I shelved Oloro a few months after I bought the precon, but I decided to break him out again recently. I decided to make the infamous AdNaus deck - although this is a very different take on it. No one that I know of - and I looked for ideas on the forums - uses sickening dreams as a wincon, and as far as they go, it's pretty baller. Here's the deck:
While AdNaus is the main wincon, and the name of the deck, the actual most important piece is sickening dreams. I'll show the combos for those who haven't seen them before.
Basically, the gameplan is to tutor up AdNaus ASAP. This might be slightly slower then some AdNaus decks out there becase I lack some high-end tutors ($$$), but I still usually get it quick. I can dig really deep with it thanks to my low curve and lifegain. I'm trying to find sickening dreams and then either angel's grace, intervention pact, or glacial chasm. I then dump enough cards to kill the table while staying immune to the damage myself. If I don't want to worry about dreams being my last card, I have a lot of ways to tutor it up. In addition, I have a lot of lifegain that works better after AdNaus goes off - say martyr of Sands and ivory tower. This deck has no serious way to win without dreams. I can get a lot of cards - enough to dreams out and kill the table without AdNaus - necropotence but without dreams we are dead in the water. That is the stand-out combo piece that must be protected at all costs.
In my experience with it, this deck isn't as blisteringly fast as some other "top-tier" combo decks, but trades that for a lot more resiliency. This deck packs a lot of counterspells, and as it progresses I'm just adding more spot removal and cheap counters to protect the combo. There are two other ways to play AdNaus - storm and combo - like LabMan. Storm has an even lower CMC but annoys the heck out of your opponents while you storm out for twenty minutes. This isn't modern. In addition, this deck can protect itself better even if it doesn't on average win quite as fast. Demonic Consultation combos and others are great, and I'd tentatively say middle-ground, as I haven't played that kind of AdNaus deck yet.
Lastly, any suggestions for cuts or cards I missed? I know it needs some work; and there are a lot of Oloro players out there, so what do you think?
If you really want to hyper focus on Ad Naus you have to more aggressively buy into the game plan. That means pretty much cutting everything 5 CMC and higher (with a few exceptions).
I like Dreams as a win con.
When I ran Ad Naus combo my main win con was Laboratory Maniac + Demonic Consultation. Name a card not in my deck with Consultation (exiling my deck) then use a cantrip or something to draw.
Mind Over Matter is one of the few high CMC cards worth playing so I guess you could run Azami, Lady of Scrolls for the LabMan/MoM/Azami combo. But Azami is a little high CMC.
Thanks for the reply! Your list gave me a lot of good ideas. I don't have the cards to run sculptor/top/sight, but I made bunch of changes, some of which I already had done.
I will explain the cuts and edit the decklist later. But these drop my CMC, give me more filtering, and let me retain my wincons. Plus they are a lot more protected.
So, a quick question out there to people who play this deck. First off, I don't have stuff like imperial seal and v-tutor, and JTMS and the big mox were hard enough to force myself to buy. So basically, I can't get any of the other big money tutors, but are cantrips like thought scour, peek, breakthrough, cremate, and fleeting distraction worth playing? Some are better than others, but anything CMC 1 that says "draw a card" is something I'm looking at slotting up, to be more budget.
So, a quick question out there to people who play this deck. First off, I don't have stuff like imperial seal and v-tutor, and JTMS and the big mox were hard enough to force myself to buy. So basically, I can't get any of the other big money tutors, but are cantrips like thought scour, peek, breakthrough, cremate, and fleeting distraction worth playing? Some are better than others, but anything CMC 1 that says "draw a card" is something I'm looking at slotting up, to be more budget.
I love 1 CMC cantrips. As long as the added effect is worth playing. The deck manipulation ones (Preordain, Ponder, Brainstorm, Serum Visions, Opt) are the best. Closely followed by stuff like Peek and Gitaxian Probe. Stuff like Cremate and some of the others you mentioned are boundary pushers. Good but only as placeholders for better options.
Out - 1 basic land of each type. My curve is low enough that at this point I want to run 34 and see what happens. If I get screwed too much (doubtful) then I'll put some back in.
Also, should the inf. mana alternate wincons go out? I don't know if I'll be as consistent with winning then, but I should still be able to find the necessary pieces. Thoughts?
Out - 1 basic land of each type. My curve is low enough that at this point I want to run 34 and see what happens. If I get screwed too much (doubtful) then I'll put some back in.
Also, should the inf. mana alternate wincons go out? I don't know if I'll be as consistent with winning then, but I should still be able to find the necessary pieces. Thoughts?
The thing about Ad Naus combo is that it's an all in thought process. So often it's best to only run one win condition. You resolve Ad Naus and either get the cards you need for that win or cards to grab those cards.
It's biggest weakness is it's susceptibility to disruption. If they counter Ad Naus and you can't recur it quickly (or it's Dissipated) then you've likely lost. If they hit you with Sadistic Sacrament or Jester's Cap you've likely lost.
The problem is that it's hard to minimize the risks of the weakness without neutering the whole game plan. So what most people do is just focus on the one win condition (2-3 cards at most) and making the rest of the deck entirely about casting Ad Naus as insanely fast as possible. It isn't rare to see Ad Naus decks that have the potential for turn 0 and turn 1 wins. Many have several ways of winning turn 1. Most start becoming consistently viable turns 2-4.
Long story short...it might be best to focus on one win condition that uses as few cards as possible.
Just lowering the curve and getting more protection. I don't know how competitive the deck is right now, testing seems good though, but I'd love some feedback.
6 Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
Instants: 34
4 Mystical Teachings
1 Dizzy Spell
2 Negate
2 Shred Memory
2 Azorius Charm
2 Daze
4 Foil
5 Ad Nauseam
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Angel's Grace
1 Dispel
2 Mana Leak
3 Dissipate
3 Faerie Trickery
3 Render Silent
2 Lim-Dul's Vault
1 Brainstorm
0 Intervention Pact
0 Pact of Negation
3 Hinder
3 Spell Crumple
3 Dromar's Charm
1 Dark Ritual
1 Quicken
1 Cremate
2 Think Twice
1 Visions of Beyond
2 Muddle the Mixture
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Path to Exile
1 Spell Pierce
1 Swan Song
2 Remand
2 Impulse
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
2 Sickening Dreams
2 Demonic Tutor
4 Diabolic Tutor
4 Supreme Verdict
1 Sleight of Hand
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Serum Visions
Artifacts: 13
0 Mox Opal
1 Expedition Map
1 Ivory Tower
1 Sol Ring
2 Azorius Signet
2 Dimir Signet
2 Orzhov Signet
3 Azorius Keyrune
3 Dimir Keyrune
3 Orzhov Keyrune
0 Lotus Bloom
0 Lotus Petal
0 Chrome Mox
Planeswalkers: 2
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Jace Beleren
Creatures: 6
2 Grand Abolisher
5 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
2 Augur of Bolas
1 Martyr of Sands
2 Wall of Omens
3 Wall of Denial
3 Necropotence
3 Rhystic Study
Lands: 33
0 Tolaria West
0 Glacial Chasm
0 Reliquary Tower
0 Watery Grave
0 Godless Shrine
0 Hallowed Fountain
0 Mystic Gate
0 Sunken Ruins
0 Fetid Heath
0 Drowned Catacomb
0 Isolated Chapel
0 Glacial Fortress
0 Caves of Koilos
0 Adarkar Wastes
0 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
0 Ancient Tomb
0 Ancient Den
0 Vault of Whispers
0 Seat of the Synod
0 Underground River
5 Island
4 Swamp
4 Plains
While AdNaus is the main wincon, and the name of the deck, the actual most important piece is sickening dreams. I'll show the combos for those who haven't seen them before.
Basically, the gameplan is to tutor up AdNaus ASAP. This might be slightly slower then some AdNaus decks out there becase I lack some high-end tutors ($$$), but I still usually get it quick. I can dig really deep with it thanks to my low curve and lifegain. I'm trying to find sickening dreams and then either angel's grace, intervention pact, or glacial chasm. I then dump enough cards to kill the table while staying immune to the damage myself. If I don't want to worry about dreams being my last card, I have a lot of ways to tutor it up. In addition, I have a lot of lifegain that works better after AdNaus goes off - say martyr of Sands and ivory tower. This deck has no serious way to win without dreams. I can get a lot of cards - enough to dreams out and kill the table without AdNaus - necropotence but without dreams we are dead in the water. That is the stand-out combo piece that must be protected at all costs.
In my experience with it, this deck isn't as blisteringly fast as some other "top-tier" combo decks, but trades that for a lot more resiliency. This deck packs a lot of counterspells, and as it progresses I'm just adding more spot removal and cheap counters to protect the combo. There are two other ways to play AdNaus - storm and combo - like LabMan. Storm has an even lower CMC but annoys the heck out of your opponents while you storm out for twenty minutes. This isn't modern. In addition, this deck can protect itself better even if it doesn't on average win quite as fast. Demonic Consultation combos and others are great, and I'd tentatively say middle-ground, as I haven't played that kind of AdNaus deck yet.
Lastly, any suggestions for cuts or cards I missed? I know it needs some work; and there are a lot of Oloro players out there, so what do you think?
:symr::symu::symb:Nicol Bolas Control: symr::symu::symb:
:symr::symg:Ruric Thar, the Unbowed Beatdown :gruul::symgr:
:symg::symb::symw:Karador, Ghost Chieftain Recursion Control :symw::symb::symg:
I like Dreams as a win con.
When I ran Ad Naus combo my main win con was Laboratory Maniac + Demonic Consultation. Name a card not in my deck with Consultation (exiling my deck) then use a cantrip or something to draw.
Mind Over Matter is one of the few high CMC cards worth playing so I guess you could run Azami, Lady of Scrolls for the LabMan/MoM/Azami combo. But Azami is a little high CMC.
And there is always Doomsday.
For reference this is essentially what I ran when I was Ad Naus:
6 Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
Creatures (9):
2 Gilded Drake
2 Grand Abolisher
2 Etherium Sculptor
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Laboratory Maniac
4 Venser, Shaper Savant
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Glen Elendra Archmage
5 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Enchantments (4):
1 Land Tax
3 Necropotence
5 Future Sight
6 Mind Over Matter
Instants (29):
0 Pact of Negation
1 Dark Ritual
1 Brainstorm
1 Peek
1 Swan Song
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Path to Exile
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Dispel
1 Spell Pierce
2 Shred Memory
2 Counterspell
2 Mana Drain
2 Muddle the Mixture
2 Memory Lapse
2 Remand
2 Cyclonic Rift
3 Sphinx's Revelation
3 Oblation
3 Faerie Trickery
3 Forbid
3 Hinder
3 Spell Crumple
4 Return to Dust
5 Force of Will
5 Ad Nauseam
1 Ponder
1 Serum Visions
1 Preordain
2 Demonic Tutor
3 Cruel Tutor
3 Beseech the Queen
3 Yawgoth's Will
3 Vindicate
4x Debt to the Deathless
Artifacts (14):
0 Mana Crypt
0 Mox Diamond
0 Mox Opal
0 Chrome Mox
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Dimir Signet
2 Azorius Signet
2 Orzhov Signet
2 Fellwar Stone
3 Chromatic Lantern
4 Thran Dynamo
5 Gilded Lotus
Lands (34):
1 Plains
3 Swamp
4 Island
1 Mystic Gate
1 Tainted Isle
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Tolaria West
1 Underground Sea
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Temple of the False God
1 Command Tower
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Scrubland
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Nimbus Maze
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Watery Grave
1 Tundra
1 Arcane Sanctum
1 Godless Shrine
1 Vesuva
1 Polluted Delta
1 Windswept Heath
1 Flooded Strand
1 Ancient Tomb
If I were to go back to that game plan there would be some significant changes but the main shell of about 50 cards would stay intact.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
In:
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
0 Mox Opal
1 Serum Visions
2 Impulse
2 Remand
1 Spell Pierce
1 Swan Song
1 Gitaxian Probe
4 Mindbreak Trap
0 Ancient Tomb
0 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
4 Fact or Fiction
0 Seat of the Synod
0 Vault of Whispers
0 Ancient Den
3 Stoic Rebuttal
Out:
4 Duskmantle Seer
6 Felidar Sovereign
4 Leyline of Anticipation
7 Fated Retribution
3 Ghostly Prison
3 Propaganda
5 Diabolic Revelation
4 Silence the Believers
6 Consecrated Sphinx
2 Plains
3 Swamp
3 Island
I will explain the cuts and edit the decklist later. But these drop my CMC, give me more filtering, and let me retain my wincons. Plus they are a lot more protected.
:symr::symu::symb:Nicol Bolas Control: symr::symu::symb:
:symr::symg:Ruric Thar, the Unbowed Beatdown :gruul::symgr:
:symg::symb::symw:Karador, Ghost Chieftain Recursion Control :symw::symb::symg:
In:
1 Sleight of Hand
0 Chrome Mox
1 Quicken
2 Think Twice
1 Visions of Beyond
Out:
3 Trinisphere
2 Torpor Orb
4 Dismiss
4 Return to Dust
0 Plains
So, a quick question out there to people who play this deck. First off, I don't have stuff like imperial seal and v-tutor, and JTMS and the big mox were hard enough to force myself to buy. So basically, I can't get any of the other big money tutors, but are cantrips like thought scour, peek, breakthrough, cremate, and fleeting distraction worth playing? Some are better than others, but anything CMC 1 that says "draw a card" is something I'm looking at slotting up, to be more budget.
:symr::symu::symb:Nicol Bolas Control: symr::symu::symb:
:symr::symg:Ruric Thar, the Unbowed Beatdown :gruul::symgr:
:symg::symb::symw:Karador, Ghost Chieftain Recursion Control :symw::symb::symg:
I love 1 CMC cantrips. As long as the added effect is worth playing. The deck manipulation ones (Preordain, Ponder, Brainstorm, Serum Visions, Opt) are the best. Closely followed by stuff like Peek and Gitaxian Probe. Stuff like Cremate and some of the others you mentioned are boundary pushers. Good but only as placeholders for better options.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
I would only be playing this deck in slightly more cutthroat metas, so cremate could answer an early reanimation, and draw.
I just realized I read breakthrough is trash - I read that wrong.
Fleeting distraction will only gain me a life, which isn't much, so that one will be a hard sell I suppose.
But as always, I live for feedback. Thanks!
:symr::symu::symb:Nicol Bolas Control: symr::symu::symb:
:symr::symg:Ruric Thar, the Unbowed Beatdown :gruul::symgr:
:symg::symb::symw:Karador, Ghost Chieftain Recursion Control :symw::symb::symg:
Adding some more digs and tutors now, I think that's all I'm missing.
2 Augur of Bolas
6 Beseech the Queen
1 Cremate
Out - 1 basic land of each type. My curve is low enough that at this point I want to run 34 and see what happens. If I get screwed too much (doubtful) then I'll put some back in.
Also, should the inf. mana alternate wincons go out? I don't know if I'll be as consistent with winning then, but I should still be able to find the necessary pieces. Thoughts?
:symr::symu::symb:Nicol Bolas Control: symr::symu::symb:
:symr::symg:Ruric Thar, the Unbowed Beatdown :gruul::symgr:
:symg::symb::symw:Karador, Ghost Chieftain Recursion Control :symw::symb::symg:
The thing about Ad Naus combo is that it's an all in thought process. So often it's best to only run one win condition. You resolve Ad Naus and either get the cards you need for that win or cards to grab those cards.
It's biggest weakness is it's susceptibility to disruption. If they counter Ad Naus and you can't recur it quickly (or it's Dissipated) then you've likely lost. If they hit you with Sadistic Sacrament or Jester's Cap you've likely lost.
The problem is that it's hard to minimize the risks of the weakness without neutering the whole game plan. So what most people do is just focus on the one win condition (2-3 cards at most) and making the rest of the deck entirely about casting Ad Naus as insanely fast as possible. It isn't rare to see Ad Naus decks that have the potential for turn 0 and turn 1 wins. Many have several ways of winning turn 1. Most start becoming consistently viable turns 2-4.
Long story short...it might be best to focus on one win condition that uses as few cards as possible.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
Also, please keep suggestions to a modest budget - I don't have vampiric tutor. I probably never will.
:symr::symu::symb:Nicol Bolas Control: symr::symu::symb:
:symr::symg:Ruric Thar, the Unbowed Beatdown :gruul::symgr:
:symg::symb::symw:Karador, Ghost Chieftain Recursion Control :symw::symb::symg:
In:
1 Expedition Map
2 Shred Memory
2 Azorius Charm
2 Wall of Omens
3 Wall of Denial
4 Foil
2 Daze
1 Dizzy Spell
3 Jace Beleren
1 Ivory Tower
1 Martyr of Sands
Out:
3 Rings of Brighthearth
3 Basalt Monolith
3 Blue Sun's Zenith
3 Sphinx's Revelation
3 Perplex
4 Mindbreak Trap
3 Stoic Rebuttal
6 Terminus
6 Beseech the Queen
2 Revoke Existence
0 Island
So, lowering the curve. Again. I'll explain the current decklist - all of the cards actually - when I get the chance.
:symr::symu::symb:Nicol Bolas Control: symr::symu::symb:
:symr::symg:Ruric Thar, the Unbowed Beatdown :gruul::symgr:
:symg::symb::symw:Karador, Ghost Chieftain Recursion Control :symw::symb::symg:
I have been thinking about aura of silence though, as removal on demand and 1-way stax. It's just a great card.
:symr::symu::symb:Nicol Bolas Control: symr::symu::symb:
:symr::symg:Ruric Thar, the Unbowed Beatdown :gruul::symgr:
:symg::symb::symw:Karador, Ghost Chieftain Recursion Control :symw::symb::symg:
Out:
Increasing Ambition
Fact or Fiction
Tezzeret the Seeker (on a trial basis, I like him a lot but the CMC's a little high and I don't need his tutor as much now)
In:
Negate
Island
Plains
Just lowering the curve and getting more protection. I don't know how competitive the deck is right now, testing seems good though, but I'd love some feedback.
:symr::symu::symb:Nicol Bolas Control: symr::symu::symb:
:symr::symg:Ruric Thar, the Unbowed Beatdown :gruul::symgr:
:symg::symb::symw:Karador, Ghost Chieftain Recursion Control :symw::symb::symg: