Hello everyone, I wanted to share my current deck, feel free to comment on individual choices.
the plan A of the deck is to just close out by aggroing, plan B is to close out with a combo (of which there are plenty, including dumping +1/+1 tokens on inkmoth nexus).
i somewhat have a fetish of toolboxes in commander, this might justify the inclusion of claws of gix as a trinket mage/tolaria west target and mystical teachings to tutor for teferi and pact of negation
the most recent change is adding entomb and anger, with entomb having some upside with any graveyard recursion.
Wait.. Why am I not running Ruins of Oran-Rief in my build? I completely forgot that the card existed.
that was the very same reaction I had when i opened a foil one in a prize booster.
you obviously have more games under your belt with this archetype than I do (because i played like 3 games with the deck so far), would you care for an evaluation?
Wait.. Why am I not running Ruins of Oran-Rief in my build? I completely forgot that the card existed.
that was the very same reaction I had when i opened a foil one in a prize booster.
you obviously have more games under your belt with this archetype than I do (because i played like 3 games with the deck so far), would you care for an evaluation?
In looking at it, it's like playing an Opal Palace for your colorless creatures instead of for Marchesa.
However, unlike that land, you can activate it on creatures entering back from the graveyard. Basically, you can spend 1 to allow yourself to loop something once for free each turn cycle or just hold it as a response to removal. Pretty solid value for a land.
34 lands is running it pretty tight, especially considering that your mana curve is approximately the same as mine.
I think probable cuts are Mystical Teachings (not a lot of targets), entomb (only good at getting you 1-2 things here) and Primal Clay (stats not efficient with any of its modes)
In your OP you mentioned a weakness to enchantments... most people's go-to answer for enchantments in Marchesa is Aura Thief. It doesn't take care of everything but what it does effect is now yours bwahaha!
34 lands is running it pretty tight, especially considering that your mana curve is approximately the same as mine.
I think probable cuts are Mystical Teachings (not a lot of targets), entomb (only good at getting you 1-2 things here) and Primal Clay (stats not efficient with any of its modes)
turns out Primal Clay wasn't even in the deck, i was running 98 cards, so there's a swamp.
put in a second island in grim aruspex's spot. the creature does little on a empty board, and i think there are more elegant ways to draw in here already.
this puts me on 34 lands (they were 32 before).
before cutting teachings or entomb (which would mean to me to remove anger as well) i wish to see them in a game, so far it hasn't happened yet. they are on the chopping block as soon as they are not as much of use as i think they are.
some new arrivals:
kuldotha forgemaster -> whir of invention usually i need to tutor one artifact to the battlefield to close up a game, so i think it's an improvement, as it's easier to operate (the tap on kuldotha forgemaster is really slow). on this train of thought, i'm considering removing tezzeret the seeker for the same reasons now. moriok replica -> scarecrone the crone does a better job with recursion and with metallic mimic, and since they are both here to be abused with marchesa, the extra card drawn with the replica doesn't matter as much, but the activation cost does. crystalline crawler -> metalworker hopefully a upgrade.
a mox opal is coming in a mail order, so does a sunken ruins to help with the double blue costs. i already have a hangarback walker that i feel belongs here, but no idea really if it is better than another card in the list.
In your OP you mentioned a weakness to enchantments... most people's go-to answer for enchantments in Marchesa is Aura Thief. It doesn't take care of everything but what it does effect is now yours bwahaha!
i know, since i learned the existence of the card i kept an eye on enchantments running about in my meta...oblivion ring, auras, the occasional symmetrical effect..so far, not much i wouldn't just prefer to destroy. not being an artifact does make the card clunkier in here, so i'm wary about acquiring one.
so far i need to rely on the following regarding enchantments: cyclonic rift chaos warp ugin, the spirit dragon steel hellkite venser, shaper savant
i would love an artifact creature in grixis that killed enchantments, or even just artifacts (since i do run liquimetal coating after all).
I think Grim Haruspex would be fantastic in here. It gets even better with modular creatures, as you can literally draw a card with every sac ability at practically no cost. I once set up an early board with this and Arcbound Ravager and it was quite silly.
When I play Tezzeret the Seeker, I pretty rarely use his minus ability for more than x=2. 2 gets me all of the good enabler stuff. I figured this logic would be also true for Whir of Invention when I put it in. So far, this has been the case. Admittedly, he gets worse if you don't have good mana rocks to untap with his +1. If I have no real creatures on board but I have +1/+1 counter enablers, I just get a Baleful Strix the turn I play him. Also note that setting x=0 gets artifact lands.
Honestly, the more ways you have of getting ravager, the better, because that card has everything you need to make the deck work.
I think Grim Haruspex would be fantastic in here. It gets even better with modular creatures, as you can literally draw a card with every sac ability at practically no cost. I once set up an early board with this and Arcbound Ravager and it was quite silly.
When I play Tezzeret the Seeker, I pretty rarely use his minus ability for more than x=2. 2 gets me all of the good enabler stuff. I figured this logic would be also true for Whir of Invention when I put it in. So far, this has been the case. Admittedly, he gets worse if you don't have good mana rocks to untap with his +1. If I have no real creatures on board but I have +1/+1 counter enablers, I just get a Baleful Strix the turn I play him. Also note that setting x=0 gets artifact lands.
Honestly, the more ways you have of getting ravager, the better, because that card has everything you need to make the deck work.
About haruspex..first card that comes to mind that could be removed to find space for it would be sage of fables (excluding those experimental slots of course). Never seen this card in action yet either.
So far when I played tezzeret it either ramped me by 2 mana with mana vault or won me the game by getting time sieve. Never used his +1.
Lol liquimetal coating. Reminds me of a casual deck I used to run with it and Splinter... I'd make your basic island an artifact and splinter it.
I did play liquimetal coating for quite a long time in a norin deck which also had Viashino heretic. It was a bomb when I had both out. I wouldn't know what I'd do to have a silvok replica in grixis color identity.
latest sub: liquimetal coating out for grim haruspex. decided to keep sage of fables and to remove a marchesa enabler since it was a bit conditional and had no artifact removal anyway in the deck.
Bro. Run Jokulhaups over Apocalypse, you don't want to Exile your own stuff. That way you still nuke their stuff, your stuff comes back and you keep your hand.
Jokulhaups is a great card. i chose apocalypse over it because:
-exile is way better than destroy, in general
-jokulhaups doesn't affect either enchantments and planeswalkers, and you don't want to be landless against enemy planeswalkers (or not being able to do anything to a player behind solitary confinements.
-exile of permanents in this deck shouldn't be an issue, as one of this deck's strategies is being able to have a sacrifice outlet in play as often as possible, which should mean that it could close a game where you are the only one having a board (even if this exiled your only sac outlet)
-i couldn't care less about my hand. if i'm casting this either i'm terribly behind or i'm closing the game. this usually means i'm close to not having a hand either way.
-i worry mostly about the triple red than anything else.
i will let you know if i ever end up wishing i drew jokulhaups instead of apocalypse on my next games.
played a game with the deck, ugin overperformed. ended up winning the game because of a living death cast against me that put both imperial recruiter and arcbound ravager back into the battlefield (tutored master of marionettes with the recruiter). 12 damage a turn.
an opponent running life from the loam and recurring bojuka bog *and* strip mine (and i was in his crosshairs since i attacked him with a 10/10 inkmoth nexus, stopped by a crop rotation into maze of ith) made me realize the value of nihil spellbomb, so i'm about to include it again in the deck.
i wondered how could i gain another haste effect, but i think i will stop my search on lightning greaves, the shroud shouldn't hurt much, as all i care is getting one counter on a creature before equipping, sacrifice effects do not target, and when back from the gy creatures are obviously not equipped.
from amonkhet, i'm adding commit/memory in chaos warp place. the bounce into deck is an effect desperately needed without direct interaction with enchantments, the secondary emergency counterspell is nice, and the aftermath effect is just icing on the cake.
about the general strategy of the deck, no deck i ever ran could be able of getting into archenemy position so fast. i am almost considering switching to breya just to be able to tone it down so that no game starts 3v1.
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the plan A of the deck is to just close out by aggroing, plan B is to close out with a combo (of which there are plenty, including dumping +1/+1 tokens on inkmoth nexus).
i somewhat have a fetish of toolboxes in commander, this might justify the inclusion of claws of gix as a trinket mage/tolaria west target and mystical teachings to tutor for teferi and pact of negation
the most recent change is adding entomb and anger, with entomb having some upside with any graveyard recursion.
here's the decklist:
commander
1x Marchesa, the Black Rose
1x Anger
1x Arcbound Crusher
1x Arcbound Ravager
1x Arcbound Reclaimer
1x Arcbound Slith
1x Arcbound Stinger
1x Arcbound Worker
1x Baleful Strix
1x Burnished Hart
1x Extruder
1x Grim Haruspex
1x Imperial Recruiter
1x Marionette Master
1x Metallic Mimic
1x Metalworker
1x Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1x Mindless Automaton
1x Myr Battlesphere
1x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Sage of Fables
1x Scarecrone
1x Scrap Trawler
1x Shimmer Myr
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Spellskite
1x Sphinx Summoner
1x Steel Hellkite
1x Steel Overseer
1x Treasure Keeper
1x Trinket Mage
1x Triskelion
1x Venser, Shaper Savant
1x Walking Ballista
1x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Badlands
1x Blood Crypt
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Cabal Coffers
1x Command Tower
1x Flamekin Village
1x Great Furnace
1x Hanweir Battlements
1x Inkmoth Nexus
1x Inventors' Fair
2x Island
2x Mountain
1x Opal Palace
1x Phyrexian Tower
1x Polluted Delta
1x Ruins of Oran-Rief
1x Seat of the Synod
1x Steam Vents
1x Strip Mine
1x Sunken Ruins
3x Swamp
1x Tolaria West
1x Underground Sea
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Vault of Whispers
1x Volcanic Island
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Watery Grave
1x Winding Canyons
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Ashnod's Altar
1x Blade of the Bloodchief
1x Claws of Gix
1x Expedition Map
1x Krark-Clan Ironworks
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mox Opal
1x Nim Deathmantle
1x Phyrexian Altar
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Skullclamp
1x Sol Ring
1x Thran Dynamo
1x Time Sieve
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Entomb
1x Lim-Dul's Vault
1x Muddle the Mixture
1x Mystical Teachings
1x Pact of Negation
1x Whir of Invention
1x Apocalypse
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Living Death
1x Daretti, Scrap Savant
1x Tezzeret the Seeker
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1x Sneak Attack
1x Unspeakable Symbol
thanks in advance to anyone who is willing to help!
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
that was the very same reaction I had when i opened a foil one in a prize booster.
you obviously have more games under your belt with this archetype than I do (because i played like 3 games with the deck so far), would you care for an evaluation?
In looking at it, it's like playing an Opal Palace for your colorless creatures instead of for Marchesa.
However, unlike that land, you can activate it on creatures entering back from the graveyard. Basically, you can spend 1 to allow yourself to loop something once for free each turn cycle or just hold it as a response to removal. Pretty solid value for a land.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
I think probable cuts are Mystical Teachings (not a lot of targets), entomb (only good at getting you 1-2 things here) and Primal Clay (stats not efficient with any of its modes)
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
turns out Primal Clay wasn't even in the deck, i was running 98 cards, so there's a swamp.
put in a second island in grim aruspex's spot. the creature does little on a empty board, and i think there are more elegant ways to draw in here already.
this puts me on 34 lands (they were 32 before).
before cutting teachings or entomb (which would mean to me to remove anger as well) i wish to see them in a game, so far it hasn't happened yet. they are on the chopping block as soon as they are not as much of use as i think they are.
some new arrivals:
kuldotha forgemaster -> whir of invention usually i need to tutor one artifact to the battlefield to close up a game, so i think it's an improvement, as it's easier to operate (the tap on kuldotha forgemaster is really slow). on this train of thought, i'm considering removing tezzeret the seeker for the same reasons now.
moriok replica -> scarecrone the crone does a better job with recursion and with metallic mimic, and since they are both here to be abused with marchesa, the extra card drawn with the replica doesn't matter as much, but the activation cost does.
crystalline crawler -> metalworker hopefully a upgrade.
a mox opal is coming in a mail order, so does a sunken ruins to help with the double blue costs. i already have a hangarback walker that i feel belongs here, but no idea really if it is better than another card in the list.
i know, since i learned the existence of the card i kept an eye on enchantments running about in my meta...oblivion ring, auras, the occasional symmetrical effect..so far, not much i wouldn't just prefer to destroy. not being an artifact does make the card clunkier in here, so i'm wary about acquiring one.
so far i need to rely on the following regarding enchantments:
cyclonic rift
chaos warp
ugin, the spirit dragon
steel hellkite
venser, shaper savant
i would love an artifact creature in grixis that killed enchantments, or even just artifacts (since i do run liquimetal coating after all).
When I play Tezzeret the Seeker, I pretty rarely use his minus ability for more than x=2. 2 gets me all of the good enabler stuff. I figured this logic would be also true for Whir of Invention when I put it in. So far, this has been the case. Admittedly, he gets worse if you don't have good mana rocks to untap with his +1. If I have no real creatures on board but I have +1/+1 counter enablers, I just get a Baleful Strix the turn I play him. Also note that setting x=0 gets artifact lands.
Honestly, the more ways you have of getting ravager, the better, because that card has everything you need to make the deck work.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
About haruspex..first card that comes to mind that could be removed to find space for it would be sage of fables (excluding those experimental slots of course). Never seen this card in action yet either.
So far when I played tezzeret it either ramped me by 2 mana with mana vault or won me the game by getting time sieve. Never used his +1.
I did play liquimetal coating for quite a long time in a norin deck which also had Viashino heretic. It was a bomb when I had both out. I wouldn't know what I'd do to have a silvok replica in grixis color identity.
- etherium sculptor
- nihil spellbomb
+ sunken ruins
+ mox opal
i'm not at all happy to let go of the spellbomb, but my alternatives were either the artifact or something more costly like a wrath effect.
almost forgot, speaking of wraths:
- decree of pain
+ apocalypse
because i want to be that much of a dick if the situation requires it.
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
-exile is way better than destroy, in general
-jokulhaups doesn't affect either enchantments and planeswalkers, and you don't want to be landless against enemy planeswalkers (or not being able to do anything to a player behind solitary confinements.
-exile of permanents in this deck shouldn't be an issue, as one of this deck's strategies is being able to have a sacrifice outlet in play as often as possible, which should mean that it could close a game where you are the only one having a board (even if this exiled your only sac outlet)
-i couldn't care less about my hand. if i'm casting this either i'm terribly behind or i'm closing the game. this usually means i'm close to not having a hand either way.
-i worry mostly about the triple red than anything else.
i will let you know if i ever end up wishing i drew jokulhaups instead of apocalypse on my next games.
an opponent running life from the loam and recurring bojuka bog *and* strip mine (and i was in his crosshairs since i attacked him with a 10/10 inkmoth nexus, stopped by a crop rotation into maze of ith) made me realize the value of nihil spellbomb, so i'm about to include it again in the deck.
i wondered how could i gain another haste effect, but i think i will stop my search on lightning greaves, the shroud shouldn't hurt much, as all i care is getting one counter on a creature before equipping, sacrifice effects do not target, and when back from the gy creatures are obviously not equipped.
from amonkhet, i'm adding commit/memory in chaos warp place. the bounce into deck is an effect desperately needed without direct interaction with enchantments, the secondary emergency counterspell is nice, and the aftermath effect is just icing on the cake.
about the general strategy of the deck, no deck i ever ran could be able of getting into archenemy position so fast. i am almost considering switching to breya just to be able to tone it down so that no game starts 3v1.