Hello. This is the first decklist I have posted in this forum, and the second Commander deck I have created. The impetus for posting this was that someone offsite wanted to see the list, and this was the easiest method of presentation. However, now that I've posted it, this is an excellent opportunity for me to observe the evolution of one of my decks from its start, so I will hopefully keep track of my changes and experiences here.
I picked up a Commander precon when they first came out, but was not able to play much until recently, when my friends started putting together decks. So my group is very much just starting out, and all of us are green. It is a very casual group, at least where this format is concerned. I will spoil the decks I've seen so far below in case anyone's interested:
Conveniently, three players' initials are the first three letters of the alphabet!
A. Daretti, Scrap Savant. Has been borrowing this deck from J. Very unsure of this format; feels games can be too long and complex. If he builds anything himself, it will likely be Izzet.
J. Xenagos, God of Revels. Good gosh does this thing get big. Player will probably be the first to add additional decks to the pool.
Myself. Kaalia of the Vast. Not tuned for competitiveness. And now Skithiryx, too (which may be leant to A. as well).
I just finished putting the deck together yesterday, so it is as yet unplayed. Several cards will probably change once I've tried it and gotten a feel for what doesn't work and what's missing, and where the ratios should sit. Current mindset is I guess fairly control-ey given the proportion of creature removal; I don't have to worry about disrupting combos because there aren't any in my meta as of yet.
Feedback from interested parties is welcome, though I must note I try not to spend more than $3.00 for a card except on rare occasions (if there's anything in this list over that I must have had it kicking around), and since this is a fairly casual deck I see no reason not to indulge my Vorthos ticks a little (the biggest one you'll note is that all the cards have been printed in Modern frames). I'll be happy to respond to any whys and wherefores as well.
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
This deck looks like it will be an interesting one to play against, I and Xenagos will be throwing a Beatdown Bash so as to Welcome to the fold... There will be a surprise friend for you to meet THH, I hope you and Scthiryx are ready.
They're above your budget, but Necropotence and Cabal Coffers are the best cards you can play in a monoblack deck. I would prioritize getting them before anything else.
I think you're running too few lands. I would bump it up to around, say, 38 or so to consistently hit your land drops until turn 6 when you can cast a hasty Skittles. Basic Swamps would be good choices since your mana doublers all rely on them. I'm not a fan of Barren Moor, Everglades, Mortuary Mire, Polluted Mire, or Zoetic Cavern, but if they work for you that's what matters. I'm not sure they're better than Swamps, though.
You're probably running too few creatures. Having a board presence in EDH is pretty important. Bloodgift Demon is a fine choice, as is Graveborn Muse. Also, Crypt Ghast is your best friend. A doubler with the ability to gain some life every now and then is a bargain for four mana (and yes, it can be played in monoblack despite Extort). In the same vein Magus of the Coffers is almost as good.
Your card draw is mostly good, but the expensive artifacts have to go. They're just awful cards. Black has arguably the best draw in the format, so there's no reason to be running bad cards like that. You could safely cut them and add in the Ambition's Cost and Wretched Confluence from your to add list and more or less be fine. Also, the aforementioned Necropotence is just stupidly good.
As for your ramp, I think you could use a few more 2cmc rocks like Coldsteel Heart, Thought Vessel, Star Compass, Fellwar Stone, Everflowing Chalice, etc. Early game ramp makes your cheap draw spells pure value, and they help you hit that all important 6 mana as early as possible. Dreamstone Hedron is far too expensive, even if it can be traded for draw when it's no longer useful. You're already packing tons of draw.
Now, your removal. Way, way, way too much spot removal. You'll quickly fall behind if you try to trade 1 for 1s with three opponents. You need more sweepers like Life's Finale or Decree of Pain. Even Perilous Vault is fine. I would cut around half of your spot removal to make room for more lands, more ramp, and more creatures. I notice you're not really running any reanimation like Animate Dead or graveyard recursion like Phyrexian Reclamation. Those are some really solid effects that slide into almost any monoblack deck.
Your equipment package is okay for a budget list. You only have to give Skittles +1/+0 or +2/+0 depending on when you equip, so even cards like Bonesplitter are okay. Sword of Vengeance is a fine card.
Thanks for the feedback! It's very helpful. I'm glad to hear an opinion on the creature count especially, as that's something I was unsure on - 'can I run a creature-light mono-black control list in this format?' was my thinking (hence the amount of removal as well). I have some more creatures I can add in, including three of the four you mentioned (I'm missing Graveborn Muse). How is Baleful Force?
I'm mildly surprised to hear the draw artifacts are so bad in this format, but they're an easy drop. I hadn't been thinking of my draw spells' CMC as a ramp target; that's very insightful and I shall see about swapping in some cheaper rocks. Of the more expensive ones, perhaps Unstable Obelisk, for its ability to destroy noncreature permanents, and Caged Sun, as a doubler, should stay?
Cut half the spot removal: that's definitely the kind of advice I need in terms of ratios. I'll see about adding some more sweepers - I'm surprised Decree of Pain isn't considered too expensive at twice a ***. I wasn't running any reanimation because my creature count was so low I was afraid it would be dead (although I suppose some of it targets opponents' graveyards). I can maybe add some in now I'm upping the creature count.
About the tutors, I'm saving them all for another deck whose mechanical theme is tutoring, but yeah, I guess I should have maybe mentioned the reason for such a glaring omission!
Thanks again for the feedback. I think I'm playing my first game with this deck later today (unfortunately only one-on-one), so I'll be able to get a feel for it a little before typing up a final list of changes to make. Cheers!
Edit: Forgot to talk about lands. I'm curious as to why you say 38. The rule of thumb I was following was 40 - (rocks / 2 + less-efficient ramp / 3). Is there a better rule of thumb I can follow? Also, how many rocks should I run? A lot of decks I see seem to run around eight, which is what I aim for.
Baleful Force is alright. It's certainly powerful, but I think it's a little costly. Ideally on turn 7 you're swinging for lethal at someone with Skithiryx, after equipping it with something, so it'll come down on turns 8+ and draw three a round. Pretty strong (and on a big body, to boot!) but like I said, pricy.
Obelisk and Caged Sun are fine choices. Decree is a little overpriced but if you can untap after drawing 8+ cards from a Wrath you're in a great position to win the game. The other reason I recommended it is that it's a budget Wrath. I don't include it in my tuned list but it's still a solid choice. Don't forget its cycle effect. As for reanimation, if you're playing against Xenagos and Avacyn, odds are okay that they have some solid fatties. Reclamation basically says 1B, pay 2 life: Draw a relevant card, even with a small creature package. It's particularly powerful with the Fleshbag Marauder effects, and ramping with Burnished Hart.
Dropping a land for every (cheap) mana rock is solid advice, but rather than starting at 40 lands you might want to look at starting at 41 or 42. Control decks (and MBC specifically) really want those land drops, and your list in particular wants every land drop until at least turn 6. You might be able to get by with 37, as I've considered with all the card draw my deck runs, but I wouldn't go lower than 36 even with all of the 2cmc rocks in the game. How many rocks? Depends on the deck. Your deck probably wants a lot since you have a pseudo-aggro agenda with your general. 8 sounds somewhat right.
Thanks for the further insight, GloriousGoose. I've taken a number of your suggestions already, but won't be able to acquire some of the cards for a few weeks. I'll update my list at that time.
Allanon, thanks; I did know about Hatred, but Howl from Beyond is new to me. I'm not super familiar with the old-bordered cards. It seems decent, though I'm not ecstatic that it's a one-off effect. Thanks for the suggestion!
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I picked up a Commander precon when they first came out, but was not able to play much until recently, when my friends started putting together decks. So my group is very much just starting out, and all of us are green. It is a very casual group, at least where this format is concerned. I will spoil the decks I've seen so far below in case anyone's interested:
A. Daretti, Scrap Savant. Has been borrowing this deck from J. Very unsure of this format; feels games can be too long and complex. If he builds anything himself, it will likely be Izzet.
B. Avacyn, Angel of Hope. Very Timmy player. Can gain a lot of life.
C. Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas. Currently absent. Very aggro.
J. Xenagos, God of Revels. Good gosh does this thing get big. Player will probably be the first to add additional decks to the pool.
Myself. Kaalia of the Vast. Not tuned for competitiveness. And now Skithiryx, too (which may be leant to A. as well).
I just finished putting the deck together yesterday, so it is as yet unplayed. Several cards will probably change once I've tried it and gotten a feel for what doesn't work and what's missing, and where the ratios should sit. Current mindset is I guess fairly control-ey given the proportion of creature removal; I don't have to worry about disrupting combos because there aren't any in my meta as of yet.
Feedback from interested parties is welcome, though I must note I try not to spend more than $3.00 for a card except on rare occasions (if there's anything in this list over that I must have had it kicking around), and since this is a fairly casual deck I see no reason not to indulge my Vorthos ticks a little (the biggest one you'll note is that all the cards have been printed in Modern frames). I'll be happy to respond to any whys and wherefores as well.
5 Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
Creatures (10)
3 Fleshbag Marauder
3 Merciless Executioner
3 Burnished Hart
4 Hand of the Praetors
4 Phyrexian Vatmother
4 Slum Reaper
6 Necropolis Regent
6 Phyrexian Juggernaut
6 Thopter Assembly
7 Deathbringer Regent
Draw (13)
1 Skeletal Scrying
2 Damnable Pact
2 Night’s Whisper
2 Sign in Blood
3 Read the Bones
4 Ancient Craving
4 Bitter Revelation
4 Syphon Mind
4 Seer’s Sundial
4 Tapestry of the Ages
5 Caress of Phyrexia
5 Illuminated Folio
5 Tamiyo’s Journal
Ramp (10)
1 Sol Ring
2 Charcoal Diamond
2 Jet Medallion
2 Mind Stone
2 Plague Myr
3 Commander’s Sphere
3 Unstable Obelisk
4 Hedron Archive
6 Caged Sun
6 Dreamstone Hedron
1 Executioner’s Capsule
2 Black Sun’s Zenith
2 Doom Blade
2 Geth’s Verdict
2 Go for the Throat
2 Profane Command
2 Terror
2 Victim of Night
3 Dismember
3 Murder
3 Reckless Spite
4 Barter in Blood
4 Chill to the Bone
4 Tendrils of Corruption
4 Mutilate
4 Aligned Hedron Network
4 Nevinyrral’s Disk
5 Crux of Fate
5 Dregs of Sorrow
6 Enslave
6 Grip of Desolation
Other (10)
1 Tainted Strike
2 Contagion Clasp
2 Hero’s Blade
2 Inquisitor’s Flail
2 Stormrider Rig
3 Fireshrieker
3 Grafted Wargear
4 Snake Cult Initiation
4 Lashwrithe
4 Nightmare Lash
21 Swamp
1 Barren Moor
1 Blighted Fen
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cathedral of War
1 Crucible of the Spirit Dragon
1 Encroaching Wastes
1 Everglades
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Haunted Fengraf
1 Mortuary Mire
1 Myriad Landscape
1 Polluted Mire
1 Rogue’s Passage
1 Zoetic Cavern
Cards to get: Arcane Lighthouse, Mystifying Maze, Tectonic Edge, Malicious Affliction, Eyeblight's Ending, Hero's Downfall, Necroskitter, Worn Powerstone, Ambition's Cost, Snuff Out, Wretched Confluence
Cards under consideration: Everflowing Chalice, Sangromancer, Bloodgift Demon, Harvester of Souls, Life's Finale, Scour from Existence, Spine of Ish Sah, Whispersilk Cloak et. al., Lightning Greaves from my Kaalia deck (but that means Kaalia doesn't get them)
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Edit: Quoted someone's post to figure it out. Turns out a blank line between a heading and the list kills the heading.
I think you're running too few lands. I would bump it up to around, say, 38 or so to consistently hit your land drops until turn 6 when you can cast a hasty Skittles. Basic Swamps would be good choices since your mana doublers all rely on them. I'm not a fan of Barren Moor, Everglades, Mortuary Mire, Polluted Mire, or Zoetic Cavern, but if they work for you that's what matters. I'm not sure they're better than Swamps, though.
You're probably running too few creatures. Having a board presence in EDH is pretty important. Bloodgift Demon is a fine choice, as is Graveborn Muse. Also, Crypt Ghast is your best friend. A doubler with the ability to gain some life every now and then is a bargain for four mana (and yes, it can be played in monoblack despite Extort). In the same vein Magus of the Coffers is almost as good.
Your card draw is mostly good, but the expensive artifacts have to go. They're just awful cards. Black has arguably the best draw in the format, so there's no reason to be running bad cards like that. You could safely cut them and add in the Ambition's Cost and Wretched Confluence from your to add list and more or less be fine. Also, the aforementioned Necropotence is just stupidly good.
As for your ramp, I think you could use a few more 2cmc rocks like Coldsteel Heart, Thought Vessel, Star Compass, Fellwar Stone, Everflowing Chalice, etc. Early game ramp makes your cheap draw spells pure value, and they help you hit that all important 6 mana as early as possible. Dreamstone Hedron is far too expensive, even if it can be traded for draw when it's no longer useful. You're already packing tons of draw.
Now, your removal. Way, way, way too much spot removal. You'll quickly fall behind if you try to trade 1 for 1s with three opponents. You need more sweepers like Life's Finale or Decree of Pain. Even Perilous Vault is fine. I would cut around half of your spot removal to make room for more lands, more ramp, and more creatures. I notice you're not really running any reanimation like Animate Dead or graveyard recursion like Phyrexian Reclamation. Those are some really solid effects that slide into almost any monoblack deck.
Your equipment package is okay for a budget list. You only have to give Skittles +1/+0 or +2/+0 depending on when you equip, so even cards like Bonesplitter are okay. Sword of Vengeance is a fine card.
Also, no tutors? Diabolic Tutor, Beseech the Queen, Increasing Ambition, and Diabolic Revelation are excellent for finding the answer you need to prevent someone from winning or finding the vital piece you need to win.
Hope this helped.
[Primer] Erebos, God of the Dead
HONK HONK
I'm mildly surprised to hear the draw artifacts are so bad in this format, but they're an easy drop. I hadn't been thinking of my draw spells' CMC as a ramp target; that's very insightful and I shall see about swapping in some cheaper rocks. Of the more expensive ones, perhaps Unstable Obelisk, for its ability to destroy noncreature permanents, and Caged Sun, as a doubler, should stay?
Cut half the spot removal: that's definitely the kind of advice I need in terms of ratios. I'll see about adding some more sweepers - I'm surprised Decree of Pain isn't considered too expensive at twice a ***. I wasn't running any reanimation because my creature count was so low I was afraid it would be dead (although I suppose some of it targets opponents' graveyards). I can maybe add some in now I'm upping the creature count.
About the tutors, I'm saving them all for another deck whose mechanical theme is tutoring, but yeah, I guess I should have maybe mentioned the reason for such a glaring omission!
Thanks again for the feedback. I think I'm playing my first game with this deck later today (unfortunately only one-on-one), so I'll be able to get a feel for it a little before typing up a final list of changes to make. Cheers!
Edit: Forgot to talk about lands. I'm curious as to why you say 38. The rule of thumb I was following was 40 - (rocks / 2 + less-efficient ramp / 3). Is there a better rule of thumb I can follow? Also, how many rocks should I run? A lot of decks I see seem to run around eight, which is what I aim for.
Obelisk and Caged Sun are fine choices. Decree is a little overpriced but if you can untap after drawing 8+ cards from a Wrath you're in a great position to win the game. The other reason I recommended it is that it's a budget Wrath. I don't include it in my tuned list but it's still a solid choice. Don't forget its cycle effect. As for reanimation, if you're playing against Xenagos and Avacyn, odds are okay that they have some solid fatties. Reclamation basically says 1B, pay 2 life: Draw a relevant card, even with a small creature package. It's particularly powerful with the Fleshbag Marauder effects, and ramping with Burnished Hart.
Dropping a land for every (cheap) mana rock is solid advice, but rather than starting at 40 lands you might want to look at starting at 41 or 42. Control decks (and MBC specifically) really want those land drops, and your list in particular wants every land drop until at least turn 6. You might be able to get by with 37, as I've considered with all the card draw my deck runs, but I wouldn't go lower than 36 even with all of the 2cmc rocks in the game. How many rocks? Depends on the deck. Your deck probably wants a lot since you have a pseudo-aggro agenda with your general. 8 sounds somewhat right.
Also, man, Crux of Fate is spicy with Skithiryx.
[Primer] Erebos, God of the Dead
HONK HONK
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls - Knowledge is Power U [Primer]
R Heartless Hidetsugu - The Art of Ending Games R
GB Ishkanah, Grafwidow - The Cluster HungersBG
Allanon, thanks; I did know about Hatred, but Howl from Beyond is new to me. I'm not super familiar with the old-bordered cards. It seems decent, though I'm not ecstatic that it's a one-off effect. Thanks for the suggestion!