Maybe you can help me: ever since I read Jusstice's comment on the "Best commander for tribal strategies" thread about how he once saw a Marchesa, the Black Rose deck with slivers instead of the creatures that usually go with Marchesa work very well, I am obsessed with that idea!
I have tried to brew something during the last two weeks. My thoughts were to include as much card draw as possible together with some ramp to keep a constant stream of slivers coming.
Some might say: "just play Edric, Spymaster of Trest" but I really would like to have Marchesa's effect together with the grixis slivers. In simic colours there are also decent slivers but... well... grixis for me...
Last Friday I had the chance to play the first games with the deck.
Generally the deck looks really promising but still needs a lot of work.
My biggest concern was that I could not reasonably interact with the board.
Counterspells are really nice but sometimes I need to do something against abilities or effects that are not cast or permanents that are already in play.
The average number of Slivers I had in play was four which is not so great. I observed that the deck can get in quite some damage during the early game but the longer the game goes on the better boards my opponents have. I think I have to be even faster...
Rhystic Study has under-performed a lot of the times I had it in play. Maybe I should look for card-draw alternatives.
A Sliver I am frowning upon right now is Vampiric Sliver. Sure, Slivers getting +1/+1 counters seems awesome in a Marchesa, the Black Rose deck but come to think of it: when will it ever happen? First of all I want to give my Slivers as much evasion as possible to get the damage through so they will rarely be blocked.
Secondly if my opponent decides to block with creatures it is likely that also my Sliver will die. The only scenario I can think of would be Vampiric Sliver together with Hunter Sliver or Bident of Thassa.
So I think this one should be replaced by another Sliver (I do not want to go below 27 Slivers in this deck). Toxin Sliver would be a kind of pseudo-evasion: either you let my Slivers pass or your blocking creatures will die. Homing Sliver would be another option for more tutoring (and I always like to reduce the cmc of the deck). Thorncaster Sliver would be great too: declare four Slivers as attackers and kill a potential blocker or another creature that needs to be removed with the four damage. Big downside: depends on the number of Slivers I control and the high cmc.
So do you have any suggestions concerning interaction/removal, replacement for Rhystic Study, replacement for Vampiric Sliver?
Finally got the fetchlands.
I found that I lacked coloured mana producing lands too often. I know that there are thins like Crosis's Catacombs or Crumbling Necropolis but they are a tempo loss which is really bad here. I generally try to avoid lands that enter the battelfield tapped in this deck. Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth is mainly in for the triple black costs of Necropotence.
I definitely wanted to have another removal spell and I found out that life is a well-manageable resource in this deck. Chrome Mox's card disadvantage and the lack of another possible cut led to my descision to swap it.
As mentioned in my last post I wanted to remove Vampiric Sliver. For now I replaced it with Toxin Sliver but I still consider this a flex spot to test other Slivers.
After some games I found Magma Sliver too awkward to use because it is most effective if I attack with only one Sliver which is rarely the case. I think another tutor ability in the form of Homing Sliver fits better.
A few worthwhile Slivers I think you're missing out on:
Basal Sliver - This is one of the main strengths of running slivers. Sacrifice abilities like this take over when you're getting your creatures back for free. The effect is so good that you should probably also consider Morgue Toad - Blood Vassal and Pawn of Ulamog. The mana production is just that great. Mindwhip Sliver - The same them with sacrificing things, just some pointed disruption with it. Telekinetic Sliver - This kind of card is how controlling the board in Slivers is done. Psionic Sliver - Same thing for this card. There aren't a lot of natural ways to get your slivers to 4 health and above, but Marchesa could get some of them there before you land this. And once you can to 6-8 damage on demand, good things start happening.
If you feel like you're push the sliver count down to make room, I would look at the ones at 4+ cmc. Just about any of the 3cmc ones aren't going to be a problem, because they gain each others abilities of course. I'm thinking Toxin Sliver and Shifting Sliver could go. You have just about every evasion silver available at <3cmc already. You should be able to hit one reliably.
There are also the slivers that aren't slivers: Taruean Mauler - a terriffic beating, enough said. Don't worry about it being a "dumb" beater, because slivers make it smart. Shapesharer - Clones are key for doubling up on your Bonesplitter Sliver effects. This one can tak the form of something else too early on, until it's better to go as a sliver. Sakashima the Impostor - I lean toward this one as a clone, because copying Marchesa early can be great. Really though, Phanstasmal Image any other clone works great. There are enough clones that you can hit your desired sliver density that way, and have some flexibility. Some of the sliver abilities are redundant, but others like the pump ones are cumulative. Lean toward the cumulative ones. Dack's Duplicant - I especially like this one for built-in Haste and Dethrone.
For the counterspells, Glen Elendra Archmage seems like it just fits in much better with the mana requirments and the Dethrone. Stratus Dancer is not too bad either for the same reason, although you can't get it back morphed after it dies. The Spiketail Drakeling line of creatures can be great for tax effects. Otherwise, I really don't see a lot of spots where you'll want to leave up 3 mana with this deck.
One tip I will add, I really don't like the mana rocks in this deck that cost more than 1 mana. You have enough fixing to not need signets for that, besides (although, I'd all all 3 filter lands). I think the deck wants to be productive at both 2 and 3 mana, as long as you can make sure to hit the lands for Marchesa on Turn 4. Marchesa on her own on Turn 3 might be what some Marchesa builds want, but I don't think this one. So, I would focus the ramp and draw on 1cmc - Sol Ring, Mana Vault, Mana Crypt (if you have it), Ponder, Preordain, Brianstorm. I think every game where you open creature on 2, creature on 3, and Marchsa on Turn 4, you'll be extremely happy. After that point, you really don't need more than 5 mana for any pressing reason. You'll be doing very well on your deck's mana requirements by simply having enough draw to keep hitting your land drops. And you'll notice not having to suffer the tempo loss from spending for a mana rock upfront.
Concerning Basal Sliver: of course I read in your comment in the tribal thread that this Sliver should be especially good but I have two questions: what to do with so much black mana in this deck? And: in all the games I played the deck Marchesa just did not live long enough to give my Slivers +1/+1 counters.
So basically I cannot sacrifice my Slivers and get them back most of the time.
Which brings me to: today I wished I still had Patriarch's Bidding and Living Death in the deck. Many board wipes were cast and though I could recover well by a good amount of card draw many important Slivers (e.g. Syphon Sliver) ended up in the graveyard. The only way to get them back was by using Volrath's Stronghold.
You already proposed Oversold Cemetery and maybe additionally I should try Phyrexian Reclamation?
About Telekinetic Sliver: I always play the deck as an aggro deck. Sure that Sliver's effect is nice but I think I would rather attack with them.
I wanted to include Psionic Sliver in the inital build of the deck and the only reason not to do it was its high cmc. Maybe I should rethink that. It becomes even better with more ways to get Slivers back from the grave.
I read Soulrune's deck and that gave me a good idea of which cards are played by default in a Marchesa deck. Now I am a bit torn: if I play too many non-Slivers in this deck because they are just great with Marchesa then I will lose the synergy with the rest of the Sliver tribe.
Another thing: Torpor Orb is a real powerhouse which I want to keep playing. As a result I would like to use as few creatures with ETB effects as possible - contrary to the default Marchesa build...
I think I will have to play the deck more often to decide what to do.
The mana rocks are a necessary evil I think. Having four mana on turn three is nice not only for playing Marchesa but maybe for playing two Slivers. No? Is it imperative to play Marchesa as soon as possible? Ponder, Preordain and Brainstorm are good tips and I should test them.
So, a lot of things to test and try - I think the hardest part will be to decide which cards to take out.
Thanks again man for your explanations! I really appreciate them.
Concerning Basal Sliver: of course I read in your comment in the tribal thread that this Sliver should be especially good but I have two questions: what to do with so much black mana in this deck? And: in all the games I played the deck Marchesa just did not live long enough to give my Slivers +1/+1 counters.
So basically I cannot sacrifice my Slivers and get them back most of the time.
I'm assuming that you're not talking about getting Marchesa killed a lot the first turn she's played. That would be quite a lot of hate, but I'm not sure. There's the option of running more things like Anger, Lightning Greaves, etc, so that you can attack the player on the throne right away. There are also things like Sage of Fables if you are eating so much removal that she's coming back once and getting killed a second time before she can attack.
If you're talking about a situation where you've got Marchesa on board, then you topdeck a mana sliver, play it, and she gets killed, that's just the sliver being a worse late game topdeck than it is early game. Also, haste would help more with your topdecks being able to attack right away and get counters. I have to say, I have not had the experience of getting wiped so much that Marchesa can't stay put. If that's the case, you'll probably need to switch the deck up to play more Haste. Urabrask is very good in Marchesa, from what I've seen.
The mana rocks are a necessary evil I think. Having four mana on turn three is nice not only for playing Marchesa but maybe for playing two Slivers. No? Is it imperative to play Marchesa as soon as possible? Ponder, Preordain and Brainstorm are good tips and I should test them.
Yeah, I still don't think 2cmc rocks fit the curve very well. I don't think it should be imperative to land Marchesa that quickly, because you'll usually be wanting to give 2 or more creatures counters the turn she comes down. If she dies in that spot, it's not without some value, and she's available to be cast again where your creatures played behind her will die semi-permanently. That's a 2-3-4 curve as ideal, with Marchesa being on 4. Maybe other decks with higher curves want to play her sooner, but you should get enough cards in your opener to play quickly.
I think you want higher yield with your mana production, if anything, since you have things to do on 2 mana. Higher yield cards like Thran Dynamo will at least let you cast your general an extra time or two. Ideally though, I think this mana curve would be ok just by hitting your drops consistently turn after turn. You don't have to make bigger plays earlier, because your curve is very centralized and tops out at 5.
So, a lot of things to test and try - I think the hardest part will be to decide which cards to take out.
In addition to the rocks, I'd take out the 6 counters. I think you'll be tapping down most turns with this deck. Stuff that lets your creatures come back are also more effective as countermeasures, and if there are things on the board that you need to interact with, a lot of Marchesa decks play wipes, even wipes like Jokulhaups. With everything running as it should, your stuff will be coming back to the field. Or if that's not your cup of tea, Aura Thief is really effective for dealing with those pillowfort board states, especially if you end up going with the Fleshwrither toolbox (which would be great if you find room).
Bottom line, my take is that slivers is one of the most all-out aggro ways to play Marchesa. Playing a lot of mana and counters seems like a different direction.
I had not many chances to play the deck a lot recently but I will have to test these changes before I move on.
I got to play Marchesa more often and more confidently.
Maybe you can help me: ever since I read Jusstice's comment on the "Best commander for tribal strategies" thread about how he once saw a Marchesa, the Black Rose deck with slivers instead of the creatures that usually go with Marchesa work very well, I am obsessed with that idea!
I have tried to brew something during the last two weeks. My thoughts were to include as much card draw as possible together with some ramp to keep a constant stream of slivers coming.
Some might say: "just play Edric, Spymaster of Trest" but I really would like to have Marchesa's effect together with the grixis slivers. In simic colours there are also decent slivers but... well... grixis for me...
Here is the list so far:
1 Marchesa, the Black Rose
LANDS (36)
1 Volcanic Island
1 Steam Vents
1 Badlands
1 Blood Crypt
1 Underground Sea
1 Watery Grave
1 Command Tower
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 City of Brass
1 Mana Confluence
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
5 Swamp
4 Mountain
8 Island
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Academy Ruins
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Tolaria West
1 Bojuka Bog
RAMP (10)
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Talisman of Indulgence
1 Talisman of Dominance
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Dimir Signet
1 Izzet Signet
1 Sword of the Animist
1 Galerider Sliver
1 Striking Sliver
1 Mindlash Sliver
1 Acidic Sliver
1 Shapesharer
1 Frenzy Sliver
1 Heart Sliver
1 Hibernation Sliver
1 Hunter Sliver
1 Leeching Sliver
1 Two-Headed Sliver
1 Winged Sliver
1 Adaptive Automaton
1 Belligerent Sliver
1 Blade Sliver
1 Blur Sliver
1 Taurean Mauler
1 Homing Sliver
1 Mnemonic Sliver
1 Shadow Sliver
1 Sedge Sliver
1 Syphon Sliver
1 Bonesplitter Sliver
1 Shifting Sliver
1 Sakashima the Impostor
1 Dack's Duplicate
1 Battle Sliver
1 Synapse Sliver
1 Fury Sliver
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Shred Memory
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Rhystic Study
1 Dimir Machinations
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Perplex
1 Necropotence
1 Coastal Piracy
1 Bident of Thassa
1 Clutch of the Undercity
REMOVAL (4)
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Fire Covenant
1 Crosis's Charm
1 Grixis Charm
MISC (7)
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
1 Torpor Orb
1 Oversold Cemetery
1 Shared Animosity
1 Unspeakable Symbol
1 Stranglehold
1 Rite of Replication
Right now the deck exists only on paper but I am eager to build it in reality (already have most of the cards)!
Is 27 slivers enough?
The cards with transmute are mostly there for the tutor ability.
My prime tutor targets in the early game will be Necropotence and Torpor Orb.
I would like to fit in a few more counterspells but what to cut?
I included Journeyer's Kite because I do not have access to green but do not want to miss land drops. Is Journeyer's Kite too slow for this deck?
Evolving Wilds, Terramorphic Expanse and Grixis Panorama should be the appropriate fetch lands but all the ones I own are currently in other decks.
Please help me with suggestions!
UGTatyova, Benthic DruidUG | RBRakdos the DefilerRB | RNorin the WaryR | BGThelon of HavenwoodBG
Generally the deck looks really promising but still needs a lot of work.
My biggest concern was that I could not reasonably interact with the board.
Counterspells are really nice but sometimes I need to do something against abilities or effects that are not cast or permanents that are already in play.
The average number of Slivers I had in play was four which is not so great. I observed that the deck can get in quite some damage during the early game but the longer the game goes on the better boards my opponents have. I think I have to be even faster...
So here are some changes I made:
- Journeyer's Kite
+ Wayfarer's Bauble (faster acceleration)
- Living Death
- Patriarch's Bidding
+ Crosis's Charm
+ Grixis Charm (more board interaction, lowering the cmc of the deck)
- Sneak Attack
+ Clutch of the Undercity (another tutor effect for the really important Coastal Piracy / Bident of Thassa)
- Mountain
+ Island
Rhystic Study has under-performed a lot of the times I had it in play. Maybe I should look for card-draw alternatives.
A Sliver I am frowning upon right now is Vampiric Sliver. Sure, Slivers getting +1/+1 counters seems awesome in a Marchesa, the Black Rose deck but come to think of it: when will it ever happen? First of all I want to give my Slivers as much evasion as possible to get the damage through so they will rarely be blocked.
Secondly if my opponent decides to block with creatures it is likely that also my Sliver will die. The only scenario I can think of would be Vampiric Sliver together with Hunter Sliver or Bident of Thassa.
So I think this one should be replaced by another Sliver (I do not want to go below 27 Slivers in this deck).
Toxin Sliver would be a kind of pseudo-evasion: either you let my Slivers pass or your blocking creatures will die.
Homing Sliver would be another option for more tutoring (and I always like to reduce the cmc of the deck).
Thorncaster Sliver would be great too: declare four Slivers as attackers and kill a potential blocker or another creature that needs to be removed with the four damage. Big downside: depends on the number of Slivers I control and the high cmc.
So do you have any suggestions concerning interaction/removal, replacement for Rhystic Study, replacement for Vampiric Sliver?
UGTatyova, Benthic DruidUG | RBRakdos the DefilerRB | RNorin the WaryR | BGThelon of HavenwoodBG
Made more changes:
Mana base:
- Evolving Wilds
- Terramorphic Expanse
- Myriad Landscape
- Grixis Panorama
- Mutavault
- Winding Canyons
- Swamp
+ Bloodstained Mire
+ Polluted Delta
+ Scalding Tarn
+ City of Brass
+ Mana Confluence
+ Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
+ Island
Finally got the fetchlands.
I found that I lacked coloured mana producing lands too often. I know that there are thins like Crosis's Catacombs or Crumbling Necropolis but they are a tempo loss which is really bad here. I generally try to avoid lands that enter the battelfield tapped in this deck.
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth is mainly in for the triple black costs of Necropotence.
- Chromatic Lantern
+ Sword of the Animist
I think the sword will be much more usefull putting lands directly into play and giving a bit of colour fixing.
- Chrome Mox
+ Fire Covenant
I definitely wanted to have another removal spell and I found out that life is a well-manageable resource in this deck.
Chrome Mox's card disadvantage and the lack of another possible cut led to my descision to swap it.
- Vampiric Sliver
- Magma Sliver
+ Homing Sliver
+ Toxin Sliver
As mentioned in my last post I wanted to remove Vampiric Sliver. For now I replaced it with Toxin Sliver but I still consider this a flex spot to test other Slivers.
After some games I found Magma Sliver too awkward to use because it is most effective if I attack with only one Sliver which is rarely the case. I think another tutor ability in the form of Homing Sliver fits better.
I will soon test this new configuration.
UGTatyova, Benthic DruidUG | RBRakdos the DefilerRB | RNorin the WaryR | BGThelon of HavenwoodBG
Basal Sliver - This is one of the main strengths of running slivers. Sacrifice abilities like this take over when you're getting your creatures back for free. The effect is so good that you should probably also consider Morgue Toad - Blood Vassal and Pawn of Ulamog. The mana production is just that great.
Mindwhip Sliver - The same them with sacrificing things, just some pointed disruption with it.
Telekinetic Sliver - This kind of card is how controlling the board in Slivers is done.
Psionic Sliver - Same thing for this card. There aren't a lot of natural ways to get your slivers to 4 health and above, but Marchesa could get some of them there before you land this. And once you can to 6-8 damage on demand, good things start happening.
If you feel like you're push the sliver count down to make room, I would look at the ones at 4+ cmc. Just about any of the 3cmc ones aren't going to be a problem, because they gain each others abilities of course. I'm thinking Toxin Sliver and Shifting Sliver could go. You have just about every evasion silver available at <3cmc already. You should be able to hit one reliably.
There are also the slivers that aren't slivers:
Taruean Mauler - a terriffic beating, enough said. Don't worry about it being a "dumb" beater, because slivers make it smart.
Shapesharer - Clones are key for doubling up on your Bonesplitter Sliver effects. This one can tak the form of something else too early on, until it's better to go as a sliver.
Sakashima the Impostor - I lean toward this one as a clone, because copying Marchesa early can be great. Really though, Phanstasmal Image any other clone works great. There are enough clones that you can hit your desired sliver density that way, and have some flexibility. Some of the sliver abilities are redundant, but others like the pump ones are cumulative. Lean toward the cumulative ones.
Dack's Duplicant - I especially like this one for built-in Haste and Dethrone.
A few tricks to make your pump slivers work:
Blade of Selves - Get it on a Bonesplitter Sliver, win.
Rite of Replication - +10 power on each sliver sounds good to me.
Splinter Twin, Twinflame, etc, also work better than average.
Márton Stromgald - With all the clones. etc, Marton starts to do some work. He shows up in a lot of Marchesa decks.
For the counterspells, Glen Elendra Archmage seems like it just fits in much better with the mana requirments and the Dethrone. Stratus Dancer is not too bad either for the same reason, although you can't get it back morphed after it dies. The Spiketail Drakeling line of creatures can be great for tax effects. Otherwise, I really don't see a lot of spots where you'll want to leave up 3 mana with this deck.
As far as the nuts and bolts of the deck go, I think Coastal Piracy and Bident of Thassa will be good long-term draw sources. I also like all the tutorability, because you'll mostly really want pump slivers when you're not drawing any. I think Fleshwrither would be great here. Otherwise, I think you'd be getting value from Oversold Cemetery really quickly. I also like Slithermuse in Marchesa, Disciple of Bolas is a mut-run, and would always play Unspeakable Symbol with her too. River Kelpie tends to be all kinds of value. Skullclamp is hard to pass up, too. I'd check out Soulrune's deck for ideas, since a lot of them are just indespensible to this general (http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/562460-solrunes-marchesa-the-black-rose-flipping-thrones)
One tip I will add, I really don't like the mana rocks in this deck that cost more than 1 mana. You have enough fixing to not need signets for that, besides (although, I'd all all 3 filter lands). I think the deck wants to be productive at both 2 and 3 mana, as long as you can make sure to hit the lands for Marchesa on Turn 4. Marchesa on her own on Turn 3 might be what some Marchesa builds want, but I don't think this one. So, I would focus the ramp and draw on 1cmc - Sol Ring, Mana Vault, Mana Crypt (if you have it), Ponder, Preordain, Brianstorm. I think every game where you open creature on 2, creature on 3, and Marchsa on Turn 4, you'll be extremely happy. After that point, you really don't need more than 5 mana for any pressing reason. You'll be doing very well on your deck's mana requirements by simply having enough draw to keep hitting your land drops. And you'll notice not having to suffer the tempo loss from spending for a mana rock upfront.
Played the deck again today. It did not win but still was a lot of fun.
Clone effects - oh yeah! Never thought of them and I will definitely try Taurean Mauler, Shapesharer and Dack's Duplicate. Already changed Toxin Sliver for Sakashima the Impostor.
Having more pump Slivers is just awesome!
Blade of Selves and Rite of Replication seem also very good and need to be tested.
Concerning Basal Sliver: of course I read in your comment in the tribal thread that this Sliver should be especially good but I have two questions: what to do with so much black mana in this deck? And: in all the games I played the deck Marchesa just did not live long enough to give my Slivers +1/+1 counters.
So basically I cannot sacrifice my Slivers and get them back most of the time.
Which brings me to: today I wished I still had Patriarch's Bidding and Living Death in the deck. Many board wipes were cast and though I could recover well by a good amount of card draw many important Slivers (e.g. Syphon Sliver) ended up in the graveyard. The only way to get them back was by using Volrath's Stronghold.
You already proposed Oversold Cemetery and maybe additionally I should try Phyrexian Reclamation?
About Telekinetic Sliver: I always play the deck as an aggro deck. Sure that Sliver's effect is nice but I think I would rather attack with them.
I wanted to include Psionic Sliver in the inital build of the deck and the only reason not to do it was its high cmc. Maybe I should rethink that. It becomes even better with more ways to get Slivers back from the grave.
I read Soulrune's deck and that gave me a good idea of which cards are played by default in a Marchesa deck. Now I am a bit torn: if I play too many non-Slivers in this deck because they are just great with Marchesa then I will lose the synergy with the rest of the Sliver tribe.
Another thing: Torpor Orb is a real powerhouse which I want to keep playing. As a result I would like to use as few creatures with ETB effects as possible - contrary to the default Marchesa build...
I think I will have to play the deck more often to decide what to do.
The mana rocks are a necessary evil I think. Having four mana on turn three is nice not only for playing Marchesa but maybe for playing two Slivers. No? Is it imperative to play Marchesa as soon as possible?
Ponder, Preordain and Brainstorm are good tips and I should test them.
So, a lot of things to test and try - I think the hardest part will be to decide which cards to take out.
Thanks again man for your explanations! I really appreciate them.
UGTatyova, Benthic DruidUG | RBRakdos the DefilerRB | RNorin the WaryR | BGThelon of HavenwoodBG
I'm assuming that you're not talking about getting Marchesa killed a lot the first turn she's played. That would be quite a lot of hate, but I'm not sure. There's the option of running more things like Anger, Lightning Greaves, etc, so that you can attack the player on the throne right away. There are also things like Sage of Fables if you are eating so much removal that she's coming back once and getting killed a second time before she can attack.
If you're talking about a situation where you've got Marchesa on board, then you topdeck a mana sliver, play it, and she gets killed, that's just the sliver being a worse late game topdeck than it is early game. Also, haste would help more with your topdecks being able to attack right away and get counters. I have to say, I have not had the experience of getting wiped so much that Marchesa can't stay put. If that's the case, you'll probably need to switch the deck up to play more Haste. Urabrask is very good in Marchesa, from what I've seen.
Yeah, I still don't think 2cmc rocks fit the curve very well. I don't think it should be imperative to land Marchesa that quickly, because you'll usually be wanting to give 2 or more creatures counters the turn she comes down. If she dies in that spot, it's not without some value, and she's available to be cast again where your creatures played behind her will die semi-permanently. That's a 2-3-4 curve as ideal, with Marchesa being on 4. Maybe other decks with higher curves want to play her sooner, but you should get enough cards in your opener to play quickly.
I think you want higher yield with your mana production, if anything, since you have things to do on 2 mana. Higher yield cards like Thran Dynamo will at least let you cast your general an extra time or two. Ideally though, I think this mana curve would be ok just by hitting your drops consistently turn after turn. You don't have to make bigger plays earlier, because your curve is very centralized and tops out at 5.
In addition to the rocks, I'd take out the 6 counters. I think you'll be tapping down most turns with this deck. Stuff that lets your creatures come back are also more effective as countermeasures, and if there are things on the board that you need to interact with, a lot of Marchesa decks play wipes, even wipes like Jokulhaups. With everything running as it should, your stuff will be coming back to the field. Or if that's not your cup of tea, Aura Thief is really effective for dealing with those pillowfort board states, especially if you end up going with the Fleshwrither toolbox (which would be great if you find room).
Bottom line, my take is that slivers is one of the most all-out aggro ways to play Marchesa. Playing a lot of mana and counters seems like a different direction.
- Coldsteel Heart
- Star Compass
- Diffusion Sliver
- Arcane Denial
- Counterspell
- Hinder
- Spell Crumple
- Dissipate
The counterspells did go except for Muddle the Mixture because I mainly use it for tutoring.
This is what is now in:
+ Mana Crypt
+ Shapesharer
+ Taurean Mauler
+ Dack's Duplicate
+ Phyrexian Reclamation
+ Oversold Cemetery
+ Unspeakable Symbol
+ Rite of Replication
I had not many chances to play the deck a lot recently but I will have to test these changes before I move on.
I got to play Marchesa more often and more confidently.
UGTatyova, Benthic DruidUG | RBRakdos the DefilerRB | RNorin the WaryR | BGThelon of HavenwoodBG