Hi everyone, I'd appreciate your help refining my first EDH decks. I'm just getting into the format.
I won't be playing against ridiculously competitive combo decks. I'll mostly be playing against other mono-colour tribal decks:
Darien: link
Ezuri: link
Ghisa: link
Thada Adel: link
Karn: link
I am not up to date on the new cards. So if great cards came out since 2014, thanks for letting me know about them.
The Krenko Primer is your best bet here. I have a more budget-friendly version here. Trust me, running Krenko smaller is much better.
If you're playing Krenko, speed is what's important. Don't play anything above CMC 4 or 5 unless it's going to win you the game.
I also highly recommend you uncut Thornbite Staff. With the number of goblin tokens and sac outlets you'll have in play, it will win you games.
You also, in general, don't need mana fixing in this deck outside of Mana Echoes, Ashnod's Altar and Phrexian Altar. Almost all of your existing mana fixing can go.
It's also a bad idea to get attached to any particular goblin. And Door of Destinies tends to not be as rewarding as Coat of Arms.
Key strategy advice for Krenko to keep in mind: You want things that allow you to get a lot of Goblins onto the battlefield quickly, make your creatures hasty, and just enough removal to deal with things like Torpor Orb. You want plenty of outlets to sac your creatures and otherwise use them as resources.
@ krichaiushii Thanks, I added your recommendations.
@ Groovelord You're right, so I maybeboarded that card for future scenarios.
@ Jay13x Sweet. I'll go through that Primer. Put the staff back in & will trim the mana cards & high cmc cards.
I'm not using Coat of Arms because I'm often playing against tribal decks. Thanks for the tips.
Got the deck down to 100 cards. Let me know what you think.
@ Jay13x Sweet. I'll go through that Primer. Put the staff back in & will trim the mana cards & high cmc cards.
I'm not using Coat of Arms because I'm often playing against tribal decks. Thanks for the tips.
Think about it like this: door of destinies doesn't really help very much with Krenko, especially when you're only running about 15 creatures that can trigger it.
Coat of Arms has an exponential growth curve with Krenko.
Here's the scenario on turn 5 when you'd want to cast it. Let's say you got Krenko on Turn 4 and have one other goblin on the field, with no haste enablers. With Coat of Arms, Krenko and the random goblin get +1/+1. Turn 5: You tap Krenko for two goblins. All of a sudden, you've got four goblins that have +3/+3. Turn 6 rolls around and you tap Krenko again. You've now got eight goblins each with +7/+7 and you've won the game. Turn 7: sixteen goblins with +15/+15 each and it's just overkill.
If you're playing Door of Destinies, by turn six you can't get the same effect without casting seven goblins. Rarely will you regret a coat of arms play in Krenko, and outside of Darien is doesn't look like you're playing anything with much in the way of wrath effects, which are Krenko's biggest weakness. Coat of Arm's larger bonus also keeping you from getting wrathed by something like Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite.
Besides, you can't be that worried about 'double-edged sword' cards if you're running Furnace of Rath.
Got the deck down to 100 cards. Let me know what you think.
Crawlspace is unnecessary. You're literally playing the deck that would require a crawlspace to defend against. You will always have the upper hand when it comes to creatures.
Insurrection isn't going to be as good for you as Relentless Assault or World at War. Remember, you're not worried about your opponent's creatures because you'll generally always be able to overrun them.
Otherwise, it's looking good! I recommend you play a lot of Solitaire games and see how speedy the deck is, and see what non-creature cards you can cut for more creatures. You need to make sure you always have a goblin buddy for Krenko, because his combos really benefit from it.
Edit: Comet Storm, Burn at the Stake and Shared Animosity are win-cons for this deck. I recommend you find room for them again. Shared Animosity is a coat of arms for attacking and grows in power just as quickly. Comet Storm is just a solid burn spell you can fuel with one of Krenko's combos. Burn at the Stake is like a more powerful Voracious Dragon, but you don't lose your creatures. Think of Burned at the Stake like this: if you don't have haste, you can fuel it with the tokens you make from Krenko one turn. Or it's a win-con with one of Krenko's combos, or at the very least you can do serious damage. Krenko's growth curve means this can flat out kill an opponent pretty early in the game. Plus, in general, no one expects a Krenko deck to win by burn spells.
Tears of Rage has always been one of my favorite red token swarm buffs. It works really well with a commander who puts out numbers of this magnitude and its super cheap to pick up a copy.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
No mention of Goblin Rabblemaster? Why, he's a staple of Goblin swarm decks! The forced attack is a bit of a downside, but as long as he and Krenko hold back, you should always have at least two Goblins to swing per turn. If you don't plan on pumping your Goblins up too much, Raid Bombardment can pile on the damage alongside Impact Tremors.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
No mention of Goblin Rabblemaster? Why, he's a staple of Goblin swarm decks! The forced attack is a bit of a downside, but as long as he and Krenko hold back, you should always have at least two Goblins to swing per turn. If you don't plan on pumping your Goblins up too much, Raid Bombardment can pile on the damage alongside Impact Tremors.
In a 60-card deck format, I'd be all over Rabblemaster, but in Commander I generally don't want to be throwing my tokens at the enemy every turn (especially in a multiplayer game), much less key cards like Skirk Prospector.
True enough. Switched Coat of Arms & Door of Destinies.
Crawlspace was to hold back Darien & Ghisa's token swarms while I sac'ed my goblins to do damage, but you're right, I should have more than enough tokens and get them faster than anyone else. Likewise Insurrection was to cut through the crowd of tokens they might have. I'll just put them in the maybeboard in case I ever find them necessary.
Hey guys, I was wondering if the Krenko Primer referred by you, Jay13x, is still available somewhere. Hopefully it's just a problem for me, since it is telling me that I don't have have access to "perform that action".
It was retired. You can check out my Krenko deck (in my signature), I'm working on turning it into a primer.
I won't be playing against ridiculously competitive combo decks. I'll mostly be playing against other mono-colour tribal decks:
Darien: link
Ezuri: link
Ghisa: link
Thada Adel: link
Karn: link
I am not up to date on the new cards. So if great cards came out since 2014, thanks for letting me know about them.
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
CREATURES:
1 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Goblin Chieftain
1 Goblin Chirurgeon
1 Goblin Matron
1 Goblin Piledriver
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Goblin Warchief
1 Goblin Welder
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Lightning Crafter
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
1 Sensation Gorger
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Skirk Prospector
INSTANT
1 Comet Storm
1 Fork
1 Reiterate
1 Reverberate
ARTIFACT
1 Coat of Arms
1 Darksteel Plate
1 Thousand-Year Elixir
1 Eldrazi Monument
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Staff of Domination
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Sword of the Paruns
1 Thornbite Staff
1 Umbral Mantle
1 Burn at the Stake
1 Goblin War Strike
1 Past in Flames
1 World at War
ENCHANTMENT
1 Blood Moon
1 Boggart Shenanigans
1 Fervor
1 Furnace of Rath
1 Goblin Bombardment
1 Impact Tremors
1 Outpost Siege
1 Shared Animosity
MANA FIXING
1 Ashnod's Altar
1 Battle Hymn
1 Brightstone Ritual
1 Extraplanar Lens
1 Gauntlet of Might
1 Mana Echoes
1 Mind Stone
1 ruby medallion
1 Sol Ring
CARD ADVANTAGE
1 Bottled Cloister
1 Memory Jar
1 mind's eye
1 Reforge The Soul
1 Scroll Rack
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Skullclamp
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Gamble
1 Goblin Recruiter
1 Imperial Recruiter
1 Moggcatcher
REMOVAL
1 Chaos Warp
1 Shattering Spree
1 Vandalblast
LANDS (35)
1 Buried Ruin
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Rishadan Port
1 Strip Mine
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Wasteland
26 mountains
Culled cards:
CREATURES
1 Adaptive Automaton
1 Arms Dealer
1 Bloodmark Mentor
1 Goblin Battle Jester
1 Goblin Wardriver
1 Hellrider
1 Ib Halfheart, Goblin Tactician
1 Legion Loyalist
1 Splinter Twin
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Voracious Dragon
1 Zealous Conscripts
ARTIFACTS
1 Akroma's Memorial
1 Crawlspace
1 Door of Destinies
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Nemesis Mask
1 Obelisk of Urd
1 Sculpting Steel
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Trading Post
1 Banefire
1 Basalt Monolith
1 Bonfire of the Damned
1 Breath of Fury
1 Faithless Looting
1 Fissure
1 Gratuitous Violence
1 Homeward Path
1 Insurrection
1 Invasion Plans
1 Jokulhaups
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Quest for the Goblin Lord
1 Relentless Assault
1 Ruination
1 Seismic Spike
1 Stranglehold
1 Tower of the Magistrate
1 Volcanic Wind
1 Volcanic Offering
1 Wake of Destruction
1 Warstorm Surge
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Chandra Ablaze
1 Balefire Dragon
1 Beetleback Chief
1 Goblin Bushwhacker
1 Goblin Fireslinger
1 Goblin King
1 Goblin Lackey
1 Goblin Ringleader
1 Goblin Ruinblaster
1 Goblin Settler
1 Goblin Vandal
1 Goblin Wizard
1 Molten Primordial
1 Ogre Battledriver
1 Predator Dragon
1 Rummaging Goblin
1 Spikeshot Elder
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Tuktuk the Explorer
1 Warren Instigator
1 Chrome Mox
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Caged Sun
1 Coalition Relic
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Journeyer's Kite
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Expedition Map
1 Fire Diamond
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Vault
1 Seething Song
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Dragon Fodder
1 Dynacharge
1 Repercussion
1 Shivan Harvest
Moggcatcher is strong. Zealous Conscripts goes infinite with Kiki-Jiki.
Repercussion is a great card, but alongside your armies may result in your own doom.
Cheers!
Krichaiushii on PucaTrade.
Obelisk of Urd might be worth trying out.
If you're playing Krenko, speed is what's important. Don't play anything above CMC 4 or 5 unless it's going to win you the game.
I also highly recommend you uncut Thornbite Staff. With the number of goblin tokens and sac outlets you'll have in play, it will win you games.
You also, in general, don't need mana fixing in this deck outside of Mana Echoes, Ashnod's Altar and Phrexian Altar. Almost all of your existing mana fixing can go.
It's also a bad idea to get attached to any particular goblin. And Door of Destinies tends to not be as rewarding as Coat of Arms.
Key strategy advice for Krenko to keep in mind: You want things that allow you to get a lot of Goblins onto the battlefield quickly, make your creatures hasty, and just enough removal to deal with things like Torpor Orb. You want plenty of outlets to sac your creatures and otherwise use them as resources.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
@ Groovelord You're right, so I maybeboarded that card for future scenarios.
@ Jay13x Sweet. I'll go through that Primer. Put the staff back in & will trim the mana cards & high cmc cards.
I'm not using Coat of Arms because I'm often playing against tribal decks. Thanks for the tips.
Got the deck down to 100 cards. Let me know what you think.
Coat of Arms has an exponential growth curve with Krenko.
Here's the scenario on turn 5 when you'd want to cast it. Let's say you got Krenko on Turn 4 and have one other goblin on the field, with no haste enablers. With Coat of Arms, Krenko and the random goblin get +1/+1. Turn 5: You tap Krenko for two goblins. All of a sudden, you've got four goblins that have +3/+3. Turn 6 rolls around and you tap Krenko again. You've now got eight goblins each with +7/+7 and you've won the game. Turn 7: sixteen goblins with +15/+15 each and it's just overkill.
If you're playing Door of Destinies, by turn six you can't get the same effect without casting seven goblins. Rarely will you regret a coat of arms play in Krenko, and outside of Darien is doesn't look like you're playing anything with much in the way of wrath effects, which are Krenko's biggest weakness. Coat of Arm's larger bonus also keeping you from getting wrathed by something like Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite.
Besides, you can't be that worried about 'double-edged sword' cards if you're running Furnace of Rath.
Crawlspace is unnecessary. You're literally playing the deck that would require a crawlspace to defend against. You will always have the upper hand when it comes to creatures.
Insurrection isn't going to be as good for you as Relentless Assault or World at War. Remember, you're not worried about your opponent's creatures because you'll generally always be able to overrun them.
Goblin Replica is a good card for this deck. It's a little mana intensive, but it's tutorable by Goblin Matron, Imperial Recruiter and Goblin Recruiter.
Otherwise, it's looking good! I recommend you play a lot of Solitaire games and see how speedy the deck is, and see what non-creature cards you can cut for more creatures. You need to make sure you always have a goblin buddy for Krenko, because his combos really benefit from it.
Edit: Comet Storm, Burn at the Stake and Shared Animosity are win-cons for this deck. I recommend you find room for them again. Shared Animosity is a coat of arms for attacking and grows in power just as quickly. Comet Storm is just a solid burn spell you can fuel with one of Krenko's combos. Burn at the Stake is like a more powerful Voracious Dragon, but you don't lose your creatures. Think of Burned at the Stake like this: if you don't have haste, you can fuel it with the tokens you make from Krenko one turn. Or it's a win-con with one of Krenko's combos, or at the very least you can do serious damage. Krenko's growth curve means this can flat out kill an opponent pretty early in the game. Plus, in general, no one expects a Krenko deck to win by burn spells.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
True enough. Switched Coat of Arms & Door of Destinies.
Crawlspace was to hold back Darien & Ghisa's token swarms while I sac'ed my goblins to do damage, but you're right, I should have more than enough tokens and get them faster than anyone else. Likewise Insurrection was to cut through the crowd of tokens they might have. I'll just put them in the maybeboard in case I ever find them necessary.
Took out
Door of Destinies
Crawlspace
Insurrection
Voracious Dragon
Reforge the Soul (seems like it might often work in favour of opponents)
Put in
Coat of Arms
Burn at the Stake
World at War
Comet Storm
Shared Animosity
If I notice that a certain card is underwhelming, I'll put in Relentless Assault.
Thanks a lot for the insights.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath