I was about to post a primer on a mono green 1CMC deck, when i saw this. It is similar, but not exactly what I had in mind. I'll just paste what i posted in another thread, let me know what you think:
"Hello MTGS Community! I've recently been brewing a cute little deck that actually works pretty well. It basically consists of creatures and spells that cost G and Winter Orb. When i saw Winter Orb, i new i wanted to create a fun yet effective deck revolving around it. Unfortunately, the deck relies heavily on that card, and green doesn't have an artifact tutor, so you pretty much mulligan if you don't draw it immediately. Anyway, here's what i've come up with so far:
Your deck looks so much like Xls, it's a good thing you posted here.
Winter Orb is a great card, but don't forget that multiples are redundant. People don't generally run more than 3 in the maindeck. Basing your entire strategy around it is probably not the most effective way to do it. Many decks aren't affected so much by it, or will just destroy it. If you change your mindset to "be aggressive, then slow them down", then you're on the right track.
Magus of the Vineyard seems really bad in this deck. You often won't have a use for the mana he gives you, and he also adds mana for your opponent (colourless mana is still 2 they can use).
You should take a look at the other creatures this deck usually runs and how aggressive they are. You might see many of your choices as sub-optimal.
As for Meekstone, I once made a very effective deck with it and Flanking Knights. Almost all knights are 2/2 and have flanking or first strike, making them excellent candidates for Meekstone. I suppose a more modern approach would be to use the Exalted Mechanic with Meekstone. Any temporary pump is very effective with it, actually.
Evening, guys. Longtime lurker, first time poster. I've been keeping an eye on making a Lowland Stompy variant for a while, and in the past few months a few cards have flashed past me for consideration that I'd like to hear from you more experienced LLS players whether you think there's any viability there.
I see some sets running Bequeathal for a little extra gas, and that makes me wonder if Warriors' Lesson might serve a similar purpose. This deck will likely be able to have two unblocked attackers get through in short order, and if/when it does, this serves up the same 2-card draw for G as Bequeathal does when it fires.
An oddball I'd been considering is Hero of Leina Tower - particularly in builds where you have mana-free spells like Mutagenic Growth and Bounty of the Hunt (Invigorate?) targetting your attacking creatures... with the quick excess mana you may have from Elves+Quirion, I could see a T3 or 4 attacking Hero getting huge and staying (somewhat) huge. On the Heroic tip, Heroic countergaining 1-drops like Favored Hoplite and Satyr Hoplite in the appropriate 2-color builds? (This synergizes a bit with the aforementioned Warriors' Lesson and Bounty of the Hunt, which can trigger multiple different heroic creatures in one casting).
Does the 8-pack of Slivers (Predatory Sliver and Muscle Sliver by the foursome) have any potential in this sort of deck? In GU builds, perhaps 12-sliver including 4 Galerider Slivers?
Life's Legacy - potential? I imagine that could be a 4-5-draw for 2 after the typical creature in this deck swings with Mutagenic/Bounty/Invigorate. Particularly good on a creature with Bequeathal, or a short-life-expectancy creature like Skyshroud Ridgeback.
First of all, welcome to MTGS! I hope to see you around more often!
You bring up a lot of great points and great cards! It goes to show how diverse this deck can be, with multiple splashing avenues and great combos.
Bequethal is, in my mind, completely unplayable. You have to play it on a creature and wait for it to die to get anything back, which means it's only replacing itself and the creature you lost, and never at a convenient time. Warrior's Lesson, on the other hand, seems much easier to play. You can definitely take advantage of it in the early game when you drop down multiple creatures and attack, and you get value right away for what you use. Sounds good to me!
XLS would have a hard time using Hero of Leina Tower to its full potential, because of the tight mana restrictions we put on ourselves. I can't see many situations where you be able to put more than 1-2 counters on it (if any). If you can't, it stays a very underwhelming 1/1. I think it's a risky inclusion, and probably wouldn't play it. The Hoplites are a bit interesting, it's too bad there are no green ones that don't require additional mana investment. Definitely not worth splashing for, but could be interesting if you already are.
For slivers, we're talking a totally different deck, here! U/G slivers I suppose could be done, but then you'd want to fill the deck with nothing but good 1-2 drop slivers, which I don't think there are enough of them in just those colours. In a LLS deck, you want your two-drops to be really significant. I don't think these slivers fit that role.
I have seen people put Burning-Tree Emissary to great use, as you have mentioned. I don't like the fact that it makes red mana, because of the low cost we have on spells, it makes our spells very colour intensive, which often means that unless you have the perfect RG to match it (or a battalion), that Red mana will be lost. Not the end of the world, but again, I want a 2-drop to bring me much more. I don't run any Llanowar Elves in my deck, as I really dislike all low-impact creatures that can't attack well. We play few lands because we want to be aggressive; Elves don't fit that bill. While it would be great to play Superion, I think his casting cost is too restrictive. I'm actually not sure if he can be cast using mana made from Elvish Spirit Guide; I don't think so, but I'll have to inform myself.
yes, a 2/2 for 1 mana is always welcome. I wouldn't expect to use his second ability anytime, though.
Drawing 2 cards for 2 mana at sorcery speed it pretty bland even for green, in my opinion. If it was instant, it would be great. You would really need to sacrifice something bigger in order to get your mana's worth (again, two mana is a big deal in this deck).
Thanks for the reply! Nice to hear encouraging comments on Warriors' Lesson.
My baseline template was built around some of this thread's earlier decks with 4x Llanowar and 4x QRanger, which leaves a little more capability for big-mana turns to feed Hero... I agree that in some of the more recent decks that have the 'elves don't stomp enough' philosophy you talk about, this is a lot less tenable. Was thinking of an ideal-draw scenario like T1 Llanowar, T2 Quirion+Hero, then T3 one could hit the Hero with a freecast Mutagenic / Invigorate / Bounty and be able to drop X=4 or 5 into the Heroic trigger, swing for 7 or 8 now and still have a 5/5 when all is done.
It's true that ESGs can't pay for Myr Superion. The Elves I was talking about that could push out a Superion (as the backup plan, BTE being the ideal method) were of the Llanowar variety or their lookalikes. Much like the scenario above, a T1 Forest + Llanowar Elves can be followed up by a T2 Quirion Ranger and then tap the Llanowar twice (via QRanger) for a Myr Superion.
My imagined (and admittedly likely unfeasable) LowlandSlivers deck concept was the old 4-grant 4-llanowar 4-Qranger manabase (maybe ESGs too, unsure)... with those 8 green +1/+1 slivers and Experiment One (I've found E1 works great with the MusclePredatory set - barring removal, each successive Sliver enters the battlefield at just the right P/T level to cause E1 to evolve). And the requisite instant P/T boosters of course.
The thought on Life's Legacy was that it would net a lot more than 2 cards... after attacking with something that got Mutagenic Growth'ed or Bounty of the Hunt'ed or Invigorate'd (or hopefully multiple of the above), firing a 2nd-main Life's Legacy to draw 4, 5, or more cards while that creature's power is at a temporary high, that didn't actually cost you mana-this-turn to get there so the 2-cost of LL doesn't conflict with having had to spend mana to get those temporary P/T boosts.
Oh I see! Having a base deck to work with would help us determine what exactly would be viable for your deck.
Early attempts with Elves I've found to be somewhat weaker, as they just don't have that individual strength that more aggressive decks do. There's a compromise to be made between efficiency and combo-power in the deck. Adding too many complex elements hurts the overall usability of the deck, as you can often end up with "dead cards" in hand or in play. Maybe there are enough cards to abuse now with Superion, BTE, Hero and Battalion for a deck like this to work. Do you have a list? I'd be curious to see what you've built.
On life's Legacy: This would of course be assuming the idea that you have more than 2 mana to spend, either with free pump or ramp spells. Again, with a deck geared like mine (built to run on 1-2 mana exclusively), this is entirely unthinkable. In a deck with Elves, you can conceivably reach 4 mana quite easily, making cards like Life's Legacy available to you. Again, the overall deck will be slower, but the promise of more gas and a better end-game might be worth it. You do need to want to sacrifice the creature you just spent pump spells on, though...
I updated my list and splashed white. It takes advantage of PoE and Loam Lion. However, i omitted Quirion Ranger, my forests are thin with splash and I dont want to keep taking shock damage from Temple Garden.
I really like the Favored Hoplite in this build. With all the spells your slapping on your guys, he is a good target, cuz he gets bigger, is immune to bigger enemy creatures, and forces your opponents removal on their turn.
Interesting take! I think that with 14 lands and 4 Birds, you can definitely include some powerful 2 drops. I would look to replace Scout, and possibly some of the white creatures to reduce the splash.
As much as Thicket is good, it doesn't work quite so well with Loam Lion, does it? It's those kinds of bad synergies that make me think splashing for situational cards kind of a bad idea. I appreciate that you're trying new creatures and builds. I think Green has the upper hand in speed and consistency. The auras might help your creatures survive combat a bit better, but they'll never be as fast nor offer the element of surprise that makes Green pump so attractive here. I like Path to Exile, and Loam Lion would definitely be playable in a deck with fetches and Savannahs. I'm not in love with the other white creatures, as they don't seem to make up for the weaknesses you create in your build. Favored Hoplite requires at least one trigger in order to compete (terrible top-deck), and Elite's drawback seems to be pretty steep. When you compare it with Rogue Elephant, it just looks bad.
I've also found that 2 Winter Orb is a good number. Drawing several was horrid, and it's not that great against every deck anyways, so I've been really satisfied with just two.
As for the "Hidden" cards, situational and reactive is not where you want to be. Perhaps some of them could be usable if you know what you're playing against. Gibbons could be worth a try.
Soldier of the Pantheon is almost maindeck worthy, imo. most 2/1s are, especially if they have no downsides. I'm starting to think maybe mono-White Stompy could start being a thing!
Both the changes you suggested would definitely be good ones. I feel like Cradle would make way more mana than you'd ever need. With 14 lands and 4 Land Grant already, I think you could afford to cut Llanowar Elves in favour of another 1-mana beater. Dryad Militant is a very popular choice for the archetype, and with good reason.
I find 4 Winter Orbs to be excessive. I'm oscillating between 2 and 3, myself.
Is wasteland really worth it? You'll hardly ever be able to use it for mana as almost all your spells use Green mana only, and destroying lands with lands is an unaffordable luxury for this kind of deck.
In a Legacy where the graveyard has never mattered more, Dryad Militant seems like a good ability to have on an excellent creature. The anti-synergy with Goyf is really unfortunate.
If you are going to run Goyf, I would at least switch the numbers of it and Kavu Predator.
Your list needs more creatures (good ones, not mana dorks). I would spend the last two slots on those. I can't help but insist that you probably don't need Llanowar Elves, and I'd much rather see a beater here, especially with your fixed mana base. While playing, I'm certain you'll notice many times where you just have way more mana than you'd ever know what to do with in a deck like this. With the ESGs, you have a total of 27 cards used to get you mana in some way. That's enormous. That's what many control decks would normally have. Something is not right, in my opinion.
Here to ask the question every deck is asking in late 2014 - can Treasure Cruise fit here? Or more generally, can Khans delve cards, be it Treasure Cruise for card reload, Hooting Mandrills for another big stomper at low actual-paid-mana cost, or Become Immense for a giant Giant Growth at similarly low actual mana cost... work in LLS?
My thinking is that versions of this deck that run a lot of 'free' cards like Land Grant, Invigorate, Mutagenic Growth, and Bounty of the Hunt can very quickly have quite a number of cards in the grave as Delve fuel (and the deck could be made to run forestfetches if further delve fuel was desired). Rogue Elephant builds also make delve fuel. (of course this flavor of deck would have to reject Dryad Militant).
Of course, too many Delve cards just get in each others' way - which is another reason why Bounty of the Hunt works well here, you could pitch excess green delve cards as Bounty cost.
I'm trying out two Mandrills in an LLS build I'm tweaking today, we'll see if they land in good time or not.
I don't see why not! Does blue have enough to offer to the deck to warrant the splash? It would feel a little silly just for Treasure Cruise (which might not always be playable).
When it comes to Hooting Mandrills or Become Immense, that's a different story. It would be easy to include either one of them as a 1-of, for sure. I don't think I would want more than that, though, as they're both awful in the early game and bad in multiples. Personally, I'm more inclined to think Become Immense has a better place in this deck.
KBH,
I think Root Maze and Winter Orb do different things. One slows down cards already in play, and the other slows down cards coming into play. Sure, against fetches it becomes the same thing, but why not just use Winter Orb and slow everything down evenly? The advantages of Root Maze are clear, however: It also affects artifacts and costs 1 mana less. Ups and downs, but I find Winter Orb to be easier to use and better against decks without fetches (obviously).
You've got a few too many tap effects in there that will become very redundant.
It's an interesting idea, 10-land Stax. I think there might be room for improvement here! I see no "Stompy" elements here, though. The only thing they have in common is the land count. I'd think of posting this in the main forum for help. Maybe even Legacy, if you take out Black Vise.
To preface this post, I am speaking purely from a competitive standpoint as a long time competitive legacy player. I know this is in casual but there isn't much discussion about XLS anywhere else.
This might sound blasphemous but I have been playing this archetype against tier 1 decks in legacy lately and I had a realization.
Land Grant is really bad. Before people go off on me, lets think about the good things about the card:
~Free spell to help cast Talara's Batallion or untap our Nettle Sentinels.
~Thins our deck of lands to let us draw more gas
And that is where that list ends. Lets look at the cons!
~If we keep a hand where Land Grant is our only "land" we autolose to our opponent going first and having discard (thoughtsieze) them going first or second with Force of Will and them going first with Daze/Spell Pierce.
~We ruin the surprise of our buff spells when we play this card. Particularly since I play the Berserk variety, a clever opponent can piece together my win and change their gameplan.
~we risk landfall for groundswell against counterspells. We literally reveal our hand, our opponent sees groundswell and then counters our grant, shutting us down.
Okay so lets address these one at a time.
~free spell for Talara: This is pretty cool but do we need Talara? My build is actually pretty heavily focused around her (mutagenics, grants, invigorates+berserk) but I could easily go for Rogue elephant instead.
~Thins our deck: Is this REALLY so relevant? what if we just replace these with 4 forests (or Wooded Foothills since they are so cheap now)If we imagine Land Grant as a virtual land, I think you will find the difference between having 12 lands left in a 52 card deck (turn 1) vs 13 lands left in a 53 card deck to be MINISCULE.
~Something to pitch to Vine Dryad or Bounty of the Hunt (given how bad these cards are, I am not sure this is considered a compliment/pro)
CONS:
~auto loss: solved immediately by cutting grants for forests or fetches (fetches seem only bad against stifle)
~surprise: solved by cutting grants for lands
~landfall: solved by cutting grants for lands
So while I think Talara's Battalion is one of the best things this deck can be doing, it doesn't seem worth it to keep playing grant to make her better and "thin" my deck when there are so many archetypes I can just lose to on turn 1 without a lucky land topdeck. I think the number of games I just get blown out FAR outweighs the games I lose because I drew a forest when I needed gas because my deck has ONE more forest(virtual or otherwise) in it.
Is there something I am missing here? Is Land Grant, from a competitive Legacy standpoint, as bad as I think it is? To me the downsides of running it vs 4 forests seem severe.
This was the list I was playing when I came to this conclusion. It is essentially designed to be able to consistently set up either pit skulk or batallion since those are the best 2 bodies the deck can muster imo.
10 Forest
4 Land Grant
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
I am also considering cutting Invigorate for something that DOESN'T suck when I don't have Berserk in hand. I will have to test and make sure the mana is okay for me to cast other buff spells.
By the way, I am pretty confident that Bounty of the Hunt and Vine Dryad are kinda horrible. The decks FUNDAMENTAL design is to have a threat dense deck full of gas. Why would you compromise this idea by playing cards that chew up valuable resources. The fact that I found myself most often pitching dead land grants to them is part of what drove me to reconsider Land Grant. If you MUST play one of them, the Bounty is much better, especially with Berserk.
Also, how do we feel about 1 of Revenge of the Hunted? It has done wonders for me in different versions of my list. I am also considering turning my Dryad Militants into Jungle Lions so I can run 2 Become Immense.
It's already been very well established in this thread that when competing against competitive Legacy decks, it's best to play without Land Grant. It is mostly a vestige from wanting Green cards in hand for Vine Dryad and Bounty of the Hunt (I'm talking more than a decade ago), as you mentioned. What was competitive then is no longer now. Vine Dryad is no longer playable, and I've personally found Mutagenic Growth to be a much better "free" spell than Bounty. Talara's Battalion benefits greatly from the Land Grant, but it certainly is not necessary like it used to be. It's perfectly fine to play Land Grant to stick with the "old school" Stompy list, but it certainly is not acceptable at higher levels.
I've been using a single Become Immense to good effect. It's sometimes dead though. Revenge of the Hunted would be even harder to cast, though it's more of a blowout.
I love card tags so much. I really, really do. Deck tags are great as well.
You want to be competitive? I'd say look for another deck. If you insist, Lands instead of Grant and having Beserk are the way to go.
I am not worried about my deck being tier 1, 2 or even 3
I have played legacy competitively since 2010 and recently sold off my top tier decks as I do not have the opportunity to play much anymore. I get the chance to play every now and again and just couldn't justify keeping a $2000 deck around. I have been testing via cockatrice to find a cheap deck that I enjoy playing that I can work on and tune. Something unusual that isn't seen very often. I am a big fan of pump spells so a green stompy deck seemed like an obvious choice. I will continue to work on this deck because I enjoy it quite a bit. I will make it as competitive as I can and will be posting things I figure out on this thread. I hope my contributions are welcome
In case you guys didn't see, Caleb Durward posted a GR legacy video with a deck that resembles stompy to some degree. It is a great watch, especially round 4!
I think anyone would be hard-pressed to say they aren't welcome! I think it's a great idea, and I look forward to seeing what you have for us.
We clearly saw the weakness of Land Grant in Game 1. It's nice to see him take a couple games. I just noticed how similar Assault Strobe and Berserk are. Beserk has a slightly better ability (and works well with Double Strike), but you don't have to sacrifice at end of turn with Strobe.
I also really like his Dryad Arbor tech. Searching for a creature with a fetchland is awesome, and really saved him in a few matches.
Land Grant is really bad. Before people go off on me, lets think about the good things about the card:
~Free spell to help cast Talara's Batallion or untap our Nettle Sentinels.
~Thins our deck of lands to let us draw more gas
And that is where that list ends.
There are at least two more dependent on deck flavor:
~Adds a card to your graveyard for 'free', providing fuel for a Delve spell like the Become Immense Obermeir is running, or the Hooting Mandrills I'm running.
~Can provide fixing in a Gx deck, because it can find any forest card, which means it can find your forest-and-something-else dual of choice.
Of course, monogreen builds with no delve cards don't benefit from either of these.
Well, When you look at it this way, the only thing that Land Grant does that a fetchland can't is count as a Green spell. This used to be important, but it is becoming less and less the case.
With Berserks? Yes. Without it? Probably! I think the fact that non-modern still has access to the modern tools and everything before it makes that evident!
"Hello MTGS Community! I've recently been brewing a cute little deck that actually works pretty well. It basically consists of creatures and spells that cost G and Winter Orb. When i saw Winter Orb, i new i wanted to create a fun yet effective deck revolving around it. Unfortunately, the deck relies heavily on that card, and green doesn't have an artifact tutor, so you pretty much mulligan if you don't draw it immediately. Anyway, here's what i've come up with so far:
4x Arbor Elf
3x Gladecover Scout
4x Joven's Ferrets
4x Magus of the Vineyard
4x Nettle Sentinel
3x Pouncing Jaguar
3x Rogue Elephant
4x Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4x Rancor
3x Spider Umbra
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Winter Orb
3x Dismember
6x Forest
4x Llanowar Reborn
3x Pendelhaven
Sideboard would probably include Ezuri's Archers, Hidden Gibbons, Hidden Predators, Mold Adder, Nature's Claim or Oxidize, and Pithing Needle. I also want to find some room for Young Wolf and Skyshroud Elite, however i don;t know where. Also, Sylvan Safekeeper, Zuran Orb, and Heart of Yavimaya could work nicely with the lands that i can't untap with Winter Orb. Quirion Ranger would also work neatly with Winter Orb, as we would tap our one land to play a spell, attack, then second main phase return a forest, untap our attacking creature, and play an untapped land, which we could play another spell with.
I was also considering a deck version with 4x Meekstone. Take out Rogue Elephant and some Rancors maybe.
So what do you all think? Anything else I should add or that I'm missing? Thanks for any feedback!"
My deviantART; if you're interested in alters, PM me!
Winter Orb is a great card, but don't forget that multiples are redundant. People don't generally run more than 3 in the maindeck. Basing your entire strategy around it is probably not the most effective way to do it. Many decks aren't affected so much by it, or will just destroy it. If you change your mindset to "be aggressive, then slow them down", then you're on the right track.
Magus of the Vineyard seems really bad in this deck. You often won't have a use for the mana he gives you, and he also adds mana for your opponent (colourless mana is still 2 they can use).
You should take a look at the other creatures this deck usually runs and how aggressive they are. You might see many of your choices as sub-optimal.
As for Meekstone, I once made a very effective deck with it and Flanking Knights. Almost all knights are 2/2 and have flanking or first strike, making them excellent candidates for Meekstone. I suppose a more modern approach would be to use the Exalted Mechanic with Meekstone. Any temporary pump is very effective with it, actually.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
I see some sets running Bequeathal for a little extra gas, and that makes me wonder if Warriors' Lesson might serve a similar purpose. This deck will likely be able to have two unblocked attackers get through in short order, and if/when it does, this serves up the same 2-card draw for G as Bequeathal does when it fires.
An oddball I'd been considering is Hero of Leina Tower - particularly in builds where you have mana-free spells like Mutagenic Growth and Bounty of the Hunt (Invigorate?) targetting your attacking creatures... with the quick excess mana you may have from Elves+Quirion, I could see a T3 or 4 attacking Hero getting huge and staying (somewhat) huge. On the Heroic tip, Heroic countergaining 1-drops like Favored Hoplite and Satyr Hoplite in the appropriate 2-color builds? (This synergizes a bit with the aforementioned Warriors' Lesson and Bounty of the Hunt, which can trigger multiple different heroic creatures in one casting).
Does the 8-pack of Slivers (Predatory Sliver and Muscle Sliver by the foursome) have any potential in this sort of deck? In GU builds, perhaps 12-sliver including 4 Galerider Slivers?
I saw some decks running Burning-Tree Emissary into Talara's Battalion - makes me wonder if those decks can make use of Myr Superion - either casting it off a BTE, or 2 Elves, or an Elf tapping twice via Quirion Ranger.
I'd assume M15's new Sunblade Elf merits consideration in GW builds... particularly ones running 4-Savannah 4-Temple Garden.
Life's Legacy - potential? I imagine that could be a 4-5-draw for 2 after the typical creature in this deck swings with Mutagenic/Bounty/Invigorate. Particularly good on a creature with Bequeathal, or a short-life-expectancy creature like Skyshroud Ridgeback.
Feedback appreciated, oh lowland stompy gurus.
You bring up a lot of great points and great cards! It goes to show how diverse this deck can be, with multiple splashing avenues and great combos.
Bequethal is, in my mind, completely unplayable. You have to play it on a creature and wait for it to die to get anything back, which means it's only replacing itself and the creature you lost, and never at a convenient time. Warrior's Lesson, on the other hand, seems much easier to play. You can definitely take advantage of it in the early game when you drop down multiple creatures and attack, and you get value right away for what you use. Sounds good to me!
XLS would have a hard time using Hero of Leina Tower to its full potential, because of the tight mana restrictions we put on ourselves. I can't see many situations where you be able to put more than 1-2 counters on it (if any). If you can't, it stays a very underwhelming 1/1. I think it's a risky inclusion, and probably wouldn't play it. The Hoplites are a bit interesting, it's too bad there are no green ones that don't require additional mana investment. Definitely not worth splashing for, but could be interesting if you already are.
For slivers, we're talking a totally different deck, here! U/G slivers I suppose could be done, but then you'd want to fill the deck with nothing but good 1-2 drop slivers, which I don't think there are enough of them in just those colours. In a LLS deck, you want your two-drops to be really significant. I don't think these slivers fit that role.
I have seen people put Burning-Tree Emissary to great use, as you have mentioned. I don't like the fact that it makes red mana, because of the low cost we have on spells, it makes our spells very colour intensive, which often means that unless you have the perfect RG to match it (or a battalion), that Red mana will be lost. Not the end of the world, but again, I want a 2-drop to bring me much more. I don't run any Llanowar Elves in my deck, as I really dislike all low-impact creatures that can't attack well. We play few lands because we want to be aggressive; Elves don't fit that bill. While it would be great to play Superion, I think his casting cost is too restrictive. I'm actually not sure if he can be cast using mana made from Elvish Spirit Guide; I don't think so, but I'll have to inform myself.
yes, a 2/2 for 1 mana is always welcome. I wouldn't expect to use his second ability anytime, though.
Drawing 2 cards for 2 mana at sorcery speed it pretty bland even for green, in my opinion. If it was instant, it would be great. You would really need to sacrifice something bigger in order to get your mana's worth (again, two mana is a big deal in this deck).
Hope this helps!
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
My baseline template was built around some of this thread's earlier decks with 4x Llanowar and 4x QRanger, which leaves a little more capability for big-mana turns to feed Hero... I agree that in some of the more recent decks that have the 'elves don't stomp enough' philosophy you talk about, this is a lot less tenable. Was thinking of an ideal-draw scenario like T1 Llanowar, T2 Quirion+Hero, then T3 one could hit the Hero with a freecast Mutagenic / Invigorate / Bounty and be able to drop X=4 or 5 into the Heroic trigger, swing for 7 or 8 now and still have a 5/5 when all is done.
It's true that ESGs can't pay for Myr Superion. The Elves I was talking about that could push out a Superion (as the backup plan, BTE being the ideal method) were of the Llanowar variety or their lookalikes. Much like the scenario above, a T1 Forest + Llanowar Elves can be followed up by a T2 Quirion Ranger and then tap the Llanowar twice (via QRanger) for a Myr Superion.
My imagined (and admittedly likely unfeasable) LowlandSlivers deck concept was the old 4-grant 4-llanowar 4-Qranger manabase (maybe ESGs too, unsure)... with those 8 green +1/+1 slivers and Experiment One (I've found E1 works great with the MusclePredatory set - barring removal, each successive Sliver enters the battlefield at just the right P/T level to cause E1 to evolve). And the requisite instant P/T boosters of course.
The thought on Life's Legacy was that it would net a lot more than 2 cards... after attacking with something that got Mutagenic Growth'ed or Bounty of the Hunt'ed or Invigorate'd (or hopefully multiple of the above), firing a 2nd-main Life's Legacy to draw 4, 5, or more cards while that creature's power is at a temporary high, that didn't actually cost you mana-this-turn to get there so the 2-cost of LL doesn't conflict with having had to spend mana to get those temporary P/T boosts.
Early attempts with Elves I've found to be somewhat weaker, as they just don't have that individual strength that more aggressive decks do. There's a compromise to be made between efficiency and combo-power in the deck. Adding too many complex elements hurts the overall usability of the deck, as you can often end up with "dead cards" in hand or in play. Maybe there are enough cards to abuse now with Superion, BTE, Hero and Battalion for a deck like this to work. Do you have a list? I'd be curious to see what you've built.
On life's Legacy: This would of course be assuming the idea that you have more than 2 mana to spend, either with free pump or ramp spells. Again, with a deck geared like mine (built to run on 1-2 mana exclusively), this is entirely unthinkable. In a deck with Elves, you can conceivably reach 4 mana quite easily, making cards like Life's Legacy available to you. Again, the overall deck will be slower, but the promise of more gas and a better end-game might be worth it. You do need to want to sacrifice the creature you just spent pump spells on, though...
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4x Boros Elite
4x Dryad Militant
4x Favored Hoplite
4x Gladecover Scout
4x Loam Lion
3x Rogue Elephant
4x Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
2x Hyena Umbra
4x Path to Exile
4x Rancor
3x Winter Orb
4x Razorverge Thicket
4x Temple Garden
Also, has anyone considered any of the 'Hidden' cards from Urza block? Hidden Gibbons and Hidden Predators for example, seem broken for the sideboard.
Mold Adder and Soldier of the Pantheon also look like they could work in the sideboard.
I really like the Favored Hoplite in this build. With all the spells your slapping on your guys, he is a good target, cuz he gets bigger, is immune to bigger enemy creatures, and forces your opponents removal on their turn.
Also, Razorverge Thicket is broken in this.
My deviantART; if you're interested in alters, PM me!
As much as Thicket is good, it doesn't work quite so well with Loam Lion, does it? It's those kinds of bad synergies that make me think splashing for situational cards kind of a bad idea. I appreciate that you're trying new creatures and builds. I think Green has the upper hand in speed and consistency. The auras might help your creatures survive combat a bit better, but they'll never be as fast nor offer the element of surprise that makes Green pump so attractive here. I like Path to Exile, and Loam Lion would definitely be playable in a deck with fetches and Savannahs. I'm not in love with the other white creatures, as they don't seem to make up for the weaknesses you create in your build. Favored Hoplite requires at least one trigger in order to compete (terrible top-deck), and Elite's drawback seems to be pretty steep. When you compare it with Rogue Elephant, it just looks bad.
I've also found that 2 Winter Orb is a good number. Drawing several was horrid, and it's not that great against every deck anyways, so I've been really satisfied with just two.
As for the "Hidden" cards, situational and reactive is not where you want to be. Perhaps some of them could be usable if you know what you're playing against. Gibbons could be worth a try.
Soldier of the Pantheon is almost maindeck worthy, imo. most 2/1s are, especially if they have no downsides. I'm starting to think maybe mono-White Stompy could start being a thing!
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Both the changes you suggested would definitely be good ones. I feel like Cradle would make way more mana than you'd ever need. With 14 lands and 4 Land Grant already, I think you could afford to cut Llanowar Elves in favour of another 1-mana beater. Dryad Militant is a very popular choice for the archetype, and with good reason.
I find 4 Winter Orbs to be excessive. I'm oscillating between 2 and 3, myself.
Is wasteland really worth it? You'll hardly ever be able to use it for mana as almost all your spells use Green mana only, and destroying lands with lands is an unaffordable luxury for this kind of deck.
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If you are going to run Goyf, I would at least switch the numbers of it and Kavu Predator.
Your list needs more creatures (good ones, not mana dorks). I would spend the last two slots on those. I can't help but insist that you probably don't need Llanowar Elves, and I'd much rather see a beater here, especially with your fixed mana base. While playing, I'm certain you'll notice many times where you just have way more mana than you'd ever know what to do with in a deck like this. With the ESGs, you have a total of 27 cards used to get you mana in some way. That's enormous. That's what many control decks would normally have. Something is not right, in my opinion.
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My thinking is that versions of this deck that run a lot of 'free' cards like Land Grant, Invigorate, Mutagenic Growth, and Bounty of the Hunt can very quickly have quite a number of cards in the grave as Delve fuel (and the deck could be made to run forestfetches if further delve fuel was desired). Rogue Elephant builds also make delve fuel. (of course this flavor of deck would have to reject Dryad Militant).
Of course, too many Delve cards just get in each others' way - which is another reason why Bounty of the Hunt works well here, you could pitch excess green delve cards as Bounty cost.
I'm trying out two Mandrills in an LLS build I'm tweaking today, we'll see if they land in good time or not.
I don't see why not! Does blue have enough to offer to the deck to warrant the splash? It would feel a little silly just for Treasure Cruise (which might not always be playable).
When it comes to Hooting Mandrills or Become Immense, that's a different story. It would be easy to include either one of them as a 1-of, for sure. I don't think I would want more than that, though, as they're both awful in the early game and bad in multiples. Personally, I'm more inclined to think Become Immense has a better place in this deck.
KBH,
I think Root Maze and Winter Orb do different things. One slows down cards already in play, and the other slows down cards coming into play. Sure, against fetches it becomes the same thing, but why not just use Winter Orb and slow everything down evenly? The advantages of Root Maze are clear, however: It also affects artifacts and costs 1 mana less. Ups and downs, but I find Winter Orb to be easier to use and better against decks without fetches (obviously).
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Something like this
4x Ankh of Mishra
4x Black Vise
2x Damping Matrix
2x Mana Web
2x Meekstone
2x Storage Matrix
1x Storm Cauldron
2x Uba Mask
4x Winter Orb
4x Elvish Mystic
4x Elvish Visionary
4x Fyndhorn Elves
4x Llanowar Elves
4x Wirewood Symbiote
4x Land Grant
Enchantment (3)
3x Root Maze
Land (10)
10x Forest
It's an interesting idea, 10-land Stax. I think there might be room for improvement here! I see no "Stompy" elements here, though. The only thing they have in common is the land count. I'd think of posting this in the main forum for help. Maybe even Legacy, if you take out Black Vise.
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This might sound blasphemous but I have been playing this archetype against tier 1 decks in legacy lately and I had a realization.
Land Grant is really bad. Before people go off on me, lets think about the good things about the card:
~Free spell to help cast Talara's Batallion or untap our Nettle Sentinels.
~Thins our deck of lands to let us draw more gas
And that is where that list ends. Lets look at the cons!
~If we keep a hand where Land Grant is our only "land" we autolose to our opponent going first and having discard (thoughtsieze) them going first or second with Force of Will and them going first with Daze/Spell Pierce.
~We ruin the surprise of our buff spells when we play this card. Particularly since I play the Berserk variety, a clever opponent can piece together my win and change their gameplan.
~we risk landfall for groundswell against counterspells. We literally reveal our hand, our opponent sees groundswell and then counters our grant, shutting us down.
Okay so lets address these one at a time.
~free spell for Talara: This is pretty cool but do we need Talara? My build is actually pretty heavily focused around her (mutagenics, grants, invigorates+berserk) but I could easily go for Rogue elephant instead.
~Thins our deck: Is this REALLY so relevant? what if we just replace these with 4 forests (or Wooded Foothills since they are so cheap now)If we imagine Land Grant as a virtual land, I think you will find the difference between having 12 lands left in a 52 card deck (turn 1) vs 13 lands left in a 53 card deck to be MINISCULE.
~Something to pitch to Vine Dryad or Bounty of the Hunt (given how bad these cards are, I am not sure this is considered a compliment/pro)
CONS:
~auto loss: solved immediately by cutting grants for forests or fetches (fetches seem only bad against stifle)
~surprise: solved by cutting grants for lands
~landfall: solved by cutting grants for lands
So while I think Talara's Battalion is one of the best things this deck can be doing, it doesn't seem worth it to keep playing grant to make her better and "thin" my deck when there are so many archetypes I can just lose to on turn 1 without a lucky land topdeck. I think the number of games I just get blown out FAR outweighs the games I lose because I drew a forest when I needed gas because my deck has ONE more forest(virtual or otherwise) in it.
Is there something I am missing here? Is Land Grant, from a competitive Legacy standpoint, as bad as I think it is? To me the downsides of running it vs 4 forests seem severe.
This was the list I was playing when I came to this conclusion. It is essentially designed to be able to consistently set up either pit skulk or batallion since those are the best 2 bodies the deck can muster imo.
10 Forest
4 Land Grant
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Dryad Militant
4 Nettle Sentinel
2 Rogue Elephant
4 Talara's Battalion
4 Berserk
4 Rancor
4 Invigorate
4 Groundswell
4 Mutagenic Growth
My proposed change:
-4 Land Grant
-4 Battalion
+4 Forest
+1 Revenge of the Hunted
+3 Winter Orb
I am also considering cutting Invigorate for something that DOESN'T suck when I don't have Berserk in hand. I will have to test and make sure the mana is okay for me to cast other buff spells.
By the way, I am pretty confident that Bounty of the Hunt and Vine Dryad are kinda horrible. The decks FUNDAMENTAL design is to have a threat dense deck full of gas. Why would you compromise this idea by playing cards that chew up valuable resources. The fact that I found myself most often pitching dead land grants to them is part of what drove me to reconsider Land Grant. If you MUST play one of them, the Bounty is much better, especially with Berserk.
Also, how do we feel about 1 of Revenge of the Hunted? It has done wonders for me in different versions of my list. I am also considering turning my Dryad Militants into Jungle Lions so I can run 2 Become Immense.
It's already been very well established in this thread that when competing against competitive Legacy decks, it's best to play without Land Grant. It is mostly a vestige from wanting Green cards in hand for Vine Dryad and Bounty of the Hunt (I'm talking more than a decade ago), as you mentioned. What was competitive then is no longer now. Vine Dryad is no longer playable, and I've personally found Mutagenic Growth to be a much better "free" spell than Bounty. Talara's Battalion benefits greatly from the Land Grant, but it certainly is not necessary like it used to be. It's perfectly fine to play Land Grant to stick with the "old school" Stompy list, but it certainly is not acceptable at higher levels.
I've been using a single Become Immense to good effect. It's sometimes dead though. Revenge of the Hunted would be even harder to cast, though it's more of a blowout.
I love card tags so much. I really, really do. Deck tags are great as well.
You want to be competitive? I'd say look for another deck. If you insist, Lands instead of Grant and having Beserk are the way to go.
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I have played legacy competitively since 2010 and recently sold off my top tier decks as I do not have the opportunity to play much anymore. I get the chance to play every now and again and just couldn't justify keeping a $2000 deck around. I have been testing via cockatrice to find a cheap deck that I enjoy playing that I can work on and tune. Something unusual that isn't seen very often. I am a big fan of pump spells so a green stompy deck seemed like an obvious choice. I will continue to work on this deck because I enjoy it quite a bit. I will make it as competitive as I can and will be posting things I figure out on this thread. I hope my contributions are welcome
In case you guys didn't see, Caleb Durward posted a GR legacy video with a deck that resembles stompy to some degree. It is a great watch, especially round 4!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOLasW9pyU8&list=PL04lbfeNAaS-5KBzenh577G8TsnV3pec0
We clearly saw the weakness of Land Grant in Game 1. It's nice to see him take a couple games. I just noticed how similar Assault Strobe and Berserk are. Beserk has a slightly better ability (and works well with Double Strike), but you don't have to sacrifice at end of turn with Strobe.
I also really like his Dryad Arbor tech. Searching for a creature with a fetchland is awesome, and really saved him in a few matches.
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There is a lowland stompy thread on legacy forums, you might check that out:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/budget-legacy/186142-primer-9-land-stompy
There are at least two more dependent on deck flavor:
~Adds a card to your graveyard for 'free', providing fuel for a Delve spell like the Become Immense Obermeir is running, or the Hooting Mandrills I'm running.
~Can provide fixing in a Gx deck, because it can find any forest card, which means it can find your forest-and-something-else dual of choice.
Of course, monogreen builds with no delve cards don't benefit from either of these.
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Important differences from Modern other than Berserk are Winter Orb, Elvish Spirit Guide and Land Grant (the latter being unsafe for competitive play).
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3 Bounty of the Hunt
4 Giant Growth
3 Winter Orb
2 Dismember
4 Skyshroud Ridgeback
4 Dryad Militant
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Land Grant
10 Forest
Any suggestions to make it stronger?
I'm not willing to spend money on Berserk
These are the changes that I am considering right now:
- 4 Skyshroud Ridgeback
+ 4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
- 2 Giant Growth
+ 2 Rancor
- 2 Giant Growth
- 2 Bounty of the Hunt
+ 4 Mutagenic Growth
Should I add more pump and cut some creatures?
These are the decks that I have constructed, and are ready to play:
01. Ankh Sligh to be exact.