana slows their evacuation from my hand.
I think you're shortselling Urza's Bauble as 'junk' here. I mean, Mishra's Bauble has recently become a $20+ uncommon simply for doing effectively the same thing Urza's Bauble does here, but in modern.
EDIT: The point is to treat it more as a 2-drop that would normally come down on turn 2. It might replace any 2-drops that we're currently using, e.g. Talara's Battalion for me. The energy needs are more difficult to meet than Battalion's Storm requirement, but on the upside it can eventually get there itself by generating energy, albeit at a terrible mana cost. As for boltproof vs Trample, I think I prefer boltproof. We're usually wide enough that we don't need to depend on Trample to push damage through.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
Also I've thusfar been pretty bearish against E1, and around 2 of these Elephants wouldn't be enough to convince me to run it. (I don't think I can bring myself to run a set of Elephants.)
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
As I've mentioned I'm a bit unhappy about the 1-toughness guys in the deck. I run full sets of Jungle Lion and Dryad Militant. Not only are they easy to kill, they can't be protected by Pendlehaven. Those would be on the chopping block for Narnam if it could be made to work. I note that the previously-mentioned Greenbelt Rampager could also give Revolt for Narnam. Makes me rethink my stance on Rampager.
EDIT: maybe not. I just realized that Vapor Snags, Snaps, etc. would make us repay a lot to recast. Ugh.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
The OP mentions Seal of Strength and Briar Shield - each is basically a Giant Growth that trades off instant speed for being better for Revolt and Delirium support.
As I discussed above (in a time when I was working towards Delirium, but the discussion works for Revolt as well) Baubles (Urza's Bauble, Mishra's Bauble) cost nothing, fill your graveyard, cause a permanent to leave the battlefield, really only at cost of delaying replacing themselves by a turn.
Turns out the main downside of Baubles is that they make mulliganing very difficult. If you draw a hand with 0 land and three Baubles, what does that mean? Does it mean you'll be landscrewed for the first five turns of the game? Does it mean that three land are waiting at the top? You don't know.
The pump enchantments are a little more interesting. We aren't so much losing instant-speed effects (you can sac an enchantment at instant speed) as we are losing some element of surprise, but that said we have so much surprise pump that telegraphing a Seal or Shield is likely not a huge deal.
If I were to go fetches, as I've pondered before on this thread, I might just go nuts and include Taigas, actual Kird Apes, etc. So far I've tried keeping it mono-green for flavor though. What other Revolt cards are you considering?
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
It's not quite Stompy, but I've been working towards a revolt-based aggro deck in a thread here: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/771758-revolt-superion#c5
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
Not sure it's enough to kick Talara's Battalion out of my deck, but it's really tempting. 5 power and boltproof, but loses Trample. Not quite sure how to weigh the relative downsides yet.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
I was just wondering if there have been any new developments or contributions to the deck since Hour of Devastation released?
thanks
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=4557651&postcount=1
TheWarden's Creative Commons Music Pick Project (Retired):
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=336498
Mana:
10Forest
4Elvish Spirit Guide
4Land Grant
Artifacts:
4Winter Orb
Enchantments:
4Bequeathal
4Rancor
Instants:
4Bounty Of The Hunt
4Giant Growth
3Berserk
Creatures:
3Rogue Elephant
4Jungle Lion
4Mtenda Lion
4Quirion Ranger
4Vine Dryad
Any advise how to improve with newer cards?
Without going to specialized versions (eg delurium, +1/+1, revolt) here are a couple of suggestions:
Replace your 2/1 1 drops with:
Nettle Sentinel
Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
Dryad Militant
For 2 drops Tarmogoyf is great of you have the budget, if not, then Strangeroot Geist is great in my experience.
You may also want Might of Old Krosa instead of Giant growth, it looks like you are gunning for the quick Berserk win.
You can also substitute Skullclamp for some of the Bequeathal, being wary that it does not help the pitch spells.
Everything this deck plays is at least a 2/1. Which is to say Might of Old Krosa already did that better, in addition to serving duty as an instant trick in a pinch.
Scale Up is bad unless we’re running 0-costers-with-evasion like Birds of Paradise.
Eh, I guess legacy stompy runs Quirion Rangers. Even still, +5/+3 at sorcery speed on a creature with no evasion nor trample... is probably worse than a card that can be +4/+4 at sorcery speed or +2/+2 at instant speed as needed.
I'm really happy about Scale Up. We actually have plenty of evasion. Rancor gives Trample, Skarrgan Pit-Skulk has size-based evasion, and we have fliers like Signal Pest, Ledgewalker, and Vault Skirge.
As for size considerations, Scale Up pumps 13 creatures (in my build) with +5 power: Arbor, Ranger, Skirge, and Pit-Skulk. As an added bonus, Pendlehaven stacks with Hexdrinker on the first 9 of these.
I do worry that Scale Up is Sorcery speed, and along with Rancor allows for more interaction from the opponent.
My current potential list needs two cuts
4x Rancor (a25)
2x Sylvan Library (ema)
2x Winter Orb (ema)
4x Groundswell (ddp)
4x Mutagenic Growth (mm2)
4x Vault Skirge (nph)
1x Dryad Arbor (fut)
1x Pendelhaven (tsb)
4x Land Grant (mmq)
4x Quirion Ranger (vis)
4x Elvish Spirit Guide (all)
4x Skarrgan Pit-Skulk (gk2)
8x Snow-Covered Forest (mh1) 254
4x Scale Up (mh1)
4x Hexdrinker (mh1)
4x Icehide Golem (mh1)
1x Memnite (som) `Maybeboard`
1x Windswept Heath (ktk) `Maybeboard`
1x Talara's Battalion (ddu) `Maybeboard`
1x Heart of Kiran (aer) `Maybeboard`
1x Silhana Ledgewalker (pca) `Maybeboard`
1x Might of Old Krosa (mm3) `Maybeboard`
1x Signal Pest (mbs) `Maybeboard`
General notes: Land Grant is pretty silly now that I'm not running Battalion. I guess it still untaps Sentinels.
If we go with fetches to trigger Revolt, we could go nuts with a Savannah and a Taiga and replace the 2/2 Golems with Wild Nacatls.
Maybeboard notes: Memnite is free, Windswept Heath resets the topdeck for Sylvan Library, Battalion is just good with Land Grant and Mutagenic, Heart of Kiran can swing through the air when the ground gets gummed up, Might of Old Krosa is still a solid pump spell, and the other evasive options I mentioned work great with Scale Up.
Replies to recent comments:
If I were to add a 2-drop creature, Rhonas' Last Stand is really spicy, but like a lot of the bigger creatures it doesn't combine well with Scale Up.
This deck is all about tempo and early aggression, and Old Growth Dryads gives away that advantage. I'd sooner run Rogue Elephant.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
Updated list below.
I'm gonna baby step into these hexdrinkers, first because they're too expensive (money) and secondly because they still have 1 toughness and take a bunch of mana to be boltproof.
I expect Savage Swipe to be at least as impactful as Scale Up in the early turns that we like to play in, so I'm going to try some of those.
However, I'm now at 9 sorcery-speed pump spells, so I'm adding some Ranger's Guile for protection against non-toughness-based removal.
4x Vault Skirge (nph)
4x Icehide Golem (mh1)
4x Skarrgan Pit-Skulk (gk2)
2x Hexdrinker (mh1)
4x Rancor (a25) `Pump`
1x Become Immense (uma) `Pump`
3x Savage Swipe (mh1) `Pump`
2x Scale Up (mh1) `Pump`
4x Mutagenic Growth (mm2) `Pump`
2x Ranger's Guile (m15) `Pump`
2x Winter Orb (ema) `Utility`
1x Dryad Arbor (fut) `Mana`
1x Pendelhaven (tsb) `Mana`
4x Land Grant (mmq) `Mana`
4x Quirion Ranger (vis) `Mana`
4x Elvish Spirit Guide (all) `Mana`
8x Snow-Covered Forest (mh1) 254 `Mana`
1x Hunger of the Howlpack (cns) `Maybeboard`
1x Berserk (cn2) `Maybeboard`
1x Narnam Renegade (aer) `Maybeboard`
1x Greenwheel Liberator (aer) `Maybeboard`
1x Rhonas's Last Stand (hou) `Maybeboard` ^Getting,#2ccce4^
1x Might of Old Krosa (mm3) `Maybeboard`
1x Signal Pest (mbs) `Maybeboard`
1x Silhana Ledgewalker (pca) `Maybeboard`
1x Heart of Kiran (aer) `Maybeboard`
1x Talara's Battalion (ddu) `Maybeboard`
1x Windswept Heath (ktk) `Maybeboard`
1x Memnite (som) `Maybeboard`
2x Groundswell (ddp) `Maybeboard`
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
Vines is pretty versatile because it isn't actually hexproof. You can thwart your opponent's plans with it which can be really key and has huge surprise factor against anyone who doesn't know how it works.
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Dryad Militant
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Talara's Battalion
4 Hexdrinker
4 Rancor
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Warriors' Lesson
4 Blossoming Defense
10 Forest
4 Land Grant
2 Rhonas's Last Stand
Warriors' Lesson is underrated. Drawing 2 cards is generally going to be better than 4 damage from a pump spell.
Hexdrinker, Blossoming and Rhonas are all new cards I am testing. Rhona's seems worth at least 2-3 copies as its pretty great when its the last card out of your hand or when your 2 mana is sourced from a QRanger.
Blossoming is the one I most skeptical about. In general I am distrustful of pump spells as they are prone to getting your 2 for 1'd. It blows out a combat step kill spell in game 1 but in game 2 they will just play their removal during their mainphase instead making this card much less impressive. I suppose it ends up being worth 2 damage either way. Instant speed combat tricks also somewhat disagree with playing Hexdrinker who strongly encourages you to play tap-out magic. Part of me wants to cut all 4 and replace them with 3 Winter Orb and an 11th land.
I had the thought the other day to cut Dryad Militant entirely so that Become Immense is more playable.
Another take:
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Dryad Militant
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Talara's Battalion
4 Icehide Golem
4 Rancor
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Warriors' Lesson
11 Snow-Covered Forest
4 Land Grant
2 Rhonas's Last Stand
4 Tormod's Crypt
1 Winter Orb
4 Hidden Gibbons
3 Natural State
3 Blossoming Defense