Hi! I'm feeling my way through a Jalira deck. The idea seems fun to me so this deck is what's getting my attention these days. Right now it's still fairly budget (not sure the total amount yet as it's using some M15 cards; shouldn't be more than 90-ish USD) as I enjoy both saving money and seeing what I can manage with a weaker deck.
What I hope it develops into is a fun casual deck that hits the random button as it digs through its deck. Scrying tries to rig the deck, counterspells for protection and my meta has weak hard control at the moment, and a mix of small creatures to blast that will hopefully turn into big'uns. The mana potential isn't fantastic as I don't like relying on doublers. Hardcasting the big creatures is a great idea but I'm still trying to get away more with hitting random creatures via my general. This may change in the future but for now I just want to spin the wheel of fish as much as I can. Scroll Rack is the expensive card I'm allowing myself given its potential here. Otherwise I'm hoping to keep costs down. I'm not (currently, at least) interested in turning this into whatever hard combo can be achieved with this general.
I was pretty consistently sad to see the vanilla/vanilla-ish 0 and 1 drops after turn 5 so I'm testing token generators instead. I upped the mana rock count to help compensate for the slower pace the generators will demand. The higher/resource intensive counterspells are gone; I may need to put more back later but right now I'm more concerned about seeing how to get my plan to function. I'm staying budget but I still want to give the deck a fighter's chance in a real game.
I'm interested in mixing in more ETB effects for my disposable creatures. The balance between small and large creatures is something I'm still figuring out, though. Caged Sun will probably make it in sooner or later but first I want to see what kind of mana situations I get into with what I have.
If you want to make Jalira powerful, I think the way to go about it is to let all the creature cards in the deck be bombs that you're trying to polymorph into, and then try to add a good number of sources for creatures to sacrifice that aren't actually creature cards. I'm talking manlands, token generators, living weapons (Flayer Husk) and ways to steal creatures (Vedalken Shackles, Gather Specimens). That way you'll hit a huge creature every time you activate Jalira.
Maybe it doesn't fulfill the fishy fun factor you're looking for, but I'm throwing it out there since I've given Jalira some thought myself.
Also, since you're building a deck around the polymorph mechanic, you really should add Polymorph and Mass Polymorph to the deck for redundancy since generals tend to get killed.
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When I hit my 3000 post mark, I'm gone for good.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
If you want to make Jalira powerful, I think the way to go about it is to let all the creature cards in the deck be bombs that you're trying to polymorph into, and then try to add a good number of sources for creatures to sacrifice that aren't actually creature cards. I'm talking manlands, token generators, living weapons (Flayer Husk) and ways to steal creatures (Vedalken Shackles, Gather Specimens). That way you'll hit a huge creature every time you activate Jalira.
Maybe it doesn't fulfill the fishy fun factor you're looking for, but I'm throwing it out there since I've given Jalira some thought myself.
Also, since you're building a deck around the polymorph mechanic, you really should add Polymorph and Mass Polymorph to the deck for redundancy since generals tend to get killed.
See, these are the things I'm trying to figure out as I go through the ideas I have. There are a few concepts I want to make my way through as I play things out and while I'm pretty sure I know what's going to be more effective I'm not sure what I'm going to like more yet.
1) Go for generic value in creatures great and small. The effects are random but always have positive utility.
This is basically what I'm fiddling with right now. I'm enjoying it but will be tempted away by the other ideas soon.
I'm not sure where I'm going to end but I want to test them all out to some extent over time. I like elements of all of them: 1's randomness, 2's use of merfolk and straightforward win conditions, 3's ability to smash face efficiently, 4's reactive nature, 5's potential to be good in more environments, and 6's bizarre nature.
See, that's the thing. As worthwhile as some of the deck concepts I have going are I like utility creatures and they have no place in some of these lists.
That's what I'm already loving about this deck, though. Usually I have a clear vision with what I want to do with a general but this woman's got enough potential that I'm enjoying myself just seeing where the ideas go. I like this game sometimes.
If you want to make Jalira powerful, I think the way to go about it is to let all the creature cards in the deck be bombs that you're trying to polymorph into, and then try to add a good number of sources for creatures to sacrifice that aren't actually creature cards. I'm talking manlands, token generators, living weapons (Flayer Husk) and ways to steal creatures (Vedalken Shackles, Gather Specimens). That way you'll hit a huge creature every time you activate Jalira.
Maybe it doesn't fulfill the fishy fun factor you're looking for, but I'm throwing it out there since I've given Jalira some thought myself.
Also, since you're building a deck around the polymorph mechanic, you really should add Polymorph and Mass Polymorph to the deck for redundancy since generals tend to get killed.
Now back to being serious, I too was thinking she was finally a good excuse to dig out all the big dumb blue fish from over the years. Keeping an eye on this, and I hope it works out for you.
Thr real question is if cheating out these fatties as a gameplan is a powerful enough objective for an EDH deck. Does a turn four/five Ulamog/Inkwell Leviathan win games in a format riddled with board wipes and infinite combos? It's an honest question, not a rhetorical one, I have limited experiende with EDH.
It looks unquestionably fun though!
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When I hit my 3000 post mark, I'm gone for good.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Thr real question is if cheating out these fatties as a gameplan is a powerful enough objective for an EDH deck. Does a turn four/five Ulamog/Inkwell Leviathan win games in a format riddled with board wipes and infinite combos? It's an honest question, not a rhetorical one, I have limited experiende with EDH.
It looks unquestionably fun though!
Honestly? No. By itself, that Inkwell/whatever probably isn't going to carry the load unless it's a Blightsteel Colossus. You'll need a few activations and control elements followed by bounce finishers (Cyclonic Rift, Sunder, etc.) to help those creatures go the distance.
I need to do more testing but I usually only play on the weekends. I'm going to start tinkering with shell ideas for all of the deck types I listed a few posts above. Jalira makes me feel ambitious; I really do intend to playtest all these concepts given time. For the first time since I started this format I have a general I want to sink my teeth into deep. It'll probably take me quite a long time but I like that I know where I'm going.
Thr real question is if cheating out these fatties as a gameplan is a powerful enough objective for an EDH deck. Does a turn four/five Ulamog/Inkwell Leviathan win games in a format riddled with board wipes and infinite combos? It's an honest question, not a rhetorical one, I have limited experiende with EDH.
It looks unquestionably fun though!
Honestly? No. By itself, that Inkwell/whatever probably isn't going to carry the load unless it's a Blightsteel Colossus. You'll need a few activations and control elements followed by bounce finishers (Cyclonic Rift, Sunder, etc.) to help those creatures go the distance.
I need to do more testing but I usually only play on the weekends. I'm going to start tinkering with shell ideas for all of the deck types I listed a few posts above. Jalira makes me feel ambitious; I really do intend to playtest all these concepts given time. For the first time since I started this format I have a general I want to sink my teeth into deep. It'll probably take me quite a long time but I like that I know where I'm going.
Go for it man, keep working with it and it's going to be good. I hope you make a primer someday.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When I hit my 3000 post mark, I'm gone for good.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Thr real question is if cheating out these fatties as a gameplan is a powerful enough objective for an EDH deck. Does a turn four/five Ulamog/Inkwell Leviathan win games in a format riddled with board wipes and infinite combos? It's an honest question, not a rhetorical one, I have limited experiende with EDH.
It looks unquestionably fun though!
Honestly? No. By itself, that Inkwell/whatever probably isn't going to carry the load unless it's a Blightsteel Colossus. You'll need a few activations and control elements followed by bounce finishers (Cyclonic Rift, Sunder, etc.) to help those creatures go the distance.
I need to do more testing but I usually only play on the weekends. I'm going to start tinkering with shell ideas for all of the deck types I listed a few posts above. Jalira makes me feel ambitious; I really do intend to playtest all these concepts given time. For the first time since I started this format I have a general I want to sink my teeth into deep. It'll probably take me quite a long time but I like that I know where I'm going.
Go for it man, keep working with it and it's going to be good. I hope you make a primer someday.
That's basically the same strategy Jhoria of the Ghitu decks use. Destroy everything and play an unstoppable creature. It's especially deadly because Eldrazi can eat up any post-wrath lands. Some possible additions:
Braids, Conjurer Adept - Cheats in fatties, but works for all players. Springjack Pasture - Colorless mana won't really hurt your deck Whelming Wave - If you want to go with a theme Thassa, God of the Sea - She won't disrupt your Polymorph because she's legendary, but you seem to have a lot of scry creatures and she scrys every turn. Plus, unblockable dudes is a plus. Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur - If you want to be really, really mean Halimar Depths - Free psuedo-scry Thropter Assembly - A decent polymorph target that makes tokens Wash Out - Can work like Cyclonic Rift
So I had some fun games yesterday where the deck did pretty well in a well-built but largely casual environment. I need to keep tweaking it, though, as the essence of the deck as it is still relies on random value. I've started cooking up a list for a merfolk-based shell but it's not ready to test and I'm not ready to put down this first idea I have yet anyway.
Most if not all of those are suggestions from this thread, so thank you all! There are a few cards that were suggested that I think are good but the time for them isn't quite yet. Genesis Chamber: Right now I don't feel comfortable giving other players any kind of a freebie. The token generators I have seem to be fitting the bill well enough for the uncomplicated board I tend to wind up with. When I try the merfolk variant and I can flood the field with creatures this is going right in. It'll also be great for... Mass Polymorph: Currently I can't pump out enough creatures to make this worthwhile. This form of the deck has a lower on-field creature count and I like the way that's working so far. This will be better in the merfolk version when that gets ready to test.
Other token generators: I'm still figuring out the balance between tokens and targets. Master of Waves and Cloudseeder seem interesting.
Other legends: I like Azami and Ertai. This deck burns through just about every scrap of mana it has available (or it's not doing anything and is sad) so I need to get a handle on that before I can commit that kind of mana to utility. Azami will get tested sooner or later though since she can force tap Jalira. Ertai's hungrier but is on the list if I need to tilt towards more control.
I'm not totally decided on what will get bumped for the cards I'm testing but some bundle of cards will get bumped and then I'll update the main post.
@wingkon: In the two games yesterday that Myr Battlesphere came into play it either directly or indirectly led to me winning. Value suggestion!
I really like where you're taking this deck so far one question I know has been raised, but I think still merits asking, is the creature count. In the games you've been playing, have you been satisfied with the count in the deck as it stands? Have you been able to consistently polymorph for the things you need when you need them, or have you had a lot of morphs that have come up short?
Once again though, I really like where you're trying to take this taking this. To me, I think the success of a deck like this is how efficient you can make it. Best of luck in future games!
The deck I'm running runs 2 creatures. Deadeye Navigator and Palincron. The rest being protection and whatever else. You tutor one up eot and go infinite when you untap. It's much more consistent than Azami when it comes to comboing off, but it's also not that resilient.
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What I hope it develops into is a fun casual deck that hits the random button as it digs through its deck. Scrying tries to rig the deck, counterspells for protection and my meta has weak hard control at the moment, and a mix of small creatures to blast that will hopefully turn into big'uns. The mana potential isn't fantastic as I don't like relying on doublers. Hardcasting the big creatures is a great idea but I'm still trying to get away more with hitting random creatures via my general. This may change in the future but for now I just want to spin the wheel of fish as much as I can. Scroll Rack is the expensive card I'm allowing myself given its potential here. Otherwise I'm hoping to keep costs down. I'm not (currently, at least) interested in turning this into whatever hard combo can be achieved with this general.
4 Jalira, Master Polymorphist
Creatures (21)
1 Jace's Phantasm
1 Sage of Epityr
1 Vortex Elemental
2 Augury Owl
2 Omenspeaker
2 Sigiled Starfish
3 Chasm Skulker
3 Coral Barrier
4 Solemn Simulacrum
5 Prognostic Sphinx
6 Guile
6 Sphinx of Magosi
6 Steel Hellkite
7 Myr Battlesphere
7 Scourge of Fleets
8 Stormtide Leviathan
8 Ulamog's Crusher
9 Artisan of Kozilek
9 Inkwell Leviathan
10 Deep-Sea Kraken
11 Pathrazer of Ulamog
1 Preordain
2 See Beyond
3 Dream Cache
3 Fabricate
Land (38)
38 Island
Enchantments (1)
1 Soothsaying
Instant (15)
1 Brainstorm
2 Arcane Denial
2 Counterspell
2 Cyclonic Rift
2 Voyage's End
3 Dissipate
3 Dissolve
3 Dream Fracture
3 Faerie Trickery
3 Forbid
3 Polymorphist's Jest
3 Thirst For Knowledge
5 Ætherspouts
5 Evacuation
5 Sunder
1 Sol Ring
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
2 Armillary Sphere
2 Fellwar Stone
2 Illusionist's Bracers
2 Lightning Greaves
2 Mind Stone
2 Scroll Rack
2 Sky Diamond
2 Star Compass
2 Swiftfoot Boots
2 Thornbite Staff
3 Crystal Ball
3 Druidic Satchel
3 Nuisance Engine
3 Sarpadian Empires, Vol. VII
3 Strata Scythe
4 Acorn Catapult
4 Throne of Empires
4 Trading Post
Changes:
1.1
OutCloud Sprite, Dakra Mystic, Deep Analysis, Deprive, Dismal Failure, Dismiss, Flying Men, Freed From the Real, Interpret the Signs, Kraken of the Straits, Maelstrom Djinn, Memnite, Myr Mindservant, Mystic Speculation, Oracle's Insight, Ornithopter, Prescient Chimera, Rewind, Shield Sphere, Wandering Ones
In
Explanation
Acorn Catapult, Aetherspouts, Chasm Skulker, Coral Barrier, Druidic Satchel, Fellwar Stone, Illusionist's Bracers, Myr Battlesphere, Nuisance Engine, Polymorphist's Jest, Sarpadian Empires, Vol. VII, Sky Diamond, Star Compass, Steel Hellkite, Thirst for Knowledge, Thornbite Staff, Throne of Empires, Trading Post, Ulamog's Crusher, Wayfarer's Bauble
I was pretty consistently sad to see the vanilla/vanilla-ish 0 and 1 drops after turn 5 so I'm testing token generators instead. I upped the mana rock count to help compensate for the slower pace the generators will demand. The higher/resource intensive counterspells are gone; I may need to put more back later but right now I'm more concerned about seeing how to get my plan to function. I'm staying budget but I still want to give the deck a fighter's chance in a real game.
Current potentials:
Polar Kraken, Freed From the Real, Homarid Spawning Bed, Caged Sun, Aven Fisher, Cloud of Faeries, False Demise, Fate Foretold, Fool's Demise, Merfolk Traders, Murder of Crows, River Kelpie, Sage Owl, Spire Owl, Vodalian Merchant, Whirlpool Rider
I'm interested in mixing in more ETB effects for my disposable creatures. The balance between small and large creatures is something I'm still figuring out, though. Caged Sun will probably make it in sooner or later but first I want to see what kind of mana situations I get into with what I have.
RGGruul Aggro
WSoul Sisters
WBTokens
BUGRRestore Balance
BMono-Black Infect
EDH:
RGWMayael, the Anima
GWURoon of the Hidden Realm
BDrana, Kalastria Bloodchief
I really like this idea, thank you. I'm trying to get more value out of the targets I have and this should fit that bill well.
Maybe it doesn't fulfill the fishy fun factor you're looking for, but I'm throwing it out there since I've given Jalira some thought myself.
Also, since you're building a deck around the polymorph mechanic, you really should add Polymorph and Mass Polymorph to the deck for redundancy since generals tend to get killed.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
See, these are the things I'm trying to figure out as I go through the ideas I have. There are a few concepts I want to make my way through as I play things out and while I'm pretty sure I know what's going to be more effective I'm not sure what I'm going to like more yet.
1) Go for generic value in creatures great and small. The effects are random but always have positive utility.
This is basically what I'm fiddling with right now. I'm enjoying it but will be tempted away by the other ideas soon.
2) Develop a merfolk package to enable control and aggro wincons in Lullmage Mentor and Wanderwine Prophets. This is also an excuse to use Intruder Alarm.
A variant of 1 with a more clear battle strategy but the need for specifically merfolk changes the potential for utility.
3) Go for the biggest creatures available and try to ensure that they're the only things you'll ever spin into.
Probably the most explosive aggro concept, especially against non-token aggro. We can call this The Havrekjex Solution.
4) Soft control that involves more utility in cheaper creatures and clones.
Let the board provide you with resources and spin into ways to get it for yourself.
5) Hard control that ends in mass bounce. Will probably involve creature-based infinite combos.
I may end here but I don't want to start here. Basically 3 but you spin into combos instead of fatties.
6) One or two creatures in the deck and combo off.
Palinchron is the boring but consistent option. Academy Researchers is the flimsy but hilarious option.
I'm not sure where I'm going to end but I want to test them all out to some extent over time. I like elements of all of them: 1's randomness, 2's use of merfolk and straightforward win conditions, 3's ability to smash face efficiently, 4's reactive nature, 5's potential to be good in more environments, and 6's bizarre nature.
See, that's the thing. As worthwhile as some of the deck concepts I have going are I like utility creatures and they have no place in some of these lists.
That's what I'm already loving about this deck, though. Usually I have a clear vision with what I want to do with a general but this woman's got enough potential that I'm enjoying myself just seeing where the ideas go. I like this game sometimes.
Or Proteus Staff for a re-usable Polymorph. Genesis Chamber and Faerie Conclave could help with additional targets.
RGGruul Aggro
WSoul Sisters
WBTokens
BUGRRestore Balance
BMono-Black Infect
EDH:
RGWMayael, the Anima
GWURoon of the Hidden Realm
BDrana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Sorry. I couldn't help it, lol.
Now back to being serious, I too was thinking she was finally a good excuse to dig out all the big dumb blue fish from over the years. Keeping an eye on this, and I hope it works out for you.
..
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
It looks unquestionably fun though!
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
Honestly? No. By itself, that Inkwell/whatever probably isn't going to carry the load unless it's a Blightsteel Colossus. You'll need a few activations and control elements followed by bounce finishers (Cyclonic Rift, Sunder, etc.) to help those creatures go the distance.
I need to do more testing but I usually only play on the weekends. I'm going to start tinkering with shell ideas for all of the deck types I listed a few posts above. Jalira makes me feel ambitious; I really do intend to playtest all these concepts given time. For the first time since I started this format I have a general I want to sink my teeth into deep. It'll probably take me quite a long time but I like that I know where I'm going.
Go for it man, keep working with it and it's going to be good. I hope you make a primer someday.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
That's basically the same strategy Jhoria of the Ghitu decks use. Destroy everything and play an unstoppable creature. It's especially deadly because Eldrazi can eat up any post-wrath lands. Some possible additions:
Braids, Conjurer Adept - Cheats in fatties, but works for all players.
Springjack Pasture - Colorless mana won't really hurt your deck
Whelming Wave - If you want to go with a theme
Thassa, God of the Sea - She won't disrupt your Polymorph because she's legendary, but you seem to have a lot of scry creatures and she scrys every turn. Plus, unblockable dudes is a plus.
Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur - If you want to be really, really mean
Halimar Depths - Free psuedo-scry
Thropter Assembly - A decent polymorph target that makes tokens
Wash Out - Can work like Cyclonic Rift
RGGruul Aggro
WSoul Sisters
WBTokens
BUGRRestore Balance
BMono-Black Infect
EDH:
RGWMayael, the Anima
GWURoon of the Hidden Realm
BDrana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Cards to be tested next:
Caged Sun: Yeah, I need it.
Halimar Depths: Value!
Mimic Vat: Seems like it's a win-win.
Polymorph: Freebie!
Proteus Staff: Freebie! Also tuck!
Springjack Pasture: Goats're nice.
Thassa, God of the Sea: Scrying as a mechanic has already directly led me to victory; I would like more.
Thopter Assembly: Works if I need a beater. Works if I need more tokens.
Wash Out: I really, really rely on bounce to actually gain an advantage.
Most if not all of those are suggestions from this thread, so thank you all! There are a few cards that were suggested that I think are good but the time for them isn't quite yet.
Genesis Chamber: Right now I don't feel comfortable giving other players any kind of a freebie. The token generators I have seem to be fitting the bill well enough for the uncomplicated board I tend to wind up with. When I try the merfolk variant and I can flood the field with creatures this is going right in. It'll also be great for...
Mass Polymorph: Currently I can't pump out enough creatures to make this worthwhile. This form of the deck has a lower on-field creature count and I like the way that's working so far. This will be better in the merfolk version when that gets ready to test.
Other token generators: I'm still figuring out the balance between tokens and targets. Master of Waves and Cloudseeder seem interesting.
Other legends: I like Azami and Ertai. This deck burns through just about every scrap of mana it has available (or it's not doing anything and is sad) so I need to get a handle on that before I can commit that kind of mana to utility. Azami will get tested sooner or later though since she can force tap Jalira. Ertai's hungrier but is on the list if I need to tilt towards more control.
I'm not totally decided on what will get bumped for the cards I'm testing but some bundle of cards will get bumped and then I'll update the main post.
@wingkon: In the two games yesterday that Myr Battlesphere came into play it either directly or indirectly led to me winning. Value suggestion!
Once again though, I really like where you're trying to take this taking this. To me, I think the success of a deck like this is how efficient you can make it. Best of luck in future games!
IRL: Patron of the Moon