This is my attempt at making mono-white aggro-disruption work in multiplayer EDH. The deck is basically an extension of Thalia, Guardian of Thraben herself, centered around aggressively-costed creatures that apply either pressure or disruption - or ideally both - to opponents. Theoretically, this deck will keep opponents on their back foot from turn 1 on. It's intended to be threat dense so that opponents can't keep up simply by throwing removal at it. Even so, it can't truly be called a "weenie" deck, as it's intended to curve out with higher-power creatures so as not to fall behind after the initial stages of the game. I'd appreciate input on what cards could stand to be cut and what would make for good additions in their place.
There's actually a thread for a Thalia Guardian of Thraben deck, it just hasn't been active for a little while. You have a pretty good list, and I agree with most of your deck. What I think you really want to focus on is the disruption and value you get from your creatures that have ETB effects or taxing effects. So in regards to your maybe-board, I'd try and slot in Fiend Hunter, War Priest of Thune, and Leonin Relic Warder. I'd also try and make space for Flickerwisp which is an amazing card. Spear of Heliod is awesome as well..the more value you can get from a card, the better. Crovax, Ascendant Hero is also good for value. I'd throw in an Iona, Shield of Emeria just as a late game middle finger to your opponent.
There's actually a thread for a Thalia Guardian of Thraben deck, it just hasn't been active for a little while. You have a pretty good list, and I agree with most of your deck. What I think you really want to focus on is the disruption and value you get from your creatures that have ETB effects or taxing effects. So in regards to your maybe-board, I'd try and slot in Fiend Hunter, War Priest of Thune, and Leonin Relic Warder. I'd also try and make space for Flickerwisp which is an amazing card. Spear of Heliod is awesome as well..the more value you can get from a card, the better. Crovax, Ascendant Hero is also good for value. I'd throw in an Iona, Shield of Emeria just as a late game middle finger to your opponent.
Thanks for your thoughts
Re: Leonin Relic-Warder, War Priest of Thune, and Fiend Hunter, I originally left the Relic-Warder and Fiend Hunter off the list just because I'm used to using them in Saffi Eriksdotter, where there are enough sac outlets in the deck that they can always be sac'd to permanently exile something and then recurred later on to do it again. They won't be able to generate that kind of value here, but perhaps the tempo is good enough on its own. I'll definitely try to find a slot for Flickerwisp, though, to reuse existing ETB effects.
Re: Spear of Heliod and Crovax, Ascendant Hero, Spear has always been on the verge of making it's way in, but mostly just for the pump. The second ability is a little more defensive than I'd like to be, and it's not all too often that I'm sitting around with unused mana during opponents' turns. Crovax falls into the category of pump spells that also benefit opponents (although me more than opponents), like Crusade, which I've tried to avoid thus far. But perhaps they're worth it.
Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker is definitely a little more on the defensive side than I'd like to be, at least at first glance. This deck is kind of like "suicide white," in that I'm just trying to out-aggro opponents with little to no regard for my own life total. So, I don't really care about deterring people from attacking me. But perhaps the forced destruction would be good for tempo.
I've always found Loxodon Gatekeeper-type effects (Blind Obedience, Kismet) to be a little lower-impact in real life than they would seem to be on paper. They're best, obviously, with Winter Orb or Hokori, Dust Drinker in play. But again, perhaps the tempo play is good enough.
My main concern of a Thalia deck in multiplayer is that white doesn't really have access to good card advantage spells (except for Mind's Eye, Skullclamp and Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, maybe), and after a good board wipe usually does not that much. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben doesn't produce much advantage on its own, and if you don't succeed in very early good disruption of your enemies, you'll be just overwhelmed by green and blue, being unable to introduce any threats to your opponents while not having any answers to opponents' threats.
How does this deck work for you?
Aura of Silence has been in from the deck's very start, as one of the only non-creature-based tax effects I was willing to consider (the other being Thorn of Amethyst, which I'm actually less convinced of). Perhaps I should give Luminarch Ascension a try here. I've always considered it a little more "pillow-forty" of a card than really shines in this deck. Similarly, Entreat the Angels kind of runs cross-grain to the deck, as it gets hit by 3 taxing effects. But perhaps it's raw power and ability to dig you out of a hole late-game makes it worth considering nonetheless.
You're certainly right about card advantage in mono-white. Thus far, I've chosen to skew the deck more towards aggro than to disruption or control, though maybe time will tell that I should slide the other way on the spectrum. Currently, card quality/advantage in the deck includes:
Basically, I tried to get the most mana-efficient options that also slide in under Thalia's tax (thus, creatures). Kozilek, Butcher of Truth is an interesting option, as he serves both as a win con and a huge source of late-game card advantage. It can also be nice to have an Eldrazi to shuffle the graveyard back in, in certain situations. I went with Akroma, Angel of Wrath originally because she attacks and blocks SO efficiently and is so resistant to removal. Basically, she's the ultimate white beater to close out games in a deck like this. For the same mana as Kozilek, she can drop in, pick up a sword, and smack someone in the face for 8 plus whatever the effect of the sword is. But, it's definitely a swap worth trying out.
The last time I played Thalia (in Duel-Commander) is archived here: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/09-06-15-white-weenie/ (I haven't updated on MTGS because I do not think the deck is strong enough for the meta's developments to regularly place in competitive events). This is because your Animar match-up is unwinnable, and with Marath's introduction, he is also an extremely unfavourable match.
FWIW, that list is updated through DTK. Hope it helps you.
EDIT: Oops. Did not realize this was the multiplayer forum.
The last time I played Thalia (in Duel-Commander) is archived here: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/09-06-15-white-weenie/ (I haven't updated on MTGS because I do not think the deck is strong enough for the meta's developments to regularly place in competitive events). This is because your Animar match-up is unwinnable, and with Marath's introduction, he is also an extremely unfavourable match.
FWIW, that list is updated through DTK. Hope it helps you.
EDIT: Oops. Did not realize this was the multiplayer forum.
No probs. Thanks for dropping in, man I actually remember reading about your matches vs. I think it was your brother playing Thalia vs. your Kaalia deck. But that was probably several years ago now. Anywho, the upshot of it, as I recall, was that Thalia had a really hard time exerting enough pressure without overextending. That problem is only exacerbated in multiplayer, and I've been considering adding Twilight Shepherd or a Faith's Reward to help with that. But I'm not sure that's really the direction to go.
The last time I played Thalia (in Duel-Commander) is archived here: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/09-06-15-white-weenie/ (I haven't updated on MTGS because I do not think the deck is strong enough for the meta's developments to regularly place in competitive events). This is because your Animar match-up is unwinnable, and with Marath's introduction, he is also an extremely unfavourable match.
FWIW, that list is updated through DTK. Hope it helps you.
EDIT: Oops. Did not realize this was the multiplayer forum.
No probs. Thanks for dropping in, man I actually remember reading about your matches vs. I think it was your brother playing Thalia vs. your Kaalia deck. But that was probably several years ago now. Anywho, the upshot of it, as I recall, was that Thalia had a really hard time exerting enough pressure without overextending. That problem is only exacerbated in multiplayer, and I've been considering adding Twilight Shepherd or a Faith's Reward to help with that. But I'm not sure that's really the direction to go.
Yup. That problem is an even greater magnitude in multiplayer, and I wouldn't suspect Thalia being a thing here at all (hence why I was surprised to learn this was multiplayer).
In multi, I reckon Brimaz, King of Oreskos would be worth more as commander than Thalia ever would.
This is my attempt at making mono-white aggro-disruption work in multiplayer EDH. The deck is basically an extension of Thalia, Guardian of Thraben herself, centered around aggressively-costed creatures that apply either pressure or disruption - or ideally both - to opponents. Theoretically, this deck will keep opponents on their back foot from turn 1 on. It's intended to be threat dense so that opponents can't keep up simply by throwing removal at it. Even so, it can't truly be called a "weenie" deck, as it's intended to curve out with higher-power creatures so as not to fall behind after the initial stages of the game. I'd appreciate input on what cards could stand to be cut and what would make for good additions in their place.
Thanks!
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
//Creature (39)
1 Mother of Runes
1 Soldier of the Pantheon
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Containment Priest
1 Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Grand Abolisher
1 Knight of the White Orchid
1 Leonin Arbiter
1 Precinct Captain
1 Serra Avenger
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1 Glowrider
1 Mentor of the Meek
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Mirror Entity
1 Silverblade Paladin
1 Angel of Jubilation
1 Celestial Crusader
1 Emeria Angel
1 Hero of Bladehold
1 Hokori, Dust Drinker
1 Kor Cartographer
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Ranger of Eos
1 Restoration Angel
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Karmic Guide
1 Reveillark
1 Stonehewer Giant
1 Captain of the Watch
1 Sun Titan
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Avacyn, Angel of Hope
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Swords to Plowshares
//Sorcery (2)
1 Armageddon
1 Ravages of War
//Artifact (13)
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Skullclamp
1 Sol Ring
1 Mask of Memory
1 Scroll Rack
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Winter Orb
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Tangle Wire
//Enchantment (4)
1 Land Tax
1 Honor of the Pure
1 Aura of Silence
1 Glorious Anthem
//Planeswalker (1)
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
//Land (37)
1 Arid Mesa
1 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Flooded Strand
1 High Market
1 Marsh Flats
28 Plains
1 Strip Mine
1 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
1 Soltari Foot Soldier
1 Accorder Paladin
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
1 Soltari Monk
1 Soltari Priest
1 War Priest of Thune
1 Field Marshall
1 Fiend Hunter
1 Flickerwisp
1 Knight Exemplar
1 Loyal Retainers
1 Soltari Champion
1 Soltari Visionary
1 Kongming, Sleeping Dragon
1 Loxodon Gatekeeper
1 Archangel of Thune
1 Spelltithe Enforcer
1 Crovax, Ascendant Hero
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Path to Exile
1 Unexpectedly Absent
1 Return to Dust
//Sorcery
1 Steelshaper's Gift
1 Catastrophe
//Artifact
1 Aether Vial
1 Spear of Heliod
//Enchantment
1 Crusade
1 Intangible Virtue
1 Divine Sacrament
1 Leyline of the Meek
1 Light from Within
1 Cathar's Crusade
1 Ajani Goldmane
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
Cheers!
Krichaiushii on PucaTrade.
Thanks for your thoughts
Re: Leonin Relic-Warder, War Priest of Thune, and Fiend Hunter, I originally left the Relic-Warder and Fiend Hunter off the list just because I'm used to using them in Saffi Eriksdotter, where there are enough sac outlets in the deck that they can always be sac'd to permanently exile something and then recurred later on to do it again. They won't be able to generate that kind of value here, but perhaps the tempo is good enough on its own. I'll definitely try to find a slot for Flickerwisp, though, to reuse existing ETB effects.
Re: Spear of Heliod and Crovax, Ascendant Hero, Spear has always been on the verge of making it's way in, but mostly just for the pump. The second ability is a little more defensive than I'd like to be, and it's not all too often that I'm sitting around with unused mana during opponents' turns. Crovax falls into the category of pump spells that also benefit opponents (although me more than opponents), like Crusade, which I've tried to avoid thus far. But perhaps they're worth it.
Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker is definitely a little more on the defensive side than I'd like to be, at least at first glance. This deck is kind of like "suicide white," in that I'm just trying to out-aggro opponents with little to no regard for my own life total. So, I don't really care about deterring people from attacking me. But perhaps the forced destruction would be good for tempo.
I've always found Loxodon Gatekeeper-type effects (Blind Obedience, Kismet) to be a little lower-impact in real life than they would seem to be on paper. They're best, obviously, with Winter Orb or Hokori, Dust Drinker in play. But again, perhaps the tempo play is good enough.
Aura of Silence has been in from the deck's very start, as one of the only non-creature-based tax effects I was willing to consider (the other being Thorn of Amethyst, which I'm actually less convinced of). Perhaps I should give Luminarch Ascension a try here. I've always considered it a little more "pillow-forty" of a card than really shines in this deck. Similarly, Entreat the Angels kind of runs cross-grain to the deck, as it gets hit by 3 taxing effects. But perhaps it's raw power and ability to dig you out of a hole late-game makes it worth considering nonetheless.
You're certainly right about card advantage in mono-white. Thus far, I've chosen to skew the deck more towards aggro than to disruption or control, though maybe time will tell that I should slide the other way on the spectrum. Currently, card quality/advantage in the deck includes:
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Knight of the White Orchid
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Mentor of the Meek
1 Kor Cartographer
1 Ranger of Eos
1 Karmic Guide
1 Reveillark
1 Stonehewer Giant
1 Sun Titan
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Skullclamp
1 Mask of Memory
1 Scroll Rack
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Land Tax
Basically, I tried to get the most mana-efficient options that also slide in under Thalia's tax (thus, creatures). Kozilek, Butcher of Truth is an interesting option, as he serves both as a win con and a huge source of late-game card advantage. It can also be nice to have an Eldrazi to shuffle the graveyard back in, in certain situations. I went with Akroma, Angel of Wrath originally because she attacks and blocks SO efficiently and is so resistant to removal. Basically, she's the ultimate white beater to close out games in a deck like this. For the same mana as Kozilek, she can drop in, pick up a sword, and smack someone in the face for 8 plus whatever the effect of the sword is. But, it's definitely a swap worth trying out.
Thanks, all. Good food for thought
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
FWIW, that list is updated through DTK. Hope it helps you.
EDIT: Oops. Did not realize this was the multiplayer forum.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
No probs. Thanks for dropping in, man
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
Yup. That problem is an even greater magnitude in multiplayer, and I wouldn't suspect Thalia being a thing here at all (hence why I was surprised to learn this was multiplayer).
In multi, I reckon Brimaz, King of Oreskos would be worth more as commander than Thalia ever would.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.