MTG Salvation

When Prophet of Kruphix was banned and the mulligan rules were changed Kruphix Goodstuff took a major blow because the mana generating ability and deck speed slowed Seedborn Muse became a very weak link. Yidris' ability to cascade while it can be erratic gives free cards. The addition of black opens up plenty of card search to be surgical where needed. Sorin Markov makes all decks stronger. Red in this deck is minimal to keep casting efficiency high. The original deck had eldrazi but this version took it further. The colorless mana keeps the deck efficient to cast and the annihilator mechanic is strong even if yout oppoent is only discarding lands.

The first card you search for is not Kruphix but Tempt with Discovery which gets you Reliquary Tower and Rogue's Passage the third land is your choice but Blighted Woodland is probably the strongest play as it pulls two additional lands from you deck. The Passage allows you to activate Yidris while the Tower allows you to grow your hand with the insane card draw this deck has. There are only 13 card draw opportunities (outside of card or land search) but they either give you three or more cards or can be used over multiple turns.

Xenegoa and the Dragon Throne are game winners. when coupled with Thassa or the Passage odds are it will take two hits for to win by commander damage keeping Oloro decks at bay. There are also cards that grow like Consuming Aberration. If you can get them to 15 power and then on the throne it is game over. This deck is meant to grind and should be used in such a format. There are no combo wins which may help but putting the focus on the combo deck while you fly under the radar until you are set up.

The deck is strong on indestructible creatures This limits the board wipes that can be used against you. There is also a small package of recursion or cards that when they enter or exit the battlefield bring out more cards. Predator Ooze is sneaky good for an indestructible. just keep him attacking away and watch him frow from turn to turn. Rite of Replication was included in this deck with the ooze in mind. Imagine six of them coming after a person.

The deck is not tweaked yet though I have spent a lot of time making the card cuts to where it is now. Still my knowledge of cards is not perfect and I feel card selection could be improved so any and all suggestions are welcome.


Thank You in advance for your comments.

Im sure you will tell me that you've never had mana problems... but 30 lands and very few ramp spells is not gonna work in a deck with multiple 10 drops. I would add 8 lands. Honestly, I would also add around 10 artifact ramp spells all in the 1-2 mana cost range.

I also believe that Yidris is build around or bust. Why not run Thrasios, Triton Hero and Vial Smasher the Fierce? And if youre willing to go back to simic try Thrasios and Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix.

I am all for adding mana to the deck but it leaves the question what do I cut to add them in. Any Ideas. On top of the 30 lands there are 15 mana ramp, card search, and hand quality cards raising the percentage of the deck to 45% cards that can pull mana.

In your opinion how would you build around Ydris? My thoughts were if you make Ydris unblockable you get to cascade. I also think the advantage of ydris is just free cards most importantly their casting cost is saved for the cost. If you run a mana heavy deck you get more bigger cards out faster and less chance of hitting a cheap card which does not give you an advantage. In his own right he is similar to Kruphix but less efficient. Instead of counting on the Prophet to get you your mana you build toward Kruphix and have Ydris to suppliment the strategy.Scroll Rack and the Top help manipulate the cascade they also double to help pull mana. It would be nice to add a fetch land to shuffle down but again I am not sure what to cut for them and then is one or two fetch lands worth it in the deck? Tempt with Discovery is an efficient search with any black card search spell.

1) ramps mana: Since it grabs any land people cant stay away from grabbing their own land and once one opponent chooses to grab a land the rest follow. IF you choose Blighted Woodland it can net an additional land

2) Unblockables Rogue's Passage it creates the ability to make Ydris unblockable. Thassa, God of the Sea is better but he is not a necessary pull to make the deck work with Tempt with Discovery.

3) Unlimited Hand Size: Kruphix is still a desire able pull for the mana storage but you can benefit from a large hand early.

4) Shock Lands: if you are short on a color of mana the shock lands will get you the color you need.

The partner is intriguing but am wondering if a black white partner to pair with a green blue partner would be better. Black is kept for card search and there are plenty of white cards to splash most notably Avacyn, Angel of Hope and Serra Avatar but you would lose some mana advantage gained from Ydris.

There are plenty of bad cards you could cut from:

_Bane of Bala Ged (you are not playing maelstrom wanderer as your commander, you can't give him haste and it won't grant you any value if it gets removed inmediately).
_Giant Adephage, big dumb creatures are bad.
_It that betrays, you have enough big stuff.
_Kozilek's Channeler, terrible card imo.
_Lorescale Coatl, your commander cascades, it doesn't draw you cards like Prime Speaker Zegana does...
_Pathrazer of Ulamog, same category "big dumb creature"
_Predator Ooze, GGG hurts your mana base so much, and for little value
_Seedguide Ash
_Xathrid Gorgon, you better run a creature that removes blockers instead of making them block your Yidris...

_Covenant of Minds, there is plenty of better card draw.
_Otherworld Atlas, there are better options
_Fated Return, BBB and high mana cost for a single reanimation effect is generally bad.
_Bow of Nylea, fits more in tokken/winnie strategies and not in a deck with a ton of big creatures...
_Bottled Cloister, a friend used to run this and I always smiled when someone destroyed it.
_Dissipation Field, you are not running a prison deck
_Dictate of Erebos, there is no synergy with any of the other cards, its better in other decks like Meren of Clan Nel Toth

There are plenty of lands you could add, painlands, tri-lands, checklands, filter lands and I wouldn't run less than 40 with your high mana curve.

OK First round of cuts I am sllow to remove but am still thinking about the rest

Out Kozilek's Channeler---> in Sol Ring Comments: Back to original Ring
Out Dissipation Field -----> in Simic Growth Chamber Comments: Slow but 2 mana in 1 land
Out Fated Return -----> in Gruul Turf Comments: Your right about casting requirements on Return Land choice lame as Growth chamber.
Our Bow of Nylea -----> in Swamp Losing a static deathtouch ability hurts for removal from the bow.

I think of Ydris as a bonus ability with a deck that has multiple utilities as opposed to a must use. There are plenty of threats that can be used against your opponents. If this is not the right mentality please explain how yu see it. SO I haven't maximizes it. If I did artful dodge Eternal Witness Deadeye Navigator would be making this deck list. Thoughts...

Xathrid Gorgon is actually reusable commander hate to take out activated abilities the deathtouch is a nice defensive threat too.WHat am I missing that weakens it's value?

Seedguide ash pulls three forests including the shocklands I included. granted he has to die for it to happen but I will happily block with him or attack into a big body to make it happen. I have encountered people exiling him. I was thinking this is a waste of a card on their part. Do you agree or is putting three lands on the battlefield that strong?

Bottled Cloister In looking at this card again if the artifact gets destroyed on an opponents hand your cards stay in exile is that correct? If I can get it back on the field again do I get my hand back? I owuldnt want to lose card draw each turn is there a better card that does this?

Bane of Bala Ged I don't understand if this card is so good it will be instantly removed why Pathrazer of Ulamog is a big dumb creature. Bala essentially has Annihilator 2 while the pathrazor has Annihilator 3 and needs multiple creatures to block it can you explain the difference so I can learn?

Thanks for investing the time so that I can become better in deck building and playing. I do appreciate it

I agree with Lexandur except in one case. Bow of Nylea is amazing with Yidris because of the interaction between trample and deathtouch. With this combination of keywords you can assign 1 damage to the blocking creature and trample over for the rest. Anyone blocking Yidris would have to quintuple block to prevent his trigger that turn.

So I'm not opposed to unblockable Yidris. I like that idea and there isn't anything wrong with it. Here are a few points on my style of Yidris. I do have the same general goal as you which is to cast fatties so we're on the same page there. I just think you need a good ramp package to cast fatties fast enough.

1.) First of all, Tempt with Discovery is only good because your opponents have no discipline. The correct play against that card is to NOT take the offer. If no one takes the offer then it doesn't do much of anything. If people in your group don't get this or they dont care, then great. Assuming everyone takes the offer, the only problem with that card is that it doesn't ramp INTO Yidris, and costs 4 on your curve which is awkward if you want to focus on the commander. BUT! I will admit that 4 mana for any ~3 lands is pretty amazing if they let you get Coffers and Urborg each time. Pretty OP.

2.) Two drop ramp spells are awesome because they give you a turn 3 Yidris. This is the crux of my deck. Ramp on turn 2, cast the commander turn 3, and then use all my remaining ramp to get ahead on mana and cards turn 4. It's fairly easy to attack and get the cascade trigger on turn 4. Yidris isn't small and trample helps. Then you get to give cards like Cultivate cascade which actually creates a good amount or card advantage.

3.) Cheating mana can be a really sweet way to enable BIG cascades earlier in the game. In particular delve is really good here. Treasure Cruise, Dig Through Time, Tasigur, the Golden Fang, Murderous Cut are some examples of cards that can give you good value for small amounts of mana. Give them cascade and you're really doing it, this is unique to Yidris.

4.) Expropriate. This card is stupid amazing in every way, its my favorite thing to cascade from. You always vote first and I always vote for time (you cant really vote for money as you already control all your own permanents right?) the correct play for you opponents is to vote for money but... every extra vote for time is amazing. Maybe this card isn't appropriate for you or your group but I mentioned it because its my favorite.

• 1 Sol Ring
  
• 2 Dimir Signet
  
• 2 Izzet Signet
  
• 2 Rakdos Signet
  
• 2 Simic Signet
  
• 2 Golgari Signet
  
• 2 Gruul Signet
  
• 2 Talisman of Dominance
  
• 2 Talisman of Indulgence
  
• 2 Talisman of Impulse
  
• 2 Farseek
  
• 2 Nature's Lore
  
• 2 Three Visits
  

Quote from XeroxedFool »

I agree with Lexandur except in one case. Bow of Nylea is amazing with Yidris because of the interaction between trample and deathtouch. With this combination of keywords you can assign 1 damage to the blocking creature and trample over for the rest. Anyone blocking Yidris would have to quintuple block to prevent his trigger that turn.

So I'm not opposed to unblockable Yidris. I like that idea and there isn't anything wrong with it. Here are a few points on my style of Yidris. I do have the same general goal as you which is to cast fatties so we're on the same page there. I just think you need a good ramp package to cast fatties fast enough.

1.) First of all, Tempt with Discovery is only good because your opponents have no discipline. The correct play against that card is to NOT take the offer. If no one takes the offer then it doesn't do much of anything. If people in your group don't get this or they dont care, then great. Assuming everyone takes the offer, the only problem with that card is that it doesn't ramp INTO Yidris, and costs 4 on your curve which is awkward if you want to focus on the commander. BUT! I will admit that 4 mana for any ~3 lands is pretty amazing if they let you get Coffers and Urborg each time. Pretty OP.

2.) Two drop ramp spells are awesome because they give you a turn 3 Yidris. This is the crux of my deck. Ramp on turn 2, cast the commander turn 3, and then use all my remaining ramp to get ahead on mana and cards turn 4. It's fairly easy to attack and get the cascade trigger on turn 4. Yidris isn't small and trample helps. Then you get to give cards like Cultivate cascade which actually creates a good amount or card advantage.

3.) Cheating mana can be a really sweet way to enable BIG cascades earlier in the game. In particular delve is really good here. Treasure Cruise, Dig Through Time, Tasigur, the Golden Fang, Murderous Cut are some examples of cards that can give you good value for small amounts of mana. Give them cascade and you're really doing it, this is unique to Yidris.

4.) Expropriate. This card is stupid amazing in every way, its my favorite thing to cascade from. You always vote first and I always vote for time (you cant really vote for money as you already control all your own permanents right?) the correct play for you opponents is to vote for money but... every extra vote for time is amazing. Maybe this card isn't appropriate for you or your group but I mentioned it because its my favorite.

• 1 Sol Ring
  
• 2 Dimir Signet
  
• 2 Izzet Signet
  
• 2 Rakdos Signet
  
• 2 Simic Signet
  
• 2 Golgari Signet
  
• 2 Gruul Signet
  
• 2 Talisman of Dominance
  
• 2 Talisman of Indulgence
  
• 2 Talisman of Impulse
  
• 2 Farseek
  
• 2 Nature's Lore
  
• 2 Three Visits
  

I need to take time this evening to review is all and make revisions to my deck. This is good stuff. Couple of questions before I start.

1) We just use the commander banned list Is expropriate legal?

2) are you relying on ydris to bypass your lands and just cast cards and if you draw a land it is no big deal? I would be worried about mana flood in your hand?

Thanks XeroxedFool

Creatures usually don't last for long period of times, thats why ETB creatures are way better in commander (such as Acidic Slime, Vorinclex, Terastodon, Necrataal). Bane of bala ged should attack at least twice to get some decent value of it, but you can't guaranteed that; but with stuff like Bane of Progress you can have inmediate value regardless it eats removal or not.

If bottle cloister gets removed you won't get back your hand, hence a bad card. Phyrexian Arena shines above everything else. Fact or Fiction is a skill intesive-fun card, Deep Analysis is good because you can cascade for 4 even if you cast it from it's flashback cost, "evoke" creatures are amazing since you cascade with their total mana cost but you get to pay a fraction of it (Mulldrifter, Shriekmaw).

Tempt with Discovery is decent in a high mana curve deck, you can fetch Temple of the False God or Ancient Tomb with it, if someone is tempted to fetch a land then you can get an amazing combo: Urborg + Cabal Coffers.
One card I love to use is Reap and Sow, it fetches my temple of false god and destroys that annoying Maze of Ith

I run all the talismans, signets, fellwar stone, sol ring, mana vault, mana crypt with 37 lands (my curve is much much lower).

@XeroxedFool

I think you have to assign enough damage equal to the toughness of the blocking creature and then you trample the rest.

With Trample + Deathtouch you only need 1 damage to count as enough to kill the blocking creature. Its a strange ruling but its real.




Yes Expropriate is legal.

Drawing a land is not a huge deal in the late game because:

A.) I always want to hit my land drops

B.) I try to build enough card draw into my decks so that I'm never in pure topdeck mode.

Nothing I do is perfect, not claming that at all, but I try and mitigate against mana flood/screw in my decks.

Here's a list I am running for Yidris right now
I personally use Tempt With Discovery to grab Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and Cabal Coffers as it gives me all the extra mana I need the best spells black has to offer Yidris is it's tutors to search for your threats or answers, casting them with cascade is just a bonus.

Even though Yidris wants to cast spells from hand, Future Sight has done wonders for me so I've thrown in Courser of Kruphix as well, combined with Maralen of the Mornsong you have a powerful card advantage engine with Yidris




I do however love the idea of
Soul of New Phyrexia for the deck as it is a mana sink and helps Yidris with combat.

Rude Awakening, Turnabout and Bear Bumbra make this deck better post combat. Aqueous Form, Alpha Authority, Traveler's Cloak and the like are great for getting through during combat. And cards like World at War, Relentless Assault etc are awesome to cascade into or cascade from.

Quote from Lexandur »

@XeroxedFool

I think you have to assign enough damage equal to the toughness of the blocking creature and then you trample the rest.

Yeah Basilisk Collar and Cunning Sparkmage was a thing in the Worldwake standard block was a thing because of deathtouch's ruling. A creature with touch only needs to assign a single point of Damage (combat or non) and the defending creature dies. First Strike and Deathtouch are really strong together as well because first strike hits with touch before regular combat damage takes place. It's great synergy.

Yeah I love pairing first strike/double strike with death touch I was disappointed Red did not get a God or an artifact that bestowed first strike on their creatures.

I ordered some cards Urbog and cabal coffers gonna give expropriate a run and we will see how things pan out with the next batch of cards that come in. For now Updated cuts

out Bottled Cloister ---> in Phyrexian Arena
out Giant Adephage ---> in Bow of Nylea
out Standstill ---> in harmonize this is temporary
out Xathrid Gorgon ---> in Rakdos Carnarium
out Covenant of Minds ---> in Simic Signet
out Soul of New Phyrexia ---> in Sol Ring
out Bane of Bala Ged ---> in Terastodon probably will cut this next round
out Mogis, God of Slaughter ---> Conjurer's Closet probably will cut this next round too Not sure if Closet is stronger than Mogis.

@TooGruuling2Tell

Great concept with Marelin How do you assure that she gets out consistantly. If someone is playing combo though Marelin could hand them the game. Since you are running Thassa and can make your creatures unblockable how about Inquisitor's Flail for some extra kick Grafted Exoskeleton would be brutal especially if you can get Xenegos out as well

I like these changes. It seems like a good direction to be going in.

Quote from redskingm »

@TooGruuling2Tell

Great concept with Marelin How do you assure that she gets out consistantly. If someone is playing combo though Marelin could hand them the game. Since you are running Thassa and can make your creatures unblockable how about Inquisitor's Flail for some extra kick Grafted Exoskeleton would be brutal especially if you can get Xenegos out as well

Tonight is gonna be the first night playing with that list, I've made a lot of changes to the deck since I've had it. Exoskeleton competes with the four drop spot though, which is where you want to be casting yidris

Quote from TooGruuling2Tell »

Quote from redskingm »

@TooGruuling2Tell

Great concept with Marelin How do you assure that she gets out consistantly. If someone is playing combo though Marelin could hand them the game. Since you are running Thassa and can make your creatures unblockable how about Inquisitor's Flail for some extra kick Grafted Exoskeleton would be brutal especially if you can get Xenegos out as well

Tonight is gonna be the first night playing with that list, I've made a lot of changes to the deck since I've had it. Exoskeleton competes with the four drop spot though, which is where you want to be casting yidris

@ tooGruuling2tell

Exoskeleton doesn't compete at 4 it is really a 6 drop. The grafted exoskeleton is a card that when it drops you become the target so you do not play it until you can play equip and attack all at once



how did your playtest go?

Well I had plenty of Mana, but would have been swinging into indestructible artifact creatures. I need some more unlockable, I originally had Whispersilk in the deck and it worked perfectly, but it made a lot of the other equipment useless if I wasn't drawing creatures. An early Fevered Visions sped things up quite a bit, never had a chance to have it, Future Sight and Maralen of the Mornsong at the same time. Some more hexproof would be nice as well.

• Reality Shift
  
• Blessed Reincarnation
  

Did a great job
Bituminous Blast was a dead card outside of it's cascade

Thassa is your ublockable answer really if you have the mana you can use him multiple times in a turn Card search may be the way to go Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Demonic Tutor, Increasing Ambition and Ring of Three Wishes help you get there faster. If you want to ass another option I like Artful Dodge for the flashback. If you do I think Eternal Witness should be added to get extra use out of it. Deadeye Navigator and Waterfront Bouncer might want to be added is you want multiple uses out of the witness.

Quote from redskingm »

Thassa is your ublockable answer really if you have the mana you can use him multiple times in a turn Card search may be the way to go Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Demonic Tutor, Increasing Ambition and Ring of Three Wishes help you get there faster. If you want to ass another option I like Artful Dodge for the flashback. If you do I think Eternal Witness should be added to get extra use out of it. Deadeye Navigator and Waterfront Bouncer might want to be added is you want multiple uses out of the witness.

I have access to Rogue's Passage more often than Thassa, but I also usually had Urborg and coffers out as well. One ruling we couldn't determine was how Fevered Visions interacted with Maralen of the Mornsong. To me it reads 5 Damage a turn if your hand size is over 4. Whether you draw off of visions or not.

I always considered Maralen of the Mornsong a bad card, you have to wait for the full table to tutor and only IF she didn't die, you get to tutor 1 card. And giving free tutors for combo decks is a no-no to me.

Curse of Predation screams token generation decks, Yidris? not so much...

And my problem with Primeval Bounty is simple, a big enchantment that does nothing the moment it hits the board, and to get enough value out of it you need to cast more than a few spells/lands.

Bloom Tender is great as a dork for over Kozilek's Channeler, however, the 5 cmc fits cascade better. Unless you're trying to get a card like Wheel of Fate in which case, Tender would be better for that.

Quote from Lexandur »

I always considered Maralen of the Mornsong a bad card, you have to wait for the full table to tutor and only IF she didn't die, you get to tutor 1 card. And giving free tutors for combo decks is a no-no to me.

Curse of Predation screams token generation decks, Yidris? not so much...

And my problem with Primeval Bounty is simple, a big enchantment that does nothing the moment it hits the board, and to get enough value out of it you need to cast more than a few spells/lands.

This point on Malaren is exactly correct. The correct play against this card is for the first person that tutors with it either wins or kills Malaren. I guess this card is the business when everyone takes tempting offers though.

Quote from XeroxedFool »

Quote from Lexandur »

I always considered Maralen of the Mornsong a bad card, you have to wait for the full table to tutor and only IF she didn't die, you get to tutor 1 card. And giving free tutors for combo decks is a no-no to me.

Curse of Predation screams token generation decks, Yidris? not so much...

And my problem with Primeval Bounty is simple, a big enchantment that does nothing the moment it hits the board, and to get enough value out of it you need to cast more than a few spells/lands.

This point on Malaren is exactly correct. The correct play against this card is for the first person that tutors with it either wins or kills Malaren. I guess this card is the business when everyone takes tempting offers though.

I actually won a round with Maralen's life loss. We don't have combo decks to worry about so it isn't to big of a concern. But if I were to take her out I'd prefer to have another creature to replace her

Thats very interesting. My meta has enough combo to where giving free tutors would be a poor choice. I personally stay away from obvious combos but finding the perfect card could easily win me games. The timely Cyclonic Rift or Living Death or Sword of Feast and Famine can really push a person into a commanding position. But obviously from our discussion here, which I've found very interesting, meta games can differ greatly. I feel that it is pretty safe to say that I cannot really provide too much insight on how to build a deck for your particular playgroup. I will leave you with this, Yidris is so much fun to play and I hope that you keep playing him.