MTG Salvation

This is a deck I want to start testing. Looks like there isn't an active thread for it and a couple of us wanted to have a discussion so I thought I'd make a new one.

Here is a list I've only messed around with a bit. It probably sux and needs a lot of tweaking.


Let the discussion begin

Awesome! I just put together a Obzedat list myself... I'm going to be playing it this weekend probably...


If ur going to be playing that many token generators.... the contamination lock may be pretty good.

Quote from SmiIey »

Awesome! I just put together a Obzedat list myself... I'm going to be playing it this weekend probably...


If ur going to be playing that many token generators.... the contamination lock may be pretty good.

Good point. I wasn't sure if I should use it or not. I wonder if I'd need to add some white generating mana rocks first.

Oops, I somehow missed gerrards verdict and hymn to tourach in my list when transferring from my phone. Good call on Contamination. How easy is it to set up that combo? I'm reluctant to add it because the cards are kinda meh on their own.

I like the Shizo in your list. What do you think of Dark Tutelage?

Quote from Dodge »

Setting up the Helm of Obedience combo is actually pretty hard. It looks easy on paper because it's just 2 cards and you've got all these tutors, but I've only pulled it off once in my 2 days of testing. I guess I just need more practice. 2/3 of the cards are pretty good on their own, by the way. Helm of Obedience is useless but Leyline of the Void and Rest in Peace shut a lot of things down.

I think I might leave the combo out until I've had time to test my current list a bit more. I'll see how badly it needs an I win button. I like the idea of walker token's being my win con. Especually if using Ghost Council if Orzova as the general. I reccomend you at least try him. It's nice to be able to avoid your own board wipes as well as instant speed removal

I'm stoked to see this thread because I'm gathering the the b/w staples for duel commander right now with a (naive?) focus on getting a little-teysa list together but there are so few resources out there for anything Orzhov in duel and it seems the consensus is that she's not too great. Obzedat, on the other hand, has a few top 8's and seems like a good build around for a control shell. I'll be following this thread closely and hopefully will be able to contribute where I can.

Quote from thepatrickswayzeexpress »

I'm stoked to see this thread because I'm gathering the the b/w staples for duel commander right now with a (naive?) focus on getting a little-teysa list together but there are so few resources out there for anything Orzhov in duel and it seems the consensus is that she's not too great. Obzedat, on the other hand, has a few top 8's and seems like a good build around for a control shell. I'll be following this thread closely and hopefully will be able to contribute where I can.

3 out of the 4 Top eights of Obz are from the same guy here in Brazil. His list is very good against creatures but not very much against control. The Teysa list on the other hand smashed every control player it faced. lt is aggro and not combo btw. l should know since it took me out of the top eight when l was playing Esper Reanimator (we both were 4-1). He also doesn't appear that much because he works on another mtg store and they run other events on Saturdays.

Quote from Dodge »

The Teysa list you linked has the blasting station combo. It might not be its main wincon, but its there.

Even just 2/3s of that combo Painter's Servant/Teysa, Orzhov Scion= Infinite exile if you have 3 creatures to sac. It also runs the Revel-Angel combo. Imo, teysa is a combo deck with agressive tendencies

lt has combos. lt does not focus on combos. The main focus is beatdown to apply pressure and the combos are "opps l win" that every commander should have in them. Had he been a combo deck instead of an aggro deck control would have a better time against him.

Edit: He's not a dedicated combo deck. That's what l meant by "he was aggro and not combo".

Edit n2: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/forum-1-vs-1-duel-commander/663689-teysa-orzhov-scion

Quote from balangaz »

lt has combos. lt does not focus on combos. The main focus is beatdown to apply pressure and the combos are "opps l win" that every commander should have in them. Had he been a combo deck instead of an aggro deck control would have a better time against him.

Edit: He's not a dedicated combo deck. That's what l meant by "he was aggro and not combo".

Edit n2: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/forum-1-vs-1-duel-commander/663689-teysa-orzhov-scion

I think if he were to play against an aggro deck like Marath, Alesha or Bellstriker he would have to focus on combo. There is no way she could win a damage race. The strategy probably changes depending on the matchup.

What exactly is the definition of a "combo deck"? I get confused on what is and isn't combo. Some people call Animar, Elfball, Teysa, Meren, High Tide combo. None of these are really dedicated to combo. The only dedicated combo deck I can think of is Sidisi but even then some would argue she's mono black control.

Quote from FearDReaper »

I think if he were to play against an aggro deck like Marath, Alesha or Bellstriker he would have to focus on combo. There is no way she could win a damage race. The strategy probably changes depending on the matchup.

What exactly is the definition of a "combo deck"? I get confused on what is and isn't combo. Some people call Animar, Elfball, Teysa, Meren, High Tide combo. None of these are really dedicated to combo. The only dedicated combo deck I can think of is Sidisi but even then some would argue she's mono black control.

We have a lot of Marath and Zurgos playing in our meta. We even have 2 White Weenies. He does win the damage race. Of course you play differently against each commander but he does see himself as the aggressor.

l see dedicated combo decks as ones that have the focus on winning via combo. Old marath's primary wincon was to Twin people out. Clique's wincon is to Poly-Emrakul into play as many times as it needs to win. lmperial Animar is to establish the loop and win. Some Jaces are storm. The old Prosh with food-chain. Doomsday. There are several dedicated combos around.

lMO decks that have combos but aren't dedicated are ones that have a main wincon in other places (Locking with stax effects or beatdown) but can win with a combo. We have an Ojutai that focus on controlling the game and winning with the Dragon but it also has the Rlp-Helm combo as another win-con. He does not always go for the RlP-Helm and the dec is not focused on powering the combo out as fast as possible. That's why we don't see it as a dedicated combo dec.

Quote from balangaz »

We have a lot of Marath and Zurgos playing in our meta. We even have 2 White Weenies. He does win the damage race. Of course you play differently against each commander but he does see himself as the aggressor.

Interesting, I would have assumed otherwise. I used to play Teysa a while back and I had a ***** of a time against my buddies Rafiq deck. That being said I had just started playing magic back then and a lot of new cards have been printed since. I still play Teysa in regular EDH but it's a very differrnt format so it's hard to compare.

I came to the conclusion she was just bad in DC but maybe I should revisit her.

Quote from francisfrancis »

Obzedat is the way to go and where is the abyss?

Ooh nice card. That is probably the best reason I've seen yet to go for Obzedat over Orzhova. You can stack the triggers so this resolves before Obzedat enters play right? I didn't even think of abusing triggers like that! Smokestack can't touch Obzedat eithor right? anything else?

Quote from francisfrancis »

Quote from FearDReaper »

Quote from francisfrancis »

Obzedat is the way to go and where is the abyss?

Ooh nice card. That is probably the best reason I've seen yet to go for Obzedat over Orzhova. You can stack the triggers so this resolves before Obzedat enters play right?

yes this is how you do it... also abyss gets around hexproof

I was on the fence with this deck before but I think I just fell in love.

Quote from francisfrancis »

Quote from FearDReaper »

Quote from francisfrancis »

Obzedat is the way to go and where is the abyss?

Ooh nice card. That is probably the best reason I've seen yet to go for Obzedat over Orzhova. You can stack the triggers so this resolves before Obzedat enters play right?

yes this is how you do it... also abyss gets around hexproof

No it does not... Just read the oracle text. lt's not a sac effect. lt targets and it's still your effect:

Card Text: At the beginning of each player's upkeep, destroy target nonartifact creature that player controls of his or her choice. It can't be regenerated.

Rullings:

4/10/2004 - The controller of The Abyss controls the ability, but the current player chooses what gets destroyed.

That being said you should still run The Abyss if you have access to it.

Glad to hear I have some options either way. Hopefully this thread could be a bit of a resource for b/w in general because I have scoured the interweb far and wide and haven't found a whole lot. My first focus is Teysa though so in keeping in line with the this threads primary subject I'll have to use some reservations.

Anything other than The Abyss and Smokestack with triggers that can be favourably stacked with Obzedat, Ghost Council?

Descent into Madness and Anowon, the Ruin Sage are probably to slow right?

What do you guys think of Sorin, Grim Nemesis?

Edit: I'm not sold on Nether Void. I only like The Abyss/Smokestack/Descent into Madness because Obzedat breaks its symmetry, otherwise I wouldn't use em. I don't think the deck really breaks Nether Void's symmetry.

Quote from Etienne »

Quote from FearDReaper »

I only like The Abyss/Smokestack/Descent into Madness because Obzedat breaks its symmetry, otherwise I wouldn't use em.

Ghost Council does break it. Not Obzedat.

How?

Quote from Etienne »

And if you remove ghost Council responding to Smokestack, Smokestack will force you to sacrifice another 2 permanents.

True but on the final tick of smokestack when you have to sac everything you have at least the Obzedat will survive. It might be a bit to cute tho

I have been trying to find a new commander and I think that I've finally decided on Obzedat. I put together a list, but I'm having trouble cutting it down to size. I still need to remove 2 cards. Any suggestions?



Note: I would include The Abyss and Ravages of War, but They are a bit out of my budget at the moment.

Maybe cut a land and O-ring?

Let me know how you like the deck after playing it a bit.

I'll try out those cuts!

I should be able to do some play testing later this week. I'll let you know how it goes.