I wasn't really a fan of any of the black slivers because I probably plan on adding Crystalline Sliver the soonest. The black sliver with deathtouch seems good, but also expensive.
Obviously which lands i use will change depending which slivers I keep, but I'm a bit confused as to where to go from here. Any suggestions would be great. Also suggestions for any other cheap cards I could add to really put it over the top would be great. Thanks guys. =)
Also, a thing to keep in mind when deckbuilding is to avoid redundancy. In your case, we really don't need double non-stacking abilities, like Haste, Flying, Provoke, Double Strike. Especially since you have Homing Sliver, which can search for any of these abilities in a pinch. So for the hasting, flying, provoking, double striking slivers, you should only run 1 or 2 of each.
As for the land base...since your deck is mostly creatures, you should use Ancient Ziggurat, a relatively cheap, uncommon land.
This might be a dumb question, but is there something I don't know about Kodama's Reach?
I think he just missed the part in your OP when you said you'd build the landbase after figuring out which slivers you wanted to run. So no, you aren't missing anything on Kodama's Reach.
Edit: And I completely agree with DLink's Homing Sliver advice. You could even run Homing Sliver in a deck which can't produce red if you just want the tutor ability.
In terms of the rare/more costly slivers. Here is about how I see them. Brood Sliver: Overkill, if he's working then you're already winning. Synapse Sliver: Ditto. Toxin Sliver: Super fun 1 or 2 of. Essense Sliver: Ditto. Magma Sliver: You can build around his craziness, as stated above. Sedge Sliver: Very good in a B/R or B/G/R build, not so much otherwise. Plague Sliver: Great if you're not running a sliver deck. Psionic Sliver: Great fun with tribal pump. Fungus Sliver: Useful with Psionic. Pulmonic Sliver: Me no likey. Winged Sliver grants the relevant ability at 1U. Crystalline Sliver: You already seem to know it's the nuts. It really is.
Sideboard in Virulent Sliver against life gain decks, Ward Sliver against any mono color deck, Root Sliver against a counter deck, Might Sliver when I need to win quickly, and Amoeboid Changeling against a tribal deck (to possibly take advantage of any bonuses my opponent might be giving to his creatures [Give them to my slivers/take them away from his creatures]). Also the Amoeboid Changeling/Sliver Overlord combo is great for stealing an opponents creatures. (I do plan on dumping more money into this in the future).
You have 11 lands that come into play tapped. I think between your Vivids, Terramorphics, Spheres, and Gemhides that you don't have need of the Coliseums. I would remove those 3 lands for 1 each of Mountain, Forest, and Plains.
I realize my sideboard has too many cards, but seeing as how I play casual I doubt anyone will care. I could actually just remove the Amoeboid Changeling if anyone made a fuss.
Thanks for the suggestion. Since I'm pulling the Talon Sliver, and going with Two-headed/Sidewinder combo, would it be better to pull the Winged Sliver and leave the Harmonic Sliver in? My reasoning would be that since I've already got flanking running, and the bonus from Spined Sliver only helps that, then there isn't going to be much that can block me and survive, so I don't know if the evasion from the Winged Sliver is really necessary. I'd much rather have the destroy artifact/enchant granted from the Harmonic Sliver. Just a thought....I guess I could always sideboard in one or the other as necessity dictates.
The land suggestion was great. I wasn't too keen on having to take damage if I end up getting mana screwed when there are safer alternatives.
i think removing 2 of the following 3: spined, fury, and two headed
for 4 x plated sliver is way more useful especially since its a one drop. I'd bump up winged sliver to 3 since it's your only/better source of evasion.
My thought is that having your whole team suddenly fly can knock people from double digits to dead in about 0 seconds. However, Harmonic vs Winged is a call that is very dependent on the types of decks your friends play. If you are constantly dealing with troublesome or game-locking enchantments, then having Harmonic maindeck is more important than mass evasion.
That said I'd still try to fit in at least 1 Winged you could slivercycle for.
What do you think of kwong's suggestion of dropping some cards to include plated sliver? I'm reluctant to remove Spined Sliver or Two-headed since they have such great synergy, and Fury sliver was a card I just really wanted to include because i figured by the time I get it out it would definitely spell defeat for my opponent. Is plated sliver really that good as a one drop?
the more 1 or 2 drops that you have that actually do work, the faster you'll win. I was playing my friend with an incomplete countersliver deck and I won most of the time before the 6th turn.
My countersliver deck has a bad manabase, and i have a few grand coliseums in there. If you can't get painlands or dual lands, I'd recommend using city of brass instead. You should be dealing way more damage than your opponent so the one damage isnt that big of a deal since it doesn't come into play tapped. if you fix the mana curves, you can pop in some aether vials, that way your slivers won't be counterable as well.
if you aren't winning by the time you have fury sliver out, I don't think it'll save the game. with the rule changes from m10, the synergy of spined and two headed loses a lot of its oomph since you have to deal damage in order now of blockers assigned. Plated slivers have definitely saved me many a times from various threats lol.
I completely avoided flying due to things like Hurricaneand other mass kill flying. I didn't lose reach because I used Spinneret Sliver. Spinns are also cheap was far as a 2/2 sliver goes.
Also. Put Wild Pair in. Its great when one sliver is 2, for free, or 3, or 4, or 5 (when you have 4 Wild Pairs out.)
I don't think any decks i'll be playing will have hurricane or something similar, and if they sideboard it in I can just sideboard out my winged slivers.
Is Wild Pair really that good? at six mana even with a gemhide on turn 2 the fastest I could get it out would be turn.....4 i think? Is it still worth it at that point?
To smooth out your curve I would increase your number of 1-drops, Sidewinder, Virulent and Plated are the three I use in my own Sliver deck. A pretty awesome finisher instead of Titanic Ultimatum is Sliver Legion, he's a Coat of Arms on a stick and a Sliver to boot!
I don't think any decks i'll be playing will have hurricane or something similar, and if they sideboard it in I can just sideboard out my winged slivers.
Is Wild Pair really that good? at six mana even with a gemhide on turn 2 the fastest I could get it out would be turn.....4 i think? Is it still worth it at that point?
It does sort of "break" when you get your major sliver buffers out. I like it myself.
I got a majority of the cards yesterday, put the deck together last night, and played it against some of my other decks, (still missing 6 cards), and thoroughly beat my other decks into a pulp, repeatedly. So thanks for the advice. When I get the final cards, and decide 100% on what I want in there, I'll post it for critiquing. Thanks again.
It's been playing pretty well so far. It's really fast, and pulling a Titanic Ultimatum when the game has gone on too long spells a dead opponent Even if I've got to tap a bunch of slivers for mana. Ward Sliver, Root Sliver, and Harmonic Sliver have been seeing a fair bit of face time.
Next paycheck I'm going to add a few cards to the deck. I was thinking a playset of Crystalline Sliver and Quick Sliver.
@Halted Your suggestion of a few less slivers and more control cards is great. I'll have to look into it. Possibly just order some extra Mana Leak when I get the cards for my bird/control deck.
Due to the price on some of the better slivers, this is what I purchased for now. I know Sliver Queen, Sliver Overlord, and Sliver Legion are great.
I wasn't really a fan of any of the black slivers because I probably plan on adding Crystalline Sliver the soonest. The black sliver with deathtouch seems good, but also expensive.
This is what I have available to me.
4 Sidewinder Sliver
4 Gemhide Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Muscle Sliver
4 Heart Sliver
4 Hunter Sliver
4 Homing Sliver
2 Fury Sliver
4 Amoeboid Changeling
4 Virulent Sliver
2 Might Sliver
2 Ward Sliver
2 Root Sliver
4 Winged Sliver
4 Harmonic Sliver
4 Plated Sliver
4 Disenchant
4 Naturalize
4 Oblivion Ring
4 Kodama's Reach
Land
4 Terramorphic Expanse
3 Grand Coliseum
1 Vivid Grove
1 Vivid Meadow
1 Vivid Crag
1 Vivid Creek
Obviously which lands i use will change depending which slivers I keep, but I'm a bit confused as to where to go from here. Any suggestions would be great. Also suggestions for any other cheap cards I could add to really put it over the top would be great. Thanks guys. =)
Casual:
RG - Elemental Aggro
WGR - Slivers
GW - Cat Equipment
G - CIP Combo
MY TRADING POST!
I play Standard and Draft at The Universe of Superheroes / The Wizard's Guild in Athens, OH.
4x Gemhide Sliver
4x Heart Sliver
4x Muscle Sliver
4x Sinew Sliver
4x Two-Headed Sliver
4x Spined Sliver
4x Magma Sliver
4x Essence Sliver
4x Chromatic Sphere
2x Titanic Ultimatum
4x Talon Sliver
4x Hunter Sliver
Also, a thing to keep in mind when deckbuilding is to avoid redundancy. In your case, we really don't need double non-stacking abilities, like Haste, Flying, Provoke, Double Strike. Especially since you have Homing Sliver, which can search for any of these abilities in a pinch. So for the hasting, flying, provoking, double striking slivers, you should only run 1 or 2 of each.
As for the land base...since your deck is mostly creatures, you should use Ancient Ziggurat, a relatively cheap, uncommon land.
R: Copypasta Sauce {Browbeat}
UR: Mana Cache , One Spell to Bind them All {Magnetic Theft}
UG: Epic Struggle , All-In-Poison {Metamorphosis}
UW: Planar Overlay , Decree of the Bailiff {Saprazzan Bailiff}
BG: Thought Gorger , Dark Chroma {Umbra Stalker}
UBR: Dwarven Shrine
WUBRG: Dissipation Field , Maelstrom Nexus
This might be a dumb question, but is there something I don't know about Kodama's Reach?
I copy and pasted a card list from online, and didn't realize I had those in there. In other words, a brain fart. =P
Thanks for all the other great advice. I'll look into Ancient Ziggurat and I love the suggestion of Titanic Ultimatum.
I'll mock up a deck in a bit.
Casual:
RG - Elemental Aggro
WGR - Slivers
GW - Cat Equipment
G - CIP Combo
I think he just missed the part in your OP when you said you'd build the landbase after figuring out which slivers you wanted to run. So no, you aren't missing anything on Kodama's Reach.
Edit: And I completely agree with DLink's Homing Sliver advice. You could even run Homing Sliver in a deck which can't produce red if you just want the tutor ability.
Moderator Help Desk
Sales Thread
Casual:
RG - Elemental Aggro
WGR - Slivers
GW - Cat Equipment
G - CIP Combo
Brood Sliver: Overkill, if he's working then you're already winning.
Synapse Sliver: Ditto.
Toxin Sliver: Super fun 1 or 2 of.
Essense Sliver: Ditto.
Magma Sliver: You can build around his craziness, as stated above.
Sedge Sliver: Very good in a B/R or B/G/R build, not so much otherwise.
Plague Sliver: Great if you're not running a sliver deck.
Psionic Sliver: Great fun with tribal pump.
Fungus Sliver: Useful with Psionic.
Pulmonic Sliver: Me no likey. Winged Sliver grants the relevant ability at 1U.
Crystalline Sliver: You already seem to know it's the nuts. It really is.
Moderator Help Desk
Sales Thread
4 Gemhide Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Muscle Sliver
4 Homing Sliver
2 Talon Sliver
2 Heart Sliver
2 Two-Headed Sliver
2 Fury Sliver
2 Spined Sliver
2 Winged Sliver
2 Harmonic Sliver
4 Chromatic Sphere
2 Titanic Ultimatum
Land
4 Forest
4 Mountain
3 Plains
2 Island
4 Terramorphic Expanse
3 Grand Coliseum
1 Vivid Grove
1 Vivid Meadow
1 Vivid Crag
1 Vivid Creek
4 Virulent Sliver
4 Amoeboid Changeling
2 Ward Sliver
2 Root Sliver
2 Might Sliver
Sideboard in Virulent Sliver against life gain decks, Ward Sliver against any mono color deck, Root Sliver against a counter deck, Might Sliver when I need to win quickly, and Amoeboid Changeling against a tribal deck (to possibly take advantage of any bonuses my opponent might be giving to his creatures [Give them to my slivers/take them away from his creatures]). Also the Amoeboid Changeling/Sliver Overlord combo is great for stealing an opponents creatures. (I do plan on dumping more money into this in the future).
Casual:
RG - Elemental Aggro
WGR - Slivers
GW - Cat Equipment
G - CIP Combo
You have 11 lands that come into play tapped. I think between your Vivids, Terramorphics, Spheres, and Gemhides that you don't have need of the Coliseums. I would remove those 3 lands for 1 each of Mountain, Forest, and Plains.
Moderator Help Desk
Sales Thread
4 Gemhide Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Muscle Sliver
4 Homing Sliver
4 Sidewinder Sliver
2 Heart Sliver
2 Two-Headed Sliver
2 Fury Sliver
2 Spined Sliver
2 Winged Sliver
4 Chromatic Sphere
2 Titanic Ultimatum
Land
5 Forest
5 Mountain
4 Plains
2 Island
4 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Vivid Grove
1 Vivid Meadow
1 Vivid Crag
1 Vivid Creek
4 Virulent Sliver
4 Amoeboid Changeling
2 Ward Sliver
2 Root Sliver
2 Might Sliver
2 Talon Sliver
2 Harmonic Sliver
I realize my sideboard has too many cards, but seeing as how I play casual I doubt anyone will care. I could actually just remove the Amoeboid Changeling if anyone made a fuss.
Thanks for the suggestion. Since I'm pulling the Talon Sliver, and going with Two-headed/Sidewinder combo, would it be better to pull the Winged Sliver and leave the Harmonic Sliver in? My reasoning would be that since I've already got flanking running, and the bonus from Spined Sliver only helps that, then there isn't going to be much that can block me and survive, so I don't know if the evasion from the Winged Sliver is really necessary. I'd much rather have the destroy artifact/enchant granted from the Harmonic Sliver. Just a thought....I guess I could always sideboard in one or the other as necessity dictates.
The land suggestion was great. I wasn't too keen on having to take damage if I end up getting mana screwed when there are safer alternatives.
Casual:
RG - Elemental Aggro
WGR - Slivers
GW - Cat Equipment
G - CIP Combo
for 4 x plated sliver is way more useful especially since its a one drop. I'd bump up winged sliver to 3 since it's your only/better source of evasion.
My thought is that having your whole team suddenly fly can knock people from double digits to dead in about 0 seconds. However, Harmonic vs Winged is a call that is very dependent on the types of decks your friends play. If you are constantly dealing with troublesome or game-locking enchantments, then having Harmonic maindeck is more important than mass evasion.
That said I'd still try to fit in at least 1 Winged you could slivercycle for.
Moderator Help Desk
Sales Thread
Casual:
RG - Elemental Aggro
WGR - Slivers
GW - Cat Equipment
G - CIP Combo
R: Copypasta Sauce {Browbeat}
UR: Mana Cache , One Spell to Bind them All {Magnetic Theft}
UG: Epic Struggle , All-In-Poison {Metamorphosis}
UW: Planar Overlay , Decree of the Bailiff {Saprazzan Bailiff}
BG: Thought Gorger , Dark Chroma {Umbra Stalker}
UBR: Dwarven Shrine
WUBRG: Dissipation Field , Maelstrom Nexus
My countersliver deck has a bad manabase, and i have a few grand coliseums in there. If you can't get painlands or dual lands, I'd recommend using city of brass instead. You should be dealing way more damage than your opponent so the one damage isnt that big of a deal since it doesn't come into play tapped. if you fix the mana curves, you can pop in some aether vials, that way your slivers won't be counterable as well.
if you aren't winning by the time you have fury sliver out, I don't think it'll save the game. with the rule changes from m10, the synergy of spined and two headed loses a lot of its oomph since you have to deal damage in order now of blockers assigned. Plated slivers have definitely saved me many a times from various threats lol.
MY TRADING POST!
I play Standard and Draft at The Universe of Superheroes / The Wizard's Guild in Athens, OH.
Also. Put Wild Pair in. Its great when one sliver is 2, for free, or 3, or 4, or 5 (when you have 4 Wild Pairs out.)
Is Wild Pair really that good? at six mana even with a gemhide on turn 2 the fastest I could get it out would be turn.....4 i think? Is it still worth it at that point?
Casual:
RG - Elemental Aggro
WGR - Slivers
GW - Cat Equipment
G - CIP Combo
Ancient Ziggurat is your friend
It does sort of "break" when you get your major sliver buffers out. I like it myself.
Casual:
RG - Elemental Aggro
WGR - Slivers
GW - Cat Equipment
G - CIP Combo
4 Gemhide Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Muscle Sliver
4 Homing Sliver
4 Sidewinder Sliver
2 Heart Sliver
2 Two-Headed Sliver
2 Fury Sliver
2 Spined Sliver
2 Winged Sliver
4 Chromatic Sphere
2 Titanic Ultimatum
Land
5 Forest
5 Mountain
4 Plains
2 Island
4 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Vivid Grove
1 Vivid Meadow
1 Vivid Crag
1 Vivid Creek
4 Virulent Sliver
4 Amoeboid Changeling
2 Ward Sliver
2 Root Sliver
2 Might Sliver
2 Talon Sliver
2 Harmonic Sliver
It's been playing pretty well so far. It's really fast, and pulling a Titanic Ultimatum when the game has gone on too long spells a dead opponent Even if I've got to tap a bunch of slivers for mana. Ward Sliver, Root Sliver, and Harmonic Sliver have been seeing a fair bit of face time.
Any suggestions about dealing with Wrath of God and/or Akroma's Vengeance?
My next sliver purchases look like Crystalline Sliver, Sliver Legion, and maybe Toxin Sliver since I'll splash black for the legion.
Casual:
RG - Elemental Aggro
WGR - Slivers
GW - Cat Equipment
G - CIP Combo
I'd do:
04 Seaside Citadel
04 Bant Panorama
05 Forest
05 Plains
02 Island
04 Sidewinder Sliver
04 Virulent Sliver
04 Sinew Sliver
04 Muscle Sliver
03 Quick Sliver
03 Winged Sliver
02 Harmonic Sliver
04 Mana Tithe
04 Mana Leak
04 Condemn
04 Eladamri's Call
Of course, when you grab some AEther Vial, Daze, Crystalline Sliver, Force of Will, Standstill, Stifle, Fetchlands, Duals....then you go up to Legacy champs, :D.
But to have alot of fun, and still to beatdown some asses, it's really good.
Hope being helpful.
@Halted Your suggestion of a few less slivers and more control cards is great. I'll have to look into it. Possibly just order some extra Mana Leak when I get the cards for my bird/control deck.
Casual:
RG - Elemental Aggro
WGR - Slivers
GW - Cat Equipment
G - CIP Combo