MTG Salvation

Hi everyone,

I'm new to MTG and Commander (picked up the game last November and an Evasive Maneuvers precon, haven't looked back). Commander is the only format I play and will probably only play EDH and it's variants for the time being. Not saying the other formats are bad but I really enjoy the mechanics behind the commander, playing huge cards, and not really being limited by deck size, what cards are allowed/not allowed.

I've been lurking a lot on this forum in particular and reading all of the threads on Roon. Big thanks to Outcryqq, Dies to Doom Blade, and indigoindigo for making such informative threads and updating them as they use their decks. It's a big help to a new player such as myself to read the reasoning behind card choices and theory behind decks.

Let's get to the nitty gritty.


I want my Roon deck to be relatively cheap, effective, and most importantly, fun to play. I think I have a good start here:



So before tearing this apart I have a couple of rules for myself:
I really don't want to pay more than $10-20 for a card. That being said, if I can spend less than $60 and greatly improve this deck with the ideals of it being fun to play and effective in mind I'll do it.



After playing this deck the other day for about 9 hours against some other very finely tuned Commanders a couple things stood out to me as immediate needs for this deck.

First of all: mana base. I've got a disadvantage coming into this format because my knowledge of cards is next to none. If a card was presented to me I could tell if it would be good in the deck or not but if I have no prior knowledge of cards that might do things better I'm SOL.

Second: Tutors. During my games I slowly learned to tap arcanis and Azami every chance I got and not to worry about the discard because just drawing the cards to discard them eventually was more effective way to get cards i wanted or needed. I'd rather not have to rely on this and search for specific cards.



I'd like suggestions for how to improve this deck without spending a fortune. Keep in mind my newness to the game so don't be surprised if there's some nonsensical cards in there currently.

Well, one thing I noticed right away is that you included Soulfire Grandmaster, which is a good card, but actually illegal in a Roon commander deck. I see from your post that your newer to this, so it's an understandable mistake. For the purposes of legality in a commander deck, cards have something called a color identity. Soulfire Grandmaster, for example, is a white creature by the game's rules, but for deck construction, it is considered a white, blue, and red card, making it illegal. This rule makes it so generals like Memnarch and Rhys the Exiled allow you to use their abilities, but it does make some cards illegal in certain decks, even if you could pay for their ability in that deck.


EDIT: I should make it very clear that it is off-color mana symbols in the COST or RULES TEXT that makes a card illegal to use. For example, you could run Polluted Delta, and only ever get Islands with it, because it doesn't actually have a black symbol anywhere on it. Likewise, you could run cards with Extort because the black symbol is technically in their reminder text, not their rules text.

Now, as far as fine-tuning the deck is concerned, it is important that you understand how the deck was designed. All the shard-colored decks from this set of commander (Derevi and co.), were designed in a way that the three legends included each had a way to be built around, and support for each. Tap and untap manipulation for Derevi, flickering for Roon, and gain control for Rubinia. In this sense, all those commander decks are sort of 'Jack of all trades, Master of none.'

To optimize the deck, you want to focus the most of your efforts on good flickering abilities, and good targets for flickering. For instance, Devouring light should be replaced by a Banishing Light, an Oblivion Ring, or best of all, a Detention Sphere(If you can, run them all.) You lose the ability to tap creatures to pay for them, but they can target anything, not just attackers, and their best functionality is that later on you can flicker them to change what they exile. Plus, they can all be hit with Sun Titan.

The best repeatable flicker you can run in your deck is Venser, the Sojourner. I know you don't want to spend a lot on certain cards, but Venser is almost mandatory. He has the ability to flicker PERMANENTS you own. You can even use this to hit your own creatures that may be taken from you by cards like Mind Control. And that's not even all he does. Making your creatures unblockable makes you win that much faster, and if you manage to get the emblem, you are going to win. Other sources of flickering include: Brago, King Eternal, Cloudshift, Flicker, Galepowder Mage, Ghostly Flicker, Glimmerpoint Stag, Liberate, Momentary Blink, Nephalia Smuggler, Otherworldly Journey, Restoration Angel, Turn to Mist, and Voidwalk. Now, I've given you a lot of options, and you only have so many slots in your deck, so repeatable effects are best. I think Brago and Smuggler make the cut at least. I will also mention Astral Slide, but this requires you to run cards with cycle. For a look at how that works, I recommend cryogen's page here: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/596643-astral-slide-derevi

For your tutoring/drawing issues, I recommend Prime Speaker Zegana. If you have Roon out, she's a 5/5 that draws five cards, and you can do it repeatedly. Other good targets for draw or ramp flickering include Sphinx of Uthuun, Solemn Simulacrum, Coiling Oracle, Wall of Omens, Wall of Blossoms, Carven Caryatid, Elvish Visionary, Regal Force, Jungle Barrier, Slithermuse, Wistful Selkie, Mulldrifter,Sylvan Ranger, Yavimaya Granger, Yavimaya Dryad, Wood Elves, Kor Cartographer, and Silverglade Elemental. Which of these you decide to run is up to you, but you certainly don't need all of them.

Now, there are big cards that can be abused through flicker to do pretty awesome things. You already have some, like Hornet Queen, Angel of Serenity, and Progenitor Mimic, but there are others.
-Venser, Shaper Savant/Æther Adept/Man-o'-War/Æthersnipe. Bounce Abilities.
-Eternal Witness/Archaeomancer. Recursion.
-Armada Wurm/Avenger of Zendikar/Thragtusk/Wingmate Roc. Extra Dudes.
-Brutalizer Exarch. Tutors and can tuck troublesome noncreature permanents(Planeswalkers).
-Craterhoof Behemoth. Usually wins the game.
-Diluvian Primordial. In commander, this is usually crazy-town. Jace's Mindseeker is a smaller alternative.
-Mystic Snake/Draining Whelk. Counterspells.
-Duplicant/Reclamation Sage/Woodfall Primus. Various removal.
-Gilded Drake. This one's a bit out of the range you listed (~$15), but can do neat things, especially with Roon and Venser. You play it, switch control of it with something, and later, you can flicker it with them to gain control of something else, while keeping what you took the first time.
-Palinchron/Great Whale/Peregrine Drake. Untaps your lands. Also, you have a Deadeye Navigator in your deck, which when combined with these makes infinite mana (Once they're both in play, tap 2 to flicker one of these. After your lands untap, tap another 2 to flicker, but tap the rest to get their mana. Then your lands untap again, netting you mana each time). This is one of the more popular combos, and will draw removal if you're close to doing it.
-Loxodon Hierarch. Gains some life, and can save your dudes in a pinch.
-Resolute Archangel. Never not be at 40 life.
-Sunblast Angel. Repeatable Wrath effect that you can manipulate with untapping/other flickering.
-Terastodon. Turn troublesome noncreature permanents into elephants. Or sometimes you need your lands to become elephants.

As far as your manabase goes, that will be probably the most expensive part to build. Good lands aren't cheap, but here's a list of options, in order of how I prefer to build a deck:
Windswept Heath, Breeding Pool, Hallowed Fountain, Temple Garden, Sunpetal Grove, Glacial Fortress, Hinterland Harbor, Mystic Gate, Flooded Grove, Wooded Bastion, Temple of Enlightenment, Temple of Mystery, Temple of Plenty, City of Brass, Mana Confluence, Yavimaya Coast, Adarkar Wastes, Brushland, Azorius Chancery, Simic Growth Chamber, and Selesnya Sanctuary. I haven't listed the original duals or other fetches because their prices will make you cry.

Oh, and replace Aerie Mystics with Asceticism. If your dudes get shroud, you can't target them to flicker them.

Until you get the bigger cards recommended above, Sudden Disappearance can mass blink your stuff, while also taking out opposing token creatures and counters on creatures in a pinch.

Cheers!

Quote from WoodSmithy »

Well, one thing I noticed right away is that you included Soulfire Grandmaster, which is a good card, but actually illegal in a Roon commander deck. I see from your post that your newer to this, so it's an understandable mistake. For the purposes of legality in a commander deck, cards have something called a color identity. Soulfire Grandmaster, for example, is a white creature by the game's rules, but for deck construction, it is considered a white, blue, and red card, making it illegal. This rule makes it so generals like Memnarch and Rhys the Exiled allow you to use their abilities, but it does make some cards illegal in certain decks, even if you could pay for their ability in that deck.


EDIT: I should make it very clear that it is off-color mana symbols in the COST or RULES TEXT that makes a card illegal to use. For example, you could run Polluted Delta, and only ever get Islands with it, because it doesn't actually have a black symbol anywhere on it. Likewise, you could run cards with Extort because the black symbol is technically in their reminder text, not their rules text.

Thanks I did not know that.

Quote from WoodSmithy »

Now, as far as fine-tuning the deck is concerned, it is important that you understand how the deck was designed. All the shard-colored decks from this set of commander (Derevi and co.), were designed in a way that the three legends included each had a way to be built around, and support for each. Tap and untap manipulation for Derevi, flickering for Roon, and gain control for Rubinia. In this sense, all those commander decks are sort of 'Jack of all trades, Master of none.'

To optimize the deck, you want to focus the most of your efforts on good flickering abilities, and good targets for flickering. For instance, Devouring light should be replaced by a Banishing Light, an Oblivion Ring, or best of all, a Detention Sphere(If you can, run them all.) You lose the ability to tap creatures to pay for them, but they can target anything, not just attackers, and their best functionality is that later on you can flicker them to change what they exile. Plus, they can all be hit with Sun Titan.

The best repeatable flicker you can run in your deck is Venser, the Sojourner. I know you don't want to spend a lot on certain cards, but Venser is almost mandatory. He has the ability to flicker PERMANENTS you own. You can even use this to hit your own creatures that may be taken from you by cards like Mind Control. And that's not even all he does. Making your creatures unblockable makes you win that much faster, and if you manage to get the emblem, you are going to win. Other sources of flickering include: Brago, King Eternal, Cloudshift, Flicker, Galepowder Mage, Ghostly Flicker, Glimmerpoint Stag, Liberate, Momentary Blink, Nephalia Smuggler, Otherworldly Journey, Restoration Angel, Turn to Mist, and Voidwalk. Now, I've given you a lot of options, and you only have so many slots in your deck, so repeatable effects are best. I think Brago and Smuggler make the cut at least. I will also mention Astral Slide, but this requires you to run cards with cycle. For a look at how that works, I recommend cryogen's page here: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/596643-astral-slide-derevi

For your tutoring/drawing issues, I recommend Prime Speaker Zegana. If you have Roon out, she's a 5/5 that draws five cards, and you can do it repeatedly. Other good targets for draw or ramp flickering include Sphinx of Uthuun, Solemn Simulacrum, Coiling Oracle, Wall of Omens, Wall of Blossoms, Carven Caryatid, Elvish Visionary, Regal Force, Jungle Barrier, Slithermuse, Wistful Selkie, Mulldrifter,Sylvan Ranger, Yavimaya Granger, Yavimaya Dryad, Wood Elves, Kor Cartographer, and Silverglade Elemental. Which of these you decide to run is up to you, but you certainly don't need all of them.

Now, there are big cards that can be abused through flicker to do pretty awesome things. You already have some, like Hornet Queen, Angel of Serenity, and Progenitor Mimic, but there are others.
-Venser, Shaper Savant/Æther Adept/Man-o'-War/Æthersnipe. Bounce Abilities.
-Eternal Witness/Archaeomancer. Recursion.
-Armada Wurm/Avenger of Zendikar/Thragtusk/Wingmate Roc. Extra Dudes.
-Brutalizer Exarch. Tutors and can tuck troublesome noncreature permanents(Planeswalkers).
-Craterhoof Behemoth. Usually wins the game.
-Diluvian Primordial. In commander, this is usually crazy-town. Jace's Mindseeker is a smaller alternative.
-Mystic Snake/Draining Whelk. Counterspells.
-Duplicant/Reclamation Sage/Woodfall Primus. Various removal.
-Gilded Drake. This one's a bit out of the range you listed (~$15), but can do neat things, especially with Roon and Venser. You play it, switch control of it with something, and later, you can flicker it with them to gain control of something else, while keeping what you took the first time.
-Palinchron/Great Whale/Peregrine Drake. Untaps your lands. Also, you have a Deadeye Navigator in your deck, which when combined with these makes infinite mana (Once they're both in play, tap 2 to flicker one of these. After your lands untap, tap another 2 to flicker, but tap the rest to get their mana. Then your lands untap again, netting you mana each time). This is one of the more popular combos, and will draw removal if you're close to doing it.
-Loxodon Hierarch. Gains some life, and can save your dudes in a pinch.
-Resolute Archangel. Never not be at 40 life.
-Sunblast Angel. Repeatable Wrath effect that you can manipulate with untapping/other flickering.
-Terastodon. Turn troublesome noncreature permanents into elephants. Or sometimes you need your lands to become elephants.

As far as your manabase goes, that will be probably the most expensive part to build. Good lands aren't cheap, but here's a list of options, in order of how I prefer to build a deck:
Windswept Heath, Breeding Pool, Hallowed Fountain, Temple Garden, Sunpetal Grove, Glacial Fortress, Hinterland Harbor, Mystic Gate, Flooded Grove, Wooded Bastion, Temple of Enlightenment, Temple of Mystery, Temple of Plenty, City of Brass, Mana Confluence, Yavimaya Coast, Adarkar Wastes, Brushland, Azorius Chancery, Simic Growth Chamber, and Selesnya Sanctuary. I haven't listed the original duals or other fetches because their prices will make you cry.

Oh, and replace Aerie Mystics with Asceticism. If your dudes get shroud, you can't target them to flicker them.

This is an awesome post, plenty of cards for me to look through and I'm definitely staying within my budget for this deck while still pumping it up quite a bit.

Definitely picking up these:

Mystic Snake Restoration Angel Coiling Oracle Simic Growth Chamber Eternal Witness Prime Speaker Zegana Banishing Light Brutalizer Exarch Detention Sphere Asceticism Venser, The Sojourner Oblivion Ring