I've been working on this for about a week and I just 3-1ed a daily with this list. I figured that it's going to be posted on mtgonline.com anyway, so I'll just make a post about it.
Obviously the idea of this deck is to stall the game long enough to play an Aetherling and win.
A little about the more odd cards.
Treasured Find was originally put in here to get back an Aetherling or another important card form the graveyard after Deadbridge Chant mills it. But it's just awsome for recuring spells, it's similar to a Snapcaster Mage, just no body.
I think that Deadbridge Chant is one of the most powerful cards from DGM. It's way over performed. In the control mirror, it ends up creating enough card advantage to rival Sphinx's Revelation. It's even better than revelation in some cases, since Deathrite Shaman can exile the lands. It's ability to put creatures directly into play is not irrelevant either as it can put an Aetherling in play (an uncounterable Aetherling) on a turn where you might not have been able to cast him with dispel backup and 2-3 open blue sources.
I board it out against aggro, I'm not completely sure if I should be taking the both out or not though. It is slow, but recycling removal spells is extremely powerful. I look at this card as a worse Tamiyo ultimate. It's a very very powerful card, and really overlooked right now.
Gaze of Granite is here as a sweeper. But it's also a sweeper that you want in a control matchup. This card can kill Sin Collectors, Blood Barons, and Precinct Captians, as well as Detention Spheres, Assemble the Legions, Keyrunes, and Planeswalkers. It's also worth noting that aetherling, deadbridge chant, and vraska are all slightly more expensive than the problem creatures from most control decks, so gaze is a planar cleansing that is mostly one-sided.
Woodlot Crawler is a BEAST against golgari and selesnya decks. If he resolves it becomes extremely difficult for those decks to win, simply because they can't kill it and the only things those decks have that can go through him are Lotleth Troll, wurms and Rakdos Cackler. He can also kill the vast majority of the golgari creatures and live through it.
Saruli Gatekeepers is another amazing card against aggro. I didn't think about adding this in until the protour started, and i absolutely love them! Not only does it gain you 7 life, which is very relevant in creature matchups, but they are bigger than most of the creatures from aggro decks, so it's at least a blocker that can be hard to kill, and she can kill alot of their creatures without dieing. I'd love to fit 4 of these in the sideboard (wouldn't mind maindecking either) but I can't find the space, maybe remove the pithing needle? I just don't want to lose against maze's end if I happen to come across it in a daily.
Pithing Needle if for maze's end. I just figured that since the protour featured a maze's end deck, that alot of people might try it, but I haven't faced one yet. And Psychic Spiral is to get around slaughter games, although I would prefer a faster wincon. I can also win through Deathrite Shaman (happened three times now) and Vraska's Ultimate (happened once), so it might be unnecesary, but I can mill alot of cards with the deadbridge chant and would probably be able to deck people with the spiral.
Another thing I'm not completely sure about is the mana base, specifically the gates. I feel like I need another simic guildgate, But the golgari gates are very important for the early game so I can have green to cast a vine and black to cast removal. I was thinking about taking out a forest, but I'm not too happy about that. Maybe the Izzet guildgate should be a Gruul one?
So about the matchups with other decks. This is very strong against all creature decks besides mono red (coin toss, I have only played 2 matches i won one and they won one) and the boros aggro deck that was in the top 4 of the protour (only played it once and lost horribly). I feel like having two more saruli gatekeepers in this match would vastly improve it. But this is very good against golgari because of the edicts, putrefy, and gaze as well as the selesnya decks because of instant speed removal (to kill worms, and stop populate) and of course gaze works overtime in that matchup.
This is also quite good against control. I've played 3 matches against esper and one against bant, and won them all. The main reasons I think I won are because of gaze taking out alot of non-creature, non-land permanents, edicts, to take care of blood barons and kill aetherlings (if my opponent doesn't have 3 blue sources open when they cast it), and Deadbridge Chant providing very very good card advantage.
If MTG is a part of your life, the formats are like relationships:
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
Well I just noticed yesterday that most of the control decks that end up in the money only run 1-2 counterspells main, and 4 in the board (not counting dispel) max alot of them run less. So there is very little counter magic running around right now. One of the esper decks that 4-0ed in saturday's daily didn't run any maindeck counters and I believe it was just 3 counters and 3 dispels in the board. So I don't really have to fight alot of counter wars.
I think you are underestimating deadbridge chant. Underworld connections whas already very good against control, but deadbridge doesn't cost any life, and you can sculpt your draw with deathrite shaman (it also provides fuel for shaman). Treasured Find is also basically a tutor for the perfect card you need if you play deadbridge. I also only run 24 lands when they run 27, so I draw more action than they do. Not to mention I can kill basically anything they play almost as soon as they do so. This makes it very hard for them to close the game after drawing 5+ cards from a revelation.
What do you think would help that match? I thought that underworld connections was just uneeded in that matchup, but do you think I should try it? Honestly I haven't had any issues against control in games where i get early access to green and black, but I'm all for cementing that match up.
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If MTG is a part of your life, the formats are like relationships:
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
I will admit that vraska isn't that powerful. I mainly have her as a form of repetitive removal against aggro, and actually end up boarding her out against esper (since i need the edicts for blood baron and instant removal for obzedat). I think i will try taking her out. I do like the idea of a fourth jace too.
Gaze of granite can kill anything a control player has that isn't a creature, so rift doesn't seem needed. And I think that dimir charm is a pretty bad card, it can't kill alot of creautres, there aren't alot of sorceries being played, and the last ability is nice but I don't think it's worth it.
Why do you like those?
I was thinking maybe a jace and a maindeck saruli gatekeepers over vraska. Another Treasured Find sounds pretty good too.
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If MTG is a part of your life, the formats are like relationships:
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
those 2 cards are just cheap cards you can play, dimir charm is pretty bad
lots of people at the PT had cyclonic rift, even main deck, it's mostly for GW
That was probably becuase they are esper decks and don't have access to abrupt decay or putrefy.
I'm just not sure that bounce is really that great on it's own (azorious charm is a completely different story). It is fantastic when it's combined with something like far/away though.
I think i'm going to try out a maindeck saruli gatekeepers and a jace.
I'll probably also take out the pithing needle in the sideboard (psychic spiral could kill maze's end by milling gates), replacing it with another gatekeeper (or woodlot crawler, we'll see).
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If MTG is a part of your life, the formats are like relationships:
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
Gaze of granite can kill anything a control player has that isn't a creature, so rift doesn't seem needed. And I think that dimir charm is a pretty bad card, it can't kill alot of creautres, there aren't alot of sorceries being played, and the last ability is nice but I don't think it's worth it.
Why do you like those?
i'm not sure what happened last time you tried to resolve a 7+ mana sorcery against control, but I don't think it's realistic to think that it'll ever happen. Cyclonic rift is a great way to stop jace from ulting or just removing it so you can play and defend your own when you have enough mana.
So I played a little bit with deadbridge chant. And it's pretty obvious, but that's a high variance card. I think you really want more creatures and cards that interact with the graveyard to make the most of it. Are there more cards you can play other than Deathrite and treasured find?. Plus deathrite is a nobo with gaze of granite.
I was playing against a guy in the practice room that was playing domri in the 4 color chat deck. But I think his spell count was probably too high.
i'm not sure what happened last time you tried to resolve a 7+ mana sorcery against control, but I don't think it's realistic to think that it'll ever happen. Cyclonic rift is a great way to stop jace from ulting or just removing it so you can play and defend your own when you have enough mana.
He's probably right, his deck has enough removal that he doesn't need to bounce tokens.
Esper isn't running that many counters main, so a 7 mana spell could resolve. But spending 7 mana to kill a jace that -2'd is pretty bad value.
But cyclonic rift is probably better than vraska though.
well you aren't just killing a jace either, you're killing their detention sphere, and sin collectors too. I've killed several blood barons with gaze before.
There's an astonishing lack of counters right now. I guess it's because most of the field is some sort of aggro deck.
Are there more cards you can play other than Deathrite and treasured find?. Plus deathrite is a nobo with gaze of granite.
Sure deathrite dies to gaze, but so does woodlot crawler and alot of the time saruli gatekeepers and jace will die too. That's why you should hold onto deathrite to help you stabilize after a big gaze, sometimes you do have to play it before hand though.
It's similar to how esper decks will wrath with a precinct captain or a lyev skyknight out, sometimes you just get overwhelmed and you have to wipe. doesn't mean you shouldn't play those creatures or your wrath.
I don't think there are any other cards in these colors that interact with the graveyard (besides scavenge) but the main thing is that it's extra card draw, and the chance to recur kill spells, jace's, aetherlings, and counters. And because you are recuring these important spells rather than just drawing them and using it once makes this a very powerful engine. It's very good with deathrite out.
Maybe I need a third deathrite? He's very good most of the time.
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If MTG is a part of your life, the formats are like relationships:
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
I've found that Deadbridge Chant to be fantastic, especially when the deck is heavy with creatures. Combined with scavenge is also really nice. Whether that's attached to Goliaths or off of Varolz, it allows you to thin out the yard while also filtering. Toss in Deathrites to remove lands (or spells you don't want to see again) and it's amazingly powerful.
I've been very unimpressed with Gaze of Granite, too. It's wickedly expensive for a sweeper, costing more than Supreme Verdict to kill (usually) less things. It's definitely not Pernicious Deeds, which was admittedly awesome. There's just not a great black sweeper right now, since Mutilate and even Barter in Blood are Standard-only. I'd kill for a Damnation reprint. Far//Away is the closest we've got.
The deck is very good. Like, astonishingly good. I am really surprised no one at the pro tour discovered this deck. I guess the mana was too shaky to their taste.
Thought Scour is terrible in BV. How many flashback spells are being run? Say roughly 15. This gives you a roughly 38% chance of milling one flashback spell. And even if you do, you paid one mana to cantrip and dump an overcosted spell. Alchemy, Geistflame, Devil's play, etc. all cost much more to flash back than your average card, so you're not getting full value out of it.
You'd much rather play Ponder. At least that generates a tangible advantage.
I'm not totally sold on plasm capture. What if you don't have anything to sink your mana into the following turn? Plus it's not a garunteed turn 4 play.
I did play against someone using like 4 captures main, and he did things like cast an angel for one mana, but what if you don't have that? And I still beat him.
I'm also not too sure about urban evolution. It is nice card draw though.
I'd like to see your list, if you don't mind posting it.
I think the reason why nobody played BUG was because of sphinx's revelation.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If MTG is a part of your life, the formats are like relationships:
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
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Here's the list:
4 - Overgrown Tomb
4 - Watery Grave
4 - Breeding Pool
1 - Dimir Guildgate
3 - Golgari Guildgate
1 - Simic Guildgate
1 - Izzet Guildgate
2 - Island
2 - Swamp
2 - Forest
Creatures: 9
2 - Deathrite Shaman
4 - Gatecreeper Vine
3 - Aetherling
1 - Treasured Find
4 - Abrupt Decay
2 - Devour Flesh
4 - Far/Away
1 - Psychic Strike
4 - Putrefy
3 - Jace, Architect of Thought
2 - Vraska, The Unseen
2 - Deadbridge Chant
3 - Gaze of Granite
1 - Syncopate
3 - Dispel
1 - Pithing Needle
2 - Woodlot Crawler
2 - Psychic Strike
3 - Slaughter Games
2 - Saruli Gatekeepers
1 - Psychic Spiral
1 - Gaze of Granite
Obviously the idea of this deck is to stall the game long enough to play an Aetherling and win.
A little about the more odd cards.
Treasured Find was originally put in here to get back an Aetherling or another important card form the graveyard after Deadbridge Chant mills it. But it's just awsome for recuring spells, it's similar to a Snapcaster Mage, just no body.
I think that Deadbridge Chant is one of the most powerful cards from DGM. It's way over performed. In the control mirror, it ends up creating enough card advantage to rival Sphinx's Revelation. It's even better than revelation in some cases, since Deathrite Shaman can exile the lands. It's ability to put creatures directly into play is not irrelevant either as it can put an Aetherling in play (an uncounterable Aetherling) on a turn where you might not have been able to cast him with dispel backup and 2-3 open blue sources.
I board it out against aggro, I'm not completely sure if I should be taking the both out or not though. It is slow, but recycling removal spells is extremely powerful. I look at this card as a worse Tamiyo ultimate. It's a very very powerful card, and really overlooked right now.
Gaze of Granite is here as a sweeper. But it's also a sweeper that you want in a control matchup. This card can kill Sin Collectors, Blood Barons, and Precinct Captians, as well as Detention Spheres, Assemble the Legions, Keyrunes, and Planeswalkers. It's also worth noting that aetherling, deadbridge chant, and vraska are all slightly more expensive than the problem creatures from most control decks, so gaze is a planar cleansing that is mostly one-sided.
Woodlot Crawler is a BEAST against golgari and selesnya decks. If he resolves it becomes extremely difficult for those decks to win, simply because they can't kill it and the only things those decks have that can go through him are Lotleth Troll, wurms and Rakdos Cackler. He can also kill the vast majority of the golgari creatures and live through it.
Saruli Gatekeepers is another amazing card against aggro. I didn't think about adding this in until the protour started, and i absolutely love them! Not only does it gain you 7 life, which is very relevant in creature matchups, but they are bigger than most of the creatures from aggro decks, so it's at least a blocker that can be hard to kill, and she can kill alot of their creatures without dieing. I'd love to fit 4 of these in the sideboard (wouldn't mind maindecking either) but I can't find the space, maybe remove the pithing needle? I just don't want to lose against maze's end if I happen to come across it in a daily.
Pithing Needle if for maze's end. I just figured that since the protour featured a maze's end deck, that alot of people might try it, but I haven't faced one yet. And Psychic Spiral is to get around slaughter games, although I would prefer a faster wincon. I can also win through Deathrite Shaman (happened three times now) and Vraska's Ultimate (happened once), so it might be unnecesary, but I can mill alot of cards with the deadbridge chant and would probably be able to deck people with the spiral.
Another thing I'm not completely sure about is the mana base, specifically the gates. I feel like I need another simic guildgate, But the golgari gates are very important for the early game so I can have green to cast a vine and black to cast removal. I was thinking about taking out a forest, but I'm not too happy about that. Maybe the Izzet guildgate should be a Gruul one?
So about the matchups with other decks. This is very strong against all creature decks besides mono red (coin toss, I have only played 2 matches i won one and they won one) and the boros aggro deck that was in the top 4 of the protour (only played it once and lost horribly). I feel like having two more saruli gatekeepers in this match would vastly improve it. But this is very good against golgari because of the edicts, putrefy, and gaze as well as the selesnya decks because of instant speed removal (to kill worms, and stop populate) and of course gaze works overtime in that matchup.
This is also quite good against control. I've played 3 matches against esper and one against bant, and won them all. The main reasons I think I won are because of gaze taking out alot of non-creature, non-land permanents, edicts, to take care of blood barons and kill aetherlings (if my opponent doesn't have 3 blue sources open when they cast it), and Deadbridge Chant providing very very good card advantage.
So what do you guys think?
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
I think you are underestimating deadbridge chant. Underworld connections whas already very good against control, but deadbridge doesn't cost any life, and you can sculpt your draw with deathrite shaman (it also provides fuel for shaman). Treasured Find is also basically a tutor for the perfect card you need if you play deadbridge. I also only run 24 lands when they run 27, so I draw more action than they do. Not to mention I can kill basically anything they play almost as soon as they do so. This makes it very hard for them to close the game after drawing 5+ cards from a revelation.
What do you think would help that match? I thought that underworld connections was just uneeded in that matchup, but do you think I should try it? Honestly I haven't had any issues against control in games where i get early access to green and black, but I'm all for cementing that match up.
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
+1 jace
+1 cyclonic rift/dimir charm
I will admit that vraska isn't that powerful. I mainly have her as a form of repetitive removal against aggro, and actually end up boarding her out against esper (since i need the edicts for blood baron and instant removal for obzedat). I think i will try taking her out. I do like the idea of a fourth jace too.
Gaze of granite can kill anything a control player has that isn't a creature, so rift doesn't seem needed. And I think that dimir charm is a pretty bad card, it can't kill alot of creautres, there aren't alot of sorceries being played, and the last ability is nice but I don't think it's worth it.
Why do you like those?
I was thinking maybe a jace and a maindeck saruli gatekeepers over vraska. Another Treasured Find sounds pretty good too.
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
lots of people at the PT had cyclonic rift, even main deck, it's mostly for GW
That was probably becuase they are esper decks and don't have access to abrupt decay or putrefy.
I'm just not sure that bounce is really that great on it's own (azorious charm is a completely different story). It is fantastic when it's combined with something like far/away though.
I think i'm going to try out a maindeck saruli gatekeepers and a jace.
I'll probably also take out the pithing needle in the sideboard (psychic spiral could kill maze's end by milling gates), replacing it with another gatekeeper (or woodlot crawler, we'll see).
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
i'm not sure what happened last time you tried to resolve a 7+ mana sorcery against control, but I don't think it's realistic to think that it'll ever happen. Cyclonic rift is a great way to stop jace from ulting or just removing it so you can play and defend your own when you have enough mana.
I was playing against a guy in the practice room that was playing domri in the 4 color chat deck. But I think his spell count was probably too high.
He's probably right, his deck has enough removal that he doesn't need to bounce tokens.
Esper isn't running that many counters main, so a 7 mana spell could resolve. But spending 7 mana to kill a jace that -2'd is pretty bad value.
But cyclonic rift is probably better than vraska though.
There's an astonishing lack of counters right now. I guess it's because most of the field is some sort of aggro deck.
Sure deathrite dies to gaze, but so does woodlot crawler and alot of the time saruli gatekeepers and jace will die too. That's why you should hold onto deathrite to help you stabilize after a big gaze, sometimes you do have to play it before hand though.
It's similar to how esper decks will wrath with a precinct captain or a lyev skyknight out, sometimes you just get overwhelmed and you have to wipe. doesn't mean you shouldn't play those creatures or your wrath.
I don't think there are any other cards in these colors that interact with the graveyard (besides scavenge) but the main thing is that it's extra card draw, and the chance to recur kill spells, jace's, aetherlings, and counters. And because you are recuring these important spells rather than just drawing them and using it once makes this a very powerful engine. It's very good with deathrite out.
Maybe I need a third deathrite? He's very good most of the time.
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
I've been very unimpressed with Gaze of Granite, too. It's wickedly expensive for a sweeper, costing more than Supreme Verdict to kill (usually) less things. It's definitely not Pernicious Deeds, which was admittedly awesome. There's just not a great black sweeper right now, since Mutilate and even Barter in Blood are Standard-only. I'd kill for a Damnation reprint. Far//Away is the closest we've got.
Currently Working On: Jund Ramp (RTR Block)
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The deck is very good. Like, astonishingly good. I am really surprised no one at the pro tour discovered this deck. I guess the mana was too shaky to their taste.
I did play against someone using like 4 captures main, and he did things like cast an angel for one mana, but what if you don't have that? And I still beat him.
I'm also not too sure about urban evolution. It is nice card draw though.
I'd like to see your list, if you don't mind posting it.
I think the reason why nobody played BUG was because of sphinx's revelation.
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring