I was hoping for some help making a deck that utilizes one of my latest purchases, a playset of Lotleth Troll. I would also like the deck to be Modern legal. It will be played in my casual group, so meta varies and does not reflect the current top-tier Modern deck necessarily.
I'll be frank; you've taken the teeth out of this deck and I don't think that it'll prove to be overly impressive. The Crawler + Vengevine combination is what gave the deck its ludicrous speed and power and so what you're left with is a deck full of enablers but nothing to enable. While I can certainly see you stealing some wins with some solid Demigod draws, I don't see how you're going to cement the rest of them. Your best sources of consistent damage (DR Shaman being one of them) are all gone after all. G.Salvage is no Faithless Looting either. Looting enables multiple dredges later on which often mills 9-10 cards into your GY per cast (2 casts total). That's sooooooo much better than a card that draws 1 and mills 4. It also can't be used if it's milled but Looting can always be flashed back. Looting is also better against counters because they have to hit both sides to prevent you from "going off." If they counter your Salvage then you might be left high and dry for a considerable time.
Still, I can provide you with some generic advice.
Slitherhead and Dregscape Zombie should both be cut in my mind. They are extremely low impact cards that won't really accomplish anything. I'm not a huge fan of the Chants either but I suppose that they're in there for Demigod recursion? I'm not in love with that plan but I'm not really up to speed with good Modern recursion given that Dread Return is banned. Frankly I doubt that there's a single "playable" revival spell in the format. Your cards have to matter and these ones just plain don't. A random 2 damage or a +1/+1 counter off of a dredge isn't worth drawing a useless card in a very high % of your games.
If you want this to be a Demigod deck then you're going to have to bump the land count up. 23 sources is quite low, especially since 3 of them are vulnerable to most forms of removal. I'd personally shuffle up a few games with 26 (including the BoPs) and see how the list fares.
Barring that, Mulch may be worth looking at. It digs for lands and fills your graveyard; 2 valuable assets in a list like this. I still believe that you'll probably need more than 20 lands to consistently cast Demigods though. I basically think that you have to be all-in on the Demigod plan because the list doesn't realistically have much else going for it. Demigod is your best chance to win games by far and so you should support him to the best of your abilities in my mind.
Well, I basically took Vengevine out of the list and added the Demigods knowing I might have some mana issues with the land count. I have no issue taking them out if I can think of something better. I even considered adding cards like Splinterfright and Jarad also, but I don't get any value from them if they are dredged compared to Unearth creatures.
I could take out some weak cards as you mentioned, add red, and get Faithless Looting/Grim Lavamancer/etc...Maybe that would make it more viable?
I could also just skip the dredge route and go for more of a crappy Jund deck I guess. Lotleth Troll is what I hope to focus the deck on.
Ghoulcaller's Chant was actually to grab Zombies out of my graveyard that ended up there. I could then cast them or re-sac to Lotleth Troll. Seemed like a good idea in my head at least. Could lead to explosive plays or at least get creatures in my hand I needed.
I basically took Vengevine out of the list and added the Demigods knowing I might have some mana issues with the land count. I have no issue taking them out if I can think of something better. I even considered adding cards like Splinterfright and Jarad also, but I don't get any value from them if they are dredged compared to Unearth creatures.
That's not true for Jarad but he's not the easiest guy to work with. Saccing 2 lands is a real cost, especially when it requires using basic lands and/or Overgrown Tombs and such. I don't have any ideas with respect to alternative solutions.
I could take out some weak cards as you mentioned, add red, and get Faithless Looting/Grim Lavamancer/etc...Maybe that would make it more viable?
Depends on what you'd use for mana. Modern isn't cheap and there aren't a ton of great, budget ways to fix your mana. I guess it depends on how slow (or inconsistent) you're willing to have the list be.
Lavamancer is interesting though. He can't ramp you which sucks but he does own creatures. Still, so does Darkblast, so it seems kinda pointless to pursue this route.
Ghoulcaller's Chant was actually to grab Zombies out of my graveyard that ended up there. I could then cast them or re-sac to Lotleth Troll. Seemed like a good idea in my head at least.
What Zombies do you want in your hand and not in your GY? I dunno, this just seems kinda pointless to me.
For lands, I basically have everything except for shocks and fetches. I have pain lands, filter lands, fast lands, City of BrAss,Gemstone Mine, etc...
Well, I was thinking I could grab 2x Slitherhead from my graveyard, for a Ghoulcaller's Chant example, and then sac them to a Lotleth Troll and then Scavenge, giving 4 counters. Or, it could simply be used to get the Lotleth Troll I need out of the graveyard or Demigod, etc...I am not even trying to defend it really, I was just trying it out and hoping for some feedback about it.
This list is a Carrion Feeder short of making those kinds of cards work in my opinion. While the dream scenarios of Troll + multiple Slitherheads + Chant is something it will occur so infrequently that it's not even worth discussing in my mind. The real issue is all the games where you'll draw these kinds of do-nothing cards that have little-to-no inherent value and that don't progress your deck's primary gameplan.
Perhaps it might be worthwhile to consider building some sort of Bloodthrone Vampire deck or something. That might be something closer to what you're looking for if you want to keep running all of these cheap, low-impact creatures and revival spells.
As you can see, no vengevines of other expensive stuff aside from the manabase.
Fauna shaman allows you to fetch for a win or a removal spell or anything. You can also discard a dredge creature, fetch a street wraith and dredge some more!
Undertaker allows you to recycle your stuff. He's like a modern legal tortured existence, but more costly and more fragile so only 2.
I like grisly salvage, it's not as good as loothing but it is a fair comprise if you want to stick with 2 colors. The ability to hit your 3rd land is pretty useful as this deck needs 3 lands, sometimes 4, to function.
You win with huge splinterfrights or Jarad or troll beats. The deck works pretty well without gy hate.
Darkblast is a house in this format, so i feel x4 is the right number.
Birds is actually very bad here. What will you accelerate into? You need a minimal amount of setup for the deck to start working. Also, demigod is slow and its cost is harsh on a green/black manabase.
How aggressive are you when discarding creatures to Lotleth Troll? Does it depend on the match up?
The necroplasm singleton is here to destroy tokens. Since he has zero counters the turn he's brought into play, at the end step he destroys all creatures costing zero (tokens). He's not mandatory but in my meta full of lingering souls/spectral procession he can be quite helpful. The fact that he's an additional dredger also help his cause. He has to be used with care though, because he will eventually kill all 2 drops/3 drops.
Discarding stuff to loltroll can be tricky, it mostly depends on the board state and the matchup. I will usually be conservative with him discarding only creatures that are useful when in the graveyard, to avoid blowouts, especially if my opponent plays lots of removal that breaks through regenerate (path to exile, terminate). If fauna shaman/undertaker are active, i will be more aggressive as they allow me to recover discarded creatures as long as i have a dredger in the graveyard.
I'm not sure what budget you're on, but getting a life from the loam would probably be helpful. even just one lets you dredge it to your grave then bring it back and start using it. It has a nice interaction with the troll as well as dredging and getting you lands.
Currently Taking altered art Comissions. www.nf96alters.webs.com
Quick and Cheap Alters (looking to fill up some slots so some special pricing currently)
I'm not sure what budget you're on, but getting a life from the loam would probably be helpful. even just one lets you dredge it to your grave then bring it back and start using it. It has a nice interaction with the troll as well as dredging and getting you lands.
I don't see the interaction between life from the loam and lotleth troll since troll can only discard creature cards... BUT if you play a couple of dryad arbors, that's a different story
I don't see the interaction between life from the loam and lotleth troll since troll can only discard creature cards... BUT if you play a couple of dryad arbors, that's a different story
There isn't an interaction of LFtL and Troll, just that Dredge tends to send a lot of cards into the 'yard and Loam could be abused then. Loam would be a great addition to this deck. 2 would be perfect.
Have you though of using Anathemancer? You wouldn't need to go into the red with him since most Modern decks are heavy in the non-basic dept. Squee could be used for counters as well. I would drop Slitherhead for these cards. Darkblast is usually great at 1 since it continued to recur.
You should know that Golgari Grave Troll is banned in Modern.
I am also on a budget. I do not have Deathrite Shaman, Vengevines, Gravecrawlers, or shocklands
Here is a deck that I found interesting:
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Dregscape Zombie
2 Extractor Demon
2 Golgari Thug
4 Gravecrawler
4 Lotleth Troll
3 Rotting Rats
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Vengevine
2 Darkblast
4 Faithless Looting
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
2 Dakmor Salvage
1 Godless Shrine
3 Marsh Flats
4 Overgrown Tomb
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
Here is my take on it by making it just BG. If you think red is needed, please help me with a mana base:
3x Birds of Paradise
4x Bloodghast
4x Demigod of Revenge
2x Dregscape Zombie
2x Extractor Demon
2x Golgari Thug
4x Lotleth Troll
3x Rotting Rats
4x Slitherhead
4x Stinkweed Imp
2x City of Brass
2x Dakmor Salvage
4x Llanowar Wastes
6x Swamp
4x Twilight Mire
2x Woodland Cemetery
2x Darkblast
4x Grisly Salvage
Sorcery (2)
2x Ghoulcaller's Chant
Thoughts? I am not so sure about the Birds of Paradise and Demigod of Revenge. I am almost tempted to add some Splinterfright and maybe up the amount of Ghoulcaller's Chant. Maybe more zombies like Putrid Leech?
All comments appreciated! Modern and budget please.
Sales Thread!
Still, I can provide you with some generic advice.
Slitherhead and Dregscape Zombie should both be cut in my mind. They are extremely low impact cards that won't really accomplish anything. I'm not a huge fan of the Chants either but I suppose that they're in there for Demigod recursion? I'm not in love with that plan but I'm not really up to speed with good Modern recursion given that Dread Return is banned. Frankly I doubt that there's a single "playable" revival spell in the format. Your cards have to matter and these ones just plain don't. A random 2 damage or a +1/+1 counter off of a dredge isn't worth drawing a useless card in a very high % of your games.
If you want this to be a Demigod deck then you're going to have to bump the land count up. 23 sources is quite low, especially since 3 of them are vulnerable to most forms of removal. I'd personally shuffle up a few games with 26 (including the BoPs) and see how the list fares.
Barring that, Mulch may be worth looking at. It digs for lands and fills your graveyard; 2 valuable assets in a list like this. I still believe that you'll probably need more than 20 lands to consistently cast Demigods though. I basically think that you have to be all-in on the Demigod plan because the list doesn't realistically have much else going for it. Demigod is your best chance to win games by far and so you should support him to the best of your abilities in my mind.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Well, I basically took Vengevine out of the list and added the Demigods knowing I might have some mana issues with the land count. I have no issue taking them out if I can think of something better. I even considered adding cards like Splinterfright and Jarad also, but I don't get any value from them if they are dredged compared to Unearth creatures.
I could take out some weak cards as you mentioned, add red, and get Faithless Looting/Grim Lavamancer/etc...Maybe that would make it more viable?
I could also just skip the dredge route and go for more of a crappy Jund deck I guess. Lotleth Troll is what I hope to focus the deck on.
Ghoulcaller's Chant was actually to grab Zombies out of my graveyard that ended up there. I could then cast them or re-sac to Lotleth Troll. Seemed like a good idea in my head at least. Could lead to explosive plays or at least get creatures in my hand I needed.
Sales Thread!
That's not true for Jarad but he's not the easiest guy to work with. Saccing 2 lands is a real cost, especially when it requires using basic lands and/or Overgrown Tombs and such. I don't have any ideas with respect to alternative solutions.
Depends on what you'd use for mana. Modern isn't cheap and there aren't a ton of great, budget ways to fix your mana. I guess it depends on how slow (or inconsistent) you're willing to have the list be.
Lavamancer is interesting though. He can't ramp you which sucks but he does own creatures. Still, so does Darkblast, so it seems kinda pointless to pursue this route.
The Troll isn't even very good in Jund so that doesn't seem like a great way to go about it.
What Zombies do you want in your hand and not in your GY? I dunno, this just seems kinda pointless to me.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Well, I was thinking I could grab 2x Slitherhead from my graveyard, for a Ghoulcaller's Chant example, and then sac them to a Lotleth Troll and then Scavenge, giving 4 counters. Or, it could simply be used to get the Lotleth Troll I need out of the graveyard or Demigod, etc...I am not even trying to defend it really, I was just trying it out and hoping for some feedback about it.
Sales Thread!
Perhaps it might be worthwhile to consider building some sort of Bloodthrone Vampire deck or something. That might be something closer to what you're looking for if you want to keep running all of these cheap, low-impact creatures and revival spells.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
4 lotleth troll
4 fauna shaman
2 undertaker
1 necroplasm
4 splinterfright
4 stinkweed imp
2 fleshbag marauder
1 Jarad, golgari lich lord
4 street wraith
2 shriekmaw
1 vengeful pharaoh
4 darkblast
4 grisly salvage
1 gnaw to the bone
lands: 22
2 dryad arbor
4 overgrown tomb
4 verdant catacombs
1 Svogthos, the restless tomb
3 forest
8 swamp
As you can see, no vengevines of other expensive stuff aside from the manabase.
Fauna shaman allows you to fetch for a win or a removal spell or anything. You can also discard a dredge creature, fetch a street wraith and dredge some more!
Undertaker allows you to recycle your stuff. He's like a modern legal tortured existence, but more costly and more fragile so only 2.
I like grisly salvage, it's not as good as loothing but it is a fair comprise if you want to stick with 2 colors. The ability to hit your 3rd land is pretty useful as this deck needs 3 lands, sometimes 4, to function.
You win with huge splinterfrights or Jarad or troll beats. The deck works pretty well without gy hate.
Darkblast is a house in this format, so i feel x4 is the right number.
Birds is actually very bad here. What will you accelerate into? You need a minimal amount of setup for the deck to start working. Also, demigod is slow and its cost is harsh on a green/black manabase.
Couple questions for you Ace1:
What is the main purpose of Necroplasm?
How aggressive are you when discarding creatures to Lotleth Troll? Does it depend on the match up?
Sales Thread!
The necroplasm singleton is here to destroy tokens. Since he has zero counters the turn he's brought into play, at the end step he destroys all creatures costing zero (tokens). He's not mandatory but in my meta full of lingering souls/spectral procession he can be quite helpful. The fact that he's an additional dredger also help his cause. He has to be used with care though, because he will eventually kill all 2 drops/3 drops.
Discarding stuff to loltroll can be tricky, it mostly depends on the board state and the matchup. I will usually be conservative with him discarding only creatures that are useful when in the graveyard, to avoid blowouts, especially if my opponent plays lots of removal that breaks through regenerate (path to exile, terminate). If fauna shaman/undertaker are active, i will be more aggressive as they allow me to recover discarded creatures as long as i have a dredger in the graveyard.
Currently Taking altered art Comissions. www.nf96alters.webs.com
Quick and Cheap Alters (looking to fill up some slots so some special pricing currently)
Ebay Stuff
I don't see the interaction between life from the loam and lotleth troll since troll can only discard creature cards... BUT if you play a couple of dryad arbors, that's a different story
There isn't an interaction of LFtL and Troll, just that Dredge tends to send a lot of cards into the 'yard and Loam could be abused then. Loam would be a great addition to this deck. 2 would be perfect.
Have you though of using Anathemancer? You wouldn't need to go into the red with him since most Modern decks are heavy in the non-basic dept. Squee could be used for counters as well. I would drop Slitherhead for these cards. Darkblast is usually great at 1 since it continued to recur.
You should know that Golgari Grave Troll is banned in Modern.