3-1'd again with the last list I posted, except -1 urban evolution and +1 revelation in the main. Played against 4 red decks, 2 were splashing black. I saw a hellhole flailer, rakdos's return and dreadbore in a game. Maybe it's also for slaughter games? The guild gates messed up their tempo in a few games. And it seemed like they flooded out more, probably because they're running more lands for rakdos's return? Those games weren't really close. Rakdos seems inferior to mono red, and probably boros, as boros charm is really good against control, so much so that it's the only aggro deck that makes me bring in dispels.
The match I lost I had a missplay, not doing the correct math on dynacharge. I could have played around it by leaving my guy back to block. Doing that probably would have made me a 90% favorite to win. Though that was game 2 and I was down a game, so I might not have won the match as he won the roll.
Maybe I am just running well, but I have split the finals of the last 2 daily events that I have entered. Only difference from my list than his is I am running 1 more selesnyia charm in the sideboard than him and -1 urban evolution.
I know that you said that you are 75% against aggro decks overall with this deck, but from my experience mono red aggro seems to be the worst matchup.
Generally during sideboarding I will -2 wurm, -1 angel, -2 urban evolution, +3 smiter, +2 selesnyia charm. Any thoughts on how to improve this matchup without sacrificing our other matchups? Perhaps 1 or 2 trostani in the sideboard to side in for jace?
Since March 4th, i've been writing down my wins/losses in each event that gives out prizes. I'm currently 9/3 against mono red. And that record doesn't include the 4 dailies I 3-1'd since I started playing block.
I'm not sure why you're having problems with mono red. Centaur healer is one of the best 3 drop vs them (reckoner is the best). It blocks all their 2 power guys, if they mortars it, they just got time walked. Also you're playing 4 wraths main, some control decks are playing 2-3.
You could cut 2 urban evolutions and replace them with the 3rd detention sphere and the 4th revelation.
If you don't want to change your main deck, you can change your sideboard plan. You can bring in 2 d-spheres from the board. You can cut a jace, as they're not good when you're behind, and they're bad in multiples. You can also cut a revelation as they're clunky as well. My win % against red was with me playing 3 revelations. So 4 aren't needed to beat them.
I went 1/3 drop in the premier event. Lost the roll vs mono red and drew poorly. Lost vs UW as I messed up angel of serenity triggers, I only had 8 mins to win 2 games, and the opponent had 10 minutes, so I just scooped it up.
I beat black boros, if they don't pressure your life total with a 3 drop and you have counter spells, it's an easy game. 3rd loss was to naya playing gyre sage, smiter, assemble the legion, angel of serenity, and aurelia. The match up seems fine, I just flooded the third game, while he got to sand bag angel into aurelia for the win.
Apparently a bant deck won the premier event, with main deck azorius keyrune.
I'm at a loss as to what cards are playable in this format.
I stopped playing this deck as I went on a terrible losing streak (going 2-2 in a string of dailies as opposed to 3-1ing them). I've been playing a UWb deck, which has given me some perspective on bant.
Bant has to mulligan more than the UW decks or UW splash black decks. It mulligans more because it has heavy colored mana requirements, and it's also playing 6 cards that cost 6 or more. And bant mulligans poorly because of its hungry colored mana requirements. I don't know if centaur healer is better than Lyev Skynight. Skynight is bad vs legion loyalist, but is better at beating down. So splashing green for 4 centaur healers isn't that amazing.
And a lot of the good things about bant:
virtually immune to slaughter games
can exile obzedat and angel of serenity
has some of the best high end
Are made somewhat moot when you can splash black instead of heavy green. Splashing black gives you Obzedat and orzhov charm (or devour flesh). The mana is much better than bant, though you have to play 2 guildgates.
Bant is still a fine deck. I don't know if it's tier 1 though.
lucas974 (4-0)
RTR Block Constructed Daily #5196427 on 03/24/2013
With the same list as above.
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Does anybody have any thoughts on cards to add to the Bant decks? I have an block SCQ coming up this Saturday and I am looking for some additions or a good/solid list to run this weekend.
There are so many cards to choose from in bant's colors it's really hard to figure out which ones should make the cut. Also another problem with bant is the mana. The new cards like render silent, plasma capture and advent of the wurm don't help you decide which 2 colors should be your main ones. And bant has access to gatecreeper vine which can help fix your mana as well as soak up some damage from mono red. It helps you play these heavy color requirement spells on time while letting you play fewer guild gates. If you expect a lot of aggro you should be playing 5 guild gates max.
I wanted to play a maximum of 4 guild gates. Gatecreeper vine helps with this and i'm playing very little green. And 12 green sources might not be enough to play gatecreeper on turn 2.
Since I couldn't figure out how to play all the creatures I wanted while playing 4 wraths, I just cut most of the creatures.
I only have 5 win conditions in the deck if you don't count Jace ult. Advent of the wurm and Aetherling are very robust creatures. The wurm should provide great value in combat.
This is a very rough list, I don't have the cards for it yet. The numbers could be off. I could see playing just 2 Aetherlings as they're not the greatest in multiples. I could see playing 4 gatecreeper vines. I could see playing more Jaces. The cyclonic rift might not even be good, but token decks could take off. This deck could also go down to 25 lands since the curve stops at 6 (excluding revelation), and there are 3 gatecreepers. Wurm could be cut entirely just to blank people's removal, but I wanted a cheap card that gave board presence. And this card provides great value if I pick something off in combat or snipe a planeswalker end of turn. The only other cheap card that gives board presence while giving value is lyev skyknight, which is okay but not great.
I'm not sure what you have in the sideboard, but if you are only relying on aetherling and 2 advent of the wurm to win, then you are really weak to slaughter games.
I'd get rid of 1 render silent, and the cyclonic rift, and play 2 angel of serenity.
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I'm not sure what you have in the sideboard, but if you are only relying on aetherling and 2 advent of the wurm to win, then you are really weak to slaughter games.
I'd get rid of 1 render silent, and the cyclonic rift, and play 2 angel of serenity.
You played JESUS?!?! I heard none of his guys stay in the graveyard, and once you think you have him beat he ALWAYS comes back to win within three turns. I like...WORSHIP him.
Plasma capture is a powerful card, but it costs 4 mana and doesn't impact the board, which is a problem vs mono red
It also incentivises you to play high casting cost cards in your deck, which is also not good vs mono red.
The cost is also prohibited, it'll be hard to cast this on turn 4 unless you're playing gatecreeper vines.
Lastly it's also not that good in counter spell battles.
The most I could see is playing 1 in a deck.
The problem with verdant haven is it also doesn't impact the board. The 2 life is nice, but mono red does damage in 5-10 point swings. You can't take off your 3rd turn vs mono red. There are just not enough cheap 1-2 mana spells to do so. You can read my rant about keyrunes, same thing applies to verdant haven.
I'm not sure what you have in the sideboard, but if you are only relying on aetherling and 2 advent of the wurm to win, then you are really weak to slaughter games.
I'd get rid of 1 render silent, and the cyclonic rift, and play 2 angel of serenity.
There are esper decks that are just playing 5 creatures. So this strategy looks viable.
Been meaning to post this deck for a while. I've been playing a variation of it since before GTC (it has obviously changed very little since RTR). Despite the guildgates and keyrunes it has always done consistently well against mono-red and other aggro decks.
Is this something that you've been playing in the tournament practice room?
I don't think I have seen bant decks like this in dailies. You have 10 guildgates and 3 keyrunes with very few relevant 2/3 drops. I would drop down the guildgates, add in gatecreepers if you have to, mainboard smiters, have at least 2 jaces, cut down the armada wurms and cut the keyrunes (at least move to side) and probably play advents.
Been meaning to post this deck for a while. I've been playing a variation of it since before GTC (it has obviously changed very little since RTR). Despite the guildgates and keyrunes it has always done consistently well against mono-red and other aggro decks.
More of a question. How on earth does it not flat-out die to mono-red? Because... it does.
Sure, it dies to the ol' Emissary God Hand when I'm on the draw, but unless I'm extremely lucky that isn't how most games against mono-red go. There's a lot of stall in the charms and Centaurs. Enough to survive till the turn 4-5 Verdict.
Cut 2 psychic spirals and add 2 cancel/render silent
I'm a bit loath to cut keyrunes what with 4 maindeck Verdicts. They certainly do a lot of work on the post-board-wipe attack. Additionally, losing my Armada Wurms to Slaughter Games would be utterly devastating without enough keyrunes to fall back on. I have often wondered if 23 lands is too few for such a color and mana intensive deck but that hasn't proven to be the case.
The sideboard could certainly use more work, though.
Like I said before, I've played this deck a lot now and it has always performed well. The thing is that I tend to only play casually which I know isn't the best indicator of how the deck stands up against consistent competitive play. That being said, my friends don't mind net decking when we put prizes on the line and all of us make sure that even our casual concoctions can at least put up a fight against the mono-red challenge.
So they only played 3 revelations, but 4 wraths and 4 jaces. They also ran very few azorius charms, Tom and Reid only played 1. I guess they were a GW deck splashing blue. They also had advent in the sideboard. Advent seems good vs all archetypes, so i'm not sure why they didn't main deck it, especially since they were heavy green. Your opponent wouldn't know whether you'd play plasm capture or advent.
The match I lost I had a missplay, not doing the correct math on dynacharge. I could have played around it by leaving my guy back to block. Doing that probably would have made me a 90% favorite to win. Though that was game 2 and I was down a game, so I might not have won the match as he won the roll.
Maybe I am just running well, but I have split the finals of the last 2 daily events that I have entered. Only difference from my list than his is I am running 1 more selesnyia charm in the sideboard than him and -1 urban evolution.
I know that you said that you are 75% against aggro decks overall with this deck, but from my experience mono red aggro seems to be the worst matchup.
Generally during sideboarding I will -2 wurm, -1 angel, -2 urban evolution, +3 smiter, +2 selesnyia charm. Any thoughts on how to improve this matchup without sacrificing our other matchups? Perhaps 1 or 2 trostani in the sideboard to side in for jace?
I'm not sure why you're having problems with mono red. Centaur healer is one of the best 3 drop vs them (reckoner is the best). It blocks all their 2 power guys, if they mortars it, they just got time walked. Also you're playing 4 wraths main, some control decks are playing 2-3.
You could cut 2 urban evolutions and replace them with the 3rd detention sphere and the 4th revelation.
If you don't want to change your main deck, you can change your sideboard plan. You can bring in 2 d-spheres from the board. You can cut a jace, as they're not good when you're behind, and they're bad in multiples. You can also cut a revelation as they're clunky as well. My win % against red was with me playing 3 revelations. So 4 aren't needed to beat them.
I went 1/3 drop in the premier event. Lost the roll vs mono red and drew poorly. Lost vs UW as I messed up angel of serenity triggers, I only had 8 mins to win 2 games, and the opponent had 10 minutes, so I just scooped it up.
I beat black boros, if they don't pressure your life total with a 3 drop and you have counter spells, it's an easy game. 3rd loss was to naya playing gyre sage, smiter, assemble the legion, angel of serenity, and aurelia. The match up seems fine, I just flooded the third game, while he got to sand bag angel into aurelia for the win.
I'm at a loss as to what cards are playable in this format.
I stopped playing this deck as I went on a terrible losing streak (going 2-2 in a string of dailies as opposed to 3-1ing them). I've been playing a UWb deck, which has given me some perspective on bant.
Bant has to mulligan more than the UW decks or UW splash black decks. It mulligans more because it has heavy colored mana requirements, and it's also playing 6 cards that cost 6 or more. And bant mulligans poorly because of its hungry colored mana requirements. I don't know if centaur healer is better than Lyev Skynight. Skynight is bad vs legion loyalist, but is better at beating down. So splashing green for 4 centaur healers isn't that amazing.
And a lot of the good things about bant:
virtually immune to slaughter games
can exile obzedat and angel of serenity
has some of the best high end
Are made somewhat moot when you can splash black instead of heavy green. Splashing black gives you Obzedat and orzhov charm (or devour flesh). The mana is much better than bant, though you have to play 2 guildgates.
Bant is still a fine deck. I don't know if it's tier 1 though.
Here's the decklist
1 Azorius Guildgate
4 Breeding Pool
4 Forest
4 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
4 Plains
1 Simic Guildgate
4 Temple Garden
Creatures 13
2 Angel of Serenity
2 Armada Wurm
4 Gatecreeper Vine
4 Loxodon Smiter
1 Sylvan Primordial
2 Azorius Charm
2 Azorius Keyrune
2 Detention Sphere
3 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Selesnya Charm
2 Selesnya Keyrune
2 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Supreme Verdict
3 Urban Evolution
3 Blind Obedience
4 Centaur Healer
3 Dispel
2 Sylvan Primordial
2 Syncopate
1 Urban Evolution
RTR Block Constructed Daily #5196427 on 03/24/2013
With the same list as above.
With that in mind here's my new take on bant:
5 Island
3 Plains
1 Forest
4 Temple Garden
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Breeding Pool
2 Azorius Guildgate
2 Simic Guildgate
1 Selesnya Guildgate
3 Aetherling
3 Gatecreeper Vine
Spells 28
4 Supreme Verdict
4 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Azorius Charm
3 Syncopate
3 Selesnya Charm
3 Render Silent
2 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Detention Sphere
2 Advent of the Wurm
1 Cyclonic Rift
I wanted to play a maximum of 4 guild gates. Gatecreeper vine helps with this and i'm playing very little green. And 12 green sources might not be enough to play gatecreeper on turn 2.
Since I couldn't figure out how to play all the creatures I wanted while playing 4 wraths, I just cut most of the creatures.
I only have 5 win conditions in the deck if you don't count Jace ult. Advent of the wurm and Aetherling are very robust creatures. The wurm should provide great value in combat.
This is a very rough list, I don't have the cards for it yet. The numbers could be off. I could see playing just 2 Aetherlings as they're not the greatest in multiples. I could see playing 4 gatecreeper vines. I could see playing more Jaces. The cyclonic rift might not even be good, but token decks could take off. This deck could also go down to 25 lands since the curve stops at 6 (excluding revelation), and there are 3 gatecreepers. Wurm could be cut entirely just to blank people's removal, but I wanted a cheap card that gave board presence. And this card provides great value if I pick something off in combat or snipe a planeswalker end of turn. The only other cheap card that gives board presence while giving value is lyev skyknight, which is okay but not great.
I'd get rid of 1 render silent, and the cyclonic rift, and play 2 angel of serenity.
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
yes the sideboard would address slaughter games, i would play some skynights, ascended lawmage and diluvian primordial
angel of serenity is not the greatest when you don't many creatures to return
angel also makes the curve clunkier vs mono red
What do you think on Verdant Haven? (Ramps up while also heals from aggro bleeding)
Also I think a transformational sideboard with Ascended Lawmage + Unflinching Courage will act as "poor man GoST". Is it viable?
And remember, we have access to Lavinia for those monored-s.
My 180 Modern Bordered Only Cube
It also incentivises you to play high casting cost cards in your deck, which is also not good vs mono red.
The cost is also prohibited, it'll be hard to cast this on turn 4 unless you're playing gatecreeper vines.
Lastly it's also not that good in counter spell battles.
The most I could see is playing 1 in a deck.
The problem with verdant haven is it also doesn't impact the board. The 2 life is nice, but mono red does damage in 5-10 point swings. You can't take off your 3rd turn vs mono red. There are just not enough cheap 1-2 mana spells to do so. You can read my rant about keyrunes, same thing applies to verdant haven.
There are esper decks that are just playing 5 creatures. So this strategy looks viable.
http://www.wizards.com/magic/digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/5399706
4 Azorius Guildgate
2 Breeding Pool
1 Forest
4 Hallowed Fountain
2 Plains
4 Selesnya Guildgate
2 Simic Guildgate
4 Temple Garden
Creatures 11
2 Angel of Serenity
4 Armada Wurm
4 Centaur Healer
1 Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
3 Azorius Charm
3 Azorius Keyrune
3 Detention Sphere
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
3 Selesnya Charm
3 Selesnya Keyrune
3 Simic Charm
1 Simic Keyrune
2 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Supreme Verdict
3 Dispel
4 Loxodon Smiter
3 Psychic Spiral
1 Selesnya Charm
4 Unflinching Courage
Any thoughts?
I don't think I have seen bant decks like this in dailies. You have 10 guildgates and 3 keyrunes with very few relevant 2/3 drops. I would drop down the guildgates, add in gatecreepers if you have to, mainboard smiters, have at least 2 jaces, cut down the armada wurms and cut the keyrunes (at least move to side) and probably play advents.
Add 4 more lands and cut 4 keyrunes.
Cut 2 psychic spirals and add 2 cancel/render silent
Sure, it dies to the ol' Emissary God Hand when I'm on the draw, but unless I'm extremely lucky that isn't how most games against mono-red go. There's a lot of stall in the charms and Centaurs. Enough to survive till the turn 4-5 Verdict.
I'm a bit loath to cut keyrunes what with 4 maindeck Verdicts. They certainly do a lot of work on the post-board-wipe attack. Additionally, losing my Armada Wurms to Slaughter Games would be utterly devastating without enough keyrunes to fall back on. I have often wondered if 23 lands is too few for such a color and mana intensive deck but that hasn't proven to be the case.
The sideboard could certainly use more work, though.
Like I said before, I've played this deck a lot now and it has always performed well. The thing is that I tend to only play casually which I know isn't the best indicator of how the deck stands up against consistent competitive play. That being said, my friends don't mind net decking when we put prizes on the line and all of us make sure that even our casual concoctions can at least put up a fight against the mono-red challenge.
1 Plains
3 Forest
4 Island
4 Temple Garden
4 Breeding Pool
4 Hallowed Fountain
3 Selesnya Guildgate
2 Azorius Guildgate
1 Simic Guildgate
Creatures 13
4 Voice of Resurgence
3 Gatecreeper Vine
2 Loxodon Smiter
2 Angel of Serenity
2 Aetherling
1 Selesnya Keyrune
2 Syncopate
1 Azorius Charm
3 Detention Sphere
4 Supreme Verdict
1 Urban Evolution
3 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Plasm Capture
4 Jace, Architect of Thought
3 Centaur Healer
1 Rapid Hybridization
1 Detention Sphere
2 Cyclonic Rift
3 Dispel
2 Cancel
2 Azorius Charm
4 Breeding Pool
4 Temple Garden
4 Hallowed Fountain
2 Azorius Guildgate
3 Selesnya Guildgate
1 Simic Guildgate
4 Forest
3 Island
1 Plains
Creatures 15
4 Voice of Resurgence
3 Gatecreeper Vine
4 Loxodon Smiter
2 Angel of Serenity
2 Aetherling
1 Azorius Charm
3 Detention Sphere
4 Supreme Verdict
3 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Syncopate
2 Plasm Capture
4 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Centaur Healer
3 Dispel
2 Cancel
2 Advent of the Wurm
1 Angel of Serenity
1 Detention Sphere
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Lavinia of the Tenth
1 Rapid Hybridization
4 Temple Garden
4 Breeding Pool
4 Hallowed Fountain
2 Azorius Guildgate
1 Simic Guildgate
3 Selesnya Guildgate
4 Forest
3 Island
1 Plains
Creatures 14
4 Voice of Resurgence
3 Gatecreeper Vine
4 Loxodon Smiter
1 Angel of Serenity
2 Aetherling
4 Supreme Verdict
2 Syncopate
3 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Azorius Charm
2 Plasm Capture
3 Detention Sphere
4 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Dispel
2 Angel of Serenity
2 Cancel
2 Advent of the Wurm
3 Centaur Healer
1 Maze's End
1 Selesnya Charm
1 Detention Sphere
1 Syncopate
So they only played 3 revelations, but 4 wraths and 4 jaces. They also ran very few azorius charms, Tom and Reid only played 1. I guess they were a GW deck splashing blue. They also had advent in the sideboard. Advent seems good vs all archetypes, so i'm not sure why they didn't main deck it, especially since they were heavy green. Your opponent wouldn't know whether you'd play plasm capture or advent.