The discussion in this OP is pretty outdated and needs to be rewritten, but the decklist is up to date
Hey guys, looking for some feedback on my new Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord deck. This deck kind of evolved from Glissa, the Traitor list, which I was never really satisfied with. I was missing a lot of the top graveyard focused cards like Living Death and Survival of the Fittest from back when I played The Mimeoplasm a lot, so I decided to give Jarad a go. The main plan of the deck is to fill up graveyards to make stuff like Lord of Extinction, Sewer Nemesis, and Nighthowler really big so that I can sac them to Greater Good to draw a ton of cards, or to Jarad to just outright kill people. I'm looking to stay away from infinite combos since my group tends to frown upon them, but basically everything else is fair game. One of the biggest problems I have encountered so far is obviously graveyard hate, especially Bojuka Bog. Krosan Grip can handle a lot of the artifact and enchantment variants like Tormod's Crypt and Relic of Progenitus, but there's really nothing I can do against the Bog, since the only way I can think of to answer it is playing the Stifle effects that are only in blue. Anyways, the deck likes to use Dredge cards along with stuff like Memory Jar to fill up graveyards. I'm looking to find spots for a few more things like Altar of Dementia, Yavimaya Elder, and Filth to make my fatties unblockable, so if you guys have suggestions for cuts they would be greatly appreciated. Here's the list:
Yeah, I know that is an option, but paying 4 mana for an artifact that doesn't really do much besides stop certain kinds of graveyard hate just seems so bad. I feel like most of the time I would be better off just trying to refuel rather than play Witchbane Orb proactively.
Yeah, grave hate is a natural bane of the deck. The best way I found of combating it when I played Jarad was to keep my graveyard only as full as possible until right before I went for the win. Doing that requires some of the more powerful cards, but you have those, so it should be perfectly doable. EOT saccing your field to Altar of Dementia or Greater Good or throwing all your mana into Survival is a decent way to go from an average graveyard to a lethal Lord of Extinction.
If you wanted to try responding to grave hate, instead of Witchbane Orb, Feldon's Cane is probably better. It's a 1CMC drop and forget artifact. If you're playing Jarad, you're either going to get grave hated at least once a game, or you're going to win. So the Cane shouldn't end up as a dead card, and it words versus all forms of grave hate once it's out. Alternatively, if you're willing to keep up 1CMC, Thran Foundry gives you the option to "grave hate" opponents or save your own.
Took out a couple of the overall stronger cards for cards that work better with the deck as a whole.
Does anyone have any more suggestions for possible changes? I feel like the deck still has a ways to go before it is as good as it can be. Some cards I was thinking about trying out are Varolz, the Scar-Striped as another sac outlet and way to use my dead guys, Lotleth Troll as a discard outlet, and Dread Return as a reanimate that I can use from my graveyard. Thoughts?
How have you found Abrupt Decay? I know that there are always targets for it, but it may not be able to kill the target that you need to kill. Do you find yourself answering powerful cards with it or just throwing it at some utility guy? Maelstrom Pulse is very good, but sorcery speed.
I've always liked Phyrexian Processor in Jared decks. If you play it early, you can get away with paying 15 life and then just churning out tokens before your opponents have any defenses established. The tokens can end the game quickly on their own and are deadly in the hands of Jared.
How have you found Abrupt Decay? I know that there are always targets for it, but it may not be able to kill the target that you need to kill. Do you find yourself answering powerful cards with it or just throwing it at some utility guy? Maelstrom Pulse is very good, but sorcery speed.
I've always liked Phyrexian Processor in Jared decks. If you play it early, you can get away with paying 15 life and then just churning out tokens before your opponents have any defenses established. The tokens can end the game quickly on their own and are deadly in the hands of Jared.
It usually hits things that I want to hit. The fact that it can take out something like Rest in Peace or other graveyard disruption and completely dodge all countermagic is huge. Being only 2 mana means that I can cast it early enough to take out stuff like Sol Ring to prevent someone from jumping out too far ahead. And being an Instant is obviously preferable to Pulse's Sorcery speed, so I think it's better overall. Phyrexian Processor seems pretty cool, but I would be afraid that it would just get blown up before I get a chance to use it, which means it would end up just costing me a lot of life.
EDIT: More changes. Filth didn't really work as well as hoped since I don't get Urborg out as reliably.
Jarad's my main man, and I heartily believe that Brawn is the better card than Filth for a number of reasons. You don't need to run both, but the effect is totally game-ending, so good on you for keeping him in.
There's a good competitive trio of cards that CreativeStorm is hitting on. Phyrexian Processor is just not close to efficient enough to be in the list. Run it in Oloro instead.
Phyrexian Devourer combos with both Jarad as well as Triskelion if you run Necrotic Ooze. While both of them are mediocre cards by themselves, they bin themselves (nice), they're creatures in the GY when dredged, recurrable via Genesis when you need them, pitchable to Survival of the Fittest, etc. Triskelion combos with Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, who in addition is all kinds of value-on-a-stick. Mikaeus, the Unhallowed combos with Woodfall Primus and any sac outlet. Having a creature-based free sac outlet is also of paramount importance, as it's fetchable with every black and green fetch outside of Green Sun's Zenith (I'm not aware of any green sac-another-creature dudes, but I didn't do a gatherer search while posting this). My go-to is Dimir House Guard, since it transmutes for Damnation, Oracle of Mul-Daya, Pattern of Rebirth, etc. as well.
Speaking of creature tutors. There's one card in the game that will search for any creature in your library and put it onto the battlefield at instant speed. It's Chord of Calling, and outside the T1 GSZ into Dryad Arbor, and the reshuffle for use later, it's better than GSZ in pretty much every conceivable way. You know what it feels like when someone attacks into your lone Oracle of Mul-Daya mid-late game and you Chord in a Lord of Extinction and demolish that attacker of theirs? This is what that feels like.
Anymore, I find that running a Sword of Feast and Famine is serving me well; we run so many little value creatures that any single one of them can turn into a huge accelerator. The 3 damage from Wood Elves carrying a sword is negligible; the discard and untap is huge. This deck will drink every ounce of mana you can produce.
I have wound up replacing Maelstrom Pulse with Sever the Bloodline. It's exile at 4, hits like-named creatures (screw you, Talrand!), and flashes back so it's not dead if you've dredged it. I like it. I've found that with gods running around, exile or -X/-X is indispensable. My one problem is when they're not creatures. Good god, how does Green/Black kill an indestructible enchantment? I suppose there are All Is Dust, Karn Liberated, and Fade Into Antiquity (I did do a gatherer search for that one).
Regarding your list:
I malign Deadbridge Chant as unreliable, though its card advantage is undeniable if it sticks. I rate it 0.3 Phyrexian Arenas.
Memory Jar seems like awesome tech for a deck that wants its GY full. I think I'll make a spot to test that.
I've found Deathrite Shaman to be middling, but probably the best 1 CMC dork in the game. I don't run any other 1 CMC dorks either, though.
If Nighthowler's good, Lashwrithe should be great. I haven't tested it. Doesn't pump Jarad from the GY, harder to recur, not pitchable to Fauna Shaman/Survival. Nighthowler is better synergy, but only might be better value. That 4hp equip might make a huge difference when you want to fling, equip, fling for the kill.
Lotleth Troll seems very underwhelming. I'd run ramp in his place.
Lotus Cobra's amazing if you have an Oracle or Azusa out. I waffle between which of the two I like more. With black/green you can usually tutor up a Crucible, and Crucible + Azusa + Fetchlands = 6 landfall triggers a turn, plus 3 untapped lands. With Lotus Cobra out, that's 9 mana a turn, 3 permanent, for 3 life, until you run out of targets. The Oracle is card advantage/draw filtering, while Azusa isn't, though. In my list I don't run Cobra, so I run Oracle. If I did run Cobra, I think I'd run Azusa too. She also gets extremely unfair with Wasteland and Strip Mine. The reason I run Oracle over Azusa is that I'm concerned about card advantage.
I also notice you don't run Glissa in the 99. I am so rarely unhappy to see her. Our artifacts do so much for the deck, and another (repeatable!) Regrowth effect as well as an efficient combatant is a strong contender for a slot imo.
I've not found anything that efficiently protects the yard, other than having an Eldrazi that you can Survival into the GY in response. Since one of my favorite things about the deck is that it's so full of moving pieces that aren't game-breaking individually that the deck overall is a bad Bribery target, running Eldrazi is counterproductive. I've learned to stop dredging at 20-25 cards, which statistically provides a lot of value, and you just re-dredge after you're hit. It's not great, but this deck is resilient enough to take it.
There are a few cards that can really work in your deck, such as:
Nirkana Revenant: This mana doubler can get itself pretty big. Under certain circumstances you can get it to 40/40 and blow it up.
Phyrexian Dreadnought: Put it on the battlefield, his effect is on the stack, you sac it with Jarad. Fun for the whole family.
Phyrexian Processor: Ok, this one can really screw you up. But if you ramp fast enough you may be able to do a 30/30 token for example and blow it up. It works well with some lifegain so you dont also die soon.
Now, there was another card that I don't remember, though. Basically it was a creature that for 0 exiled the top card of your library and gave it power and toughness equal to something related to the card you exiled. If you had a power greater than a certain number the creature would need to get sacrificed. But if tried to sacrifice it with jarad first, did its effect like 20 times and then put its sac effect last, after all the others you would simply kill everyone off because even if the power was greater than needed it wouldn't get to be sacrificed by its own effect.
Worldspine Wurm: Might not seem the greatest but it is a potential 30 damage with only one creature.
Ghoultree: Useless in a lot of decks. But casting it with 1 mana then using another 3 to give everyone 10 damage is just diddly fun.
Lashwrite: Believe me, this card is bonkers in Jarad.
Hope I helped.
I don't really think the cards that rely on me having a lot of Swamps (Nirkana Revenant and Lashwrithe) are good enough since I only run 8 Swamps total, including Overgrown Tomb and Bayou. Cabal Coffers is worth it because it's on a land and if I get it out with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, the mana advantage is just too great. Phyrexian Dreadnought seems like a neat trick, but I'm not sure the payoff is enough to justify the times when it won't be useful for one reason or another. It does work well with Varolz, the Scar-Striped though, so that could make it a little more viable. I think the card you are thinking of is Phyrexian Devourer, which could be a good addition, though I'm not a huge fan of exiling stuff that I won't be able to get back later if I need to. Worldspine Wurm does bring a lot of potential damage, but it also costs a metric ton of mana to pull off. It takes 11 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 = 23, which while it can be spread out over multiple turns, is still something you could only pull off in the very late game. Ghoultree is an interesting option, but by the time he is castable for 1 mana, one of my Lhurgoyf effects would be just as big. Even though he will usually cost less than a to cast, his CMC is still seen as 8 by stuff like Green Sun's Zenith, Birthing Pod, Reanimate, and Phyrexian Delver, which are all downsides with him. All the cards you mentioned seem good with Jarad in general, but I'm not sure that they all work well in my list.
Jarad's my main man, and I heartily believe that Brawn is the better card than Filth for a number of reasons. You don't need to run both, but the effect is totally game-ending, so good on you for keeping him in.
Yeah I ended up keeping Brawn over Filth as well because I don't have Urborg in play reliably enough to ensure that Filth will actually work, whereas Brawn's Trample doesn't really care either way. Once I get a couple big guys down, I can just run people over with them and then sac to Jarad to finish the job.
There's a good competitive trio of cards that CreativeStorm is hitting on. Phyrexian Processor is just not close to efficient enough to be in the list. Run it in Oloro instead.
Phyrexian Devourer combos with both Jarad as well as Triskelion if you run Necrotic Ooze. While both of them are mediocre cards by themselves, they bin themselves (nice), they're creatures in the GY when dredged, recurrable via Genesis when you need them, pitchable to Survival of the Fittest, etc. Triskelion combos with Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, who in addition is all kinds of value-on-a-stick. Mikaeus, the Unhallowed combos with Woodfall Primus and any sac outlet.
As you said, Phyrexian Devourer and Triskelion are both kind of mediocre cards on their own, and I also don't like that Devourer exiles the cards so I can't access them later. However, he may still be worth it if I can just end games with him, so I might end up giving him a shot. I'm not really looking to turn this into a combo deck, so a lot of the Necrotic Ooze, Triskelion, and Mikaeus, the Unhallowed combos will have to stay on the bench.
Having a creature-based free sac outlet is also of paramount importance, as it's fetchable with every black and green fetch outside of Green Sun's Zenith (I'm not aware of any green sac-another-creature dudes, but I didn't do a gatherer search while posting this). My go-to is Dimir House Guard, since it transmutes for Damnation, Oracle of Mul-Daya, Pattern of Rebirth, etc. as well.
The best sac outlet that you can get with GSZ would be Varolz, the Scar-Striped. He can regenerate just the same as Dimir House Guard, and he also has the ability to scavenge your dead guys, especially your Lhurgoyfs (the characteristic defining ability functions in all zones) to get a ton more +1/+1 counters and sac them to Jarad again. I really want to run Pattern of Rebirth, but it seems really risky if your creature gets hit with removal in response to you casting it, or you draw it without a sac outlet on the board. I also happen to have a Foil copy so that makes me want to play it just that much more. Do you think it's worth it?
Speaking of creature tutors. There's one card in the game that will search for any creature in your library and put it onto the battlefield at instant speed. It's Chord of Calling, and outside the T1 GSZ into Dryad Arbor, and the reshuffle for use later, it's better than GSZ in pretty much every conceivable way. You know what it feels like when someone attacks into your lone Oracle of Mul-Daya mid-late game and you Chord in a Lord of Extinction and demolish that attacker of theirs? This is what that feels like.
Anymore, I find that running a Sword of Feast and Famine is serving me well; we run so many little value creatures that any single one of them can turn into a huge accelerator. The 3 damage from Wood Elves carrying a sword is negligible; the discard and untap is huge. This deck will drink every ounce of mana you can produce.
Yeah I know about Chord of Calling and it is indeed a pretty awesome option, especially because of the Convoke. I would hate to lose out on the option to have T1 GSZ for Dryad Arbor though, since Dryad does so many other useful things in this deck. For example, yesterday in a game I was playing I dredged it into the graveyard along with Lotus Cobra and then cast a Living Death bringing back a ton of guys. I thought I was one mana short of casting Jarad and sacing my Sewer Nemesis for lethal, but then I realized that my Dryad Arbor caused a landfall trigger from Lotus Cobra and gave me the one more mana that I needed to win that turn instead of waiting until next turn and risking getting hit by a sweeper. It also pitches to Survival of the Fittest and Fauna Shaman, and ramps me if I get it turn 1 with GSZ. I could try to find room for both GSZ and Chord, but that might be tough, especially if I want to fit in Pattern of Rebirth as well. My only copy of Sword of Feast and Famine is in my Ephara deck, and I think it works a lot better there, since this deck doesn't really attack all that much, although the extra mana and forcing a discard are both things that this deck really likes.
I have wound up replacing Maelstrom Pulse with Sever the Bloodline. It's exile at 4, hits like-named creatures (screw you, Talrand!), and flashes back so it's not dead if you've dredged it. I like it. I've found that with gods running around, exile or -X/-X is indispensable. My one problem is when they're not creatures. Good god, how does Green/Black kill an indestructible enchantment? I suppose there are All Is Dust, Karn Liberated, and Fade Into Antiquity (I did do a gatherer search for that one).
I don't play either of those, since I'm keeping my deck pretty light on removal so that I can focus on my own plans. The only ones that I run are Abrupt Decay (very good in my blue-heavy meta), Beast Within, and Krosan Grip (awesome for taking out graveyard hate cards like Relic of Progenitus). I have been pretty satisfied with those, plus a couple in creature form that I can search up or reanimate when I need to. If you're looking for some anti-God tech, I suggest Deglamer and Unravel the Æther, which are even better than exile if the God is their general.
Regarding your list:
I malign Deadbridge Chant as unreliable, though its card advantage is undeniable if it sticks. I rate it 0.3 Phyrexian Arenas.
Memory Jar seems like awesome tech for a deck that wants its GY full. I think I'll make a spot to test that.
I've found Deathrite Shaman to be middling, but probably the best 1 CMC dork in the game. I don't run any other 1 CMC dorks either, though.
I have to agree on Deadbridge Chant. I really want it to be good and it's sort of a pet card of mine, but it just hasn't worked well enough.
Memory Jar has been awesome the times I have used it. I will generally cast it one turn and then crack it on the next, giving me a new hand of 7 to use for that turn and then adding 20+ more cards to all graveyards, which really helps power up my Lhurgoyf effects.
Deathrite Shaman may not have the huge impact that a lot of cards have, but he flies largely under the radar in this format, and with the way I am filling up graveyards, he can easily drain off 8-10 life from each opponent over a few turns, and he just provides a ton of additional utility beyond that, with ramp, graveyard hate, and lifegain as well.
If Nighthowler's good, Lashwrithe should be great. I haven't tested it. Doesn't pump Jarad from the GY, harder to recur, not pitchable to Fauna Shaman/Survival. Nighthowler is better synergy, but only might be better value. That 4hp equip might make a huge difference when you want to fling, equip, fling for the kill.
Lotleth Troll seems very underwhelming. I'd run ramp in his place.
I actually think Lashwrithe would be way worse than Nighthowler, and I don't really see how they are comparable. Nighthowler's power being equal to the number of creatures in all graveyards means he's often a 10/10 or bigger, while Lashwrithe usually won't get bigger than a 4/4 or 5/5 unless I have Urborg out. Bestowing a Nighthowler, sacing the enchanted creature, then sacing the Nighthowler often just kills everyone with Jarad or draws me so many cards that I can't lose off of Greater Good. I don't think Lashwrithe is even close to as useful.
Lotleth Troll isn't that great of a beater, but having a free discard outlet on a creature, especially one that only costs 2 mana and is targetable by GSZ makes him worth it in my mind. Having ways to get creatures to the graveyard when you need to is really important in this deck, which is why I like to have enough discard and sacrifice outlets.
Cutting down to 35 lands seems really risky. This deck is quite mana hungry, and we want to at least hit our land drop every turn. I don't play a very large ramp package, so that could be part of it. If you feel like you have enough consistency to run only 35 lands, then that's awesome, but I don't really feel comfortable doing that with my current build.
Lotus Cobra's amazing if you have an Oracle or Azusa out. I waffle between which of the two I like more. With black/green you can usually tutor up a Crucible, and Crucible + Azusa + Fetchlands = 6 landfall triggers a turn, plus 3 untapped lands. With Lotus Cobra out, that's 9 mana a turn, 3 permanent, for 3 life, until you run out of targets. The Oracle is card advantage/draw filtering, while Azusa isn't, though. In my list I don't run Cobra, so I run Oracle. If I did run Cobra, I think I'd run Azusa too. She also gets extremely unfair with Wasteland and Strip Mine. The reason I run Oracle over Azusa is that I'm concerned about card advantage.
I also notice you don't run Glissa in the 99. I am so rarely unhappy to see her. Our artifacts do so much for the deck, and another (repeatable!) Regrowth effect as well as an efficient combatant is a strong contender for a slot imo.
I've not found anything that efficiently protects the yard, other than having an Eldrazi that you can Survival into the GY in response. Since one of my favorite things about the deck is that it's so full of moving pieces that aren't game-breaking individually that the deck overall is a bad Bribery target, running Eldrazi is counterproductive. I've learned to stop dredging at 20-25 cards, which statistically provides a lot of value, and you just re-dredge after you're hit. It's not great, but this deck is resilient enough to take it.
I really like Glissa, the Traitor, but I don't think I really run enough Artifacts to make her worthwhile. She's very good if you build around her with a lot of Artifacts to recur, but it just doesn't seem like she would slot into this deck very well without some major changes.
Your strategy of just playing around grave hate is basically the same thing that I have been doing. Put enough stuff in the yard to make you appear scary and force someone to use their hate, then reload and go for it again. Eventually they will run out of hate and then it's pretty easy to go for the win. I have also had a few games where I just blew everyone away with insane card advantage off of Greater Good, which I would have to say is easily the best card in the entire deck.
Yes, I am thinking about Phyrexian Devourer indeed. And about exiling cards and not getting them back, it's not really a problem, as boosting this guy over 40 power will just end the game if sacced by Jarad. Just saying.
About the Nirkana and Lashwrithe, Urborg, tomb of Yagmoth fixes that nicely.
Well the thing with relying on Urborg to activate Nirkana and Lashwrithe is that I don't really end up with it on the board all that consistently because I don't play any land tutors specifically to find it. Crop Rotation is a card that I often like to play, but I couldn't find room for it in this list.
I really like Lotleth Troll so far because he functions as a great discard outlet that I can find with any of my creature tutors, and I don't have to pay any mana or wait at all to use him.
I love the look of Jarad, but he seems like he'd draw a ton of hate when you play him. Has that been a problem?
He does draw quite a bit of hate, especially graveyard hate. I've been able to play around it pretty well so far, probably winning about 40% of the time, which is pretty good for multiplayer, but I haven't gotten enough games in yet to really say for sure.
Mimic Vat is the sort of card that's great in this deck, and nobody in their right mind allows it to stick around for more than a turn. It gets blown up faster than Survival of the Fittest, Sylvan Library, Sword of Feast and Famine, you name it. Nobody will countenance a Vat on the field.
It's a card that I had in the list at one point, but I've had a hard time keeping a slot for it because the list is already very tight in my opinion anyway. I think a card I want to put in over it right now is Pattern of Rebirth, and also Altar of Dementia as an additional graveyard enabler and sac outlet. Deadbridge Chant is definitely getting cut for one of them, but I haven't decided what to switch for the other, and I want to add them together since Pattern really needs sac outlets to support it.
Mimic Vat is the sort of card that's great in this deck, and nobody in their right mind allows it to stick around for more than a turn. It gets blown up faster than Survival of the Fittest, Sylvan Library, Sword of Feast and Famine, you name it. Nobody will countenance a Vat on the field.
I have actually noticed this as well. People really freak out about Mimic Vat way more than they probably should. Keeping up 3 mana to use the Vat all the time can be a hindrance, especially in a deck that doesn't play a lot of instants and needs to use all of its mana most turns. This is a VERY proactive deck which means we don't really want to pass the turn with open mana unless we have to.
Deadbridge Chant was usually just 4BG: Mill 10, which isn't even close to good enough, so I'm going to try out Pattern of Rebirth, which has a ton of potential in a deck like this which plays plenty of sacrifice outlets. Wurmcoil Engine just doesn't do anything special in this deck, and Mikaeus has the potential to do some extremely powerful things, especially with the aforementioned sacrifice effects. As an added bonus, I recently obtained Foil copies of both of them.
Realized that the mana was shifting towards a little more black heavy, so I'm going to make this quick change, which will also help support Cabal Coffers a little better when I don't have Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth by giving me a 9th Swamp in my deck.
I still want to fit Phyrexian Altar and / or Altar of Dementia into this deck somewhere, so if anyone wants to suggest which card should be cut, I would appreciate your advice. I feel like having a critical mass of sacrifice and discard outlets is really important in a deck like this which wants to be able to put certain cards in the graveyard consistently.
Got a copy of Altar of Dementia. I think I'm going to cut Sensei's Divining Top since it often doesn't do a ton in this deck between all of the massive draw and dredge effects, and I think it could be better used in a different deck.
This gets me up by one sacrifice outlet, but I wouldn't be opposed to adding one more if I can find room for, and Phyrexian Altar is probably the best choice. Another card which I recently acquired and though might be a decent option for this deck, especially having a lot of sac outlets, is Coffin Queen. Do any of you guys have experience with this card?
The biggest thing missing here is Hermit Druid, he's easily the most efficient way to fill your graveyard. Also, Altar of Dementia is the best sac outlet I have found for Jarad.
A package like that has excellent synergy with Life From the Loam, and Crucible of Worlds as you can sac Marit Lage over and over for huge benefit.
Other cards to consider: Crypt of Agadeem - fits well with a deck that focuses on filling the graveyard. It That Betrays - One of the top animation targets out there. He wins games. Solemn Simulacrum - You need this. ETB benefit and sweet graveyard trigger, he's a natural fit here. Genesis - He is great with dredge. Essence Harvest - Great alternative for when Jarad is M.I.A. and you need to annihilate someone. Corpse Connoisseur - Great reusable graveyard tutor. Massacre Wurm - If you have tokens in your meta, he will be worth it.
The biggest thing missing here is Hermit Druid, he's easily the most efficient way to fill your graveyard. Also, Altar of Dementia is the best sac outlet I have found for Jarad.
A package like that has excellent synergy with Life From the Loam, and Crucible of Worlds as you can sac Marit Lage over and over for huge benefit.
Other cards to consider: Crypt of Agadeem - fits well with a deck that focuses on filling the graveyard. It That Betrays - One of the top animation targets out there. He wins games. Solemn Simulacrum - You need this. ETB benefit and sweet graveyard trigger, he's a natural fit here. Genesis - He is great with dredge. Essence Harvest - Great alternative for when Jarad is M.I.A. and you need to annihilate someone. Corpse Connoisseur - Great reusable graveyard tutor. Massacre Wurm - If you have tokens in your meta, he will be worth it.
Hermit Druid is definitely really good, but I don't know if I want to lower my basic land count enough to make sure that he reliably hits enough cards.
Altar of Dementia just got added in, and while I haven't had a chance to use it yet, I'm pretty sure it will be awesome.
Expedition Map and especially Crop Rotation are things that I wanted to fit in, but I couldn't really find spots for them, especially since I want to keep my creature count fairly high.
Crypt of Agadeem seems pretty cool, but I hate lands that come into play tapped, and it seems kind of inconsistent, especially in the early game. It is nice that it taps for black though and I have access to a foil copy, so I might give it a try.
It That Betrays just seems like he would be a big fatty that doesn't really do a ton, but costs way more than all my variable power guys, and doesn't get as big. Stealing all the stuff that your opponents sacrifice is awesome, but his annihilator ability is only for 2, so I'll probably just be getting lands / mana rocks / utility creatures that aren't super useful for me.
I ended up cutting Solemn Simulacrum because he's pretty inefficient as far as ramp goes, and I already have a ton of creatures and the 4-drop slot. He definitely gives good value, but there are just better options for everything he does.
Genesis is something I have used in graveyard decks in the past and always found that he is too slow and expensive to actually do what you need him to do. I would always rather just have a reanimation spell, which I why I picked Phyrexian Delver over him at 5 mana.
Essence Harvest just feels really weak and I usually don't have to worry about losing Jarad since I typically only cast him the turn I am going to use him. The fact that it only hits one player rather than everyone makes it a lot worse.
Corpse Connoisseur is pretty cool, but once again, he tends to cost a lot of mana to do what he does, and I often want quantity over quality when it comes to graveyard filling.
My meta is pretty heavy on controlling and board wiping, so I don't think Massacre Wurm would often hit enough targets to be worth it.
Lhurgoyf is definitely one of the weaker cards that's still in my deck, but being able to sac him to Greater Good or Disciple of Bolas and draw 10+ cards is still worth it.
Nighthowler is way better than Lhurgoyf and honestly I wouldn't even consider cutting him. Every single time I have drawn him he has been absolutely amazing.
I already explained my reason for including Phyrexian Delver over Genesis: I usually want my creatures to go from the graveyard to the battlefield right now. This card has saved me when I thought I had no other outs before by virtue of being a creature that reanimates.
I find it strange that you say that I need to add Solemn Simulacrum, but then suggest that I cut Wood Elves, when it is way more efficient at ramping and potentially better at drawing cards as well if I have Skullclamp in play.
Brawn hasn't really done a ton for me yet because I usually win by sacrificing guys to Jarad rather than by attacking, but I could definitely see situations where I would wish to have him in my graveyard. I could also see potentially cutting him though.
Mindslicer has been excellent against many of the control decks in my meta because they either need to tap down their mana to answer him, or else they lose their hand and then are unable to answer whatever I am doing for a follow-up. It doesn't hurt me nearly as much as it hurts everyone else since I am doing a lot of things out of my graveyard, and I have plenty of sac outlets so I can control when he dies.
I'd say with your current basic land count, Hermit Druid will more than carry his weight and seems like a no-brainer since the focus of your deck relies largely on the size of your graveyard.
In a reanimation deck, It That Betrays is awesome. He can steal games early, and is always worth saccing, opposed to Lhurgoyf and Nighthowler. Also, I'm not sure I've ever hard cast him, you have enough reanimation where his cmc won't matter.
We might just play our decks differently (and our decks are obviously a bit different), but I rarely grab forests when I ramp, and considering you don't run Expedition Map or Crop Rotation, it seems that you'll have Urborg, Tomb of yawgmoth out a little less. I like Solemn Simulacrum over the elves, because he can fix your mana (especially with a color-demanding general like Jarad), and draw cards by himself. You also have enough sac outlets that Skullclamp works just as well on him. Also, he is my go-to in the Birthing Pod chain, sometimes I'll grab Oracle if I'm not comfortable with ramp.
Essence Harvest has been an all star for me. If Jarad gets tucked, countered, removed before you can activate him, this card allows you to knock a problematic player out of the game and ensure a victory. Your mileage may vary, but if you start having problems activating the bossman, this card is worth a try.
I think you have a pretty good start here, happy saccing!
I'd say with your current basic land count, Hermit Druid will more than carry his weight and seems like a no-brainer since the focus of your deck relies largely on the size of your graveyard.
In a reanimation deck, It That Betrays is awesome. He can steal games early, and is always worth saccing, opposed to Lhurgoyf and Nighthowler. Also, I'm not sure I've ever hard cast him, you have enough reanimation where his cmc won't matter.
We might just play our decks differently (and our decks are obviously a bit different), but I rarely grab forests when I ramp, and considering you don't run Expedition Map or Crop Rotation, it seems that you'll have Urborg, Tomb of yawgmoth out a little less. I like Solemn Simulacrum over the elves, because he can fix your mana (especially with a color-demanding general like Jarad), and draw cards by himself. You also have enough sac outlets that Skullclamp works just as well on him. Also, he is my go-to in the Birthing Pod chain, sometimes I'll grab Oracle if I'm not comfortable with ramp.
Essence Harvest has been an all star for me. If Jarad gets tucked, countered, removed before you can activate him, this card allows you to knock a problematic player out of the game and ensure a victory. Your mileage may vary, but if you start having problems activating the bossman, this card is worth a try.
I think you have a pretty good start here, happy saccing!
You could be right on Hermit Druid, although I'm still not completely sold since he's rather slow without haste and he has the stigma of being a combo enabler which paints a big target on his / my back.
The big selling point for Phyrexian Delver is that I can access it with stuff that only interacts with creatures, like Birthing Pod, Jarad's Orders, Survival of the Fittest, etc. If I am struggling to draw a reanimation effect, having the flexibility to search up the Delver with creature tutors can make all the difference.
As far as Solemn Simulacrum and color fixing, my Wood Elves can search up Overgrown Tomb or Bayou as well as basic forests, meaning that he fixes just as well as, if not better than Solemn. Solemn is a great value creature in a lot of decks, but I believe that he doesn't belong in most green decks since they have much better ways to ramp, and cantripping when he dies hardly counts as draw. My infrequent access to Urborg is the reason why I cut Filth. Unblockable is better than Trample, but the inconsistency with Swampwalk just wasn't worth it. Crop Rotation is still awesome and I want to play it if I can make room, but it is a little less awesome when it's not grabbing instant speed Bojuka Bog.
I will keep Essence Harvest in mind if I ever feel like I need an alternative to Jarad, but so far he has been enough.
I managed to pull off a turn 5 kill the other day after I was heavily pressured by a Kaalia deck. Turn 2 Mesmeric Orb was key to filling up graveyards, combined with Golgari Grave-Troll I had enough fuel to play Jarad on turn 4 and then reanimate a lethal Lord of Extinction on turn 5, although I had to go about it in a roundabout way since I was only on 4 life. Reanimate had to target Eternal Witness and put me to 1 life, with Witness returning Birds of Paradise, which gave me enough creatures to sac for a flashback Dread Return to get Lord of Extinction out and save enough mana for the kill with Jarad. I like where the deck is going, but I'm not sure that I'm super comfortable with only 35 lands, especially with a few like Cabal Coffers, Dryad Arbor, and Crypt of Agadeem not being very good early on. I think ideally I would cut a utility land and a nonland card to add two basics and go up to 36 lands, though I'm not sure what changes would be ideal.
I've put together a list pretty close to yours, but sadly still missing enough cards that I'm not sure what to say about it. Some cards I'm trying that others have mentioned earlier. Like phyrexian dreadnought. Here are some things I'm trying in mine:
Alright, I think I'm going to be slotting a Phyrexian Tower into this deck as soon as I can get one, probably replacing High Market. The Tower just seems better since it can give me two mana at once, which is very useful in a deck that's as mana hungry as this one. I'm thinking it might also be time to try out Crop Rotation in this list, since it's really nice to be able to set up a sac outlet or Urborg + Coffers or any of my other utility lands at instant speed. It can also actually serve as ramp if I have a Lotus Cobra out since it costs one mana and brings the land into play untapped. Also gets Dryad Arbor if I need another creature for something like Dread Return flashback.
Also, Life's Legacy out of M15 is perfect for this deck, so I will need to find a spot for that card.
The discussion in this OP is pretty outdated and needs to be rewritten, but the decklist is up to date
Hey guys, looking for some feedback on my new Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord deck. This deck kind of evolved from Glissa, the Traitor list, which I was never really satisfied with. I was missing a lot of the top graveyard focused cards like Living Death and Survival of the Fittest from back when I played The Mimeoplasm a lot, so I decided to give Jarad a go. The main plan of the deck is to fill up graveyards to make stuff like Lord of Extinction, Sewer Nemesis, and Nighthowler really big so that I can sac them to Greater Good to draw a ton of cards, or to Jarad to just outright kill people. I'm looking to stay away from infinite combos since my group tends to frown upon them, but basically everything else is fair game. One of the biggest problems I have encountered so far is obviously graveyard hate, especially Bojuka Bog. Krosan Grip can handle a lot of the artifact and enchantment variants like Tormod's Crypt and Relic of Progenitus, but there's really nothing I can do against the Bog, since the only way I can think of to answer it is playing the Stifle effects that are only in blue. Anyways, the deck likes to use Dredge cards along with stuff like Memory Jar to fill up graveyards. I'm looking to find spots for a few more things like Altar of Dementia, Yavimaya Elder, and Filth to make my fatties unblockable, so if you guys have suggestions for cuts they would be greatly appreciated.Here's the list:Average CMC: 3.12
1 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Artifact (9)
1 Birthing Pod
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Golgari Signet
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Phyrexian Altar
1 Scroll Rack
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
Creature (20)
1 Baleful Force
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Disciple of Bolas
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Lord of Extinction
1 Lotus Cobra
1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1 Mindslicer
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Phyrexian Delver
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
1 Void Winnower
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Animate Dead
1 Cadaverous Bloom
1 Dance of the Dead
1 Greater Good
1 Necromancy
1 Necropotence
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Sylvan Library
Instant (6)
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Beast Within
1 Crop Rotation
1 Entomb
1 Murderous Cut
1 Vampiric Tutor
Sorcery (18)
1 Buried Alive
1 Damnation
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Dread Return
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Jarad's Orders
1 Life // Death
1 Life from the Loam
1 Life's Legacy
1 Living Death
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Nature's Lore
1 Reanimate
1 Regrowth
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Victimize
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Bayou
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Command Tower
1 Dryad Arbor
5 Forest
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Polluted Delta
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Strip Mine
7 Swamp
1 Tainted Wood
1 Twilight Mire
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Woodland Cemetery
GUB [Retired Primer] The Mimeoplasm BUG
Modern: UR Storm RU
Cube: WUBRG Pauper Cube GRBUW
Credit for the banner goes to DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Plane Studios
Yeah, I know that is an option, but paying 4 mana for an artifact that doesn't really do much besides stop certain kinds of graveyard hate just seems so bad. I feel like most of the time I would be better off just trying to refuel rather than play Witchbane Orb proactively.
GUB [Retired Primer] The Mimeoplasm BUG
Modern: UR Storm RU
Cube: WUBRG Pauper Cube GRBUW
Credit for the banner goes to DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Plane Studios
If you wanted to try responding to grave hate, instead of Witchbane Orb, Feldon's Cane is probably better. It's a 1CMC drop and forget artifact. If you're playing Jarad, you're either going to get grave hated at least once a game, or you're going to win. So the Cane shouldn't end up as a dead card, and it words versus all forms of grave hate once it's out. Alternatively, if you're willing to keep up 1CMC, Thran Foundry gives you the option to "grave hate" opponents or save your own.
EDH Decks
BGGlissa, the TraitorGB
URTibor and LumiaRU
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticBUW
UBSygg, River CutthroatBU
RGXenagos, God of RevelsGR
UGVorel of the Hull CladeGU
GBSavra, Queen of the GolgariBG
URGMaelstrom WandererGRU
Toxic Deluge -> Filth
Took out a couple of the overall stronger cards for cards that work better with the deck as a whole.
Does anyone have any more suggestions for possible changes? I feel like the deck still has a ways to go before it is as good as it can be. Some cards I was thinking about trying out are Varolz, the Scar-Striped as another sac outlet and way to use my dead guys, Lotleth Troll as a discard outlet, and Dread Return as a reanimate that I can use from my graveyard. Thoughts?
GUB [Retired Primer] The Mimeoplasm BUG
Modern: UR Storm RU
Cube: WUBRG Pauper Cube GRBUW
Credit for the banner goes to DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Plane Studios
I've always liked Phyrexian Processor in Jared decks. If you play it early, you can get away with paying 15 life and then just churning out tokens before your opponents have any defenses established. The tokens can end the game quickly on their own and are deadly in the hands of Jared.
It usually hits things that I want to hit. The fact that it can take out something like Rest in Peace or other graveyard disruption and completely dodge all countermagic is huge. Being only 2 mana means that I can cast it early enough to take out stuff like Sol Ring to prevent someone from jumping out too far ahead. And being an Instant is obviously preferable to Pulse's Sorcery speed, so I think it's better overall. Phyrexian Processor seems pretty cool, but I would be afraid that it would just get blown up before I get a chance to use it, which means it would end up just costing me a lot of life.
EDIT: More changes. Filth didn't really work as well as hoped since I don't get Urborg out as reliably.
Nezumi Graverobber -> Lotleth Troll
Filth -> Dread Return
Mortivore -> Varolz, the Scar-Striped
GUB [Retired Primer] The Mimeoplasm BUG
Modern: UR Storm RU
Cube: WUBRG Pauper Cube GRBUW
Credit for the banner goes to DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Plane Studios
There's a good competitive trio of cards that CreativeStorm is hitting on. Phyrexian Processor is just not close to efficient enough to be in the list. Run it in Oloro instead.
Phyrexian Devourer combos with both Jarad as well as Triskelion if you run Necrotic Ooze. While both of them are mediocre cards by themselves, they bin themselves (nice), they're creatures in the GY when dredged, recurrable via Genesis when you need them, pitchable to Survival of the Fittest, etc. Triskelion combos with Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, who in addition is all kinds of value-on-a-stick. Mikaeus, the Unhallowed combos with Woodfall Primus and any sac outlet. Having a creature-based free sac outlet is also of paramount importance, as it's fetchable with every black and green fetch outside of Green Sun's Zenith (I'm not aware of any green sac-another-creature dudes, but I didn't do a gatherer search while posting this). My go-to is Dimir House Guard, since it transmutes for Damnation, Oracle of Mul-Daya, Pattern of Rebirth, etc. as well.
Speaking of creature tutors. There's one card in the game that will search for any creature in your library and put it onto the battlefield at instant speed. It's Chord of Calling, and outside the T1 GSZ into Dryad Arbor, and the reshuffle for use later, it's better than GSZ in pretty much every conceivable way. You know what it feels like when someone attacks into your lone Oracle of Mul-Daya mid-late game and you Chord in a Lord of Extinction and demolish that attacker of theirs? This is what that feels like.
Anymore, I find that running a Sword of Feast and Famine is serving me well; we run so many little value creatures that any single one of them can turn into a huge accelerator. The 3 damage from Wood Elves carrying a sword is negligible; the discard and untap is huge. This deck will drink every ounce of mana you can produce.
I have wound up replacing Maelstrom Pulse with Sever the Bloodline. It's exile at 4, hits like-named creatures (screw you, Talrand!), and flashes back so it's not dead if you've dredged it. I like it. I've found that with gods running around, exile or -X/-X is indispensable. My one problem is when they're not creatures. Good god, how does Green/Black kill an indestructible enchantment? I suppose there are All Is Dust, Karn Liberated, and Fade Into Antiquity (I did do a gatherer search for that one).
Regarding your list:
I malign Deadbridge Chant as unreliable, though its card advantage is undeniable if it sticks. I rate it 0.3 Phyrexian Arenas.
Memory Jar seems like awesome tech for a deck that wants its GY full. I think I'll make a spot to test that.
I've found Deathrite Shaman to be middling, but probably the best 1 CMC dork in the game. I don't run any other 1 CMC dorks either, though.
If Nighthowler's good, Lashwrithe should be great. I haven't tested it. Doesn't pump Jarad from the GY, harder to recur, not pitchable to Fauna Shaman/Survival. Nighthowler is better synergy, but only might be better value. That 4hp equip might make a huge difference when you want to fling, equip, fling for the kill.
Lotleth Troll seems very underwhelming. I'd run ramp in his place.
After a long time of running 37 land, I've cut it down to 35, and do run a couple of the Cultivate, Kodama's Reach, Skyshroud Claim trio. I'm presently of a mind to test Yavimaya Hollow. Seems like good value.
Lotus Cobra's amazing if you have an Oracle or Azusa out. I waffle between which of the two I like more. With black/green you can usually tutor up a Crucible, and Crucible + Azusa + Fetchlands = 6 landfall triggers a turn, plus 3 untapped lands. With Lotus Cobra out, that's 9 mana a turn, 3 permanent, for 3 life, until you run out of targets. The Oracle is card advantage/draw filtering, while Azusa isn't, though. In my list I don't run Cobra, so I run Oracle. If I did run Cobra, I think I'd run Azusa too. She also gets extremely unfair with Wasteland and Strip Mine. The reason I run Oracle over Azusa is that I'm concerned about card advantage.
I also notice you don't run Glissa in the 99. I am so rarely unhappy to see her. Our artifacts do so much for the deck, and another (repeatable!) Regrowth effect as well as an efficient combatant is a strong contender for a slot imo.
I've not found anything that efficiently protects the yard, other than having an Eldrazi that you can Survival into the GY in response. Since one of my favorite things about the deck is that it's so full of moving pieces that aren't game-breaking individually that the deck overall is a bad Bribery target, running Eldrazi is counterproductive. I've learned to stop dredging at 20-25 cards, which statistically provides a lot of value, and you just re-dredge after you're hit. It's not great, but this deck is resilient enough to take it.
I don't really think the cards that rely on me having a lot of Swamps (Nirkana Revenant and Lashwrithe) are good enough since I only run 8 Swamps total, including Overgrown Tomb and Bayou. Cabal Coffers is worth it because it's on a land and if I get it out with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, the mana advantage is just too great. Phyrexian Dreadnought seems like a neat trick, but I'm not sure the payoff is enough to justify the times when it won't be useful for one reason or another. It does work well with Varolz, the Scar-Striped though, so that could make it a little more viable. I think the card you are thinking of is Phyrexian Devourer, which could be a good addition, though I'm not a huge fan of exiling stuff that I won't be able to get back later if I need to. Worldspine Wurm does bring a lot of potential damage, but it also costs a metric ton of mana to pull off. It takes 11 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 = 23, which while it can be spread out over multiple turns, is still something you could only pull off in the very late game. Ghoultree is an interesting option, but by the time he is castable for 1 mana, one of my Lhurgoyf effects would be just as big. Even though he will usually cost less than a to cast, his CMC is still seen as 8 by stuff like Green Sun's Zenith, Birthing Pod, Reanimate, and Phyrexian Delver, which are all downsides with him. All the cards you mentioned seem good with Jarad in general, but I'm not sure that they all work well in my list.
Yeah I ended up keeping Brawn over Filth as well because I don't have Urborg in play reliably enough to ensure that Filth will actually work, whereas Brawn's Trample doesn't really care either way. Once I get a couple big guys down, I can just run people over with them and then sac to Jarad to finish the job.
As you said, Phyrexian Devourer and Triskelion are both kind of mediocre cards on their own, and I also don't like that Devourer exiles the cards so I can't access them later. However, he may still be worth it if I can just end games with him, so I might end up giving him a shot. I'm not really looking to turn this into a combo deck, so a lot of the Necrotic Ooze, Triskelion, and Mikaeus, the Unhallowed combos will have to stay on the bench.
The best sac outlet that you can get with GSZ would be Varolz, the Scar-Striped. He can regenerate just the same as Dimir House Guard, and he also has the ability to scavenge your dead guys, especially your Lhurgoyfs (the characteristic defining ability functions in all zones) to get a ton more +1/+1 counters and sac them to Jarad again. I really want to run Pattern of Rebirth, but it seems really risky if your creature gets hit with removal in response to you casting it, or you draw it without a sac outlet on the board. I also happen to have a Foil copy so that makes me want to play it just that much more. Do you think it's worth it?
Yeah I know about Chord of Calling and it is indeed a pretty awesome option, especially because of the Convoke. I would hate to lose out on the option to have T1 GSZ for Dryad Arbor though, since Dryad does so many other useful things in this deck. For example, yesterday in a game I was playing I dredged it into the graveyard along with Lotus Cobra and then cast a Living Death bringing back a ton of guys. I thought I was one mana short of casting Jarad and sacing my Sewer Nemesis for lethal, but then I realized that my Dryad Arbor caused a landfall trigger from Lotus Cobra and gave me the one more mana that I needed to win that turn instead of waiting until next turn and risking getting hit by a sweeper. It also pitches to Survival of the Fittest and Fauna Shaman, and ramps me if I get it turn 1 with GSZ. I could try to find room for both GSZ and Chord, but that might be tough, especially if I want to fit in Pattern of Rebirth as well. My only copy of Sword of Feast and Famine is in my Ephara deck, and I think it works a lot better there, since this deck doesn't really attack all that much, although the extra mana and forcing a discard are both things that this deck really likes.
I don't play either of those, since I'm keeping my deck pretty light on removal so that I can focus on my own plans. The only ones that I run are Abrupt Decay (very good in my blue-heavy meta), Beast Within, and Krosan Grip (awesome for taking out graveyard hate cards like Relic of Progenitus). I have been pretty satisfied with those, plus a couple in creature form that I can search up or reanimate when I need to. If you're looking for some anti-God tech, I suggest Deglamer and Unravel the Æther, which are even better than exile if the God is their general.
I have to agree on Deadbridge Chant. I really want it to be good and it's sort of a pet card of mine, but it just hasn't worked well enough.
Memory Jar has been awesome the times I have used it. I will generally cast it one turn and then crack it on the next, giving me a new hand of 7 to use for that turn and then adding 20+ more cards to all graveyards, which really helps power up my Lhurgoyf effects.
Deathrite Shaman may not have the huge impact that a lot of cards have, but he flies largely under the radar in this format, and with the way I am filling up graveyards, he can easily drain off 8-10 life from each opponent over a few turns, and he just provides a ton of additional utility beyond that, with ramp, graveyard hate, and lifegain as well.
I actually think Lashwrithe would be way worse than Nighthowler, and I don't really see how they are comparable. Nighthowler's power being equal to the number of creatures in all graveyards means he's often a 10/10 or bigger, while Lashwrithe usually won't get bigger than a 4/4 or 5/5 unless I have Urborg out. Bestowing a Nighthowler, sacing the enchanted creature, then sacing the Nighthowler often just kills everyone with Jarad or draws me so many cards that I can't lose off of Greater Good. I don't think Lashwrithe is even close to as useful.
Lotleth Troll isn't that great of a beater, but having a free discard outlet on a creature, especially one that only costs 2 mana and is targetable by GSZ makes him worth it in my mind. Having ways to get creatures to the graveyard when you need to is really important in this deck, which is why I like to have enough discard and sacrifice outlets.
Cutting down to 35 lands seems really risky. This deck is quite mana hungry, and we want to at least hit our land drop every turn. I don't play a very large ramp package, so that could be part of it. If you feel like you have enough consistency to run only 35 lands, then that's awesome, but I don't really feel comfortable doing that with my current build.
I go with Lotus Cobra for his awesome ramp and Oracle of Mul Daya for the card advantage and draw fixing that it provides. Oracle is especially awesome with Sensei's Divining Top and Sylvan Library.
I really like Glissa, the Traitor, but I don't think I really run enough Artifacts to make her worthwhile. She's very good if you build around her with a lot of Artifacts to recur, but it just doesn't seem like she would slot into this deck very well without some major changes.
Your strategy of just playing around grave hate is basically the same thing that I have been doing. Put enough stuff in the yard to make you appear scary and force someone to use their hate, then reload and go for it again. Eventually they will run out of hate and then it's pretty easy to go for the win. I have also had a few games where I just blew everyone away with insane card advantage off of Greater Good, which I would have to say is easily the best card in the entire deck.
GUB [Retired Primer] The Mimeoplasm BUG
Modern: UR Storm RU
Cube: WUBRG Pauper Cube GRBUW
Credit for the banner goes to DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Plane Studios
Well the thing with relying on Urborg to activate Nirkana and Lashwrithe is that I don't really end up with it on the board all that consistently because I don't play any land tutors specifically to find it. Crop Rotation is a card that I often like to play, but I couldn't find room for it in this list.
GUB [Retired Primer] The Mimeoplasm BUG
Modern: UR Storm RU
Cube: WUBRG Pauper Cube GRBUW
Credit for the banner goes to DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Plane Studios
I really like Lotleth Troll so far because he functions as a great discard outlet that I can find with any of my creature tutors, and I don't have to pay any mana or wait at all to use him.
He does draw quite a bit of hate, especially graveyard hate. I've been able to play around it pretty well so far, probably winning about 40% of the time, which is pretty good for multiplayer, but I haven't gotten enough games in yet to really say for sure.
GUB [Retired Primer] The Mimeoplasm BUG
Modern: UR Storm RU
Cube: WUBRG Pauper Cube GRBUW
Credit for the banner goes to DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Plane Studios
It's a card that I had in the list at one point, but I've had a hard time keeping a slot for it because the list is already very tight in my opinion anyway. I think a card I want to put in over it right now is Pattern of Rebirth, and also Altar of Dementia as an additional graveyard enabler and sac outlet. Deadbridge Chant is definitely getting cut for one of them, but I haven't decided what to switch for the other, and I want to add them together since Pattern really needs sac outlets to support it.
I have actually noticed this as well. People really freak out about Mimic Vat way more than they probably should. Keeping up 3 mana to use the Vat all the time can be a hindrance, especially in a deck that doesn't play a lot of instants and needs to use all of its mana most turns. This is a VERY proactive deck which means we don't really want to pass the turn with open mana unless we have to.
GUB [Retired Primer] The Mimeoplasm BUG
Modern: UR Storm RU
Cube: WUBRG Pauper Cube GRBUW
Credit for the banner goes to DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Plane Studios
Deadbridge Chant -> Pattern of Rebirth
Wurmcoil Engine -> Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
Deadbridge Chant was usually just 4BG: Mill 10, which isn't even close to good enough, so I'm going to try out Pattern of Rebirth, which has a ton of potential in a deck like this which plays plenty of sacrifice outlets. Wurmcoil Engine just doesn't do anything special in this deck, and Mikaeus has the potential to do some extremely powerful things, especially with the aforementioned sacrifice effects. As an added bonus, I recently obtained Foil copies of both of them.
GUB [Retired Primer] The Mimeoplasm BUG
Modern: UR Storm RU
Cube: WUBRG Pauper Cube GRBUW
Credit for the banner goes to DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Plane Studios
Forest -> Swamp
I still want to fit Phyrexian Altar and / or Altar of Dementia into this deck somewhere, so if anyone wants to suggest which card should be cut, I would appreciate your advice. I feel like having a critical mass of sacrifice and discard outlets is really important in a deck like this which wants to be able to put certain cards in the graveyard consistently.
GUB [Retired Primer] The Mimeoplasm BUG
Modern: UR Storm RU
Cube: WUBRG Pauper Cube GRBUW
Credit for the banner goes to DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Plane Studios
Sensei's Divining Top -> Altar of Dementia
This gets me up by one sacrifice outlet, but I wouldn't be opposed to adding one more if I can find room for, and Phyrexian Altar is probably the best choice. Another card which I recently acquired and though might be a decent option for this deck, especially having a lot of sac outlets, is Coffin Queen. Do any of you guys have experience with this card?
GUB [Retired Primer] The Mimeoplasm BUG
Modern: UR Storm RU
Cube: WUBRG Pauper Cube GRBUW
Credit for the banner goes to DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Plane Studios
I run a Dark Depths package containing: Dark Depths, Thespian's Stage, and Vampire Hexmage, with Exploration Map and Crop Rotation to dig up whatever land I need. The latter two cards are also excellent if you need something like Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth or Volrath's Stronghold.
A package like that has excellent synergy with Life From the Loam, and Crucible of Worlds as you can sac Marit Lage over and over for huge benefit.
Other cards to consider:
Crypt of Agadeem - fits well with a deck that focuses on filling the graveyard.
It That Betrays - One of the top animation targets out there. He wins games.
Solemn Simulacrum - You need this. ETB benefit and sweet graveyard trigger, he's a natural fit here.
Genesis - He is great with dredge.
Essence Harvest - Great alternative for when Jarad is M.I.A. and you need to annihilate someone.
Corpse Connoisseur - Great reusable graveyard tutor.
Massacre Wurm - If you have tokens in your meta, he will be worth it.
Cards to consider cutting:
Lhurgoyf - Sewer Nemesis and Lord of Extinction are all I've ever needed for this purpose.
Nighthowler - Same reason as above.
Phyrexian Delver - This card was always 'meh' for me.
Wood Elves - if you adopt Crop Rotation and Expedition Map you will do well without this card.
Brawn - Trample is nice, but depending on the direction you take your deck, you may be able to cut this.
Mindslicer - This depends on meta, but could be cut.
Hermit Druid is definitely really good, but I don't know if I want to lower my basic land count enough to make sure that he reliably hits enough cards.
Altar of Dementia just got added in, and while I haven't had a chance to use it yet, I'm pretty sure it will be awesome.
Expedition Map and especially Crop Rotation are things that I wanted to fit in, but I couldn't really find spots for them, especially since I want to keep my creature count fairly high.
Crypt of Agadeem seems pretty cool, but I hate lands that come into play tapped, and it seems kind of inconsistent, especially in the early game. It is nice that it taps for black though and I have access to a foil copy, so I might give it a try.
It That Betrays just seems like he would be a big fatty that doesn't really do a ton, but costs way more than all my variable power guys, and doesn't get as big. Stealing all the stuff that your opponents sacrifice is awesome, but his annihilator ability is only for 2, so I'll probably just be getting lands / mana rocks / utility creatures that aren't super useful for me.
I ended up cutting Solemn Simulacrum because he's pretty inefficient as far as ramp goes, and I already have a ton of creatures and the 4-drop slot. He definitely gives good value, but there are just better options for everything he does.
Genesis is something I have used in graveyard decks in the past and always found that he is too slow and expensive to actually do what you need him to do. I would always rather just have a reanimation spell, which I why I picked Phyrexian Delver over him at 5 mana.
Essence Harvest just feels really weak and I usually don't have to worry about losing Jarad since I typically only cast him the turn I am going to use him. The fact that it only hits one player rather than everyone makes it a lot worse.
Corpse Connoisseur is pretty cool, but once again, he tends to cost a lot of mana to do what he does, and I often want quantity over quality when it comes to graveyard filling.
My meta is pretty heavy on controlling and board wiping, so I don't think Massacre Wurm would often hit enough targets to be worth it.
Lhurgoyf is definitely one of the weaker cards that's still in my deck, but being able to sac him to Greater Good or Disciple of Bolas and draw 10+ cards is still worth it.
Nighthowler is way better than Lhurgoyf and honestly I wouldn't even consider cutting him. Every single time I have drawn him he has been absolutely amazing.
I already explained my reason for including Phyrexian Delver over Genesis: I usually want my creatures to go from the graveyard to the battlefield right now. This card has saved me when I thought I had no other outs before by virtue of being a creature that reanimates.
I find it strange that you say that I need to add Solemn Simulacrum, but then suggest that I cut Wood Elves, when it is way more efficient at ramping and potentially better at drawing cards as well if I have Skullclamp in play.
Brawn hasn't really done a ton for me yet because I usually win by sacrificing guys to Jarad rather than by attacking, but I could definitely see situations where I would wish to have him in my graveyard. I could also see potentially cutting him though.
Mindslicer has been excellent against many of the control decks in my meta because they either need to tap down their mana to answer him, or else they lose their hand and then are unable to answer whatever I am doing for a follow-up. It doesn't hurt me nearly as much as it hurts everyone else since I am doing a lot of things out of my graveyard, and I have plenty of sac outlets so I can control when he dies.
GUB [Retired Primer] The Mimeoplasm BUG
Modern: UR Storm RU
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In a reanimation deck, It That Betrays is awesome. He can steal games early, and is always worth saccing, opposed to Lhurgoyf and Nighthowler. Also, I'm not sure I've ever hard cast him, you have enough reanimation where his cmc won't matter.
As for Phyrexian Delver, I prefer reanimation like Corpse Dance here. That's just my preference.
We might just play our decks differently (and our decks are obviously a bit different), but I rarely grab forests when I ramp, and considering you don't run Expedition Map or Crop Rotation, it seems that you'll have Urborg, Tomb of yawgmoth out a little less. I like Solemn Simulacrum over the elves, because he can fix your mana (especially with a color-demanding general like Jarad), and draw cards by himself. You also have enough sac outlets that Skullclamp works just as well on him. Also, he is my go-to in the Birthing Pod chain, sometimes I'll grab Oracle if I'm not comfortable with ramp.
Essence Harvest has been an all star for me. If Jarad gets tucked, countered, removed before you can activate him, this card allows you to knock a problematic player out of the game and ensure a victory. Your mileage may vary, but if you start having problems activating the bossman, this card is worth a try.
I think you have a pretty good start here, happy saccing!
You could be right on Hermit Druid, although I'm still not completely sold since he's rather slow without haste and he has the stigma of being a combo enabler which paints a big target on his / my back.
The big selling point for Phyrexian Delver is that I can access it with stuff that only interacts with creatures, like Birthing Pod, Jarad's Orders, Survival of the Fittest, etc. If I am struggling to draw a reanimation effect, having the flexibility to search up the Delver with creature tutors can make all the difference.
As far as Solemn Simulacrum and color fixing, my Wood Elves can search up Overgrown Tomb or Bayou as well as basic forests, meaning that he fixes just as well as, if not better than Solemn. Solemn is a great value creature in a lot of decks, but I believe that he doesn't belong in most green decks since they have much better ways to ramp, and cantripping when he dies hardly counts as draw. My infrequent access to Urborg is the reason why I cut Filth. Unblockable is better than Trample, but the inconsistency with Swampwalk just wasn't worth it. Crop Rotation is still awesome and I want to play it if I can make room, but it is a little less awesome when it's not grabbing instant speed Bojuka Bog.
I will keep Essence Harvest in mind if I ever feel like I need an alternative to Jarad, but so far he has been enough.
GUB [Retired Primer] The Mimeoplasm BUG
Modern: UR Storm RU
Cube: WUBRG Pauper Cube GRBUW
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Forest -> Joraga Treespeaker
Swamp -> Birds of Paradise
Lhurgoyf -> Sensei's Divining Top
Brawn -> Night's Whisper
Pattern of Rebirth -> Diabolic Revelation
Dakmor Salvage -> Crypt of Agadeem
GUB [Retired Primer] The Mimeoplasm BUG
Modern: UR Storm RU
Cube: WUBRG Pauper Cube GRBUW
Credit for the banner goes to DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Plane Studios
I managed to pull off a turn 5 kill the other day after I was heavily pressured by a Kaalia deck. Turn 2 Mesmeric Orb was key to filling up graveyards, combined with Golgari Grave-Troll I had enough fuel to play Jarad on turn 4 and then reanimate a lethal Lord of Extinction on turn 5, although I had to go about it in a roundabout way since I was only on 4 life. Reanimate had to target Eternal Witness and put me to 1 life, with Witness returning Birds of Paradise, which gave me enough creatures to sac for a flashback Dread Return to get Lord of Extinction out and save enough mana for the kill with Jarad. I like where the deck is going, but I'm not sure that I'm super comfortable with only 35 lands, especially with a few like Cabal Coffers, Dryad Arbor, and Crypt of Agadeem not being very good early on. I think ideally I would cut a utility land and a nonland card to add two basics and go up to 36 lands, though I'm not sure what changes would be ideal.
GUB [Retired Primer] The Mimeoplasm BUG
Modern: UR Storm RU
Cube: WUBRG Pauper Cube GRBUW
Credit for the banner goes to DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Plane Studios
stitch together
exquisite blood
rings of brighthearth
death's presence
dictate of erebos
anvil of bogardan
worm harvest
glissa, the traitor
liliana of the veil
oversold cemetery
mosswort bridge
My Trade Thread
Also, Life's Legacy out of M15 is perfect for this deck, so I will need to find a spot for that card.
GUB [Retired Primer] The Mimeoplasm BUG
Modern: UR Storm RU
Cube: WUBRG Pauper Cube GRBUW
Credit for the banner goes to DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Plane Studios