Cycling lands (Barren Moor and Forgotten Cave) didn't seem to do me much good. Also, I just can't justify buying or holding onto partially off-color fetchlands for a bit of deck thinning.
I hadn't thought much about colorless accel in a 3 color deck. I'm not about to spring for Mana Crypt, but I do have a spare Ancient Tomb. I'll put that in for one of the basics.
Ha. Glad to see someone else with the Bolas-flavoured grindy Grixis control. I've been enjoying Nin a bit more for the easier manabase (I can build any mana on MODO though) but since our decks are doing similar things, I should post mine here for this thread too.
Ha. Glad to see someone else with the Bolas-flavoured grindy Grixis control. I've been enjoying Nin a bit more for the easier manabase (I can build any mana on MODO though) but since our decks are doing similar things, I should post mine here for this thread too.
Yay, apparently I'm onto something.
I suppose you could say this is UBR goodstuff with Bolas as the finisher.
I did actually use Grixis-art Shards of Alara basics. (and some heavily played Islands from my first deck and an Alpha Swamp - most ancient evil and all that.)
I admit I've got a lot of proxies in the Bolas manabase. I have some of the missing cards in other decks or my collection binder. I know that wouldn't be a problem online, but I only play paper.
I use Niv Mizzet as my UR general, and that hasn't been doing well, so maybe I need to get with the times.
I would like to take a look at your decklist, but I don't see it.
Ha. Glad to see someone else with the Bolas-flavoured grindy Grixis control. I've been enjoying Nin a bit more for the easier manabase (I can build any mana on MODO though) but since our decks are doing similar things, I should post mine here for this thread too.
Yay, apparently I'm onto something.
I suppose you could say this is UBR goodstuff with Bolas as the finisher.
I did actually use Grixis-art Shards of Alara basics. (and some heavily played Islands from my first deck and an Alpha Swamp - most ancient evil and all that.)
I admit I've got a lot of proxies in the Bolas manabase. I have some of the missing cards in other decks or my collection binder. I know that wouldn't be a problem online, but I only play paper.
I use Niv Mizzet as my UR general, and that hasn't been doing well, so maybe I need to get with the times.
I would like to take a look at your decklist, but I don't see it.
Yeah, I use Bolas as my finisher of choice as well. It's funny, because when we're ready to end it and Bolas resolves, they know what's going to happen but they can't do anything to stop it...
My list isn't on the forums (I need to grab the .txt file and sort it out for you). As my sig suggests, it's my Grixis rendition of Weissman's "The Deck". So it's a lot of fun, but it is not a cheap deck to build at all.
Yeah, I use Bolas as my finisher of choice as well. It's funny, because when we're ready to end it and Bolas resolves, they know what's going to happen but they can't do anything to stop it...
My list isn't on the forums (I need to grab the .txt file and sort it out for you). As my sig suggests, it's my Grixis rendition of Weissman's "The Deck". So it's a lot of fun, but it is not a cheap deck to build at all.
Aren't a lot of finishers like that? And Lightning Graves or Clout of the Dominus give even less time to do anything about it.
Mana Drain, Mind Twist and Timetwister seem to be the main in-color non-banned cards in those decklists but not mine. Yeah, Mana Drain and Timetwister aren't going to happen, but other counters and Wheel of Fortune seem like good budget replacements. Mind Twist is a possibility, though. Maybe I'll cut Dimir Machinations - Transmute often seems overrated. (I like Muddle the Mixture because it's not bad by itself, especially because I obviously can't play multiples of other counters)
Yeah, I use Bolas as my finisher of choice as well. It's funny, because when we're ready to end it and Bolas resolves, they know what's going to happen but they can't do anything to stop it...
My list isn't on the forums (I need to grab the .txt file and sort it out for you). As my sig suggests, it's my Grixis rendition of Weissman's "The Deck". So it's a lot of fun, but it is not a cheap deck to build at all.
Aren't a lot of finishers like that? And Lightning Graves or Clout of the Dominus give even less time to do anything about it.
Mana Drain, Mind Twist and Timetwister seem to be the main in-color non-banned cards in those decklists but not mine. Yeah, Mana Drain and Timetwister aren't going to happen, but other counters and Wheel of Fortune seem like good budget replacements. Mind Twist is a possibility, though. Maybe I'll cut Dimir Machinations - Transmute often seems overrated. (I like Muddle the Mixture because it's not bad by itself, especially because I obviously can't play multiples of other counters)
I still need a Drain - it's ~$30 on MODO but I'm between jobs. Someday though. And Power isn't available (except in the WotC Cube) so I don't get to play 'Twister - not that I was going to anyway (same goes for Wheel of Fortune you mentioned). We have more than enough ways to build CA that we don't need to give them a fresh hand too.
A couple of notes off the top of my head you might think are odd.
- The one bounceland and lair land are there for Bojuka and Halimar (Vesuva can also do this role, and three cars devoted to this trick should be more than enough over the course of a game). Additionally, they can help us beat Land Tax by messing with land counts.
- Steel Sabotage...is really f*n incredible. If you haven't played it, give it a shot - I'd never lave home without it.
- All three of the Zeniths perform a pivotal role in the deck; 1) Hand refill, 2) On-call sweeper, 3) On-call exile. These are your "bread and butter" cards.
- Toxic Deluge is a recent addition (it's spot was formerly Pyroclasm). Thus far I like how Toxic is working out, but if you feel you absolutely need to sweep on t2, 'Clasm is superior. That's a call only you can make of course - I don't know your metagame after all.
- Elixir of Immortality provides us inevitability. And hey, the lifegain is sometimes useful too. But yes, it is largely to keep recycling our removals and discards.
- Tezzeret the Seeker's primary job is to act as a UGarruk Wildspeaker, but if you need to grab an O-Stone, then do what you gotta do. It's nice that it sometimes moonlights as a win-con too.
Any other question feel free to ask. Hope my list helps you.
Mana Drain, Mind Twist and Timetwister seem to be the main in-color non-banned cards in [The Deck] but not mine. Yeah, Mana Drain and Timetwister aren't going to happen, but other counters and Wheel of Fortune seem like good budget replacements. Mind Twist is a possibility, though. Maybe I'll cut Dimir Machinations - Transmute often seems overrated. (I like Muddle the Mixture because it's not bad by itself, especially because I obviously can't play multiples of other counters)
I still need a Drain - it's ~$30 on MODO but I'm between jobs. Someday though. And Power isn't available (except in the WotC Cube) so I don't get to play 'Twister - not that I was going to anyway (same goes for Wheel of Fortune you mentioned). We have more than enough ways to build CA that we don't need to give them a fresh hand too.
Some ~$30 cards I might consider, but for me, it's $100+ in paper.
I figured that all the discard in this deck makes symmetrical draw somewhat one-sided. A lot of Magic strategy seems to be about making supposedly balanced effects only or mainly benefit you.
A couple of notes off the top of my head you might think are odd.
- The one bounceland and lair land are there for Bojuka and Halimar (Vesuva can also do this role, and three cars devoted to this trick should be more than enough over the course of a game). Additionally, they can help us beat Land Tax by messing with land counts.
- Steel Sabotage...is really f*n incredible. If you haven't played it, give it a shot - I'd never leave home without it.
- All three of the Zeniths perform a pivotal role in the deck; 1) Hand refill, 2) On-call sweeper, 3) On-call exile. These are your "bread and butter" cards.
- Toxic Deluge is a recent addition (it's spot was formerly Pyroclasm). Thus far I like how Toxic is working out, but if you feel you absolutely need to sweep on t2, 'Clasm is superior. That's a call only you can make of course - I don't know your metagame after all.
- Elixir of Immortality provides us inevitability. And hey, the lifegain is sometimes useful too. But yes, it is largely to keep recycling our removals and discards.
- Tezzeret the Seeker's primary job is to act as a UGarruk Wildspeaker, but if you need to grab an O-Stone, then do what you gotta do. It's nice that it sometimes moonlights as a win-con too.
Any other question feel free to ask. Hope my list helps you.
I have more of a take control theme than you do, and also the Lightning Graves/Clout of the Dominus help for Bolas. That doesn't immediately seem good or bad, though you do have good ideas if I decide to go in another direction.
I was already thinking of breaking up my 15-proxy Vintage Oath build. Amongst other things, that frees up a Thoughtseize, non-proxy FoW and some pimp for this deck.
I do run Tezzeret. You mean to compare his untap ability to Garruk's? Yeah, he's fun (and a removal magnet). He is sometimes good for grabbing other artifacts. It's particularly amusing to use him to tutor for mana producing artifacts. The Talismans are an interesting idea there.
Liliana of the Veil? Holy crap. Her price? Same. Yeah, my budget concerns do limit what I can do with this. Also, that's one of the new cards I hadn't been aware of yet. Speaking of budget, I'm not going to run partially off color fetchlands for a bit of deck thinning.
I suppose I may as well put in 1 each of the snow lands against cardname shenanigans.
I notice you don't have Nevinyrral's Disk, Phyrexian Arena or Gilded Lotus. I was already thinking of taking them out for being slow.
I might use Feldon's Cane instead of Elixir of Immortality.
I hadn't thought of Crosis' Catacombs or Crumbling Necropolis, but I don't want to slow down my manabase, even for fixing and cool tricks. I love Crosis' Charm, though - 3 CMC isn't bad for any one of those effects, especially when I'm already running 2 CMC versions and am in those colors.
I don't like counters that limit what they can target evne if they're cheap
Cyclonic Rift looks like fun. Should Far // Away replace Diabolic Edict or one of my existing bounce effects?
Here's my list as it looks with a few of your suggestions:
Yeah, I don't run the Disk because I sometimes can't afford to wait a turn to pop it. Arena is still acceptable if you don't have perfect mana (I wouldn't play Necro in three colour without perfect mana).
Don't use Feldon's - use Elixir instead. The lifegain is surprisingly relevant and it shuffles itself as well, as opposed to Feldon's exiling itself.
Necropolis is worth coming in tapped - we're a control deck, one land EBT in exchange for making all of our colours is very acceptable. The fetchlands provide more than "minuscule deck thinning" (which is an aspect not even worth considering at all). They're all so good with Divining Top, Crucible-Fetch ensures you never miss a land drop again, Brainstorm, and the ability to leave them uncracked and blank opposing Stone Rains (or hold off on them and crack in response to a Moon so that you can still have your colours [this and Chromatic Lantern are our primary defense versus Moon anyway]. Definitely get these as soon as you can afford them).
Yeah, having Swan Song or Spell Snare may seem like they limit, but in actuality, take a closer look at the spells that are being hurled towards you - you'll see these cards aren't as restrictive as they appear on paper (I'll gladly trade your Ranger's Path for a 2/2 flyer). Also, one of the banes of this style deck is t2 Sylvan Library when we're on the draw - these are some of the few cards that can stop that from happening. Annul almost made the cut, but I like Steel Sabotage too damn much haha.
C. Rift is a blast - especially in response to a Bolas damage trigger. Far/Away should replace Terror in your list, I think. It's fairly lacklustre as far as removal goes. Man, Far/Away is a really great value card. Crosis' Charm is really a hidden gem - Dark Banishing, Regress, or Shatter in one card. Funny story about that, I kept running into artifact-related problems (mainly swords), and I was up late one night checking out Charms for modal spells. I ran across this and like "Omg, I think I'm in love". Everything I could have ever asked for. i'm very happy to cast it for three mana. Speaking of silver bullets, why no Rakdos Charm? A Shatter or Tormod's Crypt are it's usual modes, but it can be nice versus token hoards like Elfball or Splinter Twin combos.
Journeyer's Kite can go. And I suppose Lim-Dul's Vault is superfluous given Top.
I knew Elixir shuffled in, but I thought a game wouldn't have lasted long enough to make that relevant. Yeah, I suppose the lifegain wouldn't hurt.
Yeah, this deck doesn't have other ways to deal with artifacts besides counter or bounce.
Ooh, I hadn't even thought about Cyclonic Rift then discard.
So I was wrong on the rationale for the fetches. Also, I knew they could do a bit of fixing by grabbing a dual or shock (say crack Verdant Catacombs for Watery Grave). But I still can't afford them, especially for a secondary use.
Okay, I'll consider the Crumbling Necropolis at least.
Journeyer's Kite can go. And I suppose Lim-Dul's Vault is superfluous given Top.
I knew Elixir shuffled in, but I thought a game wouldn't have lasted long enough to make that relevant. Yeah, I suppose the lifegain wouldn't hurt.
Yeah, this deck doesn't have other ways to deal with artifacts besides counter or bounce.
Ooh, I hadn't even thought about Cyclonic Rift then discard.
So I was wrong on the rationale for the fetches. Also, I knew they could do a bit of fixing by grabbing a dual or shock (say crack Verdant Catacombs for Watery Grave). But I still can't afford them, especially for a secondary use.
Okay, I'll consider the Crumbling Necropolis at least.
Lim-Dul's Vault is still a good card. I don't play it because it's a -1 CA (it's nice to stack the top five, but I want to put a card into my hand to replace it). And, sometimes if I stack the top five, I can't use a fetchland or else I'll lose the benefit of it.
This deck plays for the late game - I exhaust your resources/threats and then take over with inevitability. So Elixir helps me a good deal in accomplishing that.
Artifacts were a problem, yeah. They slip through counters (let a Sword/Jitte resolve because you think you can keep them off critters) but that sword of Fire and Ice was a beating against me. It's nice to have a couple of options to outright destroy them.
I understand the fetchlands are expensive. It took me the last three years to finally get them all online. But it's so worth it when you can.
I'm glad you were able to pick up a few ideas from my list. =)
Journeyer's Kite can go. And I suppose Lim-Dul's Vault is superfluous given Top.
I knew Elixir shuffled in, but I thought a game wouldn't have lasted long enough to make that relevant. Yeah, I suppose the lifegain wouldn't hurt.
Yeah, this deck doesn't have other ways to deal with artifacts besides counter or bounce.
Ooh, I hadn't even thought about Cyclonic Rift then discard.
So I was wrong on the rationale for the fetches. Also, I knew they could do a bit of fixing by grabbing a dual or shock (say crack Verdant Catacombs for Watery Grave). But I still can't afford them, especially for a secondary use.
Okay, I'll consider the Crumbling Necropolis at least.
Lim-Dul's Vault is still a good card. I don't play it because it's a -1 CA (it's nice to stack the top five, but I want to put a card into my hand to replace it). And, sometimes if I stack the top five, I can't use a fetchland or else I'll lose the benefit of it.
This deck plays for the late game - I exhaust your resources/threats and then take over with inevitability. So Elixir helps me a good deal in accomplishing that.
Artifacts were a problem, yeah. They slip through counters (let a Sword/Jitte resolve because you think you can keep them off critters) but that sword of Fire and Ice was a beating against me. It's nice to have a couple of options to outright destroy them.
I understand the fetchlands are expensive. It took me the last three years to finally get them all online. But it's so worth it when you can.
I'm glad you were able to pick up a few ideas from my list. =)
Yeah, Lim-Dul's Vault seems like one of the few decent cards in Alliances even though it doesn't fit this deck in particular.
I'll try Elixir eventually. I know it's dirt cheap, but I don't have one handy, and I don't have much else on my singles shopping list right now.
I don't want to simply netdeck you, but I think I have headed in the right direction, and maybe after further reflection, I'll take up more of your suggestions.
Yeah, Lim-Dul's Vault seems like one of the few decent cards in Alliances even though it doesn't fit this deck in particular.
I'll try Elixir eventually. I know it's dirt cheap, but I don't have one handy, and I don't have much else on my singles shopping list right now.
I don't want to simply netdeck you, but I think I have headed in the right direction, and maybe after further reflection, I'll take up more of your suggestions.
"Netdeck" me? I wouldn't call it that at all - you're playing good cards that help further your strategy. You asked for help and suggestions on your deck, and I replied with things that have worked for me. The "netdeck" concept is fairly misguided anyway - does it really matter if two players play similar decks? Why should one player get to play good cards while the other player can't because "someone else plays them"? Haha, play what's strong, what's good for your deck; and most importantly, play what wins.
I've spent about a year on honing that decklist to find what works. And if my hard work can help others? I'll take that as a compliment, man.
I don't want to simply netdeck you, but I think I have headed in the right direction, and maybe after further reflection, I'll take up more of our suggestions.
"Netdeck" me? I wouldn't call it that at all - you're playing good cards that help further your strategy. You asked for help and suggestions on your deck, and I replied with things that have worked for me. The "netdeck" concept is fairly misguided anyway - does it really matter if two players play similar decks? Why should one player get to play good cards while the other player can't because "someone else plays them"? Haha, play what's strong, what's good for your deck; and most importantly, play what wins.
I've spent about a year on honing that decklist to find what works. And if my hard work can help others? I'll take that as a compliment, man.
You have indeed been very helpful.
What I meant by netdeck was to blindly copy without understanding; I have no problem with using good ideas knowing why they're good ideas. Incidentally, netdecking in that sense could lead to trouble actually piloting a deck.
We both noticed we already had a lot of the same cards and strategies - people often independently arrive at similar ideas. This is hardly limited to MTG; Newton and Leibniz both coming up with calculus comes to mind.
What I meant by netdeck was to blindly copy without understanding; I have no problem with using good ideas knowing why they're good ideas. Incidentally, netdecking in that sense could lead to trouble actually piloting a deck.
We both noticed we already had a lot of the same cards and strategies - people often independently arrive at similar ideas. This is hardly limited to MTG; Newton and Leibniz both coming up with calculus comes to mind.
Ah, yes, the guy who watches a pro play something at a big GP then copies that list down five minutes before FNM. That's the a-typical "bad netdecker", and the guy who commonly wonders why he goes 2-2 at said FNM haha. I see - and glad to know that you aren't that guy.
Ah, yes, the guy who watches a pro play something at a big GP then copies that list down five minutes before FNM. That's the a-typical "bad netdecker", and the guy who commonly wonders why he goes 2-2 at said FNM haha. I see - and glad to know that you aren't that guy.
LOL.
Anyway, I haven't actually played this deck much against real opponents, mainly testing against my other decks by piloting them all myself, so I can't say too much about metagame decisions.
Ah, yes, the guy who watches a pro play something at a big GP then copies that list down five minutes before FNM. That's the a-typical "bad netdecker", and the guy who commonly wonders why he goes 2-2 at said FNM haha. I see - and glad to know that you aren't that guy.
LOL.
Anyway, I haven't actually played this deck much against real opponents, mainly testing against my other decks by piloting them all myself, so I can't say too much about metagame decisions.
Ah. So you have the "theoretical experience" but lack in the "actual experience". It's hard to play as both decks objectively - human nature wants to favour one or the other. If I can get my desktop up and running (my laptop has weak specs) I should record some of my games on MODO with our friendly Elder Dragon for you.
Ah. So you have the "theoretical experience" but lack in the "actual experience". It's hard to play as both decks objectively - human nature wants to favour one or the other. If I can get my desktop up and running (my laptop has weak specs) I should record some of my games on MODO with our friendly Elder Dragon for you.
I was intending to update MWS and test there. Such tests, whether by myself or on MWS, are a large part of how I like to play the game.
Played 1 game on MWS. Fun win vs. Daxos of Meletis mill. Was surprised to see mill in EDH. Anyway:
Crumbling Necropolis was my t1 play and was needed colorfixing. That and Scalding Tarn for Volcanic Island was how I paid the RR in Bolas' cost. Ancient Tomb was really useful too especially early.
I had plenty of disruption to keep him from getting off anything big like Traumatize. Mystical Tutor for Mind Twist was fun.
I got Lightning Greaves out early. I also waited until I could hardcast Mulldrifter. That chumped Daxos the 1st time and kept my opponent from attacking with, ironically, Augur of Bolas.
Time Spiral recycled my graveyard in addition to its usual fun stuff. I wasn't able to cast Bolas right afterwards, but I did get and play Sol Ring and Dimir Signet and some other fun stuff. Prognostic Sphinx chumped Bolas once, but once Bolas was out, it was basically game.
Played 1 game on MWS. Fun win vs. Daxos of Meletis mill. Was surprised to see mill in EDH. Anyway:
Crumbling Necropolis was my t1 play and was needed colorfixing. That and Scalding Tarn for Volcanic Island was how I paid the RR in Bolas' cost. Ancient Tomb was really useful too especially early.
I had plenty of disruption to keep him from getting off anything big like Traumatize. Mystical Tutor for Mind Twist was fun.
I got Lightning Greaves out early. I also waited until I could hardcast Mulldrifter. That chumped Daxos the 1st time and kept my opponent from attacking with, ironically, Augur of Bolas.
Time Spiral recycled my graveyard in addition to its usual fun stuff. I wasn't able to cast Bolas right afterwards, but I did get and play Sol Ring and Dimir Signet and some other fun stuff. Prognostic Sphinx chumped Bolas once, but once Bolas was out, it was basically game.
Yup. Funny how when Bolas drops, it's just inevitable. That certain...feeling of dread taking over their facial features. They know what's coming, and that there isn't anything they can do to stop it from happening. It's my favourite aspect of this deck.
1 Nicol Bolas
Land (41)
1 Badlands
1 Blood Crypt
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 City of Brass
1 Command Tower
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Graven Cairns
10 Island
1 Maze of Ith
4 Mountain
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Steam Vents
1 Strip Mine
6 Swamp
1 Underground Sea
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Volcanic Island
1 Wasteland
1 Watery Grave
Creature (2)
1 Mulldrifter
1 Solemn Simulacrum
Sorcery (14)
1 Beseech the Queen
1 Blatant Thievery
1 Bribery
1 Cruel Ultimatum
1 Damnation
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Dimir Machinations
1 Duress
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Ponder
1 Slave of Bolas
1 Time Spiral
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Boomerang
1 Brainstorm
1 Capsize
1 Counterspell
1 Cryptic Command
1 Desertion
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Double Negative
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Faerie Trickery
1 Forbid
1 Force of Will
1 Hinder
1 Lim-Dul's Vault
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Spelljack
1 Telling Time
1 Terminate
1 Terror
1 Trickbind
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Wipe Away
Enchantment (7)
1 Clout of the Dominus
1 Confiscate
1 Control Magic
1 Future Sight
1 Necropotence
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Treachery
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Dimir Signet
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Izzet Signet
1 Journeyer's Kite
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
Planeswalker (3)
1 Liliana Vess
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
Cycling lands (Barren Moor and Forgotten Cave) didn't seem to do me much good. Also, I just can't justify buying or holding onto partially off-color fetchlands for a bit of deck thinning.
Vintage: Dredge | Legacy: Burn, Goblins, Soldier | Standard: Mono-Red Aggro
Commander: Nicol Bolas, Sliver Overlord, Rafiq
Casual: Selesnya Saproling Smackdown, Izzet Labs, Rebel
Played since June 2004, mostly inactive June 2011 to March 2018
Other usernames include AlanFromRochester, homerthebeerbaron
MTG checklists from Alpha to Ravnica Allegiance - https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/other-magic-products/third-party-products/805324-checklists-for-everything-from-alpha-to-ravnica
I know, but I was following the WOTC banlist:
https://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Resources.aspx?x=magic/rules/100cardsingleton-commander
I did already cut Gifts Ungiven for that reason
I've seen the French banlist, I don't care for it. I understand that this subforum isn't just for discussing decks built for French rules.
Vintage: Dredge | Legacy: Burn, Goblins, Soldier | Standard: Mono-Red Aggro
Commander: Nicol Bolas, Sliver Overlord, Rafiq
Casual: Selesnya Saproling Smackdown, Izzet Labs, Rebel
Played since June 2004, mostly inactive June 2011 to March 2018
Other usernames include AlanFromRochester, homerthebeerbaron
MTG checklists from Alpha to Ravnica Allegiance - https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/other-magic-products/third-party-products/805324-checklists-for-everything-from-alpha-to-ravnica
I hadn't thought much about colorless accel in a 3 color deck. I'm not about to spring for Mana Crypt, but I do have a spare Ancient Tomb. I'll put that in for one of the basics.
Vintage: Dredge | Legacy: Burn, Goblins, Soldier | Standard: Mono-Red Aggro
Commander: Nicol Bolas, Sliver Overlord, Rafiq
Casual: Selesnya Saproling Smackdown, Izzet Labs, Rebel
Played since June 2004, mostly inactive June 2011 to March 2018
Other usernames include AlanFromRochester, homerthebeerbaron
MTG checklists from Alpha to Ravnica Allegiance - https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/other-magic-products/third-party-products/805324-checklists-for-everything-from-alpha-to-ravnica
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Yay, apparently I'm onto something.
I suppose you could say this is UBR goodstuff with Bolas as the finisher.
I did actually use Grixis-art Shards of Alara basics. (and some heavily played Islands from my first deck and an Alpha Swamp - most ancient evil and all that.)
I admit I've got a lot of proxies in the Bolas manabase. I have some of the missing cards in other decks or my collection binder. I know that wouldn't be a problem online, but I only play paper.
I use Niv Mizzet as my UR general, and that hasn't been doing well, so maybe I need to get with the times.
I would like to take a look at your decklist, but I don't see it.
Vintage: Dredge | Legacy: Burn, Goblins, Soldier | Standard: Mono-Red Aggro
Commander: Nicol Bolas, Sliver Overlord, Rafiq
Casual: Selesnya Saproling Smackdown, Izzet Labs, Rebel
Played since June 2004, mostly inactive June 2011 to March 2018
Other usernames include AlanFromRochester, homerthebeerbaron
MTG checklists from Alpha to Ravnica Allegiance - https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/other-magic-products/third-party-products/805324-checklists-for-everything-from-alpha-to-ravnica
Yeah, I use Bolas as my finisher of choice as well. It's funny, because when we're ready to end it and Bolas resolves, they know what's going to happen but they can't do anything to stop it...
My list isn't on the forums (I need to grab the .txt file and sort it out for you). As my sig suggests, it's my Grixis rendition of Weissman's "The Deck". So it's a lot of fun, but it is not a cheap deck to build at all.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Aren't a lot of finishers like that? And Lightning Graves or Clout of the Dominus give even less time to do anything about it.
Mana Drain, Mind Twist and Timetwister seem to be the main in-color non-banned cards in those decklists but not mine. Yeah, Mana Drain and Timetwister aren't going to happen, but other counters and Wheel of Fortune seem like good budget replacements. Mind Twist is a possibility, though. Maybe I'll cut Dimir Machinations - Transmute often seems overrated. (I like Muddle the Mixture because it's not bad by itself, especially because I obviously can't play multiples of other counters)
Vintage: Dredge | Legacy: Burn, Goblins, Soldier | Standard: Mono-Red Aggro
Commander: Nicol Bolas, Sliver Overlord, Rafiq
Casual: Selesnya Saproling Smackdown, Izzet Labs, Rebel
Played since June 2004, mostly inactive June 2011 to March 2018
Other usernames include AlanFromRochester, homerthebeerbaron
MTG checklists from Alpha to Ravnica Allegiance - https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/other-magic-products/third-party-products/805324-checklists-for-everything-from-alpha-to-ravnica
I still need a Drain - it's ~$30 on MODO but I'm between jobs. Someday though. And Power isn't available (except in the WotC Cube) so I don't get to play 'Twister - not that I was going to anyway (same goes for Wheel of Fortune you mentioned). We have more than enough ways to build CA that we don't need to give them a fresh hand too.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
1 Nicol Bolas
Creatures
1 Gilded Drake
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
Enchantments
1 Necropotence
1 Treachery
Artifacts
1 Mana Crypt
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Dimir Signet
1 Izzet Signet
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Talisman of Dominance
1 Talisman of Indulgence
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Oblivion Stone
Planeswalkers
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
Sorceries
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Duress
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Preordain
1 Thoughtseize
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Night's Whisper
1 Grim Tutor
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Damnation
1 Cruel Ultimatum
Inevitability
1 Red Sun's Zenith
1 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
Instants
1 Brainstorm
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Spell Snare
1 Steel Sabotage
1 Swan Song
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Remand
1 Terminate
1 Chaos Warp
1 Counterspell
1 Crosis's Charm
1 Electrolyze
1 Hero's Downfall
1 Cryptic Command
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Mystical Teachings
1 Far/Away
Lands
1 Academy Ruins
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Arid Mesa
1 Badlands
1 Blood Crypt
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Bojuka Bog
1 City of Brass
1 Command Tower
1 Crosis's Catacombs
1 Crumbling Necropolis
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Dust Bowl
1 Flooded Strand
1 Graven Cairns
1 Halimar Depths
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Marsh Flats
1 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
1 Strip Mine
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Sunken Ruins
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Underground Sea
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Vesuva
1 Volcanic Island
1 Watery Grave
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
A couple of notes off the top of my head you might think are odd.
- The one bounceland and lair land are there for Bojuka and Halimar (Vesuva can also do this role, and three cars devoted to this trick should be more than enough over the course of a game). Additionally, they can help us beat Land Tax by messing with land counts.
- Steel Sabotage...is really f*n incredible. If you haven't played it, give it a shot - I'd never lave home without it.
- All three of the Zeniths perform a pivotal role in the deck; 1) Hand refill, 2) On-call sweeper, 3) On-call exile. These are your "bread and butter" cards.
- Toxic Deluge is a recent addition (it's spot was formerly Pyroclasm). Thus far I like how Toxic is working out, but if you feel you absolutely need to sweep on t2, 'Clasm is superior. That's a call only you can make of course - I don't know your metagame after all.
- Elixir of Immortality provides us inevitability. And hey, the lifegain is sometimes useful too. But yes, it is largely to keep recycling our removals and discards.
- Tezzeret the Seeker's primary job is to act as a U Garruk Wildspeaker, but if you need to grab an O-Stone, then do what you gotta do. It's nice that it sometimes moonlights as a win-con too.
Any other question feel free to ask. Hope my list helps you.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Some ~$30 cards I might consider, but for me, it's $100+ in paper.
I figured that all the discard in this deck makes symmetrical draw somewhat one-sided. A lot of Magic strategy seems to be about making supposedly balanced effects only or mainly benefit you.
Vintage: Dredge | Legacy: Burn, Goblins, Soldier | Standard: Mono-Red Aggro
Commander: Nicol Bolas, Sliver Overlord, Rafiq
Casual: Selesnya Saproling Smackdown, Izzet Labs, Rebel
Played since June 2004, mostly inactive June 2011 to March 2018
Other usernames include AlanFromRochester, homerthebeerbaron
MTG checklists from Alpha to Ravnica Allegiance - https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/other-magic-products/third-party-products/805324-checklists-for-everything-from-alpha-to-ravnica
I have more of a take control theme than you do, and also the Lightning Graves/Clout of the Dominus help for Bolas. That doesn't immediately seem good or bad, though you do have good ideas if I decide to go in another direction.
I was already thinking of breaking up my 15-proxy Vintage Oath build. Amongst other things, that frees up a Thoughtseize, non-proxy FoW and some pimp for this deck.
I do run Tezzeret. You mean to compare his untap ability to Garruk's? Yeah, he's fun (and a removal magnet). He is sometimes good for grabbing other artifacts. It's particularly amusing to use him to tutor for mana producing artifacts. The Talismans are an interesting idea there.
Liliana of the Veil? Holy crap. Her price? Same. Yeah, my budget concerns do limit what I can do with this. Also, that's one of the new cards I hadn't been aware of yet. Speaking of budget, I'm not going to run partially off color fetchlands for a bit of deck thinning.
I suppose I may as well put in 1 each of the snow lands against cardname shenanigans.
I notice you don't have Nevinyrral's Disk, Phyrexian Arena or Gilded Lotus. I was already thinking of taking them out for being slow.
I might use Feldon's Cane instead of Elixir of Immortality.
I hadn't thought of Crosis' Catacombs or Crumbling Necropolis, but I don't want to slow down my manabase, even for fixing and cool tricks. I love Crosis' Charm, though - 3 CMC isn't bad for any one of those effects, especially when I'm already running 2 CMC versions and am in those colors.
I don't like counters that limit what they can target evne if they're cheap
Cyclonic Rift looks like fun. Should Far // Away replace Diabolic Edict or one of my existing bounce effects?
Here's my list as it looks with a few of your suggestions:
1 Nicol Bolas
Land (41)
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Badlands
1 Blood Crypt
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 City of Brass
1 Command Tower
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Graven Cairns
9 Island
1 Maze of Ith
2 Mountain
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Steam Vents
1 Strip Mine
5 Swamp
1 Underground Sea
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Volcanic Island
1 Wasteland
1 Watery Grave
Creature (2)
1 Mulldrifter
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Beseech the Queen
1 Blatant Thievery
1 Bribery
1 Cruel Ultimatum
1 Damnation
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Dimir Machinations
1 Duress
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Ponder
1 Slave of Bolas
1 Thoughtseize
1 Time Spiral
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Yawgmoth's Will
Instant (23)
1 Boomerang
1 Brainstorm
1 Capsize
1 Counterspell
1 Crosis’ Charm
1 Cryptic Command
1 Desertion
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Double Negative
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Faerie Trickery
1 Forbid
1 Force of Will
1 Hinder
1 Lim-Dul's Vault
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Spelljack
1 Telling Time
1 Terminate
1 Terror
1 Trickbind
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Wipe Away
1 Clout of the Dominus
1 Confiscate
1 Control Magic
1 Future Sight
1 Necropotence
1 Treachery
Artifact (9)
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Dimir Signet
1 Feldon’s Cane
1 Izzet Signet
1 Journeyer's Kite
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
Planeswalker (3)
1 Liliana Vess
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
Vintage: Dredge | Legacy: Burn, Goblins, Soldier | Standard: Mono-Red Aggro
Commander: Nicol Bolas, Sliver Overlord, Rafiq
Casual: Selesnya Saproling Smackdown, Izzet Labs, Rebel
Played since June 2004, mostly inactive June 2011 to March 2018
Other usernames include AlanFromRochester, homerthebeerbaron
MTG checklists from Alpha to Ravnica Allegiance - https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/other-magic-products/third-party-products/805324-checklists-for-everything-from-alpha-to-ravnica
Don't use Feldon's - use Elixir instead. The lifegain is surprisingly relevant and it shuffles itself as well, as opposed to Feldon's exiling itself.
Necropolis is worth coming in tapped - we're a control deck, one land EBT in exchange for making all of our colours is very acceptable. The fetchlands provide more than "minuscule deck thinning" (which is an aspect not even worth considering at all). They're all so good with Divining Top, Crucible-Fetch ensures you never miss a land drop again, Brainstorm, and the ability to leave them uncracked and blank opposing Stone Rains (or hold off on them and crack in response to a Moon so that you can still have your colours [this and Chromatic Lantern are our primary defense versus Moon anyway]. Definitely get these as soon as you can afford them).
Yeah, having Swan Song or Spell Snare may seem like they limit, but in actuality, take a closer look at the spells that are being hurled towards you - you'll see these cards aren't as restrictive as they appear on paper (I'll gladly trade your Ranger's Path for a 2/2 flyer). Also, one of the banes of this style deck is t2 Sylvan Library when we're on the draw - these are some of the few cards that can stop that from happening. Annul almost made the cut, but I like Steel Sabotage too damn much haha.
C. Rift is a blast - especially in response to a Bolas damage trigger. Far/Away should replace Terror in your list, I think. It's fairly lacklustre as far as removal goes. Man, Far/Away is a really great value card. Crosis' Charm is really a hidden gem - Dark Banishing, Regress, or Shatter in one card. Funny story about that, I kept running into artifact-related problems (mainly swords), and I was up late one night checking out Charms for modal spells. I ran across this and like "Omg, I think I'm in love". Everything I could have ever asked for. i'm very happy to cast it for three mana. Speaking of silver bullets, why no Rakdos Charm? A Shatter or Tormod's Crypt are it's usual modes, but it can be nice versus token hoards like Elfball or Splinter Twin combos.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I knew Elixir shuffled in, but I thought a game wouldn't have lasted long enough to make that relevant. Yeah, I suppose the lifegain wouldn't hurt.
Yeah, this deck doesn't have other ways to deal with artifacts besides counter or bounce.
Ooh, I hadn't even thought about Cyclonic Rift then discard.
So I was wrong on the rationale for the fetches. Also, I knew they could do a bit of fixing by grabbing a dual or shock (say crack Verdant Catacombs for Watery Grave). But I still can't afford them, especially for a secondary use.
Okay, I'll consider the Crumbling Necropolis at least.
Vintage: Dredge | Legacy: Burn, Goblins, Soldier | Standard: Mono-Red Aggro
Commander: Nicol Bolas, Sliver Overlord, Rafiq
Casual: Selesnya Saproling Smackdown, Izzet Labs, Rebel
Played since June 2004, mostly inactive June 2011 to March 2018
Other usernames include AlanFromRochester, homerthebeerbaron
MTG checklists from Alpha to Ravnica Allegiance - https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/other-magic-products/third-party-products/805324-checklists-for-everything-from-alpha-to-ravnica
Lim-Dul's Vault is still a good card. I don't play it because it's a -1 CA (it's nice to stack the top five, but I want to put a card into my hand to replace it). And, sometimes if I stack the top five, I can't use a fetchland or else I'll lose the benefit of it.
This deck plays for the late game - I exhaust your resources/threats and then take over with inevitability. So Elixir helps me a good deal in accomplishing that.
Artifacts were a problem, yeah. They slip through counters (let a Sword/Jitte resolve because you think you can keep them off critters) but that sword of Fire and Ice was a beating against me. It's nice to have a couple of options to outright destroy them.
I understand the fetchlands are expensive. It took me the last three years to finally get them all online. But it's so worth it when you can.
I'm glad you were able to pick up a few ideas from my list. =)
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Yeah, Lim-Dul's Vault seems like one of the few decent cards in Alliances even though it doesn't fit this deck in particular.
I'll try Elixir eventually. I know it's dirt cheap, but I don't have one handy, and I don't have much else on my singles shopping list right now.
I don't want to simply netdeck you, but I think I have headed in the right direction, and maybe after further reflection, I'll take up more of your suggestions.
Vintage: Dredge | Legacy: Burn, Goblins, Soldier | Standard: Mono-Red Aggro
Commander: Nicol Bolas, Sliver Overlord, Rafiq
Casual: Selesnya Saproling Smackdown, Izzet Labs, Rebel
Played since June 2004, mostly inactive June 2011 to March 2018
Other usernames include AlanFromRochester, homerthebeerbaron
MTG checklists from Alpha to Ravnica Allegiance - https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/other-magic-products/third-party-products/805324-checklists-for-everything-from-alpha-to-ravnica
"Netdeck" me? I wouldn't call it that at all - you're playing good cards that help further your strategy. You asked for help and suggestions on your deck, and I replied with things that have worked for me. The "netdeck" concept is fairly misguided anyway - does it really matter if two players play similar decks? Why should one player get to play good cards while the other player can't because "someone else plays them"? Haha, play what's strong, what's good for your deck; and most importantly, play what wins.
I've spent about a year on honing that decklist to find what works. And if my hard work can help others? I'll take that as a compliment, man.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
You have indeed been very helpful.
What I meant by netdeck was to blindly copy without understanding; I have no problem with using good ideas knowing why they're good ideas. Incidentally, netdecking in that sense could lead to trouble actually piloting a deck.
We both noticed we already had a lot of the same cards and strategies - people often independently arrive at similar ideas. This is hardly limited to MTG; Newton and Leibniz both coming up with calculus comes to mind.
Vintage: Dredge | Legacy: Burn, Goblins, Soldier | Standard: Mono-Red Aggro
Commander: Nicol Bolas, Sliver Overlord, Rafiq
Casual: Selesnya Saproling Smackdown, Izzet Labs, Rebel
Played since June 2004, mostly inactive June 2011 to March 2018
Other usernames include AlanFromRochester, homerthebeerbaron
MTG checklists from Alpha to Ravnica Allegiance - https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/other-magic-products/third-party-products/805324-checklists-for-everything-from-alpha-to-ravnica
Ah, yes, the guy who watches a pro play something at a big GP then copies that list down five minutes before FNM. That's the a-typical "bad netdecker", and the guy who commonly wonders why he goes 2-2 at said FNM haha. I see - and glad to know that you aren't that guy.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
LOL.
Anyway, I haven't actually played this deck much against real opponents, mainly testing against my other decks by piloting them all myself, so I can't say too much about metagame decisions.
Vintage: Dredge | Legacy: Burn, Goblins, Soldier | Standard: Mono-Red Aggro
Commander: Nicol Bolas, Sliver Overlord, Rafiq
Casual: Selesnya Saproling Smackdown, Izzet Labs, Rebel
Played since June 2004, mostly inactive June 2011 to March 2018
Other usernames include AlanFromRochester, homerthebeerbaron
MTG checklists from Alpha to Ravnica Allegiance - https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/other-magic-products/third-party-products/805324-checklists-for-everything-from-alpha-to-ravnica
Ah. So you have the "theoretical experience" but lack in the "actual experience". It's hard to play as both decks objectively - human nature wants to favour one or the other. If I can get my desktop up and running (my laptop has weak specs) I should record some of my games on MODO with our friendly Elder Dragon for you.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I was intending to update MWS and test there. Such tests, whether by myself or on MWS, are a large part of how I like to play the game.
Vintage: Dredge | Legacy: Burn, Goblins, Soldier | Standard: Mono-Red Aggro
Commander: Nicol Bolas, Sliver Overlord, Rafiq
Casual: Selesnya Saproling Smackdown, Izzet Labs, Rebel
Played since June 2004, mostly inactive June 2011 to March 2018
Other usernames include AlanFromRochester, homerthebeerbaron
MTG checklists from Alpha to Ravnica Allegiance - https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/other-magic-products/third-party-products/805324-checklists-for-everything-from-alpha-to-ravnica
Crumbling Necropolis was my t1 play and was needed colorfixing. That and Scalding Tarn for Volcanic Island was how I paid the RR in Bolas' cost. Ancient Tomb was really useful too especially early.
I had plenty of disruption to keep him from getting off anything big like Traumatize. Mystical Tutor for Mind Twist was fun.
I got Lightning Greaves out early. I also waited until I could hardcast Mulldrifter. That chumped Daxos the 1st time and kept my opponent from attacking with, ironically, Augur of Bolas.
Time Spiral recycled my graveyard in addition to its usual fun stuff. I wasn't able to cast Bolas right afterwards, but I did get and play Sol Ring and Dimir Signet and some other fun stuff.
Prognostic Sphinx chumped Bolas once, but once Bolas was out, it was basically game.
Vintage: Dredge | Legacy: Burn, Goblins, Soldier | Standard: Mono-Red Aggro
Commander: Nicol Bolas, Sliver Overlord, Rafiq
Casual: Selesnya Saproling Smackdown, Izzet Labs, Rebel
Played since June 2004, mostly inactive June 2011 to March 2018
Other usernames include AlanFromRochester, homerthebeerbaron
MTG checklists from Alpha to Ravnica Allegiance - https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/other-magic-products/third-party-products/805324-checklists-for-everything-from-alpha-to-ravnica
Yup. Funny how when Bolas drops, it's just inevitable. That certain...feeling of dread taking over their facial features. They know what's coming, and that there isn't anything they can do to stop it from happening. It's my favourite aspect of this deck.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.