To be clear, this is a really rough sketch. The basic idea is a combination of Doomwake Giant for board control, and the white enchantment creatures to limit the opponent's options. Constellation cards with life loss give incremental advantage over the course of the game. I considered including green for elidon of blossoms and ramp, but I'm not sure the color gives enough advantage outside of that. This deck probably needs a fe more cuts, but do you guys have any suggestions? Once
To be clear, this is a really rough sketch. The basic idea is a combination of Doomwake Giant for board control, and the white enchantment creatures to limit the opponent's options. Constellation cards with life loss give incremental advantage over the course of the game. I considered including green for elidon of blossoms and ramp, but I'm not sure the color gives enough advantage outside of that. This deck probably needs a fe more cuts, but do you guys have any suggestions? Once
I think constellation will absolutely be a viable archetype in block. That being said i believe the strongs constellation cards to be ediolon of blossoms and doomwake giant. The inherent and repetitive ETB effects will gain alot of value when coupled with the likes of courser. Also, BG shell can support pharika well which give you further abuse o constellation triggers as well as having a good chance of being a creature with the build i have in mind.
Spamming cheap enchantment creatures with both of those cards in play does sound powerful. I was also looking at a Red/Black setup with doomwake giant and the red pinger. Heloid could be useful for triggering constellation on demand, but I'm worried about the cost on his ability.
Which enchantments do you consider "mediocre"? I was looking at WB from a heavy control setup similar to legacy enchantress decks. I may have to look at the green splash again. I agree that elidon of blossoms seems too good to pass up.
What I would give for ivory mask over aegis of the gods...
The idea here is you spend the early turns ramping (with Font and Courser) or discarding (with Thoughtseize and Brain Maggot). Baleful Eidolon and Courser play defense where needed. 20 enchantments at 3cc or less. This means you can start abusing Eidolon and Insight as draw engines. Nyx Weaver and Whip (and Whip into Nyx Weaver) let you recur things. As you stabilize, you set up turns where you can drop multiple enchantments in a turn to trigger the hell out of constellation for Doomwake Giant and Eidolon.
Still might need more finishing power. The enchantment creatures aren't that big in combat. Maybe more Gods maindeck?
As for SB, Agent is vs Junk Reanimator, Drown in Sorrow vs random aggro, Fate Unraveler vs Esper Control, Erebos vs random lifegain or if you need a God for more beatdown. Dictate comes in if you need more mid-game board control (e.g. vs midrange or reanimator)
Other cards I considered include: Gnarled Scarhide -- 1cc enchantment, which is awesome, but it forces you into a more aggro role when there are not many good aggro tools to back it up
Font of Return -- maybe as a 2-of. this has the potential to generate some serious card advantage by triggering constellation itself for only 2cc and then giving you 3 creatures back/multiple constellation triggers. seems decent but couldn't find room; the other cards seem better.
Grim Guardian -- this would really abuse the repeating constellation and help you have reach to win. I favored Courser for the ramp and helping you stabilize against aggro (lifegain, plus the extra power is really good against bears), but Guardian could possibly take Courser's spot. was a toss up for me. in combination with Erebos denying them lifegain and slow drain from Fate Unraveler, this could be pretty brutal.
Pharika, God of Affliction -- bad god seems bad. I don't want to exile my own creatures, I want to recur them. I don't want to give opponent deathtouch creatures. also, 3cc slot has a lot of competition. but it could be a nice cheap body. don't know if I like this more than Erebos or Nylea.
Boon Satyr -- great card. probably more aggro than my list, but might fit well in a list with Gnarled Scarhide and more beatdown (Eidolons?). too much competition at 3cc slot.
Herald of Torment -- awesome card. probably too aggro again, and competes with 3cc slot.
Strategy: Playin ramp with heavy threat density on the back of the best card drawing bodies in the set provides some of the best card draw this set is capable of while maintaining aggression. This coupled with late (but as early as t4) game constellation triggers to provide constant residual value by means of card draw and recurring infest effects will provide a stable board state and answers to many of the formats biggest threats.
1 drops: thoughtseize... Nuff said, should be 4
2 drops: Sylvan carytid- best blanking blocker around and ramps to heavier threats.
3 drops: 4 courser of kruphix- one of the best anti aggro bodies around with impeccable value attached in the form of card draw. A must have.
4 Boon satyr: Black has beeter enchantment creature threats but why ask for BB and GG on t3 when you really don't need to? flash also works as a great early game kill spell against aggro.
4 hero's downfall: of course
2 consign to dust: I am not worried about god's yet to ask my enchanment removal to be exile (maybe againt reanimator). The potential for a 2 for 1 at t6 (or 5) is something I very much agree with in the format.
4 drops: Eidolon of Blossoms- Get ready to see this card make waves in this format. Making the large majority of your creatures have ETB "draw a card" is insane value while he already replaces himself and sits at 2/2 (anything bigger would be OP). THe combination of this card and courser is going to give this deck so much steam it will be unbearable.
polukranos- because he is the best t3 play in the game (carytid)
Nylea-The green symbol action in this deck is great enough that she can definately become a creature but having all your dudes have trample after dropping doomwake giant seems amazing. You also need away to get through tokens and have a mana sink.
5 drops- Doomwake giant. Respect this guy he is a sleeper in this format. He will wreck you. Elspeth? Cool drops doomwake and attacks through with creatures. Force her to -3. It won't get your eidolons or your courser and having a boonsatyr in hand for bestow just makes her death easier (also putting satyr on a 4 toughness critter helps make sure you kill her if she -3's. You can really force Elspeth's hand here and have an out for either choice. The recurring constellation effects with eidolon and doomwake are going to be absurd value and doomwake will guarantee the fight is uneven.
Against aggro: You win. Simple as that lol. Carytid and courser are the best bodies in the format against aggro helping you draw outs and gain life while being bigger butts that most the opponents critters have power. If you curve out on doomwake they just in a crappy position. Eidolon requires a kill card else you will draw out easily (but she already replaced herself sickkkkk and is only 2/2. GO ahead downfall it). Doomwake sitting down is just going to put the hurt on fast especially if you're drawing cards. Flyers might get buy but we have the best kill cards in the format in downfall and even better, silence the beliebers.
Against reanimator: Reanimator will cease to exist as it's current build. And agent of erebos fits this decks strat so perfectly that no reanimator build would be good against it. Recurrent grave wipes.
Against control: Might be more difficult but we've yet to experience the full effect that drawing off bodies like eidolon and courser has. They require kill cards if resolved from control else we draw steam into a sideboarded mistcutter. But that means mistcutter, polukranos, and doomwake are going to stick around if resolved and the early guys took kill cards. If you curve out, I feel good about this matchup.
I am veryyyyy excited to play this deck and am very confident it has the answers to format leaders.
Elspeth: Well we MAY have already killed you esper because you play 12 taplands but just in case you think +1 ing will get you out, doomwake lands. Attack freely minions. And hell we got downfall as a backup. O and she's top target for thoughtseize.
Prog sphinx: who cares, he can't hand the threats with it and he gains no card adv off of it while courser and eidolon do. When facing down aggressive builds sphinx is not as good if the threats are big enough or numerous enough.
Thoughtseize: nothin u can do bout that.
Whip: consign to dust
Herald: any of my non seize spells kills it.
Agent: Harder one, but hopefully i draw a kill spell.
Hero of iroa going nuts: It's heroic what you gon do bout it? Hopefully draw a thoughtseize or silence the beliebers (this card will wreck heroic)
Im done. I think this deck is going to have a good time or at least a very similar variant of it. If you have any questions or arguments I'd love to hear them.
Looks pretty good, VonPapen. That said, the new black aggro looks particularly nasty, although Courser and Caryatid are the thorn in that deck's side.
Here's a brew I came up with today, in the enchantress vein... partially inspired by Conley Woods most recent article. Mana base probably needs work, I just populated it with lands. Not sure if it needs more scry or confluence, but the mana req's don't seem too bad.
Now the board would likely have Doomwake/Courser, which could move to the main deck over Nemesis of Mortals should they be better against the field. That may actually just be the correct move, but as it stands there are 18 enchantments to trigger constellation, plus anything you turn into a snake with Pharika. It's dredge and enchantress, in one. Brain Maggot and Nylea could both fit in this deck as well, as giving your giant dudes trample is pretty good.
Looks pretty good, VonPapen. That said, the new black aggro looks particularly nasty, although Courser and Caryatid are the thorn in that deck's side.
Here's a brew I came up with today, in the enchantress vein... partially inspired by Conley Woods most recent article. Mana base probably needs work, I just populated it with lands. Not sure if it needs more scry or confluence, but the mana req's don't seem too bad.
Now the board would likely have Doomwake/Courser, which could move to the main deck over Nemesis of Mortals should they be better against the field. That may actually just be the correct move, but as it stands there are 18 enchantments to trigger constellation, plus anything you turn into a snake with Pharika. It's dredge and enchantress, in one. Brain Maggot and Nylea could both fit in this deck as well, as giving your giant dudes trample is pretty good.
Just two cents worth of thoughts I had.
You are htting strongly close to how the new reanimator will form out to be in my opinion. It will need to be filled with more threats and lower cost threats that can run well after a agent of erebos is dropped.
Strategy: Playin ramp with heavy threat density on the back of the best card drawing bodies in the set provides some of the best card draw this set is capable of while maintaining aggression. This coupled with late (but as early as t4) game constellation triggers to provide constant residual value by means of card draw and recurring infest effects will provide a stable board state and answers to many of the formats biggest threats.
1 drops: thoughtseize... Nuff said, should be 4
2 drops: Sylvan carytid- best blanking blocker around and ramps to heavier threats.
3 drops: 4 courser of kruphix- one of the best anti aggro bodies around with impeccable value attached in the form of card draw. A must have.
4 Boon satyr: Black has beeter enchantment creature threats but why ask for BB and GG on t3 when you really don't need to? flash also works as a great early game kill spell against aggro.
4 hero's downfall: of course
2 consign to dust: I am not worried about god's yet to ask my enchanment removal to be exile (maybe againt reanimator). The potential for a 2 for 1 at t6 (or 5) is something I very much agree with in the format.
4 drops: Eidolon of Blossoms- Get ready to see this card make waves in this format. Making the large majority of your creatures have ETB "draw a card" is insane value while he already replaces himself and sits at 2/2 (anything bigger would be OP). THe combination of this card and courser is going to give this deck so much steam it will be unbearable.
polukranos- because he is the best t3 play in the game (carytid)
Nylea-The green symbol action in this deck is great enough that she can definately become a creature but having all your dudes have trample after dropping doomwake giant seems amazing. You also need away to get through tokens and have a mana sink.
5 drops- Doomwake giant. Respect this guy he is a sleeper in this format. He will wreck you. Elspeth? Cool drops doomwake and attacks through with creatures. Force her to -3. It won't get your eidolons or your courser and having a boonsatyr in hand for bestow just makes her death easier (also putting satyr on a 4 toughness critter helps make sure you kill her if she -3's. You can really force Elspeth's hand here and have an out for either choice. The recurring constellation effects with eidolon and doomwake are going to be absurd value and doomwake will guarantee the fight is uneven.
Against aggro: You win. Simple as that lol. Carytid and courser are the best bodies in the format against aggro helping you draw outs and gain life while being bigger butts that most the opponents critters have power. If you curve out on doomwake they just in a crappy position. Eidolon requires a kill card else you will draw out easily (but she already replaced herself sickkkkk and is only 2/2. GO ahead downfall it). Doomwake sitting down is just going to put the hurt on fast especially if you're drawing cards. Flyers might get buy but we have the best kill cards in the format in downfall and even better, silence the beliebers.
Against reanimator: Reanimator will cease to exist as it's current build. And agent of erebos fits this decks strat so perfectly that no reanimator build would be good against it. Recurrent grave wipes.
Against control: Might be more difficult but we've yet to experience the full effect that drawing off bodies like eidolon and courser has. They require kill cards if resolved from control else we draw steam into a sideboarded mistcutter. But that means mistcutter, polukranos, and doomwake are going to stick around if resolved and the early guys took kill cards. If you curve out, I feel good about this matchup.
I am veryyyyy excited to play this deck and am very confident it has the answers to format leaders.
Elspeth: Well we MAY have already killed you esper because you play 12 taplands but just in case you think +1 ing will get you out, doomwake lands. Attack freely minions. And hell we got downfall as a backup. O and she's top target for thoughtseize.
Prog sphinx: who cares, he can't hand the threats with it and he gains no card adv off of it while courser and eidolon do. When facing down aggressive builds sphinx is not as good if the threats are big enough or numerous enough.
Thoughtseize: nothin u can do bout that.
Whip: consign to dust
Herald: any of my non seize spells kills it.
Agent: Harder one, but hopefully i draw a kill spell.
Hero of iroa going nuts: It's heroic what you gon do bout it? Hopefully draw a thoughtseize or silence the beliebers (this card will wreck heroic)
Im done. I think this deck is going to have a good time or at least a very similar variant of it. If you have any questions or arguments I'd love to hear them.
Have been testing something similar to this, however I'm really concerned about its vulnerability to Bile Blight/Drown in Sorrow/Anger of the Gods as the deck feels like it relies on Eidolon of Blossoms a LOT to get going and am hesitant to carry on working on it because of this. Anyone got any thoughts on this?
Well think about it a bit. What is prone to being bile blighted in this deck? Eidolon of blossoms and boon satyr. Boon satyr can be bestowed so it makes him ok but not great against blight as sometimes you want to curve out with im as a threat. THe thing about Eidolon is that she has already replaced herself when they blight. You don't mind her being blighted as it has cost them a card and you have not been cost a card in terms of card adv. This deck is resilient to drown as only eidolon and boon satyr go down to it but you can play around that with boon satyr (or side it out). Nothing else dies to it so I think it would be a very poor choice against this deck. I have not even included a SB here but you can imagine it might be something like bile blight for satyr or hell drown in sorrow (again we lose no card adv playing eidolon and would likely hold eidolon until after sorrow is played). And the deck doesn't rely on eidolon it plays like a midrange build. It relies on threats and board presence. Again, eidolon is not a wincon but an enabler. Courser can make this go as much as eidolon. Eidolon can just make it go nuts.
Prone targets to BB are Eidolon, Boon Satyr and Herald of Torment for builds running it, and I don't think this deck has the luxury of being able to hold back its creatures as you do against BB because it generally relies of threat volume rather than threat quality to win, as you say it relies on board presence to win. The possible prevalence) of decent sweepers in the format is therefore a worry for this strategy. Like as you rightly say, the Eidolon replaces itself even if it dies, but into what? A bunch of cards which are on their own suboptimal without the Eidolon in play- Boon Satyr and Herald are both very fragile, and while Doomwake can easily wipe the board against aggro, it offers no evasion or anything to make it stick against control decks. Basically, my own testing has led me back to just wanting to take a slightly heavier approach of GB based on board control and more resilient threats like Reaper of the Wilds, which in turn allows you to make use of Drown in Sorrow yourself so the aggro matchups are still very favourable (although IMO this deck still suffers from a lack of a really solid wincon). I really do want this deck to work though because when it gets going its great and obviously a lot of fun to play as well... and I'm sure someone will crack an optimal build once more is known about the format. Keep us posted on your testing, and I'll let you know if I go back in on it, maybe we can get somewhere towards it
I will post when I start testing on mtgo. But to you points (i accidentally deleted this so this is the truncated version:
1. Bile blight has 2 targets in the deck list i wrote (i dont play herald it is too much on mana to ask for a BB and GG on T3). It's targets are a plain played boon satyr and a eidolon of blossoms. Satyr might never be a target and eidolon replaced itself so whatever (more on this later).
2. Sweepers that currently are seeing play are only drown and MBA isn'g playing it so the only deck that would play a sweeper is control. Same as blight, suboptimal targets. If he gets two eidolons I already have drawn 3 cards of them and it's and again satyr will likely never be a target in that one ( and may be sided out). Also the only deck that mainboards 4 bile blight is control.
3. Eidolon replaces itself with what? Card draw baby! I'll take a land even. Against aggro that means they spent a turn shooting a 2/2 that replaced itself (awesome) and against esper that means One less kill spell for the next threat. Card adv on a body is too good to ignore and if he goes off more than once his value has already made me more than fine with him being targeted (couple that with courser draws). Saito recently saw the same potential and created a deck around many of the same components as mine. http://imgur.com/a/qJpMH#12
4. Heavier win cons- Meh polukranos and doomwake are fine imo. Polu is a must answer and doomwake gains alot of value against certain decks and is a a big body. Although i do love reaper (play her in my Ana walkers deck) I opted for more enchantment creatures for value plays. This deck could also always splash blue for kiora and ashiok like the Ana walkers list also.
Having fun reading this; I don't have much to contribute. Does anyone know how to edit the thread title? The lists mentioned have mostly been GBw. I'd like to change the thread title to reflect that.
VonPapen I really like your decklist I will also test it and post here. At a first look I think the deck can really slow down aggro enough to take control of the game. Against control I am really curious if Doomwake is efficient against Elspeth and if the sweeper really works against Sphinx. But I also fear the GR matchup, Polis Crusher seems like the archenemy of the deck.
These are fair worries and good points. We cannot really tell how it will play out. I have found from my own BGU lists online that carytid to courser to killspells can be a total showstopper for aggro if they cannot take out courser. The issue i have had with bug is that my mana sucks so i am worrisome to block with carytid and courser in early game due to boon and burn spells. This deck won't have that problem as much. The doomwake situation is a tough one to tell but think about it. Doomwake is on the field first and then Elspeth comes down how does the elspeth player tick her? If they +1 they risk getting them board wiped the next turn and then having whatever is on board swinging at them. So, in my opinion, Elspeth has to tick down to kill doomwake (hell you could flash a satyr in EOT and board wipe early). This will miss eidolon and courses which can attack. Follow that with an instant speed boon satyr on wahtever doesn't get blocked and Elspeth has earned them a 1 for 1 and wasted one of your attacks. Let's look at the other situation. Elspeth is on board and ticked up. You play doomwake and swing through. If elspeth survives she will likely not have enough loyalty to tick down and kill doomwake so they will tick her up.... and you just drop another enchantment creature wiping them again. Doomwake is good against Elspeth. What I'm not taking into account are kill spells which can very interrupt the above sequence of events. That's why I like the addition of 2 whips by robx13. I had considered it but I wanted to be beat down but pull doomwake back might be worth having the whip.
Just finished a short session vs. WW/Mono W heroic (Phalanx Leader, Favoured Hoplite, Fabled Hero, Launch the Fleet etc.) Lost badly, 0-4, and on the play every time. Frankly it just felt far too slow. Doomwake Giant comes down far too late to be effective (and by that point all the heroic creatures are at about 3 or 4 toughness putting them well out of reach)- it did clear out soldier tokens but came nowhere near to wiping an entire board. Bile Blight is difficult to cast early given the green base of the deck and again suffers when creatures get big. Eidolon is usually needed to chump as soon as it comes down, although does 2-for-1 a fair amount of the time, and is probably one of the better cards to have in this matchup. As expected, Courser was the most useful card on the whole. Of course, I'm sure I could have played these games better (though the player I tested with is pretty much exactly the same level as me, if not a bit worse), but I really worry that for an aggro dominated metagame at least, this deck will be too slow. There's only so much card draw based catching up you can do once you get behind and Doomwake Giant, though powerful, lacks real immediate board impact unless it's against Elspeth.
I think the mono white launch the everything deck looks might be solid. Were you playing with sideboards? Because against a very aggressive, go "wide" strategy that such a white deck would employ i can see this deck losing game 1 (not every time by any means) if spear lands unanswered or phalanx leader goes off. Perhaps try my list for a bit? I did not include bile blight or herald because it competes with t2 carytid/ t3 courser and i have lost enough to that kind of mana base in the past to not push it. Also, I am not surprised your build would have difficulty with heroic going off as the deck only has 1 silence the beliebers and 1 anti enchantment card. Silence should be a three of in my opinion because it blows out heroic decks and with carytid you can hit 2 targets on t6. If that is two bestowed creatures we are talking a 4 for 1. Silence is the best kill spell in the set shy of downfall. Also, consign to dust offers up 2 for 1's and in this block format i think it is absolutely nuts to have on your side. Eidolon as a chumper is fine when they have nut draws. Doomwake landing when a white deck has creatures with 3 or 4 toughness is perfectly fine because he is a 4/6 can safely block often. He is about as early as you can expect a threat of his size with an ETB effect. I can see him being a bomb in that match-up. I will start testing next week when I get the cards for the deck on MTGO.
I think it is an interesting build you have there. I also think that Athreo's has a strong position in it and even his buddy odunos river trawler for extra synergy. Problem is heroic and naya. Naya will outclass this build therefore the full set of downfall is warranted imo. Same thing with heroic. You board state will be outclassed unfortunately. Cards like coinsmith and guardian do best over the course of a longer game. If heroic plays unanswered this will never occur and naya can play must answer cards gaining ALOT of momentum from t3 on. Test it out against those matchups and report back will the results! Good luck.
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4 Thoughtseize
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
4 Grim Guardian
1 Whip of Erebos
2 Aegis of the Gods
4 Banishing Light
3 Eidolon of Rhetoric
4 Nyx-Fleece Ram
4 Oppressive Rays
3 Spirit of the Labyrinth
4 Underworld Coinsmith
2 Athreos, God of Passage
4 Mana Confluence
4 Temple of Silence
6 Plains
6 Swamp
2 Dictate of Erebos
2 Heliod
4 Brain Maggot
I think constellation will absolutely be a viable archetype in block. That being said i believe the strongs constellation cards to be ediolon of blossoms and doomwake giant. The inherent and repetitive ETB effects will gain alot of value when coupled with the likes of courser. Also, BG shell can support pharika well which give you further abuse o constellation triggers as well as having a good chance of being a creature with the build i have in mind.
What I would give for ivory mask over aegis of the gods...
4 Thoughtseize
4 Kruphix's Insight
//Enchantments: 30
4 Font of Fertility
4 Brain Maggot
4 Baleful Eidolon
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Nyx Weaver
4 Eidolon of Blossoms
4 Doomwake Giant
2 Whip of Erebos
4 Agent of Erebos
2 Erebos, God of the Dead
2 Dictate of Erebos
3 Drown in Sorrow
4 Fate Unraveler
The idea here is you spend the early turns ramping (with Font and Courser) or discarding (with Thoughtseize and Brain Maggot). Baleful Eidolon and Courser play defense where needed. 20 enchantments at 3cc or less. This means you can start abusing Eidolon and Insight as draw engines. Nyx Weaver and Whip (and Whip into Nyx Weaver) let you recur things. As you stabilize, you set up turns where you can drop multiple enchantments in a turn to trigger the hell out of constellation for Doomwake Giant and Eidolon.
Still might need more finishing power. The enchantment creatures aren't that big in combat. Maybe more Gods maindeck?
As for SB, Agent is vs Junk Reanimator, Drown in Sorrow vs random aggro, Fate Unraveler vs Esper Control, Erebos vs random lifegain or if you need a God for more beatdown. Dictate comes in if you need more mid-game board control (e.g. vs midrange or reanimator)
Other cards I considered include:
Gnarled Scarhide -- 1cc enchantment, which is awesome, but it forces you into a more aggro role when there are not many good aggro tools to back it up
Font of Return -- maybe as a 2-of. this has the potential to generate some serious card advantage by triggering constellation itself for only 2cc and then giving you 3 creatures back/multiple constellation triggers. seems decent but couldn't find room; the other cards seem better.
Grim Guardian -- this would really abuse the repeating constellation and help you have reach to win. I favored Courser for the ramp and helping you stabilize against aggro (lifegain, plus the extra power is really good against bears), but Guardian could possibly take Courser's spot. was a toss up for me. in combination with Erebos denying them lifegain and slow drain from Fate Unraveler, this could be pretty brutal.
Pharika, God of Affliction -- bad god seems bad. I don't want to exile my own creatures, I want to recur them. I don't want to give opponent deathtouch creatures. also, 3cc slot has a lot of competition. but it could be a nice cheap body. don't know if I like this more than Erebos or Nylea.
Boon Satyr -- great card. probably more aggro than my list, but might fit well in a list with Gnarled Scarhide and more beatdown (Eidolons?). too much competition at 3cc slot.
Herald of Torment -- awesome card. probably too aggro again, and competes with 3cc slot.
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Doomwake Giant
4 Eidolon of Blossoms
1 Heliod, God of the Sun
1 Pharika, God of Affliction
4 Underworld Coinsmith
4 Extinguish All Hope
4 Thoughtseize
5 Forest
3 Mana Confluence
2 Plains
6 Swamp
4 Temple of Malady
4 Temple of Plenty
2 Temple of Silence
Fun times shall be had.
Check out my expected lands table at:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Airj6A6lYAz_dG05T2JETnVTak1xQ0tqOHNSdEJLWVE&hl=en_US#gid=0
3 mana confluence
4 temple of malady
2 temple of silence
2 temple of plenty
8 forest
5 swamp
4 sylvan carytid
4 courser of kruphix
4 boon satyr
4 eidolon of blossoms
3 polukranos, world eater
1 nylea, god of the hunt
4 doomwake giant
3 thoughtseize
4 hero's downfall
3 silence the believers
2 consign to dust
Strategy: Playin ramp with heavy threat density on the back of the best card drawing bodies in the set provides some of the best card draw this set is capable of while maintaining aggression. This coupled with late (but as early as t4) game constellation triggers to provide constant residual value by means of card draw and recurring infest effects will provide a stable board state and answers to many of the formats biggest threats.
1 drops: thoughtseize... Nuff said, should be 4
2 drops: Sylvan carytid- best blanking blocker around and ramps to heavier threats.
3 drops: 4 courser of kruphix- one of the best anti aggro bodies around with impeccable value attached in the form of card draw. A must have.
4 Boon satyr: Black has beeter enchantment creature threats but why ask for BB and GG on t3 when you really don't need to? flash also works as a great early game kill spell against aggro.
4 hero's downfall: of course
2 consign to dust: I am not worried about god's yet to ask my enchanment removal to be exile (maybe againt reanimator). The potential for a 2 for 1 at t6 (or 5) is something I very much agree with in the format.
4 drops: Eidolon of Blossoms- Get ready to see this card make waves in this format. Making the large majority of your creatures have ETB "draw a card" is insane value while he already replaces himself and sits at 2/2 (anything bigger would be OP). THe combination of this card and courser is going to give this deck so much steam it will be unbearable.
polukranos- because he is the best t3 play in the game (carytid)
Nylea-The green symbol action in this deck is great enough that she can definately become a creature but having all your dudes have trample after dropping doomwake giant seems amazing. You also need away to get through tokens and have a mana sink.
5 drops- Doomwake giant. Respect this guy he is a sleeper in this format. He will wreck you. Elspeth? Cool drops doomwake and attacks through with creatures. Force her to -3. It won't get your eidolons or your courser and having a boonsatyr in hand for bestow just makes her death easier (also putting satyr on a 4 toughness critter helps make sure you kill her if she -3's. You can really force Elspeth's hand here and have an out for either choice. The recurring constellation effects with eidolon and doomwake are going to be absurd value and doomwake will guarantee the fight is uneven.
Against aggro: You win. Simple as that lol. Carytid and courser are the best bodies in the format against aggro helping you draw outs and gain life while being bigger butts that most the opponents critters have power. If you curve out on doomwake they just in a crappy position. Eidolon requires a kill card else you will draw out easily (but she already replaced herself sickkkkk and is only 2/2. GO ahead downfall it). Doomwake sitting down is just going to put the hurt on fast especially if you're drawing cards. Flyers might get buy but we have the best kill cards in the format in downfall and even better, silence the beliebers.
Against reanimator: Reanimator will cease to exist as it's current build. And agent of erebos fits this decks strat so perfectly that no reanimator build would be good against it. Recurrent grave wipes.
Against control: Might be more difficult but we've yet to experience the full effect that drawing off bodies like eidolon and courser has. They require kill cards if resolved from control else we draw steam into a sideboarded mistcutter. But that means mistcutter, polukranos, and doomwake are going to stick around if resolved and the early guys took kill cards. If you curve out, I feel good about this matchup.
I am veryyyyy excited to play this deck and am very confident it has the answers to format leaders.
Elspeth: Well we MAY have already killed you esper because you play 12 taplands but just in case you think +1 ing will get you out, doomwake lands. Attack freely minions. And hell we got downfall as a backup. O and she's top target for thoughtseize.
Prog sphinx: who cares, he can't hand the threats with it and he gains no card adv off of it while courser and eidolon do. When facing down aggressive builds sphinx is not as good if the threats are big enough or numerous enough.
Thoughtseize: nothin u can do bout that.
Whip: consign to dust
Herald: any of my non seize spells kills it.
Agent: Harder one, but hopefully i draw a kill spell.
Hero of iroa going nuts: It's heroic what you gon do bout it? Hopefully draw a thoughtseize or silence the beliebers (this card will wreck heroic)
Im done. I think this deck is going to have a good time or at least a very similar variant of it. If you have any questions or arguments I'd love to hear them.
Here's a brew I came up with today, in the enchantress vein... partially inspired by Conley Woods most recent article. Mana base probably needs work, I just populated it with lands. Not sure if it needs more scry or confluence, but the mana req's don't seem too bad.
9 Swamp
9 Forest
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Nyx Weaver
4 Nighthowler
4 Nemesis of Mortals
4 Eidolon of Blossoms
2 Pharika, God of Affliction
2 Herald of Torment
2 Hero's Downfall
1 Silence the Believers
2 Strength from the Fallen
1 Whip of Erebos
Now the board would likely have Doomwake/Courser, which could move to the main deck over Nemesis of Mortals should they be better against the field. That may actually just be the correct move, but as it stands there are 18 enchantments to trigger constellation, plus anything you turn into a snake with Pharika. It's dredge and enchantress, in one. Brain Maggot and Nylea could both fit in this deck as well, as giving your giant dudes trample is pretty good.
Just two cents worth of thoughts I had.
You are htting strongly close to how the new reanimator will form out to be in my opinion. It will need to be filled with more threats and lower cost threats that can run well after a agent of erebos is dropped.
Well think about it a bit. What is prone to being bile blighted in this deck? Eidolon of blossoms and boon satyr. Boon satyr can be bestowed so it makes him ok but not great against blight as sometimes you want to curve out with im as a threat. THe thing about Eidolon is that she has already replaced herself when they blight. You don't mind her being blighted as it has cost them a card and you have not been cost a card in terms of card adv. This deck is resilient to drown as only eidolon and boon satyr go down to it but you can play around that with boon satyr (or side it out). Nothing else dies to it so I think it would be a very poor choice against this deck. I have not even included a SB here but you can imagine it might be something like bile blight for satyr or hell drown in sorrow (again we lose no card adv playing eidolon and would likely hold eidolon until after sorrow is played). And the deck doesn't rely on eidolon it plays like a midrange build. It relies on threats and board presence. Again, eidolon is not a wincon but an enabler. Courser can make this go as much as eidolon. Eidolon can just make it go nuts.
I will post when I start testing on mtgo. But to you points (i accidentally deleted this so this is the truncated version:
1. Bile blight has 2 targets in the deck list i wrote (i dont play herald it is too much on mana to ask for a BB and GG on T3). It's targets are a plain played boon satyr and a eidolon of blossoms. Satyr might never be a target and eidolon replaced itself so whatever (more on this later).
2. Sweepers that currently are seeing play are only drown and MBA isn'g playing it so the only deck that would play a sweeper is control. Same as blight, suboptimal targets. If he gets two eidolons I already have drawn 3 cards of them and it's and again satyr will likely never be a target in that one ( and may be sided out). Also the only deck that mainboards 4 bile blight is control.
3. Eidolon replaces itself with what? Card draw baby! I'll take a land even. Against aggro that means they spent a turn shooting a 2/2 that replaced itself (awesome) and against esper that means One less kill spell for the next threat. Card adv on a body is too good to ignore and if he goes off more than once his value has already made me more than fine with him being targeted (couple that with courser draws). Saito recently saw the same potential and created a deck around many of the same components as mine. http://imgur.com/a/qJpMH#12
4. Heavier win cons- Meh polukranos and doomwake are fine imo. Polu is a must answer and doomwake gains alot of value against certain decks and is a a big body. Although i do love reaper (play her in my Ana walkers deck) I opted for more enchantment creatures for value plays. This deck could also always splash blue for kiora and ashiok like the Ana walkers list also.
These are fair worries and good points. We cannot really tell how it will play out. I have found from my own BGU lists online that carytid to courser to killspells can be a total showstopper for aggro if they cannot take out courser. The issue i have had with bug is that my mana sucks so i am worrisome to block with carytid and courser in early game due to boon and burn spells. This deck won't have that problem as much. The doomwake situation is a tough one to tell but think about it. Doomwake is on the field first and then Elspeth comes down how does the elspeth player tick her? If they +1 they risk getting them board wiped the next turn and then having whatever is on board swinging at them. So, in my opinion, Elspeth has to tick down to kill doomwake (hell you could flash a satyr in EOT and board wipe early). This will miss eidolon and courses which can attack. Follow that with an instant speed boon satyr on wahtever doesn't get blocked and Elspeth has earned them a 1 for 1 and wasted one of your attacks. Let's look at the other situation. Elspeth is on board and ticked up. You play doomwake and swing through. If elspeth survives she will likely not have enough loyalty to tick down and kill doomwake so they will tick her up.... and you just drop another enchantment creature wiping them again. Doomwake is good against Elspeth. What I'm not taking into account are kill spells which can very interrupt the above sequence of events. That's why I like the addition of 2 whips by robx13. I had considered it but I wanted to be beat down but pull doomwake back might be worth having the whip.
I think the mono white launch the everything deck looks might be solid. Were you playing with sideboards? Because against a very aggressive, go "wide" strategy that such a white deck would employ i can see this deck losing game 1 (not every time by any means) if spear lands unanswered or phalanx leader goes off. Perhaps try my list for a bit? I did not include bile blight or herald because it competes with t2 carytid/ t3 courser and i have lost enough to that kind of mana base in the past to not push it. Also, I am not surprised your build would have difficulty with heroic going off as the deck only has 1 silence the beliebers and 1 anti enchantment card. Silence should be a three of in my opinion because it blows out heroic decks and with carytid you can hit 2 targets on t6. If that is two bestowed creatures we are talking a 4 for 1. Silence is the best kill spell in the set shy of downfall. Also, consign to dust offers up 2 for 1's and in this block format i think it is absolutely nuts to have on your side. Eidolon as a chumper is fine when they have nut draws. Doomwake landing when a white deck has creatures with 3 or 4 toughness is perfectly fine because he is a 4/6 can safely block often. He is about as early as you can expect a threat of his size with an ETB effect. I can see him being a bomb in that match-up. I will start testing next week when I get the cards for the deck on MTGO.
4 Brain Maggot
4 Underworld Coinsmith
3 Nyx-Fleece Ram
4 Grim Guardian
4 Banishing Light
3 Fate Unraveler
2 Doomwake Giant
//Gods: 5
2 Erebos, God of the Dead
2 Athreos, God of Passage
1 Heliod, God of the Sun
4 Thoughtseize
3 Hero's Downfall
//Lands: 24
4 Temple of Silence
3 Mana Confluence
10 Swamp
7 Plains
4 Agent of Erebos
3 Aegis of the Gods
3 Oppressive Rays
2 Deicide
1 Nyx-Fleece Ram
2 Silence the Believers
4 Gnarled Scarhide
4 Spiteful Returned
4 Underworld Coinsmith
2 Brain Maggot
4 Grim Guardian
4 Master of the Feast
4 Herald of Torment
4 Thoughtseize
2 Hero's Downfall
3 Banishing Light
3 Spear of Heliod
//Lands: 22
4 Mana Confluence
4 Temple of Silence
8 Swamp
6 Plains
3 Agent of Erebos
2 Brain Maggot
2 Dark Betrayal
3 Fate Unraveler
2 Deicide
1 Banishing Light
2 Hero's Downfall