MTG Salvation

So, I was looking at Nezahal and I really liked how it was a wincon and card draw mixed together. The comander self protects which is really cool and it does so in such a way that its card draw ability helps protect it. I started asking myself how I would get past the fact that it has no evasion but then I realized that I could both attack and defend by disrupting my opponents and just bouncing their stuff back to hands. Combine some bouncing with some extra turns and just general control elements and I felt like there was some strong potential for this commander.

One of the things I also like about this commander is that you can load up with some cards that are a little more niche and if you dont need those cards you can ditch them to the commander. I tried not to go toooooo niche but stuff like Hibernation might be a HUGE blow out and if its not important I can just ditch it as part of a protection flicker.

I tried looking into things worth discarding and Wonder / Drownyard Temple looked great for this sort of thing. I considered some flashback cards but I just didn't love most of them as they seemed kind of card draw based which my commander seemed good for already. Crucible of Worlds I also considered for this but I just felt like once I got my commander going it seemed unlikely that I really needed to run Crucible even with the interaction it has. I am trying to see if I cant find anything else that looks interesting from the standpoint of grave abuse but I have been having a hard time finding much. Soul of New Phyrexia could be an interesting trick but given my commander can already self protect it comes down to a question of how often I expect to need to discard it in protecting my commander AND protect my other stuff which seems kind of sketch.

This list looks a lot like the Kefnet the Mindful list that you posted a little while ago. I included Nezahal in the Kefnet list that I made for another finisher, but have you had the chance to try Nezahal out yet? If so, which do you think is better?

Quote from dbdrummer7 »

This list looks a lot like the Kefnet the Mindful list that you posted a little while ago. I included Nezahal in the Kefnet list that I made for another finisher, but have you had the chance to try Nezahal out yet? If so, which do you think is better?

This is a very early list for me. I do like Kefnet as well but I thought that I might try out the blue dino as I think both have some similarities. I will probably only keep one of them but I figured it was worth my time to try out the blue dino as well. I think Nezahal has better draw but also requires you to be a little more proactive rather than reactive. My goal when I was building Kefnet was a defensive draw go where as with this one I was trying to be more of a tempo disruption style rather than draw go. Its possible I could keep both of them as honestly mono color doesn't take up all that many staples. I ended up buying Mana Drains 2&3 with the drop in price due to Iconic Masters so my blue staples stretch a bit farther with that as well.

I think while it has some similarities to Kefnet my goal in how it played was very different and that is why I wanted to try it out. With kefnet I use the commander as my primary creature defense and I try to just play draw go (playing lands each turn). I think the deck does well at that but its also very slow when it comes to needing to remove players and in some ways I feel my Kefnet is a little bit political as well. I wanted to try something where I was more of a tempo aggressor and I think its an interesting change of pace for mono blue.

Ah, that makes sense. I was aiming more for tempo with Kefnet, so I may draw from this list as well then. It looks quite solid!

I've been thinking about building Nezahal. It's been a while since I've played big blue. Any updates thus far?

Also, if you're looking for janky stuff to throw in there, Dragon Wings might be good. It can be discarded to Nezahal's flicker ability, and once it's in the gy it'll trigger whenever Nezahal comes back into play after a flicker, so it just doesn't go away unless someone exiles it.

I like the idea of bouncing permanents to get value off "Whenever an opponent casts a noncreature spell, draw a card."

I personally would run a few more bounce cards: Devastation Tide, Crush of Tentacles, Kederekt Leviathan, Engulf the Shore, Chain of Vapor.

I would play Mystical Tutor to go with Devastation Tide.

With all the bounce spells I would look at Timetwister, Windfall and Time Spiral as ways to blow out opponents if you bounce board back to hand.

High Tide so that you can actual cast a sequence of spells in a given turn.

I think the extra Voltron plan is a pretty bad idea, so Loxodon Warhammer, Batterskull, Akroma's Memorial, Sword of Vengeance, Rogue's Passage, are the cards I personally would remove.

To make High Tide better, I'd remove Reliquary Tower and Winding Canyons for Islands. The thing is with Nezahal, Primal Tide you'd probably want to main phase it, so that you get a round of "Whenever an opponent casts a noncreature spell, draw a card." Casting it at the end of opponents turn seems counter productive to his abilities. Being able to blink it out means that you can afford to play into a potential wrath.

Quote from acidfreeze »

I've been thinking about building Nezahal. It's been a while since I've played big blue. Any updates thus far?

Also, if you're looking for janky stuff to throw in there, Dragon Wings might be good. It can be discarded to Nezahal's flicker ability, and once it's in the gy it'll trigger whenever Nezahal comes back into play after a flicker, so it just doesn't go away unless someone exiles it.

I am still a little back and forth on it. Some of this is that I have one set of extra turns (currently in my Kefnet deck). I have been having some issues with Kefnet though just in my own desire to play it considering how grindy of a matchup it can be whenever I bring out Kefnet. There is a very big difference in the playstlye of how I built Kefnet and Nezahal though as I went for more of a draw go approach which I think fits Kefnet a lot better where as I think Nezahal is more of a tempo style of blue play. I have however been very reluctant to play Kefnet and in the end, I think I probably will end up suiting up Nezahal and seeing how it plays in relation.

My LGS closed down two months ago now and I have not managed to play any magic since then. I am planning to play next week as I have a business trip I will be out on that will bring me back to an old meta of mine. That said I have two new decks already put together and I have not played any of my old decks in over two months either so it seems a little hard pressed to play all of my decks in that trip. I am hoping to play a little more regularly its just proven to be a challenge to figure out how to make that happen.

Dragon Wings - thats a great idea. I was really struggling to figure out anything else that resembled Wonder and that seems like a great choice.

DECK CHANGE:

• Wall of Frost -> Mind Stone my concern offhand is the lack of flying for the wall. I think its interesting but I think getting online faster will do a lot of work for me as well.
• Vedalken Shackles -> Wayfarer's Bauble I am not really sure why I thought that Shackles really fit here. I think its a fine card but with so much mass sweeping bounce and disruption it feels like it probably does not fit the list all that well. MORE RAMP!
• Profaner of the Dead -> Dragon Wings my concern with Profaner is that it does not really have a lot of creatures to choose from so it is probably using itself as what goes. My issue I guess is that I just don't think it is flexible enough as it seems like something that will be more or less just for tokens and utility / etb guys that it bounces out.
• 1 Island -> Minamo, School at Water's Edge it still gives me blue mana but I think the untap effect is relevant to have.

I do think that Nezahal is really cool. Some of my issue right now is just getting to get in and play games. I did buy a bunch of cards for the deck and I probably have most of what I need now to suit it up so I might put it together soon. I just hope I get to play my decks a bit more sometime soon.

I like the deck a lot. I am playing it on mtgo because I had like 95% of the deck already. The main change I did was add howling mine, temple bell, and Kami of the Crescent Moon. The cheap card draw is really great. I feel you need to hit land drops and having less than 3-4 cards in the hand feels kind of dead in the water lol. This obviously isnt great when you play in a very fast meta with combos but if you are playing battlecruiser or mike/trike / toothnnail type combos then you dont mind letting people play their stuff because we're bouncing it back anyways.

It seems like a good opportunity to use some blue Madness cards. We don't see those much in EDH.
I have a Nezahal deck myself and it was only looking at your deck list that I thought to look them up.
There are a couple of other instant-speed madness cards, but I think these are the ones that would fit most with Nezahal:

Just the Wind - Save your commander, bounce a permanent.
Obsessive Search - returns you that card you just discarded.


Another possible mechanic is with the recent Amonkhet discard effects:

Curator of Mysteries - Scrying
Drake Haven - I particularly like this one. Save your commander, put 6 power in the air.

And finally:

Telekinetic Bonds - May be too pricey for what it does? Seems like it could be fun, though.

Quote from BlackVise »

How are you finding actually getting Nezahal out? I feel like Apprentice Wizard could do some serious work here. Teferi, Temporal Archmage could help to cast him and keep mana open for answers too.

I like Apprentice Wizard a lot, I've never seen him before. I haven't had to cast the dino for more than 9 mana before and even that is rare. He is a big beater and a draw engine but even my play group says that it feels pretty bad to had to go after him because he usually isnt the biggest threat on the board ever. Teferi is a strong pw and probably would be great. I would add him but I am trying to keep my curve lower.

EDIT: This is what I have been playing. I copied ISB's list and then cut some money cards and lowered the curve a bit. I know some of the cards are cheap on MTGO that I cut but I like to have my decks matching when I make them in paper as well. This will only be my 3rd paper deck so I am pretty stoked.