I'm being anal here, yes, but if you want just shroud, then I'd clearly go with Kalonian Behemoth over Plated Slagwurm. The latter, however, is often considered much superior because he has opponent shroud, which is very nasty in multi.
I think that would be my debate right now too. In my playgroup there's enough white removal to make me wary of the Great Sable Stag, but it would wreak havok with at least my friend's fairy deck. Should I drop the baloths and run 4 GSS and 4 Trolls?
At first, I said, "INCLUDE Nature's Lore!" but I see and like the logic that you have in terms of the land ramp. The only part of that I'm skeptical is that you're only running 3 Burgeoning, which seems fairly key to really get the deck going early on. I understand that it's not the best draw if you already have one in play and it isn't necessary the best play late game, but I wonder if 4 wouldn't be better. Tough call...
Two of the most important things I can think of and tell you from experience in a mono-g, ramp, multiplayer deck are these:
Card Draw: Increase Harmonize to 4, without question. These ramp decks often empty their hands quickly and perhaps the single most welcome card I can think of in, say, turn 3-5 or so is something like Harmonize. This way, you can really keep the pressure on your opponents. (Note that I'm sick of recommending Mind's Eye, but I believe this to be the single best card draw card in the game for multiplayer, as long as your opponents don't blow it up as soon as it hits the board, of course...)
Lifegain: Don't laugh!! It's very hard for me to make a mono-G deck and NOT include something that gives me life. Decks like these are generally going to do X points of damage before they run out of steam and give up 20 points themselves and lifegain simply extends the potency of decks like this. My #1 choice here would be Loxodon Warhammer and I'd run 4 of these. Not only do you get lifelink, but you also gain trample, which is key, for some of Gs best creatures don't have it.
Shroud or opponent shroud is also one of the key attributes I LOVE to abuse in multiplayer and often forms my best performing mono-G decks. I can't tell you how many times this drives my friends NUTS. Hell, last time we played, I had a Uril, the Miststalker enchanted up the arse (i.e. he was something like 18/14, trampling, first striking, lifelinking, vigilance, etc. BEAST) and two of my 4 opponents independently said, "You'd not be doing this if I could target him..." LOL--they were all bitter. Was pretty damn funny if you want to know the truth. (Yeah, he's not a mono-G creature, but that's not the point here).
Re-install 4 Leatherback Baloth. Yes, he doesn't have shroud, but a 4/5 for 3 G mana is spooky good. If often forces your opponents to leave you alone early on because he's so powerful, which is absolutely KEY in multiplayer. If they spend one of their creature kill cards on him, that's fine...he's one of your "low" CMC creatures anyways. And if you get the feeling from the flow of the game that you can make Loxodon Warhammer stick on him, watch out, you'll demoralize them with this guy alone---I've done it before, trust me, it's possible (and this in a meta that's often heavy in artifact/enchantment/creature hate).
Drop Lurking Predators. While this can be good in multiplayer, you aren't abusing it here and these slots can be better spent on other cards.
I'd run 2 or 3 Tornado Elementals, which not only is a great, great creature, but also will come close, if not totally, sweep the board of all flyers. Cloudthresher isn't too bad, but Tornado Elemental has worked much better for me in my actual games--it just sweeps the board, which is excellent CA for you. Now, this guy doesn't have shroud, but you're mainly including him for his ability to sweep the board of flyers AS WELL AS being a tough-as-nails creature. If he gets bombed quickly by an anti-creature spell, that's okay, you're probably way ahead in terms of CA. I prefer to play him only when the board has a few, if not many, flyers. This way, you're probably going to be okay in terms of a CA perspective.
Pelakka Wurm is another creature that's excellent in multi, despite it's lack of shroud. He gives you benefits regardless of whether or not he dies before attacking/spanking with him.
Why not include 3-4 Desert Twister to give you targeted removal? If you really believe your ramp spells will work for you quickly, I think this is a no-brainer.
Also, Grappling Hook can be a TERRIFIC targeted creature removal card when used in conjunction with your opponent shroud creatures like Troll Ascetic (he regens in case they get past the double strike) and Plated Slagwurm (seldom are you going to force a creature with toughness 9 or greater).
Oversoul of Dusk is often great as well, for protection from 3 colors is excellent for a 5 cmc, 5/5 creature. Deus of Calamity is a GREAT creature, but the lack of shroud make me go, "Ehhh..."
Card Draw: Increase Harmonize to 4, without question. These ramp decks often empty their hands quickly and perhaps the single most welcome card I can think of in, say, turn 3-5 or so is something like Harmonize. This way, you can really keep the pressure on your opponents. (Note that I'm sick of recommending Mind's Eye, but I believe this to be the single best card draw card in the game for multiplayer, as long as your opponents don't blow it up as soon as it hits the board, of course...)
Curious to know how you'd feel about Soul's Majesty in a deck like this?
...Oracle of Mul-Daya would allow me to play the top card of my library on my opponent's turn to trigger a landfall effect on my side if I needed to...
Sorry Captain...it doesn't work like that. Oracle of Mul-Daya's ability only allows you to play that land "whenever you can play a land"...
Personally, I like Secret Force variants for green. Nothing is funner in casual single or multiplayer when you Natural Order + a lawnmower elf + Pattern of Rebirth. Pull that in to a PrimalCrux combo Green has a plethora of BS ways to bring monsters way to early with out waiting on ramping.
Curious to know how you'd feel about Soul's Majesty in a deck like this?
Definitely can be a very solid addition in my humble opinion.
My point wasn't to puff up Harmonize, but more to the idea that card draw of almost any nature can really help keep the pressure on. Getting a bunch of land/mana into play quickly is cool and all, but if you don't have the cards to cast once you do that, it really doesn't count for much. Card draw in these decks is really fun, and important in my mind.
I'll definitely pick up a bunch more of this stuff and see how it works.
@GetnBlazed - if I have Burgeoning out, wouldn't I be able to play it off the top of my library on my opponent's turn if they play land? Prob doesn't matter cause I won't run it.
@LunaticFringe - as always, thanks for the thorough response. Tons of stuff worth considering. I would absolutely run four burgeoning but they're very tough to find and I was only able to get my hands on three for now.
I had considered Mind's Eye, I run them in a lot of decks too, just thought I'd try something else here. I'll up Harmonize to four.
Overall, I'd say that I was looking for trample more than I was looking for shroud, but it's true that in multiplayer the importance of shroud can't be overstated. So:
Oversoul of Dusk>Deus of Calamity? I happened to buy two Oversouls for another deck so I can run them as well. Only debate for me would be shroud vs. trample here.
Tornado Elemental vs. Silklash Spider? I guess the Elemental is probably more valuable since as long as it isn't countered it'll probably wipe the board.
Okay I will start drafting a new decklist in a few.
I would definitely say that the Oversoul is better then the Deus in this case. Having protection is easier damage then having trample. Though, it can still be blocked by green and white creatures, it's not particularly easy to have something bigger then a 5/5 out.
Also, The slagwurm is far better then the behemoth. Troll Shroud is just that much better then shroud. Especially if you want to use a few pump spells.
Troll Ascetic is one of the best 3 mana green creatures printed. The regenerate and untargetable is a rediculous combo. And makes him great. Personally, I'm confused as to why that's the first I saw it in this thread. . .
And from what I can tell, Tornado Elemental is better. It'll wipe the field clean of flyers (-Iona) and will start beating face for 6 damage a turn that's psuedo unblockable.
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Modern Decks: GGGMGAGGG RRRRed AffinityRRR RGShamansGR BWB/W ControlWB
A really nice three-drop that helps bring out cards faster is Omnath, Locus of Mana. The best part about it is that it gets bigger as the game gets longer.
My point wasn't to puff up Harmonize, but more to the idea that card draw of almost any nature can really help keep the pressure on.
Oh, sure. I'm riding shotgun with you on the notion of draw, as a whole. I was more interested in your take on Soul's Majesty in particular. (So, thanks for that.) I've considered dropping Harmonize for it. It just seems a bit situational. If I've already got a fatty to stick, it could be viewed as win-more. If I don't, I can always use something Giant Growth-like to pump up a creature and make it worth the casting cost, but that requires that I have a creature worth pumping, the pumper, and Soul's Majesty all at the same time.
Like the one the Capt is building, any deck running Vigor will have creatures that are difficult to remove. IMO, that takes a little of the risk out of having your creature nuked before Majesty resolves. It makes me wonder if that swings the risk/reward equation in Majesty's favor.
You could try green/blue with feral hydra, scute mob, gilder bairn and then tons of bounce/counterspell to lock out your opponent until your monsters have grown so big it'll be a one hit death. I would recommend things like Rewind and aether burst.
I took out Garruk's Companion since it's pretty much a given that I won't need a turn 1 or 2 drop. I'll almost always be using those turns to ramp as much as possible into something better.
Oversoul of Dusk>Deus of Calamity? I happened to buy two Oversouls for another deck so I can run them as well. Only debate for me would be shroud vs. trample here.
In my humble opinion, yeah, I'd go Oversoul of Dusk. If your opponents are playing non-GW, he's quite simply a game winner. If you have protection from the color your facing, protection is clearly > trample, for they can't block it to begin with.
If they are playing GW, then yeah, perhaps Deus of Calamity might be the better choice, but G isn't exactly loaded with removal and W can remove either anyways, so I logic my way through it by saying, "What the heck? Might as well take a shot as them playing non-GW and call it a day."
Further, since you do have multiple opponents, the odds of you facing non-GW is increased. I've never played a multiplayer -deck running Oversoul of Dusk and been disappointed when I drew it.
Tornado Elemental vs. Silklash Spider? I guess the Elemental is probably more valuable since as long as it isn't countered it'll probably wipe the board.
I'm a total dork and love spiders (I feel like I'm one of the few :)), for they are terrific defenders against flying creatures. I guess they often don't get much love because their power usually stinks and, as such, they aren't very good in 1 on 1 play. Since the importance of defense generally increases in multiplayer, however, they start to become decent options.
That said, however, I still prefer Tornado Elemental between these 2. Why? Because he ~wipes the board when he comes into play. Trying to fire off Silklash Spider the same turn you summoned him will often require a lot of mana to pull off.
And since they both can be countered, I'm not sure that one would have a marked advantage facing that issue anyways.
Now, not all is great with Tornado Elemental, since he's more expensive cmc, but he's often worth it in these types of ramp-G decks. One of my buddies was hating life when he thought he was going to pound me with two Avatar of Discords, only to have me play Tornado Elemental and kill both of them instantly. The look on his face=priceless. (NOTE: It was about the same look I gave him when he Goblin Grenaded *2 me to death--yes, you read that right--the next ~game...I couldn't believe it...lol)
Lastly, Tornado Elemental, if he's not killed, is pseudo-unblockable and is VERY POWERFUL. Unless mana was the limiting factor, which I don't think it is, I don't think there's any question I'd go Tornado in this situation.
I would definitely say that the Oversoul is better then the Deus in this case. Having protection is easier damage then having trample. Though, it can still be blocked by green and white creatures, it's not particularly easy to have something bigger then a 5/5 out.
Oh, sure. I'm riding shotgun with you on the notion of draw, as a whole. I was more interested in your take on Soul's Majesty in particular. (So, thanks for that.) I've considered dropping Harmonize for it. It just seems a bit situational. If I've already got a fatty to stick, it could be viewed as win-more. If I don't, I can always use something Giant Growth-like to pump up a creature and make it worth the casting cost, but that requires that I have a creature worth pumping, the pumper, and Soul's Majesty all at the same time.
Like the one the Capt is building, any deck running Vigor will have creatures that are difficult to remove. IMO, that takes a little of the risk out of having your creature nuked before Majesty resolves. It makes me wonder if that swings the risk/reward equation in Majesty's favor.
Oh, I gotcha.
In my mind, it depends on the deck. I would say that in a mono-G deck, where the creatures all have decent power, or can be equipped fairly easily to have decent power, like this deck looks like it might have, then yeah, I'd probably go with Soul's Majesty over Harmonize. You only need 1 of those creatures out to make it pop pretty good, so yeah, I'd take the chance.
It looks like only Troll Ascetic would have low power out of all the creatures, but, even if he was the only creature you had in play, you still have a decent shot at having Loxodon Warhammer equipped on him, which gives him solid power. As such, I'd rationalize that the odds are fairly decent you get to draw more than 2 cards when you cast it.
Harmonize and Krosan Tusker seem to be staple draw cards, so I generally try not to deviate from those too much, but I'd submit that any card draw in these decks is vitally important.
At least, that's my take on it. A lot of people are much better than I am, so I'm sure they'd disagree and probably have good logic for it, but hopefully that helps.
I took out Garruk's Companion since it's pretty much a given that I won't need a turn 1 or 2 drop. I'll almost always be using those turns to ramp as much as possible into something better.
Personally, I like it a lot. The only part that would make me nervous is the lack of artifact/enchantment/creature destruction. Also note that if one of your opponents get a decent sized flyer into play, you have no defense against it. Then again, it also looks like you can put a lot of pressure on them really fast, so give it a shot. It isn't like they are going to mindlessly attack with a flyer (without vigilance) with some of those beefers staring them in the face.
In my mind, the key to this deck really functioning well is to quickly ramp into mana and then draw some cards behind that. If you do, you'll be in a pretty good position.
Thanks again for the reply. This has definitely been super helpful. I'm not a Timmy and I feel like this is a Timmy deck...though with all the debating I feel like it has turned it into a Johnny one!
Yeah there are two things I feel I'm missing out on besides the stuff at the bottom: Naturalize and also Leyline of Lifeforce or Gaea's Herald. Gonna need that in my meta. What do I cut though?
Thanks again for the reply. This has definitely been super helpful. I'm not a Timmy and I feel like this is a Timmy deck...though with all the debating I feel like it has turned it into a Johnny one!
Yeah there are two things I feel I'm missing out on besides the stuff at the bottom: Naturalize and also Leyline of Lifeforce or Gaea's Herald. Gonna need that in my meta. What do I cut though?
Desert Twister gives you targeted removal of anything. This is why I didn't recommend Naturalize. Now, that doesn't at all mean it's "better," just something to think about, for IF you can get a lot of mana into play quickly, then Desert Twisters flexibility can be nasty.
As far as facing counterspells, I have to plead less experience here, for my meta has moved away from that big time. Why? Well, probably because the winners in our games seldom focus on countering spells. It's seldom results in CA and while you are countering one opponent from doing something, the other opponent is looking to pound your brains in; there's no mercy in our meta :D. My meta seems to focus more on creatures, hence our love for G. Granted, we might totally suck, but...:D
I think the logic is that creatures are perhaps the best way to attack and defend yourself in multi (in most situations, of course, not all). Heck, I'd submit that you don't even need to do anything but have the THREAT/ABILITY to attack/defend that is game-changing. I believe creatures provide this better than anything else, most of the time.
It's hard to consistently come up with a deck that is going to counter several opponents from doing what they want. 1 on 1? Can be deadly. In multiplayer, especially 4+ players? It seems to me that it's significantly harder. You just won't have the mana, nor the cards in hand, to keep up.
As far as countering creature spells, my advice would be to take advantage of timing and/or look for play-errors. Try casting after they are tapped, for I doubt they can just sit there and not cast anything. Further, with card draw, like you have in this deck, counterspell strategy can be really risky.
I should make it clear that we play a lot of team games.
There are only about 4 - 8 people in my meta but we each have a silly amount of decks since none of us spend a ton of $$$ on expensive tournament level cards, plus if you own four of anything you can proxy it four times in as many decks as you want. We also run no banlist which can be extremely unfortunate.
Most of the time I am the control player (hence why I needed so much help putting this together and didn't know about cards like Troll Ascetic), but one of our friends only has a few decks, one of them being Fairies which is played quite often (4 Counterspell, 4 Countersquall and 4 Spellstutter Sprite). His newest deck is UG, tons of mana ramp and counterspells. So if he's not on my team I'll need something to allow me to actually play Magic.
Try casting after they are tapped, for I doubt they can just sit there and not cast anything
Ohhhh yes they can. Since we play mostly team games it's not uncommon for someone to break out a control deck and be that guy.
If you haven't already, try this multiplayer variant. At the start of the game, players don't know which team they're on. Players save their heavy hitter spells for later in the game. That grants some advantage to the deck that's ramping early.
I'm being anal here, yes, but if you want just shroud, then I'd clearly go with Kalonian Behemoth over Plated Slagwurm. The latter, however, is often considered much superior because he has opponent shroud, which is very nasty in multi.
Damn, you beat me to it.
At first, I said, "INCLUDE Nature's Lore!" but I see and like the logic that you have in terms of the land ramp. The only part of that I'm skeptical is that you're only running 3 Burgeoning, which seems fairly key to really get the deck going early on. I understand that it's not the best draw if you already have one in play and it isn't necessary the best play late game, but I wonder if 4 wouldn't be better. Tough call...
Two of the most important things I can think of and tell you from experience in a mono-g, ramp, multiplayer deck are these:
Card Draw: Increase Harmonize to 4, without question. These ramp decks often empty their hands quickly and perhaps the single most welcome card I can think of in, say, turn 3-5 or so is something like Harmonize. This way, you can really keep the pressure on your opponents. (Note that I'm sick of recommending Mind's Eye, but I believe this to be the single best card draw card in the game for multiplayer, as long as your opponents don't blow it up as soon as it hits the board, of course...)
Lifegain: Don't laugh!! It's very hard for me to make a mono-G deck and NOT include something that gives me life. Decks like these are generally going to do X points of damage before they run out of steam and give up 20 points themselves and lifegain simply extends the potency of decks like this. My #1 choice here would be Loxodon Warhammer and I'd run 4 of these. Not only do you get lifelink, but you also gain trample, which is key, for some of Gs best creatures don't have it.
Shroud or opponent shroud is also one of the key attributes I LOVE to abuse in multiplayer and often forms my best performing mono-G decks. I can't tell you how many times this drives my friends NUTS. Hell, last time we played, I had a Uril, the Miststalker enchanted up the arse (i.e. he was something like 18/14, trampling, first striking, lifelinking, vigilance, etc. BEAST) and two of my 4 opponents independently said, "You'd not be doing this if I could target him..." LOL--they were all bitter. Was pretty damn funny if you want to know the truth. (Yeah, he's not a mono-G creature, but that's not the point here).
As such, here's what I would recommend:
Add 4 Plated Slagwurm. Loaded with Loxodon Warhammer, the scariness of this creature is self-explanatory.
Re-install 4 Leatherback Baloth. Yes, he doesn't have shroud, but a 4/5 for 3 G mana is spooky good. If often forces your opponents to leave you alone early on because he's so powerful, which is absolutely KEY in multiplayer. If they spend one of their creature kill cards on him, that's fine...he's one of your "low" CMC creatures anyways. And if you get the feeling from the flow of the game that you can make Loxodon Warhammer stick on him, watch out, you'll demoralize them with this guy alone---I've done it before, trust me, it's possible (and this in a meta that's often heavy in artifact/enchantment/creature hate).
Drop Lurking Predators. While this can be good in multiplayer, you aren't abusing it here and these slots can be better spent on other cards.
I'd run 2 or 3 Tornado Elementals, which not only is a great, great creature, but also will come close, if not totally, sweep the board of all flyers. Cloudthresher isn't too bad, but Tornado Elemental has worked much better for me in my actual games--it just sweeps the board, which is excellent CA for you. Now, this guy doesn't have shroud, but you're mainly including him for his ability to sweep the board of flyers AS WELL AS being a tough-as-nails creature. If he gets bombed quickly by an anti-creature spell, that's okay, you're probably way ahead in terms of CA. I prefer to play him only when the board has a few, if not many, flyers. This way, you're probably going to be okay in terms of a CA perspective.
Pelakka Wurm is another creature that's excellent in multi, despite it's lack of shroud. He gives you benefits regardless of whether or not he dies before attacking/spanking with him.
Why not include 3-4 Desert Twister to give you targeted removal? If you really believe your ramp spells will work for you quickly, I think this is a no-brainer.
Also, Grappling Hook can be a TERRIFIC targeted creature removal card when used in conjunction with your opponent shroud creatures like Troll Ascetic (he regens in case they get past the double strike) and Plated Slagwurm (seldom are you going to force a creature with toughness 9 or greater).
Oversoul of Dusk is often great as well, for protection from 3 colors is excellent for a 5 cmc, 5/5 creature. Deus of Calamity is a GREAT creature, but the lack of shroud make me go, "Ehhh..."
Yavimaya Hollow is also GREAT in a mono-G deck using the creatures I describe above. One of my ideal plays is to have Plated Slagwurm, equipped with Loxodon Warhammer, and have Yavimaya Hollow as an untapped land--that's often TOUGH to deal with.
Just my $0.02.
Kokusho, The Evening Star, Exsanguinate and Glen Elendra Archmage have a restriction of 1 per deck.
Curious to know how you'd feel about Soul's Majesty in a deck like this?
BR Sleeper Ascension - Casual
Sorry Captain...it doesn't work like that. Oracle of Mul-Daya's ability only allows you to play that land "whenever you can play a land"...
Definitely can be a very solid addition in my humble opinion.
My point wasn't to puff up Harmonize, but more to the idea that card draw of almost any nature can really help keep the pressure on. Getting a bunch of land/mana into play quickly is cool and all, but if you don't have the cards to cast once you do that, it really doesn't count for much. Card draw in these decks is really fun, and important in my mind.
Kokusho, The Evening Star, Exsanguinate and Glen Elendra Archmage have a restriction of 1 per deck.
I'll definitely pick up a bunch more of this stuff and see how it works.
@GetnBlazed - if I have Burgeoning out, wouldn't I be able to play it off the top of my library on my opponent's turn if they play land? Prob doesn't matter cause I won't run it.
@LunaticFringe - as always, thanks for the thorough response. Tons of stuff worth considering. I would absolutely run four burgeoning but they're very tough to find and I was only able to get my hands on three for now.
I had considered Mind's Eye, I run them in a lot of decks too, just thought I'd try something else here. I'll up Harmonize to four.
Overall, I'd say that I was looking for trample more than I was looking for shroud, but it's true that in multiplayer the importance of shroud can't be overstated. So:
Oversoul of Dusk>Deus of Calamity? I happened to buy two Oversouls for another deck so I can run them as well. Only debate for me would be shroud vs. trample here.
Plated Slagwurm vs. Kalonian Behemoth, I can go with the Slagwurms here.
Leatherback Baloth vs. Great Sable Stag vs. Troll Ascetic? I think the Baloth makes more sense over the Stag, so I'd probably run Baloth and Troll.
Tornado Elemental vs. Silklash Spider? I guess the Elemental is probably more valuable since as long as it isn't countered it'll probably wipe the board.
Okay I will start drafting a new decklist in a few.
Trades
Supreme thanks to Fio at Damnation Studios for the awesome artwork.
UMember of Clan Mono BlueU
Also, The slagwurm is far better then the behemoth. Troll Shroud is just that much better then shroud. Especially if you want to use a few pump spells.
Troll Ascetic is one of the best 3 mana green creatures printed. The regenerate and untargetable is a rediculous combo. And makes him great. Personally, I'm confused as to why that's the first I saw it in this thread. . .
And from what I can tell, Tornado Elemental is better. It'll wipe the field clean of flyers (-Iona) and will start beating face for 6 damage a turn that's psuedo unblockable.
GGGMGAGGG
RRRRed AffinityRRR
RGShamansGR
BWB/W ControlWB
EDH:
Maelstrom Wanderer
Heartless Hidetsugu
Cromat
Nicol Bolas
Sapling of Colfenor
Mayael the Anima
Oh, sure. I'm riding shotgun with you on the notion of draw, as a whole. I was more interested in your take on Soul's Majesty in particular. (So, thanks for that.) I've considered dropping Harmonize for it. It just seems a bit situational. If I've already got a fatty to stick, it could be viewed as win-more. If I don't, I can always use something Giant Growth-like to pump up a creature and make it worth the casting cost, but that requires that I have a creature worth pumping, the pumper, and Soul's Majesty all at the same time.
Like the one the Capt is building, any deck running Vigor will have creatures that are difficult to remove. IMO, that takes a little of the risk out of having your creature nuked before Majesty resolves. It makes me wonder if that swings the risk/reward equation in Majesty's favor.
(When did G become so technical? :-/)
BR Sleeper Ascension - Casual
22 Forest
Creatures
4 Leatherback Baloth
4 Troll Ascetic
2 Oversoul of Dusk
3 Garruk's Packmaster
4 Plated Slagwurm
2 Vigor
3 Burgeoning
4 Lay of the Land
4 Cultivate
Draw
4 Harmonize
4 Loxodon Warhammer
I took out Garruk's Companion since it's pretty much a given that I won't need a turn 1 or 2 drop. I'll almost always be using those turns to ramp as much as possible into something better.
Things I'd like to add but couldn't figure out what to take out:
More ramp (maybe 4 Nature's Lore)
Grappling Hook: This seemed like a great idea
Desert Twister
Tornado Elemental
Trades
Supreme thanks to Fio at Damnation Studios for the awesome artwork.
UMember of Clan Mono BlueU
In my humble opinion, yeah, I'd go Oversoul of Dusk. If your opponents are playing non-GW, he's quite simply a game winner. If you have protection from the color your facing, protection is clearly > trample, for they can't block it to begin with.
If they are playing GW, then yeah, perhaps Deus of Calamity might be the better choice, but G isn't exactly loaded with removal and W can remove either anyways, so I logic my way through it by saying, "What the heck? Might as well take a shot as them playing non-GW and call it a day."
Further, since you do have multiple opponents, the odds of you facing non-GW is increased. I've never played a multiplayer -deck running Oversoul of Dusk and been disappointed when I drew it.
Agree. SELDOM would I ever pick Kalonian Behemoth over Slagwurm.
It's honestly a toss-up in my mind. All 3 are great and you're probably splitting hairs deciding between them.
I'm a total dork and love spiders (I feel like I'm one of the few :)), for they are terrific defenders against flying creatures. I guess they often don't get much love because their power usually stinks and, as such, they aren't very good in 1 on 1 play. Since the importance of defense generally increases in multiplayer, however, they start to become decent options.
That said, however, I still prefer Tornado Elemental between these 2. Why? Because he ~wipes the board when he comes into play. Trying to fire off Silklash Spider the same turn you summoned him will often require a lot of mana to pull off.
And since they both can be countered, I'm not sure that one would have a marked advantage facing that issue anyways.
Now, not all is great with Tornado Elemental, since he's more expensive cmc, but he's often worth it in these types of ramp-G decks. One of my buddies was hating life when he thought he was going to pound me with two Avatar of Discords, only to have me play Tornado Elemental and kill both of them instantly. The look on his face=priceless. (NOTE: It was about the same look I gave him when he Goblin Grenaded *2 me to death--yes, you read that right--the next ~game...I couldn't believe it...lol)
Lastly, Tornado Elemental, if he's not killed, is pseudo-unblockable and is VERY POWERFUL. Unless mana was the limiting factor, which I don't think it is, I don't think there's any question I'd go Tornado in this situation.
Well said, sir
Oh, I gotcha.
In my mind, it depends on the deck. I would say that in a mono-G deck, where the creatures all have decent power, or can be equipped fairly easily to have decent power, like this deck looks like it might have, then yeah, I'd probably go with Soul's Majesty over Harmonize. You only need 1 of those creatures out to make it pop pretty good, so yeah, I'd take the chance.
It looks like only Troll Ascetic would have low power out of all the creatures, but, even if he was the only creature you had in play, you still have a decent shot at having Loxodon Warhammer equipped on him, which gives him solid power. As such, I'd rationalize that the odds are fairly decent you get to draw more than 2 cards when you cast it.
Harmonize and Krosan Tusker seem to be staple draw cards, so I generally try not to deviate from those too much, but I'd submit that any card draw in these decks is vitally important.
At least, that's my take on it. A lot of people are much better than I am, so I'm sure they'd disagree and probably have good logic for it, but hopefully that helps.
LOL, very much agree.
Personally, I like it a lot. The only part that would make me nervous is the lack of artifact/enchantment/creature destruction. Also note that if one of your opponents get a decent sized flyer into play, you have no defense against it. Then again, it also looks like you can put a lot of pressure on them really fast, so give it a shot. It isn't like they are going to mindlessly attack with a flyer (without vigilance) with some of those beefers staring them in the face.
In my mind, the key to this deck really functioning well is to quickly ramp into mana and then draw some cards behind that. If you do, you'll be in a pretty good position.
EDIT: Is Yavimaya Hollow an option? If so, I'd consider +2 Yavimaya Hollow and +2 Tornado Elemental and -2 Vigor and -2 Forest.
Kokusho, The Evening Star, Exsanguinate and Glen Elendra Archmage have a restriction of 1 per deck.
Yeah there are two things I feel I'm missing out on besides the stuff at the bottom: Naturalize and also Leyline of Lifeforce or Gaea's Herald. Gonna need that in my meta. What do I cut though?
Trades
Supreme thanks to Fio at Damnation Studios for the awesome artwork.
UMember of Clan Mono BlueU
Desert Twister gives you targeted removal of anything. This is why I didn't recommend Naturalize. Now, that doesn't at all mean it's "better," just something to think about, for IF you can get a lot of mana into play quickly, then Desert Twisters flexibility can be nasty.
As far as facing counterspells, I have to plead less experience here, for my meta has moved away from that big time. Why? Well, probably because the winners in our games seldom focus on countering spells. It's seldom results in CA and while you are countering one opponent from doing something, the other opponent is looking to pound your brains in; there's no mercy in our meta :D. My meta seems to focus more on creatures, hence our love for G. Granted, we might totally suck, but...:D
I think the logic is that creatures are perhaps the best way to attack and defend yourself in multi (in most situations, of course, not all). Heck, I'd submit that you don't even need to do anything but have the THREAT/ABILITY to attack/defend that is game-changing. I believe creatures provide this better than anything else, most of the time.
It's hard to consistently come up with a deck that is going to counter several opponents from doing what they want. 1 on 1? Can be deadly. In multiplayer, especially 4+ players? It seems to me that it's significantly harder. You just won't have the mana, nor the cards in hand, to keep up.
As far as countering creature spells, my advice would be to take advantage of timing and/or look for play-errors. Try casting after they are tapped, for I doubt they can just sit there and not cast anything. Further, with card draw, like you have in this deck, counterspell strategy can be really risky.
Kokusho, The Evening Star, Exsanguinate and Glen Elendra Archmage have a restriction of 1 per deck.
There are only about 4 - 8 people in my meta but we each have a silly amount of decks since none of us spend a ton of $$$ on expensive tournament level cards, plus if you own four of anything you can proxy it four times in as many decks as you want. We also run no banlist which can be extremely unfortunate.
Most of the time I am the control player (hence why I needed so much help putting this together and didn't know about cards like Troll Ascetic), but one of our friends only has a few decks, one of them being Fairies which is played quite often (4 Counterspell, 4 Countersquall and 4 Spellstutter Sprite). His newest deck is UG, tons of mana ramp and counterspells. So if he's not on my team I'll need something to allow me to actually play Magic.
Ohhhh yes they can. Since we play mostly team games it's not uncommon for someone to break out a control deck and be that guy.
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Supreme thanks to Fio at Damnation Studios for the awesome artwork.
UMember of Clan Mono BlueU
BR Sleeper Ascension - Casual
Avid fan of buying overpriced precons and using 5/60 cards to make a "fun" deck.
UUU Sovereign of the Sea UUU
RB BR Blightning Discard RB
WG Budget G/W KoNA Aggro WG