I'm still trying to build an aggressive, competitive Exava, the Blood Witch deck and I need all the help I can get! I added a few questionable creatures but I'm fully aware that they they are most likely going to backfire. Still, I'm awfully tempted by the cheap FAT beats they offer. I'm talking about cards like Treacherous Pit-Dweller which is risky but is the risk worth the reward considering my sac outlets? Avatar of Discord is probably the worst of the bunch but it's a cheap, evasive beater that puts my opponent on the clock. Speaking of clocks, Master of the Feast is probably counter-intuitive with the discard effects I run, but again, does it matter when it comes with such a huge, cheap flying body?
My problem with Exava is that Lyzolda is generally better. Many will argue Grenzo is the best. Tymaret functions similar to Lyzolda, & Alesha can be r/b with options to splash W.
Also, I like Exava because other than Alesha, she can actually get into the redzone... but she's bigger. Tymaret and Lyzolda, not so much.
Sure they can. Esp because they cost less mana (less time to set up) but also because they do other stuff to increase your reach (and in Lyz' case, generate CA). Alesha does too.
Thanks, I appreciate your input. I'm definitely listening and you're probably right but I can't help but think that Exava is worth testing. Tymaret and Lyzolda have reach but can be mana intensive for an aggro build like mine. In terms of actual combat, a 2/2 and a 3/1 might get in once or twice against slower mid-rangy decks but they will die to most if not all blockers. I do think they are both better in mid-range builds though and I do play both Tymaret and Lyzolda in the 99, and while I could see myself using either one as a general I feel like Exava does a better job at pressuring my opponent in the red zone. She just feels like a good body to curve into after an aggressive start and a 4/4 first striker is going claim it's fair share of victims without requiring me to invest additional mana or bodies. Having said that, I could always move her to the 99 and move Lyzolda, most likely, into the general role.
What do you think of the high-risk creatures such as Treacherous Pit-Dweller, Master of the Feast, and Avatar of Discord? They could very well end up costing me the game and this will definitely turn off most players and rightfully so, but I imagine that a 5/x flyer on turn 3 followed by a 4/4 first strike haster will require an immediate answer. Against an aggro deck, they are huge and will end up winning in combat. Against control, they come down VERY early and can deal massive amounts of damage if left uncountered. Of course, their drawbacks can be crippling if I don't have a sacrifice outlet for Treacherous Pit-Dweller or if Avatar of Discord eats removal before hitting my opponent. The latter seems like the weakest of the bunch but it's sheer size and evasion beats almost (if not all?) other 3cc creatures. I looked at some other aggro duel decks and I don't think any other color combination offers such huge beats at such a low cost. Naturally, they're going to come at a price. But is too high?
I don't like them because you're giving up too much.
As to the stats. Well I play Bellstriker Sligh so you can say I know a thing or two about attacking with 2/2s for two. The key is, if you're attacking, sometimes it's okay for them to trade. Consider.
I play a Goblin Guide on t1. He gets in for 2, 4, maybe a third attack at 6 damage, and then trades with an opponent's guy. Look at the mileage I got - six damage and a trade, in relation to the cost. In this example the cost was R so that's really efficient.
A lot of my creatures are very similar, so I don't worry about the removal so much, but the principle is relevant here too.
This is very helpful, thank you! Should I consider any five drops, for example, Demigod of Revenge? or should I curve out at 4 mana and never look back?
This is very helpful, thank you! Should I consider any five drops, for example, Demigod of Revenge? or should I curve out at 4 mana and never look back?
You'll be hard pressed to find a better curve topper for this archetype than Hellrider, so...
Just grabbed me a copy of Hellrider! What do you think of Pain Seer and Grim Haruspex in here? I can't quite afford Confident unfortunately. I'm also considering Ashenmoor Liege.
Just grabbed me a copy of Hellrider! What do you think of Pain Seer and Grim Haruspex in here? I can't quite afford Confident unfortunately. I'm also considering Ashenmoor Liege.
Though Pain Seer looks quite similar to Confidant, he's actually waaaaaayyyyyyy worse (you won't get the extra card until t4, assuming you have a good attack on t3)/ Haruspex is a card I'd wind in some kind of a grindy STAX shell - he's not the card you play for "random value" (he's quite bad at that, tbh).
Ashenmoor Liege...boy that takes me back. That was the homie when I played Lyzolda way back. Nowadays? Man, there's some stiff competition at the four drop, and this guy doesn't have haste nor is he particularly adept at combat.
Congrats on your Hellrider! That guy will serve you quite well for (what I'd assume) is years to come - I highly doubt R&D ever makes a better aggro creature than him.
I'm pretty much switching to Lyzolda after all. I do like the aggro disruption/discard route though so bear that in mind
I looked at the older thread and found lots of useful information. I still have some questions though since the other thread hasn't been updated in awhile. I will update my OP soon and will most likely lay it out according to casting cost. In the meantime, here's what I'm running at the top of the curve:
4cc
1x Blazing Specter: Pet-card but flying, haste, discard is something I want to be doing anyway.
1x Flametongue Kavu: You're right, should have been here anyway.
1x Murderous Redcap: I omitted him under Exava because there's just better 4-drops out there, for instance, Kavu, which I would have played before this guy. But in Lyzolda, I admit Redcap is sick. In it goes.
1x Ashenmoor Liege: I'm torn here but I'm definitely all ears when it comes to possible replacements.
1x Hellrider: Yeaaaah.
Others I'm seriously considering: Braids, Cabal Minion, Falkenrath Aristocrat and Desecration Demon. I also see Hero of Oxid Ridge being played a lot but I don't think he's all that when we have access to Falkenrath Aristocrat. I just don't see Hero surviving on the ground, he'll most likely be blocked and say I'm attacking with three other creatures, I'd end up doing +3 damage which is OK but Falkenrath will almost always deal 4 in the air, survive the round and has the potential to shrug off removal which will inevitably lead to more damage. Penny for your thoughts?
About Grim Haruspex: I was thinking it would be nice to have when we're about to eat a board wipe.
I think you misanalyze Oxid Ridge. Not only does he boast of four power with haste as well as partially lording your team, but he also provides evasion. Tokens, mana dorks, Doran - these guys can't block when Oxid Ridge swings. He's way more legit than Aristocrat, that generally is a four power beater in the air (Lyz is a better sac outlet anyway). Desecration Demon is actively giving your opponent a free sac outlet a turn. Do you really want that?
Putting Braids in this deck will give your deck an identity crisis. Are you aggro or STAX? Braids is counter-productive to an aggro plan (this is true in my own Alesha too, but Braids works quite well to soft lock with Alesha so it gets a pass).
Glad you came around on Lyz btw. Told ya she just gives more options than Exava (though if Exava had those stats for just three mana or only two) hmm...well it'd be a closer comparison.
Good call on Braids. Regarding Hero, I'm worried about consistency. How often will he truly grant pseudo evasion? Chances are that my opponent has dropped at least one or two creatures that are not 1/1s at this point. Woudn't Mogis Marauder be better suited in that role? He comes with a small body but he's also cheaper and provides evasion in all stages of the game provided our opponent isn't playing black. I could of course just run both. Im also struggling to find other good 4 drops that are better than Liege besides kavu, my pet specter, redcap and let's say Hero. Am I missing any key 4 drops?
Im also looking at Ruination but I'm bot too sure it fits in here without proper support. Plus I'm also playing two colors. Still I'm staring at it...
Good call on Braids. Regarding Hero, I'm worried about consistency. How often will he truly grant pseudo evasion? Chances are that my opponent has dropped at least one or two creatures that are not 1/1s at this point. Woudn't Mogis Marauder be better suited in that role? He comes with a small body but he's also cheaper and provides evasion in all stages of the game provided our opponent isn't playing black. I could of course just run both. Im also struggling to find other good 4 drops that are better than Liege besides kavu, my pet specter, redcap and let's say Hero. Am I missing any key 4 drops?
Im also looking at Ruination but I'm not too sure it fits in here without proper support. Plus I'm also playing two colors. Still I'm staring at it...
Ruination (and Moons) function just fine in 2c, so long as you know what you're doing with your land choices. Something like ABU < Shock < Fetch x7 < Cmd Twr < and I'd run Dragonskull Summit, then your Wasteland package (and you can surely justify Volrath's Stronghold, if not then replace Dragonskull with it) then basics. Always know to break B fetches for swamps, and R fetches for duals if needed, or Mountains if you're setting up a Moon/Ruin.
Wouldn't Unspeakable Symbol be great in a Exava deck like this?
As for "key" 4 drops... Graveborn Muse!? I would imagine running less 4 drops is a good thing.. in a aggro deck where is in direct competition with ur commander...
Wouldn't Unspeakable Symbol be great in a Exava deck like this?
As for "key" 4 drops... Graveborn Muse!? I would imagine running less 4 drops is a good thing.. in a aggro deck where is in direct competition with ur commander...
I know this thread has veered away from Exava but I think the core of the deck will remain aggro. I'm just picking brains and will make minor tweaks based on the general I end up using. Right now, it seems like Lyz might be best suited for the shell but red seems to have quite a few punisher cards that are cheap and aggressive. They could easily fit in here and I'm starting to grasp the concept of long time pain vs. burst damage. Mogis looks like he could fit in quite nicely since he either acts as a shock, which adds up with the aforementioned punisher cards, or he forces sacrifice which paves the way for my weenies... or is giving my opponent a choice still very bad?
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I'm still trying to build an aggressive, competitive Exava, the Blood Witch deck and I need all the help I can get! I added a few questionable creatures but I'm fully aware that they they are most likely going to backfire. Still, I'm awfully tempted by the cheap FAT beats they offer. I'm talking about cards like Treacherous Pit-Dweller which is risky but is the risk worth the reward considering my sac outlets? Avatar of Discord is probably the worst of the bunch but it's a cheap, evasive beater that puts my opponent on the clock. Speaking of clocks, Master of the Feast is probably counter-intuitive with the discard effects I run, but again, does it matter when it comes with such a huge, cheap flying body?
1x Abbot of Keral Keep
1x Ashenmoor Gouger
1x Blazing Specter
1x Blood Scrivener
1x Bloodcrazed Neonate
1x Bloodsoaked Champion
1x Braids, Cabal Minion
1x Brain Maggot
1x Carnophage
1x Abyssal Persecutor
1x Viscera Seer
1x Master of the Feast
1x Diregraf Ghoul
1x Falkenrath Aristocrat
1x Mogis's Marauder
1x Fleshbag Marauder
1x Gnarled Scarhide
1x Gore-House Chainwalker
1x Hellhole Flailer
1x Hellspark Elemental
1x Herald of Torment
1x Rakdos Shred-Freak
1x Hypnotic Specter
1x Keldon Marauders
1x Knight of Infamy
1x Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
1x Manic Vandal
1x Master of Cruelties
1x Mesmeric Fiend
1x Rakdos Cackler
1x Treacherous Pit-Dweller
1x Torch Fiend
1x Spark Elemental
1x Tymaret, the Murder King
1x Vampire Lacerator
1x Carrion Feeder
1x Avatar of Discord
1x Blackcleave Cliffs
1x Blood Crypt
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Command Tower
1x Dragonskull Summit
1x Graven Cairns
1x Lavaclaw Reaches
8x Mountain
1x Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
15x Swamp
1x Tainted Peak
1x Sulfurous Spring
1x Temple of Malice
Instant (10)
1x Go for the Throat
1x Char
1x Dismember
1x Incinerate
1x Lightning Bolt
1x Lightning Strike
1x Rakdos Charm
1x Searing Spear
1x Terminate
1x Victim of Night
Sorcery (10)
1x Ashes to Ashes
1x Blightning
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Dreadbore
1x Duress
1x Exquisite Firecraft
1x Night's Whisper
1x Hymn to Tourach
1x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Thoughtseize
1x Mind Slash
1x Phyrexian Arena
Artifact (4)
1x Bonesplitter
1x Inquisitor's Flail
1x Skullclamp
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
Then if you want Control, Olivia Voldaren exists.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Also, I like Exava because other than Alesha, she can actually get into the redzone... but she's bigger. Tymaret and Lyzolda, not so much.
Sure they can. Esp because they cost less mana (less time to set up) but also because they do other stuff to increase your reach (and in Lyz' case, generate CA). Alesha does too.
Murderous Redcap and Flametongue Kavu are sad to be left out. You're missing Dark Confidant.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
What do you think of the high-risk creatures such as Treacherous Pit-Dweller, Master of the Feast, and Avatar of Discord? They could very well end up costing me the game and this will definitely turn off most players and rightfully so, but I imagine that a 5/x flyer on turn 3 followed by a 4/4 first strike haster will require an immediate answer. Against an aggro deck, they are huge and will end up winning in combat. Against control, they come down VERY early and can deal massive amounts of damage if left uncountered. Of course, their drawbacks can be crippling if I don't have a sacrifice outlet for Treacherous Pit-Dweller or if Avatar of Discord eats removal before hitting my opponent. The latter seems like the weakest of the bunch but it's sheer size and evasion beats almost (if not all?) other 3cc creatures. I looked at some other aggro duel decks and I don't think any other color combination offers such huge beats at such a low cost. Naturally, they're going to come at a price. But is too high?
As to the stats. Well I play Bellstriker Sligh so you can say I know a thing or two about attacking with 2/2s for two. The key is, if you're attacking, sometimes it's okay for them to trade. Consider.
I play a Goblin Guide on t1. He gets in for 2, 4, maybe a third attack at 6 damage, and then trades with an opponent's guy. Look at the mileage I got - six damage and a trade, in relation to the cost. In this example the cost was R so that's really efficient.
A lot of my creatures are very similar, so I don't worry about the removal so much, but the principle is relevant here too.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
You'll be hard pressed to find a better curve topper for this archetype than Hellrider, so...
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Though Pain Seer looks quite similar to Confidant, he's actually waaaaaayyyyyyy worse (you won't get the extra card until t4, assuming you have a good attack on t3)/ Haruspex is a card I'd wind in some kind of a grindy STAX shell - he's not the card you play for "random value" (he's quite bad at that, tbh).
Ashenmoor Liege...boy that takes me back. That was the homie when I played Lyzolda way back. Nowadays? Man, there's some stiff competition at the four drop, and this guy doesn't have haste nor is he particularly adept at combat.
Congrats on your Hellrider! That guy will serve you quite well for (what I'd assume) is years to come - I highly doubt R&D ever makes a better aggro creature than him.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I looked at the older thread and found lots of useful information. I still have some questions though since the other thread hasn't been updated in awhile. I will update my OP soon and will most likely lay it out according to casting cost. In the meantime, here's what I'm running at the top of the curve:
4cc
1x Blazing Specter: Pet-card but flying, haste, discard is something I want to be doing anyway.
1x Flametongue Kavu: You're right, should have been here anyway.
1x Murderous Redcap: I omitted him under Exava because there's just better 4-drops out there, for instance, Kavu, which I would have played before this guy. But in Lyzolda, I admit Redcap is sick. In it goes.
1x Ashenmoor Liege: I'm torn here but I'm definitely all ears when it comes to possible replacements.
1x Hellrider: Yeaaaah.
Others I'm seriously considering: Braids, Cabal Minion, Falkenrath Aristocrat and Desecration Demon. I also see Hero of Oxid Ridge being played a lot but I don't think he's all that when we have access to Falkenrath Aristocrat. I just don't see Hero surviving on the ground, he'll most likely be blocked and say I'm attacking with three other creatures, I'd end up doing +3 damage which is OK but Falkenrath will almost always deal 4 in the air, survive the round and has the potential to shrug off removal which will inevitably lead to more damage. Penny for your thoughts?
About Grim Haruspex: I was thinking it would be nice to have when we're about to eat a board wipe.
Putting Braids in this deck will give your deck an identity crisis. Are you aggro or STAX? Braids is counter-productive to an aggro plan (this is true in my own Alesha too, but Braids works quite well to soft lock with Alesha so it gets a pass).
Glad you came around on Lyz btw. Told ya she just gives more options than Exava (though if Exava had those stats for just three mana or only two) hmm...well it'd be a closer comparison.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Im also looking at Ruination but I'm bot too sure it fits in here without proper support. Plus I'm also playing two colors. Still I'm staring at it...
Ruination (and Moons) function just fine in 2c, so long as you know what you're doing with your land choices. Something like ABU < Shock < Fetch x7 < Cmd Twr < and I'd run Dragonskull Summit, then your Wasteland package (and you can surely justify Volrath's Stronghold, if not then replace Dragonskull with it) then basics. Always know to break B fetches for swamps, and R fetches for duals if needed, or Mountains if you're setting up a Moon/Ruin.
As far as four drops, I liked Avalanche Riders a lot there. But Rakka Mar provides more shocks with your commander. Thunderbreak Regent is pretty hard to argue against and Keldon Champion is pretty saucy. Lava Hounds are some pretty savage beats.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
As for "key" 4 drops... Graveborn Muse!? I would imagine running less 4 drops is a good thing.. in a aggro deck where is in direct competition with ur commander...
Especially this, yes.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I know this thread has veered away from Exava but I think the core of the deck will remain aggro. I'm just picking brains and will make minor tweaks based on the general I end up using. Right now, it seems like Lyz might be best suited for the shell but red seems to have quite a few punisher cards that are cheap and aggressive. They could easily fit in here and I'm starting to grasp the concept of long time pain vs. burst damage. Mogis looks like he could fit in quite nicely since he either acts as a shock, which adds up with the aforementioned punisher cards, or he forces sacrifice which paves the way for my weenies... or is giving my opponent a choice still very bad?