Hey all! Returning user here, and returning commander player as well. I decided I want to make a somewhat silly deck that can win, and is in tune with the flavor of a pure Red/Green mage. The basic gist of the deck is that its all creatures, except for lands and one copy of Primal Surge. I want to stay true to the theme of the deck, but its also fairly, how you say, unnderpowered right now as its basically just made out of cards from my collection. I have a few ideas of what I want to put in, but I want to hear what more seasoned and experienced players think when they look at the list. I also am having some issues with the mana curve; I have a glut of creatures at 6+ mana and a real lack of solid 2-4 drops. It causes most games to play out where I can't play much until turns 4-5, and after that I can usually only play one spell a turn when others are playing 2-3. Any feedback is welcome, really just looking for more ideas right now.
Admittedly not optimized/powerful, but what do you guys think? Any suggestions for cards or a general strategy? Another thing I forgot to mention are good ramp creatures, not exactly sure how many to include. I feel like I don't have enough, but that is also probably due to by horrendous curve. Any suggestions are welcome!
While I love a good primal surge deck, it is kinda difficult to actually make it work without a way to tutor it up. I'm not as familiar with all the cards in magic as most people here seem to be, but ring of three wishes might be a good start as it is a permanent tutor and wont mess you up if you hit primal surge without it. If you are going to run primal surge you might also want to consider a way to give your creatures haste after they hit the field so you can attack with them that turn which is always fun. Cards I have used for that are Need for Speed, Akroma's Memorial, and Hammer of Purphoros.
Mana rocks are another way to to ramp into those bigger spells you have. Gruul Keyrune gives you a creature or mana. Gruul Cluestone allows you to draw a card when you don't need the mana. Gruul Signet gives you mana ramp. Chromatic Sphere and Chromatic Star offer mana fixing while allowing you to draw cards, and the same goes for Prophetic Prism. Expedition map will help as well with color fixing and deck thinning.
Elvish visionary is a two drop that will help lower your curve and once again draws you cards. I think the weakest of your six drops are forgestoker dragon and Dragonlair Spider. So if you are looking to make cuts for any of this, that is where I would start.
These are just the things that come to mind off the top of my head. Hope it helps!
It occurs to me that I didn't make this clear in the main post (which I will change accordingly), but if you hadn't noticed from the decklist Primal Surge is the only non-land non-creature card in the deck. Yes ladies and gentlemen, this is an all creature deck! Suggestions are always welcome, but I'm mostly looking for spicy creatures to add a punch here. I have actually been looking for some more cards like Joraga Treespeaker that can tap for 2 mana, but any all star ramp creatures would be appreciated.
I also have been making a list of cards that I want to add in, basically a dream list. Anyone have experience with these cards in EDH?
If I were running Ruric Thar, I would really want to run something that gives him lifelink for added value with his trigger. Basilisk Collar also grants deathtouch which helps with the forced combat. Also Loxodon Warhammer.
As for creature permanents, two more haste enablers are Anger and Ogre Battledriver. They don't work super-well with Primal Surge, however, as the Ogre only grants haste to things that come in after it, and Anger only works in the graveyard.
To your list:
Genesis Hydra - doesn't work well with Primal Surge. It can (possibly) get you another permanent when cast, but will always need to be a ~7ish drop for you to reliably get the value. I would pass.
Hydra Broodmaster- First you have to cast it at 6, then you need at least 7 or 9 mana for the monstrous ability to be good. Another pass, personally.
Polukranos - this Hydra I like. Paired with one of my earlier suggestions, Basilisk Collar especially, could be really cool. Even without, it can pick off some small utility creatures and gets bigger.
Vengevine - solid all-round; cheap (for EDH), resilient, and a decent sized body. Worth a try.
Heroe's Bane - Could be worth a try; doesn't die instantly off of Primal Surge. Again, pairs well with Loxodon Warhammer, and gets along real well with Kalonian Hydra
Fauna Shaman - creature-based creature search. Great include for this deck.
Wood Elves - Helps you ramp up for those big spells, can grab your Stomping Grounds, or even grab a Dryad Arbor, and the best part; puts it directly into play.
Hero of Oxid Ridge - The battle cry trigger could be nice, but if you pack the deck with fatties, the extra one point per creature will be negligible, and the weird evasion on this guy isn't going to do much work.
Oracle of Mul Daya - another great include. Can help ramp, and the ability to drop lands from the top of the library is almost as good as drawing a card.
Hell's Thunder - a two-use four damage creature is a little lack-luster in EDH.
Boldwyr Heavyweights- As much as I have wanted to use this card before, I can't recommend it. It lets your opponents grab their best answer, or the last piece of their combo, while all you got is an 8/8. Not a great trade, unfortunately.
Huntmaster of the fells - With Ruric Thar on the board, you could potentially be flipping him back and forth (play two spells on your turn, opponents pass without playing anything). He can be a lot of fun.
Vorrapede - Great value here as well, undying is great, Vigilence is great, Trample is great.
Thunderblust on the other hand, dies too easily, then re-dies even easier. This is a pass in my opinion.
Knollspine Dragon - Very situational; could be good, but its expensive and has the potential for win-more.
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa - Trample enabler for the team. Yep, he's good.
SIlvos, Rogue Elemental - the cheap regenerate is nice, but regen isn't as relevant in EDH with Wrath of God and older-style variants.
Rapacious One - I've had mixed results on this one myself. Generally, by the time I can cast him, I don't need mana dorks anymore, and there aren't enough easy attacks to get the trigger without also throwing him away.
Kodama - Efficient, but just doesn't do enough by himself.
Eternal Witness is pretty much an auto-include. She's a creature, and she grabs ANY card in the grave (including a possibly countered Primal Surge).
the two Hideaways are fun too, and are two of the easier ones to "activate".
Cutable:
Apocalypse Hydra - double counters is great, but the pinging ability is not really. It won't kill most stuff, and plus it gets smaller doing it. Polukranos is a great replacement. He is cheaper up front, and gives you more options on how you want to deal the direct damage, and gets bigger from doing it, instead of smaller.
Nacatl Outlander and Mistcutter Hydra- is your playgroup Blue heavy? The Hydra is keep-able if you are worried about that, but the Nacatl would be better replaced by a Gaea's Herald for more counter protection.
Stalking Vengeance - This is more of a combo card, and while a full board and this guy will deter a board wipe, the opponent will always wipe to remove the threats versus letting you keep your toys.
Gruul Ragebeast - The fight is not optional, and makes some later game utility creatures/small dudes just die to bad fights.
Forgestoker is another somewhat underwhelming creature. I would cut for something lower on the curve.
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1 Ruric Thar the Unbowed
1-Drops - 5
1 Arbor Elf
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Joraga Treespeaker
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
1 Magus of the Vineyard
2-Drops - 6
1 Vexing Shusher
1 Lightning Mauler
1 Zhur-Taa Druid
1 Nacatl Outlander
1 Sakura Tribe-Elder
1 Sylvan Ranger
3-Drops - 11
1 Farhaven Elf
1 Palladium Myr
1 Wilderness Elemental
1 Fertilid
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Somberwald Sage
1 Taurean Mauler
1 Mwonvuli Beast Tracker
1 Battle Rampart
1 Hellraiser Goblin
1 Predator Ooze
4-Drops - 9
1 Spellbreaker Behemoth
1 Ondu Giant
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Bloodbraid Elf
1 Gamekeeper
1 Brooding Saurian
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Nylea, God of the Hunt
1 Drumhunter
1 Urabrask the Hidden
1 Wolfir Silverheart
1 Weatherseed Treefold
1 Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
1 Acidic Slime
1 Bellowing Tanglewurm
1 Arbor Colossus
1 Deus of Calamity
1 Thragtusk
6-Drops - 12 (with Ruric)
1 Dragonlair Spider
1 Brutalizer Exarch
1 Soul of the Harvest
1 Dragon Broodmother
1 Hellkite Charger
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Inferno Titan
1 Hydra Omnivore
1 Bane of Progress
1 Vigor
1 Forgestoker Dragon
7-Drops - 4
1 Stalking Vengeance
1 Gruul Ragebeast
1 Molten Primoridial
1 Speakbreaker Behemoth
8-Drops - 3
1 Akroma, Angel of Fury
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Terastodon
1 Mistcutter Hydra
1 Apocalypse Hydra
THE SAUCE
1 Primal Surge
Lands - 38
17 Forest
8 Mountains
1 Command Tower
1 Exotic Orchard
1 Raging Ravine
1 Gruul Turf
1 Treetop Village
1 Highland Weald
1 Temple of Abandon
1 Karplusan Forest
1 Rootbound Crag
1 Stomping Ground
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Skarrg, the Rage Pits
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
Admittedly not optimized/powerful, but what do you guys think? Any suggestions for cards or a general strategy? Another thing I forgot to mention are good ramp creatures, not exactly sure how many to include. I feel like I don't have enough, but that is also probably due to by horrendous curve. Any suggestions are welcome!
Mana rocks are another way to to ramp into those bigger spells you have. Gruul Keyrune gives you a creature or mana. Gruul Cluestone allows you to draw a card when you don't need the mana. Gruul Signet gives you mana ramp. Chromatic Sphere and Chromatic Star offer mana fixing while allowing you to draw cards, and the same goes for Prophetic Prism. Expedition map will help as well with color fixing and deck thinning.
Elvish visionary is a two drop that will help lower your curve and once again draws you cards. I think the weakest of your six drops are forgestoker dragon and Dragonlair Spider. So if you are looking to make cuts for any of this, that is where I would start.
These are just the things that come to mind off the top of my head. Hope it helps!
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
It occurs to me that I didn't make this clear in the main post (which I will change accordingly), but if you hadn't noticed from the decklist Primal Surge is the only non-land non-creature card in the deck. Yes ladies and gentlemen, this is an all creature deck! Suggestions are always welcome, but I'm mostly looking for spicy creatures to add a punch here. I have actually been looking for some more cards like Joraga Treespeaker that can tap for 2 mana, but any all star ramp creatures would be appreciated.
I also have been making a list of cards that I want to add in, basically a dream list. Anyone have experience with these cards in EDH?
1 Hydra Broodmaster
1 Polukranos
1 Vengevine
1 Hero's Bane
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Wood Elves
1 Hero of Oxxid Ridge
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Hell's Thunder
1 Boldwyr Heavyweights
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Vorapede
1 Thunderblust
1 Knollspine Dragon
1 Kamahl Fist of Krosa
1 Silvos, Rogue Elemental
1 Rapacious One
1 Kodama of the North Tree
1 Eternal Witness
1 Mosswort Bridge
1 Spinerock Knoll
If so, any suggestions on cuttable cards? Thanks guys!
As for creature permanents, two more haste enablers are Anger and Ogre Battledriver. They don't work super-well with Primal Surge, however, as the Ogre only grants haste to things that come in after it, and Anger only works in the graveyard.
To your list:
Hydra Broodmaster- First you have to cast it at 6, then you need at least 7 or 9 mana for the monstrous ability to be good. Another pass, personally.
Polukranos - this Hydra I like. Paired with one of my earlier suggestions, Basilisk Collar especially, could be really cool. Even without, it can pick off some small utility creatures and gets bigger.
Vengevine - solid all-round; cheap (for EDH), resilient, and a decent sized body. Worth a try.
Heroe's Bane - Could be worth a try; doesn't die instantly off of Primal Surge. Again, pairs well with Loxodon Warhammer, and gets along real well with Kalonian Hydra
Fauna Shaman - creature-based creature search. Great include for this deck.
Wood Elves - Helps you ramp up for those big spells, can grab your Stomping Grounds, or even grab a Dryad Arbor, and the best part; puts it directly into play.
Hero of Oxid Ridge - The battle cry trigger could be nice, but if you pack the deck with fatties, the extra one point per creature will be negligible, and the weird evasion on this guy isn't going to do much work.
Oracle of Mul Daya - another great include. Can help ramp, and the ability to drop lands from the top of the library is almost as good as drawing a card.
Hell's Thunder - a two-use four damage creature is a little lack-luster in EDH.
Boldwyr Heavyweights- As much as I have wanted to use this card before, I can't recommend it. It lets your opponents grab their best answer, or the last piece of their combo, while all you got is an 8/8. Not a great trade, unfortunately.
Huntmaster of the fells - With Ruric Thar on the board, you could potentially be flipping him back and forth (play two spells on your turn, opponents pass without playing anything). He can be a lot of fun.
Vorrapede - Great value here as well, undying is great, Vigilence is great, Trample is great.
Thunderblust on the other hand, dies too easily, then re-dies even easier. This is a pass in my opinion.
Knollspine Dragon - Very situational; could be good, but its expensive and has the potential for win-more.
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa - Trample enabler for the team. Yep, he's good.
SIlvos, Rogue Elemental - the cheap regenerate is nice, but regen isn't as relevant in EDH with Wrath of God and older-style variants.
Rapacious One - I've had mixed results on this one myself. Generally, by the time I can cast him, I don't need mana dorks anymore, and there aren't enough easy attacks to get the trigger without also throwing him away.
Kodama - Efficient, but just doesn't do enough by himself.
Eternal Witness is pretty much an auto-include. She's a creature, and she grabs ANY card in the grave (including a possibly countered Primal Surge).
the two Hideaways are fun too, and are two of the easier ones to "activate".
I would also suggest Yeva, Nature's Herald and Seedborn Muse. Who needs haste when you can cast creatures on your opponent's turn?
Apocalypse Hydra - double counters is great, but the pinging ability is not really. It won't kill most stuff, and plus it gets smaller doing it. Polukranos is a great replacement. He is cheaper up front, and gives you more options on how you want to deal the direct damage, and gets bigger from doing it, instead of smaller.
Nacatl Outlander and Mistcutter Hydra- is your playgroup Blue heavy? The Hydra is keep-able if you are worried about that, but the Nacatl would be better replaced by a Gaea's Herald for more counter protection.
Stalking Vengeance - This is more of a combo card, and while a full board and this guy will deter a board wipe, the opponent will always wipe to remove the threats versus letting you keep your toys.
Gruul Ragebeast - The fight is not optional, and makes some later game utility creatures/small dudes just die to bad fights.
Forgestoker is another somewhat underwhelming creature. I would cut for something lower on the curve.