So, I am back with my third time of playing Korlash. Honestly he is just such a cool comander that I really enjoy the simplicity but power behind his design. He lacks evasion but provides power and the ability to stay in play.
This version is heavier on wraths and draw. I try to utilize my commander's pressure mixed with removal to push him through. He grows in power as the game goes on as well which means that he just gets stronger as the game goes on. The heavy wrath focus is an attempt to keep the board build up to a lesser extent as well as to clear out chump blockers and prevent someone from amassing large board presence.
So, version 3 is mostly focused as removal, draw, and sustain.
I considered tactics like Hatred, honestly I like them a lot more when I have a commander with lower output. Given the lifelink enablers I run it still might be worthwhile but with how heavy hitting Korlash already is I was more going for a focus of disruption and heavy hits than focusing on how quickly I can KO players. Its an option but its something I tend to prefer more when I have a commander that hits lighter but has evasion like say Wydwen, the Biting Gale. Pushing for fast kills is totally an option, I just felt it was less important consider with a scaling power commander who should be hitting kind of hard on his own especially as the game goes on. The lack of evasion + an already strong commander as things stood made me shy away from pushing for more power in the equipment / commander support that I did want to pack.
Shizo, Death's Storehouse - ooooops yea, its in my IRL list but I didnt pay as much attention to my landbase when I was adding it digitally. Rogue's Passage is also something I go back and forth with but considering the cost to activate I suspect I will pass on it for now.
Lashwrithe/Nightmare Lash - good suggestions. I looked at them kind of similarly to Hatred when I was asking myself how I wanted to build this. I wanted it to be sort of creature light as a whole though. It could be handy on a blocker or to juice a Pestilence creature's stats up to make it live but outside of that sort of thing, I was going for a somewhat creature light approach. Its not wrong to run them but I was going in some slightly different directions for the equipment I am trying to put on my commander.
Liliana's Shade - its amusing but I dont think getting a single swamp is enough to warrant it as a card. I would probably be more likely to run Pilgrim's Eye given the lower cost and flying blocker but at the same time, I dont really value creatures much in this list given the number of sweepers I intend to use so the creature body is mostly lost to me as I dont want to have to pump to keep it alive through a lot of my removal.
Nightmare Incursion - I kind of forgot about this card but I like it. I can pull wincons out of my opponents libraries. I have been seeing a good number of decks with limited numbers of wincons in them with some small scale combo commanders recently so a combination of hand hate + library hate was sort of what I was going for in part to combat this stuff. My concern offhand is that its kind of expensive to cast so it feels like its going to eat up my turn while not really interacting with the board or my opponents hands. Similarly as an idea, Mind Sludge resembles this card in some ways and is also something I dont have in my list yet. I will think about both cards for a bit and perhaps put them on a potential list because offhand I dont know about paying 6 mana and not impacting the board, hands, or life total.
Snuff Out - I considered it but honestly I have a good dislike for spot removal that has non-black creature as a limitation. It doesn't backfire a ton and I was willing to overlook it on Slaughter for the time being but I will say its very aggravating when you cannot use spot removal on what you need to kill. I like the special cast conditions I just hate non black targeting restrictions.
Withering Wisps - oh snap, I totally forgot about that card. I went out and ordered a snow land landbase + this already . Thanks for catching that one for me.
Thanks for the in depth card list. I am glad you like my lists.
Its not a bad suggestion, I will see what I can do to see if I can get her into my list. Her removal isn't bad and her land tutoring has some good synergy with Korlash. I am still not entirely sure how much of a pain it is going to be to stick walkers as it might be easy with so much removal but it could also be a pain because I dont intend to really have a lot of blockers offhand.
DECK CHANGE:
1 Swamp -> Shizo, Death's Storehouse just an easy swap. I forgot to put it into my digital list. Thanks for the reminder.
Languish -> Withering Wisps its a similar effect but I like that I keep Wisps and can control when I want to use it. Languish has a set effect and it shrinks my commander's output where as the Wisps can take
Night of Souls' Betrayal -> Liliana of the Dark Realms I keep getting the impression that Night of Soul's Betrayal will be.... decent but not great with how many sweepers I am planning on having. Sure it a lot of tokens outright but I have enough sweeper effects to cover that right now that I suspect it wont be a big problem. Late in the game Liliana could even potentially remove indestructible eldrazi so thats kind of a useful thing to have. Her + ability land searching is only so so but so long as I can get 2-3 uses from her it should be ok. It's going to come down to how many uses I get from her but its hard to say without trying her out.
Random Concerns:
Sidisi, Undead Vizier - she is a good blocker and I like her tutor. I just dont know that I have the creature count to reliably be doing more than paying 5 mana for a tutor. I dont really have the creature rez abuse to justify her for that end of things either.
My ability to block kind of sucks. I considered something like just a random Reassembling Skeleton as it could act as a random attack blocker as well as edict fodder. I dont know if I will do that though but its something I thought about. Something along the lines of Darksteel Sentinel / Stuffy Doll / Darksteel Gargoyle could also be considered in this role but more on like designated defense duty.
Sidisi, Undead Vizier - she is a good blocker and I like her tutor. I just dont know that I have the creature count to reliably be doing more than paying 5 mana for a tutor. I dont really have the creature rez abuse to justify her for that end of things either.
My ability to block kind of sucks. I considered something like just a random Reassembling Skeleton as it could act as a random attack blocker as well as edict fodder. I dont know if I will do that though but its something I thought about. Something along the lines of Darksteel Sentinel / Stuffy Doll / Darksteel Gargoyle could also be considered in this role but more on like designated defense duty.
I was thinking about Sidisi, Undead Vizier in this deck. my first thought jumped to Rune-scarred Demon instead, but again, that's an expensive tutor on a body you really dont need.
Reassembling Skeleton seems kind of poor with the whole pestilence thing, you'll end up paying more for a 1/1 than actually using it to block, especially since it comes in tapped. maybe you would get more value out of like a Phyrexian Reclamation? or Relentless Dead if you want a physical creature, plus it could get back Withered Wretch, Sidisi, Undead Vizier, or Korlesh should he ever go to the yard. Anything short of Sheoldred, Whispering One probably isnt worth it besides the indestructible guys. Darksteel Brute actually looks pretty interesting, but thats up to you.
I feel as thou O-Naginata will be a dead draw often..
and Blood-Chin Fanatic looks incredible as a finisher as well, saccing korlesh to do a lot of extra damage after the attack
im curious to see how this deck pans out...
With all the Pestilence effects have you considered Darksteel Plate? An indestructible Thrashing Wumpus seems very nice.
Also a mana doubler and finisher Nirkana Revenant.
You can give Korlash fear with Profane Command and it's a drain effect.
With all the destroy effects Grim Return might have a spot here. Always nice to snatch some creatures from the yard.
Ok, so I ended up logging two games with this deck last night. I also went on to play 2 other games because people were getting a little irritated with me lol.
Opening: nothing super special, I have a 4 land start with Kothophed, Soul Hoarder and removal. I end up wrathing the board on turn 3 with a Toxis Deluge to remove a Weathered Wayfarer who started by getting a Nykthos but I wanted to keep him from fetching up mazes. I managed to catch Alesha kind of hard in the wrath and enable Angus (a planeswalker deck) with it.
Korlash comes out as a 4/4 but then right after that the Nahiri player drops a Citadel Siege in dragons mode and just hard taps me down for the start of the game. Angus gets some more walkers out as he juggles a Garruk Wildspeaker making 3/3 beasts with his Venser, the Sojourner as he sits behind bests + a Maze of Ith.
I slowly roll my way to 6 mana and drop Kothophed, Soul Hoarder who starts slowly drawing me some cards. It lives a turn and I drop Withering Wisps eating the Garruk tokens + poking off Garruk Wildspeaker because he is low. I draw some cards looking for more land drops and find it.
Angus drops a Stony Silence which cuts me off from my Oblivion Stone in hand as well as my Whip of Erebos activation. I wait another few turns and then I drop a Crypt Rat. Alesha cant see any way to be impactful so they scoop. I go ahead and set the Crypt Rat off for 8 and then 7. I kill a 7 loyalty elspeth with the second activation and end up going up to like 250ish life from the lifelink because there is something like 21 targets for the first activation for 8. Nahiri happens to have an Avacyn, Angel of Hope with several creatures who he turns sideways at me and ends up taking something like 30 life off of me. Nahiri then drops an Austere Command taking out artifacts and enchantments which removes the Whip of Erebos + Necropotence which I have which are enabling me so much. Angus is left with nothing left after this and he scoops rather than running out a prolonged game. I am happy with this because he still had mazes I did not know how to answer. I float a 12 card draw through before the Necropotence dies.
Back to me, I flash back a Sever the Bloodline I had binned earlier taking out Avacyn. I then drop and pop an Oblivion Stone and follow it up with a Bitter Ordeal for 8 cards from his deck which I more or less strip him of wincons. I draw 12 more cards and he peeks at his next draw and scoops.
This one was a little less eventful. Purpheros had some good interactions and he quickly hit each player for 20 damage or so. We got to the point where he was going to kill us all the next turn and the Jori player dropped and popped an Oblivion Stone to keep him from killing both of us. I dropped a Myojin of Night's Reach and let Jori En play through as he was kind of in the same boat that a good turn from Purpheros might kill both of us. I hit Purpheros during his draw and he flashed in a Simulacrum with a Winding Canyons. I did a Praetor's Grasp and pulled out a Batterskull from Purpheros and cast it.
I ended up getting slowly back into the game when I got down to about 12 life thanks to a hit from Korlash + Batterskull giving me 11 health back. Norin the Wary kind of spelt doom for Jori En unfortunately and he died / scooped. Purpheros managed to topdeck a Goblin Offensive and hit me for 14 damage off of a 7 token create + Norin the Wary flickered + he shot the 7 goblins through his Goblin Bombardment for like exactly lethal. It was one of those rediculous top deck moments where I had the game unless he got like exactly that effect and it had to be right then.
I was thinking about Sidisi, Undead Vizier in this deck. my first thought jumped to Rune-scarred Demon instead, but again, that's an expensive tutor on a body you really dont need.
Reassembling Skeleton seems kind of poor with the whole pestilence thing, you'll end up paying more for a 1/1 than actually using it to block, especially since it comes in tapped. maybe you would get more value out of like a Phyrexian Reclamation? or Relentless Dead if you want a physical creature, plus it could get back Withered Wretch, Sidisi, Undead Vizier, or Korlesh should he ever go to the yard. Anything short of Sheoldred, Whispering One probably isnt worth it besides the indestructible guys. Darksteel Brute actually looks pretty interesting, but thats up to you.
I feel as thou O-Naginata will be a dead draw often..
and Blood-Chin Fanatic looks incredible as a finisher as well, saccing korlesh to do a lot of extra damage after the attack
im curious to see how this deck pans out...
Sidisi, Undead Vizier - its likely that I just go with a non creature tutor. The creature part of the effect is more useful if you have some way of abusing reanimating creatures repeatedly. The fact that I am not using much rez or creatures in deck means she is more likely to be a 5 mana tutor that leaves no body behind which is not ideal.
Blockers - I am going to roll as I am for now and just see how it goes. It wasn't too bad overall recently in part because of how frequently I do spin up wraths.
O-Naginata - For now, I am going to leave it in. I have not used it yet but I have seen several situations where tokens have gotten in my way. Sacred Mesa for example is a pain to fight off without a pestilence effect enchantment.
Blood-Chin Fanatic - interesting suggestion. At the same time though, it resembles effects like Surestrike Trident in some ways. It could help zerg down specific players faster but at the same time bypassing small chump blocks can also do that. I am not sure how much I want to be flinging my commander for direct dmg / lifegain offhand. Its an interesting suggestion though for sure but it brings in to question if I can kill a player with such a move. I will have to look at it a bit more because I think later in a game or if I can generate a large big of mana it becomes a potential kill option. Its a move that is not something done lightly though as it takes up a lot of mana and takes a large commander to really add up enough. It would also further back the idea of the Lashwrithe / Nightmare Lash include idea.
Long ago I brought up the idea of using wishboards and my meta frowned on it. In retrospect years later I agree with the idea of not doing wishboards mostly because it adds complexity to the game that is not friendly for more casual or newer players. While I would personally love to have access to this sort of thing I think in retrospect its the right move to not run them. If your meta is cool with it then by all means I think they would be a great include but I dont plan to bring it up again based on my own opinions of them.
With all the Pestilence effects have you considered Darksteel Plate? An indestructible Thrashing Wumpus seems very nice.
Also a mana doubler and finisher Nirkana Revenant.
You can give Korlash fear with Profane Command and it's a drain effect.
With all the destroy effects Grim Return might have a spot here. Always nice to snatch some creatures from the yard.
Its more that it does not hurt my own commander and I am creature light. If I face off against an opposing voltron (hexproof) commander it could be a very good tutor target so for now I was thinking its worth keeping in. Its bad against token decks but I have so many other thing that work against those decks and it doesn't hurt my commander so I felt it was worth having.
Darksteel Plate - its possible but given the low number of creatures I would want it for, it seems less likely. I think something like Akroma's Memorial might be a more accurate add if you are looking to keep those creatures alive in a deck like this because it adds great evasions to Korlash plus giving offense + defense. The only concern I would have is someone copying or stealing an effect like Akroma's Memorial. With so few creatures you really want equipment to be good on your commander if you ask me and I dont think plate serves that much of a role on this commander.
Nirkana Revenant - its an option. I considered a few of the mana double minions and part of the problem is that they die to wraths. This one is interesting because you can keep it alive by its going to soak up your "double" mana to keep itself alive through pestilence effects so I thought it was kind of hit and miss. I am mainly going for hits with my commander and or mass damage as the way to break people down.
Profane Command - it doesn't quite scale as well as I want it to considering the amount of mana it generally takes. Most of its modes are ok but considering how expensive of an effect it is and the fact that it does not scale to multiplayer that well kind of makes me less keen on it.
Grim Return - I run it in my Toshiro deck and I like it there but honestly its not that great of rez outside of a deck who is strictly trying to play with instants. I could instead run say Animate Dead which costs one less mana and does not have timing restrictions in when it can be used. Its a fun card but I dont think I would run it here.
DECK CHANGES:
Sidisi, Undead Vizier -> Beseech the Queen the creature on this is not that valuable to me and I have a hard time sacrificing some other creature so moving to just the tutor seems better. Beseech has always worked out fairly well for me in a mono black deck like this.
Fetchlands -> Basics - I had intended to do Crucible of Worlds + Rings of Brighthearth but I decided I didn't have enough support to justify that. So to follow up I ended up cutting the fetches because I had no other real reason to run them.
Torpor Orb -> Gray Merchant of Asphodel I am not encountering a lot of ETB based decks. If I do I will move back to using this card but I have hit my meta with Torpor Orb for long enough that a lot of decks are playing arround this effect now. With a little more lifegain / another blocker I can play more control.
Mind Twist -> Night's Whisper I generally speaking feel bad casting Mind Twist early but I need a little more draw. I will try to keep the mass hand hate stuff over targeted hand hate for now but depending on what I run into the Mind Twist might come back.
Slaughter -> Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger I noticed I needed a bit more hate for non creature stuff. Stony Silence hit me harder than I had expected since my answer in hand was Oblivion Stone and it cut me off from equipment as well. Maze effects and Tower of the Magistrate effects are all annoying as well so having access to Ulamog's removal should help me some.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Long time Korlash MBC player here. I've played a bunch of different deck variations like sweeper control, Stax, and Pestilence/Grave Pact effects.
Some utility cards that I like just because they're powerful: Loxodon Warhammer: Probably my favorite Korlash equip. Giving him a Lash or two is great, and swinging with that big 20-30+ power monster is awesome and fun, but the Hammer counters a Korlash MBC deck's two major weaknesses: blockers and life loss (from your own effects or other players). It's generally looked upon as a Tier 2-ish equip compared to the ubiquitous swords, but for a Korlash MBC deck, it might be the best equip you can have (in my opinion). Giving lifelink to a massive creature like Korlash is huge, letting you fuel your Pestilence/Necro effects even more, and trample is a game winner, ridding Korlash of his major weakness.
Phyrexian Reclamation: While it's certainly expensive to have to Raise Dead creatures and play them again, I can't state how much I love ramping with this plus a Solemn Simulacrum or Burnished Hart. You're also running two Pestilence creatures, giving you essentially infinite sweepers (until you run out of life that is!). I'm also a fan of Dimir House Guard with Reclamation on the board, giving you repeated access to your 4 CMC cards if needed.
Infernal Darkness: Korlash's two major weaknesses: no evasion and weak protection. While ID won't completely shut your opponents off, the mana denial is certainly powerful. ID + Loxodon Warhammer on a Korlash = potential permanent soft lock while you win the game. The trio of denial/disruption cards I like the most are this, Myojin (which you are running), and Contamination (which you have to build around).
Rogue's Passage, Demonic Tutor, Damnation, Mutilate: Just staples that you haven't included. You may have forgotten about Rogue's Passage, and I imagine that you don't run the sweepers because they kill Korlash (Korlash + Lash + Mutilate keeps him around though).
Those are my "good stuff" suggestions, the rest depend on what direction you want to play control with. I know you're playing Pestilence/Sweeper control, but I'll suggest cards anyway incase they trigger some creative juices. I'll begin my spiel on fodder cards the these thoughts: while I won't deny the power of the sac for value synergy, I am not sure the strategy works best for Korlash. I see strengths of such a strategy, but the fact that my commander wouldn't support a sac for value engine in the same way Endrek Sahr or similar commanders can makes me think it not be worth it. Regardless, here we go: Reassembling Skeleton, Bloodghast, Grave Titan, Bloodsoaked Champion, Bitterblossom, Nether Traitor, Ophiomancer + Buried Alive: I think the biggest issue I have with running fodder cards that they have no direct synergy with Korlash himself. You're running them primarily to combo with other cards, but those other cards may have syngery with Korlash, so it's kind of a loop. They:
Keep around Call to the Grave/Pestilence if you rez or play them after the effects have triggered
Carry equipment; Lashwrithe plus any creature makes a threatening attacker or blocker, and fodder holding a Sword of Feast and Famine is a threat nobody wants to spend a card to answer
Fuel sac outlets if you want to run them. Disciple of Bolas is a cool card that combos well with fodder and Lashwrithe equips, or you can sac Korlash (the Commander tax isn't that big of a deal in a deck that wants to make every land drop) and net 7-10+ cards/life. Contamination is a powerful soft lock like Infernal Darkness that I would use in a similar vein to MLD in a traditional Voltron deck. Sidisi, Undead Vizier is a card you've been contemplating, but really need fodder to make work. The Abyss is a great card if you can afford it, and fodder provide it with a low value target so you can keep your powerful creatures. Skullclamp, don't really need to say more. Grave Pact, Dictate of Erebos, Smokestack are cards I like and require fodder, but probably work better in more focused decks or with commanders that can produce tokens/are sac outlets.
Miscellaneous cards and cards better suited towards the sweeper/pestilence shell: Essence Harvest/Blood-Chin Fanatic: I see you contemplating these cards. Korlash just can't get big enough, fast enough in a color with only 3 sources of land ramp to make them worth using. Flinging an 8-10 power Korlash probably won't win you the game. The exception is if you are using the Lash equips, then they can be strong. At that point, you may be tossing a 20-25 power creature at someone and that is going to make a dent or outright kill them. The downside is that they are simply dead cards in the early or mid game, and so probably not worth using.
Expedition Map: Cheap way to grab your Coffers/Shizo/Rogue's Passage depending on what you need.
Crucible of Worlds + Rings of Brighthearth: I really like this combo, but I agree with you in that it feels like there aren't land targets to make it work without having to tutor for a part of the combo (and I'd rather spend the tutor on getting a sweeper or something). You've got your 4 fetches + Myriad Landscape and that's about it unless you want to go deep and run things like Evolving Wilds,Terramorphic Expanse, and the Panoramas (at that point you're better off playing Ob Nixilis, the Fallen instead). Thawing Glaciers also works with Rings, but it's slow. You can combo Glaciers + Deserted Temple to ramp some as well.
Crux of Fate: 5 mana is steep for a vanilla sweeper, and is about the max I would pay for one, but it does allow Korlash to regen through it which is useful.
Lethal Vapors, Tainted Aether, Spreading Plague: Fun stax-ish cards that I've considered throughout my various deck builds. I think out of the three, Vapors is the best for Korlash as he can regenerate in response to the ETB trigger, and pairs well with Pithing Needle. Tainted Aether's drawback might just be too non-bo for a deck that wants as many lands as possible in play, and Spreading Plague can be strong but is slow and Korlash can't regenerate through it.
Terrain Generator: Not completely sold on this card, since it requires a few land ramps to get value. I think it can be powerful if you combine it with heavy draw or artifacts likeJourneyer's Kite and the new Wild-Field Scarecrow.
Phew, I think the post is big enough for now. I'm no MtG expert, just a guy who really likes Korlash, but hopefully some of my thought processes behind card suggestions makes sense!
Not yet, the last two weeks I have had a Committee that meets on Wednesdays (my commander night) so I got to play like 2 games of Kozilek last week and thats been about the extent of my commander games recently. I am hoping to play a good bit of Marath, Krond, and Korlash this week if I can manage.
Long time Korlash MBC player here. I've played a bunch of different deck variations like sweeper control, Stax, and Pestilence/Grave Pact effects.
Some utility cards that I like just because they're powerful: Loxodon Warhammer: Probably my favorite Korlash equip. Giving him a Lash or two is great, and swinging with that big 20-30+ power monster is awesome and fun, but the Hammer counters a Korlash MBC deck's two major weaknesses: blockers and life loss (from your own effects or other players). It's generally looked upon as a Tier 2-ish equip compared to the ubiquitous swords, but for a Korlash MBC deck, it might be the best equip you can have (in my opinion). Giving lifelink to a massive creature like Korlash is huge, letting you fuel your Pestilence/Necro effects even more, and trample is a game winner, ridding Korlash of his major weakness.
Phyrexian Reclamation: While it's certainly expensive to have to Raise Dead creatures and play them again, I can't state how much I love ramping with this plus a Solemn Simulacrum or Burnished Hart. You're also running two Pestilence creatures, giving you essentially infinite sweepers (until you run out of life that is!). I'm also a fan of Dimir House Guard with Reclamation on the board, giving you repeated access to your 4 CMC cards if needed.
Infernal Darkness: Korlash's two major weaknesses: no evasion and weak protection. While ID won't completely shut your opponents off, the mana denial is certainly powerful. ID + Loxodon Warhammer on a Korlash = potential permanent soft lock while you win the game. The trio of denial/disruption cards I like the most are this, Myojin (which you are running), and Contamination (which you have to build around).
Rogue's Passage, Demonic Tutor, Damnation, Mutilate: Just staples that you haven't included. You may have forgotten about Rogue's Passage, and I imagine that you don't run the sweepers because they kill Korlash (Korlash + Lash + Mutilate keeps him around though).
Those are my "good stuff" suggestions, the rest depend on what direction you want to play control with. I know you're playing Pestilence/Sweeper control, but I'll suggest cards anyway incase they trigger some creative juices. I'll begin my spiel on fodder cards the these thoughts: while I won't deny the power of the sac for value synergy, I am not sure the strategy works best for Korlash. I see strengths of such a strategy, but the fact that my commander wouldn't support a sac for value engine in the same way Endrek Sahr or similar commanders can makes me think it not be worth it. Regardless, here we go: Reassembling Skeleton, Bloodghast, Grave Titan, Bloodsoaked Champion, Bitterblossom, Nether Traitor, Ophiomancer + Buried Alive: I think the biggest issue I have with running fodder cards that they have no direct synergy with Korlash himself. You're running them primarily to combo with other cards, but those other cards may have syngery with Korlash, so it's kind of a loop. They:
Keep around Call to the Grave/Pestilence if you rez or play them after the effects have triggered
Carry equipment; Lashwrithe plus any creature makes a threatening attacker or blocker, and fodder holding a Sword of Feast and Famine is a threat nobody wants to spend a card to answer
Fuel sac outlets if you want to run them. Disciple of Bolas is a cool card that combos well with fodder and Lashwrithe equips, or you can sac Korlash (the Commander tax isn't that big of a deal in a deck that wants to make every land drop) and net 7-10+ cards/life. Contamination is a powerful soft lock like Infernal Darkness that I would use in a similar vein to MLD in a traditional Voltron deck. Sidisi, Undead Vizier is a card you've been contemplating, but really need fodder to make work. The Abyss is a great card if you can afford it, and fodder provide it with a low value target so you can keep your powerful creatures. Skullclamp, don't really need to say more. Grave Pact, Dictate of Erebos, Smokestack are cards I like and require fodder, but probably work better in more focused decks or with commanders that can produce tokens/are sac outlets.
Miscellaneous cards and cards better suited towards the sweeper/pestilence shell: Essence Harvest/Blood-Chin Fanatic: I see you contemplating these cards. Korlash just can't get big enough, fast enough in a color with only 3 sources of land ramp to make them worth using. Flinging an 8-10 power Korlash probably won't win you the game. The exception is if you are using the Lash equips, then they can be strong. At that point, you may be tossing a 20-25 power creature at someone and that is going to make a dent or outright kill them. The downside is that they are simply dead cards in the early or mid game, and so probably not worth using.
Expedition Map: Cheap way to grab your Coffers/Shizo/Rogue's Passage depending on what you need.
Crucible of Worlds + Rings of Brighthearth: I really like this combo, but I agree with you in that it feels like there aren't land targets to make it work without having to tutor for a part of the combo (and I'd rather spend the tutor on getting a sweeper or something). You've got your 4 fetches + Myriad Landscape and that's about it unless you want to go deep and run things like Evolving Wilds,Terramorphic Expanse, and the Panoramas (at that point you're better off playing Ob Nixilis, the Fallen instead). Thawing Glaciers also works with Rings, but it's slow. You can combo Glaciers + Deserted Temple to ramp some as well.
Crux of Fate: 5 mana is steep for a vanilla sweeper, and is about the max I would pay for one, but it does allow Korlash to regen through it which is useful.
Lethal Vapors, Tainted Aether, Spreading Plague: Fun stax-ish cards that I've considered throughout my various deck builds. I think out of the three, Vapors is the best for Korlash as he can regenerate in response to the ETB trigger, and pairs well with Pithing Needle. Tainted Aether's drawback might just be too non-bo for a deck that wants as many lands as possible in play, and Spreading Plague can be strong but is slow and Korlash can't regenerate through it.
Terrain Generator: Not completely sold on this card, since it requires a few land ramps to get value. I think it can be powerful if you combine it with heavy draw or artifacts likeJourneyer's Kite and the new Wild-Field Scarecrow.
Phew, I think the post is big enough for now. I'm no MtG expert, just a guy who really likes Korlash, but hopefully some of my thought processes behind card suggestions makes sense!
Sorry about the delay in response. I appreciate your well thought out post and when I read it I just didnt have the time then to respond but I forgot to come back.
Loxodon Warhammer - I agree it was one of the first things I included. The new Haunted Cloak also looks good as it can serve offense + defense as well as giving haste for cheap with evasion.
Phyrexian Reclamation - when it comes to my own graveyard specific creature rez I generally want to be pushing 20+ creatures before I really consider much for my own graveyard only grave rez. I am running 13 creatures right now and while its possible for it to have good times it just limits the frequency that it works and the diversity of targets for it to work with.
Infernal Darkness - good effect, its just not an effect I am willing to run offhand. I dont really want to jack with people's lands and ability to play the game. Its just kind of the social acceptable level that my meta has set.
Rogue's Passage - I considered it. It could still happen but I dont like how much mana it costs and the frequency that this cost would have to be paid. In my mind, trample or flying often supplies the same bonus but running non swamp lands cuts into the power of Korlash and the frequency that I would have to pay this seems high.
Damnation - It has a no regenerate clause on it which makes it a little harder to control so I opted not to run it because I didnt feel like it really was a wrath I needed in that what it gives me I have access to with a lot of other effects. Its something that could be considered but
Mutilate - It was in part because it generally will kill Korlash on me. I felt like I had the functionality still between the Pestilance effects and spot removal as well as the few wraths I am running. Generally speaking if I am killing Korlash then there isn't much I care to keep alive so something more like the Perilous Vault works for me.
Fodder Cards - most of the considerations I had were things to cover some areas that Korlash does not for me primarily being defense. I need to do more testing though to be honest and see what areas I have issues with as offhand it seems to be mazes and on demand token production.
Essence Harvest / Blood-Chin Fanatic - amusing suggestions. If I considered these effects I would probably also consider adding the Lashwrithe / Nightmare Lash effects. The question would become how many of these effects I can come up with as well because realistically you probably still need to have a few loops of these cards to kill someone. The Blood-Chin Fanatic is very interesting though but like I said it would probably also require some additional cards added to justify it.
Expedition Map - I considered it but went with Besseach the Queen instead. Its a more versatile tutor. I always have trouble with Expidition Map in mono black because realistically I can run a black tutor instead and just have better versatility. Oddly enough, I dont find myself prioritizing cabal coffers as much in this list yet as I do in Toshiro.
Crucible of Worlds + Rings of Brighthearth yea, I just dont have enough lands I am really counting on being that I am heavier on basics given Korlash's power / toughness. I find Crucible to be stronger in my Toshiro deck where I also run The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale / Cabal Coffers / Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx / Bazaar of Baghdad. Using Crucible with Bazaar of Baghdad is hilarious by the way as you can discard lands to it and then play them from grave which is a lot of fun. I also dont have as many cards to combo with Rings of Brighthearth as I had originally planned. I think both are good cards I just dont think either really fits my list right now.
Crux of Fate - it depends a bit on how much I want random wraths. Its nice because I can regenerate Korlash from it but its also kind of expensive at 5 mana. It comes down to how many wraths you find yourself wanting / needing. I run 4 Pestilance effects, Oblivion Stone, Perilous Vault, Toxic Deluge, and Kagemaro, First to Suffer. Of these, one I need to regenerate from and one exiles. But what I do like about them is that most of them have good flexability and sweep out tokens and chump blockers without really negatively affecting Korlash's power.
Lethal Vapors - I have really bad results with stuff like this. It generally ends up like the biggest scrub at the table takes their own turn and this goes rather than it actually accomplishing much for me.
Tainted Æther - Possibly. I have a low enough creature count that I would not be hitting this very often but it does make blockers hard to justify. Still, it makes a lot of decks cry at the thought of making tokens or some such nonsense.
Spreading Plague - I am going to pass. There is too much liability with it based on anyone else playing black.
Terrain Generator - Possibly. I considered it myself early on but I wasnt sure my card draw could actually hold up enough to justify its use. Like you said, if I devoted a few more slots to guaranteeing more draw or land to hand its potentially decent. I will keep an eye on it but I need to be drawing a lot of cards and keeping up surplus mana more than I had been in my first few test games offhand.
Again thanks for the well thought out post and I am sorry for the delay. Blood-Chin Fanatic is definitely something I am still interested in as an effect but I dont know where I stand with it yet but it could happen. Tainted Æther seems a little rough as well but it might be something I consider.
Game 1: game was a 3 team 2 headed giant game so three teams of 2. My ally was a UW deck of some sorts who seemed to never hit any draw or answers so he kind of just flowndered dropping lands.
I ended up topdecking the lands I was hoping for to play. I think I ended up mulliganning to 5 cards and keeping a 1 land hand. I ended up on curve hitting a Night's Whisper which drew me into Sol Ring + Swamp. I did a turn 3 Sol Ring / land / Syphon Mind and it got me back into the game by drawing 5 cards. The next turn I did an end of turn Necromancy for my partner's Burnished Hart that he had just popped.
I ended up getting a turn 5 Myojin of Night's Reach and I slowed my opponents down a bit. I followed it up next turn with a Kothophed, Soul Hoarder next turn to try to restock my hand.
Somewhere around turn 7 one of the opposing teams got a Bloodchief Ascension live and honestly nobody had an answer for it. I tried tutoring for an Oblivion Stone but I didnt have the mana for it so I ended up hemeraging some life drawing cards and tutoring. My partner ended up trying to copy my Kothophed, Soul Hoarder.
I ended up dropping and popping an Oblivion Stone and outright dying to a single Kothophed, Soul Hoarder as the 25+ dmg it dealt to us per Kothophed was enough to kill us given the hits we had taken. Unfortunately this game my partner contributed very very little to our defenses or removing of anything so I will just chalk this up as I did well but my partner did not. I should have counted how bad it would be before I popped it though honestly because its something I should not have done and or I should have just gotten a single card removal instead when I tutored given I didn't have the mana for the Oblviion Stone. There were a few miscalculations made on my end.
I end up just curving 4x swamp in a row into Korlash in play. Turn 2 I drop a Sword of the Animist, Turn 3 I drop a Loxodon Warhammer. I equip the sword on turn 5 and turn sideways as well as cast my Liliana of the Dark Realms doing a +1 thanks to a Cabal Coffers ramping me. Progenitus player drops a Jinxed Choker and passes it to me (dont ask his deck is so weird).
Mina drops his commander and ramps some. Progenitus wraths us. I recast my commander and equip the sword keeping 2 mana up to regen as well as tutoring more swamps.
I hooked up the Loxodon Warhammer + dropped a Pestilence with 5 swamps up. I have also been passing the Jinxed Choker to Mina and Denn to make it add up faster given my lifelink its hurting them a lot. I swing and do 12 dmg to the Progenitus player and pass the 10 counter Jinxed Choker back to the Mina and Denn player. Mina and Denn is down to like 14 damage and honestly he cant take another hit from the Jinxed Choker at this point. I have the Pestilence effect up too which is going to do 5 damage to him this turn as well as defend my planeswalker from him. He swings and kills the Progenitus player and spot removes my warhammer. I have him dead outright though between the Pestilence effect + Exsanginate in hand + huge trampley commander so there were just too many ways in which he was going to die.
So, overall the deck did well. I kind of screwed up the first game by not tutoring for something more spot removal based instead of sweeper based. The second game went well and was amusing as I curved out with a more voltron looking approach which was fun to see. I dont have any changes right this moment I just wanted to kind of give some more reviews. Missing out on lifegain options game one kind of hurt too.
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Perhaps a little high costed, but what do you think about Scour from Existence?
Also a little more lifegain... What do you think about Sword of War and Peace? Perhaps not necessary since you're already running Batterskull and Loxodon Warhammer... But don't forget about the protection. Pro white and red are pretty good, considering the removal that might come your way.
Perhaps a little high costed, but what do you think about Scour from Existence?
Also a little more lifegain... What do you think about Sword of War and Peace? Perhaps not necessary since you're already running Batterskull and Loxodon Warhammer... But don't forget about the protection. Pro white and red are pretty good, considering the removal that might come your way.
I have been considering Scour from Existence because of its versatility in targets but it does concern me a little to add too many expensive exile anything effects.
More lifegain - its something to consider. I actually was thinking that I might consider more draw rather than more lifegain and more draw should ideally get me into more lifegain / removal / tutors. I had a game this weekend when I was playing and did a turn two Demonic Tutor for Necropotence which on turn 3 ate a Negate. From that point forward I struggled with my card draw and it was noticeable on my game. I did end up winning but it wasn't without going 2v1 against the UG player for a good portion of the game until he folded to our combined efforts. Luckily for me I narrowly won that game but it was very close and at one point we had to coordinate a wheel effect to push the UG player off of his Seedborn Muse + Capsize.
Overall, I think its not a bad idea to consider effects like Scour from Existence but in the game I had this weekend I wasn't hitting my lands which was keeping a lot of expensive removal options stuck in my hand. More draw seems to be my conclusion right now but I am still working on how I want that to look as its also possible to consider more tutors and use the tutors to go get the better draw.
DECK CHANGE:
Tectonic Edge -> Dust Bowl its possible I still run Tech edge but sometimes there gets to be a bunch of mazes and a single land striping effect wont do. I could still run both but I am trying to keep my swamp count high so for now I will make a swap.
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You're running 39 lands (28 basics)
You have mana ramp:
- Burnished Hart
- Solemn Simulacrum
- Sol Ring
- Wayfarer's Bauble
- Sword of the Animist
- Liliana of the Dark Realms
Card draw:
- Phyrexian Arena
- Necropotence
- Greed
- Night's Whisper
- Sign in Blood
- Read the Bones
- Syphon Mind
- Promise of Power
- Wretched Confluence
- Ob Nixilis Reignited
You're running 39 lands (28 basics)
You have mana ramp:
- Burnished Hart
- Solemn Simulacrum
- Sol Ring
- Wayfarer's Bauble
- Sword of the Animist
- Liliana of the Dark Realms
Card draw:
- Phyrexian Arena
- Necropotence
- Greed
- Night's Whisper
- Sign in Blood
- Read the Bones
- Syphon Mind
- Promise of Power
- Wretched Confluence
- Ob Nixilis Reignited
If you think Scour from Existence costs a little too much, and are low on mana ramp you could consider Unstable Obelisk.
Sword of Fire and Ice - Hitting people with Korlash isn't super reliable right now offhand. Most of the pump effects I run give me trample evasion to get around chump blockers but the sword is more hit and miss given that Korlash has no natural evasion. The pro blue isnt bad right now as I seem to be primarily plagued by green and blue decks at the moment but still, I have some problem with it given that it lacks the evasion I need. I let Batterskull pass because I care less if I get chump blocked when running with that and it gives me offense + defense. I dont dislike this sword but I like it more when I have a commander with more evasion built in.
Pilgrim's Eye - its not terrible I guess. I am also not super excited for it here though either though because black should be able to get better card draw effects than this. It gives the flying block which is decent but getting a single land to hand once is not that powerful and I would rather run actual draw right now as it stands.
Hedron Archive - its... ok. I view it as kind of mediocre ramp and draw. Its not terrible but it also does not excite me given that it would drop arround the time I would want to drop my commander I would probably consider Mind Stone over it as it has better progression into Korlash if and when I want to curve my commander.
Erebos, God of the Dead - I love it but am concerned by theft and copy effects. I dont run a lot of sac outlets so turning into a creature seems somewhat like a liability. Its just rough to suddenly need to use exile removal because of something I was running myself.
Bloodgift Demon - too slow and vulnerable. I like Phyrexian Arena effects but this one costs a bit much and is slow to get the value back from considering it gives a target for creature removal. I have moved more to one shot draw instead of running the slow rolling creature variants in part because this deck wraths a good amount.
Rune-Scarred Demon - I dont run creature abuse really in here so I also dont run rune scarred demon. I feel that without some way to abuse creatures you are overpaying for the effect and opening yourself up to bribery.
Disciple of Bolas - Its possible but comes down to the fact that it probably entails me sacrificing Korlash for draw. Its not out of the realm of possibilities but it seems kind of rough as well.
Archfiend of Depravity - I like his effect I just hate that its end step in which it triggers which in my mind means that you have to play it somewhat before you have a problem on your hands.
Damnable Pact - I like it but its a sorcery and it costs 4 mana to draw 2 cards which the question comes down to how much I would want to cast this for on average since how I see it you really need to be pumping some good mana into it before it becomes reasonable over say Sign in Blood or Ambition's Cost
Skeletal Scrying - I do like this effect. The problem is that I dont really throw a ton of things in the graveyard quickly. I might consider it and see how it functions for me considering I really dont have that much graveyard abuse in this deck.
Unstable Obelisk - good suggestion. I will give that a bit more thought as it does probably fit a bit better into the list. It doesn't kill gods but it covers most of the other problems that Scour from Existence covers.
Honestly, the effect that came to mind when I was just sort of thinking about possibly adding more draw my first thought was possibly the draw 3 for 4 mana effects. I didn't really plan to do anything about it yet though as I felt like I had not tested enough to really make the call yet.
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I've always liked Bloodgift Demon, but I have the feeling you don't :P.
Rune-Scarred is a tutor with a big body attached to it, you can recur it with Necromancy. But if Bribery is something you see alot, I see where you're coming from.
Well besides Disciple of Bolas I would suggest Corpse Augur, but since you're not running alot of creatures...
Damnable could also finish your opponents when they're low on life. I think I would run this over for example Ancient Craving.
When an opponent plays Diluvian Primordial they can use Ancient Craving, but they won't get to use Damnable Pact.
Of course by the time they hit 7 mana your graveyard will be stocked with goodies and they'll probably grab something else.
Bloodgift Demon - it can be a good effect but when you are paying 5 mana for a creature whose intent is to draw cards how many cards do you have to draw before you feel it has paid for itself? My experience would probably be 3+ cards plus attacking or defending for me for three turns. I just feel that 4 turns in play is not my expected outcome when I play Bloodgift Demon. If and when you get 0-2 cards a few too many times from him I just stopped playing him.
Rune-Scarred Demon - to me its actually more of a clone issue. I dont run heavy sac outlets and I can tell you, if I had clones in hand I would offload them as fast as I can if I ever see any Rune-Scarred Demon in play. I dont have a lot of way to abuse him and while Necromancy is in my deck I am more thinking like.... Corpse Dance, Chainer, Nim Deathmantle, sac outlets, Skullclamp, Mimic Vat are among things I normally like playing to make him function. This deck just has very little creature abuse as its not the goal of this list.
Corpse Augur - it might be more of an option in my mind. It does not have to be creatures in my graveyard after all so it can go off of anyone. The downside is going to come back to the lack of sac outlets for me though.
Damnable Pact - it comes back to how often I have crazy silly mana. Cabal Coffers is a great card but I find myself prioritizing it far less in this deck than I do in say my Toshiro list. When run at low mana its worse than most of the low mana draw effects so you really need to be sinking 6+ mana into it before it becomes possibly better than just a draw 2 or draw 3 effect.
Right now, I plan to play more and get more data on the deck. There are still effects I am not 100% sure of such as the Sadistic Sacrament / Bitter Ordeal effects. I did however get the UG player to concede when I cast a non kicked Sadistic Sacrament on him this weekend but at the same time it was getting towards the end of getting beat up and he had little left in play either. As it stands, I had planned to get more data before I do any changes as I dont feel I have really a good list of what is / isnt working and what I need to add yet.
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Besides Cabal Coffers you could always run Gauntlet of Power or something of the like.
I like Sadistic Sacrament, but in this deck I have the feeling Bitter Ordeal won't do much.
Besides Cabal Coffers you could always run Gauntlet of Power or something of the like.
I like Sadistic Sacrament, but in this deck I have the feeling Bitter Ordeal won't do much.
Mana Doublers - I am open to the idea and concept of running them. Realistically though, I have primarily the Pestilence effects + Exsanguinate for large mana dumping options. I am not opposed to the idea of mana doublers I just dont know that I have the correct setup to really abuse them. Looking over to my Toshiro deck, I have things like Geth, Chainer, Corpse Dance, and several more effects that allow me to really dump the mana effectively. Generally speaking when it comes to Pestilence effects, there is a goal of damage I am trying to reach and excess mana beyond that is not really necessary.
Bitter Ordeal also works off of opponents permanents and tokens going to grave which is actually somewhat useful in a wrath heavy deck. I can also split off the copies to spread them over multiple players instead of it being all or nothing on one player.
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I have a fairly decent hand with lands, Sword of the Animist, and Necropotence in my opener so I like the way it looks and I keep.
T1: Krenko plays a goblin, the rest of us mostly just drop lands. T2: Krenko drops a Goblin Lackey (which is mostly not noticed). I play a Withered Wretch with the idea that it can give me the option of a turn 4 Sword of the Animist equip. T3: Krenko hits someone with his Lackey and spits out a Goblin Warchief. He then casts his commander. I drop a Necroptence and draw some cards. Krenko makes 4 tokens at the end step. T4: not a lot happens this turn. I dig a bit deeper and swing with a Sword of the Animist. Krenko spits out another 8 tokens this turn. T5: Krenko drops some buff and kind of one shots someone after making 16 more tokens. I have Necropotence so I dont really have much of a chance of interacting unfortunately as I have no answer in hand. We scoop as nobody has an answer and he was going to make some ridiculous horde of tokens.
Game 2: Same setup, 4 player FFA with the same decks / players.
My opener looks less good to be honest. I found my removal but my draw wasn't very good and I struggled to get the lands to really be able to do much for big actions here. I ended up keeping players in check because we had 2x Mesmeric Orb feeding me targets for a Whip of Erebos that didnt die. I ended up rezing a Puppeteer Clique into a Shard Phoenix which threw the token decks off and gave me a 20+ life buffer.
We got to a point where Mina and Denn, Wildborn was just cycling big scary ***** with Greater Good with nobody having an answer for it. Sidisi was also milling me super hard but then Krenko got to a point where he could kill one of the other 2 players but not kill me where both the other players were decently significant threats to him. He happened to have dropped Goblin King so he swing his barely lethal at Mina and Denn, Wildborn who had something like 5 4/4s and apparently a Savage Beating he was about to unload on me as well as a starstorm to deal with the Krenko player but not the mana to use it right then.
I was getting to the point where I had about another turn before I got milled out by the 2x Mesmeric Orb that Sidisi was rocking as I had too many turns of something like 10 untaps with 2 orbs in play. Krenko was also going to die though if he untapped as it stood with his tokens but he had a goblin bombardment to cut down his numbers before that.
I swung at Sidisi for something like 8 damage and then wrathed the tokens off the board. Krenko used his goblin bombardment to finish the sidisi player which was an odd move considering I had tons of life and was setting him back to no board state but had a problem with the mill.
Something like a turn or two later I swung for lethal on Krenko with 2 cards left in my deck.
So, game 1... I am just going to chalk up to a freak occurrence. Game 2 things were mostly going well for me. I will say that I needed more ramp and draw though for most of what I was doing so I am probably going to move on that first. The almost being milled out was a bit surprising as both Sidisi and Mina and Denn both used eldrazi to shuffle their decks and make it a non issue for them. I considered doing something similar but until I have more of a consistent issue with it I dont think its worth acting on.
DECK CHANGES:
Sadistic Sacrament -> Skeletal Scrying so the change of cutting Sacrament will hurt me a bit against the toolbox decks with few wincons / the little bit of combo I play against but honestly its not been important enough yet for me to feel its been justified but I have had issues with needing more draw.
Praetor's Grasp -> Ambition's Cost the grasp is something I cant say I have actually seen yet out of my deck but I need more draw and it has overhead with finding something from an opponents deck first which I dont really need.
Pithing Needle -> Unstable Obelisk it shifts my answers but it gives me a more generic answer / ramp instead of more of a niche commander answer / maze answer.
Stinkweed Imp -> Mind Stone stinkweed has been more awkward than I had anticipated. I haven't run into as much voltron / single big creature sort of tactics of late and the imp is just better with recursion tactics which I am not really running right now. The Mind Stone gives me a little bit of ramp that can also serve as draw later if need be. I like it as I can ramp into Korlash with it.
Withered Wretch -> Gilded Lotus while I like grave hate, I just need more ramp and draw right now. I still have 2 graveyard hate effects. I keep feeling like while its really strong grave hate it lacks the other versatility of a card like Scavenging Ooze who also serves as lifegain / a beater. I like the gilded because it gives me the heavy black and the turn it drops in it doesn't eat up much of my turn as it gives me 3 mana back afterwards.
Snow-Covered Swamp -> Terrain Generator I have a high basic land count in here so I figure I should give the Terrain Generator a shot. It works well with additional draw being added to the list.
CONSIDERATION:
Thawing Glaciers - I am adding a lot of draw to the list right now but on the other hand this could be worth considering as something to ensure hitting land drops as I had noticed a lot of uncertainty in my draws somewhere in the 4-7 land count as it stood. I will keep it in consideration but its sort of slow to use nature concerns me offhand.
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth / Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre - something to defend from being milled out could be a consideration. Both of their on cast effects are fairly good in this deck too but I had not been getting enough ramp / lands to really cast them reliably. Its possible later given some of these changes to re-evaluate one of these later. Having 3 haste outlets as well in deck also sort of bodes well for these annihilate guys.
Sadistic Sacrament -> Skeletal Scrying so the change of cutting Sacrament will hurt me a bit against the toolbox decks with few wincons / the little bit of combo I play against but honestly its not been important enough yet for me to feel its been justified but I have had issues with needing more draw.
Praetor's Grasp -> Ambition's Cost the grasp is something I cant say I have actually seen yet out of my deck but I need more draw and it has overhead with finding something from an opponents deck first which I dont really need.
Pithing Needle -> Unstable Obelisk it shifts my answers but it gives me a more generic answer / ramp instead of more of a niche commander answer / maze answer.
Stinkweed Imp -> Mind Stone stinkweed has been more awkward than I had anticipated. I haven't run into as much voltron / single big creature sort of tactics of late and the imp is just better with recursion tactics which I am not really running right now. The Mind Stone gives me a little bit of ramp that can also serve as draw later if need be. I like it as I can ramp into Korlash with it.
Withered Wretch -> Gilded Lotus while I like grave hate, I just need more ramp and draw right now. I still have 2 graveyard hate effects. I keep feeling like while its really strong grave hate it lacks the other versatility of a card like Scavenging Ooze who also serves as lifegain / a beater. I like the gilded because it gives me the heavy black and the turn it drops in it doesn't eat up much of my turn as it gives me 3 mana back afterwards.
Snow-Covered Swamp -> Terrain Generator I have a high basic land count in here so I figure I should give the Terrain Generator a shot. It works well with additional draw being added to the list.
CONSIDERATION:
Thawing Glaciers - I am adding a lot of draw to the list right now but on the other hand this could be worth considering as something to ensure hitting land drops as I had noticed a lot of uncertainty in my draws somewhere in the 4-7 land count as it stood. I will keep it in consideration but its sort of slow to use nature concerns me offhand.
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth / Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre - something to defend from being milled out could be a consideration. Both of their on cast effects are fairly good in this deck too but I had not been getting enough ramp / lands to really cast them reliably. Its possible later given some of these changes to re-evaluate one of these later. Having 3 haste outlets as well in deck also sort of bodes well for these annihilate guys.
I agree with most of the changes you made, but I wouldn't cut Praetor's Grasp. You can fetch some good creature, a sol ring, a sword, etc. It's very versatile.
Instead of Gilded Lotus wouldn't you prefer to run Dreamstone Hedron?
Sure it costs 1 more mana, but you can sac it later to draw 3 cards.
Also imo you're already running one of the best graveyard hate effects (Nihil Spellbomb). Love that little thing :P.
Kozilek and Ulamog are good creatures, but wouldn't you consider their cost a little too high?
You're talking about mana problems, and I think if you draw one of these... Well it's no good :P.
I agree with most of the changes you made, but I wouldn't cut Praetor's Grasp. You can fetch some good creature, a sol ring, a sword, etc. It's very versatile.
Instead of Gilded Lotus wouldn't you prefer to run Dreamstone Hedron?
Sure it costs 1 more mana, but you can sac it later to draw 3 cards.
Also imo you're already running one of the best graveyard hate effects (Nihil Spellbomb). Love that little thing :P.
Kozilek and Ulamog are good creatures, but wouldn't you consider their cost a little too high?
You're talking about mana problems, and I think if you draw one of these... Well it's no good :P.
Dreamstone Hedron has one other thing about it, it does not tap for black mana. When it comes to Pestilence effects it does matter having access to a high count of colored mana. I considered mana doublers but most of them take up entire turns just to cast but I felt that Gilded Lotus was a good compromise because it only has a net loss of 2 mana while coming down a bit sooner. It also does not draw quite as much of a stigma to itself like a mana doubler does so I feel it has a little bit of a lower profile while giving a good bit of mana and not consuming a whole turn like I feel that Caged Sun tends to do.
Grave Hate - its hard to ever have too much of it if you ask me. I just was not quite as fond of the wretch in actual use in this case. I had several times in which I played it one turn and the next turn I was wrathing it out.
Kozi / Ulamog - I dont want to add them because I dont feel they are super ideal as it stands. If I continue to have issues with people trying to mill me out I will consider it though. So long as you have good draw you can always over draw and discard too.
Sudden Death - I feel like its something that makes a lot better value when playing against a lot of heavy counter and combo decks. In a lot of cases I dont feel that split second is necessary and it generally increases the cost / lowers the effect of spells. If you have a lot of problems with blue decks and or combo decks I think its worth considering but most of the time I feel underwhelmed by it.
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Sudden Death - I feel like its something that makes a lot better value when playing against a lot of heavy counter and combo decks. In a lot of cases I dont feel that split second is necessary and it generally increases the cost / lowers the effect of spells. If you have a lot of problems with blue decks and or combo decks I think its worth considering but most of the time I feel underwhelmed by it.
Oh but I look at Sudden Death as more than good vs blue or combo decks. Look at Krenko for example, you would be able to kill it, and he wouldn't be able to pump out new tokens.
Perhaps the outcome of that game woul've been different.
Same with for example Fauna Shaman or Scavenging Ooze targeting your graveyard. It's also good vs Mother of Runes and the like.
Another good creature, in the line of Crypt Rats would be Bane of the Living.
What decks do you play against, perhaps I could make more suggestions based on that ^^.
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So, I am back with my third time of playing Korlash. Honestly he is just such a cool comander that I really enjoy the simplicity but power behind his design. He lacks evasion but provides power and the ability to stay in play.
This version is heavier on wraths and draw. I try to utilize my commander's pressure mixed with removal to push him through. He grows in power as the game goes on as well which means that he just gets stronger as the game goes on. The heavy wrath focus is an attempt to keep the board build up to a lesser extent as well as to clear out chump blockers and prevent someone from amassing large board presence.
So, version 3 is mostly focused as removal, draw, and sustain.
1 Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
CREATURES (9)
1 Burnished Hart
1 Crypt Rats
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Kagemaro, First to Suffer
1 Thrashing Wumpus
1 Kothophed, Soul Hoarder
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Myojin of Night's Reach
ARTIFACT (17)
1 Mana Crypt
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 O-Naginata
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Sol Ring
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Crook of Condemnation
1 Sword of the Animist
1 Torpor Orb
1 Haunted Cloak
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Unstable Obelisk
1 Boompile
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Perilous Vault
1 Batterskull
1 Necropotence
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Withering Wisps
1 Greed
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Pestilence
1 Whip of Erebos
1 Call to the Grave
1 Painful Quandary
INSTANT (8)
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Go for the Throat
1 Victim of Night
1 Hero's Downfall
1 Succumb to Temptation
1 Murderous Cut
1 Wretched Confluence
SORCERY (17)
1 Bubbling Muck
1 Mind Twist
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Exsanguinate
1 Night's Whisper
1 Sign in Blood
1 Torment of Hailfire
1 Beseech the Queen
1 Read the Bones
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Ancient Craving
1 Ambition's Cost
1 Syphon Mind
1 Unnerve
1 Promise of Power
1 Tasigur's Cruelty
1 Cabal Conditioning
1 Karn Liberated
LAND (38)
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Dust Bowl
1 Myriad Landscape
1 Mystifying Maze
1 Scavenger Grounds
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Strip Mine
25 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Terrain Generator
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Tower of the Magistrate
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
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[Modern] Allies
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
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Yidris
another evasion would be Shizo, Death's Storehouse without having to really drop out another card.
I have had much success with Lashwrithe/Nightmare Lash, as you can turn any of your other creatures into korlesh pretty much.
other cards that i often used:
Liliana's Shade
Nightmare Incursion
Snuff Out
Withering Wisps - if you changed to snow lands, its pestilence for cheaper!
very cool list, as always, i enjoy your decks!
[EDH In Development] Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Queen Marchesa | Ruhan of the Fomori | Yahenni, Undying Partisan
[EDH Retired] Ertai, The Corrupted | Sigarda, Host of Herons | Tariel, Reckoner of Souls | Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
[Modern] Stuffy Doll Combo Burn | Demigod of Revenge
I considered tactics like Hatred, honestly I like them a lot more when I have a commander with lower output. Given the lifelink enablers I run it still might be worthwhile but with how heavy hitting Korlash already is I was more going for a focus of disruption and heavy hits than focusing on how quickly I can KO players. Its an option but its something I tend to prefer more when I have a commander that hits lighter but has evasion like say Wydwen, the Biting Gale. Pushing for fast kills is totally an option, I just felt it was less important consider with a scaling power commander who should be hitting kind of hard on his own especially as the game goes on. The lack of evasion + an already strong commander as things stood made me shy away from pushing for more power in the equipment / commander support that I did want to pack.
Shizo, Death's Storehouse - ooooops yea, its in my IRL list but I didnt pay as much attention to my landbase when I was adding it digitally. Rogue's Passage is also something I go back and forth with but considering the cost to activate I suspect I will pass on it for now.
Lashwrithe/Nightmare Lash - good suggestions. I looked at them kind of similarly to Hatred when I was asking myself how I wanted to build this. I wanted it to be sort of creature light as a whole though. It could be handy on a blocker or to juice a Pestilence creature's stats up to make it live but outside of that sort of thing, I was going for a somewhat creature light approach. Its not wrong to run them but I was going in some slightly different directions for the equipment I am trying to put on my commander.
Liliana's Shade - its amusing but I dont think getting a single swamp is enough to warrant it as a card. I would probably be more likely to run Pilgrim's Eye given the lower cost and flying blocker but at the same time, I dont really value creatures much in this list given the number of sweepers I intend to use so the creature body is mostly lost to me as I dont want to have to pump to keep it alive through a lot of my removal.
Nightmare Incursion - I kind of forgot about this card but I like it. I can pull wincons out of my opponents libraries. I have been seeing a good number of decks with limited numbers of wincons in them with some small scale combo commanders recently so a combination of hand hate + library hate was sort of what I was going for in part to combat this stuff. My concern offhand is that its kind of expensive to cast so it feels like its going to eat up my turn while not really interacting with the board or my opponents hands. Similarly as an idea, Mind Sludge resembles this card in some ways and is also something I dont have in my list yet. I will think about both cards for a bit and perhaps put them on a potential list because offhand I dont know about paying 6 mana and not impacting the board, hands, or life total.
Snuff Out - I considered it but honestly I have a good dislike for spot removal that has non-black creature as a limitation. It doesn't backfire a ton and I was willing to overlook it on Slaughter for the time being but I will say its very aggravating when you cannot use spot removal on what you need to kill. I like the special cast conditions I just hate non black targeting restrictions.
Withering Wisps - oh snap, I totally forgot about that card. I went out and ordered a snow land landbase + this already . Thanks for catching that one for me.
Thanks for the in depth card list. I am glad you like my lists.
Its not a bad suggestion, I will see what I can do to see if I can get her into my list. Her removal isn't bad and her land tutoring has some good synergy with Korlash. I am still not entirely sure how much of a pain it is going to be to stick walkers as it might be easy with so much removal but it could also be a pain because I dont intend to really have a lot of blockers offhand.
DECK CHANGE:
Random Concerns:
Sidisi, Undead Vizier - she is a good blocker and I like her tutor. I just dont know that I have the creature count to reliably be doing more than paying 5 mana for a tutor. I dont really have the creature rez abuse to justify her for that end of things either.
My ability to block kind of sucks. I considered something like just a random Reassembling Skeleton as it could act as a random attack blocker as well as edict fodder. I dont know if I will do that though but its something I thought about. Something along the lines of Darksteel Sentinel / Stuffy Doll / Darksteel Gargoyle could also be considered in this role but more on like designated defense duty.
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I was thinking about Sidisi, Undead Vizier in this deck. my first thought jumped to Rune-scarred Demon instead, but again, that's an expensive tutor on a body you really dont need.
Reassembling Skeleton seems kind of poor with the whole pestilence thing, you'll end up paying more for a 1/1 than actually using it to block, especially since it comes in tapped. maybe you would get more value out of like a Phyrexian Reclamation? or Relentless Dead if you want a physical creature, plus it could get back Withered Wretch, Sidisi, Undead Vizier, or Korlesh should he ever go to the yard. Anything short of Sheoldred, Whispering One probably isnt worth it besides the indestructible guys. Darksteel Brute actually looks pretty interesting, but thats up to you.
I feel as thou O-Naginata will be a dead draw often..
and Blood-Chin Fanatic looks incredible as a finisher as well, saccing korlesh to do a lot of extra damage after the attack
im curious to see how this deck pans out...
[EDH In Development] Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Queen Marchesa | Ruhan of the Fomori | Yahenni, Undying Partisan
[EDH Retired] Ertai, The Corrupted | Sigarda, Host of Herons | Tariel, Reckoner of Souls | Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
[Modern] Stuffy Doll Combo Burn | Demigod of Revenge
Considering you're only using 3 zombie cards.
Saying that you need more blockers... What about a small zombie theme? Relentless Dead, Geralf's Messenger, Fleshbag Marauder and Gravecrawler seem like 4 solid cards.
Oh and how could I forget Gray Merchant of Asphodel. When you're using these I think Call to the Grave becomes a lot better.
With all the Pestilence effects have you considered Darksteel Plate? An indestructible Thrashing Wumpus seems very nice.
Also a mana doubler and finisher Nirkana Revenant.
You can give Korlash fear with Profane Command and it's a drain effect.
With all the destroy effects Grim Return might have a spot here. Always nice to snatch some creatures from the yard.
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
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Game 1: 4 player game with opponents being Alesha, Who Smiles at Death, Nahiri, the Lithomancer, and Angus Mackenzie.
Opening: nothing super special, I have a 4 land start with Kothophed, Soul Hoarder and removal. I end up wrathing the board on turn 3 with a Toxis Deluge to remove a Weathered Wayfarer who started by getting a Nykthos but I wanted to keep him from fetching up mazes. I managed to catch Alesha kind of hard in the wrath and enable Angus (a planeswalker deck) with it.
Korlash comes out as a 4/4 but then right after that the Nahiri player drops a Citadel Siege in dragons mode and just hard taps me down for the start of the game. Angus gets some more walkers out as he juggles a Garruk Wildspeaker making 3/3 beasts with his Venser, the Sojourner as he sits behind bests + a Maze of Ith.
I slowly roll my way to 6 mana and drop Kothophed, Soul Hoarder who starts slowly drawing me some cards. It lives a turn and I drop Withering Wisps eating the Garruk tokens + poking off Garruk Wildspeaker because he is low. I draw some cards looking for more land drops and find it.
The game sort of stalls like this for some time with most everyone worrying about Angus' walkers we manage to sort of 3v1 him and keep them manageable. I manage to get a Cabal Coffers in here somewhere. Alesha manages to get both Erebos, God of the Dead and Purphoros, God of the Forge out with me being under 20 thanks to Purpheros, Kothophed, and my own Pestilence effects. I drop a Perilous Vault and end up popping it to clear out some walkers and gods. With that out of the way I drop a Whip of Erebos + Necromancy a Thrashing Wumpus whom I use for something like 4 damage to kill a Jace the Mind Sculptor + injure an Elspeth, Sun's Champion. The Thrashing Wumpus also gives me 18 life which puts me back into the mid 30s life total.
Angus drops a Stony Silence which cuts me off from my Oblivion Stone in hand as well as my Whip of Erebos activation. I wait another few turns and then I drop a Crypt Rat. Alesha cant see any way to be impactful so they scoop. I go ahead and set the Crypt Rat off for 8 and then 7. I kill a 7 loyalty elspeth with the second activation and end up going up to like 250ish life from the lifelink because there is something like 21 targets for the first activation for 8. Nahiri happens to have an Avacyn, Angel of Hope with several creatures who he turns sideways at me and ends up taking something like 30 life off of me. Nahiri then drops an Austere Command taking out artifacts and enchantments which removes the Whip of Erebos + Necropotence which I have which are enabling me so much. Angus is left with nothing left after this and he scoops rather than running out a prolonged game. I am happy with this because he still had mazes I did not know how to answer. I float a 12 card draw through before the Necropotence dies.
Back to me, I flash back a Sever the Bloodline I had binned earlier taking out Avacyn. I then drop and pop an Oblivion Stone and follow it up with a Bitter Ordeal for 8 cards from his deck which I more or less strip him of wincons. I draw 12 more cards and he peeks at his next draw and scoops.
Game 2:
Three player game with opponents being Jori En, Ruin Diver and Purphoros, God of the Forge.
This one was a little less eventful. Purpheros had some good interactions and he quickly hit each player for 20 damage or so. We got to the point where he was going to kill us all the next turn and the Jori player dropped and popped an Oblivion Stone to keep him from killing both of us. I dropped a Myojin of Night's Reach and let Jori En play through as he was kind of in the same boat that a good turn from Purpheros might kill both of us. I hit Purpheros during his draw and he flashed in a Simulacrum with a Winding Canyons. I did a Praetor's Grasp and pulled out a Batterskull from Purpheros and cast it.
I ended up getting slowly back into the game when I got down to about 12 life thanks to a hit from Korlash + Batterskull giving me 11 health back. Norin the Wary kind of spelt doom for Jori En unfortunately and he died / scooped. Purpheros managed to topdeck a Goblin Offensive and hit me for 14 damage off of a 7 token create + Norin the Wary flickered + he shot the 7 goblins through his Goblin Bombardment for like exactly lethal. It was one of those rediculous top deck moments where I had the game unless he got like exactly that effect and it had to be right then.
Sidisi, Undead Vizier - its likely that I just go with a non creature tutor. The creature part of the effect is more useful if you have some way of abusing reanimating creatures repeatedly. The fact that I am not using much rez or creatures in deck means she is more likely to be a 5 mana tutor that leaves no body behind which is not ideal.
Blockers - I am going to roll as I am for now and just see how it goes. It wasn't too bad overall recently in part because of how frequently I do spin up wraths.
O-Naginata - For now, I am going to leave it in. I have not used it yet but I have seen several situations where tokens have gotten in my way. Sacred Mesa for example is a pain to fight off without a pestilence effect enchantment.
Blood-Chin Fanatic - interesting suggestion. At the same time though, it resembles effects like Surestrike Trident in some ways. It could help zerg down specific players faster but at the same time bypassing small chump blocks can also do that. I am not sure how much I want to be flinging my commander for direct dmg / lifegain offhand. Its an interesting suggestion though for sure but it brings in to question if I can kill a player with such a move. I will have to look at it a bit more because I think later in a game or if I can generate a large big of mana it becomes a potential kill option. Its a move that is not something done lightly though as it takes up a lot of mana and takes a large commander to really add up enough. It would also further back the idea of the Lashwrithe / Nightmare Lash include idea.
Long ago I brought up the idea of using wishboards and my meta frowned on it. In retrospect years later I agree with the idea of not doing wishboards mostly because it adds complexity to the game that is not friendly for more casual or newer players. While I would personally love to have access to this sort of thing I think in retrospect its the right move to not run them. If your meta is cool with it then by all means I think they would be a great include but I dont plan to bring it up again based on my own opinions of them.
Its more that it does not hurt my own commander and I am creature light. If I face off against an opposing voltron (hexproof) commander it could be a very good tutor target so for now I was thinking its worth keeping in. Its bad against token decks but I have so many other thing that work against those decks and it doesn't hurt my commander so I felt it was worth having.
Darksteel Plate - its possible but given the low number of creatures I would want it for, it seems less likely. I think something like Akroma's Memorial might be a more accurate add if you are looking to keep those creatures alive in a deck like this because it adds great evasions to Korlash plus giving offense + defense. The only concern I would have is someone copying or stealing an effect like Akroma's Memorial. With so few creatures you really want equipment to be good on your commander if you ask me and I dont think plate serves that much of a role on this commander.
Nirkana Revenant - its an option. I considered a few of the mana double minions and part of the problem is that they die to wraths. This one is interesting because you can keep it alive by its going to soak up your "double" mana to keep itself alive through pestilence effects so I thought it was kind of hit and miss. I am mainly going for hits with my commander and or mass damage as the way to break people down.
Profane Command - it doesn't quite scale as well as I want it to considering the amount of mana it generally takes. Most of its modes are ok but considering how expensive of an effect it is and the fact that it does not scale to multiplayer that well kind of makes me less keen on it.
Grim Return - I run it in my Toshiro deck and I like it there but honestly its not that great of rez outside of a deck who is strictly trying to play with instants. I could instead run say Animate Dead which costs one less mana and does not have timing restrictions in when it can be used. Its a fun card but I dont think I would run it here.
DECK CHANGES:
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[Modern] Allies
Some utility cards that I like just because they're powerful:
Loxodon Warhammer: Probably my favorite Korlash equip. Giving him a Lash or two is great, and swinging with that big 20-30+ power monster is awesome and fun, but the Hammer counters a Korlash MBC deck's two major weaknesses: blockers and life loss (from your own effects or other players). It's generally looked upon as a Tier 2-ish equip compared to the ubiquitous swords, but for a Korlash MBC deck, it might be the best equip you can have (in my opinion). Giving lifelink to a massive creature like Korlash is huge, letting you fuel your Pestilence/Necro effects even more, and trample is a game winner, ridding Korlash of his major weakness.
Phyrexian Reclamation: While it's certainly expensive to have to Raise Dead creatures and play them again, I can't state how much I love ramping with this plus a Solemn Simulacrum or Burnished Hart. You're also running two Pestilence creatures, giving you essentially infinite sweepers (until you run out of life that is!). I'm also a fan of Dimir House Guard with Reclamation on the board, giving you repeated access to your 4 CMC cards if needed.
Infernal Darkness: Korlash's two major weaknesses: no evasion and weak protection. While ID won't completely shut your opponents off, the mana denial is certainly powerful. ID + Loxodon Warhammer on a Korlash = potential permanent soft lock while you win the game. The trio of denial/disruption cards I like the most are this, Myojin (which you are running), and Contamination (which you have to build around).
Rogue's Passage, Demonic Tutor, Damnation, Mutilate: Just staples that you haven't included. You may have forgotten about Rogue's Passage, and I imagine that you don't run the sweepers because they kill Korlash (Korlash + Lash + Mutilate keeps him around though).
Those are my "good stuff" suggestions, the rest depend on what direction you want to play control with. I know you're playing Pestilence/Sweeper control, but I'll suggest cards anyway incase they trigger some creative juices. I'll begin my spiel on fodder cards the these thoughts: while I won't deny the power of the sac for value synergy, I am not sure the strategy works best for Korlash. I see strengths of such a strategy, but the fact that my commander wouldn't support a sac for value engine in the same way Endrek Sahr or similar commanders can makes me think it not be worth it. Regardless, here we go:
Reassembling Skeleton, Bloodghast, Grave Titan, Bloodsoaked Champion, Bitterblossom, Nether Traitor, Ophiomancer + Buried Alive: I think the biggest issue I have with running fodder cards that they have no direct synergy with Korlash himself. You're running them primarily to combo with other cards, but those other cards may have syngery with Korlash, so it's kind of a loop. They:
Miscellaneous cards and cards better suited towards the sweeper/pestilence shell:
Essence Harvest/Blood-Chin Fanatic: I see you contemplating these cards. Korlash just can't get big enough, fast enough in a color with only 3 sources of land ramp to make them worth using. Flinging an 8-10 power Korlash probably won't win you the game. The exception is if you are using the Lash equips, then they can be strong. At that point, you may be tossing a 20-25 power creature at someone and that is going to make a dent or outright kill them. The downside is that they are simply dead cards in the early or mid game, and so probably not worth using.
Expedition Map: Cheap way to grab your Coffers/Shizo/Rogue's Passage depending on what you need.
Crucible of Worlds + Rings of Brighthearth: I really like this combo, but I agree with you in that it feels like there aren't land targets to make it work without having to tutor for a part of the combo (and I'd rather spend the tutor on getting a sweeper or something). You've got your 4 fetches + Myriad Landscape and that's about it unless you want to go deep and run things like Evolving Wilds,Terramorphic Expanse, and the Panoramas (at that point you're better off playing Ob Nixilis, the Fallen instead). Thawing Glaciers also works with Rings, but it's slow. You can combo Glaciers + Deserted Temple to ramp some as well.
Crux of Fate: 5 mana is steep for a vanilla sweeper, and is about the max I would pay for one, but it does allow Korlash to regen through it which is useful.
Lethal Vapors, Tainted Aether, Spreading Plague: Fun stax-ish cards that I've considered throughout my various deck builds. I think out of the three, Vapors is the best for Korlash as he can regenerate in response to the ETB trigger, and pairs well with Pithing Needle. Tainted Aether's drawback might just be too non-bo for a deck that wants as many lands as possible in play, and Spreading Plague can be strong but is slow and Korlash can't regenerate through it.
Terrain Generator: Not completely sold on this card, since it requires a few land ramps to get value. I think it can be powerful if you combine it with heavy draw or artifacts likeJourneyer's Kite and the new Wild-Field Scarecrow.
Phew, I think the post is big enough for now. I'm no MtG expert, just a guy who really likes Korlash, but hopefully some of my thought processes behind card suggestions makes sense!
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
Yidris
Not yet, the last two weeks I have had a Committee that meets on Wednesdays (my commander night) so I got to play like 2 games of Kozilek last week and thats been about the extent of my commander games recently. I am hoping to play a good bit of Marath, Krond, and Korlash this week if I can manage.
Sorry about the delay in response. I appreciate your well thought out post and when I read it I just didnt have the time then to respond but I forgot to come back.
Loxodon Warhammer - I agree it was one of the first things I included. The new Haunted Cloak also looks good as it can serve offense + defense as well as giving haste for cheap with evasion.
Phyrexian Reclamation - when it comes to my own graveyard specific creature rez I generally want to be pushing 20+ creatures before I really consider much for my own graveyard only grave rez. I am running 13 creatures right now and while its possible for it to have good times it just limits the frequency that it works and the diversity of targets for it to work with.
Infernal Darkness - good effect, its just not an effect I am willing to run offhand. I dont really want to jack with people's lands and ability to play the game. Its just kind of the social acceptable level that my meta has set.
Rogue's Passage - I considered it. It could still happen but I dont like how much mana it costs and the frequency that this cost would have to be paid. In my mind, trample or flying often supplies the same bonus but running non swamp lands cuts into the power of Korlash and the frequency that I would have to pay this seems high.
Demonic Tutor - It is in my list.
Damnation - It has a no regenerate clause on it which makes it a little harder to control so I opted not to run it because I didnt feel like it really was a wrath I needed in that what it gives me I have access to with a lot of other effects. Its something that could be considered but
Mutilate - It was in part because it generally will kill Korlash on me. I felt like I had the functionality still between the Pestilance effects and spot removal as well as the few wraths I am running. Generally speaking if I am killing Korlash then there isn't much I care to keep alive so something more like the Perilous Vault works for me.
Fodder Cards - most of the considerations I had were things to cover some areas that Korlash does not for me primarily being defense. I need to do more testing though to be honest and see what areas I have issues with as offhand it seems to be mazes and on demand token production.
Essence Harvest / Blood-Chin Fanatic - amusing suggestions. If I considered these effects I would probably also consider adding the Lashwrithe / Nightmare Lash effects. The question would become how many of these effects I can come up with as well because realistically you probably still need to have a few loops of these cards to kill someone. The Blood-Chin Fanatic is very interesting though but like I said it would probably also require some additional cards added to justify it.
Expedition Map - I considered it but went with Besseach the Queen instead. Its a more versatile tutor. I always have trouble with Expidition Map in mono black because realistically I can run a black tutor instead and just have better versatility. Oddly enough, I dont find myself prioritizing cabal coffers as much in this list yet as I do in Toshiro.
Crucible of Worlds + Rings of Brighthearth yea, I just dont have enough lands I am really counting on being that I am heavier on basics given Korlash's power / toughness. I find Crucible to be stronger in my Toshiro deck where I also run The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale / Cabal Coffers / Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx / Bazaar of Baghdad. Using Crucible with Bazaar of Baghdad is hilarious by the way as you can discard lands to it and then play them from grave which is a lot of fun. I also dont have as many cards to combo with Rings of Brighthearth as I had originally planned. I think both are good cards I just dont think either really fits my list right now.
Crux of Fate - it depends a bit on how much I want random wraths. Its nice because I can regenerate Korlash from it but its also kind of expensive at 5 mana. It comes down to how many wraths you find yourself wanting / needing. I run 4 Pestilance effects, Oblivion Stone, Perilous Vault, Toxic Deluge, and Kagemaro, First to Suffer. Of these, one I need to regenerate from and one exiles. But what I do like about them is that most of them have good flexability and sweep out tokens and chump blockers without really negatively affecting Korlash's power.
Lethal Vapors - I have really bad results with stuff like this. It generally ends up like the biggest scrub at the table takes their own turn and this goes rather than it actually accomplishing much for me.
Tainted Æther - Possibly. I have a low enough creature count that I would not be hitting this very often but it does make blockers hard to justify. Still, it makes a lot of decks cry at the thought of making tokens or some such nonsense.
Spreading Plague - I am going to pass. There is too much liability with it based on anyone else playing black.
Terrain Generator - Possibly. I considered it myself early on but I wasnt sure my card draw could actually hold up enough to justify its use. Like you said, if I devoted a few more slots to guaranteeing more draw or land to hand its potentially decent. I will keep an eye on it but I need to be drawing a lot of cards and keeping up surplus mana more than I had been in my first few test games offhand.
Again thanks for the well thought out post and I am sorry for the delay. Blood-Chin Fanatic is definitely something I am still interested in as an effect but I dont know where I stand with it yet but it could happen. Tainted Æther seems a little rough as well but it might be something I consider.
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[Modern] Allies
Game 1: game was a 3 team 2 headed giant game so three teams of 2. My ally was a UW deck of some sorts who seemed to never hit any draw or answers so he kind of just flowndered dropping lands.
I ended up topdecking the lands I was hoping for to play. I think I ended up mulliganning to 5 cards and keeping a 1 land hand. I ended up on curve hitting a Night's Whisper which drew me into Sol Ring + Swamp. I did a turn 3 Sol Ring / land / Syphon Mind and it got me back into the game by drawing 5 cards. The next turn I did an end of turn Necromancy for my partner's Burnished Hart that he had just popped.
I ended up getting a turn 5 Myojin of Night's Reach and I slowed my opponents down a bit. I followed it up next turn with a Kothophed, Soul Hoarder next turn to try to restock my hand.
Somewhere around turn 7 one of the opposing teams got a Bloodchief Ascension live and honestly nobody had an answer for it. I tried tutoring for an Oblivion Stone but I didnt have the mana for it so I ended up hemeraging some life drawing cards and tutoring. My partner ended up trying to copy my Kothophed, Soul Hoarder.
I ended up dropping and popping an Oblivion Stone and outright dying to a single Kothophed, Soul Hoarder as the 25+ dmg it dealt to us per Kothophed was enough to kill us given the hits we had taken. Unfortunately this game my partner contributed very very little to our defenses or removing of anything so I will just chalk this up as I did well but my partner did not. I should have counted how bad it would be before I popped it though honestly because its something I should not have done and or I should have just gotten a single card removal instead when I tutored given I didn't have the mana for the Oblviion Stone. There were a few miscalculations made on my end.
GAME 2: 3 player FFA game against a Mina and Denn, Wildborn and Progenitus.
I end up just curving 4x swamp in a row into Korlash in play. Turn 2 I drop a Sword of the Animist, Turn 3 I drop a Loxodon Warhammer. I equip the sword on turn 5 and turn sideways as well as cast my Liliana of the Dark Realms doing a +1 thanks to a Cabal Coffers ramping me. Progenitus player drops a Jinxed Choker and passes it to me (dont ask his deck is so weird).
Mina drops his commander and ramps some. Progenitus wraths us. I recast my commander and equip the sword keeping 2 mana up to regen as well as tutoring more swamps.
I hooked up the Loxodon Warhammer + dropped a Pestilence with 5 swamps up. I have also been passing the Jinxed Choker to Mina and Denn to make it add up faster given my lifelink its hurting them a lot. I swing and do 12 dmg to the Progenitus player and pass the 10 counter Jinxed Choker back to the Mina and Denn player. Mina and Denn is down to like 14 damage and honestly he cant take another hit from the Jinxed Choker at this point. I have the Pestilence effect up too which is going to do 5 damage to him this turn as well as defend my planeswalker from him. He swings and kills the Progenitus player and spot removes my warhammer. I have him dead outright though between the Pestilence effect + Exsanginate in hand + huge trampley commander so there were just too many ways in which he was going to die.
So, overall the deck did well. I kind of screwed up the first game by not tutoring for something more spot removal based instead of sweeper based. The second game went well and was amusing as I curved out with a more voltron looking approach which was fun to see. I dont have any changes right this moment I just wanted to kind of give some more reviews. Missing out on lifegain options game one kind of hurt too.
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[Modern] Allies
Also a little more lifegain... What do you think about Sword of War and Peace? Perhaps not necessary since you're already running Batterskull and Loxodon Warhammer... But don't forget about the protection. Pro white and red are pretty good, considering the removal that might come your way.
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
Yidris
I have been considering Scour from Existence because of its versatility in targets but it does concern me a little to add too many expensive exile anything effects.
More lifegain - its something to consider. I actually was thinking that I might consider more draw rather than more lifegain and more draw should ideally get me into more lifegain / removal / tutors. I had a game this weekend when I was playing and did a turn two Demonic Tutor for Necropotence which on turn 3 ate a Negate. From that point forward I struggled with my card draw and it was noticeable on my game. I did end up winning but it wasn't without going 2v1 against the UG player for a good portion of the game until he folded to our combined efforts. Luckily for me I narrowly won that game but it was very close and at one point we had to coordinate a wheel effect to push the UG player off of his Seedborn Muse + Capsize.
Overall, I think its not a bad idea to consider effects like Scour from Existence but in the game I had this weekend I wasn't hitting my lands which was keeping a lot of expensive removal options stuck in my hand. More draw seems to be my conclusion right now but I am still working on how I want that to look as its also possible to consider more tutors and use the tutors to go get the better draw.
DECK CHANGE:
Tectonic Edge -> Dust Bowl its possible I still run Tech edge but sometimes there gets to be a bunch of mazes and a single land striping effect wont do. I could still run both but I am trying to keep my swamp count high so for now I will make a swap.
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[Modern] Allies
You're running 39 lands (28 basics)
You have mana ramp:
- Burnished Hart
- Solemn Simulacrum
- Sol Ring
- Wayfarer's Bauble
- Sword of the Animist
- Liliana of the Dark Realms
Card draw:
- Phyrexian Arena
- Necropotence
- Greed
- Night's Whisper
- Sign in Blood
- Read the Bones
- Syphon Mind
- Promise of Power
- Wretched Confluence
- Ob Nixilis Reignited
Some stuff that you could add:
- Sword of Fire and Ice (Card draw, removal, pump and protection)
- Pilgrim's Eye
- Hedron Archive
- Erebos, God of the Dead
- Bloodgift Demon
- Rune-Scarred Demon
- Disciple of Bolas
- Archfiend of Depravity
- Damnable Pact
- Skeletal Scrying if you don't mind exiling some stuff
If you think Scour from Existence costs a little too much, and are low on mana ramp you could consider Unstable Obelisk.
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
Yidris
Unstable Obelisk - good suggestion. I will give that a bit more thought as it does probably fit a bit better into the list. It doesn't kill gods but it covers most of the other problems that Scour from Existence covers.
Honestly, the effect that came to mind when I was just sort of thinking about possibly adding more draw my first thought was possibly the draw 3 for 4 mana effects. I didn't really plan to do anything about it yet though as I felt like I had not tested enough to really make the call yet.
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[Modern] Allies
I've always liked Bloodgift Demon, but I have the feeling you don't :P.
Rune-Scarred is a tutor with a big body attached to it, you can recur it with Necromancy. But if Bribery is something you see alot, I see where you're coming from.
Well besides Disciple of Bolas I would suggest Corpse Augur, but since you're not running alot of creatures...
Damnable could also finish your opponents when they're low on life. I think I would run this over for example Ancient Craving.
When an opponent plays Diluvian Primordial they can use Ancient Craving, but they won't get to use Damnable Pact.
Of course by the time they hit 7 mana your graveyard will be stocked with goodies and they'll probably grab something else.
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
Yidris
Rune-Scarred Demon - to me its actually more of a clone issue. I dont run heavy sac outlets and I can tell you, if I had clones in hand I would offload them as fast as I can if I ever see any Rune-Scarred Demon in play. I dont have a lot of way to abuse him and while Necromancy is in my deck I am more thinking like.... Corpse Dance, Chainer, Nim Deathmantle, sac outlets, Skullclamp, Mimic Vat are among things I normally like playing to make him function. This deck just has very little creature abuse as its not the goal of this list.
Corpse Augur - it might be more of an option in my mind. It does not have to be creatures in my graveyard after all so it can go off of anyone. The downside is going to come back to the lack of sac outlets for me though.
Damnable Pact - it comes back to how often I have crazy silly mana. Cabal Coffers is a great card but I find myself prioritizing it far less in this deck than I do in say my Toshiro list. When run at low mana its worse than most of the low mana draw effects so you really need to be sinking 6+ mana into it before it becomes possibly better than just a draw 2 or draw 3 effect.
Right now, I plan to play more and get more data on the deck. There are still effects I am not 100% sure of such as the Sadistic Sacrament / Bitter Ordeal effects. I did however get the UG player to concede when I cast a non kicked Sadistic Sacrament on him this weekend but at the same time it was getting towards the end of getting beat up and he had little left in play either. As it stands, I had planned to get more data before I do any changes as I dont feel I have really a good list of what is / isnt working and what I need to add yet.
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[Modern] Allies
I like Sadistic Sacrament, but in this deck I have the feeling Bitter Ordeal won't do much.
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
Yidris
Mana Doublers - I am open to the idea and concept of running them. Realistically though, I have primarily the Pestilence effects + Exsanguinate for large mana dumping options. I am not opposed to the idea of mana doublers I just dont know that I have the correct setup to really abuse them. Looking over to my Toshiro deck, I have things like Geth, Chainer, Corpse Dance, and several more effects that allow me to really dump the mana effectively. Generally speaking when it comes to Pestilence effects, there is a goal of damage I am trying to reach and excess mana beyond that is not really necessary.
Bitter Ordeal also works off of opponents permanents and tokens going to grave which is actually somewhat useful in a wrath heavy deck. I can also split off the copies to spread them over multiple players instead of it being all or nothing on one player.
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[Modern] Allies
GAME 1: 4 player FFA opponents were: Krenko, Mob Boss, Mina and Denn, Wildborn, and Sidisi, Brood Tyrant.
I have a fairly decent hand with lands, Sword of the Animist, and Necropotence in my opener so I like the way it looks and I keep.
T1: Krenko plays a goblin, the rest of us mostly just drop lands.
T2: Krenko drops a Goblin Lackey (which is mostly not noticed). I play a Withered Wretch with the idea that it can give me the option of a turn 4 Sword of the Animist equip.
T3: Krenko hits someone with his Lackey and spits out a Goblin Warchief. He then casts his commander. I drop a Necroptence and draw some cards. Krenko makes 4 tokens at the end step.
T4: not a lot happens this turn. I dig a bit deeper and swing with a Sword of the Animist. Krenko spits out another 8 tokens this turn.
T5: Krenko drops some buff and kind of one shots someone after making 16 more tokens. I have Necropotence so I dont really have much of a chance of interacting unfortunately as I have no answer in hand. We scoop as nobody has an answer and he was going to make some ridiculous horde of tokens.
Game 2: Same setup, 4 player FFA with the same decks / players.
My opener looks less good to be honest. I found my removal but my draw wasn't very good and I struggled to get the lands to really be able to do much for big actions here. I ended up keeping players in check because we had 2x Mesmeric Orb feeding me targets for a Whip of Erebos that didnt die. I ended up rezing a Puppeteer Clique into a Shard Phoenix which threw the token decks off and gave me a 20+ life buffer.
We got to a point where Mina and Denn, Wildborn was just cycling big scary ***** with Greater Good with nobody having an answer for it. Sidisi was also milling me super hard but then Krenko got to a point where he could kill one of the other 2 players but not kill me where both the other players were decently significant threats to him. He happened to have dropped Goblin King so he swing his barely lethal at Mina and Denn, Wildborn who had something like 5 4/4s and apparently a Savage Beating he was about to unload on me as well as a starstorm to deal with the Krenko player but not the mana to use it right then.
I was getting to the point where I had about another turn before I got milled out by the 2x Mesmeric Orb that Sidisi was rocking as I had too many turns of something like 10 untaps with 2 orbs in play. Krenko was also going to die though if he untapped as it stood with his tokens but he had a goblin bombardment to cut down his numbers before that.
I swung at Sidisi for something like 8 damage and then wrathed the tokens off the board. Krenko used his goblin bombardment to finish the sidisi player which was an odd move considering I had tons of life and was setting him back to no board state but had a problem with the mill.
Something like a turn or two later I swung for lethal on Krenko with 2 cards left in my deck.
So, game 1... I am just going to chalk up to a freak occurrence. Game 2 things were mostly going well for me. I will say that I needed more ramp and draw though for most of what I was doing so I am probably going to move on that first. The almost being milled out was a bit surprising as both Sidisi and Mina and Denn both used eldrazi to shuffle their decks and make it a non issue for them. I considered doing something similar but until I have more of a consistent issue with it I dont think its worth acting on.
DECK CHANGES:
CONSIDERATION:
Thawing Glaciers - I am adding a lot of draw to the list right now but on the other hand this could be worth considering as something to ensure hitting land drops as I had noticed a lot of uncertainty in my draws somewhere in the 4-7 land count as it stood. I will keep it in consideration but its sort of slow to use nature concerns me offhand.
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth / Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre - something to defend from being milled out could be a consideration. Both of their on cast effects are fairly good in this deck too but I had not been getting enough ramp / lands to really cast them reliably. Its possible later given some of these changes to re-evaluate one of these later. Having 3 haste outlets as well in deck also sort of bodes well for these annihilate guys.
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[Modern] Allies
I agree with most of the changes you made, but I wouldn't cut Praetor's Grasp. You can fetch some good creature, a sol ring, a sword, etc. It's very versatile.
Instead of Gilded Lotus wouldn't you prefer to run Dreamstone Hedron?
Sure it costs 1 more mana, but you can sac it later to draw 3 cards.
Also imo you're already running one of the best graveyard hate effects (Nihil Spellbomb). Love that little thing :P.
Kozilek and Ulamog are good creatures, but wouldn't you consider their cost a little too high?
You're talking about mana problems, and I think if you draw one of these... Well it's no good :P.
What do you think about Sudden Death?
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
Yidris
Dreamstone Hedron has one other thing about it, it does not tap for black mana. When it comes to Pestilence effects it does matter having access to a high count of colored mana. I considered mana doublers but most of them take up entire turns just to cast but I felt that Gilded Lotus was a good compromise because it only has a net loss of 2 mana while coming down a bit sooner. It also does not draw quite as much of a stigma to itself like a mana doubler does so I feel it has a little bit of a lower profile while giving a good bit of mana and not consuming a whole turn like I feel that Caged Sun tends to do.
Grave Hate - its hard to ever have too much of it if you ask me. I just was not quite as fond of the wretch in actual use in this case. I had several times in which I played it one turn and the next turn I was wrathing it out.
Kozi / Ulamog - I dont want to add them because I dont feel they are super ideal as it stands. If I continue to have issues with people trying to mill me out I will consider it though. So long as you have good draw you can always over draw and discard too.
Sudden Death - I feel like its something that makes a lot better value when playing against a lot of heavy counter and combo decks. In a lot of cases I dont feel that split second is necessary and it generally increases the cost / lowers the effect of spells. If you have a lot of problems with blue decks and or combo decks I think its worth considering but most of the time I feel underwhelmed by it.
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[Modern] Allies
Oh but I look at Sudden Death as more than good vs blue or combo decks. Look at Krenko for example, you would be able to kill it, and he wouldn't be able to pump out new tokens.
Perhaps the outcome of that game woul've been different.
Same with for example Fauna Shaman or Scavenging Ooze targeting your graveyard. It's also good vs Mother of Runes and the like.
Another good creature, in the line of Crypt Rats would be Bane of the Living.
What decks do you play against, perhaps I could make more suggestions based on that ^^.
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
Yidris