Shout out to 2 players that inspired the creation of this deck. The first is Moxnix and his Prossh storm deck. It was a blast to play, and I was pumped (more than I should have been?) to be running The Great Aurora in EDH. I took it apart because I prefer Grixis storm, and I got bored of killing the table with Purphoros, God of the Forge triggers (Seriously, it’s all it did - I don’t even know why Moxnix had Tendrils of Agony in the deck :D). This deck takes elements that I picked up from piloting this deck (such as Gaea's Cradle Tech and building with The Great Aurora in mind). Around this time though I noticed Nahiri, the Lithomancer, Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath, and Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury weren’t getting much love in the commander arena so I picked them up waiting for the day that I was inspired to do something with them.
Fast forward some amount of months and I stumbled across Slivortal’s "The Green High Tide" here on the forums. The feeling that I’d been waiting for arrived. Mono Green High Tide. Create mana, draw cards, create more mana, and draw more cards. Freyalise is the commander of choice for this time of deck in my opinion because she gives draw out of the command zone. Yea it's 2 turns after you drop her, but all the while you're waiting, she's ramping you and giving you dudes to count toward's her ult. The deck really wants a turn 3 Freyalise, and if that happens, the fun begins as early as turn 5. The challenge of using Legacy High Tide as a template to build a Mono green deck was definitely the road I wanted to walk down. Plus I get to use The Great Aurora! Win, win right?
So, what does this deck do? The point of the deck follows the basic idea of High Tide Decks - Make mana, draw cards, make more mana, draw even more cards! We do this though a number of aggressively costed token producers such as Deranged Hermit and Avenger of Zendikar in combination with Gaea's Cradle and untap effects. to supplement that basic idea, we also have creature based ramp (dorks) and uptap effects as well as land ramp that gives us +1 card or more (Cultivates and Harvest Season) and of course broken mana rocks. Freyalise comes down turns 2-4 to add to the deck's overall plan by creating mana dorks and blowing up problem cards in a worse case scenario. Generally 2 turns after you case Freya you'll be able to ult her and start chaining draws spells/tutors. Tutors usually grab a token generator or regal force, but if it's early or if you have haste, they grab Priest of Titania/ Elvish Archdruid and or an uptapper.
Wining with this deck after drawing all those cards and making all that mana? Craterhoof Behemoth is the obvious inclusion but we also have bounce loops with Temur Sabertooth and token producers plus haste in Concordant Crossroads. Don't want to be bothered with aggro? Hit em with The Great Aurora into a Shaman of Forgotten Ways. More Sabertooth loops include infinite mana with Priest/Archdruid and either crossroads or Wirewood Symbiote and Quirion Ranger. With that you can loop World Breakers or Eternal Witness and Primal Commands to get rid of non creature stuff (this usually just makes people scoop on the spot)
For awhile I challenged myself to try to only use cards that have a "Freyalise Feel" to them - I was pumped since The Great Aurora could be seen as the World Spell she used to end the Ice Age. The more budget friendly Vorthos deck is below.
Thanks for the reply - Also, awesome name man, I lol'd hard once it hit me. Kodama's reach use to be in the deck, but I cut it for Nissa's Pilgrimage since it's +2 cards with spell mastery instead of +1. I'll probably put it back in for Sprouting Vines since that card is strictly worse in this iteration of the deck than Reach outside of adding a health +cards to my Great Aurora count. Explosive Vegetation is okay, but the qualms I have with it are that that lands come into play tapped and it's 1 mana more for arguably the same card advantage as Cultivate and friends. An argument could be made for Skyshroud Claim, but again at 4 mana, it doesn't help get a turn 3 Freyalise. Boundless Realms suffers the same fate, if it didn't put the lands into play tapped, it'd be awesome, but alas, I can't really "storm out" with tapped lands. Animist's Awakening on the other hand... I'll definitely need to find a cut to test that card. I understand your logic in the Momentous Fall recommendation and the logic is sound, however Life's Legacy stays because it's more of a "hit card" - as in it's better suited to help me hit relevant cards. I don't care about the instant speed since I have no creature in the deck that I worry about exile or threaten effects with. Sure if this was a "traditional" mono green dead with a bunch of big dumb animals, momentous fall would be tech, not the case here however - This is not your Grandma's Mono Green deck. Karametra's Acolyte I feel just doesn't do enough at 4 mana - however that sparked another idea! What are people's thoughts on Stone-Seeder Hierophant in this deck? Also, is it worth to put the 4 fetches I can run in here? Or is 4 not enough? Should I supplement them with other cards like Terramorphic Expanse and Evolving Wilds? Again at 4 mana I don't see Wirewood Channeler being a force in this deck, however I should probably try to test Wirewood Symbiote. Elvish Archdruid I took out when I was running skullclamp, but I'm not anymore so I don't know why I put Gauntlet back in and forgot about this dude, Thanks!Thousand-Year Elixir I can see potential in, but I don't know if it fits in the deck flavor wise.
Again, thanks for the suggestions, they really got me thinking critically - I love it! Keep em comin' friends.
I'm looking to interact more with the table as well. What are peoples thoughts on cuts for cards like Nature's Claim and Beast Within? I don't really care about Hall of Gemstone, I'd rather style on peeps when they're able to do everything they possibly can to win the game. What other cards are good spot removal/protection/utility that's good to run? Krosan Grip? What do you guys see as sub optimal that could be cut for cards like these? Also, what are thoughts on cards like Explore? Helps with storm and cantrips/ramps but is it better than a card I'm running currently? I want to up my spell count especially if I'm going to run Animist's Awakening. I'll probably keep Genesis Wave in the deck even if I up the count because it still ramps, and the combos with Praetor's Council/ Greenwarden/ E. Wit.
Thanks for the reply - Also, awesome name man, I lol'd hard once it hit me.
Thanks, bud.
Reasonable thoughts you had there. I wonder what you're up to with Stone-Seeder Hierophant, untap Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx or Gaea's Cradle? Hmm, i feel like you're taking chances with that. Its potential without them is rather limited and summoning sickness is a thing. Amulet of Vigor could be an option though. Enhances your ramp spells, especially Animist's Awakening if you get to run it.
You're right on the money with the Hierophant - untapping the Cradle and Nykthos seems good, not to mention the synergy it has with all the extra land drop cards. Yea, summoning sickness is a thing, but it also does great things with extra land drops and Earthcraft. The 4 mana cost is the only thing I'm shying away from though.
Sylvan Ranger has a lot of synergy with the deck - allows me to run a lower land count, is an elf, low drop to work with Earthcraft, and adds +1 to The Great Aurora count - this is the same reason I'm running Spontaneous Generation (this one also doubles as a win condition through combat damage). That being said, I'm always looking to improve and I'll be looking at them objectively for the cards I want to test.
I'm wondering what that rational behind the suggestion to cut Gauntlet of Power it's one of the "High Tide" effects that makes the deck so explosive. So much so that I'm thinking to also adding in Zendikar Resurgent (this one actually might be better since it turns the dorks, etc into cantrips.
Amulet of Vigor is a card I thought of, but there's no way to tutor for it, so yea, if I draw a card like Boundless Realms and not the Amulet, I'll be the saddest panda on the block.
Unravel and Deglamer are hawt! Definitely going to try and find room for them if I can.
I'm wondering what that rational behind the suggestion to cut Gauntlet of Power it's one of the "High Tide" effects that makes the deck so explosive. So much so that I'm thinking to also adding in Zendikar Resurgent (this one actually might be better since it turns the dorks, etc into cantrips.
Unravel and Deglamer are hawt! Definitely going to try and find room for them if I can.
I wouldn't cut Gauntlet of Power for good, but swap it for Caged Sun instead. For one mana more you'll get the same effect without the limitations on basics and even more important, you'd get the effect onesidedly. Dictate of Karametra has the slight advantage over the Gauntlets, that you could flash it in eot before your turn and avoid your opponents taking advantage. Zendikar Resurgent follows the same path, but i'm unsure about it's effectiveness. 27 creatures isn't particularly high and 5GG is rather expensive. It's one sided though and i'd always go for that.
Glad to see you like the instant tucks. I didn't see anyone playing them, but i think they are no brainers in EDH.
I've been playing this list on and off for a couple of weeks now, and I'm at the point where I'm all in. Over the next couple of days/weeks I'm going to seriously look at every card is the deck and where I want to deck to go. Criticisms are much appreciated and getting some discussion going would greatly help me with the deck and also to grow as a player - and I'm all about personal growth.
A couple of notes on the directions I want to take the deck:
I love The Great Aurora. it's the reason I built the deck (outside of Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury) so it's staying in. Those of you out there that have used the card to great success, what cards do you like with it? Anything I'm running now that's questionable?
Helix Pinnacle is in the hot seat. I do like having back up plans, but not being about the take extra turns reliably in Mono green hurts, in developed metas - which is where I'm want this list to shine. Decks like Niv Mizzet, The Gitrog Monster, and Nekuzar run tables and I want Freyalise to be able to hang with "the big dogs"
Lands - I'm pretty sure I need to up my land count. what number has worked for others? I'm thinking probably 34-36. Also any lands that I'm not running that I should?
Mana Doublers - How many is too many? I'm thinking Vernal Bloom, Mana Reflection, and maybe Zendikar Resurgent. I like the these over Caged Sun for a couple of reasons - they are all enchantments (I'm thinking of bolstering my draw suite with an enchantress package and up the number of enchantments I have total, so this would fit right in line - what are thoughts on this?), they don't pump so my X/1's can still get skullclamped (Gauntlet of power in on the chopping block for this reason), Vernal is cheaper, Reflection is same CMC but gets nuts with Cradle/Nykthos and mana dorks (Joraga Treespeaker gets busted), and Resurgant is 1 mana more but also draws me cards and +1's colorless mana from lands as well
Draw Suite - Need more consistent draw. Looking at Skullclamp, but that means all the cards that static pump need to go - which I would be okay with. Including Freyalise, I have 5 draw spells where creature count matter. are the 2 Mass saporling spells worth it at that point? Looking at greater good, but my creature suite are mostly weenies - any big dudes I arguably should be running? As I said before, I'm thinking of bolstering this suite with an enchantress package, what are thoughts on this? I've had great success with a Captain Sisay enchantress list, so I'm well versed with the archetype, but do you all think that's too much reaching? Any other draw spells/creatures you all feel I should be running?
Removal - in developed metas, is Desert Twister worth it? My gut feeling says no, at 6 it's too slow, but I figure I'd reach at to the community who, collectively, have played with and around the card more than I have. Any Green removal I'm missing?
Any cards in the list above that just shout "Cut me...PLEASE"?
Lands - I'm pretty sure I need to up my land count. what number has worked for others? I'm thinking probably 34-36. Also any lands that I'm not running that I should?
Removal - in developed metas, is Desert Twister worth it? My gut feeling says no, at 6 it's too slow, but I figure I'd reach at to the community who, collectively, have played with and around the card more than I have.
If you're really willing to go that far up the curve maybe Scour from Existence is a better choice. Instant speed and exile are great. But way before that Beast Within just has to be included.
Even in G i feel like 32 lands is a tad below comfortable play, 33-35 would enhance your mulligans and help with the curve.
Ha! Yea, you were right. The problem is that I was too use to playing grixis storm with like 10-13 mana rocks. I onlt have like 6 mana dorks at the moment and few rocks so my total mana threshold is low. I'll start at 34-35 and see where I go from there. Mosswort Bridge I'll be slotting in, and probably another Forest or two. I'm optimizing this list for a developed meta and I'm worried the other lands don't provide enough utility and synergy with the deck to get over the come into play tapped part. Games are usually decided by turn 5-10. What would I be copying with Thespian's Stage and Vesuva? Mosswort and Deserted Temple seem like the only worthwhile ones to me. The Cycle Lands will be on the idea list, but my gut feeling is they're too slow.
I am looking at mana dorks and rocks to add to the equation. Boreal Druid has been added, and I'll probably pick up Heritage Druid and Devoted Druid as well. I'll looking for dorks cmc 2 or less (preferably 1) to help power out Freyalise optimally by turn 3. The Archdruid was tested, but was cut for the poor synergy with Skullclamp and being cmc 3 - is that logic sound or should I still be running this guy? I do run tutors so I feel I can consistantly get to Priest of Titania which is just better. Wirewood did make it into the list I'm testing currently and I'll probably be adding in Quirion Ranger and Scryb Ranger as well. Again, I'm worried 4 cmc will be too high with the Acolyte and Wirewood Channeler. I'll more than likely be getting a Mana Crypt as well as Mox Diamond and Chrome Mox for this deck as well. I'll also be looking into Lotus petal, but any other competitive rocks I'm forgetting?
Is the suggestion for the Dictate over Vernal strictly for the flash? Arguably, this deck taps out a lot to advance its board state and the Dictate will help my opponents more than the Vernal. Don't get me wrong, I love Dictate, I run it in my G/W enchantress deck, but i'm thinking with my meta and the nature of this deck vernal is just better. I'd love to hear more in depth thoughts on the two though. On a side note, I love the Early Harvest tech with the doublers so Llanowar Druid is going to be looking for a spot too.
If you're really willing to go that far up the curve maybe Scour from Existence is a better choice. Instant speed and exile are great. But way before that Beast Within just has to be included.
Beast Within has made it in, as well as some of the artifact/enchantment tuck you mentioned earlier. I'll update my list when I get time. As always, thanks for the suggestions. They give me lots to think about!
The Archdruid was tested, but was cut for the poor synergy with Skullclamp and being cmc 3 - is that logic sound or should I still be running this guy?
Hmm, good point. The question is what wins you games more oftenly, card advantage through Skullclamp or explosive mana counts. If it's the mana count i'd even re-evaluate Wirewood Channeler and Karametra's Acolyte. The amounts the Acolyte can create are insane. Your commander and her alone is a GGG mana boost.
Since you mostly want Concordant Crossroads for activated abilities, as opposed to for attacking, Lightning Greaves sort of serves as another copy of it.
I don't even remember the last time a Cabal/Urborg combo showed up at the table since Prime Time got banned, but at worst it's a Deserted Temple so it'll get tested, haha
Hmm, good point. The question is what wins you games more oftenly, card advantage through Skullclamp or explosive mana counts. If it's the mana count i'd even re-evaluate Wirewood Channeler and Karametra's Acolyte. The amounts the Acolyte can create are insane. Your commander and her alone is a GGG mana boost.
Good points. I'll stick with the ramp package I have for now, but I'll make note of this and if I need more explosive creature ramp, I'll look at Archdruid again. If I use any of the 4 cmc guys, it'll be Acolyte before Channeler since the Acolyte would more often then not produce at lease 1 more mana since my only elf token producer is Freyalise herself.
Yea, I said Symbiote was in, but it was probably confusing since I just typed Wirewood, haha. Also I wasn't even thinking about that interaction! Thanks!
I feel like it's correct to max out on fetchlands here because you're looking at and drawing a lot of cards. There's also Lotus Cobra.
Exactly the points I was thinking. 4 fetches, but I'll be looking into the tapped fetches like Evolving Wilds and maybe even Myriad Landscape as suggested earlier.
I'll be looking into this card especially if I add the Enchantress package. This should supplement the enchantment ramp suite nicely - might be too high on the curve, but we'll see.
This is an idea, but it doesn't quite match the vision I have for the deck. I love Scroll of the Masters though, as I play it in my Hanna, Ship's Navigator deck, but in this deck Helix Pinnacle, Hunting Pack, and Craterhoof Behemoth are the combo kills of choice. Anything along those lines are good - I've been looking into Epic Struggle recently
Natural Order is broken and should go into the mono-G deck trying to do broken things.
Since you mostly want Concordant Crossroads for activated abilities, as opposed to for attacking, Lightning Greaves sort of serves as another copy of it.
Hey man, I love the deck. I've been playing with it the last couple of weeks and have gone 91-21 with it on mtgo. That is 1v1 and FFA online.
I think the best part of it is the surprise factor. No one expects the mono green player to combo off on turns 4-6. And it happens out of no where. I think the main issue when I did lose in FFA was getting teamed up on, which most of the time didn't matter. In 1v1 it would be faster combo decks since this deck has almost zero interaction, and also discard type effects wrecked this deck.
I changed a bunch of cards out of your original main list. I wanted to be as fast as possible to get the turn 4-6 wins, so I took out:
- Helix Pinnacle - I know this is another option to win, and it is great against fog; but I just never wanted to draw it.-
- Elvish Visionary - Very underwhelming card at 2, it usually was stuck in my hand because I would rather develop mana. And when playing I usually skipped playing 2cmc cards on turn 2 because of all the ramp.
- Joraga Tree - I never liked this card and thought it was super slow, but it's up to you.
- Magus of the Candelabra - This card I was on the fence about for the longest time. But I finally decided to cut it and was happy with that decision. I forget what I cut it for, but I think it is just a win more card. I never really used it early game, and in the late game I had won already for it to be necessary.
- Kamahl - Slow win more card. Always sat in my hand. I also noticed whenever I did play it, I won already. I would rather just craterhoof. The card can be fun to make peoples lands a creature when a wrath gets played though haha
- Thunderfoot Baloth - Craterhoof is stictly better, but you explained why you don't use hoof.
- Wood Elves - Wood elves is fine, I just needed to make a last cut and chose this.
- Woodland Bell - I ended up cutting this card from the start. I switched it out for worldly tutor and never looked back.
- Autumn's Veil - I cut this card for Dosan. Never had it when I needed it and could easily have searched for Dosan instead.
- Life's Legacy - This card I was also on the fence about. But I quickly realized that I always wanted the creature that I would have to sacrafice. Especially since this deck only has 2-3 ways of interacting with your own graveyard.
- Primal Command - Fine card, just decided to cut it to lower curve and it was a little slow I thought. Competed with Freyalise with 5cmc.
- The Great Aurora - Cut it to lower the curve, plus whenever I casted this I already had a big enough advantage that it was just a win more card.
- Expedition Map - Great card, just ended up cutting it for another land. Could go either way.
- Rings of Brighthearth - Card is too slow in the deck and didn't do as much as I wanted. Even with fetchlands I never wanted to use the mana for it.
- Nissa Worldwaker - Another card I just never liked, would rather have the 3 mana nissa. Plus it competed in the 5 mana slot with Freyalise. Wanted to cut down on 5 drops.
- Blighted Woodland - Too slow
- Tectonic edge - Another fine land, but I didn't like too many colorless lands. Had to mulligan a lot because of drawing too many of them. And deserted temple, ancient tomb, strip mine, and nykthos are all strictly better.
Cards that I added:
First I bumped up to 37 lands, because at first I was having issues with only 32. I also added the four fetchlands (Misty, Verdant, Wooded, Windswept), Cavern of Souls (I didn't need this too often, but when I did it was perfect), Ancient Tomb, Wirewood Lodge, Yavimaya Hollow, and Terrain Generator. Yavimaya Hollow and Terrain Generator were bad choices, so I ended up cutting them for forests. I just never used them because I was always tapped out. And wasn't going to slow my position by trying to activate one of those. Wirewood Lodge is great when it's great, but horrible when it's not. But it goes great with priest of titania, elvish archdruid, and arbor elf for when your forests are more than just +1.
+ Mana Vault and Grim Monolith - Turn 2 Freyalise with mana vault or grim monolith (Need an additonal rock to get this out like sol ring or mana crypt) is pretty much game. I never lost a game where I had a turn 2 Freyalise.
+ Skullclamp - Card draw you can't pass up
+ Caged Sun - One sided Gauntlet of Power
+ Doubling Season - I had this in the deck, but honestly it seems like a win more card. But it also allows Freyalise, Garruk, Avenger of Zend, Wolfbriar Elemental, and all the token generators to go crazy.
+ Skyshroud Claim - Great ramp
+ Reclamation Sage and Terastodon - One issue I ran into was artifact + enchantment hate in the beginning. I know Freyalise can just minus to help, but sometimes you just need more options in the creature slots to tutor up so you can still plus Freyalise. Plus you can bounce with temur sabertooth and play again.
+ Worldly Tutor - Must have in any green deck. I probably got regal force, avenger of zend, or craterhoof 99% of the time.
+ Natural Order - One of those cards that has to be played in any green deck, it is just amazing. Can plus Freyalise and natural order for anything which usually ended the game.
+ Dosan the Falling Leaf - This card is great, it saved my ass so many times. Most people forget about it and that costs them the game. This decks worst nightmare is fog and you need a way to stop it. Much better than autumn's veil I think. Plus a creature that can be tutored up by worldly, survival, natural order, and fauna shaman.
+ Elvish Archdruid - Another priest of titania and pumps all your elves. Great card that got me a lot of turn 3 Freyalise's. Plus it pumped a lot with Wirewood Lodge.
+ Craterhoof - You know why
Anyway, like I said I loved playing the deck. It was a lot of fun!
Let me know what you think about what I said. I know some people have noted these cards I added as well.
The Craterhoof I'm worried that four 8 drops (including Terastodon) is too many, did you cut any of the other 8 drops I'm running?
I agree with a bunch of the cuts you made, and I've made some of those cuts prior to reading and others you helped me see. Nissa I don't see as competing with Freyalise because I use her in an entirely different fashion. Her purpose in this deck is just for acceleration, basically another Early Harvest, but one I can use repeatably. Given the choice, I will go with Freya about 98% of the time - Nissa is just another ramp spell to me and with me running 4 Mana Flare effects, she's a pretty good ramp spell. Joraga Treespeaker has never been slow to me, can you elaborate on that? She's fine on her own, and when the deck "goes off", you can pump 8 more mana into her to make all our Llanowar's tap for double, not to mention the other non mana elves in the deck. She's nuts with Mana Reflection.
I added some of the same cards through my own testing, but I didn't even think about the Dosan! Thanks for the great suggestion. I elected to slot Zendikar Resurgant over Caged Sun, because, for 1 more mana, I can cantrip off of my creature casts. Grim seems good, but I feel Mox Diamond might be better - might run both though. I'm still playing with The Great Aurora - since that's the whole reason I build the deck - so Cultivate and Nissa's Pilgrimage give me the same +1 card that Skyshroud Claim does, plus they are 1 mana cheaper. On the subject, I cut Kodama's Reach since I was tired of drawing these effects once I started chaining draw spells. What are people's opinion about running all 3?
Added Acidic Slime for the ability to kill lands. I want to find a spot for Temur Sabertooth again to combo with the slime/big mana dork/concordant crossroads.
Added Karametra's Acolyte to test as another big mana dork - with the number of non elf permanents in the deck, she's be better than Woodwire Channeler the majority of the time.'
Thoughts?
Also, now looks at to lower the curve if I can - looking at an average CMC of 3.38. Any suggestions on swaps would be helpful.
Explore and Emerald Medallion got cut for Chrome Mox and Mana Vault. Harrow is actually -1 CA so it's bad for my Aurora plan. I can only see it pulling some weight if I have a doubler out. I love Edge of Autumn, but I don't think the sac a land to cycle is worth in this deck. What would you cut for any of these?
Doubling season is putting in work at the moment. Did some testing Tuesday and it combo'd with Freya after my Great Aurora, doubled all the token cards, and made it easy to get Treespeaker to level 5.
The Craterhoof I'm worried that four 8 drops (including Terastodon) is too many, did you cut any of the other 8 drops I'm running?
I agree with a bunch of the cuts you made, and I've made some of those cuts prior to reading and others you helped me see. Nissa I don't see as competing with Freyalise because I use her in an entirely different fashion. Her purpose in this deck is just for acceleration, basically another Early Harvest, but one I can use repeatably. Given the choice, I will go with Freya about 98% of the time - Nissa is just another ramp spell to me and with me running 4 Mana Flare effects, she's a pretty good ramp spell. Joraga Treespeaker has never been slow to me, can you elaborate on that? She's fine on her own, and when the deck "goes off", you can pump 8 more mana into her to make all our Llanowar's tap for double, not to mention the other non mana elves in the deck. She's nuts with Mana Reflection.
I added some of the same cards through my own testing, but I didn't even think about the Dosan! Thanks for the great suggestion. I elected to slot Zendikar Resurgant over Caged Sun, because, for 1 more mana, I can cantrip off of my creature casts. Grim seems good, but I feel Mox Diamond might be better - might run both though. I'm still playing with The Great Aurora - since that's the whole reason I build the deck - so Cultivate and Nissa's Pilgrimage give me the same +1 card that Skyshroud Claim does, plus they are 1 mana cheaper. On the subject, I cut Kodama's Reach since I was tired of drawing these effects once I started chaining draw spells. What are people's opinion about running all 3?
I guess it all just depends on what you want to do. If it's on paper with friends and not so competitive, I'd go with the great aurora.
But if you want to go all out, I would lean towards the the combo kill of drawing your whole deck on turn 6 and craterhoofing the table. I like that more since it has a higher chance of ending the game than Great Aurora does (From my experiences anyway). I blanked on Great Aurora a couple times.
As far as Terastodon goes and the 8 drops. I would cut Vorinclex if you are worried about that. I think you have enough mana doublers, and Vorinclex puts a huge target on your head if you are primarily playing FFA. Using terastodon on yourself is always an option, I did that a few times to up my creature count. Especially on tapped mana vault etc.
Joraga Treespeaker is just a card I never really liked. I don't luke level cards, and I don't want to dump 8 mana into a card so all my elves can make 2 green mana instead of 1. I feel like that mana can be spent better elsewhere. But if you like it, by all means it is a fine enough card to play.
I like mana vault and grim monolith way more than mox diamond and chrome mox in this deck. I still believe the turn 2 / 3 Freyalise is better via grim / vault. But hey, again it's up to you.
I had cultivate, kodoma's reach, Nissa's Pilgrimage, and Skyshroud Claim. Difference between Skyshroud is that you get two forests into play untapped, which a lot of the time was way more mana than the 4 it cost to cast them. And it also upped the storm count. Other 3 won't do that for you.
Zendikaar Resurgant vs Caged Sun is whatever. They are both fine.
I think doubling season is a win more card for sure, but it is a fun card. So I don't mind it. Plus you can cast Freyalise and instantly ultimate. I would 100% keep emerald medallion though. That card allows you to go off so much faster. And it helps all game. My thoughts anyway!
HO do you blank with the Aurora? That's never happened to me. I'm also looking at the card from a competitive stand point. Casting it on turn six has definitely enabled drawing my whole deck, it also sets opponents back in the same fashion as Warp World, but it's even better because the only permanents they can put onto the field are lands. I've Aurora'd people into 1-3 land hands tons of times on turn 5-6. Aurora is like Time Spiral in Green, but I guess we've just had different experiences with the card. When and how did you cast it when you played with it?
I'm not too worried about the 8 drops, I was just curious to know what you were running - You've rocked this deck for a bunch of games and I value your input on it. I also don't care about putting a target on my head - I generally prefer it actually - I love to challenge myself. And yea, Craterhoof will be making its way into they deck soon enough, the jank factor of Thunderfoot is getting old, haha - Though I do enjoy me some Thunderfoots.
Treespeaker also turns on cards like Reclamation Sage and Fierce Empath. I don't always go to level 5, but when that line of play is open, it's legit a lot of the time. Especially with Mana Reflection online. That turns every elf into a dark ritual +1. I personally feel you can go either way with it, like you said: it's a fine enough card; I just wanted to explain what I see in the card.
I actually got a turn 2 Freyalise off of mana vault this last Tuesday - it was sick. I'm looking at grim, but it needs a turn 1 artifact or elvish spirit guide to turn it on anyway. The Mox actually help get the turn 1 Grim, plus they add to the storm count, and get a turn 2 Freyalise when combined with either Sol Ring, Mana Vault, or Grim Monolith. With them supplementing Elvish Spirit Guide in the deck, you could even get a turn 1 Freyalise. I don't see them competing with Vault and Monolith rather being included in that fast mana ramp package. I also have Mana Crypt in the get list for that reason and I'm looking at testing Lotus Petal soon.
What do you mean by "way more mana than the 4 it cost to cast them"? Referring to mana doublers? I ended up cutting Reach when I started adding fast mana, but I can see what I can cut to test claim. I do like the fact that it puts 2 lands into play untapped. I'll also see what I can cut to get the Medallion back in here.
I would love to see your variation of my list you used. Mind posting it?
Creatures (25)
1 Arbor Elf
1 Avenger of Zendikar
1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Fierce Empath
1 Greenwarden of Murasa
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Priest of Titania
1 Regal Force
1 Shaman of Forgotten Ways
1 Temur Sabertooth
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wolfbriar Elemental
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Terastodon
1 Dosan the Falling Leaf
1 Lotus Cobra
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Elvish Archdruid
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Elvish Mystic
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
Artifacts (9)
1 Mana Crypt
1 Caged Sun
1 Sol Ring
1 Grim Monolith
1 Emerald Medallion
1 Slate of Ancestry
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Mana Vault
1 Skullclamp
Enchantments (9)
1 Carpet of Flowers
1 Sylvan Library
1 Concordant Crossroads
1 Earthcraft
1 Gaea's Touch
1 Mana Reflection
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Vernal Bloom
1 Burgeoning
I have never posted a decklist before, but here is the best that I know how haha. I think our biggest differences are just the creature base and I have 2 more lands. And we have swapped a few cards here and there like Burgeoning / Exploration, Caged Sun / Zendikaar Resurgent etc. My explanation for burgeoning is it is another option for a turn 2 Freyalise assuming you have the lands in your hand in a FFA game. It is also another card that puts a huge target on your back, but that's okay with the amount you are ramping.
What I mean by blank is sometimes The Great Aurora wouldn't fill my hands with cards that would let me win that turn. Whereas with the Craterhoof and Concordant Crossraods I would win almost always by turn 6 at the latest. And that percent increases in a 1v1 since I only need to do 40 points of damage most likely. Sure The Great Aurora almost always puts your far ahead, but if you like it go for it! Nothing bad with having two plans to victory.
Grim Monolith is just an insane card. It at least gives you a turn 3 Freyalise. And if not that, it ramps you closer to things like Tooth and Nail or The Great Aurora.
That was a typo, I meant you will get way more mana than the 4 it cost to cast Skyshroud Claim most of the time with all the mana doublers in the deck, since the two lands come into plan untapped. Or you know you cast Skyshroud Claim in the early game and have two untapped lands to play a 1-2 drop before you cast Freyalise the following turn.
As I said in the other post, I think Emerald Medallion is a great card. I would never not play it. If I were you I would cut one of the Acidic Slime / Rec Sage / Terastodon effects to try it out. Personally it would be acidic slime, or even Elvish Spirit Guide. I like Reclamation Sage over Acidic Slime here mainly for Skullclamp. You may like the deathtouch blocker though, so up to you.
Well I'm glad the list showed up, and that's for posting it! How has Shaman of Forgotten Ways been treating you? I cut him for testing purposes, but i'm trying to get him back into the deck.
Also what are your thoughts on Wolfbriar Elemental. I like him, but if he gets countered...Funny enough, I feel that generally Hunting pack or one of the 4 mana saporling spells are just better since they either get around counters, or they're cheap enough that you can keep going even if they do get countered. Windswept Heath is in the creature section - what is that card suppose to be?
Yea acidic slime is geting cut if I can't fit Sabertooth back into the deck. The whole reason I put it in the deck was to, generate enough mana to bounce it over and over to kill everyone's lands. I was reaching for Terastodon to cut but yesterday I had a game where I turn 3 Freya into a turn 4 natural order > Vorinclex > cast E wit > natural order > Terastodon blowing up the opponent's Ravnica bounce land and only other 2 lands in play. I felt dirty...
Man, I've been trying to get a Carpet of Flowers in this deck, maybe for Chrome Mox. What are your thoughts on running all 3 cultivate effects - has it been worth it to you - as I stated above I cut only and I was just curious on your thoughts. What are your thoughts on Soul's Majesty? Too cute?
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Shout out to 2 players that inspired the creation of this deck. The first is Moxnix and his Prossh storm deck. It was a blast to play, and I was pumped (more than I should have been?) to be running The Great Aurora in EDH. I took it apart because I prefer Grixis storm, and I got bored of killing the table with Purphoros, God of the Forge triggers (Seriously, it’s all it did - I don’t even know why Moxnix had Tendrils of Agony in the deck :D). This deck takes elements that I picked up from piloting this deck (such as Gaea's Cradle Tech and building with The Great Aurora in mind). Around this time though I noticed Nahiri, the Lithomancer, Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath, and Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury weren’t getting much love in the commander arena so I picked them up waiting for the day that I was inspired to do something with them.
Fast forward some amount of months and I stumbled across Slivortal’s "The Green High Tide" here on the forums. The feeling that I’d been waiting for arrived. Mono Green High Tide. Create mana, draw cards, create more mana, and draw more cards. Freyalise is the commander of choice for this time of deck in my opinion because she gives draw out of the command zone. Yea it's 2 turns after you drop her, but all the while you're waiting, she's ramping you and giving you dudes to count toward's her ult. The deck really wants a turn 3 Freyalise, and if that happens, the fun begins as early as turn 5. The challenge of using Legacy High Tide as a template to build a Mono green deck was definitely the road I wanted to walk down. Plus I get to use The Great Aurora! Win, win right?
1x Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury
Planeswalker (1)
1x Garruk Wildspeaker
Creature (27)
1x Arbor Elf
1x Avenger of Zendikar
1x Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Boreal Druid
1x Craterhoof Behemoth
1x Deranged Hermit
1x Elvish Archdruid
1x Elvish Mystic
1x Eternal Witness
1x Fauna Shaman
1x Fierce Empath
1x Fyndhorn Elves
1x Heritage Druid
1x Llanowar Elves
1x Priest of Titania
1x Quirion Ranger
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Regal Force
1x Scryb Ranger
1x Shaman of Forgotten Ways
1x Sylvan Ranger
1x Temur Sabertooth
1x Terastodon
1x Wirewood Symbiote
1x Woodland Bellower
1x World Breaker
1x Beast Within
1x Benefactor's Draught
1x Crop Rotation
1x Deglamer
1x Nature's Claim
1x Summoner's Pact
1x Worldly Tutor
Sorcery (15)
1x Collective Unconscious
1x Cultivate
1x Eldritch Evolution
1x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Harvest Season
1x Natural Order
1x Nissa's Pilgrimage
1x Primal Command
1x Rude Awakening
1x Saproling Symbiosis
1x Seasons Past
1x Shamanic Revelation
1x Spontaneous Generation
1x Sylvan Scrying
1x The Great Aurora
Enchantment (7)
1x Carpet of Flowers
1x Concordant Crossroads
1x Earthcraft
1x Exploration
1x Gaea's Touch
1x Survival of the Fittest
1x Sylvan Library
1x Chrome Mox
1x Emerald Medallion
1x Expedition Map
1x Lotus Petal
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mana Vault
1x Mox Diamond
1x Skullclamp
1x Sol Ring
Land (33)
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Deserted Temple
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Mouth of Ronom
1x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
21x Snow-Covered Forest
1x Strip Mine
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Wasteland
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills
So, what does this deck do? The point of the deck follows the basic idea of High Tide Decks - Make mana, draw cards, make more mana, draw even more cards! We do this though a number of aggressively costed token producers such as Deranged Hermit and Avenger of Zendikar in combination with Gaea's Cradle and untap effects. to supplement that basic idea, we also have creature based ramp (dorks) and uptap effects as well as land ramp that gives us +1 card or more (Cultivates and Harvest Season) and of course broken mana rocks. Freyalise comes down turns 2-4 to add to the deck's overall plan by creating mana dorks and blowing up problem cards in a worse case scenario. Generally 2 turns after you case Freya you'll be able to ult her and start chaining draws spells/tutors. Tutors usually grab a token generator or regal force, but if it's early or if you have haste, they grab Priest of Titania/ Elvish Archdruid and or an uptapper.
Wining with this deck after drawing all those cards and making all that mana? Craterhoof Behemoth is the obvious inclusion but we also have bounce loops with Temur Sabertooth and token producers plus haste in Concordant Crossroads. Don't want to be bothered with aggro? Hit em with The Great Aurora into a Shaman of Forgotten Ways. More Sabertooth loops include infinite mana with Priest/Archdruid and either crossroads or Wirewood Symbiote and Quirion Ranger. With that you can loop World Breakers or Eternal Witness and Primal Commands to get rid of non creature stuff (this usually just makes people scoop on the spot)
For awhile I challenged myself to try to only use cards that have a "Freyalise Feel" to them - I was pumped since The Great Aurora could be seen as the World Spell she used to end the Ice Age. The more budget friendly Vorthos deck is below.
1x Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury
Creature (27)
1x Arbor Elf
1x Avenger of Zendikar
1x Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Craterhoof Behemoth
1x Elvish Archdruid
1x Elvish Mystic
1x Eternal Witness
1x Fauna Shaman
1x Fierce Empath
1x Fyndhorn Elves
1x Heritage Druid
1x Joraga Treespeaker
1x Llanowar Elves
1x Lotus Cobra
1x Oracle of Mul Daya
1x Priest of Titania
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Regal Behemoth
1x Regal Force
1x Shaman of Forgotten Ways
1x Sylvan Ranger
1x Temur Sabertooth
1x Terastodon
1x Wirewood Channeler
1x Wirewood Symbiote
1x Woodland Bellower
1x Carpet of Flowers
1x Concordant Crossroads
1x Doubling Season
1x Exploration
1x Gaea's Touch
1x Mana Reflection
1x Survival of the Fittest
1x Sylvan Library
1x Vernal Bloom
Instant (5)
1x Chord of Calling
1x Crop Rotation
1x Early Harvest
1x Hunting Pack
1x Nature's Claim
Sorcery (18)
1x Collective Unconscious
1x Cultivate
1x Edge of Autumn
1x Genesis Wave
1x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Harmonize
1x Harvest Season
1x Kodama's Reach
1x Natural Order
1x Rishkar's Expertise
1x Rude Awakening
1x Saproling Symbiosis
1x Seasons Past
1x Shamanic Revelation
1x Spontaneous Generation
1x Sylvan Scrying
1x The Great Aurora
1x Tooth and Nail
1x Chrome Mox
1x Emerald Medallion
1x Expedition Map
1x Lifecrafter's Bestiary
1x Mana Vault
1x Skullclamp
1x Sol Ring
Land (33)
1x Crystal Vein
1x Deserted Temple
1x Dryad Arbor
23x Forest
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Strip Mine
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills
Comments/Suggestions/Critiques are greatly appreciated.
Kodama's Reach as a functional reprint of Cultivate should find it's way in propably any G deck. Explosive Vegetation arguably too. With all the mana stuff Animist's Awakening - especially with Spell Mastery! - and Boundless Realms to a lesser extend could be great.
Momentous Fall is a slightly better Life's Legacy, despite the fact it has higher CMC it's instant speed, so you could use it in response.
Out of all big mana dorks Karametra's Acolyte generates the most mana. Even more considering your deck is only fairly elvish. Elvish Archdruid and Wirewood Channeler would make good additions too and Thousand-Year Elixir is strictly brutal with any of the mentioned.
Again, thanks for the suggestions, they really got me thinking critically - I love it! Keep em comin' friends.
As always thanks for the help!
Reasonable thoughts you had there. I wonder what you're up to with Stone-Seeder Hierophant, untap Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx or Gaea's Cradle? Hmm, i feel like you're taking chances with that. Its potential without them is rather limited and summoning sickness is a thing. Amulet of Vigor could be an option though. Enhances your ramp spells, especially Animist's Awakening if you get to run it.
Concerning removal Nature's Claim is fine, but tbh i prefer Unravel the Æther and Deglamer, as both can tuck instructible stuff as well, such as pesky gods or Blightsteel Colossus. Beast Within and Song of the Dryads are flexible options i wouldn't wanna miss. With all the graveyard shenanigans going on Repopulate is vastly overlooked and can always be cycled if you're running out of gas.
I don't know your meta, but at least in mine Wrap in Vigor is great, since Damnation, Wrath of God and Toxic Deluge don't see too much play. One of my favorite comebacks to board wipes is Fresh Meat.
Cards i'd consider cutting:
Sylvan Ranger has a lot of synergy with the deck - allows me to run a lower land count, is an elf, low drop to work with Earthcraft, and adds +1 to The Great Aurora count - this is the same reason I'm running Spontaneous Generation (this one also doubles as a win condition through combat damage). That being said, I'm always looking to improve and I'll be looking at them objectively for the cards I want to test.
I'm wondering what that rational behind the suggestion to cut Gauntlet of Power it's one of the "High Tide" effects that makes the deck so explosive. So much so that I'm thinking to also adding in Zendikar Resurgent (this one actually might be better since it turns the dorks, etc into cantrips.
Amulet of Vigor is a card I thought of, but there's no way to tutor for it, so yea, if I draw a card like Boundless Realms and not the Amulet, I'll be the saddest panda on the block.
Unravel and Deglamer are hawt! Definitely going to try and find room for them if I can.
Zendikar Resurgent follows the same path, but i'm unsure about it's effectiveness. 27 creatures isn't particularly high and 5GG is rather expensive. It's one sided though and i'd always go for that.
Glad to see you like the instant tucks. I didn't see anyone playing them, but i think they are no brainers in EDH.
A couple of notes on the directions I want to take the deck:
I love The Great Aurora. it's the reason I built the deck (outside of Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury) so it's staying in. Those of you out there that have used the card to great success, what cards do you like with it? Anything I'm running now that's questionable?
Helix Pinnacle is in the hot seat. I do like having back up plans, but not being about the take extra turns reliably in Mono green hurts, in developed metas - which is where I'm want this list to shine. Decks like Niv Mizzet, The Gitrog Monster, and Nekuzar run tables and I want Freyalise to be able to hang with "the big dogs"
Lands - I'm pretty sure I need to up my land count. what number has worked for others? I'm thinking probably 34-36. Also any lands that I'm not running that I should?
Mana Doublers - How many is too many? I'm thinking Vernal Bloom, Mana Reflection, and maybe Zendikar Resurgent. I like the these over Caged Sun for a couple of reasons - they are all enchantments (I'm thinking of bolstering my draw suite with an enchantress package and up the number of enchantments I have total, so this would fit right in line - what are thoughts on this?), they don't pump so my X/1's can still get skullclamped (Gauntlet of power in on the chopping block for this reason), Vernal is cheaper, Reflection is same CMC but gets nuts with Cradle/Nykthos and mana dorks (Joraga Treespeaker gets busted), and Resurgant is 1 mana more but also draws me cards and +1's colorless mana from lands as well
Draw Suite - Need more consistent draw. Looking at Skullclamp, but that means all the cards that static pump need to go - which I would be okay with. Including Freyalise, I have 5 draw spells where creature count matter. are the 2 Mass saporling spells worth it at that point? Looking at greater good, but my creature suite are mostly weenies - any big dudes I arguably should be running? As I said before, I'm thinking of bolstering this suite with an enchantress package, what are thoughts on this? I've had great success with a Captain Sisay enchantress list, so I'm well versed with the archetype, but do you all think that's too much reaching? Any other draw spells/creatures you all feel I should be running?
Removal - in developed metas, is Desert Twister worth it? My gut feeling says no, at 6 it's too slow, but I figure I'd reach at to the community who, collectively, have played with and around the card more than I have. Any Green removal I'm missing?
Any cards in the list above that just shout "Cut me...PLEASE"?
Thanks in advance for the help/discussion!
- Command Beacon
- Dust Bowl
- Maze of Ith
- Mosswort Bridge
- Mutavault
- Myriad Landscape
- Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
- Thespian's Stage
- Vesuva
- Wirewood Lodge
If you're concerned about draw the 3 cycle lands could be options (Blasted Landscape | Slippery Karst | Tranquil Thicket). Besides doublers i'd consider more mana dorks, especially Karametra's Acolyte | Elvish Archdruid | Wirewood Channeler. Instead of Vernal Bloom i'd choose Dictate of Karametra. If you're really willing to go that far up the curve maybe Scour from Existence is a better choice. Instant speed and exile are great. But way before that Beast Within just has to be included.Ha! Yea, you were right. The problem is that I was too use to playing grixis storm with like 10-13 mana rocks. I onlt have like 6 mana dorks at the moment and few rocks so my total mana threshold is low. I'll start at 34-35 and see where I go from there. Mosswort Bridge I'll be slotting in, and probably another Forest or two. I'm optimizing this list for a developed meta and I'm worried the other lands don't provide enough utility and synergy with the deck to get over the come into play tapped part. Games are usually decided by turn 5-10. What would I be copying with Thespian's Stage and Vesuva? Mosswort and Deserted Temple seem like the only worthwhile ones to me. The Cycle Lands will be on the idea list, but my gut feeling is they're too slow.
I am looking at mana dorks and rocks to add to the equation. Boreal Druid has been added, and I'll probably pick up Heritage Druid and Devoted Druid as well. I'll looking for dorks cmc 2 or less (preferably 1) to help power out Freyalise optimally by turn 3. The Archdruid was tested, but was cut for the poor synergy with Skullclamp and being cmc 3 - is that logic sound or should I still be running this guy? I do run tutors so I feel I can consistantly get to Priest of Titania which is just better. Wirewood did make it into the list I'm testing currently and I'll probably be adding in Quirion Ranger and Scryb Ranger as well. Again, I'm worried 4 cmc will be too high with the Acolyte and Wirewood Channeler. I'll more than likely be getting a Mana Crypt as well as Mox Diamond and Chrome Mox for this deck as well. I'll also be looking into Lotus petal, but any other competitive rocks I'm forgetting?
Is the suggestion for the Dictate over Vernal strictly for the flash? Arguably, this deck taps out a lot to advance its board state and the Dictate will help my opponents more than the Vernal. Don't get me wrong, I love Dictate, I run it in my G/W enchantress deck, but i'm thinking with my meta and the nature of this deck vernal is just better. I'd love to hear more in depth thoughts on the two though. On a side note, I love the Early Harvest tech with the doublers so Llanowar Druid is going to be looking for a spot too.
Beast Within has made it in, as well as some of the artifact/enchantment tuck you mentioned earlier. I'll update my list when I get time. As always, thanks for the suggestions. They give me lots to think about!
I don't even remember the last time a Cabal/Urborg combo showed up at the table since Prime Time got banned, but at worst it's a Deserted Temple so it'll get tested, haha
Good points. I'll stick with the ramp package I have for now, but I'll make note of this and if I need more explosive creature ramp, I'll look at Archdruid again. If I use any of the 4 cmc guys, it'll be Acolyte before Channeler since the Acolyte would more often then not produce at lease 1 more mana since my only elf token producer is Freyalise herself.
Yea, I said Symbiote was in, but it was probably confusing since I just typed Wirewood, haha. Also I wasn't even thinking about that interaction! Thanks!
Exactly the points I was thinking. 4 fetches, but I'll be looking into the tapped fetches like Evolving Wilds and maybe even Myriad Landscape as suggested earlier.
I'll be looking into this card especially if I add the Enchantress package. This should supplement the enchantment ramp suite nicely - might be too high on the curve, but we'll see.
This is an idea, but it doesn't quite match the vision I have for the deck. I love Scroll of the Masters though, as I play it in my Hanna, Ship's Navigator deck, but in this deck Helix Pinnacle, Hunting Pack, and Craterhoof Behemoth are the combo kills of choice. Anything along those lines are good - I've been looking into Epic Struggle recently
Truth, haha. Truth all day AND tomorrow.
Yep, it's going in the deck
Greaves is something to look at, but I think at that point Thousand-Year Elixir is just better. Crossroads I also you for game ending attacks like Avenger of Zendikar and Craterhoof Behemoth or storming out with Hunting Pack
Great Thoughts you two, great stuff to think about
I think the best part of it is the surprise factor. No one expects the mono green player to combo off on turns 4-6. And it happens out of no where. I think the main issue when I did lose in FFA was getting teamed up on, which most of the time didn't matter. In 1v1 it would be faster combo decks since this deck has almost zero interaction, and also discard type effects wrecked this deck.
I changed a bunch of cards out of your original main list. I wanted to be as fast as possible to get the turn 4-6 wins, so I took out:
- Helix Pinnacle - I know this is another option to win, and it is great against fog; but I just never wanted to draw it.-
- Elvish Visionary - Very underwhelming card at 2, it usually was stuck in my hand because I would rather develop mana. And when playing I usually skipped playing 2cmc cards on turn 2 because of all the ramp.
- Joraga Tree - I never liked this card and thought it was super slow, but it's up to you.
- Magus of the Candelabra - This card I was on the fence about for the longest time. But I finally decided to cut it and was happy with that decision. I forget what I cut it for, but I think it is just a win more card. I never really used it early game, and in the late game I had won already for it to be necessary.
- Kamahl - Slow win more card. Always sat in my hand. I also noticed whenever I did play it, I won already. I would rather just craterhoof. The card can be fun to make peoples lands a creature when a wrath gets played though haha
- Thunderfoot Baloth - Craterhoof is stictly better, but you explained why you don't use hoof.
- Wood Elves - Wood elves is fine, I just needed to make a last cut and chose this.
- Woodland Bell - I ended up cutting this card from the start. I switched it out for worldly tutor and never looked back.
- Autumn's Veil - I cut this card for Dosan. Never had it when I needed it and could easily have searched for Dosan instead.
- Life's Legacy - This card I was also on the fence about. But I quickly realized that I always wanted the creature that I would have to sacrafice. Especially since this deck only has 2-3 ways of interacting with your own graveyard.
- Primal Command - Fine card, just decided to cut it to lower curve and it was a little slow I thought. Competed with Freyalise with 5cmc.
- The Great Aurora - Cut it to lower the curve, plus whenever I casted this I already had a big enough advantage that it was just a win more card.
- Expedition Map - Great card, just ended up cutting it for another land. Could go either way.
- Rings of Brighthearth - Card is too slow in the deck and didn't do as much as I wanted. Even with fetchlands I never wanted to use the mana for it.
- Nissa Worldwaker - Another card I just never liked, would rather have the 3 mana nissa. Plus it competed in the 5 mana slot with Freyalise. Wanted to cut down on 5 drops.
- Blighted Woodland - Too slow
- Tectonic edge - Another fine land, but I didn't like too many colorless lands. Had to mulligan a lot because of drawing too many of them. And deserted temple, ancient tomb, strip mine, and nykthos are all strictly better.
Cards that I added:
First I bumped up to 37 lands, because at first I was having issues with only 32. I also added the four fetchlands (Misty, Verdant, Wooded, Windswept), Cavern of Souls (I didn't need this too often, but when I did it was perfect), Ancient Tomb, Wirewood Lodge, Yavimaya Hollow, and Terrain Generator. Yavimaya Hollow and Terrain Generator were bad choices, so I ended up cutting them for forests. I just never used them because I was always tapped out. And wasn't going to slow my position by trying to activate one of those. Wirewood Lodge is great when it's great, but horrible when it's not. But it goes great with priest of titania, elvish archdruid, and arbor elf for when your forests are more than just +1.
+ Mana Vault and Grim Monolith - Turn 2 Freyalise with mana vault or grim monolith (Need an additonal rock to get this out like sol ring or mana crypt) is pretty much game. I never lost a game where I had a turn 2 Freyalise.
+ Skullclamp - Card draw you can't pass up
+ Caged Sun - One sided Gauntlet of Power
+ Doubling Season - I had this in the deck, but honestly it seems like a win more card. But it also allows Freyalise, Garruk, Avenger of Zend, Wolfbriar Elemental, and all the token generators to go crazy.
+ Skyshroud Claim - Great ramp
+ Reclamation Sage and Terastodon - One issue I ran into was artifact + enchantment hate in the beginning. I know Freyalise can just minus to help, but sometimes you just need more options in the creature slots to tutor up so you can still plus Freyalise. Plus you can bounce with temur sabertooth and play again.
+ Worldly Tutor - Must have in any green deck. I probably got regal force, avenger of zend, or craterhoof 99% of the time.
+ Natural Order - One of those cards that has to be played in any green deck, it is just amazing. Can plus Freyalise and natural order for anything which usually ended the game.
+ Dosan the Falling Leaf - This card is great, it saved my ass so many times. Most people forget about it and that costs them the game. This decks worst nightmare is fog and you need a way to stop it. Much better than autumn's veil I think. Plus a creature that can be tutored up by worldly, survival, natural order, and fauna shaman.
+ Elvish Archdruid - Another priest of titania and pumps all your elves. Great card that got me a lot of turn 3 Freyalise's. Plus it pumped a lot with Wirewood Lodge.
+ Craterhoof - You know why
Anyway, like I said I loved playing the deck. It was a lot of fun!
Let me know what you think about what I said. I know some people have noted these cards I added as well.
This made my week! I'm glad I got a chance to add value to you with the deck! That win ration is quite impressive as well!
I've been making a bunch of edits to the deck; most of my testing is in paper and my chances reflect that. I'll post an updated deck list soon.
I'm working on getting a Craterhoof Behemoth and an Ancient Tomb, as well as a Mana Crypt for the deck. Maybe even a Wasteland - Though, that would make me really want to put Crucible of Worlds in the deck - which I should arguable already have in the deck...
The Craterhoof I'm worried that four 8 drops (including Terastodon) is too many, did you cut any of the other 8 drops I'm running?
I agree with a bunch of the cuts you made, and I've made some of those cuts prior to reading and others you helped me see. Nissa I don't see as competing with Freyalise because I use her in an entirely different fashion. Her purpose in this deck is just for acceleration, basically another Early Harvest, but one I can use repeatably. Given the choice, I will go with Freya about 98% of the time - Nissa is just another ramp spell to me and with me running 4 Mana Flare effects, she's a pretty good ramp spell. Joraga Treespeaker has never been slow to me, can you elaborate on that? She's fine on her own, and when the deck "goes off", you can pump 8 more mana into her to make all our Llanowar's tap for double, not to mention the other non mana elves in the deck. She's nuts with Mana Reflection.
I added some of the same cards through my own testing, but I didn't even think about the Dosan! Thanks for the great suggestion. I elected to slot Zendikar Resurgant over Caged Sun, because, for 1 more mana, I can cantrip off of my creature casts. Grim seems good, but I feel Mox Diamond might be better - might run both though. I'm still playing with The Great Aurora - since that's the whole reason I build the deck - so Cultivate and Nissa's Pilgrimage give me the same +1 card that Skyshroud Claim does, plus they are 1 mana cheaper. On the subject, I cut Kodama's Reach since I was tired of drawing these effects once I started chaining draw spells. What are people's opinion about running all 3?
1x Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury
Creature (27)
1x Acidic Slime
1x Arbor Elf
1x Avenger of Zendikar
1x Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Dosan the Falling Leaf
1x Elvish Archdruid
1x Elvish Mystic
1x Elvish Spirit Guide
1x Eternal Witness
1x Fauna Shaman
1x Fierce Empath
1x Fyndhorn Elves
1x Joraga Treespeaker
1x Karametra's Acolyte
1x Llanowar Elves
1x Lotus Cobra
1x Oracle of Mul Daya
1x Priest of Titania
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Regal Force
1x Scryb Ranger
1x Terastodon
1x Thunderfoot Baloth
1x Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
1x Wirewood Symbiote
1x Wolfbriar Elemental
1x Concordant Crossroads
1x Doubling Season
1x Earthcraft
1x Exploration
1x Gaea's Touch
1x Mana Reflection
1x Survival of the Fittest
1x Sylvan Library
1x Vernal Bloom
1x Zendikar Resurgent
Planeswalker (2)
1x Garruk Wildspeaker
1x Nissa, Worldwaker
Sorcery (16)
1x Collective Unconscious
1x Cultivate
1x Genesis Wave
1x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Harmonize
1x Natural Order
1x Nissa's Pilgrimage
1x Praetor's Counsel
1x Rude Awakening
1x Saproling Symbiosis
1x Shamanic Revelation
1x Soul's Majesty
1x Spontaneous Generation
1x Sylvan Scrying
1x The Great Aurora
1x Tooth and Nail
1x Crystal Vein
1x Deserted Temple
1x Dryad Arbor
23x Forest
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Strip Mine
1x Thespian's Stage
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills
Instant (5)
1x Crop Rotation
1x Early Harvest
1x Emerald Charm
1x Hunting Pack
1x Worldly Tutor
Artifact (5)
1x Chrome Mox
1x Expedition Map
1x Mana Vault
1x Skullclamp
1x Sol Ring
Added Acidic Slime for the ability to kill lands. I want to find a spot for Temur Sabertooth again to combo with the slime/big mana dork/concordant crossroads.
Added Karametra's Acolyte to test as another big mana dork - with the number of non elf permanents in the deck, she's be better than Woodwire Channeler the majority of the time.'
Thoughts?
Also, now looks at to lower the curve if I can - looking at an average CMC of 3.38. Any suggestions on swaps would be helpful.
Doubling season is putting in work at the moment. Did some testing Tuesday and it combo'd with Freya after my Great Aurora, doubled all the token cards, and made it easy to get Treespeaker to level 5.
I guess it all just depends on what you want to do. If it's on paper with friends and not so competitive, I'd go with the great aurora.
But if you want to go all out, I would lean towards the the combo kill of drawing your whole deck on turn 6 and craterhoofing the table. I like that more since it has a higher chance of ending the game than Great Aurora does (From my experiences anyway). I blanked on Great Aurora a couple times.
As far as Terastodon goes and the 8 drops. I would cut Vorinclex if you are worried about that. I think you have enough mana doublers, and Vorinclex puts a huge target on your head if you are primarily playing FFA. Using terastodon on yourself is always an option, I did that a few times to up my creature count. Especially on tapped mana vault etc.
Joraga Treespeaker is just a card I never really liked. I don't luke level cards, and I don't want to dump 8 mana into a card so all my elves can make 2 green mana instead of 1. I feel like that mana can be spent better elsewhere. But if you like it, by all means it is a fine enough card to play.
I like mana vault and grim monolith way more than mox diamond and chrome mox in this deck. I still believe the turn 2 / 3 Freyalise is better via grim / vault. But hey, again it's up to you.
I had cultivate, kodoma's reach, Nissa's Pilgrimage, and Skyshroud Claim. Difference between Skyshroud is that you get two forests into play untapped, which a lot of the time was way more mana than the 4 it cost to cast them. And it also upped the storm count. Other 3 won't do that for you.
Zendikaar Resurgant vs Caged Sun is whatever. They are both fine.
I think doubling season is a win more card for sure, but it is a fun card. So I don't mind it. Plus you can cast Freyalise and instantly ultimate. I would 100% keep emerald medallion though. That card allows you to go off so much faster. And it helps all game. My thoughts anyway!
I'm not too worried about the 8 drops, I was just curious to know what you were running - You've rocked this deck for a bunch of games and I value your input on it. I also don't care about putting a target on my head - I generally prefer it actually - I love to challenge myself. And yea, Craterhoof will be making its way into they deck soon enough, the jank factor of Thunderfoot is getting old, haha - Though I do enjoy me some Thunderfoots.
Treespeaker also turns on cards like Reclamation Sage and Fierce Empath. I don't always go to level 5, but when that line of play is open, it's legit a lot of the time. Especially with Mana Reflection online. That turns every elf into a dark ritual +1. I personally feel you can go either way with it, like you said: it's a fine enough card; I just wanted to explain what I see in the card.
I actually got a turn 2 Freyalise off of mana vault this last Tuesday - it was sick. I'm looking at grim, but it needs a turn 1 artifact or elvish spirit guide to turn it on anyway. The Mox actually help get the turn 1 Grim, plus they add to the storm count, and get a turn 2 Freyalise when combined with either Sol Ring, Mana Vault, or Grim Monolith. With them supplementing Elvish Spirit Guide in the deck, you could even get a turn 1 Freyalise. I don't see them competing with Vault and Monolith rather being included in that fast mana ramp package. I also have Mana Crypt in the get list for that reason and I'm looking at testing Lotus Petal soon.
What do you mean by "way more mana than the 4 it cost to cast them"? Referring to mana doublers? I ended up cutting Reach when I started adding fast mana, but I can see what I can cut to test claim. I do like the fact that it puts 2 lands into play untapped. I'll also see what I can cut to get the Medallion back in here.
I would love to see your variation of my list you used. Mind posting it?
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Misty Rainforest
24 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Strip Mine
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Deserted Temple
1 Wirewood Lodge
1 Cavern of Souls
Creatures (25)
1 Arbor Elf
1 Avenger of Zendikar
1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Fierce Empath
1 Greenwarden of Murasa
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Priest of Titania
1 Regal Force
1 Shaman of Forgotten Ways
1 Temur Sabertooth
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wolfbriar Elemental
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Terastodon
1 Dosan the Falling Leaf
1 Lotus Cobra
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Elvish Archdruid
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Elvish Mystic
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
Artifacts (9)
1 Mana Crypt
1 Caged Sun
1 Sol Ring
1 Grim Monolith
1 Emerald Medallion
1 Slate of Ancestry
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Mana Vault
1 Skullclamp
Enchantments (9)
1 Carpet of Flowers
1 Sylvan Library
1 Concordant Crossroads
1 Earthcraft
1 Gaea's Touch
1 Mana Reflection
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Vernal Bloom
1 Burgeoning
Instants and Sorceries
1 Early Harvest
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Natural Order
1 Sylvan Scrying
1 Collective Unconscious
1 Rude Awakening
1 Genesis Wave
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Harmonize
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Nissa's Pilgrimage
1 Praetor's Counsel
1 Crop Rotation
1 Emerald Charm
1 Cultivate
1 Saproling Symbiosis
1 Shamanic Revelation
1 Soul's Majesty
1 Spontaneous Generation
1 Hunting Pack
1 Tooth and Nail
Planeswalkers
1 Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
I have never posted a decklist before, but here is the best that I know how haha. I think our biggest differences are just the creature base and I have 2 more lands. And we have swapped a few cards here and there like Burgeoning / Exploration, Caged Sun / Zendikaar Resurgent etc. My explanation for burgeoning is it is another option for a turn 2 Freyalise assuming you have the lands in your hand in a FFA game. It is also another card that puts a huge target on your back, but that's okay with the amount you are ramping.
What I mean by blank is sometimes The Great Aurora wouldn't fill my hands with cards that would let me win that turn. Whereas with the Craterhoof and Concordant Crossraods I would win almost always by turn 6 at the latest. And that percent increases in a 1v1 since I only need to do 40 points of damage most likely. Sure The Great Aurora almost always puts your far ahead, but if you like it go for it! Nothing bad with having two plans to victory.
Grim Monolith is just an insane card. It at least gives you a turn 3 Freyalise. And if not that, it ramps you closer to things like Tooth and Nail or The Great Aurora.
That was a typo, I meant you will get way more mana than the 4 it cost to cast Skyshroud Claim most of the time with all the mana doublers in the deck, since the two lands come into plan untapped. Or you know you cast Skyshroud Claim in the early game and have two untapped lands to play a 1-2 drop before you cast Freyalise the following turn.
As I said in the other post, I think Emerald Medallion is a great card. I would never not play it. If I were you I would cut one of the Acidic Slime / Rec Sage / Terastodon effects to try it out. Personally it would be acidic slime, or even Elvish Spirit Guide. I like Reclamation Sage over Acidic Slime here mainly for Skullclamp. You may like the deathtouch blocker though, so up to you.
Well I'm glad the list showed up, and that's for posting it! How has Shaman of Forgotten Ways been treating you? I cut him for testing purposes, but i'm trying to get him back into the deck.
Also what are your thoughts on Wolfbriar Elemental. I like him, but if he gets countered...Funny enough, I feel that generally Hunting pack or one of the 4 mana saporling spells are just better since they either get around counters, or they're cheap enough that you can keep going even if they do get countered. Windswept Heath is in the creature section - what is that card suppose to be?
Yea acidic slime is geting cut if I can't fit Sabertooth back into the deck. The whole reason I put it in the deck was to, generate enough mana to bounce it over and over to kill everyone's lands. I was reaching for Terastodon to cut but yesterday I had a game where I turn 3 Freya into a turn 4 natural order > Vorinclex > cast E wit > natural order > Terastodon blowing up the opponent's Ravnica bounce land and only other 2 lands in play. I felt dirty...
Man, I've been trying to get a Carpet of Flowers in this deck, maybe for Chrome Mox. What are your thoughts on running all 3 cultivate effects - has it been worth it to you - as I stated above I cut only and I was just curious on your thoughts. What are your thoughts on Soul's Majesty? Too cute?