When Tymna the Weaver was first printed, there was some speculation as to whether she could compete with Edric. Her ability is a little less strong for two reasons: (1) it runs off of how many players you hit, not how many creatures you hit with. This means that you can really only draw a maximum of 3-4 extra cards with her, and that the damage you dish out won't be focused, but has to be spread out among a bunch of different 40-life players. (2) her ability costs life; spending 3-4 life a turn to draw cards will make your life total drop unhappily fast, so when other people decide they're tired of being pinged they won't have too hard a time finishing you off.
Of course, the advantage she has is her colors, and her ability to par with other generals. There have already been some cool builds pairing her with kondo and tana, for example. I opted to pair her with Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker, because I felt that blue was indispensable, since countermagic is to my mind a central part of the strategy. Plus, with blue you have more access to creatures that are evasive in themselves, which means you don't have to rely on Kondo's ability to get them through (which really only gives them pseudo-flying, and even then only if they stay small) or Tana's go-wide strategy. The absence of green does make the deck less explosive though, and denies us access to a number of good utility cards. I suppose I could have chosen one of the UG partners but I felt 4 colors would be too unreliable for a deck with a pretty budget manabase that wants to be playing little guys on early turns consistently.
So much for the generals, on to the deck itself. Basically it's a bunch of evasive dweebs, together with some cards to pump them up and a decent amount of countermagic to protect them. The idea is to play them, attack, and start drawing a ton of cards. By turn 3 or 4, the deck is often drawing 3-4 cards a turn. From there we just wittle down various life totals and try to develop towards a point where we can alpha strike the most threatening player. Once they're gone, go for the next biggest threat and try it again. Since Tymna wants you to attack everyone and also hurts you yourself, the table's life totals tend to fall rather quickly. I actually only rarely play Ishai; he's a real beast but he draws all the removal and rarely sticks (for some reason no one tries to kill Tymna, but even if they did, you can benefit from her the turn she drops, so it would only slow us down a little). I've tried to offset the life she costs us with a couple life-link cards, but it's still a bit dicey sometimes, might be worth including some evasive life-linkers.
The list is pretty budget as of now, though feel free to suggest non-budget cards. I'm mostly looking for help cutting cards and suggestions as to better ways to get the dweebs to go lethal faster. I'm thinking of cutting stuff like Ninja of the Deep Hours and Harbinger of the Tides, since they don't have evasion and their bodies are mostly useless - Ninja ends up just being a 2-mana bounce a creature draw a card. Also thinking of adding a couple more extra-turn effects as well as maybe Jazal Goldmane or Mirror Entity. Ideally they wouldn't cost too much mana, since I'd like to be able to hold counterspell mana up while going for the kill. Also helpful would be more ways to gain life or defend against an opposing creature-horde.
Anyway, thanks for reading all this and any suggestions/comments are welcome.
took out some ETB creatures and the ninjas since they were pretty underwhelming and replaced them with better evasion creatures, removal/counters. also cut back on the little dweebs to add more pump effects. empyrial plate and bonehoard were proving to be pretty powerful, so i figured i'd drop in the aura versions of the same. basilica screecher is pretty jank, but he's evasive and extort can score us some life - as noted we tend to run kind of low thanks to Tymna
trying out deep-sea kraken, seemed like he might be good. doesn't mess up the curve too much since he's relatively cheap, and hits hard on his own without any pump effects. if he works out i try nihilith as well.
Good call on the Inkfathom Witch, she looks interesting, and could make the gang hit a lot harder. I'm gonna try to find a place for her, and maybe for Drana, liberator of malakir as well. The latter seems a little slow, and she takes up the spot in the curve that should have gone to Tymna the Weaver, but still worth trying out as the deck is in its infancy.
I thought about skulk effects, but the problem was that there was a lot of other good evasion already, and skulk gets worse when the creatures are actually worth hitting people with. So i left it out in the end.
I like Mirror Entity in here as a possible win condition. Also some minor tribal synergies. A lot of tutors our not budget but I would consider adding in anything that makes getting to Coastal Piracy or Bident of Thassa more consistent. Faith's Reward is a possible answer to Supreme Verdict. Also I don't know how your group feels about mass LD but having some options to reset lands once you have a board presence built up could be good. I assume Serra Ascendant is left out for budget reasons?
I like Mirror Entity in here as a possible win condition. Also some minor tribal synergies. A lot of tutors our not budget but I would consider adding in anything that makes getting to Coastal Piracy or Bident of Thassa more consistent. Faith's Reward is a possible answer to Supreme Verdict. Also I don't know how your group feels about mass LD but having some options to reset lands once you have a board presence built up could be good. I assume Serra Ascendant is left out for budget reasons?
Hard to say without playing the deck but I would be critical of 3 or more mana. Drawing 4+ cards a turn isn't as good when you can only cast 2 spells. Cards that I thought could go on first glance were Marang River Prowler, Aqueous Form and Spear of Heliod.
Hard to say without playing the deck but I would be critical of 3 or more mana. Drawing 4+ cards a turn isn't as good when you can only cast 2 spells. Cards that I thought could go on first glance were Marang River Prowler, Aqueous Form and Spear of Heliod.
Good call, I kept looking at Marang River Prowler getting all excited about recursion, but in practice never even cast him unless I'm bored as hell. I liked Aqueous Form as a way to give Tymna the Weaver or Ishai evasion so that they could get in there and gain life or do command damage. But Ishai already flies so thats probably fine.
I'm finding that unlike Edric, Tymna can't rely on raw card-drawing power to chain time walks, especially since I only run 2 of them. So instead I'm using the pump cards and playing a slower game. Having decent success, though wraths really suck. Ishai gives us something to do after a wrath though, he serves as kind of plan B.
More wrath protection, and needed something so I wouldn't have to discard constantly. Cut a nonland since I felt I was a little low on lands and didn't want to remove colored sources.
Considering adding Teferi's veil as additional wrath protection, seems like sweet tech. Anyone used it before? Also considering Notorious Throng, but not sure I'll have enough rogues... if only it triggered on spirits
Considering adding Teferi's veil as additional wrath protection, seems like sweet tech. Anyone used it before? Also considering Notorious Throng, but not sure I'll have enough rogues... if only it triggered on spirits
I think that's a good call, lots of people had success with the card in Edric. Ghostway type cards is another option to consider.
Been pretty happy with the deck lately, it's been consistently making an impact at tables and almost always threatens to win or else actually does so. That said i'm still getting the hang of how to play it and there is a lot of room for testing and improvement.
Biggest change is the addition of Notorious Throng and the swapping in of some extra rogues to make sure I have them when I need them. Also my playgroup complained more than once about cyclonic rift so i figured i should cut it. After all, their casualness is the reason i can play janky decks like this so i'm willing to bow to their will when I'm seen as the offending party. Silumgar's command seemed way too slow even if did have the option of being removal, and polymorphist's jest was basically just a bad fog anyway. So i figure Teferi's veil will be better protection for my dweebs and Dawn charm is a fog that can save a creature if it needs to. Anther addition of note is Hushwing gryff; i don't want the deck to be all hatebears, but this one has flash so i can drop it in after keeping counterspell mana up, and it just shuts down some decks completely. Considering finding room for aven mindcensor too if i ever get a copy. Last, Inkfathom Witch and Signal Pest are in to help make the damage bigger.
I don't see what the advantage of playing Tymna over Edric, Spymaster of Trest. It's cool if you want to play Tymna, but I recommend another way aside from "one drops matter"
The reason Edric works is because he snowballs and allows you to draw 5+ cards each turn (without losing life).
If you are looking for less critical feedback I recommend you run the recently spoiled Slither Blade. Seems like an auto include for sure.
Yeah I agree Edric is better, just felt like building Tymna in that style. She's not as powerful, but I'm not in a particularly cutthroat meta, so I figure even if I push her hard her inherent limitations will stop her from ever being too oppressive for my playgroup.
If you like Curiosity then how about Mask of Memory and Mask of Riddles? They're sort of like mini-budget swords. Also, because of the routine life payments and cheap spells I think Basilica Screecher is a really slick inclusion. Protect that one when it comes time to cut cards. Budget ramp is hard to come by in Esper, but since you're already running so many 1 drops you might be able to support Springleaf Drum and Paradise Mantle. Terrible shame that Will-o'-the-Wisp is almost, but not quite, the perfect creature for this deck. Is that combination of abilities good enough that Fog of Gnats is worth a shot?
Edit: Pride of the Clouds and Soulcatcher could provide some cheap beats here. You already run a lot of spirits and could pretty easily run a few more by shifting around some of the rank-and-file creatures, so any chance of a Tallowisp/Thief of Hope spiritcraft thing making its way into the deck?
Thanks for the suggestions Hunding! I'm actually thinking of cutting Curiosity as it just doesn't do much all things considered. But the masks might be worthwhile, I'll give them a whirl. Also thinking of Smuggler's Copter (vehicles are just a weird version of equipment, right?)
Basilica Screecher has been pretty sweet for me so far, as a single activation will offset Tymna for the turn, and two will put a good bit ahead. I'm almost to the point where I kind of want to add Thrull Parasite just for the extort...
Might try out the Springleaf Drum, since it also functions as color fixing in a 3-color deck and i don't really have the big money mana base. Paradise Mantle seems worse since it won't work on creatures that just came in (the drum would effectively make the first 1-drop of the turn free, if I'm understanding it correctly).
I think Fog of Gnats costs too much, especially with BB and most boardwipes denying you the option to regenerate. Will-o'-the-Wisp would have been perfect tho, i even love the flavor text
Pride of the clouds is awesome! I'll have to try it out soon, it's too cool not too. Just wish you could forecast as an instant Soulcatcher on the other hand I think i'll leave out - 2cmc is more than i want to pay and she improves when things die, which usually means everything died, which means she's dead too.
Not sure about adding spirits as another tribe, as I'm trying to fit in rogues for Notorious Throng too... but Thief of Hope's soulshift and life drain would provide some resilience I guess? There's only one aura i'd tutor with Tallowisp, so making her work would require quite a shift.
Good points all around and you do indeed understand correctly how Springleaf Drum works. Paradise Mantleis worse, but it's sort-of kind-of a Birds of Paradise with echo in a deck with tons of 1-drops. A few other random things I was thinking about:
Signal Pest doesn't do combat damage itself without help so it shouldn't really be considered a "dweeb."
Swan Song, while being a cheap versatile hard counter, seems uncommonly bad in a deck that's trying to get in with 1/1 fliers.
Sygg, River Cutthroat is either awful or awesome here and I can't tell which. On the one hand you've got the tools to trigger him early and often, but on the other hand he wants you to send multiple dweebs at one opponent whereas Tymna wants you to share the love.
It may be a little slow for what you're trying to do here and maybe a little to cash-intensive for what it is, but Helm of Possession is at its best when you're trading up. The ultra-low budget version is Ritual of the Machine.
Cloud of Faeries does cost 2 mana upfront but since it gives you a refund (and very occasionally does some color fixing) it really helps you to vomit out a critical mass of dweebs on the early turns.
Dang thanks for the great finds Hunding! Point by point:
- Good call on Signal Pest, will move him to the 'making them worthwhile' section
- The Edric people said the same thing about Swan Song. Personally I haven't had any trouble with it thus far as I think Esper gives me more straight-out unblockables than Edric can use. And I can't think of anything that would be better at that mana cost (maybe Spell Pierce?). I'll keep an eye on it and if the swan token is consistently problematic I'll cut it.
- Creeping Tar Pit bizarrely costs $25???? But yes, would definitely be a good include.
- I'm also of two minds about Sygg, River Cutthroat. He's not an evasive dweeb himself, and he doesn't do more damage. 3 damage to someone isn't too hard to pull off though (I tend to have one dweeb suitedup that swings for a lot, with the rest sharing the love), and he is a rogue... worth testing but i think your suggestion of Military Intelligence would get in before him.
- Do not know how I missed Return to the Ranks. Definitely going in. And here I was thinking of adding Rally the Ancestors for the same effect.
- Military Intelligence seems solid, but might just not do enough to warrant a spot. That said it's definitely better than Curiosity since it's non-aura and I'm almost always attacking with more than 1 creature.
- Moorland Haunt should go in, good call. The mana base has been... ok so far, and I just splurged on some fancy lands so hopefully should be enough to make the room.
- Good call on Dauthi Horror, will make the swap
- Helm of Possession would be great, but I think it's off-theme in this context. At that mana cost I'd rather drop Bonehoard and swing for 10 than take their random fattie
- Cloud of Faeries is a good one too, worth testing out and I've always had a soft spot for the card.
So many things to add! And I've still got to find room for Mirror Entity and maybe some tutors... Anything you'd cut?
Whoah, missed the price tag on the pit. It's good enough for Modern and Legacy play, taps for U and was only printed once. Guess that's a pretty good recipe for a $25 card. Anyway, for cuts I'd look at
Unsubstantiate because it's only good when you're actively doing the Edric thing. I'm not so hot on counterspells that don't work when you're behind.
Insidious Will since I'm skeptical that this deck can hold up 4 mana consistently.
Call the Bloodline because it converts anything into a dweeb, but most of your cards are dweebs anyway.
Some other stuff? I don't know, there are too many good cards for this type of deck.
There are probably enough cards out there to make a 3 or 4 color Tymna/Someone Else, the Synergizer deck where all the nonland cards are 1 drop evasive creatures. I'm not saying you should do that here, but it's got me thinkin...
Yeah you make some good points. I've actually been thinking I want to add a dweeb if anything, most Edric lists run upwards of 30 or so and I've only got 27. Though with Tymna creatures beyond the number of opponents is just redundant except when it comes to damage, so it might be ok to cut one or two.
Unsubstantiate is pretty weak, just thought it would give me an extra answer to problem creatures. But it hasn't to be honest. I don't really want to go down any counters, but I'm sure I can find a better counterspell to replace it with. Preferably low cmc, because you're right about Insidious will on that count. Maybe Muddle the Mixture as a second Negate that stops wraths and transmutes for Empyrial Armor/Hushwing Gryff/Immortal Servitude.
Call the Bloodline has been good for me so far, mostly because of the lifelink. There may be better ways to gain life though.
Haha not sure I'd go ALL evasive 1 drops, but if you build a list I'd love to see it
Vault Skirge gains life - not sure if I like dropping Typhoid Rats for this, since deathtouch is a nice deterrent, but I figure I'll go all-in on the aggro plan
And there you have it, thanks for reading, feedback welcome!
PS i know there are more cards added than removed - can't for the life of me figure out what i've overlooked. current decklist should match irl deck though.
3 Tymna the Weaver
4 Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker
Dweebs
1 Hypnotic Siren
1 Slither Blade
1 Topplegeist
1 Triton Shorestalker
1 Prickly Boggart
1 Soltari Footsoldier
1 Gudul Lurker
1 Tormented Soul
1 Mausoleum Wanderer
1 Judge's Familiar
1 WingCrafter
1 Hope of Ghirapur
2 Vault Skirge
2 Inkfathom Infiltrator
2 Soltari Trooper
2 Selfless Spirit
2 invisible stalker
2 Stratus Dancer
2 basilica screecher
2 Dimir Infiltrator
2 Looter il-Kor
2 Rattlechains
3 Soltari Champion
3 Bygone Bishop
3 Hushwing Gryff
9 Deep-Sea Kraken
1 Signal Pest
2 Empyrial Plate
2 Inkfathom Witch
2 Throne of the God-Pharaoh
3 Spear of Heliod
3 Empyrial Armor
4 Coastal Piracy
4 Bident of Thassa
4 Bonehoard
4 Nighthowler
5 Exquisite Blood
5 Dictate of Heliod
Protection
1 Swan Song
2 Counterspell
2 Muddle the Mixture
2 Arcane Denial
2 Disdainful Stroke
2 Negate
2 Teferi's Veil
3 Dissolve
3 Dissipate
3 Disallow
3 Dromar's Charm
4 Insidious Will
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Path to Exile
3 Banishing Light
3 Anguished Unmaking
4 Dusk // Dawn
5 Fell the Mighty
Misc. GoodStuff
1 Curiosity
2 Call the Bloodline
2x Return to the Ranks
2 Dawn Charm
3 Immortal Servitude
4 Reins of Power
4 Notorious Throng
6 Part the Waterveil
9 Temporal Trespass
Mana Sources
1 Springleaf Drum
0 Reliquary Tower
34 other assorted lands
When Tymna the Weaver was first printed, there was some speculation as to whether she could compete with Edric. Her ability is a little less strong for two reasons: (1) it runs off of how many players you hit, not how many creatures you hit with. This means that you can really only draw a maximum of 3-4 extra cards with her, and that the damage you dish out won't be focused, but has to be spread out among a bunch of different 40-life players. (2) her ability costs life; spending 3-4 life a turn to draw cards will make your life total drop unhappily fast, so when other people decide they're tired of being pinged they won't have too hard a time finishing you off.
Of course, the advantage she has is her colors, and her ability to par with other generals. There have already been some cool builds pairing her with kondo and tana, for example. I opted to pair her with Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker, because I felt that blue was indispensable, since countermagic is to my mind a central part of the strategy. Plus, with blue you have more access to creatures that are evasive in themselves, which means you don't have to rely on Kondo's ability to get them through (which really only gives them pseudo-flying, and even then only if they stay small) or Tana's go-wide strategy. The absence of green does make the deck less explosive though, and denies us access to a number of good utility cards. I suppose I could have chosen one of the UG partners but I felt 4 colors would be too unreliable for a deck with a pretty budget manabase that wants to be playing little guys on early turns consistently.
So much for the generals, on to the deck itself. Basically it's a bunch of evasive dweebs, together with some cards to pump them up and a decent amount of countermagic to protect them. The idea is to play them, attack, and start drawing a ton of cards. By turn 3 or 4, the deck is often drawing 3-4 cards a turn. From there we just wittle down various life totals and try to develop towards a point where we can alpha strike the most threatening player. Once they're gone, go for the next biggest threat and try it again. Since Tymna wants you to attack everyone and also hurts you yourself, the table's life totals tend to fall rather quickly. I actually only rarely play Ishai; he's a real beast but he draws all the removal and rarely sticks (for some reason no one tries to kill Tymna, but even if they did, you can benefit from her the turn she drops, so it would only slow us down a little). I've tried to offset the life she costs us with a couple life-link cards, but it's still a bit dicey sometimes, might be worth including some evasive life-linkers.
The list is pretty budget as of now, though feel free to suggest non-budget cards. I'm mostly looking for help cutting cards and suggestions as to better ways to get the dweebs to go lethal faster. I'm thinking of cutting stuff like Ninja of the Deep Hours and Harbinger of the Tides, since they don't have evasion and their bodies are mostly useless - Ninja ends up just being a 2-mana bounce a creature draw a card. Also thinking of adding a couple more extra-turn effects as well as maybe Jazal Goldmane or Mirror Entity. Ideally they wouldn't cost too much mana, since I'd like to be able to hold counterspell mana up while going for the kill. Also helpful would be more ways to gain life or defend against an opposing creature-horde.
Anyway, thanks for reading all this and any suggestions/comments are welcome.
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
out
- harbinger of tides
- mistblade shinobi
- ninja of the deep hours
- pongify
- suntail hawk
- doomed traveler
- wharf infiltrator
- rootwater thief
- haunted dead
- doom blade
in
- invisible stalker
- anguished unmaking
- basilica screecher
- hope of ghirapur
- silumgar's command
- temporal trespass
- unsubstantiate
- nighthowler
- empyrial armor
- deep-sea kraken
took out some ETB creatures and the ninjas since they were pretty underwhelming and replaced them with better evasion creatures, removal/counters. also cut back on the little dweebs to add more pump effects. empyrial plate and bonehoard were proving to be pretty powerful, so i figured i'd drop in the aura versions of the same. basilica screecher is pretty jank, but he's evasive and extort can score us some life - as noted we tend to run kind of low thanks to Tymna
trying out deep-sea kraken, seemed like he might be good. doesn't mess up the curve too much since he's relatively cheap, and hits hard on his own without any pump effects. if he works out i try nihilith as well.
as always any input welcome
ps haven't updated OP yet but will sometime soon
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
I thought about skulk effects, but the problem was that there was a lot of other good evasion already, and skulk gets worse when the creatures are actually worth hitting people with. So i left it out in the end.
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
I like the mirror entity idea, and i have one lying around so it wouldn't be hard to dig up. Also have enlightened tutor and mystical tutor in other decks, but could bring them in as tools for picking up coastal piracy or temporal trespass. Faith's Reward seems too situational, but the deck is still a baby, so maybe I'll try it out and see.
mass LD is out, though i agree it would be strong.
any ideas about cuts?
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
Good call, I kept looking at Marang River Prowler getting all excited about recursion, but in practice never even cast him unless I'm bored as hell. I liked Aqueous Form as a way to give Tymna the Weaver or Ishai evasion so that they could get in there and gain life or do command damage. But Ishai already flies so thats probably fine.
I'm finding that unlike Edric, Tymna can't rely on raw card-drawing power to chain time walks, especially since I only run 2 of them. So instead I'm using the pump cards and playing a slower game. Having decent success, though wraths really suck. Ishai gives us something to do after a wrath though, he serves as kind of plan B.
Update:
Out:
- Marang River Prowler
- Aqueous Form
In:
+ Selfless Spirit
+ Reliquary Tower
More wrath protection, and needed something so I wouldn't have to discard constantly. Cut a nonland since I felt I was a little low on lands and didn't want to remove colored sources.
Considering adding Teferi's veil as additional wrath protection, seems like sweet tech. Anyone used it before? Also considering Notorious Throng, but not sure I'll have enough rogues... if only it triggered on spirits
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
Recent changes:
Out
- Pharika's Chosen
- Dauthi Horror
- Thada Adel, Acquisitor
- Silumgar's Command
- Doom Blade
- Cyclonic Rift
- Polymorphist's Jest
- Lantern Kami
In
- Prickly Boggart
- Notorious Throng
- Mothdust Changeling
- Hushwing Gryff
- Inkfathom Witch
- Teferi's Veil
- Dawn Charm
- Signal Pest
Biggest change is the addition of Notorious Throng and the swapping in of some extra rogues to make sure I have them when I need them. Also my playgroup complained more than once about cyclonic rift so i figured i should cut it. After all, their casualness is the reason i can play janky decks like this so i'm willing to bow to their will when I'm seen as the offending party. Silumgar's command seemed way too slow even if did have the option of being removal, and polymorphist's jest was basically just a bad fog anyway. So i figure Teferi's veil will be better protection for my dweebs and Dawn charm is a fog that can save a creature if it needs to. Anther addition of note is Hushwing gryff; i don't want the deck to be all hatebears, but this one has flash so i can drop it in after keeping counterspell mana up, and it just shuts down some decks completely. Considering finding room for aven mindcensor too if i ever get a copy. Last, Inkfathom Witch and Signal Pest are in to help make the damage bigger.
on the chopping block next: Reins of Power, Curiosity
looking to add: one more extra turn card (4 seems like the right number, i can just feel it), Mirror Entity, Slither Blade, aven mindcensor, rally the ancestors, Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
that's all, thanks for reading, any comments or suggestions welcome!
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
The reason Edric works is because he snowballs and allows you to draw 5+ cards each turn (without losing life).
If you are looking for less critical feedback I recommend you run the recently spoiled Slither Blade. Seems like an auto include for sure.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Slither Blade is definitely going in
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
Edit: Pride of the Clouds and Soulcatcher could provide some cheap beats here. You already run a lot of spirits and could pretty easily run a few more by shifting around some of the rank-and-file creatures, so any chance of a Tallowisp/Thief of Hope spiritcraft thing making its way into the deck?
Basilica Screecher has been pretty sweet for me so far, as a single activation will offset Tymna for the turn, and two will put a good bit ahead. I'm almost to the point where I kind of want to add Thrull Parasite just for the extort...
Might try out the Springleaf Drum, since it also functions as color fixing in a 3-color deck and i don't really have the big money mana base. Paradise Mantle seems worse since it won't work on creatures that just came in (the drum would effectively make the first 1-drop of the turn free, if I'm understanding it correctly).
I think Fog of Gnats costs too much, especially with BB and most boardwipes denying you the option to regenerate. Will-o'-the-Wisp would have been perfect tho, i even love the flavor text
Pride of the clouds is awesome! I'll have to try it out soon, it's too cool not too. Just wish you could forecast as an instant
Not sure about adding spirits as another tribe, as I'm trying to fit in rogues for Notorious Throng too... but Thief of Hope's soulshift and life drain would provide some resilience I guess? There's only one aura i'd tutor with Tallowisp, so making her work would require quite a shift.
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
- Good call on Signal Pest, will move him to the 'making them worthwhile' section
- The Edric people said the same thing about Swan Song. Personally I haven't had any trouble with it thus far as I think Esper gives me more straight-out unblockables than Edric can use. And I can't think of anything that would be better at that mana cost (maybe Spell Pierce?). I'll keep an eye on it and if the swan token is consistently problematic I'll cut it.
- Creeping Tar Pit bizarrely costs $25???? But yes, would definitely be a good include.
- I'm also of two minds about Sygg, River Cutthroat. He's not an evasive dweeb himself, and he doesn't do more damage. 3 damage to someone isn't too hard to pull off though (I tend to have one dweeb suited up that swings for a lot, with the rest sharing the love), and he is a rogue... worth testing but i think your suggestion of Military Intelligence would get in before him.
- Do not know how I missed Return to the Ranks. Definitely going in. And here I was thinking of adding Rally the Ancestors for the same effect.
- Military Intelligence seems solid, but might just not do enough to warrant a spot. That said it's definitely better than Curiosity since it's non-aura and I'm almost always attacking with more than 1 creature.
- Moorland Haunt should go in, good call. The mana base has been... ok so far, and I just splurged on some fancy lands so hopefully should be enough to make the room.
- Good call on Dauthi Horror, will make the swap
- Helm of Possession would be great, but I think it's off-theme in this context. At that mana cost I'd rather drop Bonehoard and swing for 10 than take their random fattie
- Cloud of Faeries is a good one too, worth testing out and I've always had a soft spot for the card.
So many things to add! And I've still got to find room for Mirror Entity and maybe some tutors... Anything you'd cut?
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
- Typhoid Rats just because I think you can shave a dweeb. At least upgrade this to Ruthless Ripper.
- Unsubstantiate because it's only good when you're actively doing the Edric thing. I'm not so hot on counterspells that don't work when you're behind.
- Insidious Will since I'm skeptical that this deck can hold up 4 mana consistently.
- Call the Bloodline because it converts anything into a dweeb, but most of your cards are dweebs anyway.
- Some other stuff? I don't know, there are too many good cards for this type of deck.
There are probably enough cards out there to make a 3 or 4 color Tymna/Someone Else, the Synergizer deck where all the nonland cards are 1 drop evasive creatures. I'm not saying you should do that here, but it's got me thinkin...Unsubstantiate is pretty weak, just thought it would give me an extra answer to problem creatures. But it hasn't to be honest. I don't really want to go down any counters, but I'm sure I can find a better counterspell to replace it with. Preferably low cmc, because you're right about Insidious will on that count. Maybe Muddle the Mixture as a second Negate that stops wraths and transmutes for Empyrial Armor/Hushwing Gryff/Immortal Servitude.
Call the Bloodline has been good for me so far, mostly because of the lifelink. There may be better ways to gain life though.
Haha not sure I'd go ALL evasive 1 drops, but if you build a list I'd love to see it
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
In
- Dusk//Dawn
- Return to the Ranks
- Springleaf Drum
- Muddle the Mixture
- Disallow
- Exquisite Blood
- Throne of the God-Pharaoh
- Vault Skirge
- Slither Blade
- Path to Exile
Out
- Unsubstantiate
- Noble Purpose
- Prophetic Prism
- Cloudfin Raptor
- Mothdust Changeling
- Soltari Trooper
- Bygone Bishop
- Typhoid Rats
- Murderous Cut
With Dusk//Dawn and Return to the Ranks we now have 3 cards that will recover from a wrath if it gets through the counterspells
Exquisite Blood is just better than Noble Purpose in a deck where most of the damage you deal is to players
Springleaf Drum is better than Prophetic Prism
Slither Blade is better than Mothdust Changeling, who was really just there to be a rogue
Vault Skirge gains life - not sure if I like dropping Typhoid Rats for this, since deathtouch is a nice deterrent, but I figure I'll go all-in on the aggro plan
Path to Exile is better than Murderous Cut
Trying out Throne of the God-Pharaoh, should be good
Disallow and Muddle the Mixture are better than Unsubstantiate. Bygone Bishop is better as a counterspell, the deck doesn't want to draw cards via investigate unless it's losing real bad
And there you have it, thanks for reading, feedback welcome!
PS i know there are more cards added than removed - can't for the life of me figure out what i've overlooked. current decklist should match irl deck though.
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash