A budget sliver deck I have been working on for quite sometime. I have thought of splashing blue but it is just too costy I'm thinking of adding Sidewinder Sliver but I have no idea what to take out. Ward Slivers help against red board sweep, and the rest is pretty self explanatory I think
Any comments, suggestions would be appreciated.
Reasons: In a G/W Sliver deck, you never ever want to not be able to drop a beater first turn. Thus 3 one drops are important. Instead of running vial, because this is NOT a fish deck, work more on your curve. With the changes I made, your curve is now three, and all the pump plus flanking will make short work of most blockers.
I'd take out Rampant Growth. Almost all your slivers cost 1 or 2 mana, you've got the Vial, and you've got 4 Gemhide. You could put two basic land in and that opens up 2 spots.
I'd replace the Pacifism with Oblivion Ring, it costs 1 more mana and removes the permanent (not just creature) from the game, which stops them from any activated or triggered abilities instead of just preventing them from blocking or attacking.
I'd leave in the Vial and not add Spinerret sliver like the above poster suggested. Leave that in your sideboard if you really need it that bad. You're going to want to win before you even get overwhelmed by fliers. You should be attacking anyways, not leaving your guys open to block a flier.
I didn't suggest Spinerret because of the fact it can block fliers. I suggested it because its a 2 drop 2/2 sliver. Again, working with the curve. I run a G/W Sliver Legacy deck sometimes, and everything I suggested I run myself, because I know it works.
I would suggest against captured sunlight. The purpose of your deck is to get as many slivers out as fast as possible, pump them up as big as possible, and attack as often as possible. You don't need to pay 4 mana to gain 4 life (useless) to cascade into a free spell - which will probably be a 2 CMC sliver. If anything, I'd run 4 Harmonize just to refill your hand and you'll draw 3 slivers.
Thanks everyone for the advice, but is there anything against red mass removal or any type of mass removal except Ward Sliver?
I will also replace Pacifism with Oblivion Ring and replace the Rampant Growths with Steely Resolve, that way it doesn't disturb the mana curve in anyway
Burrenton Forge Tender, but it's not a sliver. Hmm.. Hivestone could help with that. My mind's blanking here.
Plated Sliver, Sinew Sliver, and Muscle Sliver can all buff your slivers, you could just be tougher than the red sweeper spells. This may be your best bet.
Mana Tithe to counter it if he's tapping out to cast it.
Frenetic Sliver stops burn 50% of the time but it's in the wrong colors.
Burrenton Forge Tender, but it's not a sliver. Hmm.. Hivestone could help with that. My mind's blanking here.
Plated Sliver, Sinew Sliver, and Muscle Sliver can all buff your slivers, you could just be tougher than the red sweeper spells. This may be your best bet.
Mana Tithe to counter it if he's tapping out to cast it.
Frenetic Sliver stops burn 50% of the time but it's in the wrong colors.
Burrenton Forge Tender, but it's not a sliver. Hmm.. Hivestone could help with that. My mind's blanking here.
Plated Sliver, Sinew Sliver, and Muscle Sliver can all buff your slivers, you could just be tougher than the red sweeper spells. This may be your best bet.
Mana Tithe to counter it if he's tapping out to cast it.
Frenetic Sliver stops burn 50% of the time but it's in the wrong colors.
Other than Mana Tithe, the rest of the cards in my post will still help against volcanic fallout. And Frenetic Sliver is not BR, it's UR, and I stated that in the post.
It may be a pit pricey, but maybe Living Wish could be of some use? It'll let you put some of the more specific use Slivers (Harmonic Sliver or Spinneret Sliver) in your "sideboard" and pull them out if necessary.
Granted this may be too slow for your deck, but it's another option.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Black & Silver Cube [360/Peasant/Draft It! EDH Decks: - Reya Dawnbringer // - Mistform Ultimus // - Balthor the Defiled // - Urabrask the Hidden // - Mirri, Cat Warrior
Agreed, Mana Tithe is very useful, not just for mass removal.
Except that, t1 Plated Sliver + t2 Any other PUmper (Muscle or SInew) you're safe from Fallout.
G00dGames: if you're using Steely Resolve, Ward Sliver is really unnecessary. Another point is: Ward Sliver don't protect you from mass removal, just targeted one.
Gemhide Sliver is really a non-threat drop, i'd remove it, as Essence Sliver, since Victual Sliver is faster and do the job (i wouldn't care about lifegain, except if you face burn too much)
Quick Sliver is really a nice critter you should put it in.
From your last list:
-3 Ward
-1 Essence
-4 Gemhide
G00dGames: if you're using Steely Resolve, Ward Sliver is really unnecessary. Another point is: Ward Sliver don't protect you from mass removal, just targeted one.
Gemhide Sliver is really a non-threat drop, i'd remove it, as Essence Sliver, since Victual Sliver is faster and do the job (i wouldn't care about lifegain, except if you face burn too much)
I agree, though. Steely Resolve will provide enough protection. By the time Ward Sliver comes out, you'll have already won or lost.
To each his own about Gemhide Sliver, though. While it doesn't provide a damage bonus and it slows your game down, I really do like this card - I can drop an exponential number of slivers in hand early game by dropping this guy and tapping other slivers for mana to bring out other slivers. By the time you play your whole hand, you can usually overwhelm them in two turns - as opposed to just attacking constantly.
I almost always agree with Halted Asylum, though, so I'd take his advice over mine.
I agree, though. Steely Resolve will provide enough protection. By the time Ward Sliver comes out, you'll have already won or lost.
To each his own about Gemhide Sliver, though. While it doesn't provide a damage bonus and it slows your game down, I really do like this card - I can drop an exponential number of slivers in hand early game by dropping this guy and tapping other slivers for mana to bring out other slivers. By the time you play your whole hand, you can usually overwhelm them in two turns - as opposed to just attacking constantly.
Agreed, vs Fallout it'll do the job, but as you stated not vs most sweepers out there, that's the reason why i dismissed it (specially that red mass sweepers aren't the real threat)
About Gemhide it's really a illusionary exponential drop, let's take an example with agressive hands.
Hand: mana, mana, plated, muscle, sinew, sinew, any other critter/gemhide
Example with any critter:
mana, plated
mana, muscle (2 damage)
sinew (6 damage)
sinew (12 damage) = not opposed, gg
Example with Gemhide
mana, plated
mana, gemhide (1 damage)
muscle, sinew (no damage, tapped everyone)
sinew (16 damage) or If you don't slam, and go for exponential cast, you can tap for up another 2 two cmc critters.
Case 1 = 4 creatures = 20 damage by 4th turn.
Case 2 = 6 creatures = 1 damage by 4th turn.
See, it's pointless to do it, you're increasing your creature bench but just using as mana outlet, not providing any threat for the opponent, while case 1 you'll be putting pressure on his life, just to have the "exponential" 2 other creatures out. Not to mention that overextending is really risk for any tribal deck.
Not criticizing, just pointing out, since too many people have that impression.
I almost always agree with Halted Asylum, though, so I'd take his advice over mine.
Thx by the compliment, but please don't take my words just because you think that i'm often right.
If you think your arguments are solid enough, keep it, and let to OP or who ever read it, test it and get his own conclusion. I saw many clever ideas being dropped just because some "often right" guys dismissing it, and after sometime, the deck proved they were wrong (that happens very often on Standard, but those "often right" guys, are indeed often right..:D)
That happens specially in casual, when an advice is not always about being a solid one, but some that fits the OP (sometimes wacky) strategy or even his fun.
Just to say that i agree with you many times as well.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Now i lay you, down to rest, you'll never be more than second best" (Megadeth)
Agreed, vs Fallout it'll do the job, but as you stated not vs most sweepers out there, that's the reason why i dismissed it (specially that red mass sweepers aren't the real threat)
About Gemhide it's really a illusionary exponential drop, let's take an example with agressive hands.
Hand: mana, mana, plated, muscle, sinew, sinew, any other critter/gemhide
Example with any critter:
mana, plated
mana, muscle (2 damage)
sinew (6 damage)
sinew (12 damage) = not opposed, gg
Example with Gemhide
mana, plated
mana, gemhide (1 damage)
muscle, sinew (no damage, tapped everyone)
sinew (16 damage) or If you don't slam, and go for exponential cast, you can tap for up another 2 two cmc critters.
Case 1 = 4 creatures = 20 damage by 4th turn.
Case 2 = 6 creatures = 1 damage by 4th turn.
See, it's pointless to do it, you're increasing your creature bench but just using as mana outlet, not providing any threat for the opponent, while case 1 you'll be putting pressure on his life, just to have the "exponential" 2 other creatures out. Not to mention that overextending is really risk for any tribal deck.
Not criticizing, just pointing out, since too many people have that impression.
Thx by the compliment, but please don't take my words just because you think that i'm often right.
If you think your arguments are solid enough, keep it, and let to OP or who ever read it, test it and get his own conclusion. I saw many clever ideas being dropped just because some "often right" guys dismissing it, and after sometime, the deck proved they were wrong (that happens very often on Standard, but those "often right" guys, are indeed often right..:D)
That happens specially in casual, when an advice is not always about being a solid one, but some that fits the OP (sometimes wacky) strategy or even his fun.
Just to say that i agree with you many times as well.
I think that Gemhide will have its ups and downs really depending on the situation. I mean obviously a Muscle sliver or a Sinew sliver would be a better choice of play with the mana you got if they have no blockers.
4 Might Sliver
4 Muscle Sliver
4 Virulent Sliver
4 Plated Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
3 Ward Sliver
4 Rampant Growth
4 Aether Vial
4 Terramorphic Expanse
7 Forest
9 Plains
A budget sliver deck I have been working on for quite sometime. I have thought of splashing blue but it is just too costy I'm thinking of adding Sidewinder Sliver but I have no idea what to take out. Ward Slivers help against red board sweep, and the rest is pretty self explanatory I think
Any comments, suggestions would be appreciated.
-3 Ward Sliver
-4 Pacifism
-4 Rampant Growth
-4 Aether Vial
+4 Sidewinder Sliver
+4 Spinneret Sliver
+4 Harmonic Sliver
+4 Steely Resolve, Shared Triumph, or Crown of Vigor (Super Budget.)
And if you can:
-4 Expanses
+4 Brushland
or
+4 Horizon Canopy
Reasons: In a G/W Sliver deck, you never ever want to not be able to drop a beater first turn. Thus 3 one drops are important. Instead of running vial, because this is NOT a fish deck, work more on your curve. With the changes I made, your curve is now three, and all the pump plus flanking will make short work of most blockers.
I'd replace the Pacifism with Oblivion Ring, it costs 1 more mana and removes the permanent (not just creature) from the game, which stops them from any activated or triggered abilities instead of just preventing them from blocking or attacking.
I'd leave in the Vial and not add Spinerret sliver like the above poster suggested. Leave that in your sideboard if you really need it that bad. You're going to want to win before you even get overwhelmed by fliers. You should be attacking anyways, not leaving your guys open to block a flier.
Currently Playing:
I'd go with:
04 Sidewind Sliver
04 Plated Sliver
04 Sinew Sliver
04 Muscle Sliver
03 Quick Sliver
01 Victual Sliver
04 Qasali Pridemage
04 Swords to Plowshares
04 Mana Tithe
04 Steely Resolve
04 AEther Vial
Hope being helpful.
Currently Playing:
I will also replace Pacifism with Oblivion Ring and replace the Rampant Growths with Steely Resolve, that way it doesn't disturb the mana curve in anyway
Plated Sliver, Sinew Sliver, and Muscle Sliver can all buff your slivers, you could just be tougher than the red sweeper spells. This may be your best bet.
Mana Tithe to counter it if he's tapping out to cast it.
Frenetic Sliver stops burn 50% of the time but it's in the wrong colors.
Currently Playing:
You're forgetting Volcanic Fallout, and Frenetic Sliver is UR o.O
4 Might Sliver
4 Muscle Sliver
4 Virulent Sliver
4 Plated Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
3 Ward Sliver
4 Steely Resolve
4 Aether Vial
4 Terramorphic Expanse
7 Forest
9 Plains
Patriarch's Bidding is literally the best graveyard recursion there is for tribal decks. They can sweep, but they all come back.
Other than Mana Tithe, the rest of the cards in my post will still help against volcanic fallout. And Frenetic Sliver is not BR, it's UR, and I stated that in the post.
Currently Playing:
Granted this may be too slow for your deck, but it's another option.
EDH Decks:
- Reya Dawnbringer // - Mistform Ultimus // - Balthor the Defiled // - Urabrask the Hidden // - Mirri, Cat Warrior
Except that, t1 Plated Sliver + t2 Any other PUmper (Muscle or SInew) you're safe from Fallout.
G00dGames: if you're using Steely Resolve, Ward Sliver is really unnecessary. Another point is: Ward Sliver don't protect you from mass removal, just targeted one.
Gemhide Sliver is really a non-threat drop, i'd remove it, as Essence Sliver, since Victual Sliver is faster and do the job (i wouldn't care about lifegain, except if you face burn too much)
Quick Sliver is really a nice critter you should put it in.
From your last list:
-3 Ward
-1 Essence
-4 Gemhide
+3 Quick Sliver
+4 Mana Tithe
+1 Victual Sliver
Hope been helpful
Just pointing out that Ward Sliver WILL protect against mass removal - but only Volcanic Fallout (which was specifically mentioned by the poster), not Wrath of God or Infest.
I agree, though. Steely Resolve will provide enough protection. By the time Ward Sliver comes out, you'll have already won or lost.
To each his own about Gemhide Sliver, though. While it doesn't provide a damage bonus and it slows your game down, I really do like this card - I can drop an exponential number of slivers in hand early game by dropping this guy and tapping other slivers for mana to bring out other slivers. By the time you play your whole hand, you can usually overwhelm them in two turns - as opposed to just attacking constantly.
I almost always agree with Halted Asylum, though, so I'd take his advice over mine.
Currently Playing:
Agreed, vs Fallout it'll do the job, but as you stated not vs most sweepers out there, that's the reason why i dismissed it (specially that red mass sweepers aren't the real threat)
About Gemhide it's really a illusionary exponential drop, let's take an example with agressive hands.
Hand: mana, mana, plated, muscle, sinew, sinew, any other critter/gemhide
Example with any critter:
mana, plated
mana, muscle (2 damage)
sinew (6 damage)
sinew (12 damage) = not opposed, gg
Example with Gemhide
mana, plated
mana, gemhide (1 damage)
muscle, sinew (no damage, tapped everyone)
sinew (16 damage) or If you don't slam, and go for exponential cast, you can tap for up another 2 two cmc critters.
Case 1 = 4 creatures = 20 damage by 4th turn.
Case 2 = 6 creatures = 1 damage by 4th turn.
See, it's pointless to do it, you're increasing your creature bench but just using as mana outlet, not providing any threat for the opponent, while case 1 you'll be putting pressure on his life, just to have the "exponential" 2 other creatures out. Not to mention that overextending is really risk for any tribal deck.
Not criticizing, just pointing out, since too many people have that impression.
Thx by the compliment, but please don't take my words just because you think that i'm often right.
If you think your arguments are solid enough, keep it, and let to OP or who ever read it, test it and get his own conclusion. I saw many clever ideas being dropped just because some "often right" guys dismissing it, and after sometime, the deck proved they were wrong (that happens very often on Standard, but those "often right" guys, are indeed often right..:D)
That happens specially in casual, when an advice is not always about being a solid one, but some that fits the OP (sometimes wacky) strategy or even his fun.
Just to say that i agree with you many times as well.
Which non-sliver spell?
There are a lot of suggestions which are all non-sliver spells.
Its a decent option, but I don't know if I'd run black just for bidding. Black slivers as a whole aren't that great.
I've tried Patriarch's Bidding before. A great card, BUT too expensive and it requires BB :S
I think that Gemhide will have its ups and downs really depending on the situation. I mean obviously a Muscle sliver or a Sinew sliver would be a better choice of play with the mana you got if they have no blockers.
2 Might Sliver
4 Muscle Sliver
4 Virulent Sliver
4 Plated Sliver
4 Sidewinder Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Victual Sliver
2 Harmonize
4 Oblivion Ring
4 Shared Triumph
4 Aether Vial
4 Brushland
7 Forest
9 Plains