This is one of my favorite decks to play. There's just something about making it seem like I'm doing absolutely nothing for about five or so turns, and before the opponent knows it, I've just taken complete control of the game. Here it is:
The deck is based off the old Rabid Wombat deck in Legacy. Don't be fooled by the deck's appearance. On first glance, there's very little card draw and it runs a lot 1-ofs and 2-ofs. In reality, the deck runs 21 cards that cycle or cantrip, letting you dig through your deck quickly. And all of the cards that need to be 4-of are run as 4-of.
Since it's casual, I included a pseudo-sideboard into the main, which explains the one Leyline of Sanctity, the Phyrexian Furnaces, and Aura of Silence. Most of my friends don't use sideboards so my actual sideboard doesn't really get used. Imperial Mask is tech for multiplayer games.
They also never play non-basic hate, which is why I can run jank like Daru encampment. Ancient Den is because I can tutor for it or fetch it from the grave.
I don't run Humility main because I don't actually have the card, so it sits proxied in the side. Same with Enlightened Tutors, plus without Humility it's not really worth running the E Tutors main.
If/when I get Land Tax I might convert the deck to Parfait, which just seems way better. I also may include a Mistveil Plains. Thoughts/suggestions welcome.
Now there is no doubt that you can wipe the field clean of possible problems, but the question is if you can deal the damage once you wipe the field clean?
Now, if your looking for no restrictions, even budgetwise, baneslayer angel is amazing in white decks. Also in the case that you get land tax, have path to exile instead of swords to plowshares, that way its more likely to trigger and not let your opponent gain life when your trying to protect yourself.
The major issue I see with your wincon is how high the manacost is to even make it somewhat viable for some of the cards without incredibly high mana accel, some sort of combo to give you infinite, as this would make secred mesa and decree of justice much more viable. As it currently is though, its only medicore.
You are correct, this deck is mindnumbingly slow. Like, wins on turn 15-20 are common, and wins before turn 10 are almost impossible.
If I went the Land Tax route, I'd pretty much remake the whole deck (Scroll Rack, Zuran Orb, possibly Balance, etc. The truth is, Land Tax doesn't fit this deck in its current form since, as you observed, it is very, very mana hungry. So I'm not really going to discuss the Land Tax route here.
Sacred Mesa, Decree of Justice and Eternal Dragon are all very mana intensive, but they each frequently win the game on their own for me. Decrees, I usually just cycle whenever I can after turn six; since I run four, I don't mind only getting a few tokens out of it. The rate Sacred Mesa puts out tokens allows it to hold off entire swarms of aggro all on its own. I've wanted to cut it, but it's just too good. I might consider running Extraplanar Lens to speed it up. That warrants testing, I'll have to try it out.
Right now I have 4 Renewed Faiths for lifegain. I could try replacing one with Pulse. The main thing I like about Renewed Faith is that it cycles, whereas Pulse can be a dead card if I'm not facing aggro. Plus, it doesn't work well with my other life gain in the deck. I could try one or two though because Renewed Faiths usually aren't enough to slow aggro by much.
I don't like Baneslayer Angel, not just for its price but because it doesn't do anything else. All my other win conditions can do multiple things. Eternal Dragon fixes my lands, acts as a pseudo-draw engine, beats with evasion, AND can recur. DoJ puts out tons of tokens, acts as surprise blockers, nets me another card, is immune to counters, AND can pump out 4/4 angels if needed. Sacred Mesa can act as offense or defense. Elspeth pumps out unkillable 4/4 flyers, chump blocks if needed, and if ever needed, her ultimate seals the game. I guess it's possible to replace the Sacred Mesa with Baneslayer but I don't think she's worth the price tag on her, honestly
Hmmm, looks interesting. At first glance I thought it was unworkable but your explanation makes a lot of sense. I am going to playtest it a bit on OCTGN against some other decks tomorrow and I'll get back to you on how it goes.
Well, I think a good way for mono white control to work is to utilize some of white's creatures.
Iona, Shield of Emeria is a good place to start (at least on the high CC side). Sure she comes out late game, but once she does, you have locked the opponent out if they are playing mono colored, or cut out half of the possible spells if playing two or more.
Wall of Omens is a good early drop for defence, as well as card draw. You can ward off some early attacks with the wall as well as getting yourself an extra card out of the deal.
To help out in getting an earlier Iona, Shield of Emeria you can use Everlasting Chalice. That would help to ramp up to an earlier Iona, give your deck the speed that it needs. Another card that comes into mind is Kor Cartographer to help in aiding in obtaining more land for an earlier Iona.
Or you could go a different route with the creature destruction and use Martial Coup. A well-kicked Everlasting Chalice help out a ton with this, allowing you to drop at least 5 1/1's and in return destroying every other creature.
EDIT: Another good card would be Aether Vial. This would allow you to play either your Kor Skyfishers or Flickerwisps (whichever you have it set to) at will.
Alright, here is my feedback bases on some online play testing:
I'm not impressed with Leyline, Seal, and Aura. They are all too narrow and often wind up mostly dead in my hand. This deck also has a great deal of trouble with opposing Planeswalkers. I therefore recommend replacing those enchantments with 3 Oblivion Rings.
I also didn't really find much use for Argivian Find beyond fishing back a Furnace/RoP and cycling it again. In my opinion, this deck doesn't run enough artifacts and enchantments to justify this card. Maybe this is where room for 1-2 Pulse of the Fields can come from.
Wrath was extremely good since I usually had no creatures of my own on the board, and I suggest cutting 2 Wing Shards to make space for a full playset of Wraths.
Dustbowl + Flagstones was awesome. I was left wishing for more Flagstones in the deck to fling away in this manner. Maybe add another copy of both bowl and stones? Kabira Crossroads can be removed to make space.
My last comment is more general; I felt that the deck was lacking in sources of midgame card advantage. Decree and Dragon were very powerful, but didn't really start kicking in until turn 8 or so. Wrath probably gives you enough of an edge against fast aggro, but I think this deck struggles against any deck that packs its own card advantage engines (especially those that come online by turn 4-5).
Mallend: Creatures = bad for this deck. It doesn't run them well. Holy Day et al are card disadvantage. Not worth it. Martial Coup is interesting, but not necessary. Wraths are better to clear the board and Decrees are better for tokens.
Alright, here is my feedback bases on some online play testing:
I'm not impressed with Leyline, Seal, and Aura. They are all too narrow and often wind up mostly dead in my hand. This deck also has a great deal of trouble with opposing Planeswalkers. I therefore recommend replacing those enchantments with 3 Oblivion Rings.
I also didn't really find much use for Argivian Find beyond fishing back a Furnace/RoP and cycling it again. In my opinion, this deck doesn't run enough artifacts and enchantments to justify this card. Maybe this is where room for 1-2 Pulse of the Fields can come from.
Hm, good call. I agree that those three tend to be the most dead at times, but Seal and Aura were necessary if I was facing heavy artifact or enchantment decks. I originally ran more, I cut most of them and instead decided to rely on 1 Seal 1 Aura + 3 Finds. The reason it can't deal with Planeswalkers is because I made the deck before Planeswalkers existed and I guess I never got around to adjusting. O-Ring is a good catch-all, but I still like recurrable Seals. Maybe I'll try cutting Aura, Sanctity and 1 Find for 3 O-Rings?
Wrath was extremely good since I usually had no creatures of my own on the board, and I suggest cutting 2 Wing Shards to make space for a full playset of Wraths.
Trust me, if I had more Wraths, I would run more wraths You're definitely right though it certainly could use more.
Dustbowl + Flagstones was awesome. I was left wishing for more Flagstones in the deck to fling away in this manner. Maybe add another copy of both bowl and stones? Kabira Crossroads can be removed to make space.
Good call, I'll try it out.
My last comment is more general; I felt that the deck was lacking in sources of midgame card advantage. Decree and Dragon were very powerful, but didn't really start kicking in until turn 8 or so. Wrath probably gives you enough of an edge against fast aggro, but I think this deck struggles against any deck that packs its own card advantage engines (especially those that come online by turn 4-5).
Yeah, you're right here. Occasionally this would hurt but there's actually ways around it. I generally have a favorable matchup against blue anyway because Abeyance forces through counters and Decrees are uncounterable. If they run Keg then you need to take care of that first before cycling decrees. Against black, try to get as many enchantments resolved because they'll have almost no way to deal with them.
There's really not much else I can do for a white draw engine though. I could convert the mana base for the Scrying Sheets draw engine but it would require getting a ton of cards I don't have. Right now I'm really leaning toward just retiring the deck and converting the cards to Parfait, it's just so much more powerful than this deck. That will be sad though, this is my pet deck that I've kept around for about five years now. Winning with underpowered cards like Phyrexian Furnace is just so fun.
- Too many 1-ofs, cut down on those and make the deck more consistent by making 3 and 4-ofs.
- sideboard the rune of protection - is it really necessary to color-hate red?
Planning on replacing Leyline/Aura/Find with O-Rings. Outside of that, only one-ofs are win conditions, lands, and SB with E-tutors.
RoP: Red gives me the ability to shut down fast red decks that can finish with burn as finishers. That can be hard for any deck to deal with, and the life gain isn't always enough to keep up. Resolved RoP: Red usually means game against red decks. I can't see a better a better choice. Plus, it cycles if it's not needed.
I would recommend against taking Aura of Silence as after Scars came out every idiot and his brother are playing heavy artifacrt decks. Aura of Silence can be painfully powerful.
Also what about Kjeldoran Outpost as a way to make chump blockers against whatever your opponent is doing.
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311 "Who's Got the Herb"
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I would recommend against taking Aura of Silence as after Scars came out every idiot and his brother are playing heavy artifacrt decks. Aura of Silence can be painfully powerful.
Also what about Kjeldoran Outpost as a way to make chump blockers against whatever your opponent is doing.
True about Aura of Silence, plus its power in multiplayer games (Note the errata to affect all opponents). As it stands though, I'm probably going to optimize it for a general meta and not a Scars meta.
Outpost might work if I was running 3-4 Flagstones. Without it, Outpost is bad because I need all the land I can get. I don't think it's worth it, because I'd rather have cards good on their own and Sacred Mesa, Elspeth and Decrees already provide plenty of tokens for me. Good suggestion though, I like the idea.
PS. I haven't updated the decklist, I know. It'll probably be a while before I do, I'm working on other stuff atm. I'm still listening to any suggestions though.
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Wing Shards
2 Wrath of God
4 Renewed Faith
3 Argivian Find
3 Abeyance
Enchantments/Artifacts
2 Rune of Protection: Red
2 Phyrexian Furnace
1 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Aura of Silence
1 Story Circle
4 Decree of Justice
2 Eternal Dragon
1 Genju of the Fields
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
1 Secred Mesa
Lands
16 Plains
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Secluded Steppe
1 Ancient Den
1 Kor Haven
1 Dust Bowl
1 Kabira Crossroads
1 Daru Encampment
1 Humility
3 Enlightened Tutor
3 Seal of Cleansing
1 Aura of Silence
1 Argivian Find
2 Phyrexian Furnace
1 Rule of Law
1 Sacred Ground
1 Abeyance
1 Imperial Mask
The deck is based off the old Rabid Wombat deck in Legacy. Don't be fooled by the deck's appearance. On first glance, there's very little card draw and it runs a lot 1-ofs and 2-ofs. In reality, the deck runs 21 cards that cycle or cantrip, letting you dig through your deck quickly. And all of the cards that need to be 4-of are run as 4-of.
Since it's casual, I included a pseudo-sideboard into the main, which explains the one Leyline of Sanctity, the Phyrexian Furnaces, and Aura of Silence. Most of my friends don't use sideboards so my actual sideboard doesn't really get used. Imperial Mask is tech for multiplayer games.
They also never play non-basic hate, which is why I can run jank like Daru encampment. Ancient Den is because I can tutor for it or fetch it from the grave.
I don't run Humility main because I don't actually have the card, so it sits proxied in the side. Same with Enlightened Tutors, plus without Humility it's not really worth running the E Tutors main.
If/when I get Land Tax I might convert the deck to Parfait, which just seems way better. I also may include a Mistveil Plains. Thoughts/suggestions welcome.
Commander/EDH:
WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator WU
GW Saffi Eriksdotter GW
BW Selenia, Dark Angel BW
W Heliod, God of Sun W
Retired:
Jenara, Asura of War Thada Adel, Acquisitor Jaya Ballard, Task Mage Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero Lyzolda, the Blood Witch Akroma, Angel of Wrath Nath of the Gilt-Leaf Tajic, Blade of the Legion Selvala, Explorer Returned Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Tiny Leaders:
W Mangara of Corondor W
Now, if your looking for no restrictions, even budgetwise, baneslayer angel is amazing in white decks. Also in the case that you get land tax, have path to exile instead of swords to plowshares, that way its more likely to trigger and not let your opponent gain life when your trying to protect yourself.
The major issue I see with your wincon is how high the manacost is to even make it somewhat viable for some of the cards without incredibly high mana accel, some sort of combo to give you infinite, as this would make secred mesa and decree of justice much more viable. As it currently is though, its only medicore.
If your going to stick with swords to plowshares, might I recommend a card called Pulse of the fields for life gain?
There would have been a message here about Jace, but Jace feigned interest and counterspelled any other reference of him in my signature...
Special Thanks to Spiderboy4 at //forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=91142">High~Light Studios for making an awesome avatar in a timely manner!
If I went the Land Tax route, I'd pretty much remake the whole deck (Scroll Rack, Zuran Orb, possibly Balance, etc. The truth is, Land Tax doesn't fit this deck in its current form since, as you observed, it is very, very mana hungry. So I'm not really going to discuss the Land Tax route here.
Sacred Mesa, Decree of Justice and Eternal Dragon are all very mana intensive, but they each frequently win the game on their own for me. Decrees, I usually just cycle whenever I can after turn six; since I run four, I don't mind only getting a few tokens out of it. The rate Sacred Mesa puts out tokens allows it to hold off entire swarms of aggro all on its own. I've wanted to cut it, but it's just too good. I might consider running Extraplanar Lens to speed it up. That warrants testing, I'll have to try it out.
Right now I have 4 Renewed Faiths for lifegain. I could try replacing one with Pulse. The main thing I like about Renewed Faith is that it cycles, whereas Pulse can be a dead card if I'm not facing aggro. Plus, it doesn't work well with my other life gain in the deck. I could try one or two though because Renewed Faiths usually aren't enough to slow aggro by much.
I don't like Baneslayer Angel, not just for its price but because it doesn't do anything else. All my other win conditions can do multiple things. Eternal Dragon fixes my lands, acts as a pseudo-draw engine, beats with evasion, AND can recur. DoJ puts out tons of tokens, acts as surprise blockers, nets me another card, is immune to counters, AND can pump out 4/4 angels if needed. Sacred Mesa can act as offense or defense. Elspeth pumps out unkillable 4/4 flyers, chump blocks if needed, and if ever needed, her ultimate seals the game. I guess it's possible to replace the Sacred Mesa with Baneslayer but I don't think she's worth the price tag on her, honestly
Commander/EDH:
WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator WU
GW Saffi Eriksdotter GW
BW Selenia, Dark Angel BW
W Heliod, God of Sun W
Retired:
Jenara, Asura of War Thada Adel, Acquisitor Jaya Ballard, Task Mage Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero Lyzolda, the Blood Witch Akroma, Angel of Wrath Nath of the Gilt-Leaf Tajic, Blade of the Legion Selvala, Explorer Returned Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Tiny Leaders:
W Mangara of Corondor W
Iona, Shield of Emeria is a good place to start (at least on the high CC side). Sure she comes out late game, but once she does, you have locked the opponent out if they are playing mono colored, or cut out half of the possible spells if playing two or more.
Wall of Omens is a good early drop for defence, as well as card draw. You can ward off some early attacks with the wall as well as getting yourself an extra card out of the deal.
Kor Skyfisher is an awesome card. You can pair it up with Lone Missionary, Flickerwisp, Oblivion Ring/Journey to Nowhere, and terrifying to use with Iona, Shield of Emeria if your opponent is using multiple colors (as is Flickerwisp with her as well).
To help out in getting an earlier Iona, Shield of Emeria you can use Everlasting Chalice. That would help to ramp up to an earlier Iona, give your deck the speed that it needs. Another card that comes into mind is Kor Cartographer to help in aiding in obtaining more land for an earlier Iona.
White has a lot of creature control as well. You have Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile, and Condemn as all possible choices. Then of course there is always the Day of Judgment/Wrath of God. And to cripple your opponents in the turns following, Emeria, the Sky Ruin.
Or you could go a different route with the creature destruction and use Martial Coup. A well-kicked Everlasting Chalice help out a ton with this, allowing you to drop at least 5 1/1's and in return destroying every other creature.
Then of course you have Holy Day, Angelsong, and Pollen Lullaby which can all help you out early on while you build up.
Just some food for thought.
EDIT: Another good card would be Aether Vial. This would allow you to play either your Kor Skyfishers or Flickerwisps (whichever you have it set to) at will.
I'm not impressed with Leyline, Seal, and Aura. They are all too narrow and often wind up mostly dead in my hand. This deck also has a great deal of trouble with opposing Planeswalkers. I therefore recommend replacing those enchantments with 3 Oblivion Rings.
I also didn't really find much use for Argivian Find beyond fishing back a Furnace/RoP and cycling it again. In my opinion, this deck doesn't run enough artifacts and enchantments to justify this card. Maybe this is where room for 1-2 Pulse of the Fields can come from.
Wrath was extremely good since I usually had no creatures of my own on the board, and I suggest cutting 2 Wing Shards to make space for a full playset of Wraths.
Dustbowl + Flagstones was awesome. I was left wishing for more Flagstones in the deck to fling away in this manner. Maybe add another copy of both bowl and stones? Kabira Crossroads can be removed to make space.
My last comment is more general; I felt that the deck was lacking in sources of midgame card advantage. Decree and Dragon were very powerful, but didn't really start kicking in until turn 8 or so. Wrath probably gives you enough of an edge against fast aggro, but I think this deck struggles against any deck that packs its own card advantage engines (especially those that come online by turn 4-5).
Hm, good call. I agree that those three tend to be the most dead at times, but Seal and Aura were necessary if I was facing heavy artifact or enchantment decks. I originally ran more, I cut most of them and instead decided to rely on 1 Seal 1 Aura + 3 Finds. The reason it can't deal with Planeswalkers is because I made the deck before Planeswalkers existed and I guess I never got around to adjusting. O-Ring is a good catch-all, but I still like recurrable Seals. Maybe I'll try cutting Aura, Sanctity and 1 Find for 3 O-Rings?
Trust me, if I had more Wraths, I would run more wraths You're definitely right though it certainly could use more.
Good call, I'll try it out.
Yeah, you're right here. Occasionally this would hurt but there's actually ways around it. I generally have a favorable matchup against blue anyway because Abeyance forces through counters and Decrees are uncounterable. If they run Keg then you need to take care of that first before cycling decrees. Against black, try to get as many enchantments resolved because they'll have almost no way to deal with them.
There's really not much else I can do for a white draw engine though. I could convert the mana base for the Scrying Sheets draw engine but it would require getting a ton of cards I don't have. Right now I'm really leaning toward just retiring the deck and converting the cards to Parfait, it's just so much more powerful than this deck. That will be sad though, this is my pet deck that I've kept around for about five years now. Winning with underpowered cards like Phyrexian Furnace is just so fun.
Commander/EDH:
WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator WU
GW Saffi Eriksdotter GW
BW Selenia, Dark Angel BW
W Heliod, God of Sun W
Retired:
Jenara, Asura of War Thada Adel, Acquisitor Jaya Ballard, Task Mage Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero Lyzolda, the Blood Witch Akroma, Angel of Wrath Nath of the Gilt-Leaf Tajic, Blade of the Legion Selvala, Explorer Returned Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Tiny Leaders:
W Mangara of Corondor W
- Too many 1-ofs, cut down on those and make the deck more consistent by making 3 and 4-ofs.
- sideboard the rune of protection - is it really necessary to color-hate red?
:cool2:Thanks to Heroes of the Planes Studios for avatar and signature.
“The enemy has been destroyed, sir. So have the forest, the city, your palace, your dog . . ."
RoP: Red gives me the ability to shut down fast red decks that can finish with burn as finishers. That can be hard for any deck to deal with, and the life gain isn't always enough to keep up. Resolved RoP: Red usually means game against red decks. I can't see a better a better choice. Plus, it cycles if it's not needed.
Commander/EDH:
WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator WU
GW Saffi Eriksdotter GW
BW Selenia, Dark Angel BW
W Heliod, God of Sun W
Retired:
Jenara, Asura of War Thada Adel, Acquisitor Jaya Ballard, Task Mage Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero Lyzolda, the Blood Witch Akroma, Angel of Wrath Nath of the Gilt-Leaf Tajic, Blade of the Legion Selvala, Explorer Returned Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Tiny Leaders:
W Mangara of Corondor W
Also what about Kjeldoran Outpost as a way to make chump blockers against whatever your opponent is doing.
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"STAY CLEAR OF WHITE POWDER"
311 "Who's Got the Herb"
--------------------------------------
Outpost might work if I was running 3-4 Flagstones. Without it, Outpost is bad because I need all the land I can get. I don't think it's worth it, because I'd rather have cards good on their own and Sacred Mesa, Elspeth and Decrees already provide plenty of tokens for me. Good suggestion though, I like the idea.
PS. I haven't updated the decklist, I know. It'll probably be a while before I do, I'm working on other stuff atm. I'm still listening to any suggestions though.
Commander/EDH:
WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator WU
GW Saffi Eriksdotter GW
BW Selenia, Dark Angel BW
W Heliod, God of Sun W
Retired:
Jenara, Asura of War Thada Adel, Acquisitor Jaya Ballard, Task Mage Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero Lyzolda, the Blood Witch Akroma, Angel of Wrath Nath of the Gilt-Leaf Tajic, Blade of the Legion Selvala, Explorer Returned Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Tiny Leaders:
W Mangara of Corondor W