Hey all.
This is my first post. I've lurked here for a few months soaking up deck ideas after having gotten back into MtG after an 11 year hiatus. But I have 2 deck ideas that I need a little help with because they just don't feel right.
They're both mono-U.
The first centers around Thing in the Ice. This is what I'm going to center this post around. I wanted to do something with this since I read an article on Arthur Fusco's Snap-Delver-Thing deck for Modern. I'm not much into Modern, so I sort of ported it into a Legacy-compliant form. And it feels a bit jank.
I want Thing in the Ice to be my wincon. Otherwise, I want to go into a tempo/control type otherwise. (Disclaimer: my understanding of what control is vs what tempo is is a bit fuzzy. So any help on that understanding is welcomed).
The Delvers are the big question. They are objectively good and more often than not I'm chipping away at opponents with those. Problem is, I have 4 and they're in my Legacy U/R Pyro Delver deck. That's a me problem though.
So my main questions are:
1. Can the Delvers get dropped? If so, for what? And if the wincon is Thing, does that make my threat density too low?
2. Am I tempo or control? What are some improvements to the spells portion of the deck I can make to power out a Thing faster?
Notes:
- I haven't played at my LGS yet, so I have no idea what the metagame is.
- Right now I'm goldfishing, but I have a few friends with casual decks I play against. So I'm not going up against Goyfs or Miracles or things like that.
- My knowledge of card sets post-Kamigawa is extremely limited, outside of netdecking winning Legacy decks. So I'm probably missing out on clever, cheap cards that don't see tourney play.
Any tips or tricks are welcomed. Feel free to ask me any questions to provide you more information.
18 lands is really not a lot for a control build. You are very likely to get stuck to only 2-3 lands.
This means you'll no longer be able to protect your creatures.
In this build you only have eight cards that can win you the game. Imagine playing against a white deck.
It can probably destroy/exile all your win conditions before you can do something about it.
Brainstorm is not that without shuffle effects. You only have Ponder to shuffle.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
These are the decks that I have constructed, and are ready to play:
01. Ankh Sligh to be exact.
Tempo decks are a kind of aggro deck which seeks to stick a threat and then cast spells that deny your opponent movement until you die, usually by trading away card advantage.
Control is the opposite. It seeks to grind the game to a halt by 1v1ing opponents cards and casting draw cards or bulk discard for advantage. A tempo deck cares less about relative hand sizes and more about life, control is all about card advantage. That having been said, tempo decks with broken card draw add to their end game and become more powerful.
You have most of a good tempo deck with a few bad cards added. You also lack the threats to be a tempo deck. What you need to do is take out cryptic, which this deck will never cast, drop to 16 islands (you can cut 1 for every two cantrips you run), Also cut brainstorm and echoing truth. Add in 4 Snap, 3 treasure cruise, and then 5 threats. Blue lacks anothe delver (thank god), but snapcaster could work, or lots of things with prowess.
Edit: if you are rich some split of true name nemesis aND vendillion clique is your addionline threats.
Thanks. That's very helpful. Especially that rule of thumb of 1 land for every 2 cantrips.
Anyway, on another note, what's a good fit for Cryptic Command? I've got 2 of them, and I want to shoehorn them into a deck. Obviously mono-U is the best fit. But what shell?
I have an idea for a Standstill/Manland type deck. But it isn't well formed yet.
In terms of other threats, what sort of more budget options might do well? TNN and Cliques are out of my price range.
Thanks. That's very helpful. Especially that rule of thumb of 1 land for every 2 cantrips.
Anyway, on another note, what's a good fit for Cryptic Command? I've got 2 of them, and I want to shoehorn them into a deck. Obviously mono-U is the best fit. But what shell?
I have an idea for a Standstill/Manland type deck. But it isn't well formed yet.
In terms of other threats, what sort of more budget options might do well? TNN and Cliques are out of my price range.
Cryptic Command is the consummate control spell, in that it counters a spell and then draws a card. That deck style is often draw-go, an archetype that combines blue with a splash for removal and focuses on delay and card advantage until you have locked your opponent out, then drops a single threat to ride to a win.
Your splash colors are going to be red, black or white. Red is weaker but has better early game, white is better midgame, black is the ultimate end game control option. Draw-Go is very unpopular to play against, because like a prison deck is sucks the fun out of the game.
UW Control is another idea I've had kicking around, but I just haven't put anything together. That's pretty helpful. I might make another thread later on once I decide to get into that. But as a rule, would draw-go function well with a Standstill engine, coupled with manlands (Faerie Conclave/Mishra's Factory?)
And yeah, what's the old saying? The amount of fun you're having is inversely proportional to the fun your opponent has!
I think you can get really far with mono-blue good cards.dec.
But for the optimal result, one will have to choose between pure tempo and pure control.
My advice would be to make multiple decks.
As for mono-blue and dealing with threats. Usually it is ignoring the smaller ones and then stabilizing the board.
I like Mishra's Factory as defense in draw-go. It is a 3/3 blocker and you can leave it open for your counterspells/draw.
Whelming Wave vs Wash out an interesting debate. Wash out is so bad when your opponent plays multiple colours.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
These are the decks that I have constructed, and are ready to play:
01. Ankh Sligh to be exact.
I sold my Darksteel Vials when I got back into the game several months ago. I think I picked a playset of them up when they came out for like $20 total. So I kinda laughed my way into an entire Pauper deck once I saw what they were going for. Needless to say, Vials are out.
I'm brewing a Standstill pure control deck. Standstill, Factories, Conclaves, Nev Disks. It is a separate deck though. The Cryptic Commands are going in it.
For now, Thing development is kinda at a standstill (unwarranted pun). So here's my list for Mono-U control:
This is my first post. I've lurked here for a few months soaking up deck ideas after having gotten back into MtG after an 11 year hiatus. But I have 2 deck ideas that I need a little help with because they just don't feel right.
They're both mono-U.
The first centers around Thing in the Ice. This is what I'm going to center this post around. I wanted to do something with this since I read an article on Arthur Fusco's Snap-Delver-Thing deck for Modern. I'm not much into Modern, so I sort of ported it into a Legacy-compliant form. And it feels a bit jank.
18x Island
Creatures
4x Thing in the Ice
4x Delver of Secrets
Spells
4x Brainstorm
2x Cryptic Command
4x Daze
4x Echoing Truth
4x Remand
4x Vapor Snag
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Ponder
4x Preordain
I want Thing in the Ice to be my wincon. Otherwise, I want to go into a tempo/control type otherwise. (Disclaimer: my understanding of what control is vs what tempo is is a bit fuzzy. So any help on that understanding is welcomed).
The Delvers are the big question. They are objectively good and more often than not I'm chipping away at opponents with those. Problem is, I have 4 and they're in my Legacy U/R Pyro Delver deck. That's a me problem though.
So my main questions are:
1. Can the Delvers get dropped? If so, for what? And if the wincon is Thing, does that make my threat density too low?
2. Am I tempo or control? What are some improvements to the spells portion of the deck I can make to power out a Thing faster?
Notes:
- I haven't played at my LGS yet, so I have no idea what the metagame is.
- Right now I'm goldfishing, but I have a few friends with casual decks I play against. So I'm not going up against Goyfs or Miracles or things like that.
- My knowledge of card sets post-Kamigawa is extremely limited, outside of netdecking winning Legacy decks. So I'm probably missing out on clever, cheap cards that don't see tourney play.
Any tips or tricks are welcomed. Feel free to ask me any questions to provide you more information.
This means you'll no longer be able to protect your creatures.
In this build you only have eight cards that can win you the game. Imagine playing against a white deck.
It can probably destroy/exile all your win conditions before you can do something about it.
Brainstorm is not that without shuffle effects. You only have Ponder to shuffle.
These are the decks that I have constructed, and are ready to play:
01. Ankh Sligh to be exact.
And what can I do in terms of creatures? I have Propagandas. Maybe add Wash Out too?
How does blue best deal with that sort of threat?
Control is the opposite. It seeks to grind the game to a halt by 1v1ing opponents cards and casting draw cards or bulk discard for advantage. A tempo deck cares less about relative hand sizes and more about life, control is all about card advantage. That having been said, tempo decks with broken card draw add to their end game and become more powerful.
You have most of a good tempo deck with a few bad cards added. You also lack the threats to be a tempo deck. What you need to do is take out cryptic, which this deck will never cast, drop to 16 islands (you can cut 1 for every two cantrips you run), Also cut brainstorm and echoing truth. Add in 4 Snap, 3 treasure cruise, and then 5 threats. Blue lacks anothe delver (thank god), but snapcaster could work, or lots of things with prowess.
Edit: if you are rich some split of true name nemesis aND vendillion clique is your addionline threats.
UB Wight Phantasm
RB Burn
UR Faerie Rites of Initiation
Legacy:
R Burn
CG-Post
Anyway, on another note, what's a good fit for Cryptic Command? I've got 2 of them, and I want to shoehorn them into a deck. Obviously mono-U is the best fit. But what shell?
I have an idea for a Standstill/Manland type deck. But it isn't well formed yet.
In terms of other threats, what sort of more budget options might do well? TNN and Cliques are out of my price range.
Cryptic Command is the consummate control spell, in that it counters a spell and then draws a card. That deck style is often draw-go, an archetype that combines blue with a splash for removal and focuses on delay and card advantage until you have locked your opponent out, then drops a single threat to ride to a win.
Your splash colors are going to be red, black or white. Red is weaker but has better early game, white is better midgame, black is the ultimate end game control option. Draw-Go is very unpopular to play against, because like a prison deck is sucks the fun out of the game.
Typical draw-go deck:
4 wrath of god
4 control magic
1 Dragonlord Ojutai
4 cryptic command
4 counterspell
2 dismiss
2 sphinx's revelation
4 ponder
4 preordain
3 think twice
24 lands
UB Wight Phantasm
RB Burn
UR Faerie Rites of Initiation
Legacy:
R Burn
CG-Post
And yeah, what's the old saying? The amount of fun you're having is inversely proportional to the fun your opponent has!
For beaters for mono U delver you want cheap, hard to kill beaters. For the monetarily cheap I like Rattlechains.
UB Wight Phantasm
RB Burn
UR Faerie Rites of Initiation
Legacy:
R Burn
CG-Post
T2: Standstill, with counter backup (Daze, FoW)
T3&...: Win
I think you can get really far with mono-blue good cards.dec.
But for the optimal result, one will have to choose between pure tempo and pure control.
My advice would be to make multiple decks.
As for mono-blue and dealing with threats. Usually it is ignoring the smaller ones and then stabilizing the board.
I like Mishra's Factory as defense in draw-go. It is a 3/3 blocker and you can leave it open for your counterspells/draw.
Whelming Wave vs Wash out an interesting debate. Wash out is so bad when your opponent plays multiple colours.
These are the decks that I have constructed, and are ready to play:
01. Ankh Sligh to be exact.
I'm brewing a Standstill pure control deck. Standstill, Factories, Conclaves, Nev Disks. It is a separate deck though. The Cryptic Commands are going in it.
For now, Thing development is kinda at a standstill (unwarranted pun). So here's my list for Mono-U control:
10x Island
4x Wasteland
4x Mishra's Factory
2x Faerie Conclave
4x Flooded Strand
4x Brainstorm
4x Standstill
3x Fact or Fiction
Counter
4x Counterspell
2x Cryptic Command
4x Force of Will
4x Mana Leak
4x Vapor Snag
2x Misdirection
2x Propaganda
3x Nevinyrral's Disk
I considered going UW, because I have a pair of Humilitys. But I love Nev's Disk and I don't want to bother with mana fixing.