Is it wrong to play expensive cards in casual? I recently was playing my standard deck in the more casual of my two playgroups, because I didn't have any other decks on me, and after winning they attributed it to the fact that I was playing expensive cards. I don't make that much money and have either packed or traded for 95% of the cards I own. I also have spent quite some time practicing and working on my skills and recently have started to place top 4 at my LCS. So I have two questions: are they just being butthurt that they lost? and is it generally considered wrong to play more competitive decks that are designed for 1v1 in larger more casual groups?
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They are indeed butt-hurt, as are most people who lose then have the sand to point out something you did as the reason they lost. Of course it's your fault they lost, that's the point of the game. To say anything about expense: it's no secret that standard is an extremely costly format, so in essence, you're playing with cards that for the most part are at their most expensive point (unless they're reprints and blah blah blah). Casual is a VAST format, as it incorporates all cards in the game, so the mere fact that you beat the **** out of them with ONLY 'new' cards (i.e. only cards that abide to the *extremely* strict law of standard [in this case]), is a feat in itself; pat yourself on the back my friend.
All in all, your friends are angry you ripped their faces off and made chair doilies out of them and haven't matured enough to the point of seeing that they are at fault, not you. On that note, I say cheers to you, may you continue whipping their bums until they wizen up and acquire some better cards, skills, and attitudes. Unless they are new to the game, in which case don't be as mean to them as I just said to, lol.
In my experience (of playing 100% consistently at least twice per week in formats including standard, modern, commander, cube, casual, pauper and peasant since 2012), since I restarted playing (at the age of 24 when Innistrad came out; up from originally playing as a child from Mirage to Darksteel), the vast majority of people I play against are not beginners. Most of them know what they're doing, have the right cards, their decks are coherent, and have a competitive attitude. If anything, you are upping the standard of cards in your playgroup, and in essence that is a good thing because it forces your opponents to try new things and delve deeper into how they can up their chances of winning. In essence, unless they're so butthurt that they refuse to play with you and can't manage to compile a sideboard, you are teaching them how to be a better player in the long run by making them give more of a **** about winning at the magics. I mean, it's just a game, anyone who gets butthurt about that is a ***** to begin with, but if you can take a mentor/teacher role; you can increase the positive energy and fun across the board. Then again, you haven't revealed how you're beating them, but unless you're using an infinite combo or something generally considered 'cheap and not-fun to play against because it controls the game to a point where I have little to no control over my cards/turn/abilities', I wouldn't worry about your friends. Find stronger opponents, like in pokemon.
Cost does not necessarily correlate to power. Take Thragtusk as an example. It was almost $25 at its peak in Standard, and is certainly strong--it can provide a lot of value, and can do a lot of work in helping to stabilize a situation. However, in a casual environment, it might not be so strong when people are hardcasting Emrakul on T4, milling the opponent out on T4, swarming the field with strong tribal decks, countering every spell, and so on.
At the core, your opponents are thinking the opposite of the above theory. They believe that your cards are more powerful because they are expensive.
I personally believe that they can have a point. While Thragtusk may not be a very powerful card depending on context, something like Glimpse the Unthinkable is obscenely strong in almost all situations. The same can be said for such over-the-top cards as Geist of Saint Traft, Doubling Season, or Tooth and Nail. If you are consistently winning because of such cards, your friends may be justified in claiming that you're crutching on money.
On the other hand, I'm not a fan of anyone complaining about powerful cards. Everything in Magic has an answer--Geist is stopped by the $0.10 uncommon Tribute to Hunger, Glimpse does nothing against Wheel of Sun and Moon, and Doubling Season is neutered by Naturalize. Even the Eldrazi are not invincible--it's up to the player to discover and utilize the best answers to certain cards and situations. Your opponents are not realizing this key fact and are being too lazy to work around the problems that you are presenting to them.
I would challenge you to build a deck where none of the cards are particularly expensive, and play with that. In this way, you can demonstrate that you are relying on strong synergies and personal play skill rather than one or two expensive cards. Just be sure to keep it interactive and fun--don't do something non-interactive like MBC or Statis, or you'll have a whole new set of problems.
Unless your group has an existing agreement to only use budget cards in casual games, you did nothing wrong. I've been noticing lately that there are a lot of people who look at a card or deck and proclaim "that's too powerful/expensive/unfair for casual, shame on anyone who uses it!" It's a very poor attitude and it is really starting to get under my skin. Just because "casual" may mean "budget only", or "no tourney decks" to one group doesn't mean that applies to someone else's group. I've played casual games using decks that are under $10, and I've played casual games where the only restrictions are whatever you can afford. Only want to spend $50 on a deck? It can be a casual deck if you say so. Spent upwards of $4000 on a fully powered, pimped out deck? It's casual if that's what you want it to be. Casual is not an official format, it has no rules, no B&R list, and any house rules are determined by the individual group in question. Personally, our group only has two rules for casual games: play whatever deck you like, and don't be a dick. We all play with the understanding that we're there to have fun together, but we acknowledge that fun can mean different things for different people.
If your group really dislikes the way you play, and you're willing to accommodate them, look at setting down some house rules that everyone can agree upon. Personally, it sounds like your friends are being sore losers, and would rather drag your play down than forcing theirs to rise to the occasion.
You play with multiple groups, one is competitive and the other casual, and you are confused as to why the casual group is butthurt you showed up with a deck you normally don't play there and stomped them?
There has got to be more to this story, because if I showed up the family rec pickup flag football game in full pads and cleats, I am sure there would be some confusion and (eventual) butthurt. Explaining that "this is the way football is meant to be played" and "this is how I play with my other friends" would not help the situation.
I am sure if you approach the casual group with grace and civility and bring their game up it'll work out. I would highly discourage calling them all pussies and telling them to grow up as you steamroll your top four Jund deck on a tableful of Killer Bees.
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IRL, I still say that your friends are narrow-minded and have misplaced the blame. Perhaps you should swap in an inexpensive yet extremely OP card like Dark Ritual, Rancor, Counterspell, Martyr of Sands, Lightning Bolt, etc., and see what they say. My point is that when your friends are deciding what's OP and what's not, where does it end? It ends with you losing every game because they decide what's ok to use.
My play group hate the fact I play counterspells... they aren't even expensive... and I am using standard counterspells.
Not even counterspell or mana leak.
My deck only has 4 counterspells in it (counters are bad in standard) and they carry on as if I am going to counter every spell they cast. so butt hurt. My deck has 2 planewalkers and a bunch of shocklands... but they hate the counterspells more than the money cards.
I keep trying to tell them counterspells are part of the game and you are going to have to learn to play around them. Go buy city of solitude if you hate them so much do something other than complaining about them.
I built two rareless decks.... to try and go down to thier level... but... not to brag.. compared to them I am a very good deck builder.
Deck 1.. Gruul smash.. 4 ghor-clan rampager 4 burning tree and a bunch of bears and survana lions and 3 power two drops.
and I can slaughter them with these as well. making decks with less money doesn't mean you aren't going to beat them if you are simply more experienced and better at the game including deck building.
Hm. I don't have many issues with such things, but I guess the P9 would be among these. If someone wants to play casual MtG with P9 in deck... I might just set about unbanning and unrestricting whatever I feel like in response, and build something truly obnoxious. Which, generally, I try to avoid doing, mostly. The reasoning here is that the person in question clearly doesn't care about fairness even slightly. So neither will I, at that stage.
But sure, bring on the old duals, anything ELSE allowable - whether 1 of or 4 of - in Vintage, etc., etc.
So... close to Legacy, but a bit more lenient if necessary. That's where I'm comfortable. For the most part, I personally will play Legacy-legal decks out of preference, but others may do as they wish of course.
On the topic of Powerful cards, I realized today that I naturally gravitate towards hating proxy-decks in a multiplayer setting. I can't help but go after the guy that is struggling to pilot his 75%+ proxy deck in a 3-5 player game; even as he is putting down his proxied dual lands and creatures, I tend to solely go after the ones proxying.
"Guys, the fun you're having is bad and wrong, you should all play my way instead" is not friendly behavior. It doesn't matter if you're beating down a bunch of casual players with your Vintage deck or if you're bring your Lord of the Rings theme deck to a Legacy table. If everyone else is having fun playing their way, they're not doing anything wrong. And if they stop having fun when you sit down at the table, they're not the ones causing the problem.
This isn't to say that you shouldn't encourage them to play stronger/smarter/harder, or that you should play decks that are weaker than you feel comfortable with. But if you and the members of the casual playgroup can't agree on what's fun, you should stick with your other playgroup and let the casual group continue to have fun, rather than decrease the fun of multiple friends for your own sake.
Just to be clear, this isn't meant as some sort of "You're a bad person for wanting to play with your good cards!" screed. There's nothing wrong with that. But sometimes someone just isn't a good fit for a playgroup, and that looks like it may be the case here, to the same degree that one of the players in your casual group would probably be a bad fit in the more competitive playgroup. No harm, no foul, as long as everyone acknowledges that each player's approach for the game is right for that player but not necessarily right for anyone else.
"Guys, the fun you're having is bad and wrong, you should all play my way instead" is not friendly behavior. It doesn't matter if you're beating down a bunch of casual players with your Vintage deck or if you're bring your Lord of the Rings theme deck to a Legacy table. If everyone else is having fun playing their way, they're not doing anything wrong. And if they stop having fun when you sit down at the table, they're not the ones causing the problem.
This isn't to say that you shouldn't encourage them to play stronger/smarter/harder, or that you should play decks that are weaker than you feel comfortable with. But if you and the members of the casual playgroup can't agree on what's fun, you should stick with your other playgroup and let the casual group continue to have fun, rather than decrease the fun of multiple friends for your own sake.
Just to be clear, this isn't meant as some sort of "You're a bad person for wanting to play with your good cards!" screed. There's nothing wrong with that. But sometimes someone just isn't a good fit for a playgroup, and that looks like it may be the case here, to the same degree that one of the players in your casual group would probably be a bad fit in the more competitive playgroup. No harm, no foul, as long as everyone acknowledges that each player's approach for the game is right for that player but not necessarily right for anyone else.
Ding ding ding! This is the correct answer. Casual magic is a format whose restrictions are solely defined by your playgroup. The people saying "no, your friends are scrubs" simply don't get it.
The price of the cards usually doesn't make a big difference but the access to thousands of cards to build a highly synergistic and powerful deck even if made from cheap cards can create a huge strength gap. That's where the problem lie. If you play 4 Juzám Djinn and 4 Imperial Recruiter no one will care but if you play only a single Time Vault in your deck they'll care. If you play 4 Goblin Recruiter and 4 Food Chain they'll care even if your deck is cheap.
If they play out of the 500 cards they got from their big brother and their best card is Craw Wurm, they'll get crushed by anything you can build. Just take into account who you play against when you build your deck.
For the records, I do use power and people are impressed when I play it. Even more when I lend it to them. Power doesn't make that big a difference in multiplayer games unless you build for it to matter.
I don't care about the price tag. Power of a card matters more than it's price. Tolarian Academy is cheap compare to many hardcore cards but that doesn't make it more acceptable than, say, Tarmogoyf.
I talk with my group before I play. If they got competitive decks I will grab my own. If not, I'll grab a theme deck. Understand though, there will always be people complaining. One time I met someone snapped at my Control deck, argue that Counterspell of any kind should be banned from casual, which was nonsense to the roots. Communication > all.
I've never understood the whole "Too strong/expensive for casual argument". It's all relative to your play group. I'm fortunate that my groupd is fine with broken cards and combos: see Skullclamp, Survival of the Fittest, Balance etc (I could give a much larger list, but you get the point). Would I be able to comfortably play those cards in every casual group out there without people rage quitting? Probably not (but I still would :D).
That said, I do think it requires a bit of common sense and decency. If you have a deck that can consistently curb-stomp almost every other deck in your group, then I would use it sparingly (or allow someone to borrow another deck you may own of equal power if that's an option).
On the other hand, if you have one person in your group who is either a) a newer player or b) on a significatnly lower budget, then I would maybe make some less powerful decks so they don't feel oppressed, and offer to let them use one of your decks (most people should not be offened by this; I've been on a very limited budget for the past few months and I am more then happy to use a friends deck if mine isn't working for a given situation).
All in all, your friends are angry you ripped their faces off and made chair doilies out of them and haven't matured enough to the point of seeing that they are at fault, not you. On that note, I say cheers to you, may you continue whipping their bums until they wizen up and acquire some better cards, skills, and attitudes. Unless they are new to the game, in which case don't be as mean to them as I just said to, lol.
In my experience (of playing 100% consistently at least twice per week in formats including standard, modern, commander, cube, casual, pauper and peasant since 2012), since I restarted playing (at the age of 24 when Innistrad came out; up from originally playing as a child from Mirage to Darksteel), the vast majority of people I play against are not beginners. Most of them know what they're doing, have the right cards, their decks are coherent, and have a competitive attitude. If anything, you are upping the standard of cards in your playgroup, and in essence that is a good thing because it forces your opponents to try new things and delve deeper into how they can up their chances of winning. In essence, unless they're so butthurt that they refuse to play with you and can't manage to compile a sideboard, you are teaching them how to be a better player in the long run by making them give more of a **** about winning at the magics. I mean, it's just a game, anyone who gets butthurt about that is a ***** to begin with, but if you can take a mentor/teacher role; you can increase the positive energy and fun across the board. Then again, you haven't revealed how you're beating them, but unless you're using an infinite combo or something generally considered 'cheap and not-fun to play against because it controls the game to a point where I have little to no control over my cards/turn/abilities', I wouldn't worry about your friends. Find stronger opponents, like in pokemon.
At the core, your opponents are thinking the opposite of the above theory. They believe that your cards are more powerful because they are expensive.
I personally believe that they can have a point. While Thragtusk may not be a very powerful card depending on context, something like Glimpse the Unthinkable is obscenely strong in almost all situations. The same can be said for such over-the-top cards as Geist of Saint Traft, Doubling Season, or Tooth and Nail. If you are consistently winning because of such cards, your friends may be justified in claiming that you're crutching on money.
On the other hand, I'm not a fan of anyone complaining about powerful cards. Everything in Magic has an answer--Geist is stopped by the $0.10 uncommon Tribute to Hunger, Glimpse does nothing against Wheel of Sun and Moon, and Doubling Season is neutered by Naturalize. Even the Eldrazi are not invincible--it's up to the player to discover and utilize the best answers to certain cards and situations. Your opponents are not realizing this key fact and are being too lazy to work around the problems that you are presenting to them.
I would challenge you to build a deck where none of the cards are particularly expensive, and play with that. In this way, you can demonstrate that you are relying on strong synergies and personal play skill rather than one or two expensive cards. Just be sure to keep it interactive and fun--don't do something non-interactive like MBC or Statis, or you'll have a whole new set of problems.
GW Tokens GW || UB UB Control UB || BRG Jund Aggro BRG || UR Wee Dragonauts Tempo UR || BG Fungus/Saproling BG || W Soldiers W ||
GWU Bant Flicker Gun GWU
Under Construction
U Wizards Tribal Control U || RG MLD Trolling RG
If your group really dislikes the way you play, and you're willing to accommodate them, look at setting down some house rules that everyone can agree upon. Personally, it sounds like your friends are being sore losers, and would rather drag your play down than forcing theirs to rise to the occasion.
There has got to be more to this story, because if I showed up the family rec pickup flag football game in full pads and cleats, I am sure there would be some confusion and (eventual) butthurt. Explaining that "this is the way football is meant to be played" and "this is how I play with my other friends" would not help the situation.
I am sure if you approach the casual group with grace and civility and bring their game up it'll work out. I would highly discourage calling them all pussies and telling them to grow up as you steamroll your top four Jund deck on a tableful of Killer Bees.
Set a man on fire, he is warm for the rest of his life.
IRL, I still say that your friends are narrow-minded and have misplaced the blame. Perhaps you should swap in an inexpensive yet extremely OP card like Dark Ritual, Rancor, Counterspell, Martyr of Sands, Lightning Bolt, etc., and see what they say. My point is that when your friends are deciding what's OP and what's not, where does it end? It ends with you losing every game because they decide what's ok to use.
Not even counterspell or mana leak.
My deck only has 4 counterspells in it (counters are bad in standard) and they carry on as if I am going to counter every spell they cast. so butt hurt. My deck has 2 planewalkers and a bunch of shocklands... but they hate the counterspells more than the money cards.
I keep trying to tell them counterspells are part of the game and you are going to have to learn to play around them. Go buy city of solitude if you hate them so much do something other than complaining about them.
I built two rareless decks.... to try and go down to thier level... but... not to brag.. compared to them I am a very good deck builder.
Deck 1.. Gruul smash.. 4 ghor-clan rampager 4 burning tree and a bunch of bears and survana lions and 3 power two drops.
Deck 2... Call of the zubats(esper tokens)..... 4 lingering souls.. 4 intagable virtue, 4 tragic slip 4 cartel aristocrat, 4 azious charm.
and I can slaughter them with these as well. making decks with less money doesn't mean you aren't going to beat them if you are simply more experienced and better at the game including deck building.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
But sure, bring on the old duals, anything ELSE allowable - whether 1 of or 4 of - in Vintage, etc., etc.
So... close to Legacy, but a bit more lenient if necessary. That's where I'm comfortable. For the most part, I personally will play Legacy-legal decks out of preference, but others may do as they wish of course.
This isn't to say that you shouldn't encourage them to play stronger/smarter/harder, or that you should play decks that are weaker than you feel comfortable with. But if you and the members of the casual playgroup can't agree on what's fun, you should stick with your other playgroup and let the casual group continue to have fun, rather than decrease the fun of multiple friends for your own sake.
Just to be clear, this isn't meant as some sort of "You're a bad person for wanting to play with your good cards!" screed. There's nothing wrong with that. But sometimes someone just isn't a good fit for a playgroup, and that looks like it may be the case here, to the same degree that one of the players in your casual group would probably be a bad fit in the more competitive playgroup. No harm, no foul, as long as everyone acknowledges that each player's approach for the game is right for that player but not necessarily right for anyone else.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Ding ding ding! This is the correct answer. Casual magic is a format whose restrictions are solely defined by your playgroup. The people saying "no, your friends are scrubs" simply don't get it.
If they play out of the 500 cards they got from their big brother and their best card is Craw Wurm, they'll get crushed by anything you can build. Just take into account who you play against when you build your deck.
For the records, I do use power and people are impressed when I play it. Even more when I lend it to them. Power doesn't make that big a difference in multiplayer games unless you build for it to matter.
I talk with my group before I play. If they got competitive decks I will grab my own. If not, I'll grab a theme deck. Understand though, there will always be people complaining. One time I met someone snapped at my Control deck, argue that Counterspell of any kind should be banned from casual, which was nonsense to the roots. Communication > all.
I've never understood the whole "Too strong/expensive for casual argument". It's all relative to your play group. I'm fortunate that my groupd is fine with broken cards and combos: see Skullclamp, Survival of the Fittest, Balance etc (I could give a much larger list, but you get the point). Would I be able to comfortably play those cards in every casual group out there without people rage quitting? Probably not (but I still would :D).
That said, I do think it requires a bit of common sense and decency. If you have a deck that can consistently curb-stomp almost every other deck in your group, then I would use it sparingly (or allow someone to borrow another deck you may own of equal power if that's an option).
On the other hand, if you have one person in your group who is either a) a newer player or b) on a significatnly lower budget, then I would maybe make some less powerful decks so they don't feel oppressed, and offer to let them use one of your decks (most people should not be offened by this; I've been on a very limited budget for the past few months and I am more then happy to use a friends deck if mine isn't working for a given situation).
U FaerieNinjaStandstill U
B Swag Flu B
In Development
BG Nightmare Survival GB
B The Gate B
BRG Jund GRB