When Nicol Bolas, the Ravager was spoiled, I knew I was going to build him. Grixis is my second favorite three color combination, and the new Nicol Bolas seemed like a great excuse to update my old Nicol Bolas list with some new goodies. Rather than update the old thread, I decided to leave it there for future generations to study.
1) Win conditions. I'm pretty light on them at the moment, and I'm not sure what to do about it. I would prefer to avoid combo and win somewhat fairly as that is more interesting to me. I do have three very powerful planeswalkers at my disposal which I can protect with my density of counterspells and removal, but that's pretty risky. I've been thinking of adding more theft style cards as a win con as it's both powerful and flavorful, but many playgroups tend to frown on heavy theft decks. Maybe time magic to protect my planeswalkers and to tick them up to ultimates? Expensive haymaker sorceries like Rise of the Dark Realms? Anything but Dramatic Reversal + Isochron Scepter, please.
2) Card draw/selection. The overwhelming majority of my commanders over the years have all been card draw machines, so I'm honestly a little unsure about how much to play. I'm using four and a half cantrip style cards, four tutors, and seven sources of card draw. Seems like a solid amount, right?
3) Creatures. I don't like them and it's easy to go without the three I have if I refocus on stealing opponents' creatures, but Notion Thief and Consecrated Sphinx are both really good. Dragonlord Silumgar is there as a generic goodstuff card so he's easy to get rid of.
Feedback and suggestions are more than welcome since this is just a beta build. I'm not happy with it, though I think I'm on the right track.
So I was planning on building this guy as well. However I was going to play cards which help run the table out of cards like: Syphon Mind, Unnerve, Tasigur's Cruelty, Skull Rend, Dark Deal, and Dark Intimations. I felt like they synergies with Bolas. My thoughts where to play a good stuff / control game plan and running the other players out of relevant cards so that we can safely flip Bolas.
I'm personally not a fan of Thran Dynamo in this list. One it cost the same as Bolas so most of the time I want to 1 for 4 the table and it only produces colorless mana, I would personally replace this with either: Wayfarer's Bauble, or Expedition Map. Alternatively we can just continue to run lower to the ground.
Cryptic Command seems greedy on colors. I would also trim Blue Sun's Zenith similar reason and you have access to better card advantage cards. You might run Night's Whisper if you're concerned about card draw.
I would like to see Gilded Drake if you have access to it.
Also I know they are expensive but Force of Will and Pact of Negation seem more or less mandatory here as a way of protecting Bolas when we go to flip.
I would replace Mind Twist with Rakdos's Return, just a personal preference, the fact that Rakdos's Return can kill a planeswalker is very useful from time to time and can also act as a finisher.
All is Dust is useful but in Grixis I don't think you're going to need it, alternatively I would replace it with Ugin, the Spirit Dragon if you like the effect just because he can also act as a finisher.
Magmaquake is very meh, I get the flavor win but double red is a real cost.
I think when the deck becomes "tooned" you're going to cut Capsize and or Forbid but they are solid cards for a beta list.
Best of Luck! Keep us updated as the list changes!
So I was planning on building this guy as well. However I was going to play cards which help run the table out of cards like: Syphon Mind, Unnerve, Tasigur's Cruelty, Skull Rend, Dark Deal, and Dark Intimations. I felt like they synergies with Bolas. My thoughts where to play a good stuff / control game plan and running the other players out of relevant cards so that we can safely flip Bolas.
Interesting. I thought about going the discard route but my problem with running incremental discard is that getting rid of their worst card is often ineffectual. Sounds dumb coming from someone building around an incremental discard commander, but to that end Nicky B here serves as simply an additional point of disruption. The 4 mana discard twos could do work, though. I have two fears: graveyard strategies and topdecking them in the late game. I played Pox for a decent time in Legacy and one of the biggest aggravations with the deck would be topdecking discard against someone hellbent already. For the former I could add another piece of graveyard hate, and Unnerve, Tasigur's Cruelty, and Arterial Flow (despite its somewhat restrictive cost) seem playable to complement the countermagic strategy. Going this route would strengthen the reanimator aspect of the deck and act as a win condition.
I'm personally not a fan of Thran Dynamo in this list. One it cost the same as Bolas so most of the time I want to 1 for 4 the table and it only produces colorless mana, I would personally replace this with either: Wayfarer's Bauble, or Expedition Map. Alternatively we can just continue to run lower to the ground.
True, often you'll want to jam Nicol Bolas out there on turn 3-4 to start the disruption train, but this deck can get mana hungry in the mid to late game with all the expensive haymakers and win conditions. Typically, you'll want to have at least one way to protect your win condition so tapping Dynamo for three to leave three blue mana open is very good. I'll keep an eye on it, though.
Cryptic Command seems greedy on colors. I would also trim Blue Sun's Zenith similar reason and you have access to better card advantage cards. You might run Night's Whisper if you're concerned about card draw.
Cryptic Command isn't too greedy since typically you're not going to be casting it on turn 4. This is primarily a blue deck with plenty of nonbasics with 6 Islands, so I feel comfortable running it. I have a thing for charms and versatility, so the ability to fog and bounce something problematic stapled to Dismiss is pretty good. I wish I had fetches, but alas. As for BSZ, well, you could have a point. While this is a Draw, Go styled deck and casting it at X = 5+ at instant speed is nice, I think it has the possibility of sitting in my hand without a great point to play it. Night's Whisper is a fantastic card, but I would be more comfortable adding in another cheap mana draw spell as well. Maybe Manifold Insights? Deep Analysis?
I would like to see Gilded Drake if you have access to it.
Also I know they are expensive but Force of Will and Pact of Negation seem more or less mandatory here as a way of protecting Bolas when we go to flip.
Unfortunately, all but Pact are out of my budget, and I don't think Pact is that great here since this isn't a combo list. More often than not you're not going to win on the turn Pact resolves, and the upkeep cost is real. If I would buy any expensive counterspell it would be Mana Drain, since that card would enable all kinds of degenerate nonsense.
I would replace Mind Twist with Rakdos's Return, just a personal preference, the fact that Rakdos's Return can kill a planeswalker is very useful from time to time and can also act as a finisher.
Why not both? I prefer Mind Twist for the lower cost and random discard, but Rakdos's Return is also pretty spicy. Disruption that can act as a win condition sounds good.
All is Dust is useful but in Grixis I don't think you're going to need it, alternatively I would replace it with Ugin, the Spirit Dragon if you like the effect just because he can also act as a finisher.
Since this deck primarily only contributes mana rocks to the board more often than not this is a huge one sided removal spell. 7 is a lot, though. I'll take it out and see if I miss it.
Ugin is 100% a flavor fail, though. I very rarely invoke this but flavor beats out function once in a blue moon.
Magmaquake is very meh, I get the flavor win but double red is a real cost.
You're right. I included it because it's an instant speed sweeper that doesn't touch my commander, but I think it's a greedy inclusion in hindsight.
I think when the deck becomes "tooned" you're going to cut Capsize and or Forbid but they are solid cards for a beta list.
Capsize possibly, but Forbid is part of the endgame lock with Nicol Bolas, the Arisen. If you can survive to the 1v1 phase the Draw, Go aspect of the deck kicks in and you just win by protecting your planeswalker commander with removal and countermagic. Forbid makes that even easier. Also, Forbid is one of my favorite cards, so.
I don't think you're "that" unhappy when you top deck a discard spell and players are all hell bent. That is the time you flip Bolas!
We're going to have to agree to disagree on Cryptic, I run mono blue competitive lists and it is still often too greedy once the lists are tooned. I only run it in 1 list and that's Baral.
Pact as I said is there not because we are comboing off but because we just loose almost any game we spend 7 mana to flip bolas where someone has instant speed removal and Pact is a free way to protect our bolas when we go to flip. Honestly Force and Pact are likely more important for this list then Mana Drain if you're goal (mine at least) is to flip Bolas. I would also consider Misdirection as a budget option.
Manifold Insights always impresses me, I only really play in four pods and this deck is also best in those types of pods if you're on the everyone discard plan. Syphon Mind is totally fine card draw, Harmonize with discard upside, it's a 6 for 1.
Dark Deal has been nice in my experience digging 3-6 cards often for 3 mana and also cut one card out of each of our opponents hands. It's a sneaky way to go 2 for 3 on the table while digging for a new hand. Also wins games with Notion Thief.
Let us know how the deck ends up playing when you get it built. I'll work up my list sometime this week and post it here as well!
1 Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Lands: 35
1 Ash Barrens
1 Blood Crypt
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 City of Brass
1 Command Tower
1 Crumbling Necropolis
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Graven Cairns
6 Island
1 Luxury Suite
1 Mana Confluence
1 Morphic Pool
1 Mountain
1 Path of Ancestry
1 Shivan Reef
1 Smoldering Marsh
1 Steam Vents
1 Strip Mine
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Sulfurous Springs
1 Sunken Hollow
1 Sunken Ruins
4 Swamp
1 Underground River
1 Watery Grave
Creatures: 3
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Dragonlord Silumgar
1 Notion Thief
1 Blink of an Eye
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Brainstorm
1 Capsize
1 Counterflux
1 Counterspell
1 Crosis's Charm
1 Cryptic Command
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Delay
1 Dig Through Time
1 Disallow
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Forbid
1 Grixis Charm
1 Hero's Downfall
1 Impulse
1 Magmaquake
1 Mystic Confluence
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Negate
1 Pull from Tomorrow
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Reins of Power
1 Supreme Will
1 Swan Song
1 Terminate
1 Vampiric Tutor
Enchantments: 2
1 Animate Dead
1 Treachery
1 Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
Sorceries: 17
1 All Is Dust
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Bribery
1 Crux of Fate
1 Damnation
1 Dark Petition
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Expropriate
1 Mind Twist
1 Painful Truths
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Read the Bones
1 Reanimate
1 Torment of Hailfire
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Vandalblast
Artifacts: 12
1 Coalition Relic
1 Dimir Signet
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Izzet Signet
1 Mind Stone
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Sol Ring
1 Talisman of Dominance
1 Talisman of Indulgence
1 Thought Vessel
1 Thran Dynamo
Things I'm concerned about:
1) Win conditions. I'm pretty light on them at the moment, and I'm not sure what to do about it. I would prefer to avoid combo and win somewhat fairly as that is more interesting to me. I do have three very powerful planeswalkers at my disposal which I can protect with my density of counterspells and removal, but that's pretty risky. I've been thinking of adding more theft style cards as a win con as it's both powerful and flavorful, but many playgroups tend to frown on heavy theft decks. Maybe time magic to protect my planeswalkers and to tick them up to ultimates? Expensive haymaker sorceries like Rise of the Dark Realms? Anything but Dramatic Reversal + Isochron Scepter, please.
2) Card draw/selection. The overwhelming majority of my commanders over the years have all been card draw machines, so I'm honestly a little unsure about how much to play. I'm using four and a half cantrip style cards, four tutors, and seven sources of card draw. Seems like a solid amount, right?
3) Creatures. I don't like them and it's easy to go without the three I have if I refocus on stealing opponents' creatures, but Notion Thief and Consecrated Sphinx are both really good. Dragonlord Silumgar is there as a generic goodstuff card so he's easy to get rid of.
Feedback and suggestions are more than welcome since this is just a beta build. I'm not happy with it, though I think I'm on the right track.
[Primer] Erebos, God of the Dead
HONK HONK
I'm personally not a fan of Thran Dynamo in this list. One it cost the same as Bolas so most of the time I want to 1 for 4 the table and it only produces colorless mana, I would personally replace this with either: Wayfarer's Bauble, or Expedition Map. Alternatively we can just continue to run lower to the ground.
Cryptic Command seems greedy on colors. I would also trim Blue Sun's Zenith similar reason and you have access to better card advantage cards. You might run Night's Whisper if you're concerned about card draw.
I'm planning on running Kess, Dissident Mage and Snapcaster Mage.
I would like to see Gilded Drake if you have access to it.
Also I know they are expensive but Force of Will and Pact of Negation seem more or less mandatory here as a way of protecting Bolas when we go to flip.
I would replace Mind Twist with Rakdos's Return, just a personal preference, the fact that Rakdos's Return can kill a planeswalker is very useful from time to time and can also act as a finisher.
All is Dust is useful but in Grixis I don't think you're going to need it, alternatively I would replace it with Ugin, the Spirit Dragon if you like the effect just because he can also act as a finisher.
Magmaquake is very meh, I get the flavor win but double red is a real cost.
I think when the deck becomes "tooned" you're going to cut Capsize and or Forbid but they are solid cards for a beta list.
Best of Luck! Keep us updated as the list changes!
UBRNicol Bolas, the RavagerUBR
R Jaya Ballard, Task Mage R
2DH / Budget Commanders:
WMangara of Corondor 2DHW
BRXantcha, Sleeper Agent 2DHBR
True, often you'll want to jam Nicol Bolas out there on turn 3-4 to start the disruption train, but this deck can get mana hungry in the mid to late game with all the expensive haymakers and win conditions. Typically, you'll want to have at least one way to protect your win condition so tapping Dynamo for three to leave three blue mana open is very good. I'll keep an eye on it, though.
Cryptic Command isn't too greedy since typically you're not going to be casting it on turn 4. This is primarily a blue deck with plenty of nonbasics with 6 Islands, so I feel comfortable running it. I have a thing for charms and versatility, so the ability to fog and bounce something problematic stapled to Dismiss is pretty good. I wish I had fetches, but alas. As for BSZ, well, you could have a point. While this is a Draw, Go styled deck and casting it at X = 5+ at instant speed is nice, I think it has the possibility of sitting in my hand without a great point to play it. Night's Whisper is a fantastic card, but I would be more comfortable adding in another cheap mana draw spell as well. Maybe Manifold Insights? Deep Analysis?
Unfortunately, all but Pact are out of my budget, and I don't think Pact is that great here since this isn't a combo list. More often than not you're not going to win on the turn Pact resolves, and the upkeep cost is real. If I would buy any expensive counterspell it would be Mana Drain, since that card would enable all kinds of degenerate nonsense.
Why not both? I prefer Mind Twist for the lower cost and random discard, but Rakdos's Return is also pretty spicy. Disruption that can act as a win condition sounds good.
Since this deck primarily only contributes mana rocks to the board more often than not this is a huge one sided removal spell. 7 is a lot, though. I'll take it out and see if I miss it.
Ugin is 100% a flavor fail, though. I very rarely invoke this but flavor beats out function once in a blue moon.
You're right. I included it because it's an instant speed sweeper that doesn't touch my commander, but I think it's a greedy inclusion in hindsight.
Capsize possibly, but Forbid is part of the endgame lock with Nicol Bolas, the Arisen. If you can survive to the 1v1 phase the Draw, Go aspect of the deck kicks in and you just win by protecting your planeswalker commander with removal and countermagic. Forbid makes that even easier. Also, Forbid is one of my favorite cards, so.
Thanks for the feedback!
+ Unnerve
+ Arterial Flow
+ Rakdos's Return
+ Night's Whisper
+ Necromancy
+ Dance of the Dead
+ Recoil
- Blink of an Eye
- Blue Sun's Zenith
- Magmaquake
- Dragonlord Silumgar
- Notion Thief
- Consecrated Sphinx
- All is Dust
This leaves me down some card draw and sweepers, so I'm going to need to find some room for some other stuff.
[Primer] Erebos, God of the Dead
HONK HONK
Recoil seems sweet as well.
I don't think you're "that" unhappy when you top deck a discard spell and players are all hell bent. That is the time you flip Bolas!
We're going to have to agree to disagree on Cryptic, I run mono blue competitive lists and it is still often too greedy once the lists are tooned. I only run it in 1 list and that's Baral.
Pact as I said is there not because we are comboing off but because we just loose almost any game we spend 7 mana to flip bolas where someone has instant speed removal and Pact is a free way to protect our bolas when we go to flip. Honestly Force and Pact are likely more important for this list then Mana Drain if you're goal (mine at least) is to flip Bolas. I would also consider Misdirection as a budget option.
Manifold Insights always impresses me, I only really play in four pods and this deck is also best in those types of pods if you're on the everyone discard plan. Syphon Mind is totally fine card draw, Harmonize with discard upside, it's a 6 for 1.
Dark Deal has been nice in my experience digging 3-6 cards often for 3 mana and also cut one card out of each of our opponents hands. It's a sneaky way to go 2 for 3 on the table while digging for a new hand. Also wins games with Notion Thief.
Let us know how the deck ends up playing when you get it built. I'll work up my list sometime this week and post it here as well!
UBRNicol Bolas, the RavagerUBR
R Jaya Ballard, Task Mage R
2DH / Budget Commanders:
WMangara of Corondor 2DHW
BRXantcha, Sleeper Agent 2DHBR
1x Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Instant (19)
1x Brainstorm
1x Counterspell
1x Countersquall
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Delay
1x Dig Through Time
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Force of Will
1x Impulse
1x Mana Drain
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Negate
1x Pact of Negation
1x Rakdos Charm
1x Recoil
1x Soul Manipulation
1x Swan Song
1x Terminate
1x Vampiric Tutor
Sorcery (22)
1x Arterial Flow
1x Blasphemous Act
1x Cruel Ultimatum
1x Damnation
1x Dark Deal
1x Dark Intimations
1x Dark Petition
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Dreadbore
1x Manifold Insights
1x Mind Twist
1x Night's Whisper
1x Painful Truths
1x Rakdos's Return
1x Read the Bones
1x Reanimate
1x Syphon Mind
1x Tasigur's Cruelty
1x Torment of Hailfire
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Unnerve
1x Vandalblast
1x Coalition Relic
1x Dimir Signet
1x Fellwar Stone
1x Gilded Lotus
1x Izzet Signet
1x Mind Stone
1x Rakdos Signet
1x Sol Ring
1x Talisman of Dominance
1x Talisman of Indulgence
1x Wayfarer's Bauble
Enchantment (4)
1x Animate Dead
1x Mystic Remora
1x Oath of Liliana
1x Treachery
Creature (5)
1x Gilded Drake
1x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip
1x Kess, Dissident Mage
1x Notion Thief
1x Snapcaster Mage
Planeswalker (4)
1x Dack Fayden
1x Liliana of the Veil
1x Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh
1x Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
Land (34)
1x Blood Crypt
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Canyon Slough
1x City of Brass
1x Command Tower
1x Dragonskull Summit
1x Drowned Catacomb
1x Fetid Pools
1x Flooded Strand
4x Island
1x Luxury Suite
1x Mana Confluence
1x Marsh Flats
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Morphic Pool
1x Mountain
1x Polluted Delta
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Shivan Reef
1x Smoldering Marsh
1x Steam Vents
1x Sulfur Falls
1x Sulfurous Springs
1x Sunken Hollow
1x Sunken Ruins
2x Swamp
1x Underground River
1x Watery Grave
UBRNicol Bolas, the RavagerUBR
R Jaya Ballard, Task Mage R
2DH / Budget Commanders:
WMangara of Corondor 2DHW
BRXantcha, Sleeper Agent 2DHBR