Mina and Denn, Wildborn: The Land Just Can't Sit Still
"If you ever try to play that deck against me again, I'm walking away from the table."
Look at them, they're enjoying this!
What is this deck?
This deck is the direct result of its general. More than a few people took note of the synergy with lands like Gaea's Cradle that can be bounced and replayed multiple times a turn for a huge profit. Along the same lines, many combinations of cards like Mana Flare can make any land turn into profit. (My personal favorite is Sasaya, Orochi Ascendant who squares mana rather than doubling it and can be flipped and fed by Mina and Denn's abilities.) But I've played decks filled with Mana Flares before, and I know that playing that sort of thing indiscriminately will let somebody go nuts at a table of 4, and I need that player to be me, which either means going nuts at breakneck speed or controlling the other players. How do I control players in green/red when I'm giving them more mana? Take the mana away, obviously. I originally pondered using mass land destruction as more of a joke than anything, but the more I thought, the more sense it made. Mana Flare obviously does more work for me than anyone else if I have 10 lands and they have 5... but it's even more lopsided if I have 5 and they have none!
And once land destruction was on the table, a bunch of things suddenly clicked. Sure I can profit off land bouncing if I have 2 Mana Flare effects, but what is that 1 extra mana really worth in a deck that can ramp well... unless I have the only 2 lands in play and I'm trying to make 8 mana. Wouldn't land ramping and blowing Myojin of Infinite Rage hurt me most... unless I protect all my lands by bouncing them. All the pieces just sort of fit together into this wondrous contraption where all the lands go from hand into play and from play back to hand or from play into graveyard and from graveyard into hand and then back into play again. In the very first real game this deck played, Heartbeat of Spring and Mana Reflection tripled the mana leading to enough floating to Jokulhaups the world and then immediately drop 6 lands back into play. The game ended with double Creeping Renaissance letting Borborygmos Enraged throw land a total of 48 times. My opponents may feel like the game is being locked down, but that's really just gravy to me.
But be warned: mass land destruction is mass land destruction! This deck is not particularly cutthroat (at least not yet), but it also isn't making any friends any time soon. I will be asking for explicit consent from the table every time I want to play this.
The goal of this deck is to blow everyone else out of the game and continue largely unaffected. It takes a lot of mana to do that, so the first phase of every game is ramping away. To that end, at the moment there are cards that can get Mina and Denn online on turn 3 (Sakura-tribe Scout, Budoka Gardener, Search For Tomorrow, Explore, and Lotus Cobra. Once Mina and Denn are down, card draw effectively turns into ramp, so things like Seer's Sundial, Courser of Kruphix, Keen Sense, or most of the planeswalkers start to build the mana up rapidly.
With an advantage in land established, the deck wants to multiply that advantage literally. Mana Flare, Heartbeat of Spring, Zhur-Taa Ancient, Mana Reflection, and Zendikar Resurgent. About half of those effects are one-sided, and the one's that aren't are so cheap, they're practically free the turn they're played. As a friend once described to me, there's something deeply satisfying about ramping to ramp more, and Mana Flare just does such a good job enabling that. Sometimes you start the turn with 5 lands and Mina and Denn, tap for 3 to play Mana Flare, tap the other 2 for 4 mana, bounce a land to give the commander trample, replay a land to tap back up to 4, pay 4 for Nature's Will, swing in for a couple trample damage and untap 10 mana worth of land. With 1 mana doubler, Garruk, Wildspeaker and Explore are free. With 2 mana doublers, Journey of Discovery entwined is free. With 3 mana doublers, Oracle of Mul-Daya can be free. It is not difficult to cast an entire graveyard worth of spells after a Praetor's Counsel because of the way these things compound.
Destroy
Playing Mana Flare with 2 untapped lands and using them to ramp more is a strong play. Playing Mana Flare with 2 untapped lands and tapping them for Thought's of Ruin to make everyone sac 3 lands (which is all anyone else has) is even stronger (Wildfire and Destructive Force fit in here). Mana doubling is always going to do more for this deck when it has the most lands, but there's a diminishing return on mana. If I have 40 mana a turn and you have 20, I may have double that resource, but we could still either win on any given turn with that much mana. So once this deck has a pile of mana, it seeks to destroy most of it. In a fun little algebraic quirk, if you apply symmetric subtraction before symmetric multiplication, you break the symmetry. I have 6 lands and you have 3. I double the mana and then make us each sacrifice 3 lands. I still have 6 mana, and you have none. Yippee!
Of course, little things like that are not always enough to keep the opposition down, especially at a table with 3 opponents. That's why the big guns are packed: Jokulhaups, Obliterate, Decree of Annihilation, Myojin of Infinite Rage. Indiscriminate destruction is a powerful force, but it takes a little more work to break the symmetry. That's where Min and Denn's second ability shines. 5 lands making 10 mana plays a Myojin. The same 5 lands next turn can bounce themselves (or at least most of themselves) before all lands go, and then Mina and Denn lets you drop 2 back down immediately. It may not work against faster opponents, but having a 7/4 and all the lands in play is a pretty strong set-up for winning.
If the table puts themselves out of reach of a brute force finish, infinite combo is a perfectly valid possibility. The elephant in the room I haven't addressed is that Worldgorger Dragon. Worldgorger Dragon with mana floating to cast Obliterate is a very strong play (especially since you end up with all your lands untapped), but it's much stronger than just that. With the resetting of all thePlaneswalkers, the tappedartifacts, and theetbs, one cycle of the dragon is often enough to start chaining into more until you reach the position of having both Eternal Witness and Greenwarden of Murasa to loop the dragon infinitely and kill everyone.
- If you run Titania, you may consider Sylvan Safekeeper and Zuran Orb. Orb may be worthwhile even without Titania, considering how often you're going to nuke everyone's lands.
- Not sure Fog is necessary in this style of deck, but if you feel you must have such an effect I think Constant Mists or a Spike Weaver/Retreat to Kazandu combo are better options.
Thanks for the many suggestions. They were certainly helpful and thought provoking.
The rangers could be very strong, but I would try to work around them. In my mind, I was going the other direction and taking out the tap to play lands guys to use Exploration and Azusa, Lost but Seeking instead mostly for the extra interaction with Horn of Greed/Recycle, but Recycle is long gone and Horn of Greed probably will become a Courser of Kruphix. I should play a Joraga Treespeaker that can curve into Mina and Denn on turn 3 and have them tapping for mana on turn 4.
Boom // Bust and Wildfire are both on my list of things I'd like to obtain. I forgot Tectonic Break was even a card, and that might just be the best of the bunch (short of Obliterate's very relevant uncounterability.) I would honestly likely keep Thoughts of Ruin over everything but Tectonic Break, Myojin of Infinite Rage, and Obliterate because it's been such an all-star. It's really hard to play most of these and bounce lands to protect them on the same turn, but that 4 mana cost is so cheap, you can easily save your own lands and blow up everyone else's on like turn 4. And then Eternal Witness it and play it again on the same turn. It's been very good in the 7 games I've played with this deck so far.
Engulfing Slagwurm is here because giving it trample is cute. It, Wurmcoil Engine, and Rampaging Baloths are in because I needed some things to actually kill people, and they seemed like fine aoptions from what I had around. I liked the idea of landfall baloths and wurms that exist after Jokulhaups, but the deck does so much better after a board wipe than 2 3/3s anyway, and unless I can get some haste enablers in here, the baloth tokens feel like they're either useless and die or overkill on already crippled opponents. That's been the case every time I've played Rampaging Baloths in a deck. Zendikar's Roil would probably be better just for being Obliterate-proof, but I'd still prefer more immediate threats. I don't know for certain what big fat things I would like, but your 2 suggestions are good as I could use some mana sinks.
Sylvan Safekeeper is a good idea. (Sidenote: Vexing Shusher is a good idea.) Zuran Orb is probably not impactful enough to justify the card slot even once I get a Titania, since that interaction is definitely not guaranteed.
The Fogs are for those times that there's one turn where everyone has mana doubling and I haven't crushed their spirits yet. Constant Mists would be far better than the fogs I have though. Spike Weaver would just die before that combo did much of anything, I think. That combo seems better for G/B decks that can bring the Spike Weaver back easily as well as feed it. A Fog did win a game though here by stopping 88 golem tokens with Coat of Arms on the field, so I feel no regret for including them for now even if they just become cuts for more valuable pieces.
I'm not going to buy anything for a deck this hateful, but I'm especially not going to buy a Crucible of Worlds. That thing is expensive! If I get opportunity to trade for one, I'll probably do it. Also, I think I want another E-witness type effect, probably a Greenwarden of Murasa, since the recursion aspect of this deck has been its biggest strength. I'm half-tempted to play Riftsweeper just for Praetor's Counsel. Then again, I'm also tempted by Elixir of Immortality just to make sure the game keeps going. Blighted Woodlands and Wooded Foothills are way better for me than the Evolving Wilds and Terramorphic Expanse I currently have, but I think I really want to minimize the coming into play tapped here so I question Myriad Landscape a little. I don't mind my two fetching things right now because so far I just want 1 ramping thing on turn 1 or 2 for turn 3 Mina and Denn, but if I add in some 1 drop mana dorks, I might take those two out.
I agree some of the draw is questionable, but I disagree with about half of the suggested replacements. Garruk, Primal Hunter, Tower of Fortunes, Commune with Lava, Momentous Fall, and Chandra, Pyromaster have been unquestionably great. Snake Umbra and Keen Sense are nuts on Borborygmos, Enraged, Inferno Titan, or Kumano, Master Yamabushi, not even counting that Mina and Denn can make anything trample. Keen Sense requiring those to be useful might make it bad enough to cut, but Snake Umbra lets a creature survive Obliterate, and that's a strong play I'm gonna keep alive. Horn of Greed is too nice and should be cut, Loreseeker's Stone costs too much mana and should be cut, and Soul's Majesty gets me 2-for-1'd and should be cut. Staff of Nin would be perfect if it was an enchantment, but getting hit by artifact destruction hurts it too much. Mind's Eye requires mana that I have a lot of but generally all in one big clump since it's coming from mana doubling. In this deck, Mind's Eye is basically half as efficient as normal. Old Kozilek shuffles my graveyard in outside of my control which is bad news for a deck that loves Praetor's Counsel (I'd really hate to have Borborygmos down and Life from the Loam going and hit Kozilek of a Borborygmos attack trigger). And wheels would refuel people once they've run out of lands and that's a bad idea. New Kozilek would be beautiful but requires me to get one and make enough colorless mana to support it. New Chandra and Ugin would probably do awesome. I might put in a Knollspine Dragon for that one-sided-wheel effect.
Thanks again for the help. If I owned all the good suggestions you made, I'd really have to start thinking about what I can cut.
I got some new things for the deck through trade or just pulling things out of other decks. Mostly just a refining process going on here.
Fervor is in because I want haste when I draw the whole deck, but it will become a Fires of Yavimaya once one of them makes its way into my hands.
I also typed up the deck strategy section now that I have enough of the pieces I imagine in the deck to be able to really describe what I'm trying to do with it.
Also, Zendikar Resurgent has been awesome here. It's not a draw engine to be underestimated.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
I updated to what I currently have. Takeaways of the changes:
Land count is up to 42.
The conventional land ramp got axed for more lands and more extra land play effects.
I acquired enough mana doubling and land destroying cards to cut down to my favorite 7 of each. It feels like a good balance there.
Zhur-Taa Ancient beat out Keeper of Progenitus because it Birthing Pods from Mina and Denn.
Titania + Obliterate is exactly as game ending as I imagined.
Overlaid Terrain seems like a big drawback, but it lets forests tap for firebreathing, intereacts favorably with Mana Reflection, and can actually net mana the turn it's played if you've got more mass recursion than lands to drop. (btw, had to look it up, but Overlaid Terrain reentering alongside land from Worldgorger Dragon will not make you sacrifice the land, so that's neat.)
Animist's Awakening is sweet with mana doublers, and really sweet with mana doublers and eternal witness. Tap 5 lands for 15 and hit 6 lands, tap those for 18 to play eternal witness and do it again.
Fun story: I tapped my lands for like 16 mana and attempted to play Jokulhaups. My opponent nearly chose to let it resolve because his available counter was Pact of Negation and he thought I might have a second land destruction spell.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
Any updates here? This is a sweet list, and I'm modeling mine after this to some extent. It's so much more interesting than the super generic landfall Mina and Denn decks you see.
Private Mod Note
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I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: URDelver
Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
Yeah, I've supported this deck quite a bit even though I haven't maintained the thread.
So, changes I've made since I last updated the list.
I cut some things that I've already forgotten what half of them were because they were cut for space more than not liking them. On that list of cuts was Steel Hellkite because I was getting a little crowded at the 6 drop slot and the other 6 drops are all potentially cogs in the machine. I also tried and removed Avenger of Zendikar because its power is a little too independant from the situation for my tastes. I prefer to play cards that are made really good by the deck they're in than cards that are just good period.
Search For Tomorrow: A way to get the turn 3 Mina and Denn, but also a ramp spell that puts the land into play untapped, so it can be made mana neutral or mana positive to cast it for its actual cost late in the game.
Genesis Wave: It's a mana sink that usually makes more mana than I spent to cast it, which is pretty good. Also it probably wins the game by the time you've finished chaining it into lands and eternal witness and omnath and akroma's memorial.
Chandra, Flamecaller: The plus can close out games pretty quick after a Decree of Annihilation, the -X is solid board control if people get too feisty (and my creatures have plenty of toughness floating around), and the 0 draws cards/can be fed by Mina and Denn bouncing lands/can feed into Life From the Loam and Creeping Renaissance nonsense. And I find something satisfying about have two Chandras and two Garruks.
Splendid Reclamation: We put lands in the graveyard on purpose. It's a natural fit. The instinctual thing here is to get to 10 mana, Jokulhaups and the Reclamation all the lands back, but I've pretty much been slamming it with Borborygmos or Overlaid Terrain thus far. Turn 4 Mina and Denn into turn 5 Overlaid Terrain, land, land, Splendid Reclamation is pretty sweet.
To speak of the direction the deck has moved, it really just keeps heading toward the "cog in the machine" approach. On occasion, the deck still wins by just destroying all lands while having the only board, and the threat of that forcing people to play differently opens up the opportunities to go crazy, but my favorite part of playing this is in doing things like elaborate Worldgorger Dragon chains or playing ramp that makes more mana than I started with. Even Kessig Wolf Run seems to mostly get used for feeding Momentous Fall. And other than not owning Crucible of Worlds, I still feel like I want a second 1 drop and a second 4 drop to flash out the Birthing Pod curve (possible picks: Sylvan Safekeeper and Nantuko Cultivator or Stone-seeder Hierophant). I also might want to get Nature's Will back in here When I play this deck anymore, my opponents see the dedicated land destruction deck that's build to play through that, where I basically see the land destruction as a piece of the almighty pile of land synergies, just with really good fringe benefits.
Look at them, they're enjoying this!
This deck is the direct result of its general. More than a few people took note of the synergy with lands like Gaea's Cradle that can be bounced and replayed multiple times a turn for a huge profit. Along the same lines, many combinations of cards like Mana Flare can make any land turn into profit. (My personal favorite is Sasaya, Orochi Ascendant who squares mana rather than doubling it and can be flipped and fed by Mina and Denn's abilities.) But I've played decks filled with Mana Flares before, and I know that playing that sort of thing indiscriminately will let somebody go nuts at a table of 4, and I need that player to be me, which either means going nuts at breakneck speed or controlling the other players. How do I control players in green/red when I'm giving them more mana? Take the mana away, obviously. I originally pondered using mass land destruction as more of a joke than anything, but the more I thought, the more sense it made. Mana Flare obviously does more work for me than anyone else if I have 10 lands and they have 5... but it's even more lopsided if I have 5 and they have none!
And once land destruction was on the table, a bunch of things suddenly clicked. Sure I can profit off land bouncing if I have 2 Mana Flare effects, but what is that 1 extra mana really worth in a deck that can ramp well... unless I have the only 2 lands in play and I'm trying to make 8 mana. Wouldn't land ramping and blowing Myojin of Infinite Rage hurt me most... unless I protect all my lands by bouncing them. All the pieces just sort of fit together into this wondrous contraption where all the lands go from hand into play and from play back to hand or from play into graveyard and from graveyard into hand and then back into play again. In the very first real game this deck played, Heartbeat of Spring and Mana Reflection tripled the mana leading to enough floating to Jokulhaups the world and then immediately drop 6 lands back into play. The game ended with double Creeping Renaissance letting Borborygmos Enraged throw land a total of 48 times. My opponents may feel like the game is being locked down, but that's really just gravy to me.
But be warned: mass land destruction is mass land destruction! This deck is not particularly cutthroat (at least not yet), but it also isn't making any friends any time soon. I will be asking for explicit consent from the table every time I want to play this.
14x Forest
14x Mountain
1x Blighted Woodland
1x Command Tower
1x Evolving Wilds
1x Haunted Fengraf
1x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Myriad Landscape
1x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Rogue's Passage
1x Temple of Abandon
1x Terrain Generator
1x Terramorphic Expanse
1x Tranquil Thicket
1x Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
Creatures(20)
1x Sakura-tribe Scout
1x Budoka Gardener
1x Lotus Cobra
1x Courser of Kruphix
1x Eternal Witness
1x Sasaya, Orochi Ascendant
1x Oracle of Mul Daya
1x Acidic Slime
1x Kumano, Master Yamabushi
1x Titania, Protector of Argoth
1x Zhur-Taa Ancient
1x Brutalizer Exarch
1x Greenwarden of Murasa
1x Inferno Titan
1x Worldgorger Dragon
1x Omnath, Locus of Rage
1x Knollspine Dragon
1x Borborygmos Enraged
1x Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
1x Myojin of Infinite Rage
1x Birthing Pod
1x Seer's Sundial
1x Akroma's Memorial
Enchantments (9)
1x Exploration
1x Keen Sense
1x Fires of Yavimaya
1x Heartbeat of Spring
1x Mana Flare
1x Snake Umbra
1x Overlaid Terrain
1x Mana Reflection
1x Zendikar Resurgent
Instants (5)
1x Beast Within
1x Momentous Fall
1x Chord of Calling
1x Comet Storm
1x Commune with Lava
Planeswalkers (4)
1x Chandra, Pyromaster
1x Garruk Wildspeaker
1x Garruk, Primal Hunter
1x Chandra, Flamecaller
Sorceries (16)
1x Explore
1x Life from the Loam
1x Journey of Discovery
1x Search For Tomorrow
1x Splendid Reclamation
1x Thoughts of Ruin
1x Creeping Renaissance
1x Rude Awakening
1x Jokulhaups
1x Wildfire
1x Obliterate
1x Praetor's Counsel
1x Decree of Annihilation
1x Tectonic Break
1x Animist's Awakening
1x Genesis Wave
Ramp
The goal of this deck is to blow everyone else out of the game and continue largely unaffected. It takes a lot of mana to do that, so the first phase of every game is ramping away. To that end, at the moment there are cards that can get Mina and Denn online on turn 3 (Sakura-tribe Scout, Budoka Gardener, Search For Tomorrow, Explore, and Lotus Cobra. Once Mina and Denn are down, card draw effectively turns into ramp, so things like Seer's Sundial, Courser of Kruphix, Keen Sense, or most of the planeswalkers start to build the mana up rapidly.
With an advantage in land established, the deck wants to multiply that advantage literally. Mana Flare, Heartbeat of Spring, Zhur-Taa Ancient, Mana Reflection, and Zendikar Resurgent. About half of those effects are one-sided, and the one's that aren't are so cheap, they're practically free the turn they're played. As a friend once described to me, there's something deeply satisfying about ramping to ramp more, and Mana Flare just does such a good job enabling that. Sometimes you start the turn with 5 lands and Mina and Denn, tap for 3 to play Mana Flare, tap the other 2 for 4 mana, bounce a land to give the commander trample, replay a land to tap back up to 4, pay 4 for Nature's Will, swing in for a couple trample damage and untap 10 mana worth of land. With 1 mana doubler, Garruk, Wildspeaker and Explore are free. With 2 mana doublers, Journey of Discovery entwined is free. With 3 mana doublers, Oracle of Mul-Daya can be free. It is not difficult to cast an entire graveyard worth of spells after a Praetor's Counsel because of the way these things compound.
Destroy
Playing Mana Flare with 2 untapped lands and using them to ramp more is a strong play. Playing Mana Flare with 2 untapped lands and tapping them for Thought's of Ruin to make everyone sac 3 lands (which is all anyone else has) is even stronger (Wildfire and Destructive Force fit in here). Mana doubling is always going to do more for this deck when it has the most lands, but there's a diminishing return on mana. If I have 40 mana a turn and you have 20, I may have double that resource, but we could still either win on any given turn with that much mana. So once this deck has a pile of mana, it seeks to destroy most of it. In a fun little algebraic quirk, if you apply symmetric subtraction before symmetric multiplication, you break the symmetry. I have 6 lands and you have 3. I double the mana and then make us each sacrifice 3 lands. I still have 6 mana, and you have none. Yippee!
Of course, little things like that are not always enough to keep the opposition down, especially at a table with 3 opponents. That's why the big guns are packed: Jokulhaups, Obliterate, Decree of Annihilation, Myojin of Infinite Rage. Indiscriminate destruction is a powerful force, but it takes a little more work to break the symmetry. That's where Min and Denn's second ability shines. 5 lands making 10 mana plays a Myojin. The same 5 lands next turn can bounce themselves (or at least most of themselves) before all lands go, and then Mina and Denn lets you drop 2 back down immediately. It may not work against faster opponents, but having a 7/4 and all the lands in play is a pretty strong set-up for winning.
Win
How this deck wins is very heavily dependent on the opponents. Many people scoop when they see you Obliterate and then reset your board before even passing the turn. A control player might give up when that Myojin lands and pops while they're tapped out. But concession isn't a dignified way to win, so this is built to be able to end the game fairly quickly after everyone else is knocked out. Inferno Titan, Comet Storm, and Kumana, Master Yamabushi are all deadly mana sinks. Omnath, Locus of Rage and Titania, Protector of Argoth will go in for quick finishes post land-wipe. Borborygmos Enraged can really end the game fast with Life from the Loam, Creeping Renaissance, Praetor's Counsel, and Snake Umbra/Keen Sense involved.
If the table puts themselves out of reach of a brute force finish, infinite combo is a perfectly valid possibility. The elephant in the room I haven't addressed is that Worldgorger Dragon. Worldgorger Dragon with mana floating to cast Obliterate is a very strong play (especially since you end up with all your lands untapped), but it's much stronger than just that. With the resetting of all the Planeswalkers, the tapped artifacts, and the etbs, one cycle of the dragon is often enough to start chaining into more until you reach the position of having both Eternal Witness and Greenwarden of Murasa to loop the dragon infinitely and kill everyone.
- I think Scryb Ranger and Quirion Ranger are good ideas for this deck, and they get even better alongside more creatures with relevant tap effects like Budoka Gardener, Uvenwald Tracker, Birds of Paradise, or Dwarven Miner.
- Wildfire seems worthwhile as does Boom // Bust and Tectonic Break ; I'd replace Thoughts of Ruin and maaaybe Jokhulaups with one of these.
- Steel Hellkite and/or Genesis Hydra feel like better choices at the top end than Engulfing Slagwurm (although of course Titania and Omnath are even better than that).
- If you run Titania, you may consider Sylvan Safekeeper and Zuran Orb. Orb may be worthwhile even without Titania, considering how often you're going to nuke everyone's lands.
- I'd also consider Zendikar's Roil and Courser of Kruphix as additional "landfall" effects.
- Not sure Fog is necessary in this style of deck, but if you feel you must have such an effect I think Constant Mists or a Spike Weaver/Retreat to Kazandu combo are better options.
- With Life from the Loam, Praetor's Council, Creeping Renaissance, and hopefully someday a Crucible of Worlds here, you really want to add Blighted Woodland, Wooded Foothills, Myriad Landscape, and cycling lands like Forgotten Cave and Tranquil Thicket to churn out value with.
- Some of your card-drawing options seem a little questionable. Consider eventually (Budget allowing, of course) Harmonize, Mind's Eye, Staff of Nin, Wheel of Fortune, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, Kozilek, the Great Distortion, Reforge the Soul, and Chandra, Flamecaller instead. It's only on his ultimate but Ugin, the Spirit Dragon also seems good here.
Hope that helps!
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
The rangers could be very strong, but I would try to work around them. In my mind, I was going the other direction and taking out the tap to play lands guys to use Exploration and Azusa, Lost but Seeking instead mostly for the extra interaction with Horn of Greed/Recycle, but Recycle is long gone and Horn of Greed probably will become a Courser of Kruphix. I should play a Joraga Treespeaker that can curve into Mina and Denn on turn 3 and have them tapping for mana on turn 4.
Boom // Bust and Wildfire are both on my list of things I'd like to obtain. I forgot Tectonic Break was even a card, and that might just be the best of the bunch (short of Obliterate's very relevant uncounterability.) I would honestly likely keep Thoughts of Ruin over everything but Tectonic Break, Myojin of Infinite Rage, and Obliterate because it's been such an all-star. It's really hard to play most of these and bounce lands to protect them on the same turn, but that 4 mana cost is so cheap, you can easily save your own lands and blow up everyone else's on like turn 4. And then Eternal Witness it and play it again on the same turn. It's been very good in the 7 games I've played with this deck so far.
Engulfing Slagwurm is here because giving it trample is cute. It, Wurmcoil Engine, and Rampaging Baloths are in because I needed some things to actually kill people, and they seemed like fine aoptions from what I had around. I liked the idea of landfall baloths and wurms that exist after Jokulhaups, but the deck does so much better after a board wipe than 2 3/3s anyway, and unless I can get some haste enablers in here, the baloth tokens feel like they're either useless and die or overkill on already crippled opponents. That's been the case every time I've played Rampaging Baloths in a deck. Zendikar's Roil would probably be better just for being Obliterate-proof, but I'd still prefer more immediate threats. I don't know for certain what big fat things I would like, but your 2 suggestions are good as I could use some mana sinks.
Sylvan Safekeeper is a good idea. (Sidenote: Vexing Shusher is a good idea.) Zuran Orb is probably not impactful enough to justify the card slot even once I get a Titania, since that interaction is definitely not guaranteed.
The Fogs are for those times that there's one turn where everyone has mana doubling and I haven't crushed their spirits yet. Constant Mists would be far better than the fogs I have though. Spike Weaver would just die before that combo did much of anything, I think. That combo seems better for G/B decks that can bring the Spike Weaver back easily as well as feed it. A Fog did win a game though here by stopping 88 golem tokens with Coat of Arms on the field, so I feel no regret for including them for now even if they just become cuts for more valuable pieces.
I'm not going to buy anything for a deck this hateful, but I'm especially not going to buy a Crucible of Worlds. That thing is expensive! If I get opportunity to trade for one, I'll probably do it. Also, I think I want another E-witness type effect, probably a Greenwarden of Murasa, since the recursion aspect of this deck has been its biggest strength. I'm half-tempted to play Riftsweeper just for Praetor's Counsel. Then again, I'm also tempted by Elixir of Immortality just to make sure the game keeps going. Blighted Woodlands and Wooded Foothills are way better for me than the Evolving Wilds and Terramorphic Expanse I currently have, but I think I really want to minimize the coming into play tapped here so I question Myriad Landscape a little. I don't mind my two fetching things right now because so far I just want 1 ramping thing on turn 1 or 2 for turn 3 Mina and Denn, but if I add in some 1 drop mana dorks, I might take those two out.
I agree some of the draw is questionable, but I disagree with about half of the suggested replacements. Garruk, Primal Hunter, Tower of Fortunes, Commune with Lava, Momentous Fall, and Chandra, Pyromaster have been unquestionably great. Snake Umbra and Keen Sense are nuts on Borborygmos, Enraged, Inferno Titan, or Kumano, Master Yamabushi, not even counting that Mina and Denn can make anything trample. Keen Sense requiring those to be useful might make it bad enough to cut, but Snake Umbra lets a creature survive Obliterate, and that's a strong play I'm gonna keep alive. Horn of Greed is too nice and should be cut, Loreseeker's Stone costs too much mana and should be cut, and Soul's Majesty gets me 2-for-1'd and should be cut. Staff of Nin would be perfect if it was an enchantment, but getting hit by artifact destruction hurts it too much. Mind's Eye requires mana that I have a lot of but generally all in one big clump since it's coming from mana doubling. In this deck, Mind's Eye is basically half as efficient as normal. Old Kozilek shuffles my graveyard in outside of my control which is bad news for a deck that loves Praetor's Counsel (I'd really hate to have Borborygmos down and Life from the Loam going and hit Kozilek of a Borborygmos attack trigger). And wheels would refuel people once they've run out of lands and that's a bad idea. New Kozilek would be beautiful but requires me to get one and make enough colorless mana to support it. New Chandra and Ugin would probably do awesome. I might put in a Knollspine Dragon for that one-sided-wheel effect.
Thanks again for the help. If I owned all the good suggestions you made, I'd really have to start thinking about what I can cut.
Fervor is in because I want haste when I draw the whole deck, but it will become a Fires of Yavimaya once one of them makes its way into my hands.
I also typed up the deck strategy section now that I have enough of the pieces I imagine in the deck to be able to really describe what I'm trying to do with it.
Also, Zendikar Resurgent has been awesome here. It's not a draw engine to be underestimated.
I'm SUPER interested in screwing with my friends/playgroup.
Hope to hear from you soon!
Land count is up to 42.
The conventional land ramp got axed for more lands and more extra land play effects.
I acquired enough mana doubling and land destroying cards to cut down to my favorite 7 of each. It feels like a good balance there.
Zhur-Taa Ancient beat out Keeper of Progenitus because it Birthing Pods from Mina and Denn.
Titania + Obliterate is exactly as game ending as I imagined.
Overlaid Terrain seems like a big drawback, but it lets forests tap for firebreathing, intereacts favorably with Mana Reflection, and can actually net mana the turn it's played if you've got more mass recursion than lands to drop. (btw, had to look it up, but Overlaid Terrain reentering alongside land from Worldgorger Dragon will not make you sacrifice the land, so that's neat.)
Animist's Awakening is sweet with mana doublers, and really sweet with mana doublers and eternal witness. Tap 5 lands for 15 and hit 6 lands, tap those for 18 to play eternal witness and do it again.
Fun story: I tapped my lands for like 16 mana and attempted to play Jokulhaups. My opponent nearly chose to let it resolve because his available counter was Pact of Negation and he thought I might have a second land destruction spell.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
So, changes I've made since I last updated the list.
I cut some things that I've already forgotten what half of them were because they were cut for space more than not liking them. On that list of cuts was Steel Hellkite because I was getting a little crowded at the 6 drop slot and the other 6 drops are all potentially cogs in the machine. I also tried and removed Avenger of Zendikar because its power is a little too independant from the situation for my tastes. I prefer to play cards that are made really good by the deck they're in than cards that are just good period.
Things I added:
Terrain Generator and Kessig Wolf Run: Lands that do things are cool.
Seer's Sundial: Because I finally found my copy in the scraps from an old deck. Mana Flare + Seer's Sundial is almost as satisfying as Well of Lost Dreams + Pristine Talisman
Search For Tomorrow: A way to get the turn 3 Mina and Denn, but also a ramp spell that puts the land into play untapped, so it can be made mana neutral or mana positive to cast it for its actual cost late in the game.
Genesis Wave: It's a mana sink that usually makes more mana than I spent to cast it, which is pretty good. Also it probably wins the game by the time you've finished chaining it into lands and eternal witness and omnath and akroma's memorial.
Chandra, Flamecaller: The plus can close out games pretty quick after a Decree of Annihilation, the -X is solid board control if people get too feisty (and my creatures have plenty of toughness floating around), and the 0 draws cards/can be fed by Mina and Denn bouncing lands/can feed into Life From the Loam and Creeping Renaissance nonsense. And I find something satisfying about have two Chandras and two Garruks.
Splendid Reclamation: We put lands in the graveyard on purpose. It's a natural fit. The instinctual thing here is to get to 10 mana, Jokulhaups and the Reclamation all the lands back, but I've pretty much been slamming it with Borborygmos or Overlaid Terrain thus far. Turn 4 Mina and Denn into turn 5 Overlaid Terrain, land, land, Splendid Reclamation is pretty sweet.
To speak of the direction the deck has moved, it really just keeps heading toward the "cog in the machine" approach. On occasion, the deck still wins by just destroying all lands while having the only board, and the threat of that forcing people to play differently opens up the opportunities to go crazy, but my favorite part of playing this is in doing things like elaborate Worldgorger Dragon chains or playing ramp that makes more mana than I started with. Even Kessig Wolf Run seems to mostly get used for feeding Momentous Fall. And other than not owning Crucible of Worlds, I still feel like I want a second 1 drop and a second 4 drop to flash out the Birthing Pod curve (possible picks: Sylvan Safekeeper and Nantuko Cultivator or Stone-seeder Hierophant). I also might want to get Nature's Will back in here When I play this deck anymore, my opponents see the dedicated land destruction deck that's build to play through that, where I basically see the land destruction as a piece of the almighty pile of land synergies, just with really good fringe benefits.