Latulla, Keldon Overseer certainly isn't a staple of most EDH metas, nor will it strike fears to your opponent's heart when you sit down. However, Latulla does inspire some creativity in deckbuilding and brings a little diversity to the table. So, why play Latulla over other mono-red control generals like Jaya Ballard, Task Mage? One word: flavor. Yes, this deck is meant to be competitive at the table, but that doesn't mean we need to be locked into one general.
Please feel free to share comments and suggestions.
6/19/14 (yes, some of these removals may be controversial, but I need to see how the deck performs without them)
-1 Price of Glory
-1 Blood Moon (note: with the number of nonbasics we play, and lack of enchantment removal, this can be a problem for us as well as our opponents... Magus stays, enchantment goes)
-1 Smoldering Crater
-1 Gamble (enjoy shooting yourself in the foot? me either! )
+1 Elixir of Immortality
+1 Lightning Greaves
+1 Scrying Sheets
+1 Braid of Fire
Awesome! love Latulla, Keldon Overseer for flavor purposes and art, and it's nice to see someone muster up the commitment to make a deck out of her. How do you feel about mana-doubling/adding and damage-doubling effects? :/
Great suggestions! I had both in my list originally, I just didn't think they did enough (other than the return-ability) to justify a slot. If I find that I'm lacking return-effects in testing, I will probably give the slot to Rekindled Flame.
Awesome! love Latulla, Keldon Overseer for flavor purposes and art, and it's nice to see someone muster up the commitment to make a deck out of her. How do you feel about mana-doubling/adding and damage-doubling effects? :/
Glad you have some love for Latulla too!
I had Dictate of the Twin Gods and Furnace of Rath in my original list, but I noticed other Jaya players cutting them (they had good explanations about not doing enough or not mattering in the end) AND because it doesn't work with Psychosis Crawler which is often a wincon for this deck. Still, both are solid selections and are kept in my Maybeboard stack.
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If someone is playing Icy Manipulator against you, you've already won.
Ooh okay then understood. I'm trying to think of a list with lots of massive land-destruction and disruption and artifact dependence for generating tons of mana to fuel Latulla, Keldon Overseer, but it's still all in my head hehe. Goodluck with your list!
It feels like Latulla's pretty important for the game plan. Stuff like Darksteel Plate would not only protect her from removal, but also if you're splashing damage around a bit?
Yeah, a few equipment cards for protection are always good in mono-red. Lightning Greaves are another potentially good add. I also like Sword o Fire and Ice in mono-red decks.
War's Toll is an enchantment that I love to use to throw off other players (especially control decks). Even better because it doesn't effect you.
But sweet! I love seeing underplayed mono-red generals.
Ooh okay then understood. I'm trying to think of a list with lots of massive land-destruction and disruption and artifact dependence for generating tons of mana to fuel Latulla, Keldon Overseer, but it's still all in my head hehe. Goodluck with your list!
I think the best method is going to be Mana Flare + Extraplanar Lens, but I'm sure you guys in the community have other great ideas too!
It feels like Latulla's pretty important for the game plan. Stuff like Darksteel Plate would not only protect her from removal, but also if you're splashing damage around a bit?
She is, though the deck is built to win without her if we have to. That said, Darksteel Plate and Lightning Greaves are great suggestions!
Yeah, a few equipment cards for protection are always good in mono-red. Lightning Greaves are another potentially good add. I also like Sword o Fire and Ice in mono-red decks.
War's Toll is an enchantment that I love to use to throw off other players (especially control decks). Even better because it doesn't effect you.
But sweet! I love seeing underplayed mono-red generals.
I've thought about Sword of Fire and Ice too... still thinking about if we would get to use it enough with our control plan, or if Greaves/Boots would generally be better if it's just there for protection? Thoughts?
I was able to get a couple of games in with LKO yesterday, and if those games taught me nothing else, it's that Latulla is a blast to play. In the first game, I almost killed everyone turn 5 with Psychosis Crawler, wheel effects & Goblin Welder + Memory Jar, but got stopped short and we all died next turn to combo.
In the second game, I used Bloodfire Colossus with Repercussion to kill one opponent and put the other two to under 5 life. I then played Latulla and killed another player on my next turn. Unfortunately, before I could get to my turn, the only other play alive was able to kill Latulla. However, he forgot to tap down his land at the end of his turn for Citadel of Pain. That was a very interesting way to win, and one I didn't anticipate.
The only cut I'm consider is Price of Glory, because of the huge target it paints on me. I'm also looking at adding Trading Post for a sac outlet, recursion outlet, lifegain, etc. Thoughts?
If you haven't had a chance to play this deck, or one similar, I highly recommend you give Latulla a shot.
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Quote from Galspanic »
If someone is playing Icy Manipulator against you, you've already won.
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Weiss Schwarz Sets
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
I have thought about this a lot, and although it is powerful, the amount of hate it brings usually isn't worth the benefit. I play in a league where destroying a player's mana base is "frowned upon" and nets negative points. Mycosynth Lattice + Artifact Removal means I'm going to destroy your lands, even if that isn't the plan. Liquimetal Coating is a much more "fair" card that people don't seem to hate it as much. However, is that worth a slot in the 99 just for that ability? I don't know and that's something I'd want to test.
For a deck update, I'm looking at removing Vicious Shadows and Price of Glory for Trading Post and Lightning Greaves. I've previously explained why PoG may get the cut, but Vicious Shadows has become a win-more, not usually helping me actually win. Thoughts about these cuts/additions?
Thank you all for your feedback!
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Quote from Galspanic »
If someone is playing Icy Manipulator against you, you've already won.
I was able to get two league games in with Latulla last night, winning both in points. Vicious Shadows and Braid of Fire the all-stars, certainly proving their worth (even if some idiot pilot was about to cut one ). In the first game, Vicious Shadows brought the deck victory lane after facing down a Nath tribal elves player with a full board, a combo player who was ready to go off, and a player with a full board (two Consecrated Sphinx, Ulamog, Prophet of Krufix, etc. etc. with 20+ cards in his hand (who just happened to be tapped out). That's when I played Blasphemous Act with Vicious Shadows out. Game over.
Game two was much slower, but I was grinding out again combo, using Chandra Ablaze's +1 to keep Momir Vig off the table and I eventually won with Vicious Shadows damage, attacking with the "phoenix army" through the air and with a little help from Latulla herself.
The general idea I got my opponents after each game was that the deck was really fun to play against and you never know what's going to happen. I was happy to hear that
Please feel free to share any feedback or questions!
Thanks!
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Quote from Galspanic »
If someone is playing Icy Manipulator against you, you've already won.
Scrying Sheets should absolutely be in this deck, great call!
As for Caged Sun, I specifically chose Extraplanar Lens because of its low mana cost and ease of casting, which is a big benefit here. What would you recommend cutting for Caged Sun?
*note: as noted in the test log, I've run into problems with Blood Moon, especially with the high count of nonbasics we run. Magus of the Moon is much easier to get rid of if I need to, and still provides the effect. Also, Gamble has been very underwhelming in the first 10+ games, and I'm wondering other's thoughts on it. Obviously I need to cut one more card for the listed additions... any suggestions? Thanks!
I know Latulla s not your plan A but still, she can kill if you have the mana, so
i would cut blood moon and put ruination in instead, and i would put all the gauntlets in, as well as the Sculpting Steel. And with Gratuitous Violence, you can double the damage of Latulla twice if she target a Mogg Maniac or a Stuffy Doll...
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Hakim, Loreweaver
Autumn Willow Yomiji, Who Bars the Way
Hanna, Ship's Navigator
Chromium
Skyfire Kirin
Add Rings of Brighthearth to double your damage from Latulla's ability! Add Basalt Monolith for infinite colorless mana for Latulla's ability haha :)))
Being a color with limited options, I'd build a Mono-Red EDH deck to be heavily artifact dependent on mana, have a lot of mass-land destruction and mana-base disruption effects, card draw from artifacts (e.g. Coercive Portal, Staff of Nin) and whatever space remains in the deck will revolve around exploiting Latulla. Just my 2cents.
One thing that I have to work with is that I play in a league where large land destruction will net negative points, so that's why I avoided the mass LD. The reason I don't like Basalt Monolith is that unless you have Rings of Brighthearth out (and remember, we have exactly one 12CMC way to find it ) it's just a worse Mana Vault.
I like the idea of Ruination, though knowing I have to be somewhat careful with the casting time, as wrecking someone's entire manabase will be counterproductive (wrecking their land base is more negative points than winning is positive points).
In all the games I've played with Latulla, I've won with combat damage exactly once (the "Phoenix Army" represent), which is why I'm not running the listed effects. I almost always win with Repercussion/Vicious Shadow effects or through Psychosis Crawler. I think if someone want to go the aggro/attack method with this deck, all of your suggestions would be inclusions.
Mass land destruction is one of the best strategy in magic, and probably one of the few things red is still good at. I cannot understant how its not ok to do so.
Ruination is imo one of the best red card ever printed... in my meta, you can be sure every red deck have one. Blood moon is very good if you dont run the gauntlets effect, but still, destroying those lands are better.
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Hakim, Loreweaver
Autumn Willow Yomiji, Who Bars the Way
Hanna, Ship's Navigator
Chromium
Skyfire Kirin
Mass land destruction is one of the best strategy in magic, and probably one of the few things red is still good at. I cannot understant how its not ok to do so.
Ruination is imo one of the best red card ever printed... in my meta, you can be sure every red deck have one. Blood moon is very good if you dont run the gauntlets effect, but still, destroying those lands are better.
Those are the rules that Armada League established, which are used by all the leagues I play in. Land destruction is generally not liked and not seen as a "valid" strategy. As much as I agree with your points, if I want to be competitive in the leagues I play, it's something I need to generally avoid.
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Quote from Galspanic »
If someone is playing Icy Manipulator against you, you've already won.
I've designed my own list haha :)) 16 mana-rocks, lots of mass-landD and player disruption (especially to blue mages since they're the one you should watch out for)
I've designed my own list haha :)) 16 mana-rocks, lots of mass-landD and player disruption (especially to blue mages since they're the one you should watch out for)
Hey, thanks for your great suggestions!
I think if this deck was really build around Latulla, and not the mono-red control version you see here, Basilisk Collar and Illusionist's Bracers would be a perfect fit! I don't know that they work as well in this version, as it's not really build around Latulla, but more uses her ability when necessary. We have other wincons that we try to get out first before going to the good lady herself.
Deal Broker is certainly an interesting choice for this deck, it doesn't have haste like Mad Prophet, but it's less expensive, has a bigger body and has a better ability. What would you recommend cutting for this card if it were to be included?
Thank you again for your great suggestions!
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If someone is playing Icy Manipulator against you, you've already won.
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1 Latulla, Keldon Overseer
Creature [18]
1 Goblin Welder
1 Viashino Heretic
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Firewing Phoenix
1 Anger
1 Avalanche Riders
1 Barbed Shocker
1 Mad Prophet
1 Psychosis Crawler
1 Shard Phoenix
1 Magma Phoenix
1 Anarchist
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Skarrgan Firebird
1 Knollspine Dragon
1 Bloodfire Colossus
Planeswalker [2]
1 Chandra Ablaze
1 Koth of the Hammer
Enchantment [6]
1 Blood Moon
1 Mana Flare
1 Price of Glory
1 Citadel of Pain
1 Repercussion
1 Mindmoil
1 Vicious Shadows
1 Gamble
1 Vandalblast
1 Winds of Change
1 Faithless Looting
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Wheel of Fate
1 Recoup
1 Molten Psyche
1 Past in Flames
1 Incendiary Command
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Blasphemous Act
Instant [5]
1 Skred
1 Shattering Pulse
1 Reiterate
1 Wild Ricochet
1 Into the Core
Artfiact [19]
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Expedition Map
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Fire Diamond
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Extraplanar Lens
1 Heart of Ramos
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Portcullis
1 Memory Jar
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Mind's Eye
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Staff of Nin
1 Planar Portal
1 Terrain Generator
1 Temple of the False God
1 Urza's Tower
1 Urza's Power Plant
1 Urza's Mine
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Buried Ruin
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Smoldering Crater
1 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Ghost Quarter
24 Snow-Covered Mountain
Test Log
6/19/14 (yes, some of these removals may be controversial, but I need to see how the deck performs without them)
-1 Price of Glory
-1 Blood Moon (note: with the number of nonbasics we play, and lack of enchantment removal, this can be a problem for us as well as our opponents... Magus stays, enchantment goes)
-1 Smoldering Crater
-1 Gamble (enjoy shooting yourself in the foot? me either! )
+1 Elixir of Immortality
+1 Lightning Greaves
+1 Scrying Sheets
+1 Braid of Fire
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Great suggestions! I had both in my list originally, I just didn't think they did enough (other than the return-ability) to justify a slot. If I find that I'm lacking return-effects in testing, I will probably give the slot to Rekindled Flame.
Glad you have some love for Latulla too!
I had Dictate of the Twin Gods and Furnace of Rath in my original list, but I noticed other Jaya players cutting them (they had good explanations about not doing enough or not mattering in the end) AND because it doesn't work with Psychosis Crawler which is often a wincon for this deck. Still, both are solid selections and are kept in my Maybeboard stack.
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
War's Toll is an enchantment that I love to use to throw off other players (especially control decks). Even better because it doesn't effect you.
But sweet! I love seeing underplayed mono-red generals.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
I think the best method is going to be Mana Flare + Extraplanar Lens, but I'm sure you guys in the community have other great ideas too!
She is, though the deck is built to win without her if we have to. That said, Darksteel Plate and Lightning Greaves are great suggestions!
War's Toll is an AWESOME suggestion!!!
I've thought about Sword of Fire and Ice too... still thinking about if we would get to use it enough with our control plan, or if Greaves/Boots would generally be better if it's just there for protection? Thoughts?
Any suggestions on cuts for War's Toll, Darksteel Plate and/or Lightning Greaves?
In the second game, I used Bloodfire Colossus with Repercussion to kill one opponent and put the other two to under 5 life. I then played Latulla and killed another player on my next turn. Unfortunately, before I could get to my turn, the only other play alive was able to kill Latulla. However, he forgot to tap down his land at the end of his turn for Citadel of Pain. That was a very interesting way to win, and one I didn't anticipate.
The only cut I'm consider is Price of Glory, because of the huge target it paints on me. I'm also looking at adding Trading Post for a sac outlet, recursion outlet, lifegain, etc. Thoughts?
If you haven't had a chance to play this deck, or one similar, I highly recommend you give Latulla a shot.
Main Decks
Diaochan, Iroas, God of Victory, Kaalia, Marton, Ulasht, Volrath,
Kaervek, Prossh, Titania
Amusing or Themed
Progenitus
Pauper Guildmages
Azorius Boros Dimir Golgari Gruul Izzet Korozda
Orzhov Rakdos Rix Maadi Selesyna Simic Skarrg Zameck
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Wixoss - Just trial decks for now!
Thanks for the great suggestions!
I have thought about this a lot, and although it is powerful, the amount of hate it brings usually isn't worth the benefit. I play in a league where destroying a player's mana base is "frowned upon" and nets negative points. Mycosynth Lattice + Artifact Removal means I'm going to destroy your lands, even if that isn't the plan. Liquimetal Coating is a much more "fair" card that people don't seem to hate it as much. However, is that worth a slot in the 99 just for that ability? I don't know and that's something I'd want to test.
For a deck update, I'm looking at removing Vicious Shadows and Price of Glory for Trading Post and Lightning Greaves. I've previously explained why PoG may get the cut, but Vicious Shadows has become a win-more, not usually helping me actually win. Thoughts about these cuts/additions?
Thank you all for your feedback!
Game two was much slower, but I was grinding out again combo, using Chandra Ablaze's +1 to keep Momir Vig off the table and I eventually won with Vicious Shadows damage, attacking with the "phoenix army" through the air and with a little help from Latulla herself.
The general idea I got my opponents after each game was that the deck was really fun to play against and you never know what's going to happen. I was happy to hear that
Please feel free to share any feedback or questions!
Thanks!
Also,
Caged Sun
Thanks for the feedback and great suggestions!
Scrying Sheets should absolutely be in this deck, great call!
As for Caged Sun, I specifically chose Extraplanar Lens because of its low mana cost and ease of casting, which is a big benefit here. What would you recommend cutting for Caged Sun?
Thanks again for the feedback!
EDIT:
Here's what I'd like to test:
Add:
Remove:
*note: as noted in the test log, I've run into problems with Blood Moon, especially with the high count of nonbasics we run. Magus of the Moon is much easier to get rid of if I need to, and still provides the effect. Also, Gamble has been very underwhelming in the first 10+ games, and I'm wondering other's thoughts on it. Obviously I need to cut one more card for the listed additions... any suggestions? Thanks!
I decided to take out the last cycle land, Forgotten Cave for an additional Snow-Covered Mountain. However, I still have not decided what to pull for our new additions (Mimic Vat, Lightning Greaves, Braid of Fire, Elixir of Immortality). I'd hate to cut Gamble & Blood Moon as both are very powerful for our color, but they haven't performed well (yet).
Any thoughts or suggestions would be most appreciated! Thanks!
i would cut blood moon and put ruination in instead, and i would put all the gauntlets in, as well as the Sculpting Steel. And with Gratuitous Violence, you can double the damage of Latulla twice if she target a Mogg Maniac or a Stuffy Doll...
Hakim, Loreweaver
Autumn Willow
Yomiji, Who Bars the Way
Hanna, Ship's Navigator
Chromium
Skyfire Kirin
Being a color with limited options, I'd build a Mono-Red EDH deck to be heavily artifact dependent on mana, have a lot of mass-land destruction and mana-base disruption effects, card draw from artifacts (e.g. Coercive Portal, Staff of Nin) and whatever space remains in the deck will revolve around exploiting Latulla. Just my 2cents.
One thing that I have to work with is that I play in a league where large land destruction will net negative points, so that's why I avoided the mass LD. The reason I don't like Basalt Monolith is that unless you have Rings of Brighthearth out (and remember, we have exactly one 12CMC way to find it ) it's just a worse Mana Vault.
I like the idea of Ruination, though knowing I have to be somewhat careful with the casting time, as wrecking someone's entire manabase will be counterproductive (wrecking their land base is more negative points than winning is positive points).
In all the games I've played with Latulla, I've won with combat damage exactly once (the "Phoenix Army" represent), which is why I'm not running the listed effects. I almost always win with Repercussion/Vicious Shadow effects or through Psychosis Crawler. I think if someone want to go the aggro/attack method with this deck, all of your suggestions would be inclusions.
I'll try -1 Blood Moon & +1 Ruination this week.
Thanks again!
Ruination is imo one of the best red card ever printed... in my meta, you can be sure every red deck have one. Blood moon is very good if you dont run the gauntlets effect, but still, destroying those lands are better.
Hakim, Loreweaver
Autumn Willow
Yomiji, Who Bars the Way
Hanna, Ship's Navigator
Chromium
Skyfire Kirin
Those are the rules that Armada League established, which are used by all the leagues I play in. Land destruction is generally not liked and not seen as a "valid" strategy. As much as I agree with your points, if I want to be competitive in the leagues I play, it's something I need to generally avoid.
Deal Broker as additional card draw
Basilisk Collar for lifegain from your general and Phoenixes.
Illusionist's Bracers as another copy effect for your general's ability.
I've designed my own list haha :)) 16 mana-rocks, lots of mass-landD and player disruption (especially to blue mages since they're the one you should watch out for)
Hey, thanks for your great suggestions!
I think if this deck was really build around Latulla, and not the mono-red control version you see here, Basilisk Collar and Illusionist's Bracers would be a perfect fit! I don't know that they work as well in this version, as it's not really build around Latulla, but more uses her ability when necessary. We have other wincons that we try to get out first before going to the good lady herself.
Deal Broker is certainly an interesting choice for this deck, it doesn't have haste like Mad Prophet, but it's less expensive, has a bigger body and has a better ability. What would you recommend cutting for this card if it were to be included?
Thank you again for your great suggestions!