MTG Salvation

I love control, but necessarily the blue counter spell game control. I play toolbox, I play taxes, and I play tempo, hate bears, etc. So when I saw the precons, I originally wanted to play yidris as a way to cheat in more control elements and grind the game down. Then I see everyone and their mom building him long before the day it is in stores. Scratch that... I am not a hipster, but I don't wanna see a table of 4 all playing the in style thing.

So then I look at Atraxa, and thinking to myself.... this would be fun as hell and spicy in control. I could play tangle wire, smoke stax, black market, and all sorts of things. Then again, everyone is playing her too. Soo scratching that off the list, I look at the other 2 commanders.... didn't see the synergy for what I wanted.

As I sit around contemplating what to do with my boredom, I see a group of guys playing a group of precons. I walked over, asked if I could watch and mulled over my thoughts. That was when I saw her... legit didn't know she was apart of the set. Everyone apparently grabbed her off the shelves for magus of the wheel and bruce and some other good stuff to part the deck for. I fell in love... was like she was staring directly into my eyes. BREYA!!!! WHERE YOU BEEN ALL MY LIFE.

Now my problem is I tend to go off in 100 directions if I have to many colors, and she has esper and red... arguably best color for artifact stax colors.... now here is my problem. I haven't done artifact stax and I am jumbled. There are so many ways I can go about this. I need 2 maybe 3 combos to win, and just a bunch of control elements and ways to grind the game down. Also need good stuff that is just synergistic.... gg I am bogged down.

Here is my current list:



As you can see, there is a lot to be wanted still. Maybe even some cuts as well. Im new to the whole artifact stacks, and not sure.

Im at 100 cards out of 100, but again this is a work in progress, and I'd love help. If you think something belongs in here, or doesn't belong in here, tell me what could replace it, or why it isn't fitting.

CMC = 2.64

Cards to go in deck once fatback is trimmed:
Power artifact
Tezzeret, agent of bolas
Staff of domination
Rishadan port
Supreme verdict

Possible cards:
Metalworker

Zzzz List a.k.a. that dream list:
Ravages of war
INSERT BLUE DUAL LANDS IN ALL COLORS FOR BREYA
The Abyss
Nether Void

The deck is going in two different directions, Stax and Combo kill. Not that you can't do both, certainly Stax needs win cons, but obviously you give up certain things by trying to do both.

Opposition will be excellent in this deck. You can even tap your own Winter Orb, Static Orb, before your turn with it. Breya provides the creatures to use it effectively.

Stax cards that you are not playing:
Nether Void
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Thalia, Heretical Cathar
Lodestone Golem
Trinisphere
Sphere of Resistance
Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
Thorn of Amethyst
Aura Of Silence
Glowrider
Vryn Wingmare

Then there is actually land destruction which if you were to have enough artifact mana would probably be good.
Armageddon
Boom // Bust
Catastrophe
Devastation
Impending Disaster
Desolation
Mana Vortex
Pox
Death Cloud
Land Equilibrium

Lands associated with Stax:
Strip Mine
Wasteland
Tectonic Edge
Dust Bowl
Rishadan Port

---

On the combo side you can also play:
Thopter Assembly
Krark-Clan Ironworks
Myr Battlesphere
Eldrazi Displacer

Krark-Clan Ironworks is like a better Ashnod's altar in this deck, but obviusly it serves as a double up for combos.

Time Sieve + Thopter Assembly = infinite turns.

Eldrazi Displacer + Breya, Etherium Shaper + (Ashnod's Altar or Krark-Clan Ironworks) = infinite 1/1 and infinite colorless mana = kill with Breya

Myr Battlesphere + Master Transmuter + Clock of Omens + Gilded Lotus = infinite mana

Crucible of Worlds

Ya, i know... i need to consolidate my win con. That being said... do i get rid of sword of meek combo? Or time sieve? Im def going to add in vortex in, and opposition. It really does work nice with breya.


Hmmm ill add in lodestone golem as well. Hmmm i might need more thopter or token producers. How do you feel about eldrazi displacer? With krark or ashnods.... it is infinite colorless mana. Which i can use to combo out as a win condition with breya.

Doh... ya crucible...

Hmmm if i run mana vortex should i run all signets and gilded?

Quote from KillTheIslandUser »

Hmmm if i run mana vortex should i run all signets and gilded?

I mean the thing with Commander is that everybody usually run artifact mana, so catching people out with a Winter Orb, etc is going to be much harder. On top of this you don't have much repetitive artifacts mana yourself. So yes you need gilded and the signets.

You should also run Vandalblast

I plan on running mana vortex down the road, but ya vandal blast is good here. I added some more tutoring. Im starting to narrow down the deck to be more stax like. I probably still have to many combo effects and or things that won't be used effeciently.

So now comes cutting, and even looking at the deck where i can optimize it better. I might have to many ramp based artifacts that don't meed to be.

I'd love some input as again i get get stuck with doimg too much with more colors.

Things that can be cut:
blinkmoth urn is a nonbo in stax
lotus petal maybe an infinite combo salvaging station? but otherwise weak
mindslaver, good card, but in a stax environment, probably will be stuck in your hand for the whole game
treasure mage = salvaging station, mindslaver, too narrow and nonbo with torpor orb
hanna, ship's navigator just too slow

Im also feeling time sieve should go. If im going infinite, i already got breya.... and i have no good way to abuse it. Now what to add.

I love land Equilibrium in here but there isn't many ways to punish opponent with it.
Running a package of all the best artifacts 12-15 should be ok plus things like Armageddon, ravages of war, sunder make it so players cannot play after you land your enchantment.

Speaking of enchantments necropotence should absolutely be in here. It makes games much more in your favor easy.
Fun card to abuse with Breya (And necro) would be Zur's Weirding. Your general can already gain you life and you can easily lock players out of the game with this.

Of course great win cons in stax are planeswalkers
Dack Fayden, Tezzeret the seeker, Tezzeret agent of bolas, Liliana of the veil, Daretti, daretti, and even Nicol bolas can be great finishers when you're opponents aren't doing anything for turns at a time

How do you feel about tectonic instability, or war's toll. Also i asked earlier, but what about eldrazi displacer?

I also added and removed some stuff. How is it looking now. Im probably going to add 2 of the moxes. The land and metalcraft one. Remove lesser artifacts and maybe a land or 2. And i am needing to make a cut to play zurs weirding.

Quote from KillTheIslandUser »

How do you feel about tectonic instability, or war's toll. Also i asked earlier, but what about eldrazi displacer?

Eldrazi Displacer is excellent, combos for infinite with Breya + (Ashnods or krark-clan ironworks). Plus its a good defense card as well. But you don't have many ETB creatures, so you only get a bit of value on your own creatures, with solemn simulacrum and breya. I think thats it, but still worth playing for combo.

How do you feel about tectonic instability, or war's toll.

Literally do nothing unless you have Winter Orb or Static Orb in play, so I'd keep that in mind.

Hanna, Ships Navigator seems too slow for what you're trying to do with this build. You have recursion in the deck already that's faster and/or more efficient. If you want another piece I'd look at Trash for Treasure instead. Hurkyl's Recall seems out of place in this deck. Why is it in?

I'll probably play test wars toll. I see your point on instability, but i think it is not a bad card on it's own. Would make for winter orb comimg out easier.

Also originally i had hurkyls as combo piece, or a oh no... they gonna blow me up, and id rather get it to my hand than graveyard. But it doesnt serve any good purpose. I gotta get something else in its place.

This list looks like its pulling from many different directions.  To respond to thr OP, I'm going to go on a bit of a tangent, but the  reason is to better frame my suggestions.

You titled this list a Stax list.  Stax is short for Stacks, which is a vintage term for the original prison list $T4KS, which was named "The four thousand dollar solution"  from which its abreviation originates from.  Most people, especially on the commander threads mislabel griefer decks as Stacks lists, when in truth, they do not fulfill the ideology of a Stax list.  Stax lists draw their roots from the O'Brien School of Magic, one of the earliest strategies of competitive Magic, whose proponents subscribed to the idea that if you could contain your opponent's resources, you could control create an unbreakable gamestate from which the opponent could never recover from.

Griefer decks annoy players because they play cards that fragment and slow down the lines of play that make games enjoyable.  Stax lists are control decks that, instead of using countermagic to exert influence over opponents by controlling the stack, they exert their influence by generating permenant advantage to control the battlefield.  For a deck to truly be a Stax deck, the deck has to generate advantage by breaking the symmetry on cards that help contain boardstates (many of which also have the effect of taxing the stack, to prevent plays that would change the gamestate you aim to sculpt.  In a sense, griefer decks are the alpha apex predator that kills prey for sport or as a show of stregnth, where Stax decks are more akin to the boa constrictor that carefully and with calculation squeezes the life out of its prey in order to feed itself, because preassure is its primary way to hunt.

If you aim to build a stax deck, you deck slots must reflect this ideology, and more importantly, function to exert just as much preassure on the opponent.   Trinket Mage may be there as a tutor, but if isn't the leanest, most efficient tutor for something that is going to put the game away, it doesnt belong in the deck.  I would actullay advise against using planeswalkers: they make for great win cons but terrible board control permenants. With that in mind, the majority of the spells in your deck should aim to control the board, while your win conditions should be as sleek and efficient as possible, synergistic with the board control strategy, and be as compact as possible.  

Darrenhabib gave a great run-down of cards that help lockdown boardstates so you gain gain control of them.  While mana advantage is the primary route one can use to control the board, it isnt the only one that has to be put in check.  Also, in a perfect world, your opponents will have access to the same mana sources that you will, and just as many (if not more) reasons to utilize them. 

Additionally, as the Commander rules help serve to both contain and homogenize mana sources to even the pace and stregth of mana development across all commander colors combinations and power levels, the inability to run multiple Sol Lands, coupled with your opponents' ability to run optimized manabases similar to yours, are additional handicaps this strategy needs to overcome.  As such, you should scrutinize you mana sources very carefully, as a solid and carefully constructed mana base is paramount to the success of this strategy, much more than almost any other in Magic, and especially commander. 

The benefit to jumping through all these hoops, is that you can apply immense preassure over the game, BECAUSE EACH OPPONENT WILL BE STRUGGLING TO BREAK FREE OF THE GAMESTATE YOU ARE CRAFTING.  Many pages have been written about how the rules of 1v1 card advantage are warped and bastardized when applied to multi-player games.  However, when playing prison, because the prison effects are symmetrical, when the opponent who is "most ahead" is still playing from behind, you are winning.  The "come from behind" play has to be sculpted, and ideally will take many turns to formulate, so it can be hedged off before it is too late. 

I hope this helps guide your decisions. Once I can see the direction you list is trying to take, I can make better suggestions on your card choices.

"Opposition will be excellent in this deck. You can even tap your own Winter Orb, Static Orb, before your turn with it. Breya provides the creatures to use it effectively."

How about Ghirapur Aether Grid? Seems awesome with Unwinding Clock!

Quote from Jostin123 »

If you aim to build a stax deck, you deck slots must reflect this ideology, and more importantly, function to exert just as much pressure on the opponent.   Trinket Mage may be there as a tutor, but if isn't the leanest, most efficient tutor for something that is going to put the game away, it doesn't belong in the deck.  I would actually advise against using planeswalkers: they make for great win cons but terrible board control permanents. With that in mind, the majority of the spells in your deck should aim to control the board, while your win conditions should be as sleek and efficient as possible, synergistic with the board control strategy, and be as compact as possible.  

This is the exact mindset you need to have with this deck if you truly want it to be a $T4KS deck. Think Alex, like full blown Alex. I like what you've cobbled together, I'm impressed, but you'll need to huddle with experienced Staks players to take the deck to the next level. I was just going to make a post about your mana base (you have an excess amount of red and white sources for what you're running), but Jostin123's post hit the nail home in a way that wasn't coming to me since I'm not that involved with Stax decks.

I would take a look at darrenhabib's list, and use that as the foundation of your stax package - as stated above, your point is to break the symmetry on these cards to control the game state into a board your opponents can't come back from.

In general, yes: planeswalkers are terrible board control cards. However, a couple in the Grixis shard break that ideaology. Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker (mentioned earlier) probably controls the board the best outside of Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, but both these bros cost 8 mana. I don't know if that's good for a Stax deck - can any of the Stax players out there comment on this? There's also Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast. This guy helps break symmetry by not only making dudes, but also by breaking your opponent's creatures and Sol Rings - er mana rocks, so you maintain control of the board.

This is why I love this community. That being said, I've read up on this and taken a lot of thought. Im going to rethink this deck, and infact take apart my selvala deck. It is my other control deck, and has my more effective cards in it. I love it, but it is time to graduate, and breya is going to be my real stax deck.

Things like lodestone golem, thalia, moxes, mana rocks and such. Ill update it more later on today. So thank you all for helping me on my journey so far. Soon ill have a better idea and will get more out of this deck.

Also, im curious as to the planeswalker ideas skull said. More out of theory.

A good thread to follow. I'm curious what your actual win condition is. I like the idea of Breya as a general because she comes with an ETB trigger that generates bodies and she has removal stapled onto her. Because she's also an artifact, with these other benefits, she can definitely be a brutal stax commander. Lodestone golem would be especially good here since artifacts are such a heavy component. Another point for daretti, genius iconoclast is that he makes skullclamp fodder in addition to killing things. Sun Titan, while being expensive cmc wise, can bring most stax pieces back to play and can get around some of the stax effects with vigilance. Good luck!

Posted my 99 recently.

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/763811-breya-control-into-domination

Should give you a lot of good options and things to consider for your own deck.
Granted I have a lot of changes to make for testing but I really like the deck

I'M BAAAAAAAAAAACK! Sorry and thank you to all who have viewed this list and left discussion. I am sorry I had to do a lot of ***** around that holiday stretch happen. Im not a big fan of it, and I didn't really put breya in my thoughts.

Flashback 2 weeks ago...

***** was calming down a bit. Busted out Breya in all her unfinished sadness. I've been play testing a lot to get over the rage of holidays, and wanting to get an actual list going.

I loved all the talk and help here, and I feel I am having direction now. Fine-tune and play test need to keep happening, and I'm having a lot of fun with this deck, and slowly coming to that light I envisioned of her.


Things that need to go in atm:
Power artifact
Tezzeret, agent of bolas
Staff of domination
Rishadan port
Supreme verdict
Flagstones of trokair

Things need play testing:
Transmute Artifact
Inventor's Fair
Mystic Remora


Now the issue Im having, hands down.... win cons... Im torn.. I feel a 2 card combo is good, aka sword + thop assembly. I also feel breya is a win condition, but then..... nevermore. There is also the nim death mantle combo.

Do I really need salvagimg station? Is it nice mana when it gets going, and just subpar recurssion otherwise? Is Gilded just the better way to mana rock? If I had a better land base atm, Id cut chromatic lantern, and stick in coalilition relic.

So I ask for your help once again MtgSalvation community... and would like to pick your brains.

Bump