MTG Salvation

Oh boy, here we go. This was a challenge from a buddy to make this guy more playable. The following decklist was created after much theory-crafting, and has not been created in paper. After getting some external opinions I may make it on mtgo for playtesting.









It is essentially an all-in funky combo deck around abusing Ith's interaction with either Illusionist's Bracers or Mesmeric Orb, so we can combo with untap creatures, or self-mill us into some graveyard antics.


The combo's work entirly due to Ith being able to attack, not tapping due to his vigilance, and his activated ability not requiring the target to actually be a tapped creature. With just Ith himself attacking we can create a state of infinite tap+untap triggers. Add in mesmeric orb and we can mill ourselves (with basalt monolith acting as a nice backup). Equip Ith with illusionist's bracers and we can infinitely untap any creature with a tap ability that attacked with Ith.

The combo using bracers can generate infinite mana, infinite draw, infinite self-mill, or infinite damage via pingers.

With a pinger the game just ends. With Mangara of Corondor the opponents loose their entire board.

With infinite mana we can draw ourselves out of the game with sphinx's revelation to find blue sun's zenith or stroke of genius to then deck the opponent.

With infinite mill we can fill our graveyard to win with laboratory maniac, or do silly shenanigans by reanimating Emeria Shepherd and casting planar birth.





There is a lot of potential for alternative combos too. Combo interactions could also include infinite life-gain with Silent Attendant, or an enchantment theme via the mill and utilize Replenish. The potential for infinite pump is here, but is nerfed by our own generals damage-prevention clause. We could make an infinite/infinite Lodestone Myr, Kabuto Moth, Streambed Aquitects or Angelic Page, but they will negate their own damage. I feel that Mikaeus, the Lunarch and Clockwork Vorac are still worth running since the counters will stick around and trample helps. Sadly the other candidates like Wake Thrasher, Steel Overseer, and Clockwork Hydra have zero evasion for us to benefit from.


This first draft is an all-in combo approach. I tried to include a nice assortment of graveyard recursive spells to try and keep the all-important illusionist's bracers or mesmeric orb coming back. Making cuts was brutal as the decklist already feels really stretched tight.

I know that relying on a 7-cmc general is pretty bad idea, but this looks super fun. I'm looking for all sorts of feedback and ideas to help improve this list.

Kind of a weird list you've got here but I'm into weird so here we go.

• Pemmin's Aura protects Ith and makes mini-combos with a lot of your other creatures.
• Celestial Colonnade is pricey, but it's sort of a free way to include another mana creature for the purposes of comboing. Similar for Faerie Conclave, except it's dirt cheap.
• Speaking of over-priced cards that are only a little better here than cheap ones, Jace, Vryn's Prodigy is usually going to be an upgrade over Reckless Scholar.
• Every line of text on Trading Post is awesome, especially if you've got specific artifacts to reconstruct. Buried Ruin is also good for that, plus it lets you squeeze a little bit more value out of your mana base.
• Basilisk Collar goes great with pingers.
• Stoneforge Mystic, Steelshaper's Gift and Open the Armory all grab Basilisk Collar as well as stuff like Sword of the Paruns and Paradise Mantle, which could be combo pieces.
• When going infinite, can you reliably win the game when you're only generating infinite W and/or C (as opposed to U)? If not then some of your mana dorks should be reconsidered.
• I understand wanting to support Endbringer with (Thawing Glaciers-fetchable) Wastes, but you don't really need 4 of them to do that. Adarkar Wastes is better than at least one copy. Then Terminal Moraine/Warped Landscape are better than another Wastes so we can shave them down to at most 2.
• Muddle the Mixture is great for combo decks where a 2 CMC card is part of the combo.
• Fatestitcher plays nice with all your activated abilities, and even combos with Mesmeric Orb and Maze of Ith.
• Similarly, Rings of Brighthearth works great with a lot of cards you're already running and it combos with Basalt Monolith.

Infinite combos with Maze of Ith and things like Argothian Elder have been around forever so it's nice to see a Commander deck centered around them. I'm gonna give this deck some more thought. Finally, I realize that some of these options aren't really options because of money cost (lookin' at you Jace), but I suggested them just for completeness.

Oh ya I didn't even think about the manlands. I've also never ran wastes in EDH yet so I'm not too sure how frequently they will be needed. I will need to tweak the manabase asap.

My original list of 200+ cards had every pinger, filter, and mana-dork to evaluate, and I had some serious non-bo's. Some ideal goodies like bonded fetch and jace, vyrn's prodigy had to be cut when I realized they were just bricks and didn't combo. I didn't even realize that half of my original conceptual idea bricked since Ith prevented combat damage

Basilisk Collar should also go in too, since it is a nice way to stay alive. From the outside this deck looks like it has some dead time after resolving some cheap mana-dorks up to when it can land Ith, and having a death-toucher as a blocker is a nice way to fend people away.

I really like the idea of paradise mantle here. Like Oracle's Insight it can make any dork into a needed combo-dork.

A big fraction of this deck could be removed in favor of creating a more stable generic white/blue deck. For example the pinger section, the looter section, or the mana-dork section could each be removed to help strengthen the rest of the decks potential.

I had considered just not running any of the looters/draw guys in favor of some Ith combat stuff like Stonehewer Giant/swords of x+y/loxodon warhammer/eldrazi conscription/righteous authority/steel of the godhead. Without so much space being dedicated to lab-man / creature recursion / self mill the deck has lots of room to work with.



Thanks for the feedback mate!

Alright, so here's my take on the deck:



I've tried to do pretty much what you set out to: build an all-in combo deck with Ith as the central combo piece. With so many tutors and now Rings of Brighthearth in the deck, I felt that having Basalt Monolith would be too much of a distraction from the theme. Really hate that card as a ramp spell, too. I added a few more primary combos and a ton of "incidental" combos as well. The incidental combos should rarely be sought out because they involve so many cards, but all those cards do other things in the deck and you may just have some "Oops, I win" moments with them. Some of the combos here don't involve Ith, but the cards in them are all part of combos that do. In other words combos not fitting the theme are not forced, but just sort of fall out of the deck (pretty sure it's safe to say that Maze of Ith is on theme). Here's my best effort at a listing, inclduding the combos from the OP for completeness. There are probably other more intricate combos hiding in this pile, too.

Primary Combos

• Ith, High Arcanist + Mesmeric Orb + Laboratory Maniac = Eventually turn over Deep Analysis and win the game during your second main phase. DA could possibly be Soul of Ravnica instead, so that if infinite mana was generated as well as infinite mills you can use that to win. Probably not worth it, especially because of how well DA fits a curve which starts with Silver Myr.
• Ith, High Arcanist + Wake Thrasher = Arbitrarily large merfolk soldier. This is the reason why Rogue's Passage is hiding out (no pun intended) with the lands.
• Ith, High Arcanist + Illusionist's Bracers + ((A Mana Dork) or (A Spell With Awaken) or (A Creature-Land)) = Infinite mana. Since these combos happen exclusively during the combat phase, I feel that the infinite mana must be blue for it to do anything useful. Sure, there are cards like Armistice and Magma Mine, but ew. It also makes the deck heavily favor instant speed card draw spells over sorcery speed ones, which is a shame since Compulsive Research, Concentrate and Plea for Power fit the curve like DA does. If the "mana dork" is Fatestitcher or Tidewater Minion then Mikokoro, Center of the Sea lets you draw your deck with this combo.
• Ith, High Arcanist + Illusionist's Bracers + (A Looter) = Eventually loot into Laboratory Maniac, turn over Deep Analysis and win the game during your second main phase. If you've got enough cards in hand at the start of the combo, you can look into Lotus Petal and Mana Crypt, i.e. just enough mana to cast Laboratory Maniac. That probably means those powerful rocks should be in the deck, and up to three moxes as well. I chose Deal Broker over something like Cephalid Broker because several cards in the deck care about having artifacts.

Incidental Combos

• Maze of Ith + (A Spell With Awaken) = Build-your-own Ith! This combo then becomes a piece in any other combo that involves Ith.
• (Fatestitcher or Tidewater Minion) + Maze of Ith + Mesmeric Orb + Laboratory Maniac = Eventually turn over Deep Analysis and win the game during your second main phase.
• Ith, High Arcanist + Rings of Brighthearth + (A Spell With Awaken) + Lotus Vale = Infinite mana.
• Ith, High Arcanist + Rings of Brighthearth + (A Spell With Awaken) + (Azorius Chancery or Coral Atoll or Teferi's Isle or Soldevi Excavations) + Caged Sun = Infinte mana. Coral Atoll and Soldevi Excavations need you to have an Island in order to function, which is why I nearly maxed the deck out on fetchlands; Tundra, Hallowed Fountain and Prairie Stream are Islands that tap for W.
• Ith, High Arcanist + Rings of Brighthearth + (Aphetto Alchemist or Fatestitcher or Tidewater Minion) + Gilded Lotus = Infinite mana. The other mana dorks, mana rocks, and artifact lands are my attempt at making Aphetto Alchemist into a consistent ramp spells when it's not part of a combo.
• Ith, High Arcanist + (A Spell With Awaken) + (Azorius Chancery or Coral Atoll or Teferi's Isle or Soldevi Excavations) + Wake Thrasher = Arbitrarily large merfolk soldier.
• Ith, High Arcanist + (A Spell With Awaken) + (Azorius Chancery or Coral Atoll or Teferi's Isle or Soldevi Excavations) + Mesmeric Orb + Laboratory Maniac = Eventually turn over Deep Analysis and win the game during your second main phase.

Many of the incidental combos require a few deck-building contortions, so it's probably worth saying a few words about why including some corner-case 4+ card combos is worth the effort. Firstly, while this is a combo deck it's a "funky" combo deck and it doesn't get much funkier than untapping Teferi's Isle with Tidewater Minion. More seriously the hoops to jump through are not that high. The spells with Awaken are all a little over-costed for what they do, but their effects are real things you'd want to be doing in a normal game of EDH. Some of the 2+ mana lands are a little bit better than the others (Azorius Chancery >> Lotus Vale), but all of them have been known to see some play in this format. Caged Sun is not at its best in a multi-color deck, but Soldevi Excavations and Coral Atoll are already forcing us to run lots of Islands so it fits a bit better than it should. Rings of Brighthearth is another new card that's mostly around for the combos, but it's a spectacular card in its own right. Oddly enough Soldevi Excavations and Coral Atoll also force us to make Rings better by providing more incentive to run lots of fetchlands. The various looting effects and anything out of Trading Post are fun things to copy when you're not going infinite.

If Gilded Lotus were to somehow become a creature, it could get in on some more of these combos. Nevertheless, I don't think it's worthwhile to run any artifact animation effects. Part of this is because there's basically no redundancy for the Lotus. Khalni Gem is the closest, and it's not really close. Also, none of the artifact animation cards do anything else, in contrast to the spells with Awaken. Speaking of artifacts, there are two artifact-centric cards that are right on the bubble: Arcum Dagsson and Argivian Archaeologist. The former should be pretty good in a deck with lots of cheap artifact creatures that wants to find specific non-creature artifacts, but we wouldn't be tutoring for anything expensive so Tezzeret the Seeker would probably just be better. The Archaeologist does a great job of accruing card advantage and protecting the combo, but it's probably just too slow and clunky. It would enable this mondo-combo, though:

• Ith, High Arcanist + Rings of Brighthearth + Argivian Archaeologist + Leyline of Anticipation + Black Lotus = Infinite mana and disqualification.

Sweet list, I like that focused take. I didn't even think about the creature-rocks or awaken spells working for Ith either

I actually ended up cutting Wake Thrasher after initial evaluation since I thought it would just be blocked forever. If Clockwork Vorrac or Mikaeus, the Lunarch survived for a turn after doing the Ith dance then we are living the dream, but surviving for a turn is a lot to ask for.

I would still suggest adding mangara of corondor tho, just too nasty

I think my initial goal was a bit too ambitious. By removing a block of combos (in your case the pingers), it does make for a much more stable and reliable deck.

I think the weakest part of this is still the 7cmc general w/o protection. I wish there were more room for boots or a better control package to keep him safe. If suspend would work from the command zone this would be so much easier to make into a threatening deck since you would be able to protect him the turn he comes in (and he would have haste). Silly rules.

Quote from Macabre »

I actually ended up cutting Wake Thrasher after initial evaluation since I thought it would just be blocked forever.

That makes sense, but I'd still like to give the fish soldier a try. A big part of the reason for that is that it's an actual factual two-card combo in a deck that's more about four-card combos. Plus, with a Rogue's Passage, it becomes a player sniping three-card combo.

I would still suggest adding mangara of corondor tho, just too nasty

Return to Dust is generic good stuff removal whereas Mangara fills a similar role and functions as a combo piece. Seems like an easy swap.

I think my initial goal was a bit too ambitious. By removing a block of combos (in your case the pingers), it does make for a much more stable and reliable deck.

I have a pathological love of pingers going back many years, but I don't like them in this deck. The issue is that they don't do much of anything when you're not already comboing out. I'd rather have another mana dork or a looter or something to keep the density of combo pieces high without running too many blanks. Endbringer is a major exception, and I should probably find room for it. Completely reasonable card for any ol' EDH deck and it combos in several ways with this one.

I think the weakest part of this is still the 7cmc general w/o protection. I wish there were more room for boots or a better control package to keep him safe. If suspend would work from the command zone this would be so much easier to make into a threatening deck since you would be able to protect him the turn he comes in (and he would have haste). Silly rules.

Yeah, and what sucks worse is that Lightning Greaves shuts down all our combos. Swiftfoot Boots doesn't though, and haste is great here. There's also Hall of the Bandit Lord, which is going to look real slick on the combo turn and kinda silly during the rest of the game. I suppose looters are substantially improved by haste, too, so that's something. In deference to Ith's high casting cost my list has 40 lands so maybe one of them should be Temple of the False God. Who needs basic lands, anyway?

Edit: To clear some room it's probably safe to cut Transmute Artifact and Stoneforge Mystic since, while I might put this deck together I'm not shelling out for those expensive cards. Fortunately I already own Tundra and fetch-lands, but for those who don't there's basics and Terramorphic Expanse, Evolving Wilds, Bant Panorama and Esper Panorama to try and play white cards while supporting Coral Atoll and Soldevi Excavations.

When I was drawing up that list I was thinking about what a shame it is that Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx can't really be another 2+ mana land because of the deck's low devotion. But is the devotion really so low? Looters help and pingers, especially Thornwind Faeries would help, too. Maybe Stroke of Genius could become Soothsaying. Leyline of Anticipation virtually protects the combo since you can cast pieces at end of turn, it makes actually winning with infinite mana more likely, and it brings nice devotion with it. Think there's any way the deck can support Nythos?

First off, I really like this deck its different from the typical fair. Second, I am curious what other ideas you have explored with this. Like extra turns or other tap effects.

When I first started this brew I searched in gather for all non black/green/red creatures that had a free-to-activate tap ability. A large chunk of these creatures were immediately ignored (Lodestone Myr, Kabuto Moth, Streambed Aquitects or Angelic Page), since Ith prevents the combat damage. There was also life gain creatures (like Silent Attendant), but that doesn't win games.

The next large chunks of creatures were pingers, draw/looters, and mana dorks, which could win a game.

In that search there were very few other creatures of significant relevance to the deck. clockwork vorrac/mangara of corondor/mikaeus, the lunarch felt playable, but there was also steel overseer and clockwork hydra. I didn't like him since he didn't have trample/evasion.

There was one inspired card that seemed playable in arbiter of the ideal, since it could potentially put your entire deck into play if it gets equipped with some tap-equipment/enchantment. That would really only work in an all-permanent deck, which seems nearly impossible to assemble the combo w/o tutors.

dismiss into dream was also on my original radar since the deck had a chunk of pingers, but was cut due to manacost, and I also had my eyes on Order of Whiteclay, but he tapped the wrong way for me and required mana.



Creature-wise that is all we really have to work with at this time. I had considered animating artifacts as creatures so staff of nin/scepter of empires could ping-death and otherworld atlas/pyxis of pandemonium could enable lab-man, but that seemed far too dream-land.


Animating lands like Hunding Gjornersen suggested seems like the smartest progression for this deck, since that makes bazaar of baghdad a very quick lab-man enabling win. Shame we don't have a dread return variant in these colors.


I've been working on an updated list and will update my post shortly

Does your playgroup allow you to suspend Ith, High Arcanist from the command zone?

I have always wanted to build an Ith deck myself, but that was not allowed and it was the only way that I'd play him.

I don't know if Hunding Gjornersen has built this in paper to test with yet, but my list and designs are all still in the theory-craft phase. I do plan on assembling this for actual testing and to fill the white+blue void in my EDH collection, but I can pretty much assume the net performance of this deck against my tables already.

The most common tables that I play at are all fairly competitive in nature, so I doubt they would permit me to suspend Ith from the command zone, otherwise this would make for a fairly threatening deck. The issue is not the cheaper cost from the command zone, but the fact that he comes in with haste and would leave you with full mana untapped to protect the combo. Every turn-2 you would suspend him and then spend the next four turns looking for a combo enabler and counter-magic.

While that doesn't sound very threatening to opponents that frequently can to find uncounterable answers or multiple answers, and suspending Ith really is not that broken compared to what other decks in this format can do, I know most of my friends will point out how he comes in with haste while I have fully untapped mana, and wouldn't allow it.

If this were not a combo deck then I doubt anyone would ever care if you suspended Ith.

Quote from Macabre »

If this were not a combo deck then I doubt anyone would ever care if you suspended Ith.

I understand. To me Ith is the ultimate pillow-fort general and I would have built him as such. Too bad suspend doesn't work from the command zone.

I know the OP said all in combo but what about this combo in a stax shell since this is in blue & white? Keep opponents a few steps behind as we ramp into the commander and hopefully their resources are so jammed up that they cant disrupt the combo when youre set up to go off.

Quote from Macabre »

dismiss into dream was also on my original radar since the deck had a chunk of pingers, but was cut due to manacost...

Cowardice shaves 2 off the CMC for a similar effect.

Quote from umtiger »

Does your playgroup allow you to suspend Ith, High Arcanist from the command zone?

Quote from Macabre »

I don't know if Hunding Gjornersen has built this in paper to test with yet, but my list and designs are all still in the theory-craft phase.

Nope, not yet. The idea of a turbo-combo Ith deck is pretty appealing so I might pull the trigger and order the cards I'm missing soon.

I don't think there's a real need here to bend the rules and allow Ith to be suspended from the Command Zone. It would be completely great for the deck, but that's not a reason to allow it.

If this were not a combo deck then I doubt anyone would ever care if you suspended Ith.

Yup.

Quote from JamesTheIV »

I know the OP said all in combo but what about this combo in a stax shell since this is in blue & white? Keep opponents a few steps behind as we ramp into the commander and hopefully their resources are so jammed up that they cant disrupt the combo when youre set up to go off.

I don't know about Stax, but I do like the idea of being able to pretend to be a control deck until it's time to combo-kill the table. It's tough to run another strategy subtheme when you're trying to assemble four-card combos.

Command Beacon is now a good way to get Ith to your hand, if your group doesn't let you suspend from command zone.