I was worried about mana, but I think the 10 2-mana scry spells will really help out. I might want 1-2 traveler's amulet if it isn't enough. I considered Ember beast and hammer of purphoros for threats, but I think the main deck ones are sufficient. The god helps prognostic sphinx and spellheart chimera attack, and the scry is important too. The deck doesn't have a lot of card advantage, so the card quality it can squeeze out of scry is important.
Some facts of magic:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
All kidding aside; Ask yourself how you're going to deal with:
-Purphoros
-Hammer of Purphoros
-Stormbreath Dragon
-Arbor Colossus
-Mistcutter Hydra
-Reverent Hunter
-Elsepth
-Heliod
-Spear of Heliod
-Master of Waves
-Prognostic Sphinx
-Whip of Erebos
-Underworld Cerberus
IMO there is a very common theme here, while you'll end up seeing some of these more then others they're all falling into a couple of key categories. Big massive creatures that you're going to struggle to remove and hard to remove non-creature permanents that as it stands now, you have no consistent answer to.
Whats the answer to the problem? I'm not sure. More testing no doubt, but I'd start with Curse of the Swine. Its going to be you're catch all to everything on that list save a couple-So that might be a start.
Problem is everyone is going to be doing more powerful things then you are. IMO
Lmao. What was I thinking? I'm going to edit that list a bit...
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Some facts of magic:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
Big massive creatures that you're going to struggle to remove and hard to remove non-creature permanents that as it stands now, you have no consistent answer to.
Problem is everyone is going to be doing more powerful things then you are.
Yeah, you know what, you're right about that. There's no way to really control everything in this format. I'm just going to have to do more powerful things. I'm going to take another shot at this...
How about Master of Waves and Spellheart Chimera with haste? Only testing will tell whether Ember beast will be better in the Master of Waves slot. Drawing two masters is just ridiculous. I think this has enough early game burn to beat aggro decks and diverse enough late game threats to power through control decks. Voyage's End, griptide, and dissolve buy a lot of tempo. Hammer of purphoros seems tough to beat.
Some facts of magic:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
Master of Waves has no place in a Theros block deck IMO. If you curve into him you're looking at a Devotion of 2?
I dunno, just seems like your pushing blue for a counter spell and some bounce. There are just so many better things to be doing. Do you really want to be paying 2 for an Unsummon? No, you dont.
If your making a deck with U in it, it just has to have some number of these to compete with what the other colors are going to be doing.
Finally Hammer of Purphoros is out of place. It should be in an aggro deck, if your playing it just for Chimera/Master of Waves haste then its just plain bad. You should be playing it for everything you play to have haste.
But you're updated list is Midrange/Control, do you really want to be saccing lands at any point in the game? No, you dont.
Your first list was better then the second. First list I'd still consider going upto 4 Dragons, down two Sphinx's-Dropping Omenspeakers and looking at Curse of Swine or two.
Im kinda rambling here, but I just love talking about deck building
I agree about Master of Waves, and I think playing the full four dragons is probably too many. But I like Hammer of Purphoros on this kind of deck - it just gives you a better late game, letting you turn lands into threats and letting you drop a very large chimera with haste. To me this is better in a sort of aggro-control/counterburn direction. You definitely want some number of Steam Augury though; that's the whole reason to be playing this deck.
Your answer to people doing powerful things in this format is to 1. Laugh at their faces as you bounce it and attack with a 7/3 in the air; 2. Counter it.
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On average, Magic players are worse at new card evaluation than almost every other skill, except perhaps sideboarding.
Master of Waves has no place in a Theros block deck IMO. If you curve into him you're looking at a Devotion of 2?
I dunno, just seems like your pushing blue for a counter spell and some bounce. There are just so many better things to be doing. Do you really want to be paying 2 for an Unsummon? No, you dont.
If your making a deck with U in it, it just has to have some number of these to compete with what the other colors are going to be doing.
Finally Hammer of Purphoros is out of place. It should be in an aggro deck, if your playing it just for Chimera/Master of Waves haste then its just plain bad. You should be playing it for everything you play to have haste.
But you're updated list is Midrange/Control, do you really want to be saccing lands at any point in the game? No, you dont.
Your first list was better then the second. First list I'd still consider going upto 4 Dragons, down two Sphinx's-Dropping Omenspeakers and looking at Curse of Swine or two.
Im kinda rambling here, but I just love talking about deck building
I disagree with a lot of things here. I should have clarified, the second deck is more of a tempo deck than either midrange or control. In that context, I do want to be playing 2 mana for an unsummon (and scry!), and the three cards you listed (curse, sphinx, and swan song) are either too slow or do the opposite of what I want to do. I agree that in a control deck they make a lot more sense, and they would be good additions to the first deck.
Maybe Master of Waves would be better as Vaporkin? Or with vaporkin? What would you recommend cutting for Steam Augury? I'm not convinced it has a place in a tempo deck, but I'll test it out.
Some facts of magic:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
Steam Augury is good as a curve-topper. I'd probably run -2 Hammer, -2 Dragon, +1 Augury, +1 Strike, +2 Anger of the Gods to start with and adjust as the meta goes.
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On average, Magic players are worse at new card evaluation than almost every other skill, except perhaps sideboarding.
Your answer to people doing powerful things in this format is to 1. Laugh at their faces as you bounce it and attack with a 7/3 in the air; 2. Counter it.
True enough. I think adding Anger of the Gods in there might help a lot, but I looked at this kind of deck myself and thought it'll probably only come into its own when we have UR temples and a bigger card pool to work with.
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On average, Magic players are worse at new card evaluation than almost every other skill, except perhaps sideboarding.
Steam Augury is good as a curve-topper. I'd probably run -2 Hammer, -2 Dragon, +1 Augury, +1 Strike, +2 Anger of the Gods to start with and adjust as the meta goes.
Running anger in that list seems very strange - it kills 2/3 of the decks own creatures.
Some facts of magic:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
Isn't Curse of the Swine screaming to be in this deck somewhere? With Voyage's End and Griptide seems like an auto include to me. *shrug*
I don't want to spend two cards to deal with a threat when I can just use one. What would I want to turn into a boar and then bounce that I would't want to just bounce?
Some facts of magic:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
I don't want to spend two cards to deal with a threat when I can just use one. What would I want to turn into a boar and then bounce that I would't want to just bounce?
If you're playing a red control deck, aren't you supposed to main deck anger of the gods? That means you can't have any 3 toughness creatures in your deck.
So I would opt to never play omen speaker and the chimera.
I've been trying a version with ember swallower and burnished hart. It's cute when it works, but it's not that consistent, since people will kill your burnished hart when you cast it on turns 3-5.
This deck does have a problem with creatures that have more than 3 toughness. It looks like you have to 2 for 1 yourself to do it. But if you hit 2 creatures with curse of swines and then follow up with anger of the gods, it's a 2 for 2. But maybe if you play enough steam auguries you can get away with that card disadvantage.
Vaporkin gets pumped by master of waves, in case anyone missed that.
Has anyone done some actual testing with a list like this? Seems to me that a ur tempo list could work against all of the GR ramp running around. I don't like master of waves though due to the low blue permanent count, and not sure hammer works here either - your main later game threat already has haste and it doesn't synergise with chimera. You do need more early game threats though to make a tempo plan happen, what about flamespeaker adept? It has nice synergy with all of the instants you want for chimera anyway, and could even make something like titan's strength an option. I also think this list really wants steam augury to have something else do with counterspell mana. sample list:
3 Steam Augury
3 Dissolve
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Voyage's End
3 Titan's Strength
13 island
11 mountain
idk, maybe has a chance? It really wants delver unfortunately, 3 mana is too much to pay for your scary flyer. this is going to roll over to any lifegain too, but there's basically nothing ouside of black so that might not be terrible.
I've been messing around with a list just in the tournament practice rooms (haven't had any time to test at a daily). Been having some success with this list, and it's generally pretty powerful once you get a sphinx out there. It's almost impossible for any deck to deal with that card once you get it out.
Pretty rough right now, and I want to try out some Thassa's once I can get a hold of them, but I'm having some serious frustration with Mono Black (mainly with Gray Merchant). If he resolves, unless it's just himself and you have some good board position, he nearly takes this deck out of range to kill them. Is there any way to stop him or mitigate some of the life loss/gain without countering him? With the amount of hand disruption and board disruption, the only thing that can really survive are the sphinx's.
Anyone have any insight to this matchup? I could just be playing it entirely wrong or getting really unlucky, but I feel like they always have more Gray Merchants than I do counterspells.
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Anger of the Gods
4 Dissolve
2 Thassa, God of the Sea
4 Steam Augury
2 Spellheart Chimera
2 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Prognostic Sphinx
12 Island
I was worried about mana, but I think the 10 2-mana scry spells will really help out. I might want 1-2 traveler's amulet if it isn't enough. I considered Ember beast and hammer of purphoros for threats, but I think the main deck ones are sufficient. The god helps prognostic sphinx and spellheart chimera attack, and the scry is important too. The deck doesn't have a lot of card advantage, so the card quality it can squeeze out of scry is important.
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic
All kidding aside; Ask yourself how you're going to deal with:
-Purphoros
-Hammer of Purphoros
-Stormbreath Dragon
-Arbor Colossus
-Mistcutter Hydra
-Reverent Hunter
-Elsepth
-Heliod
-Spear of Heliod
-Master of Waves
-Prognostic Sphinx
-Whip of Erebos
-Underworld Cerberus
IMO there is a very common theme here, while you'll end up seeing some of these more then others they're all falling into a couple of key categories. Big massive creatures that you're going to struggle to remove and hard to remove non-creature permanents that as it stands now, you have no consistent answer to.
Whats the answer to the problem? I'm not sure. More testing no doubt, but I'd start with Curse of the Swine. Its going to be you're catch all to everything on that list save a couple-So that might be a start.
Problem is everyone is going to be doing more powerful things then you are. IMO
GL
Lmao. What was I thinking? I'm going to edit that list a bit...
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic
Yeah, you know what, you're right about that. There's no way to really control everything in this format. I'm just going to have to do more powerful things. I'm going to take another shot at this...
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Dissolve
4 Griptide
4 Spellheart Chimera
4 Master of Waves
4 Stormbreath Dragon
12 Island
How about Master of Waves and Spellheart Chimera with haste? Only testing will tell whether Ember beast will be better in the Master of Waves slot. Drawing two masters is just ridiculous. I think this has enough early game burn to beat aggro decks and diverse enough late game threats to power through control decks. Voyage's End, griptide, and dissolve buy a lot of tempo. Hammer of purphoros seems tough to beat.
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic
I dunno, just seems like your pushing blue for a counter spell and some bounce. There are just so many better things to be doing. Do you really want to be paying 2 for an Unsummon? No, you dont.
The most powerful things you can do in Theros Block while in Blue is Dissolve, Curse of the Swine, Swan Song and Prognostic Sphinx.
If your making a deck with U in it, it just has to have some number of these to compete with what the other colors are going to be doing.
Finally Hammer of Purphoros is out of place. It should be in an aggro deck, if your playing it just for Chimera/Master of Waves haste then its just plain bad. You should be playing it for everything you play to have haste.
But you're updated list is Midrange/Control, do you really want to be saccing lands at any point in the game? No, you dont.
Your first list was better then the second. First list I'd still consider going upto 4 Dragons, down two Sphinx's-Dropping Omenspeakers and looking at Curse of Swine or two.
Im kinda rambling here, but I just love talking about deck building
Your answer to people doing powerful things in this format is to 1. Laugh at their faces as you bounce it and attack with a 7/3 in the air; 2. Counter it.
I disagree with a lot of things here. I should have clarified, the second deck is more of a tempo deck than either midrange or control. In that context, I do want to be playing 2 mana for an unsummon (and scry!), and the three cards you listed (curse, sphinx, and swan song) are either too slow or do the opposite of what I want to do. I agree that in a control deck they make a lot more sense, and they would be good additions to the first deck.
Maybe Master of Waves would be better as Vaporkin? Or with vaporkin? What would you recommend cutting for Steam Augury? I'm not convinced it has a place in a tempo deck, but I'll test it out.
4 Magma Jet
3 Lightning Strike
4 Dissolve
3 Griptide
3 Steam Augury
4 Vaporkin
4 Spellheart Chimera
4 Stormbreath Dragon
12 Island
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic
With one of your four counters?
Running anger in that list seems very strange - it kills 2/3 of the decks own creatures.
Theros Myth Origins Part 1 WUBRG Part 2 GRBUW Born of the Gods
Beta Client Tutorial
Momir Basic Primer
Full article list
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike
4 Dissolve
3 Griptide
4 Vaporkin
4 Spellheart Chimera
2 Master of Waves
4 Stormbreath Dragon
12 Island
Vaporkin gets pumped by master of waves, in case anyone missed that.
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic
Isn't Curse of the Swine screaming to be in this deck somewhere? With Voyage's End and Griptide seems like an auto include to me. *shrug*
I don't want to spend two cards to deal with a threat when I can just use one. What would I want to turn into a boar and then bounce that I would't want to just bounce?
I can see playing it in a version with omenspeaker and Anger of the gods, but not in the last list I posted.
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic
I understand your point, but options is what I'm looking at. Swine sweeps the board if needed.
4x Dissolve
14x Island
4x Lightning Strike
4x Magma Jet
3x Master of Waves
9x Mountain
3x Omenspeaker
3x prognostic sphinx
4x spellheart chimera
2x Thassa, God of the sea
4x Vaporkin
4x Voyage's End
3x Anger of the gods
4x annul
4x curse of the swine
4x swan song
So I would opt to never play omen speaker and the chimera.
I've been trying a version with ember swallower and burnished hart. It's cute when it works, but it's not that consistent, since people will kill your burnished hart when you cast it on turns 3-5.
This deck does have a problem with creatures that have more than 3 toughness. It looks like you have to 2 for 1 yourself to do it. But if you hit 2 creatures with curse of swines and then follow up with anger of the gods, it's a 2 for 2. But maybe if you play enough steam auguries you can get away with that card disadvantage.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=380755
Has anyone done some actual testing with a list like this? Seems to me that a ur tempo list could work against all of the GR ramp running around. I don't like master of waves though due to the low blue permanent count, and not sure hammer works here either - your main later game threat already has haste and it doesn't synergise with chimera. You do need more early game threats though to make a tempo plan happen, what about flamespeaker adept? It has nice synergy with all of the instants you want for chimera anyway, and could even make something like titan's strength an option. I also think this list really wants steam augury to have something else do with counterspell mana. sample list:
idk, maybe has a chance? It really wants delver unfortunately, 3 mana is too much to pay for your scary flyer. this is going to roll over to any lifegain too, but there's basically nothing ouside of black so that might not be terrible.
Anyways, here's the list:
4 Ember Swallower
3 Omenspeaker
4 Prognostic Sphinx
1 Shipbreaker Kraken
4 Spellheart Chimera
Spells
2 Curse of the Swine
4 Dissolve
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
1 Sea God's Revenge
3 Voyage's End
1 Bident of Thassa
Lands
12 Island
9 Mountain
4 Temple of Mystery
2 Annul
1 Bident of Thassa
1 Curse of the Swine
2 Gainsay
1 Griptide
1 Omenspeaker
3 Peak Eruption
2 Portent of Betrayal
1 Wild Celebrants
1 Voyage's End
Pretty rough right now, and I want to try out some Thassa's once I can get a hold of them, but I'm having some serious frustration with Mono Black (mainly with Gray Merchant). If he resolves, unless it's just himself and you have some good board position, he nearly takes this deck out of range to kill them. Is there any way to stop him or mitigate some of the life loss/gain without countering him? With the amount of hand disruption and board disruption, the only thing that can really survive are the sphinx's.
Anyone have any insight to this matchup? I could just be playing it entirely wrong or getting really unlucky, but I feel like they always have more Gray Merchants than I do counterspells.
BU Lazav, Dimir Mastermind
BR Tor Wauki
BG Savra, Queen of the Golgari
BWURG Karona, False God
Standard
Currently nothing.
Modern
B 8-Rack
Casual
BW Pestilence
B Multiplayer Discard
Block Constructed
BWG Abzan Midrange