MTG Salvation

"When the Master governs, the people are hardly aware he exists..."

Ojutai is definitely a general geared for control: evasion, situational protection, and card advantage swinging with five power. So control is exactly what we intend to do here in a classic style. We have sweepers, spot removal, counterspells, denial, and hate; all the components of a healthy breakfast where the diners get flensed for lunch. As always, all comments, insights, and suggestions are welcome. The list may also be viewed at tappedout here.

The List (by Type and CMC)

Seems like a solid list. The only oversight that really jumps out is the lack of Reliquary Tower.

Swan song seems an interesting choice.
The single tormod's crypt doesn't seem like enough hate to me, every single deck I play against has some kinda of recursion engine or grave based combo. err i guess timetwister also counts.


*sigh* I wish I could afford this. I'll be having a go at something more budget :S.. but there isn't a good way to give vidgelance other than Heliod under $10.

Quote from Groovelord »

Seems like a solid list. The only oversight that really jumps out is the lack of Reliquary Tower

Thank you! I've never been much of a fan of Reliquary Tower to be honest, the effect is nice but competition for utility land spots in my decks can be pretty fierce - especially with Strip Mine and High Market holding almost perpetual auto-include status - and for right now I think better options are in play.

Quote from Narvuntien »

Swan song seems an interesting choice.
The single tormod's crypt doesn't seem like enough hate to me, every single deck I play against has some kinda of recursion engine or grave based combo. err i guess timetwister also counts.


*sigh* I wish I could afford this. I'll be having a go at something more budget :S.. but there isn't a good way to give vidgelance other than Heliod under $10.

I've been tweaking this deck all day and these comments have definitely been taken into account. I chose Swan Song initially for the mana cost, being able to cast Ojutai with counter backup at 6 seemed like sound sense and I've had great luck with it in my Talrand list. However, playing so far I've found I like having my counter suite to be as unrestricted as possible so I'm giving Deprive a try instead. I also readjusted my hate package to Grafdigger's Cage, Containment Priest, and Angel of Finality so we'll see how it works out.

I've found Sword of Vengeance to be the best card to pair with him so far, if that helps any ;). Thanks for the comments!

Lots more minor tweaks. Totally forgot Compulsion existed as a card but I'm very excited to try it out here, it should put in some good work. Switched over to Sword of Feast and Famine and I'm debating on Devastation Tide's includement. Anyone have any experience with Due Respect? I stumbled on it the other day and it has me intrigued. Anyways, enjoy!

Blind Obedience is much better than Due respect. I have made countless changes to my UW control deck and it has never been cut. Good against grieves and Kiki jiki and any number of sudden unexpected things. Also gains you life if you have spare mana.

I think you have enough wraths.

What are your thoughts on more Walkers? Jace's (for me AoT), Gideon Jura, Tamiyo, the moon sage, Teferi, temporal archmage

I think it can indeed be worth it to include more walkers, versions of Elspeth, Knight Errant and Elspeth, Sun's Champion, Narset and Jace,the Mindsculptor would all be good inclusions. I would also consider Terminus as another wrath or instead of hallowed burial. I would also recommend cutting some spells to fit in some more lands. In a control deck I would play at least 40 lands or land searchers such as Tithe, which would also be a good addition here, as you want to continuously make land drops.

Quote from Narvuntien »

Blind Obedience is much better than Due respect. I have made countless changes to my UW control deck and it has never been cut. Good against grieves and Kiki jiki and any number of sudden unexpected things. Also gains you life if you have spare mana.

I think you have enough wraths.

What are your thoughts on more Walkers? Jace's (for me AoT), Gideon Jura, Tamiyo, the moon sage, Teferi, temporal archmage

Quote from capitacom »

I think it can indeed be worth it to include more walkers, versions of Elspeth, Knight Errant and Elspeth, Sun's Champion, Narset and Jace,the Mindsculptor would all be good inclusions. I would also consider Terminus as another wrath or instead of hallowed burial. I would also recommend cutting some spells to fit in some more lands. In a control deck I would play at least 40 lands or land searchers such as Tithe, which would also be a good addition here, as you want to continuously make land drops.

Once again guys, thanks so much for the comments and insight! Changes I'm working with are now up. I increased my 'walker count up to four and my land count to thirty-six (totally forgot about Cavern of Souls). So far my mana base/land drops have been running smoothly so I'm going to stick in this range for now, though it might increase in the future. For 'walkers I chose Jace, Architect of Thought and Elspeth, Sun's Champion. They seemed to offer the best combination of useful effects (tokens, wrath, pillowfort, draw) and longevity, but I've got my eyes on a few other possibilities as well. The rest of the changes were adjustments to the hate & removal suites and other minor tweaks.

I'm loving this list, it's just so much fun (for me at least)! More changes or questions are sure to be on the horizon as play continues so keep an eye out. Any comments welcome as always!

Forbid is a great card for this deck. You're naturally offsetting the buyback cost with Ojutai, and in a pinch it's Cancel.

Quote from jylichan »

Forbid is a great card for this deck. You're naturally offsetting the buyback cost with Ojutai, and in a pinch it's Cancel.

Excellent suggestion! Completely overlooked it. We'll give it (along with Capsize) a run.

Ugh, I hate when life intrudes on Magic, it means I haven't gotten a whole lot of opportunity to play recently but this weekend should be primed. Along with the above suggestions, I'm considering trying out some of these cards as well, so any opinions would be quite appreciated.

Static Orb/Winter Orb/Frozen AEther - to slow down my opponents. AEther is nice for its asymmetrical nature and pitching to Force of Will but it's also the most expensive manawise. Both Orbs are symmetrical effects so we have to play around them but their disruption potential is astounding and they can both be resurrected by Sun Titan. AEther and Static Orb both would make the inclusion of Tamiyo, the Moon Sage and Gideon Jura more attractive as well. Out of them all, Static Orb is the one I find most attractive.

Comeuppance/Illusionist's Gambit/Orim's Chant - to protect me and my walkers. Gambit and Comeuppance both offer the possibility of taking a player out of the game (and would play well with Gideon) while Chant can essentially blank their turn. All of them can be replayed with Snapcaster Mage. Their major detriment is that they are one-off effects and more narrowly focused. My favorite here would be Orim's Chant I think.

Other cards on the radar (in various combinations with the above): Chain of Vapor, Foil, Abolish, Ring of Thune, Isperia, Supreme Judge, Ajani Steadfast, Teferi, Temporal Archmage, Back to Basics, Venser, the Sojourner, Dovescape, Humility, Peacekeeper, Magus of the Moat, Tangle Wire, Meddling Mage/Nevermore, Arcane Laboratory.

As always, I appreciate all comments. Happy playing!

You can also consider Solitary Confinement, which will render you immune to all damage until it's dealt with. You can even sustain it with the cards you draw from Ojutai.

There are so many directions you can go with this commander because he fills a lot of gaps in Azorius strategies.

Did you think I had forgotten about you?

Another fresh update getting ready for testing this weekend. It's a bit of a different take than what we had previously, one to test some different waters in the new metagame and explore some different territory in the color pairing. As always, fresh eyes are welcome and any feedback greatly appreciated. Enjoy!

Updates again. Giving some theft a try in the deck in the form of Gilded Drake and Treachery plus some more general restructuring to hit the right balance. As always, any comments welcome. Happy playing!

I feel like your manabase is really sketchy for a control deck. Do you find you're hitting your land drops reliably and getting your colors on time?

Also, I feel you could stand to play some cheaper wraths. I'd like to see Wrath of God in there just so there's a chance you could wrath early if needed--feel like you're going to be gasping at 6 mana to wrath occasionally. Possibly Hallowed Burial or Rout. I'd consider Nevinyrral's Disk or Oblivion Stone since you're running Academy Ruins and you can set up a pretty good soft lock there.

Archaeomancer is another card I would include since it soft locks the board with Evacuation.

Recommend Return to Dust over the other art/ench exiler. Usually can be a 2-for-1.

I feel like you could use a really convincing win condition. Maybe Luminarch Ascension? Or something like that - a single card that can crank out a win in a turn or two once you get the lockdown and a hand full of counterspells. Or maybe some way to make Ojutai huge and vigilant (Batterskull?)

Speaking of hand full - I think your card draw might be a little sketchy as well. Lots of questionable guys there.

Also: If you play Gilded Drake you must play Venser, the Sojourner. It's a rule.

Seconding Forbid. Must play with land tax. Will win you games.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ojutai-sempai/ - here's my take on it. it's been working really well so far. i started with a lot of hate bears at the start, but i quickly realized that just randomly playing hate bears doesn't really give me that much of an advantage.

Lots of advice taken, lots of playing been done, lots of changes. Too tired to list right now but the current product is all that really matters, so, enjoy!

Updated. 38 seems to be the sweet spot so far for lands, upped our creature count to 9 plus Ojutai, a number of other minor tweaks as well. Any questions or comments please feel free to ask. Have some good games!

38 is what I am running.

My deck has some insane card advantage, but its a little tough to survive and importantly winning is so hard. (I get quite a bit of hate from the start of the game but that drops off when others become threatening)

I am considering propaganda and Sphere of safety to protect my walkers, I have a lot of enchantments, I am hoping this will help get my walkers to ultimate (my only non Ojutai win con). I think Inexorable tide is too far. (ajani is amazing)

Some of your choices don't work for me since I have sooo many graveyard decks that I happily run rest in peace. I am not running the blue siege although i own it (I run thassa and the white siege but they are at the top of my cut list)

I think Weathered wayfarer might be worth a spot.. grabs the utility lands when your game plan is fogging those fog lands help a lot.

Quote from Narvuntien »

38 is what I am running.

My deck has some insane card advantage, but its a little tough to survive and importantly winning is so hard. (I get quite a bit of hate from the start of the game but that drops off when others become threatening)

I am considering propaganda and Sphere of safety to protect my walkers, I have a lot of enchantments, I am hoping this will help get my walkers to ultimate (my only non Ojutai win con). I think Inexorable tide is too far. (ajani is amazing)

Unfortunately, Propaganda will not protect your walkers from attack. Sphere is a card I've considered before but ultimately the mana cost and it's scaling nature keep me from adding it (though if you're running a higher density of enchantments it would surely have more appeal). Norn's Annex might be something to consider; it will protect your walkers, can come down early and easy, and forces the opponent to either bleed life or color to attack through it.

I know what you mean about the uphill battle for the win, especially if you're taking early heat. Do you have copy of your list already posted? If not, feel free to put it up here, I want to encourage this thread not just as my own vanity project but also a general resource for control-oriented Ojutai builds in general, so the more the merrier!

Some of your choices don't work for me since I have sooo many graveyard decks that I happily run rest in peace. I am not running the blue siege although i own it (I run thassa and the white siege but they are at the top of my cut list)

I think Weathered wayfarer might be worth a spot.. grabs the utility lands when your game plan is fogging those fog lands help a lot.

Rest in Peace is a very interesting thought. Graveyard decks have been on the uptick in my meta as well so some additional hate certainly couldn't hurt and could be made to affect me very little, but Angel of Finality might play a little nicer with the build as it currently stands. Monastery Siege has been very good for me so far, it's rare that I don't have some kind of chaff in my hand to pitch to it and it's secondary mode can also come in handy, especially if I've got Venser onboard to reset it. Wayfarer isn't a bad idea, I'll have to see what might open up for him when I play again. I'm also leaning towards adding Catastrophe and another Disenchant effect as well, Catastrophe for the flexibility, the spot removal to take care of Null Rod/Stony Silence which have also been popping up more and more in my playgroup.


jylichan: Just noticed your link! I'll drop over and leave some feedback on it for you as soon as I can. In the meantime, you are also welcome to post the full list here as well if you don't already have it up on salvation, like I said, I want this to be a brainstrust thread and resource for our most enlightened leader.

Return to Dust !

Quote from Pokken »

Return to Dust !

Heheh, yeah, I know . Return was onboard intially but got dropped because I was rarely casting it on a main phase. However, that was when I was running a lot more creatures and equipments than I am now so I imagine I would be much more likely to use it as a two-for-one. Other cards that are being considered along with Return would be:

Abolish: Doesn't exile but being able to drop it while tapped out gives it some sinister appeal. Still, I don't run that many Plains so it might not work as smoothly as I would wish.

Aura of Silence: Taxing the enemy's resources is always nice, as is being able to recur it with Sun Titan. Strikes against it are lack of exile (that's going to be true for most of these, actually) and ability to drop it as a response.

Dispeller's Capsule: Can be put down on turn one as a deterrent and recylced with both Titan and Academy Ruins but still can't be cast responsively.

Dismantling Blow: The kicker makes this very tantalizing, that's a lot of possible card advantage stapled into one. A very serious contender.

Council's Judgment: The lack of targeting combined with exile and the possibility of hitting multiple targets are some very heavy points in its favor, but it's not guaranteed to hit what you want and it's sorcery speed so it has a very unstable potential.

I think that about sums it up. As it stands now, I'm leaning towards either Dismantling Blow or Return to Dust since they seem to offer the best benefits and least drawbacks.

I think I'm also going to tweak my landbase a little as well and put in a few more fetchlands to smooth things out and give me some additional shuffles. Thanks for the advice!

The other possibility that I'm testing out currently is leonin relic-warder, but requires a certain number of sac outlets to be super efficient.