Once the new Tamiyo was spoiled, I decided I wanted to revisit my idea behind a Superfriends deck. My previous one was Bant as well, but with Rubinia at the helm. That deck was more around stealing creatures and blinking stuff and had a very small Planeswalker subtheme. I wanted to make a deck with a major focus being on the planeswalkers.
I started by including every color but Red, but I felt this bogged down the deck too much. By cutting black I did cut some tutors and a couple decent Walkers, but I feel the deck is much better overall with only 3 colors. I was able to add in a bit more mana ramp and tighten up the curve and answers. Angus is the general because of the Fog effect which helps protect my Planeswalkers from one person a turn cycle.
There are a couple generals I am not sure about. Mostly the 2 Gideons (I added Gideon, Ally of Zendikar because I got the SDCC promo and I wanted to play it) and Kiora, the Crashing Wave, but so far they seem alright. Here is the decklist:
The deck obviously revolves around Planeswakers so Doubling Season and Rings of Brighthearth are a must. Deploy the Gatewatch has been fantastic so far. The last game I played I had Doubling Season down and cast Deploy the Gatewatch. I only got one planeswalker, but it was Ugin and I was able to Ultimate him right away. I ran away with the game even after they killed Ugin since I just got him back with Seasons Past and did it again.
A cool interaction occurs when I have both Tamiyo's emblems and two planeswalkers with the same type. So, if I have Ajani, Mentor of Heroes down, I can use an ability, cast the other Ajani, send the first to the graveyard, get it back due to the emblem, use an ability on new Ajani, cast Mentor of Heroes and keep the cycle going. If I have Doubling Season, I can continuously ultimate the same planeswalkers over and over.
I have quite a bit of land ramp to ensure I can cast my planeswalkers as soon as possible. Prahv, Maze of Ith, and Comeuppance helps protect them from damage. Sun Titan helps ramp and Emeria Shepherd helps get planeswalkers back from the graveyard.
Counter spells help protect my board and Mana Drain helps protect and ramp into planeswalkers. I should have Enlightened Tutor to search out Doubling Season or The Chain Veil, but I am trying to minimize tutors as I don't want every game to devolve into "Tutor for Doubling Season...Win". That is another reason I cut black. I want the deck to work, but I want others to play the game too.
If there are any suggestions, feel free to bring them up. As this is the first real Superfriends deck I have made, I am sure I have missed some cards and others may seem out of place.
Yeah, I have been watching the cards and so far Throne is the only card I plan on putting into any of my decks. I plan on putting it into Gitrog since I can keep getting it back fairly easily. I agree that Angus is pretty well setup to be The Monarch so I might try Throne in this deck. If nothing else, it makes my opponent's choose whether or not to attack me to become the Monarch or my Planeswalkers to keep them from going off. They can split it up, but I think it could save some of my Planeswalkers
Following this, as I'm real interested in building a Superfriends deck. Was considering Narset but this is a thought, too.
I could see that build being decent. I honestly thought about cutting green at one point anyway since the green planeswalkers are kind of underwhelming. I still wanted to play Tamiyo though.
However, the main reason I kept green was due to the support cards. So, while green doesn't have the best planeswalkers of the 3 colors, I felt it has way too many support cards (Doubling Season, ramp, and recursion) to really follow through on cutting it.
I think if you end up building a Superfriends deck you will be very happy with the green addition.
You are running a lot of graveard recursion. It seems to much to me. Second Sunrise looks odd. Are there enough Fetchlands and Etb-Creatures to make it worth?
Timetwister could be replaced by some other draw. It dissynergizes with your recursion and might help your opponents more.
I agree that Second Sunrise might not be enough. I was thinking that with a board wipe, I could get my creatures back which would also get me their EtB triggers for mana ramp (mostly) and maybe Sun Titan or Emeria Shepherd. It is also a way to keep Doubling Season on board. However, since it doesn't hit planeswalkers, and my creature count is low, it might not be as impactful as I want it to be. I might try to find a card to put in instead.
I don't think I can cut Timetwister. It is one of the main cards for card draw and I am not as concerned over giving my opponents cards (usually) as my board presence should be just better to take advantage of the draw at that time. Once I get Tamiyo 2.0's emblem, those cards are awesome to get and I don't know of any cheap draw spells I could put in its place. Of all the decks I play Timetwister in, and all the times I have cast it, I don't think I have ever been upset to cast it. Either I am far enough behind that I need it or I am just trying to continue in some play line that I want it.
I agree that Gideon, Ally of Zendikar isn't very good. I mentioned above that the main reason I am running it is because I have the SDCC Promo (which is one of the worst reasons to run a card, but oh well). I am fine with cutting it.
Elspeth Tirel is mainly there for the ultimate, but I have been finding that I never want to activate it since it affects my board too much. Here -2 ability is still good and here + can be relevant in certain cases. It is one of the few planeswalkers I won't generally ultimate, but she still does stuff to help protect other planeswalkers. I can see cutting her too.
The only reason Knight-Errant isn't in the list is because her abilities don't seem the greatest. 1 token doesn't do much and I am creature-light so her second +1 ability doesn't seem like it would do much. Her ultimate is great but it doesn't protect my planeswalkers.
Jace would actually be really good. His -2 and -8 are very relevant and quadruple Bribery off his ultimate would be awesome to pull off. I think I will cut Second Sunrise for Jace, AoT. At some point, if I can find a card, I will probably end up cutting Elspeth Tirel and Gideoan, AoZ as well but I am not sure what I want in either spot.
Nice to see Angus Mackenzie getting some love. He's my casual table-friendly fun deck general & i also went w/ the superfriends route. Though i didnt go as heavy on the walkers as you did & i purposefully left out Doubling Season & The Chain Veil. He's great fun to play & i've had pretty good success w/ him. Hope you find him as enjoyable as i do, cheers!
Following this, as I'm real interested in building a Superfriends deck. Was considering Narset but this is a thought, too.
I could see that build being decent. I honestly thought about cutting green at one point anyway since the green planeswalkers are kind of underwhelming. I still wanted to play Tamiyo though.
However, the main reason I kept green was due to the support cards. So, while green doesn't have the best planeswalkers of the 3 colors, I felt it has way too many support cards (Doubling Season, ramp, and recursion) to really follow through on cutting it.
I think if you end up building a Superfriends deck you will be very happy with the green addition.
Narset is just SO broken, I don't know if I want to up the "arms" race like that. All of our decks are fairly broken but that takes it to another level. I think just about every one of us has a Narset build in mind but we're too afraid to bring it out LOL.....
Following this, as I'm real interested in building a Superfriends deck. Was considering Narset but this is a thought, too.
I could see that build being decent. I honestly thought about cutting green at one point anyway since the green planeswalkers are kind of underwhelming. I still wanted to play Tamiyo though.
However, the main reason I kept green was due to the support cards. So, while green doesn't have the best planeswalkers of the 3 colors, I felt it has way too many support cards (Doubling Season, ramp, and recursion) to really follow through on cutting it.
I think if you end up building a Superfriends deck you will be very happy with the green addition.
Narset is just SO broken, I don't know if I want to up the "arms" race like that. All of our decks are fairly broken but that takes it to another level. I think just about every one of us has a Narset build in mind but we're too afraid to bring it out LOL.....
I don't know. I mean Narset into Planeswalkers seems like one of the more fair things you could do with Narset. This is more a testament to the broken things that Narset can do more so that the fairness of casting 4 planeswalkers each combat. But, to me, it doesn't seem absurdly broken, but I don't know your meta as well as you do.
If Narset might be too broken, then I think adding green is the way to go so you can still hopefully keep up with the rest of the table.
Thoughts on using Rhystic Study for some card draw? Usually a staple in any blue deck I run.
I have never been a fan of the card. It is powerful for sure, but eventually it just becomes irrelevant. I might be able to make use of it, but I prefer guaranteed draw sources rather than hoping my opponents won't pay the tax. Early game it is great but in most metas players will just pay the one in the late game or just get rid of it.
But, if it works in your meta, it is a good addition.
Thoughts on using Rhystic Study for some card draw? Usually a staple in any blue deck I run.
I have never been a fan of the card. It is powerful for sure, but eventually it just becomes irrelevant. I might be able to make use of it, but I prefer guaranteed draw sources rather than hoping my opponents won't pay the tax. Early game it is great but in most metas players will just pay the one in the late game or just get rid of it.
But, if it works in your meta, it is a good addition.
Good point. I've been throwing around the idea of going the 'normal' route with Sliver Queen but I'm liking the idea of sticking to 3C. I think I may go with Angus. Besides, he's such a cool card haha.
As for Narset, I think people are worried that with her, unlimited turns, land destruction and board wipes will become a thing. I play Kaalia and I'm used to being hated out even though it's not that good in multiplayer, but not sure if I want to have TWO decks like that. We'll see.
Thoughts on using Rhystic Study for some card draw? Usually a staple in any blue deck I run.
I have never been a fan of the card. It is powerful for sure, but eventually it just becomes irrelevant. I might be able to make use of it, but I prefer guaranteed draw sources rather than hoping my opponents won't pay the tax. Early game it is great but in most metas players will just pay the one in the late game or just get rid of it.
But, if it works in your meta, it is a good addition.
Good point. I've been throwing around the idea of going the 'normal' route with Sliver Queen but I'm liking the idea of sticking to 3C. I think I may go with Angus. Besides, he's such a cool card haha.
As for Narset, I think people are worried that with her, unlimited turns, land destruction and board wipes will become a thing. I play Kaalia and I'm used to being hated out even though it's not that good in multiplayer, but not sure if I want to have TWO decks like that. We'll see.
I actually started this list with the intention of going 5 color. I started with Cromat as the general though my friend suggested Sliver Queen. I agreed that was a better option since it created creatures which the deck is light on, but I decided to just cut it down to 3 color before trying it out.
Very early in deckbuilding I concluded that red was not good enough to include. Black was awesome and I liked playing the deck as 4 color, but 3 color is the sweet spot for this type of deck. Others work fine as 5 color (Slivers for example) but I think with the mana requirements (many 4, 5, and 6 drops plus double color requirements) meant that it was nowhere near consistent enough with the mana base. And that is with rainbow lands and every dual.
Regarding Narset; that is a huge concern and is one reason I haven't built a non-broken version of her yet. The stigma with Narset is hard to overcome, but I think she can be one of the more fun generals if built to not combo out of nowhere. I think she might even run well as a "Chaos" general since her ability is fairly chaotic already and she has access to red for other chaos effects. And yes, unfortunately Kaalia has a reputation too so I totally understand not wanting to have another "degenerate" general at the helm of your Superfriends deck.
In either case, I think you can find some middle ground that gets you to where you want to be with this type of deck.
Been slowly picking up pieces to give a version of this deck to go.. Any Kaladesh updates? Been thinking about a couple cards.
Dovin Baan -- His -7 ability seems fun Nissa, Vital Force - Seems like the -3 and -6 ability could be good here Smuggler's Copter -- Seems like with all the tokens out there, it could be a good draw engine
Also, thoughts on Skullclamp? Seems like a natural fit with so many token generators.
Dovin Baan is the big one. His Ultimate is awesome and his + and - abilities can be relevant. I haven't given much thought to Nissa in this deck as I would mostly just use her for her -3 and I have so much other recursion, I am not sure she fits. However, I suppose that even if I "-3, +1, -3" it is about the same as Greenwarden of Murasa and she is easier to cheat in (with Deploy the Gatewatch) or tutor for (with Call the Gatewatch) that I could see finding a spot for her. Her ultimate is good, but I am not usually doing too much with trying to get lands in play once I have a steady stream of planeswalkers so I don't think I would often wait to get to her ultimate. I could be wrong though.
As to Skullclamp and Smuggler's Copter; there are really only 3 token producing planeswalkers that produce tokens that would die to Clamp: Nissa and both Elspeths. And, then Gideon also creates 2/2 tokens to help crew Copter. I am already thinking of cutting Elspeth Tirel and Gideon, Ally of Zendikar (one of them would make room for Dovin Baan) which would cut down further on the tokens that could crew Smuggler's Copter. So, I just don't think there is enough in the deck to make Skullclamp and Smuggler's Copter more than marginally useful.
I haven't updated the list yet because I don't play the deck often (I have 14 decks and only play about 3 games a week) and I am waiting a little bit longer before picking up any new cards from Kaladesh. Planeswalkers especially generally drop quite a bit. Chandra has gone from $40 down to $25 - $30 in a matter of about a week or two.
But, I like your idea of Dovin and I think Nissa could be useful in the deck. I will most likely pick both up soon (within the next 2 weeks or so) so I will see how they play out. I will update the decklist at that time.
If you're looking for another board wipe, I feel that Supreme Verdict should go in most Superfriends decks.
Realistically, that should be in there instead of Wrath of God. My first thought with white Wraths is always the original so I tend to forget about Supreme Verdict. I think the trade-off of letting them regenerate instead of letting it be countered is worthwhile.
I'd also consider giving Omniscience a try. Having a second version of the Tamiyo, Field Researcher emblem couldn't hurt, and I think you have enough ramp to cast it without too much trouble. To that end, I know you don't like tutors that much, but Academy Rector serves as a nice rattlesnake effect to keep your walkers safe, and if it dies in combat, you can get your main enchantments. I feel that it's a nice tutor to have.
Also, another combo to note. Omniscience/Field Researcher emblem + Moon Sage emblem + Doubling Season + Jace, Architect of Thought ultimate = Cast every spell you want in every deck. Something to note for when you want to live the dream. Your previous combo with the Ajani pair would work with this as well.
I'd also consider giving Omniscience a try. Having a second version of the Tamiyo, Field Researcher emblem couldn't hurt, and I think you have enough ramp to cast it without too much trouble. To that end, I know you don't like tutors that much, but Academy Rector serves as a nice rattlesnake effect to keep your walkers safe, and if it dies in combat, you can get your main enchantments. I feel that it's a nice tutor to have.
Also, another combo to note. Omniscience/Field Researcher emblem + Moon Sage emblem + Doubling Season + Jace, Architect of Thought ultimate = Cast every spell you want in every deck. Something to note for when you want to live the dream. Your previous combo with the Ajani pair would work with this as well.
I generally avoid Omniscience just because it is an easy "win" button. I do play it in Narset because I am trying to do broken things, but I am trying to keep this deck "watered down". At least with Tamiyo, it takes Doubling Season to Ultimate her right away and she can be attacked before that to slow her down.
Don't get me wrong; Omniscience is a great addition to the deck and for most people it would be something to include so it is good to mention it. It is just that for what I am trying to do, I don't want the redundancy.
I actually don't mind tutors in general and I run Vampiric Tutor, Enlightened Tutor, Demonic Tutor, Mystical Tutor and even Wordly Tutor in a few decks. I do run Mystical Tutor in this deck because it does give me options. The main reason I am avoiding Enchantment tutors (or anything that can get Enchantments) is because I am almost always going to get Doubling Season. It just makes the deck play more linearly than I want. And, since I only have 4 enchantments, there isn't even anything remotely close to be getting beyond that so if I already have Doubling Season on the field or in my hand Academy Rector becomes a "dead" card.
Again, it is a good suggestion as it powers up the deck quite a bit (especially if Omniscience is added); just not something I want the deck to do.
That is a good catch on the Jace, Architect of Thought loop. I will keep that in mind if I can ever get to that point in the game. Casting everybody's stuff from their libraries sounds pretty fun
Thoughts on running the 38 lands vs. say 36 with the 3 signets + Sol Ring
You would end up having to cut 2 other cards (probably land ramp I assume), but I could see that making the deck somewhat faster (or at least have some random explosive starts without being too overpowered). The only problem with Sol Ring (as minor as it is) is that it doesn't help you cast Angus. Since the deck doesn't rely on the general that much, it doesn't really matter. It does let you do something like:
1) land - Sol Ring - Signet
2) land - Doubling Season
3) land - Deploy the Gatewatch - Get 2 planeswalkers and Ultimate them right away
I think they would be a good addition. I (due to personal preference) don't often play artifact ramp in green decks because I feel that artifact ramp is more vulnerable and I like the idea of games building up to something rather than just playing some massive play on turn 3. It depends on your meta and play style, but I could see the argument for adjusting the mana base to include some artifact ramp to allow for these explosive starts.
Thoughts on running the 38 lands vs. say 36 with the 3 signets + Sol Ring
You would end up having to cut 2 other cards (probably land ramp I assume), but I could see that making the deck somewhat faster (or at least have some random explosive starts without being too overpowered). The only problem with Sol Ring (as minor as it is) is that it doesn't help you cast Angus. Since the deck doesn't rely on the general that much, it doesn't really matter. It does let you do something like:
1) land - Sol Ring - Signet
2) land - Doubling Season
3) land - Deploy the Gatewatch - Get 2 planeswalkers and Ultimate them right away
I think they would be a good addition. I (due to personal preference) don't often play artifact ramp in green decks because I feel that artifact ramp is more vulnerable and I like the idea of games building up to something rather than just playing some massive play on turn 3. It depends on your meta and play style, but I could see the argument for adjusting the mana base to include some artifact ramp to allow for these explosive starts.
I'd also consider giving Omniscience a try. Having a second version of the Tamiyo, Field Researcher emblem couldn't hurt, and I think you have enough ramp to cast it without too much trouble. To that end, I know you don't like tutors that much, but Academy Rector serves as a nice rattlesnake effect to keep your walkers safe, and if it dies in combat, you can get your main enchantments. I feel that it's a nice tutor to have.
Also, another combo to note. Omniscience/Field Researcher emblem + Moon Sage emblem + Doubling Season + Jace, Architect of Thought ultimate = Cast every spell you want in every deck. Something to note for when you want to live the dream. Your previous combo with the Ajani pair would work with this as well.
I generally avoid Omniscience just because it is an easy "win" button. I do play it in Narset because I am trying to do broken things, but I am trying to keep this deck "watered down". At least with Tamiyo, it takes Doubling Season to Ultimate her right away and she can be attacked before that to slow her down.
Don't get me wrong; Omniscience is a great addition to the deck and for most people it would be something to include so it is good to mention it. It is just that for what I am trying to do, I don't want the redundancy.
I actually don't mind tutors in general and I run Vampiric Tutor, Enlightened Tutor, Demonic Tutor, Mystical Tutor and even Wordly Tutor in a few decks. I do run Mystical Tutor in this deck because it does give me options. The main reason I am avoiding Enchantment tutors (or anything that can get Enchantments) is because I am almost always going to get Doubling Season. It just makes the deck play more linearly than I want. And, since I only have 4 enchantments, there isn't even anything remotely close to be getting beyond that so if I already have Doubling Season on the field or in my hand Academy Rector becomes a "dead" card.
Again, it is a good suggestion as it powers up the deck quite a bit (especially if Omniscience is added); just not something I want the deck to do.
That is a good catch on the Jace, Architect of Thought loop. I will keep that in mind if I can ever get to that point in the game. Casting everybody's stuff from their libraries sounds pretty fun
Any chance you have some additions/subtractions you'd do if you decided to make this as degenerate as possible? I'm going to be playing it in a fairly cutthroat meta.. I won't be running stuff like Timetwister but I'm going to include Omniscience, etc.
Spells Idyllic Tutor (might be slow, but gets both Doubling Season and Omniscience) Power Artifact (infinite mana with Grim and Basalt Monolith) Tezzeret the Seeker (to get all your artifacts or untap the ones you have)
The lands would be because you wouldn't be as concerned about losing in combat and they don't produce colored mana which becomes more relevant when trying to be fast and degenerate. Cutting Comeuppance would fall into the same line of thinking of not caring about combat from your opponents.
Elspeths might not do as much in a "degenerate" build as you really want to win the turn you start to go off. Both rely more on combat and Elspeth Tirel's Ultimate gets rids of everything you are building towards. Both Gideons fall into this as well. This also slightly minimizes the use of Skullclamp.
Jace Beleren is an odd one. He is pretty decent to keep your hand full and to keep going, but you can't get to his ultimate on the turn he enters and his ultimate is what you want to get you to win.
Rout might be too much since you already have Wrath of God, Supreme Verdict and Akroma's Vengeance. Since you are trying to go fast, having that additional board wipe is excessive. I think you probably don't even need Wrath of God either and just have 2 to get you out of tough situations.
Above are the suggestions I can think of to win the way I could think of using Planeswalkers as the win-con. I know I suggested cutting 7-8 planeswalkers so it might cut into the theme a little bit. It also assumes you are trying to be "degenerate" in the vein of "winning right now" instead of going to combat to win. I would say going down to 30-32 lands wouldn't be awful (again, depending on the number of artifact ramp you add).
I cut Wrath of God for Supreme Verdict since I feel making it uncounterable is more relevant that shutting down Regeneration. Normally I don't have to worry about it being countered either, but counters come up more often than regeneration.
Elspeth Tirel has been underwhelming at best. I like that she can gain me life if I need it, but her ability to create tokens isn't as good a Sun's Champion since it costs loyalty and her ultimate is terrible for this deck since it blows up my entire board. I have enough to worry about with my opponents trying to get rid of my board so I don't need to help them out.
Instead of Elspeth, I decided to add Dovin Baan. He keeps digging if I need to, and his first ability can help shut down problematic creatures. Obviously, I want him for his Ultimate but while I am building to it, I feel he will have more of an impact over Elspeth.
Gideon Jura just doesn't fit the deck. None of his abilities are really relevant. I included him mostly for his +2 to help protect the rest of my planeswalkers but that usually ended up being no better than a Fog. Abdm since his other abilities just don't do much, I felt that hitting Gideon was almost always bad.
I am not really sure what the best card is to put in for Gideon. I have decided to try out Nissa, Vital Force to see what she ends up doing. She is effectively in here for her Ultimate, but her second ability could be pretty good to keep my hand full of Planeswalkers or other permanents. If I do get to her Ultimate, it lets me keep cards in my hand for the low cost of just finding a way to get a land onto the battlefield. It also makes my land ramp cards more relevant towards the late game.
I am not totally sold on Nissa, but I feel that this allows me to cut some of the underperforming planeswalkers for a couple that might at least have a little bit more impact.
I started by including every color but Red, but I felt this bogged down the deck too much. By cutting black I did cut some tutors and a couple decent Walkers, but I feel the deck is much better overall with only 3 colors. I was able to add in a bit more mana ramp and tighten up the curve and answers. Angus is the general because of the Fog effect which helps protect my Planeswalkers from one person a turn cycle.
There are a couple generals I am not sure about. Mostly the 2 Gideons (I added Gideon, Ally of Zendikar because I got the SDCC promo and I wanted to play it) and Kiora, the Crashing Wave, but so far they seem alright. Here is the decklist:
1 Angus Mackenzie
Lands
1 Alchemist’s Refuge
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Breeding Pool
1 Canopy Vista
1 City of Brass
1 Command Tower
1 Flooded Strand
7 Forest
1 Hallowed Fountain
5 Island
1 Kor Haven
1 Mana Confluence
1 Maze of Ith
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
1 Prahv, Spires of Order
1 Prairie Stream
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Savannah
1 Temple Garden
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
Instants
1 Comeuppance
1 Cryptic Command
1 Dig Through Time
1 Dismiss
1 Faith’s Reward
1 Mana Drain
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Summary Dismissal
1 Time Stop
1 Akroma’s Vengeance
1 All Suns’ Dawn
1 Call the Gatewatch
1 Creeping Renaissance
1 Deploy the Gatewatch
1 Praetor’s Counsel
1 Regrowth
1 Rout
1 Seasons Past
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Time Spiral
1 Timetwister
1 Verdant Confluence
Creatures
1 Burnished Hart
1 Dawntreader Elk
1 Emeria Shepherd
1 Eternal Witness
1 Farhaven Elf
1 Greenwarden of Murasa
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Sun Titan
1 Wood Elves
1 Yavimaya Granger
Artifacts
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 The Chain Veil
Enchantments
1 Doubling Season
1 Oath of Gideon
1 Oath of Jace
1 Oath of Nissa
1 Ajani Steadfast
1 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
1 Dovin Baan
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Jace, Memory Adept
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
1 Karn Liberated
1 Kiora, Master of the Depths
1 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
1 Narset Transcendent
1 Nissa, Vital Force
1 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
1 Tamiyo, Field Researcher
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 Teferi, Temporal Archmage
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Venser, the Sojourner
The deck obviously revolves around Planeswakers so Doubling Season and Rings of Brighthearth are a must. Deploy the Gatewatch has been fantastic so far. The last game I played I had Doubling Season down and cast Deploy the Gatewatch. I only got one planeswalker, but it was Ugin and I was able to Ultimate him right away. I ran away with the game even after they killed Ugin since I just got him back with Seasons Past and did it again.
A cool interaction occurs when I have both Tamiyo's emblems and two planeswalkers with the same type. So, if I have Ajani, Mentor of Heroes down, I can use an ability, cast the other Ajani, send the first to the graveyard, get it back due to the emblem, use an ability on new Ajani, cast Mentor of Heroes and keep the cycle going. If I have Doubling Season, I can continuously ultimate the same planeswalkers over and over.
I have quite a bit of land ramp to ensure I can cast my planeswalkers as soon as possible. Prahv, Maze of Ith, and Comeuppance helps protect them from damage. Sun Titan helps ramp and Emeria Shepherd helps get planeswalkers back from the graveyard.
Counter spells help protect my board and Mana Drain helps protect and ramp into planeswalkers. I should have Enlightened Tutor to search out Doubling Season or The Chain Veil, but I am trying to minimize tutors as I don't want every game to devolve into "Tutor for Doubling Season...Win". That is another reason I cut black. I want the deck to work, but I want others to play the game too.
If there are any suggestions, feel free to bring them up. As this is the first real Superfriends deck I have made, I am sure I have missed some cards and others may seem out of place.
GWUBAtraxa and Her Superfriends
WUB Oloro, the Life Drain Train
URG Animar, Soul of Elements
WBR Kaalia of the Vast
BWTeysa Karlov, Scion of Orzhov
R Purphoros, Goblins of Pain ($100 Budget Challenge)
U Talrand, Fun Police (Needs updating)
However, the main reason I kept green was due to the support cards. So, while green doesn't have the best planeswalkers of the 3 colors, I felt it has way too many support cards (Doubling Season, ramp, and recursion) to really follow through on cutting it.
I think if you end up building a Superfriends deck you will be very happy with the green addition.
I don't think I can cut Timetwister. It is one of the main cards for card draw and I am not as concerned over giving my opponents cards (usually) as my board presence should be just better to take advantage of the draw at that time. Once I get Tamiyo 2.0's emblem, those cards are awesome to get and I don't know of any cheap draw spells I could put in its place. Of all the decks I play Timetwister in, and all the times I have cast it, I don't think I have ever been upset to cast it. Either I am far enough behind that I need it or I am just trying to continue in some play line that I want it.
I agree that Gideon, Ally of Zendikar isn't very good. I mentioned above that the main reason I am running it is because I have the SDCC Promo (which is one of the worst reasons to run a card, but oh well). I am fine with cutting it.
Elspeth Tirel is mainly there for the ultimate, but I have been finding that I never want to activate it since it affects my board too much. Here -2 ability is still good and here + can be relevant in certain cases. It is one of the few planeswalkers I won't generally ultimate, but she still does stuff to help protect other planeswalkers. I can see cutting her too.
The only reason Knight-Errant isn't in the list is because her abilities don't seem the greatest. 1 token doesn't do much and I am creature-light so her second +1 ability doesn't seem like it would do much. Her ultimate is great but it doesn't protect my planeswalkers.
Jace would actually be really good. His -2 and -8 are very relevant and quadruple Bribery off his ultimate would be awesome to pull off. I think I will cut Second Sunrise for Jace, AoT. At some point, if I can find a card, I will probably end up cutting Elspeth Tirel and Gideoan, AoZ as well but I am not sure what I want in either spot.
-Second Sunrise
+Jace, Architect of Thought
Thanks for the thoughts and suggestions.
Narset is just SO broken, I don't know if I want to up the "arms" race like that. All of our decks are fairly broken but that takes it to another level. I think just about every one of us has a Narset build in mind but we're too afraid to bring it out LOL.....
GWUBAtraxa and Her Superfriends
WUB Oloro, the Life Drain Train
URG Animar, Soul of Elements
WBR Kaalia of the Vast
BWTeysa Karlov, Scion of Orzhov
R Purphoros, Goblins of Pain ($100 Budget Challenge)
U Talrand, Fun Police (Needs updating)
GWUBAtraxa and Her Superfriends
WUB Oloro, the Life Drain Train
URG Animar, Soul of Elements
WBR Kaalia of the Vast
BWTeysa Karlov, Scion of Orzhov
R Purphoros, Goblins of Pain ($100 Budget Challenge)
U Talrand, Fun Police (Needs updating)
If Narset might be too broken, then I think adding green is the way to go so you can still hopefully keep up with the rest of the table.
But, if it works in your meta, it is a good addition.
Good point. I've been throwing around the idea of going the 'normal' route with Sliver Queen but I'm liking the idea of sticking to 3C. I think I may go with Angus. Besides, he's such a cool card haha.
As for Narset, I think people are worried that with her, unlimited turns, land destruction and board wipes will become a thing. I play Kaalia and I'm used to being hated out even though it's not that good in multiplayer, but not sure if I want to have TWO decks like that. We'll see.
GWUBAtraxa and Her Superfriends
WUB Oloro, the Life Drain Train
URG Animar, Soul of Elements
WBR Kaalia of the Vast
BWTeysa Karlov, Scion of Orzhov
R Purphoros, Goblins of Pain ($100 Budget Challenge)
U Talrand, Fun Police (Needs updating)
Very early in deckbuilding I concluded that red was not good enough to include. Black was awesome and I liked playing the deck as 4 color, but 3 color is the sweet spot for this type of deck. Others work fine as 5 color (Slivers for example) but I think with the mana requirements (many 4, 5, and 6 drops plus double color requirements) meant that it was nowhere near consistent enough with the mana base. And that is with rainbow lands and every dual.
Regarding Narset; that is a huge concern and is one reason I haven't built a non-broken version of her yet. The stigma with Narset is hard to overcome, but I think she can be one of the more fun generals if built to not combo out of nowhere. I think she might even run well as a "Chaos" general since her ability is fairly chaotic already and she has access to red for other chaos effects. And yes, unfortunately Kaalia has a reputation too so I totally understand not wanting to have another "degenerate" general at the helm of your Superfriends deck.
In either case, I think you can find some middle ground that gets you to where you want to be with this type of deck.
Dovin Baan -- His -7 ability seems fun
Nissa, Vital Force - Seems like the -3 and -6 ability could be good here
Smuggler's Copter -- Seems like with all the tokens out there, it could be a good draw engine
Also, thoughts on Skullclamp? Seems like a natural fit with so many token generators.
GWUBAtraxa and Her Superfriends
WUB Oloro, the Life Drain Train
URG Animar, Soul of Elements
WBR Kaalia of the Vast
BWTeysa Karlov, Scion of Orzhov
R Purphoros, Goblins of Pain ($100 Budget Challenge)
U Talrand, Fun Police (Needs updating)
As to Skullclamp and Smuggler's Copter; there are really only 3 token producing planeswalkers that produce tokens that would die to Clamp: Nissa and both Elspeths. And, then Gideon also creates 2/2 tokens to help crew Copter. I am already thinking of cutting Elspeth Tirel and Gideon, Ally of Zendikar (one of them would make room for Dovin Baan) which would cut down further on the tokens that could crew Smuggler's Copter. So, I just don't think there is enough in the deck to make Skullclamp and Smuggler's Copter more than marginally useful.
I haven't updated the list yet because I don't play the deck often (I have 14 decks and only play about 3 games a week) and I am waiting a little bit longer before picking up any new cards from Kaladesh. Planeswalkers especially generally drop quite a bit. Chandra has gone from $40 down to $25 - $30 in a matter of about a week or two.
But, I like your idea of Dovin and I think Nissa could be useful in the deck. I will most likely pick both up soon (within the next 2 weeks or so) so I will see how they play out. I will update the decklist at that time.
RGWMayael the AnimaRGW
UBRMarchesa, the Black RoseUBR
Modern Decks
RGWNaya BurnRGW
Since I'm not including Timetwister, that's going in that slot for my build.
GWUBAtraxa and Her Superfriends
WUB Oloro, the Life Drain Train
URG Animar, Soul of Elements
WBR Kaalia of the Vast
BWTeysa Karlov, Scion of Orzhov
R Purphoros, Goblins of Pain ($100 Budget Challenge)
U Talrand, Fun Police (Needs updating)
Also, another combo to note. Omniscience/Field Researcher emblem + Moon Sage emblem + Doubling Season + Jace, Architect of Thought ultimate = Cast every spell you want in every deck. Something to note for when you want to live the dream. Your previous combo with the Ajani pair would work with this as well.
RGWMayael the AnimaRGW
UBRMarchesa, the Black RoseUBR
Modern Decks
RGWNaya BurnRGW
GWUBAtraxa and Her Superfriends
WUB Oloro, the Life Drain Train
URG Animar, Soul of Elements
WBR Kaalia of the Vast
BWTeysa Karlov, Scion of Orzhov
R Purphoros, Goblins of Pain ($100 Budget Challenge)
U Talrand, Fun Police (Needs updating)
Don't get me wrong; Omniscience is a great addition to the deck and for most people it would be something to include so it is good to mention it. It is just that for what I am trying to do, I don't want the redundancy.
I actually don't mind tutors in general and I run Vampiric Tutor, Enlightened Tutor, Demonic Tutor, Mystical Tutor and even Wordly Tutor in a few decks. I do run Mystical Tutor in this deck because it does give me options. The main reason I am avoiding Enchantment tutors (or anything that can get Enchantments) is because I am almost always going to get Doubling Season. It just makes the deck play more linearly than I want. And, since I only have 4 enchantments, there isn't even anything remotely close to be getting beyond that so if I already have Doubling Season on the field or in my hand Academy Rector becomes a "dead" card.
Again, it is a good suggestion as it powers up the deck quite a bit (especially if Omniscience is added); just not something I want the deck to do.
That is a good catch on the Jace, Architect of Thought loop. I will keep that in mind if I can ever get to that point in the game. Casting everybody's stuff from their libraries sounds pretty fun
1) land - Sol Ring - Signet
2) land - Doubling Season
3) land - Deploy the Gatewatch - Get 2 planeswalkers and Ultimate them right away
I think they would be a good addition. I (due to personal preference) don't often play artifact ramp in green decks because I feel that artifact ramp is more vulnerable and I like the idea of games building up to something rather than just playing some massive play on turn 3. It depends on your meta and play style, but I could see the argument for adjusting the mana base to include some artifact ramp to allow for these explosive starts.
Any chance you have some additions/subtractions you'd do if you decided to make this as degenerate as possible? I'm going to be playing it in a fairly cutthroat meta.. I won't be running stuff like Timetwister but I'm going to include Omniscience, etc.
Here's where I am at right now, with some cuts to make: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/angus-mackenzie-and-his-superfriends-deck/
GWUBAtraxa and Her Superfriends
WUB Oloro, the Life Drain Train
URG Animar, Soul of Elements
WBR Kaalia of the Vast
BWTeysa Karlov, Scion of Orzhov
R Purphoros, Goblins of Pain ($100 Budget Challenge)
U Talrand, Fun Police (Needs updating)
Mana
Mana Crypt
Mox Diamond
Talisman of Progress
Talisman of Unity
Grim Monolith
Basalt Monolith
Gilded Lotus
Spells
Idyllic Tutor (might be slow, but gets both Doubling Season and Omniscience)
Power Artifact (infinite mana with Grim and Basalt Monolith)
Tezzeret the Seeker (to get all your artifacts or untap the ones you have)
Here are some cuts I could think of:
Some amount of basics depending on the amount of artifact ramp added.
Alchemist's Refuge
Kor Haven
Prahv, Spires of Order
Comeuppance
Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Elspeth Tirel
Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Gideon Jura
Jace Beleren (maybe?)
Kiora, Master of the Depths
Kiora, the Crashing Wave
Rout
The lands would be because you wouldn't be as concerned about losing in combat and they don't produce colored mana which becomes more relevant when trying to be fast and degenerate. Cutting Comeuppance would fall into the same line of thinking of not caring about combat from your opponents.
Elspeths might not do as much in a "degenerate" build as you really want to win the turn you start to go off. Both rely more on combat and Elspeth Tirel's Ultimate gets rids of everything you are building towards. Both Gideons fall into this as well. This also slightly minimizes the use of Skullclamp.
Jace Beleren is an odd one. He is pretty decent to keep your hand full and to keep going, but you can't get to his ultimate on the turn he enters and his ultimate is what you want to get you to win.
Rout might be too much since you already have Wrath of God, Supreme Verdict and Akroma's Vengeance. Since you are trying to go fast, having that additional board wipe is excessive. I think you probably don't even need Wrath of God either and just have 2 to get you out of tough situations.
Above are the suggestions I can think of to win the way I could think of using Planeswalkers as the win-con. I know I suggested cutting 7-8 planeswalkers so it might cut into the theme a little bit. It also assumes you are trying to be "degenerate" in the vein of "winning right now" instead of going to combat to win. I would say going down to 30-32 lands wouldn't be awful (again, depending on the number of artifact ramp you add).
-Wrath of God
-Elspeth Tirel
-Gideon Jura
+Supreme Verdict
+Dovin Baan
+Nissa, Vital Force
I cut Wrath of God for Supreme Verdict since I feel making it uncounterable is more relevant that shutting down Regeneration. Normally I don't have to worry about it being countered either, but counters come up more often than regeneration.
Elspeth Tirel has been underwhelming at best. I like that she can gain me life if I need it, but her ability to create tokens isn't as good a Sun's Champion since it costs loyalty and her ultimate is terrible for this deck since it blows up my entire board. I have enough to worry about with my opponents trying to get rid of my board so I don't need to help them out.
Instead of Elspeth, I decided to add Dovin Baan. He keeps digging if I need to, and his first ability can help shut down problematic creatures. Obviously, I want him for his Ultimate but while I am building to it, I feel he will have more of an impact over Elspeth.
Gideon Jura just doesn't fit the deck. None of his abilities are really relevant. I included him mostly for his +2 to help protect the rest of my planeswalkers but that usually ended up being no better than a Fog. Abdm since his other abilities just don't do much, I felt that hitting Gideon was almost always bad.
I am not really sure what the best card is to put in for Gideon. I have decided to try out Nissa, Vital Force to see what she ends up doing. She is effectively in here for her Ultimate, but her second ability could be pretty good to keep my hand full of Planeswalkers or other permanents. If I do get to her Ultimate, it lets me keep cards in my hand for the low cost of just finding a way to get a land onto the battlefield. It also makes my land ramp cards more relevant towards the late game.
I am not totally sold on Nissa, but I feel that this allows me to cut some of the underperforming planeswalkers for a couple that might at least have a little bit more impact.