Ok so I started playing magic a few months ago now and have used the forums to help make a few modern and standard decks. I got one of the Mind Seize edh decks from target a month ago and it was fun to play with so I have been trying to make a new one. I have been looking through the forum for help and built what I have below. I have been getting stomped though with it so I am trying to figure out what I need to take out and what needs to go in.
I feel like I am a bit weak on land but any and all help is appreciated. I am thinking I need to put in some kill spells for a flyer I keep getting smashed by Prossh. I am having a hard time decided what is the right things to take out and replace.
I am going to make a list of other cards I have as well that I can use. I am not against buying some new cards but I am also trying to stay on a budget and not buy all the ultra expensive cards.
I also have a Mimeoplasm if that might be easier to convert over to.
Well just playing with my friends every couple weeks so nothing to crazy competitive wise. I dont want to just flat out murder everyone with a combo every time but I do want to have fun and win every once in a while.
Do I have a decent start so far or am I doing pretty terrible at this my first try? lol
Fair warning I have seen at least three different people start out with a casual fun Karador deck that just evolved over time to become competitively focused around combos. He just seems to trend that way when the combo pieces are so easy to throw in as useful cards and before you know it you have a tuned combo deck.
If you want to specifically avoid comboes I recommend trying to stay away from Saffi Eriksdotter, Revillark, Triskelion (Mikaeus, the unhallowed can be a superb casual card, unfortunately, he bears the collective combo stigma. I recommend not including just for the hate he recieves), and Survival of the Fittest. In my mind these are the worst offenders and warning signs of imminent combo in a karador deck and will play against the deck far differently than if I did not see any of them.
Not so coincidentally most of those are worth money of some form or another so thats even more incentive to allocate the budget to fund a list that has a more interactive game plan than combo.
Some general guidelines that I have observed from playing against several different versions of karador ranging from very casual to extremely competitive.
1) Regardless of anything else he is excellent at recursion and therefore favors a more grindy game plan where your opponents run out of resources leaving the board open for you to dominate.
2) Cheaper utility creatures are great as they can be played early, sacked/used for chump blocks, and then recurred for value later on.
3) To complement the creature suite some good sweepers and other removal are definitely recommended.
Cards:
I Took a quick look through your list and noticed some absences. I will make a conscious effort to only recommend things that fall below the 2.00USD mark as you mentioned that you were on a budget. EDIT: Many of my recommendations also were recently reprinted or printed so trading should be quite feasible.
Board sweeps are great for karador, Alongside decree of pain I recommend picking up:
-Merciless Eviction
-Planar Cleansing
-There are multitudes of other white sweepers that are quite cheap. I would not go above 5 total however.
Land:
I only see 30 lands plus 2-3 pieces of ramp. I would definitely recommend trying to get that number up to 35 and then perhaps considering some more green ramp as it is cheap money wise and easy mana fixing.
Cards over 2 dollars are not a problem to recommend because if they seem like the right card then it will be worth getting it. I am just not really looking to buy all the 20 dollar cards haha
Cards over 2 dollars are not a problem to recommend because if they seem like the right card then it will be worth getting it. I am just not really looking to buy all the 20 dollar cards haha
Wrath effects are somewhat asymmetrical for Karador so I like Wrath of God (and Day of Judgment, Damnation is probably over budget).
Phyrexian Arena is a great card. Play it. Jarad's Orders is solid for Karador. It's essentially the same as two Demonic Tutors stapled together (since you mostly just want to tutor creatures). I also like Eladamri's Call. And Fauna Shaman
Like others have said, increase you lands. Probably at least to 35. Consider more artifact ramp. Definitely play at least 2 of the following:
Would the Tainted Forest and Tainted Plains lands be good additions?
Truthfully, I've found that I really want basics and cards with the Forest type. I run a fair number of non-basics in my build, but I have a fair number of dorks who fetch me land, and they're almost always basics. So long as you can get a couple in your opening hand and some recursion you're not going to need to rely on weird lands to smooth out your mana. Basics also make Hermit Druid much better and helps prevent overextending.
Alright well I have started to gather some of the cards yall recommended. Also started going through the retired Primer and Cryogen's deck.
Cryogen can you tell me some of the combo cards that you use and exactly how they work? I am kind of new so I dont always get how to set them off.
Also what do yall think about Mimeoplasm? I have one of those as well. He seems like he is less combo-ey then Karador right? Think I can start converting some of the cards in this deck into a deck for him? If thats the case maybe ill make Karador more combo style and Mimeoplasm for a non-combo style deck.
One of the hardest things for me is deciding what cards to take out. Should I take out cards that tend to shove stuff into my graveyard? Like dredge and what not ones? It seems like 50% of the time I play my graveyard gets wiped and it ends up being bad for me.
Hey, Mombo, I know this thread is old and you may not be keeping up with it anymore, but I also run a Karador deck and I have found that Magister of Worth is a really fun card that most of the time ends up being a recursive board wipe that leaves you with a 4/4 flyer cuz nobody wants your graveyard on the battlefield.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I feel like I am a bit weak on land but any and all help is appreciated. I am thinking I need to put in some kill spells for a flyer I keep getting smashed by Prossh. I am having a hard time decided what is the right things to take out and replace.
I am going to make a list of other cards I have as well that I can use. I am not against buying some new cards but I am also trying to stay on a budget and not buy all the ultra expensive cards.
I also have a Mimeoplasm if that might be easier to convert over to.
1 reassembling skeleton
1 satyr wayfinder
1 sakura-tribe elder
1 dawntreader elk
1 viridian emissary
1 boneyard wurm
1 nighthowler
1 yavimaya elder
1 fleshbag marauder
1 wood elves
1 nyx weaver
1 stinkweed imp
1 necromancer's assistant
1 brawn
1 slum reaper
1 undergrowth scavenger
1 Jarad, golgari lich lord
1 acidic slime
1 vengeful pharaoh
1 gray merchant of asphodel
1 drakestown forgotten
1 lord of extinction
1 deadwood treefolk
1 rampaging baloths
1 nemesis of mortals
1 sun titan
1 avenger of zendikar
1 sepulchral primordial
1 butcher of malakir
1 ghoultree
1 dread cacodemon
1 spider spawning
1 syphon mind
1 harmonize
1 cultivate
1 disentomb
1 commune with the gods
1 exsanguinate
1 rampant growth
1 life from the loam
1 mulch
1 decree of pain
1 worm harvest
1 restore
1 sins of the past
1 zombie apocalypse
1 regrowth
1 diabolic revelation
1 living death
1 unburial rites
1 Fated Return
1 grisly Salvage
1 MOrtify
1 Grave Pact
1 Haunted Crossroads
1 Dense Foliage
1 Wreath of geists
1 Diabolic Servitude
1 Whip of erebos
1 Fireshrieker
1 Burnished Hart
1 Sol Ring
1 Vedalken Orrery
1 Dark Steel Ingot
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Bonehoard
1 Sword of Vengeance
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Mosswort Bridge
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Temple of the false god
1 Selesnya Sanctuary
1 Command Tower
1 Rupture Spire
1 Selesnya Guildgate
1 Homeword Path
1 Urbord, tomb of yawgmoth
1 Vivid Marsh
1 Golgari guildgate
3 Plains
8 Forest
6 Swamp
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
Do I have a decent start so far or am I doing pretty terrible at this my first try? lol
If you want to specifically avoid comboes I recommend trying to stay away from Saffi Eriksdotter, Revillark, Triskelion (Mikaeus, the unhallowed can be a superb casual card, unfortunately, he bears the collective combo stigma. I recommend not including just for the hate he recieves), and Survival of the Fittest. In my mind these are the worst offenders and warning signs of imminent combo in a karador deck and will play against the deck far differently than if I did not see any of them.
Not so coincidentally most of those are worth money of some form or another so thats even more incentive to allocate the budget to fund a list that has a more interactive game plan than combo.
Some general guidelines that I have observed from playing against several different versions of karador ranging from very casual to extremely competitive.
1) Regardless of anything else he is excellent at recursion and therefore favors a more grindy game plan where your opponents run out of resources leaving the board open for you to dominate.
2) Cheaper utility creatures are great as they can be played early, sacked/used for chump blocks, and then recurred for value later on.
3) To complement the creature suite some good sweepers and other removal are definitely recommended.
Cards:
I Took a quick look through your list and noticed some absences. I will make a conscious effort to only recommend things that fall below the 2.00USD mark as you mentioned that you were on a budget. EDIT: Many of my recommendations also were recently reprinted or printed so trading should be quite feasible.
It is always good to have between 5 and 10 pieces of spot removal and I only noticed Mortify so:
-Swords to Plowshares
-Go for the Throat
-Putrefy
-Return to Dust
-Relic Crush
Some creatures that I know for a fact karador loves to have around:
-Qasali Pridemage
-Shriekmaw
-Scavenging Ooze (Though this one might be expensive)
-Wood Elves
Board sweeps are great for karador, Alongside decree of pain I recommend picking up:
-Merciless Eviction
-Planar Cleansing
-There are multitudes of other white sweepers that are quite cheap. I would not go above 5 total however.
Land:
I only see 30 lands plus 2-3 pieces of ramp. I would definitely recommend trying to get that number up to 35 and then perhaps considering some more green ramp as it is cheap money wise and easy mana fixing.
GUGEdric, Spymaster of Trest - Elfball
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic- Doomsday!
RWUEphara, God of the Polis - Blink + Control
GBGGlissa, the Traitor - Stax & Lands
URGMaelstrom Wanderer - Goodstuff RUG
RGWMayael the Anima - Timmy
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher - The One Hit Wonder
RGWMarath, Will of the Wild - Old-school Enchantress Hate
RWRAurelia, the Warleader - Equipment Aggro
GGGReki, the History of Kamigawa - Legends + Banding
UBRSedris, the Traitor King - Creatures with
BUBPhenax, God of Deception - Mill
*Sidenote, I specifically excluded infinite combos from all these decks with the exception of Marath and the squirrel nest + Earthcraft combo.
Looking for something Aggressive in modern? Try - BR Aggro
1 wight of precinct six
1 sakura-tribe scout
1 kalonian tusker
1 terastodon
1 borderland ranger
1 kroshan tusker
1 magister of worth
1 predator ooze
1 strangleroot geist
1 withered wretch
1 murder
1 doom blade
1 jarad's orders
1 duress
1 darksteel mutation
1 wrath of god
1 ultimate price
1 annihilate
1 druidic satchel
Cards over 2 dollars are not a problem to recommend because if they seem like the right card then it will be worth getting it. I am just not really looking to buy all the 20 dollar cards haha
Wrath effects are somewhat asymmetrical for Karador so I like Wrath of God (and Day of Judgment, Damnation is probably over budget).
Phyrexian Arena is a great card. Play it. Jarad's Orders is solid for Karador. It's essentially the same as two Demonic Tutors stapled together (since you mostly just want to tutor creatures). I also like Eladamri's Call. And Fauna Shaman
Like others have said, increase you lands. Probably at least to 35. Consider more artifact ramp. Definitely play at least 2 of the following:
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
Truthfully, I've found that I really want basics and cards with the Forest type. I run a fair number of non-basics in my build, but I have a fair number of dorks who fetch me land, and they're almost always basics. So long as you can get a couple in your opening hand and some recursion you're not going to need to rely on weird lands to smooth out your mana. Basics also make Hermit Druid much better and helps prevent overextending.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
Cryogen can you tell me some of the combo cards that you use and exactly how they work? I am kind of new so I dont always get how to set them off.
Also what do yall think about Mimeoplasm? I have one of those as well. He seems like he is less combo-ey then Karador right? Think I can start converting some of the cards in this deck into a deck for him? If thats the case maybe ill make Karador more combo style and Mimeoplasm for a non-combo style deck.
One of the hardest things for me is deciding what cards to take out. Should I take out cards that tend to shove stuff into my graveyard? Like dredge and what not ones? It seems like 50% of the time I play my graveyard gets wiped and it ends up being bad for me.