I've been talking to a number of people on this forum about finding a good fit for my Prossh deck since I acquired him. He is my only commander and I don't have a large pool of cards to choose from. So
purchasing a few singles here and there has been my only option. From viewing the finely tuned Prossh lists it is clear that if you want to be competitive with Prossh you will have to fork out dough.
He has amazing synergy with cards like Food Chain and Craterhoof Behemoth. It is a shame that they can be pricey to pick up. In addition to this they often require support cards to make them
more consistant or have greater effect. These cards can also be very pricey. To this end I started crafting my list to utilize Prosshes inherent token making to my advantage and bypass a few of these options.
What this leaves me is a list that is much slower and doesn't hit as hard as other lists, but is still very strong and difficult to deal with if left to its devices.
I have left some cards out of this list that I am currently running, because they are a bit expensive and don't add to much extra value. I was fortunate to have some of these cards, so
I simply use them out of circumstance.
I have taken advice from others and also tried to construct a conservative but decent mana base. Mana is expensive.
In addition there are fewer tutors. Some budget tutors were added and frankly they work great for what we are doing.
There are a few cards in here that I use for my meta. Such as extra artifact destruction. To note I have always found artifact destruction good though.
I have my own budget prossh list, so let's see if we can bounce ideas off of each other.
I'm a bit busy though so I'll have to look over your list later.
edit:
no ashnod's altar? It only gets you colorless mana (phyrexian altar is like $10 and will be harder to fit in the budget) but you can go pretty insane with it.
I don't like soul's majesty. It gets countered hard by removal. How about something like Skullmulcher or Life's legacy or momentous fall? You lose creature(s) but it's harder to prevent the card draw from happening.
I see no graveyard hate. Not even bojuka bog. I always try to put 1-3 graveyard hate cards in my decks.
I don't like Darigaaz's Caldera. It sets you back a land drop. I'd put bojuka bog in place of it.
I think 1-2 more cards that actually pump your creatures up would be useful. Things that can sweep small creatures are really problematic. My build has homura, human ascendant. The +2/+2 helps them survive pyroclasm, curse of death's hold, and even elesh norn. It's not necessary, but having a creature pump out can shut off some outs from your opponents preemptively, and lets your tokens bash face when they don't try to sweep out your creatures anyway.
I feel like you have too many cards that are "works well with tokens". It seems like you're relying on Prossh to make the first wave of tokens (then you have like Korozda Guildmage and mycoloth to pile it on), which is totally fine, but you may want to up the ramp count to get Prossh out in a timely manner. I count 14 pieces of ramp, you could maybe go up to 17 or so.
As for what to remove for these suggestions, not really sure. I'd say remove some of the "works well with tokens" since you have a lot of them, but I don't know which ones are the weakest ones since I don't have alot of experience with Prossh. My guess is to at least remove blood artist and falkenrath noble since they can only hit one player per creature death, unless the life gain is relevant in your group (I like goblin sharpshooter and goblin bombardment more than those two becuase these red cards can machine-gun down creatures).
Budget lists can vary quite a bit. What I have posted is what I currently have. I have a large wanted list at home of cards that I want or am looking for, but since my current deck changes are starting to slow down, I wanted to get my own deck up.
I went to my LGS awhile back for Ashnod's Alter. They didn't have it. I just tried experimenting with online shipping. If it works well I will try again and add it too the next list.
Phyrexian alter is a too expensive for me atm. If I am going to spend that much on a card it will have to be a large addition. Craterhoof is the card in my sights atm.
Where my list has gotten to, I will consider Birthing pod. Not sure how long I want to stick with my current deck.
But I don't have the mana acel/land base/card advantage generation that he has to justify using cards like his.
Maybe it is best to focus on where I am at. Which in that case I think incorporating Birthing Pod is a good choice.
As for card draw. Soul's Magesty can be countered. I agree. To a certain extent I like that it can. The danger of leaving up a creature is being nice to my opponents.
I hate taking away all their options. If it becomes a problem I have all the cards you mentioned in mind.
I used to run Skullmulcher but he impacted my board to hard. Replaced him with Shamanic Revelation for that slot. I think Skullmulcher is a perfect card to dig through your deck if you have the extra
mana to spare that turn. Him being a creature allows for abusing that. Other wise if I am just going to tap out for a card draw spell,
I think Revelation is better for me.
green sun's zenith: 9$ ?
Chord of callin: $3.89 ?
I have thought about both. I think the consistency is certainly strong. I just don't know if it is necessary. Like, if ran 5-6 creatures that just flat out won me games,
then the more tutor creature effects I ran the more potent they become. But if I am running 19 creatures that don't win games but are decent additions to my board state
I kinda like having the extra random element to drawing one.
To me these are on the radar if a more competitive meta starts coming forth.
I don't like cards that have to many AND conditions, like Decimate. I have played against people who punished me for using AND with Hull Breach. But at least hull breach can take out early threats.
Could you link a discussion on warp world? Or maybe post your thoughts. It is cheap enough to pick up and try out. I just don't know if its enough of a card to take something out for.
Bojuka bog is also on my wanted list. Recently I went over my mana, and it will change in the future for sure. I have a Relic of Progenitus. Just haven't decided on what to switch.
I think of Darigaaz's Caldera is fine for now. At least it comes in untapped so if I need the mana I can get it.
As for your analysis on my deck. You are absolutely right. My focus on tokens is a large weakness and a target that my opponents can abuse. I actually like that in a way. Though I often have enough ETB and TTB effects that I don't mind if tokens don't stick. Those triggers are often enough to win. If fact I sometimes cast Prossh into such effects just to get those triggers. Again my meta isn't hyper competitive.
If it were, I focus around a few win cons, increase tutors, mana acell, card advantage.
I will put homura, human ascendant on my wanted list though. In case such effects run more rampant.
Noble is probably the weakest. He was there in my first deck list. Now he is likely less necessary. Life gain helps vs a few evasion decks, and red/greed agro. Next is likely Orge. He just doesn't do enough.
Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder
Preyseizer Dragon
Are powerful but situational. They could be taken out for something else.
I don't see the point in playing dangerous cards like soul's majesty. We are already handcuffing ourselves by playing budget, I don't see the point in going one step further and playing risky cards on top of it when safer alternatives exist. I don't think switching to a safer card than soul's majesty is going to terribly disrupt the power level of your group, if that's what you're worried about, it's just going to get you blown out less often.
Decimate isn't terribly hard to satisfy the requirements. I don't know this could backfire on you, since once you cast it with 4 legal targets for it, anybody killing the targets afterwards won't counter decimate, the other legal targets will still get destroyed.
As for warp world, the two biggest drawbacks are the mana cost (8 mana si a lot, and triple red can be hard to reach) and the occasional backfire (like playing against other token decks), but if you have the most permanents on the board, warp world usually means you win.
I don't think endrek is situational in your build. He basically turns all your other creature spells into mini-Prosshes, and the only creature that kills him immediately is avenger, so as long as you have a sac outlet, you can keep getting rid of your thrulls to keep endrek in play. I'd actually play him in my build but I have like 5 creatures that are 7+ CMC so that's harder to keep him alive. Preyseizer is a bit situational though since it needs to attack to do anything.
608.2b Your right. That means the people I played with were cheating me.
I will think about decimate then. I feel like the two mana of Hull Breach helps stop Sol Ring and such from getting out of hand better.
Soul's Magesty is still a plenty good card. The draw back is inherent in many cards that target. I get to keep a creature out of it and it gives my opponents something to try and stop me with. I have no objections to switching it out, except for it is not of high priority. At the moment people haven't been blowing me out too hard and there are other cards to look into getting first.
I will look into getting a warp world and test it out.
One saving grace for Preyseizer is he can do the most single target damage with Tooth and Nail targeting him and Avenger (Bearing a haste enabler). But I think I would like his slot for something that is more immediately threatening on its own.
purchasing a few singles here and there has been my only option. From viewing the finely tuned Prossh lists it is clear that if you want to be competitive with Prossh you will have to fork out dough.
He has amazing synergy with cards like Food Chain and Craterhoof Behemoth. It is a shame that they can be pricey to pick up. In addition to this they often require support cards to make them
more consistant or have greater effect. These cards can also be very pricey. To this end I started crafting my list to utilize Prosshes inherent token making to my advantage and bypass a few of these options.
What this leaves me is a list that is much slower and doesn't hit as hard as other lists, but is still very strong and difficult to deal with if left to its devices.
I have left some cards out of this list that I am currently running, because they are a bit expensive and don't add to much extra value. I was fortunate to have some of these cards, so
I simply use them out of circumstance.
This deck utilizes the sheer number of creatures that enter and leave the battlefield. Purphoros, God of the Forge and Impact tremors ensure that as tokens hit, your opponents die. Descent of the dragons, Overwhelming Stampede, Shared Animosity, Beastmaster Ascension ensure that if your opponent does not deal with the tokens, they die. Vicious Shadows, Blood Artist, Falkenrath Noble, Goblin Bombardment, Goblin Sharpshooter ensure that if they do deal with your tokens, they die.
I have taken advice from others and also tried to construct a conservative but decent mana base. Mana is expensive.
In addition there are fewer tutors. Some budget tutors were added and frankly they work great for what we are doing.
There are a few cards in here that I use for my meta. Such as extra artifact destruction. To note I have always found artifact destruction good though.
http://mtgcardsmith.com/view/kobold-180#.VRn15uHAouE
I'm a bit busy though so I'll have to look over your list later.
edit:
no ashnod's altar? It only gets you colorless mana (phyrexian altar is like $10 and will be harder to fit in the budget) but you can go pretty insane with it.
You can make a pretty good Birthing pod curve.
I don't like soul's majesty. It gets countered hard by removal. How about something like Skullmulcher or Life's legacy or momentous fall? You lose creature(s) but it's harder to prevent the card draw from happening.
can the budget squeeze in chord of calling and/or green sun's zenith?
I like decimate. Not sure what you'd remove for it though.
no warp world?
I see no graveyard hate. Not even bojuka bog. I always try to put 1-3 graveyard hate cards in my decks.
I don't like Darigaaz's Caldera. It sets you back a land drop. I'd put bojuka bog in place of it.
I think 1-2 more cards that actually pump your creatures up would be useful. Things that can sweep small creatures are really problematic. My build has homura, human ascendant. The +2/+2 helps them survive pyroclasm, curse of death's hold, and even elesh norn. It's not necessary, but having a creature pump out can shut off some outs from your opponents preemptively, and lets your tokens bash face when they don't try to sweep out your creatures anyway.
I feel like you have too many cards that are "works well with tokens". It seems like you're relying on Prossh to make the first wave of tokens (then you have like Korozda Guildmage and mycoloth to pile it on), which is totally fine, but you may want to up the ramp count to get Prossh out in a timely manner. I count 14 pieces of ramp, you could maybe go up to 17 or so.
As for what to remove for these suggestions, not really sure. I'd say remove some of the "works well with tokens" since you have a lot of them, but I don't know which ones are the weakest ones since I don't have alot of experience with Prossh. My guess is to at least remove blood artist and falkenrath noble since they can only hit one player per creature death, unless the life gain is relevant in your group (I like goblin sharpshooter and goblin bombardment more than those two becuase these red cards can machine-gun down creatures).
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
I went to my LGS awhile back for Ashnod's Alter. They didn't have it. I just tried experimenting with online shipping. If it works well I will try again and add it too the next list.
Phyrexian alter is a too expensive for me atm. If I am going to spend that much on a card it will have to be a large addition. Craterhoof is the card in my sights atm.
Where my list has gotten to, I will consider Birthing pod. Not sure how long I want to stick with my current deck.
I love Feverous's list
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/511349-bighaben-and-feverous-prossh-skyraider-of-kher-frf
But I don't have the mana acel/land base/card advantage generation that he has to justify using cards like his.
Maybe it is best to focus on where I am at. Which in that case I think incorporating Birthing Pod is a good choice.
As for card draw. Soul's Magesty can be countered. I agree. To a certain extent I like that it can. The danger of leaving up a creature is being nice to my opponents.
I hate taking away all their options. If it becomes a problem I have all the cards you mentioned in mind.
I used to run Skullmulcher but he impacted my board to hard. Replaced him with Shamanic Revelation for that slot. I think Skullmulcher is a perfect card to dig through your deck if you have the extra
mana to spare that turn. Him being a creature allows for abusing that. Other wise if I am just going to tap out for a card draw spell,
I think Revelation is better for me.
green sun's zenith: 9$ ?
Chord of callin: $3.89 ?
I have thought about both. I think the consistency is certainly strong. I just don't know if it is necessary. Like, if ran 5-6 creatures that just flat out won me games,
then the more tutor creature effects I ran the more potent they become. But if I am running 19 creatures that don't win games but are decent additions to my board state
I kinda like having the extra random element to drawing one.
To me these are on the radar if a more competitive meta starts coming forth.
I don't like cards that have to many AND conditions, like Decimate. I have played against people who punished me for using AND with Hull Breach. But at least hull breach can take out early threats.
Could you link a discussion on warp world? Or maybe post your thoughts. It is cheap enough to pick up and try out. I just don't know if its enough of a card to take something out for.
Bojuka bog is also on my wanted list. Recently I went over my mana, and it will change in the future for sure. I have a Relic of Progenitus. Just haven't decided on what to switch.
I think of Darigaaz's Caldera is fine for now. At least it comes in untapped so if I need the mana I can get it.
As for your analysis on my deck. You are absolutely right. My focus on tokens is a large weakness and a target that my opponents can abuse. I actually like that in a way. Though I often have enough ETB and TTB effects that I don't mind if tokens don't stick. Those triggers are often enough to win. If fact I sometimes cast Prossh into such effects just to get those triggers. Again my meta isn't hyper competitive.
If it were, I focus around a few win cons, increase tutors, mana acell, card advantage.
I will put homura, human ascendant on my wanted list though. In case such effects run more rampant.
Noble is probably the weakest. He was there in my first deck list. Now he is likely less necessary. Life gain helps vs a few evasion decks, and red/greed agro. Next is likely Orge. He just doesn't do enough.
Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder
Preyseizer Dragon
Are powerful but situational. They could be taken out for something else.
I like how most the other creatures play though.
Decimate isn't terribly hard to satisfy the requirements. I don't know this could backfire on you, since once you cast it with 4 legal targets for it, anybody killing the targets afterwards won't counter decimate, the other legal targets will still get destroyed.
As for warp world, the two biggest drawbacks are the mana cost (8 mana si a lot, and triple red can be hard to reach) and the occasional backfire (like playing against other token decks), but if you have the most permanents on the board, warp world usually means you win.
I don't think endrek is situational in your build. He basically turns all your other creature spells into mini-Prosshes, and the only creature that kills him immediately is avenger, so as long as you have a sac outlet, you can keep getting rid of your thrulls to keep endrek in play. I'd actually play him in my build but I have like 5 creatures that are 7+ CMC so that's harder to keep him alive. Preyseizer is a bit situational though since it needs to attack to do anything.
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
I will think about decimate then. I feel like the two mana of Hull Breach helps stop Sol Ring and such from getting out of hand better.
Soul's Magesty is still a plenty good card. The draw back is inherent in many cards that target. I get to keep a creature out of it and it gives my opponents something to try and stop me with. I have no objections to switching it out, except for it is not of high priority. At the moment people haven't been blowing me out too hard and there are other cards to look into getting first.
I will look into getting a warp world and test it out.
One saving grace for Preyseizer is he can do the most single target damage with Tooth and Nail targeting him and Avenger (Bearing a haste enabler). But I think I would like his slot for something that is more immediately threatening on its own.
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