I've always been an avid fan of the zombie archetype and so when i decided to i needed my own MTG deck, instead of borrowing friend's, naturally i turned to the rotting corpses that infest this game. I poured over every card that counted as a zombie according to this sites search function and despite all the directions i could take this deck i finally decided on a direction and built this:(its been edited a few times)
Personally I think Liliana utterly sucks outside of her ultimate and tends to serve more as a distraction then a win condition so i kept her count down. Fairly new to building decks so Terramorphic might be a stupid addition but i figured it pulled cards out of the deck which to me sounds like a plus. Another odd addition you might see is Grave Pact, but i figured it gets around indestructible and helps shave the opponents monster count down in 1v2/3's(which my group tends to always play) and Gisa along with Gnawing Zombie set it off quite easily. Diregraf can get big as well as Lord and Sidisi helps grab whatever card im missing from the combo. Best opening hands i seem to find so far is Stockpile or Cryptbreaker since they get the ball rolling in the right direction.
I know its probably "slow" or rudimentary but I feel its a fairly solid build. Curious how the community feels about it and if maybe i overlooked a better card choice or combo.(side note i hate bridge from below its strong but so easy to get it banished)
Apologies ahead of time im new to deck posting forums so when editing a deck during discussion im not sure if i edit the main post or add the new one in a new post or both??(also this site refuses to give me notifications).
Before the formal, Kain123 after replying i reread your post a few times and did some research on the cards you put forth and realized you were far more correct then myself. My original build was far too slow and fairly easy to pick apart with little to no power when power was needed. Merchant really got me thinking and i know this is a bit of a drastic change but inspiration took and i ran with it.
Before its mentioned i did indeed attempt cabal coffers(duel testing against aggressive AI using Forge) a few times and every time i had it, it was relatively lackluster until late in the game and would've served to be a normal swamp more often then not. I changed from the token army concept for what i believe to be a stronger force although interactions between Gravecrawler and Diregraf can lead to armies just as big if not bigger and faster then my original without an already set up field I.E. Ranks or the absurd ultimate of Liliana.
Thing that might not belong would be Gifted Aetherborn, but i realized Cryptbreaker became completely useless by turn 3 or 4 and could barely chump alongside Gravecrawler who cant block. She(?) helped alleviate the opening turns by providing a way to replenish health/create a bit of a opening threat although not being zombie may hurt her a little but so far its not usually a problem.
Buried Alive is such a beautiful card that thins the deck by three per and allows you to get the star of the deck Sheoldred, Whispering One and sets up for cheaper summoning due to the reanimation spells. Also allows you to get to your Gravecrawlers easily and can help alleviate the problems i felt Korlash brang. (also sets up for Merchant quite smoothly=P)
Let me know about the whole deck editing during discussion thing and i get things edited properly thanks. Kumlekar(wow just realized the innuendo there) thanks for chiming in i feel a reanimation package was just what i was missing and kudos you seem to roam these forums alot lol. Side note to you sir:Apocalypse and Death are great cards especially late game i might consider Apocalypse but sadly Death will be shelved i dont think i could deal with two Ulamogs in one duel.
Hope to see more input im burning to get this deck done thanks=D
One more version and one more step towards completion!
Yay to retyping>.<
Finally i get to throw Cryptbreaker out of the build! In his place i put in Miasmic Mummy with it being an all around stronger creature and helps to fix your hand when you end up drawing into your bigger creatures you would prefer in the graveyard, and Geralf's Messenger whom was recommended and after some testing i really like his performance and both cards play well with Gravecrawlers graveyard recursion(the latter having fun interaction with Recurring Nightmare). Crypt Ghast is there to help hard cast Sheoldred and Griselbrand quicker if necessary and its extort ability can change the tide of the game rather quickly when paired with Gravecrawler. Animate Dead was added to go alongside Recurring Nightmare for those times when you cant seem to get a monster on board to pay for the sacrifice cost and can be played sooner when necessary. Lastly Tendrils can help to keep you alive when in the early game and can deal with threats you feel need more immediate attention.
1) Terramorphic Expanse is useless in your deck...you dont want lands coming into play tapped and you do not need to fix your colors...thinning your deck by 4 lands isnt worth it. If you want better lands, go for Cabal Coffers if you have the budget.
2) I'm not that much of a fan of the zombies you are playing except for Diregraf Colossus. Here are some that I would play if I made a zombie deck...
Carrion Feeder: Sacrifice any of the other recurring zombies to boost this one
Apologies if this sounds nit picky or unappreciative since it is not meant that way and i truly appreciate and like the suggestions.
Now with that out of the way ill go by category:(give or take this excerpt)
I dont think you understood the reason for the direction i was trying to go for with the key theme of the deck. I chose the creatures i did because of the token generation, typically in a multi-man duel(does MTG call it duels?) going for "ive got the biggest creature" strategies get you stuck in the situation of well i can kill one guy but then the rest of the players can pick you off so i was trying to get a setup where i can have a force that can attack and defend while keeping the creature count manageable(Grave Pact) and can deal with the pesky Ulamog plus indestructible gods my friends play.
Land:
I did feel like Terramorphic was a bit of a random and unnecessary tech, i guess i just figured with all the draw(Necromancer's Stockpile,Cryptbreaker) i wanted to reduce the chance of wasting it into a land even if only a little. As for Cabal Coffers that's a great suggestion(though a little pricey) since it more or less essentially doubles your mana count. My only concern since i haven't seen it used is that it might get a little bricky since its more or less useless until you get 4 swamps whereas the current choice thins the deck and is immediately useful although its benefits are definitely considerable.
Lords:
If keeping with the token theme i feel we could both agree that keeping the lords count to a minimum is key since they don't directly enhance the primary goal. First to chop is Master, swampwalk is super situational and a situation that will almost never come up and regenerate is just as useless since most creature removal ive faced is either exile or has the cant be regenerated clause. Undead Warchief and Lord of the Undead have their merits but ultimately there isnt currently a zombie worth wasting mana to bring to hand and all of the current mana costs are pretty low to begin with.I know you didnt name it but Lord of the Accursed and Death Baron both serve similar purposes and i like them both but i believe Accursed wins out since he essentially doubles your tokens when he grants menace.
Beat Sticks: Feeder, Husk, and Ghoul i agree are pretty powerful cards but outside of an already in place token generating field will never see their potential and in the multi-man scenario they are a great way to open up your field for your opponent. Wight easily being the worst of the group since it requires your opponent(s) graveyard to be sufficiently set up. Unbreathing Horde/Soulless One in our group meta are the same exact card so well talk about the stronger and cheaper Horde, I have nothing bad to say about it its great at a 3 drop can get super strong without effort(especially with the tokens) and is virtually unkillable in battle all around good card and a serious debate about finding it a spot.
Tech?: Shepherd of Rot is the easiest no since it states all players and that includes myself, my friends have lands that give life when played and some run Arborback Stomper esque cards so its an immediate disadvantage. Korlash, Heir to Blackblade sounds like such a great card! can become huge quickly without effort and the deck thinning is just perfect my only caveat is just that his best ability requires 3 cards in a 60 card deck to be in hand to be of any use, outside of some worries about the opening hand im having trouble coming up with a reason not to run him. Ghoulraiser inconsistent and superfluous(see lords). Gravecrawler seems like good card and combos nicely with Stockpile but not being able to block really hinders its uses. Merchant is a good card and its cost isnt even too big of a deal but i feel like its win-more without contribution to the strategy. Relentless Dead is an interesting card and with the sacrifice effects will likely get its effect off nicely but i feel like Dread Return does its job better. Fleshbag does follow the current effects but its sacrifice is mandatory and doesnt provide any real benefit like making tokens or gaining life. Last is Messenger, im super on the fence with this guy he has downsides being tapped and upsides dealing damage and bringing himself back which deals damage....he seems like a standalone card or more geared toward a revival deck.
That took far too long to type and think about. Again nothing said was to be argumentive or unappreciative, in fact it was said to give my opinions of the cards and choices in relation to the strategy ive attempted to build in hopes it could spark more accurate discussion and furthering of the build(I am well aware that limiting myself to my token strategy is in and of itself a hindrance and limits the potential strength of the deck going further). Luckily you commented when you did as i was about to start acquiring the cards this very night. A fortuitous turn of events indeed
Lord of the undead was mentioned above and is probably a good choice. The ability nets you a card for two mana, regardless of what the card is. Hell, you might just discard the returned card to Necromancer's Stockpile immediately to dig for a card you need. If you're playing multiplayer you'll want some resistance to board wipes. I'd consider a light reanimator package. Also, I'm not sure about Endless Ranks of the Dead. The requirement of having two zombies in play the upkeep after you play is is pretty awkward.
1) an awesome finisher if you are ahead in the game with enough black mana to drain all the life they have left
or
2) the card that will kill them if you have a way to repeatedly bring it back from your graveyard every time it dies (Lord of the Undead ?)
or
3) a great lifedrain in multiplayer games and a blocker that will improve your chances of survival until you can get back in the game if you are behind.
As long as I'm not mana short, I'm always happy to draw a merchant in my mono-black deck...it's so obscenely strong that I only run 2 because 4 would be considered abusive by my playgroup.
Apologies ahead of time im new to deck posting forums so when editing a deck during discussion im not sure if i edit the main post or add the new one in a new post or both??(also this site refuses to give me notifications).
Before the formal, Kain123 after replying i reread your post a few times and did some research on the cards you put forth and realized you were far more correct then myself. My original build was far too slow and fairly easy to pick apart with little to no power when power was needed. Merchant really got me thinking and i know this is a bit of a drastic change but inspiration took and i ran with it.
Before its mentioned i did indeed attempt cabal coffers(duel testing against aggressive AI using Forge) a few times and every time i had it, it was relatively lackluster until late in the game and would've served to be a normal swamp more often then not. I changed from the token army concept for what i believe to be a stronger force although interactions between Gravecrawler and Diregraf can lead to armies just as big if not bigger and faster then my original without an already set up field I.E. Ranks or the absurd ultimate of Liliana.
Thing that might not belong would be Gifted Aetherborn, but i realized Cryptbreaker became completely useless by turn 3 or 4 and could barely chump alongside Gravecrawler who cant block. She(?) helped alleviate the opening turns by providing a way to replenish health/create a bit of a opening threat although not being zombie may hurt her a little but so far its not usually a problem.
Buried Alive is such a beautiful card that thins the deck by three per and allows you to get the star of the deck Sheoldred, Whispering One and sets up for cheaper summoning due to the reanimation spells. Also allows you to get to your Gravecrawlers easily and can help alleviate the problems i felt Korlash brang. (also sets up for Merchant quite smoothly=P)
Let me know about the whole deck editing during discussion thing and i get things edited properly thanks. Kumlekar(wow just realized the innuendo there) thanks for chiming in i feel a reanimation package was just what i was missing and kudos you seem to roam these forums alot lol. Side note to you sir:Apocalypse and Death are great cards especially late game i might consider Apocalypse but sadly Death will be shelved i dont think i could deal with two Ulamogs in one duel.
Hope to see more input im burning to get this deck done thanks=D
If you were considering Cabal Coffers, you can always play Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth to improve the coffers a bit...if urborg is in play, the coffer itself counts as a swamp and it helps. The coffers ends up being equal to a swamp on turn 3 instead of turn 4...and the amount of mana it generated is increased by 1 for all the following turns.
2) Gifted aetherborn, Cryptbreaker feels like the weakest cards in your deck...you won't want these in the end game and it can be dealt with easily. If you want cards for the early game, Carion Feeder is a card that you would like early or late in the game...because you can abuse it's synergy with Gravecrawler. Otherwise, you could add some removal cards like Oath of Liliana to ensure some level of protection while adding a black mana symbol in play for your gray merchant or simply more Grave pact
I'd rather run 4 Diregraft Colossus than 2 colossus and 2 Unbreathing horde. The horde will quickly die to spot removal while the colossus can build an army before getting itself killed...i'd rather spread the strength around than focus everything at one place.
Geralf's messenger is also one of the best zombies that you left out...it's undying ability, come into play effect and synergy with the grey merchant will make this guy a pesky nuisance for your opponents....I was never disappointed even if it comes into play tapped.
Honestly i started on considering Cabal as per your suggestion in the second post. However i realize i have no need for ramping mana faster most of the deck operates perfectly well by 4 mana and Cabal requires Urborg to save it from being a brick early game. The less bricks and horrible creatures known as mulligans i can have the better. (also seems like an unnecessary extra 100 bucks for good numbers for both.
1)That's a good idea i hate Reanimates drawback so much especially since i like it for a 7 drop O.o. Since you seem to be a long time player i ask wouldn't being connected to an enchantment cause my creature to be far more vulnerable? Its a little harder to use but do you think Recurring Nightmare might be a better replacement?(by the time i can Bury id have the mana to use Nightmare. As for Dread Return I really like the card cause of its flashback which can allow you to use it even before the 4 mana.
2)I agree Cryptbreaker is very sub par past the first 2 turns but he allows discards while gaining monsters. Example i drew Sheoldred on my opening hand well he can toss her to make a token which sets up the reanimation spell of choice to be live and can even throw Dread Return and create the creatures needed for its flashback. although in earnesty he does get some good draws later in the game since you cant block with gravecrawler especially when its still sick. As for Gifted in multiplayer duels having to wait till turn three for a creature to block is suicide I.E. Carrion Feeder or turn 4 Geralf's Messenger so i searched out 1 and 2 drops and shes was my favorite of the group.
Funny enough Diregraf was the cut back i made for Gifted Aetherborn. Ill see where i can fit in more Diregraf maybe one less Horde.(stupid cutback now that im looking at it more) as for Horde i really like its reilience to damage and potential to throw damage on the board. Make more edits after your opinions for the reanimation section thanks for your continued help and sorry im stubborn=(
1) Recurring Nightmare is a sick card...any deck built to exploit it is usually very strong. One of it's strengths lies in the fact that it cannot be destroyed by a Disenchant-like card when it is played right. After you cast it, the first thing you must announce is that you sacrifice a creature to bring the nightmare back in your hand because when you play the nightmare, they cannot destroy it until it enters play...and once it is in play, you are the first player to receive priority...so you are the first one to speak...if you announce that you activate your nightmare's ability, part of the cost of that ability is that you return the nightmare to your hand and you must pay the costs as you put the ability on the stack so the nightmare is already in your hand when they have a chance to Disenchant it. About the nightmare, it's a great idea to run it because your Gravecrawler are very eager to die and it will allow your other zombies to come back easily. If you plan to play several nightmares, you should consider playing more creatures with strong come into play effects like Sepulchral Primordial or Grave Titan (since it fits with your deck) to abuse the come into play and leave play effects. Animate Dead is also good. While it's true that your creature is suddenly vulnerable to enchantment-removal stuff...the option of being able to reanimate stuff in your opponents graveyard is a great help, especially in multiplayer games and you can always find a creature with a sick come into play effect (Diluvian primordial, Sphinx of Uthuun, Combustible Gearhulk, etc...) so it's always worth it to play these. You can play Animate Dead or Recurring Nightmare or both and I dont think you will be disapointed
2) *Just noticed that Sheoldred is actually a girl =)* My favorite black creature for early game defense is Baleful Strix but you sadly dont play blue =) ...I have no better suggestion for early game defense. In my playgroup it isnt so bad because we always play team games...2 vs 2 or 3 vs 3...we even have systems for 5 player games so they dont end up in a free for all brawl.
3) If you plan on running several Recurring Nightmare, you can run more creatures with abilities that can be used right away when they are reanimated or come into play effects or leave play effects such as Kokusho, the Evening Star, Griselbrand even if they arent zombies.
Here's the decklist of my mono-black deck in case it gives you any ideas. It fares pretty well in multiplayer games but I attempt to generate more mana than you do:
The tendrils, gray merchant and kokusho nets me a lot of life which allow me to survive until i bring out some of my bigger cards. The fact that all my single-target removal cards are instants allow me to wait until an opponent actually attacks me to take out his creature...that way i can hold my removal for threats that are really against me and I can save my ressources when the threats are used against another opponent.
Hey there sorry about the delay it was hard finding time to test card tweaks in between work and life. I hope you dont mind but i borrowed a tad from your build for my new version although i guess that was kind've the reason you posted it. I edited it into the first post to keep things more organized. My main annoyance is the necessity of a small discard outlet for the few key moments where you draw into the big guys. I did try to add in some more "enter battlefield" big creatures but it kept throwing off my ratio in testing.
I realize we had a minor miscommunication when i said multiplayer which was my bad. My reason for needing opening turn monsters is my group tends to mostly play 3 and 4 player free for all more often then not so no teammate to fall back on for blocking and more people poking at your field per round.
Ive noticed one use of Griselbrand's effect puts you so far ahead its almost laughable and paired with Merchant its you tend to have more card and life then you started with.
You could run an exact copy of my deck and I wouldnt mind at all =) ...so feel free to take whatever you want from there...that's why I posted it in the first place.
Free for all is still a multiplayer game.
Griselbrand is indeed a strong creature...until someone Mindslaver you and kills you with it =)
I dont see the new version of your deck in the first post...the version I see in the first post is the same as the latest version I commented so i have nothing to add.
Ahhh sigh it didnt save=( welp i retyped it up my original explanation was better but oh well.
That be true but it is a fairly different dynamic compared to 2v2 and 3v3 since tapping your creatures out basically means your dead before your turn comes back around(its the reason why i had to scrap "mill" from being my second deck).
Skullclamp (if legal in your playgroup) is sick with Gravecrawler and you dont have that many cards that allow you to draw. Syphon mind is another option if skullclamp isnt legal.
If I had to name which card to remove from your deck, I'd say that Crypt Ghast is probably what I would remove. It's a great card and can be very useful but it's not a zombie, it doesnt have any come into play/leave play effect that you could abuse with Recurring Nightmare and even lesser removal cards (Shock) can kill it.
If you want the absolute ugliest card to abuse recurring nightmare with, it would be Sundering Titan...but if you play the nightmare and the titan together, your whole playgroup will want to burn you alive ...and they probably will =)
I initially wanted to use Demonic Tutor when i first started this deck since i came from playing Yugioh and we have the philosophy that deck thinning is deck winning lol but that 45 dollar price tag for a 4 of card is uh pretty rich( even currently according to this site the deck is sitting at 260 and i literally have to buy every single card)
After you posted your decklist i immediately threw in Skullclamp and loved the draws but it came at the cost of not having a monster to sacrifice for Recurring Nightmare. When testing it just felt like the two cards kept conflicting.
If you have any zombie in play, you can cast Gravecrawler from your graveyard, clamp it, cast it again, clamp it...etc...
If you want more zombies, use Buried alive to put 3 Gravecrawler in your graveyard and cast them. They still cant block but they can be sacrificed in recurring nightmare or skullclamp. Better keep 1 in the graveyard in case they cast Merciless Eviction or something similar.
Thank you for your help Sir Kain123 i feel like the build is finalized and i feel without your help it would be nowhere near what i ended at. Im not sure if ill update the first post to the finalized decklist so apologies if i dont. But i look forward to playing the deck when everything comes in and look forward to more time in these forums. Thank You!
Just a warning about clamp. That card is banned in legacy and restricted in vintage. You will run into players that will not want to play against four copies in a deck. If you're fine with that, go ahead, but you might want to keep an extra deck on you in case someone gets salty.
4 Cryptbreaker
4 Gnawing Zombie
4 Diregraf Colossus
4 Lord of the Accursed
2 Ghoulcaller Gisa
2 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
2 Grave Pact
2 Endless Ranks of the Dead
4 Necromancer's Stockpile
Land
4 Terramorphic Expanse
18 Swamp
2 Dread Return
4 Dark Salvation
2 Stir the Sands
Planeswalker
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
I believe you call this "going wide"!
Personally I think Liliana utterly sucks outside of her ultimate and tends to serve more as a distraction then a win condition so i kept her count down. Fairly new to building decks so Terramorphic might be a stupid addition but i figured it pulled cards out of the deck which to me sounds like a plus. Another odd addition you might see is Grave Pact, but i figured it gets around indestructible and helps shave the opponents monster count down in 1v2/3's(which my group tends to always play) and Gisa along with Gnawing Zombie set it off quite easily. Diregraf can get big as well as Lord and Sidisi helps grab whatever card im missing from the combo. Best opening hands i seem to find so far is Stockpile or Cryptbreaker since they get the ball rolling in the right direction.
I know its probably "slow" or rudimentary but I feel its a fairly solid build. Curious how the community feels about it and if maybe i overlooked a better card choice or combo.(side note i hate bridge from below its strong but so easy to get it banished)
Before the formal, Kain123 after replying i reread your post a few times and did some research on the cards you put forth and realized you were far more correct then myself. My original build was far too slow and fairly easy to pick apart with little to no power when power was needed. Merchant really got me thinking and i know this is a bit of a drastic change but inspiration took and i ran with it.
4 Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
2 Unbreathing Horde
3 Cryptbreaker
2 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
2 Diregraf Colossus
3 Gifted Aetherborn
4 Gravecrawler
2 Sheoldred, Whispering One
2 Grave Pact
3 Necromancer's Stockpile
Land
3 Phyrexian Tower
21 Swamp
Sorcery
4 Buried Alive
2 Reanimate
3 Dread Return
Before its mentioned i did indeed attempt cabal coffers(duel testing against aggressive AI using Forge) a few times and every time i had it, it was relatively lackluster until late in the game and would've served to be a normal swamp more often then not. I changed from the token army concept for what i believe to be a stronger force although interactions between Gravecrawler and Diregraf can lead to armies just as big if not bigger and faster then my original without an already set up field I.E. Ranks or the absurd ultimate of Liliana.
Thing that might not belong would be Gifted Aetherborn, but i realized Cryptbreaker became completely useless by turn 3 or 4 and could barely chump alongside Gravecrawler who cant block. She(?) helped alleviate the opening turns by providing a way to replenish health/create a bit of a opening threat although not being zombie may hurt her a little but so far its not usually a problem.
Buried Alive is such a beautiful card that thins the deck by three per and allows you to get the star of the deck Sheoldred, Whispering One and sets up for cheaper summoning due to the reanimation spells. Also allows you to get to your Gravecrawlers easily and can help alleviate the problems i felt Korlash brang. (also sets up for Merchant quite smoothly=P)
Let me know about the whole deck editing during discussion thing and i get things edited properly thanks. Kumlekar(wow just realized the innuendo there) thanks for chiming in i feel a reanimation package was just what i was missing and kudos you seem to roam these forums alot lol. Side note to you sir:Apocalypse and Death are great cards especially late game i might consider Apocalypse but sadly Death will be shelved i dont think i could deal with two Ulamogs in one duel.
Hope to see more input im burning to get this deck done thanks=D
4 Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
2 Crypt Ghast
2 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4 Diregraf Colossus
2 Miasmic Mummy
4 Gravecrawler
2 Geralf's Messenger
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
1 Griselbrand
4 Recurring Nightmare
2 Grave Pact
2 Animate Dead
Land
3 Phyrexian Tower
21 Swamp
2 Tendrils of Corruption
Sorcery
4 Buried Alive
Yay to retyping>.<
Finally i get to throw Cryptbreaker out of the build! In his place i put in Miasmic Mummy with it being an all around stronger creature and helps to fix your hand when you end up drawing into your bigger creatures you would prefer in the graveyard, and Geralf's Messenger whom was recommended and after some testing i really like his performance and both cards play well with Gravecrawlers graveyard recursion(the latter having fun interaction with Recurring Nightmare). Crypt Ghast is there to help hard cast Sheoldred and Griselbrand quicker if necessary and its extort ability can change the tide of the game rather quickly when paired with Gravecrawler. Animate Dead was added to go alongside Recurring Nightmare for those times when you cant seem to get a monster on board to pay for the sacrifice cost and can be played sooner when necessary. Lastly Tendrils can help to keep you alive when in the early game and can deal with threats you feel need more immediate attention.
1) Terramorphic Expanse is useless in your deck...you dont want lands coming into play tapped and you do not need to fix your colors...thinning your deck by 4 lands isnt worth it. If you want better lands, go for Cabal Coffers if you have the budget.
2) I'm not that much of a fan of the zombies you are playing except for Diregraf Colossus. Here are some that I would play if I made a zombie deck...
Carrion Feeder: Sacrifice any of the other recurring zombies to boost this one
Death Baron: This is one of good zombie lords
Fleshbag Marauder: You dont mind sacrifying stuff
Geralf's Messenger: This one is really good...especially if you have a way to bring it back
Ghoulraiser: Not that good but can come in handy
Gravecrawler: Really good...if you have Carrion Feeder in play, each black mana you spend adds a +1/+1 counter on the feeder
Gray Merchant of Asphodel: Sick card for any mono black deck. Also happens to be a zombie.
Korlash, Heir to Blackblade: Good even alone
Lord of the Undead: One of the good zombie lords
Nantuko Husk: Same as Carrion Feeder but with more punch
Phyrexian Ghoul: Same as Nantuko Husk
Relentless dead: Another zombie to sacrifice over and over to boost your creatures
Shepherd of Rot: If you plan to have a fast deck that ends the game quickly, with multiple opponents
Soulless one: Decent zombie
Unbreathing Horde: Decent zombie
Undead Warchief: one of the good zombie lords
Wight of Precinct Six: Decent zombie
Zombie master: Decent lord
Now with that out of the way ill go by category:(give or take this excerpt)
I dont think you understood the reason for the direction i was trying to go for with the key theme of the deck. I chose the creatures i did because of the token generation, typically in a multi-man duel(does MTG call it duels?) going for "ive got the biggest creature" strategies get you stuck in the situation of well i can kill one guy but then the rest of the players can pick you off so i was trying to get a setup where i can have a force that can attack and defend while keeping the creature count manageable(Grave Pact) and can deal with the pesky Ulamog plus indestructible gods my friends play.
Land:
I did feel like Terramorphic was a bit of a random and unnecessary tech, i guess i just figured with all the draw(Necromancer's Stockpile,Cryptbreaker) i wanted to reduce the chance of wasting it into a land even if only a little. As for Cabal Coffers that's a great suggestion(though a little pricey) since it more or less essentially doubles your mana count. My only concern since i haven't seen it used is that it might get a little bricky since its more or less useless until you get 4 swamps whereas the current choice thins the deck and is immediately useful although its benefits are definitely considerable.
Lords:
If keeping with the token theme i feel we could both agree that keeping the lords count to a minimum is key since they don't directly enhance the primary goal. First to chop is Master, swampwalk is super situational and a situation that will almost never come up and regenerate is just as useless since most creature removal ive faced is either exile or has the cant be regenerated clause. Undead Warchief and Lord of the Undead have their merits but ultimately there isnt currently a zombie worth wasting mana to bring to hand and all of the current mana costs are pretty low to begin with.I know you didnt name it but Lord of the Accursed and Death Baron both serve similar purposes and i like them both but i believe Accursed wins out since he essentially doubles your tokens when he grants menace.
Beat Sticks:
Feeder, Husk, and Ghoul i agree are pretty powerful cards but outside of an already in place token generating field will never see their potential and in the multi-man scenario they are a great way to open up your field for your opponent. Wight easily being the worst of the group since it requires your opponent(s) graveyard to be sufficiently set up. Unbreathing Horde/Soulless One in our group meta are the same exact card so well talk about the stronger and cheaper Horde, I have nothing bad to say about it its great at a 3 drop can get super strong without effort(especially with the tokens) and is virtually unkillable in battle all around good card and a serious debate about finding it a spot.
Tech?:
Shepherd of Rot is the easiest no since it states all players and that includes myself, my friends have lands that give life when played and some run Arborback Stomper esque cards so its an immediate disadvantage. Korlash, Heir to Blackblade sounds like such a great card! can become huge quickly without effort and the deck thinning is just perfect my only caveat is just that his best ability requires 3 cards in a 60 card deck to be in hand to be of any use, outside of some worries about the opening hand im having trouble coming up with a reason not to run him. Ghoulraiser inconsistent and superfluous(see lords). Gravecrawler seems like good card and combos nicely with Stockpile but not being able to block really hinders its uses. Merchant is a good card and its cost isnt even too big of a deal but i feel like its win-more without contribution to the strategy. Relentless Dead is an interesting card and with the sacrifice effects will likely get its effect off nicely but i feel like Dread Return does its job better. Fleshbag does follow the current effects but its sacrifice is mandatory and doesnt provide any real benefit like making tokens or gaining life. Last is Messenger, im super on the fence with this guy he has downsides being tapped and upsides dealing damage and bringing himself back which deals damage....he seems like a standalone card or more geared toward a revival deck.
That took far too long to type and think about. Again nothing said was to be argumentive or unappreciative, in fact it was said to give my opinions of the cards and choices in relation to the strategy ive attempted to build in hopes it could spark more accurate discussion and furthering of the build(I am well aware that limiting myself to my token strategy is in and of itself a hindrance and limits the potential strength of the deck going further). Luckily you commented when you did as i was about to start acquiring the cards this very night. A fortuitous turn of events indeed
Ideas:
1) an awesome finisher if you are ahead in the game with enough black mana to drain all the life they have left
or
2) the card that will kill them if you have a way to repeatedly bring it back from your graveyard every time it dies (Lord of the Undead ?)
or
3) a great lifedrain in multiplayer games and a blocker that will improve your chances of survival until you can get back in the game if you are behind.
As long as I'm not mana short, I'm always happy to draw a merchant in my mono-black deck...it's so obscenely strong that I only run 2 because 4 would be considered abusive by my playgroup.
Korlash, Heir to Blackblade is good, no matter if you draw 1 or 4...free Skyshroud claim for swamps are pretty rare in mono black decks.
Before the formal, Kain123 after replying i reread your post a few times and did some research on the cards you put forth and realized you were far more correct then myself. My original build was far too slow and fairly easy to pick apart with little to no power when power was needed. Merchant really got me thinking and i know this is a bit of a drastic change but inspiration took and i ran with it.
4 Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
2 Unbreathing Horde
3 Cryptbreaker
2 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
2 Diregraf Colossus
3 Gifted Aetherborn
4 Gravecrawler
2 Sheoldred, Whispering One
2 Grave Pact
3 Necromancer's Stockpile
Land
3 Phyrexian Tower
21 Swamp
Sorcery
4 Buried Alive
2 Reanimate
3 Dread Return
Before its mentioned i did indeed attempt cabal coffers(duel testing against aggressive AI using Forge) a few times and every time i had it, it was relatively lackluster until late in the game and would've served to be a normal swamp more often then not. I changed from the token army concept for what i believe to be a stronger force although interactions between Gravecrawler and Diregraf can lead to armies just as big if not bigger and faster then my original without an already set up field I.E. Ranks or the absurd ultimate of Liliana.
Thing that might not belong would be Gifted Aetherborn, but i realized Cryptbreaker became completely useless by turn 3 or 4 and could barely chump alongside Gravecrawler who cant block. She(?) helped alleviate the opening turns by providing a way to replenish health/create a bit of a opening threat although not being zombie may hurt her a little but so far its not usually a problem.
Buried Alive is such a beautiful card that thins the deck by three per and allows you to get the star of the deck Sheoldred, Whispering One and sets up for cheaper summoning due to the reanimation spells. Also allows you to get to your Gravecrawlers easily and can help alleviate the problems i felt Korlash brang. (also sets up for Merchant quite smoothly=P)
Let me know about the whole deck editing during discussion thing and i get things edited properly thanks. Kumlekar(wow just realized the innuendo there) thanks for chiming in i feel a reanimation package was just what i was missing and kudos you seem to roam these forums alot lol. Side note to you sir:Apocalypse and Death are great cards especially late game i might consider Apocalypse but sadly Death will be shelved i dont think i could deal with two Ulamogs in one duel.
Hope to see more input im burning to get this deck done thanks=D
Changes I would be doing if this was my deck...
1) I'd run Animate Dead or Necromancy over Reanimate or Dread return. I'd rather pay 1 for animate dead than life for reanimate...animate dead also allows me to get the Iona, Shield of Emeria that is laying in my opponent's graveyard.
2) Gifted aetherborn, Cryptbreaker feels like the weakest cards in your deck...you won't want these in the end game and it can be dealt with easily. If you want cards for the early game, Carion Feeder is a card that you would like early or late in the game...because you can abuse it's synergy with Gravecrawler. Otherwise, you could add some removal cards like Oath of Liliana to ensure some level of protection while adding a black mana symbol in play for your gray merchant or simply more Grave pact
I'd rather run 4 Diregraft Colossus than 2 colossus and 2 Unbreathing horde. The horde will quickly die to spot removal while the colossus can build an army before getting itself killed...i'd rather spread the strength around than focus everything at one place.
Geralf's messenger is also one of the best zombies that you left out...it's undying ability, come into play effect and synergy with the grey merchant will make this guy a pesky nuisance for your opponents....I was never disappointed even if it comes into play tapped.
1)That's a good idea i hate Reanimates drawback so much especially since i like it for a 7 drop O.o. Since you seem to be a long time player i ask wouldn't being connected to an enchantment cause my creature to be far more vulnerable? Its a little harder to use but do you think Recurring Nightmare might be a better replacement?(by the time i can Bury id have the mana to use Nightmare. As for Dread Return I really like the card cause of its flashback which can allow you to use it even before the 4 mana.
2)I agree Cryptbreaker is very sub par past the first 2 turns but he allows discards while gaining monsters. Example i drew Sheoldred on my opening hand well he can toss her to make a token which sets up the reanimation spell of choice to be live and can even throw Dread Return and create the creatures needed for its flashback. although in earnesty he does get some good draws later in the game since you cant block with gravecrawler especially when its still sick. As for Gifted in multiplayer duels having to wait till turn three for a creature to block is suicide I.E. Carrion Feeder or turn 4 Geralf's Messenger so i searched out 1 and 2 drops and shes was my favorite of the group.
Funny enough Diregraf was the cut back i made for Gifted Aetherborn. Ill see where i can fit in more Diregraf maybe one less Horde.(stupid cutback now that im looking at it more) as for Horde i really like its reilience to damage and potential to throw damage on the board. Make more edits after your opinions for the reanimation section thanks for your continued help and sorry im stubborn=(
2) *Just noticed that Sheoldred is actually a girl =)* My favorite black creature for early game defense is Baleful Strix but you sadly dont play blue =) ...I have no better suggestion for early game defense. In my playgroup it isnt so bad because we always play team games...2 vs 2 or 3 vs 3...we even have systems for 5 player games so they dont end up in a free for all brawl.
3) If you plan on running several Recurring Nightmare, you can run more creatures with abilities that can be used right away when they are reanimated or come into play effects or leave play effects such as Kokusho, the Evening Star, Griselbrand even if they arent zombies.
3 Bloodghast
2 Crypt Ghast
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
4 Abyssal Persecutor
2 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
3 Tetzimoc, Primal Death
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
1 Sepulchral Primordial
1 Griselbrand
1 Sol Ring
4 Skullclamp
Enchantments (2)
2 Necromancy
Spells (9)
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vona's Hunger
2 Hero's Downfall
4 Tendrils of Corruption
1 Rise of the Dark Realms
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Cabal Coffers
18 Swamp
The tendrils, gray merchant and kokusho nets me a lot of life which allow me to survive until i bring out some of my bigger cards. The fact that all my single-target removal cards are instants allow me to wait until an opponent actually attacks me to take out his creature...that way i can hold my removal for threats that are really against me and I can save my ressources when the threats are used against another opponent.
I realize we had a minor miscommunication when i said multiplayer which was my bad. My reason for needing opening turn monsters is my group tends to mostly play 3 and 4 player free for all more often then not so no teammate to fall back on for blocking and more people poking at your field per round.
Ive noticed one use of Griselbrand's effect puts you so far ahead its almost laughable and paired with Merchant its you tend to have more card and life then you started with.
Free for all is still a multiplayer game.
Griselbrand is indeed a strong creature...until someone Mindslaver you and kills you with it =)
I dont see the new version of your deck in the first post...the version I see in the first post is the same as the latest version I commented so i have nothing to add.
That be true but it is a fairly different dynamic compared to 2v2 and 3v3 since tapping your creatures out basically means your dead before your turn comes back around(its the reason why i had to scrap "mill" from being my second deck).
Demonic Tutor and Sol Ring would improve the deck
Skullclamp (if legal in your playgroup) is sick with Gravecrawler and you dont have that many cards that allow you to draw. Syphon mind is another option if skullclamp isnt legal.
If I had to name which card to remove from your deck, I'd say that Crypt Ghast is probably what I would remove. It's a great card and can be very useful but it's not a zombie, it doesnt have any come into play/leave play effect that you could abuse with Recurring Nightmare and even lesser removal cards (Shock) can kill it.
If you want the absolute ugliest card to abuse recurring nightmare with, it would be Sundering Titan...but if you play the nightmare and the titan together, your whole playgroup will want to burn you alive ...and they probably will =)
I initially wanted to use Demonic Tutor when i first started this deck since i came from playing Yugioh and we have the philosophy that deck thinning is deck winning lol but that 45 dollar price tag for a 4 of card is uh pretty rich( even currently according to this site the deck is sitting at 260 and i literally have to buy every single card)
After you posted your decklist i immediately threw in Skullclamp and loved the draws but it came at the cost of not having a monster to sacrifice for Recurring Nightmare. When testing it just felt like the two cards kept conflicting.
If you want more zombies, use Buried alive to put 3 Gravecrawler in your graveyard and cast them. They still cant block but they can be sacrificed in recurring nightmare or skullclamp. Better keep 1 in the graveyard in case they cast Merciless Eviction or something similar.
Remove 2 Crypt Ghast, 2 Animate Dead, 1 Diregraf Colossus and 1 Phyrexian Tower and add Sol Ring, Sepulchral Primordial and 4 Skullclamp
Sol Ring is restricted in vintage and banned in legacy as well.