I love combo decks, and drawing tons of cards. I used to play Azami, Lady of Scrolls as my control/combo U deck. The main problem with Azami from my point of view is that you are forced to run enough wizards to ensure her activated ability pays off, and many of these wizards are situational and suboptimal. Also, casting wizards requires you to spend your mana on your own turn, even when you may not want to, prior to casting Azami so you can draw cards with her when she comes down later. This typically isn't really what the U player wants to be doing. Like Azami, Nin, the Pain Artist will draw you cards, but it will cost you mana (and potentially Nin herself) and tapping her. However, she does it all by herself...no crappy wizards required. As well, since her ability involves X, she has the potential to mill one of your opponents, providing a repeatable win-condition, if you can somehow generate infinite mana. And she's cheap to cast. Really cheap. As a side benefit, there are a few gems in the R card pool that you are able to run that you cannot with Azami. Lastly, in a pinch, she can be used as removal, but at the high cost of allowing your opponent to draw some cards, so you should only use this as a last resort, like if you're about to take lethal damage from Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon or something. I guess you could also use Nin's ability politically in multiplayer as part of an alliance before you stab your ally in the back, but whatever.
For me, the inspiration for building a Nin, the Pain Artist deck came from watching a few matches by magic guru Brian Weissman, and you can check out a few of his MTGO 1v1 matches here. In real life, I don't really play commander 1v1, so I've decided to try and modify his Nin deck to deal with multiple opponents, who will not just concede after one person gets hit with Amnesia. I have only been at this deck for a couple of weeks, but I already really enjoy piloting it, and am hoping for some additional suggestions from the community. For 1v1 play, I have listed what I would run at the end of this post. Although I haven't seen Brian's 1v1 list, I am fairly certain it is very close to the one I've listed.
Why Play Nin?:
Nin, the Pain Artist is a fantastic general. Her color identity is (U/R), which allows you access to the best draw spells, the best counter/bounce spells, and a few R gems, like Vandalblast. She has a low, low cost of only UR with an amazing ability. Her activated ability allows you to pay XUR,T to deal X damage to a creature, then have that creature's controller draw X cards. This is great since she will draw you cards on her own if you have extra creatures to spare, or she can nuke herself EOT for value, and is cheap enough to recast several times during a game. Because she has an activated ability, you are able to rarely tap out during your own turn and save your free mana for instant-speed countermagic, removal, or other draw spells.
You might love playing Nin if:
You like drawing cards
You really, really like drawing cards
You don't mind blowing up your own commander end-of-turn, turning unused mana into precious cards
You like having strategic options, along with a mitful of cards
You like playing control and combo
You like thinking carefully through lines of play during the game
You like strategies that do not rely on combat
You like strategies with multiple lines of attack
You are looking for a competitive multiplayer deck list
You shouldn't play Nin if:
You like to attack with big creatures
You like winning with general damage
You like linear strategies, with few strategic decisions to be made during the game
You don't like playing control, and/or your playgroup frowns on countermagic
Current Multiplayer Decklist (Updated October 10, 2014):
This deck wins by utterly overwhelming your opponents with card advantage, and eventually generating infinite mana and decking someone with Nin. Infinite mana is achieved with Rings of Brighthearth and Basalt Monolith. Both of these cards are good on their own, and together you go infinite with 2 extra mana. Alternatively, with infinite mana, you can use Blue Sun's Zenith to do the trick, but I no longer run this card, myself. A second, back-up win condition is use Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker with Pestermite to make infinite hasty tokens and kill the table, if generating infinite mana is not possible for some reason. Although Kiki-Jiki and Pestermite are quite useful individually, Murphy's law tells us that when we have one, and really need the other, it will be nowhere to be found. Therefore, this two-card combo has since be cut in favour for more efficient kill cards. Therefore, another possible win-condition is to go ultimate with Tezzeret the Seeker and our many artifacts, or to establish total board control and use Karn Liberated. Lastly, if all else fails, you can always go for the Winter Orb soft-lock with all of the artifact mana we run, along with countermagic, in order to get concessions. Ral Zarek is pretty great along with Winter Orb, since you can tap down someone's land while untapping one of yours under the Orb. Everybody else hates this though.
Cards To Think About:
Back to Basics -- These mana-denial effects are really powerful. However, if you are playing against other competitive decks, they will be aware that these cards exist, and can likely play around them, making their inclusion potentially dead cards, which is one of my pet peeves. They are awesome effects though, and I don't think they're bad to include, but I personally am not a fan at the moment. Blood Moon -- See Back to Basics comments. Amnesia -- Can spell game over for one of your opponents. An awesome card. Temporal Cascade -- Kind of like Amnesia for multiple opponents (where you don't pay the entwine cost), but you lose your hand too, which sucks. Pyroclasm -- An effective weeney board-wiper. Slagstorm -- Pretty versatile creature removal. Mizzium Mortars -- More pretty versatile creature removal. Rolling Earthquake -- Costs quite a bit to buy this one, but it's an effective board-wiper or finisher. Curse of the Swine -- There is a lot of value in this card too. Pongify -- Cheap, U creature removal. Rapid Hybridization -- More cheap, U creature removal. Snap -- Free creature bounce. Works really well when you can bounce your own Gilded Drake to steal the two best creatures on the board. Chaos Warp -- Tucking a permanent at instant speed is pretty great, but there is the possibility that something big gets flipped on the top in your opponent's favor. This is Commander, after all. A bit of a gamble, which is why I don't run it at the moment. Condescend -- A really good little early-game counter with scry built in. I should probably run it. Dismiss -- Counterspell and draw a card? Seems good, but paying 2UU is a little turn-offish. Flametongue Kavu -- Creature removal with legs. Venser, Shaper Savant -- He flashes in and bounces an annoying spell or permanent. He can block, he can draw cards without sacrificing Nin herself. He's good. Steam Augury -- A worse Fact or Fiction, in my opinion. Fact or Fiction is absolutely awesome, though, so this card is probably really good too. Starstorm -- Instant speed mass removal is pretty good. The RR can be problematic though. Jace, the Mind Sculptor -- We don't need to talk about why Jace is awesome. Everybody knows already. Karn Liberated -- Is also awesome, but a HUGE target for removal by our multiple opponents, and he'll only win the game for you after several turns. Exiling a permanent is pretty sweet though. Ral Zarek -- Has three relevant abilities, and the tap/untap ability has great synergy with the artifact mana, or even an extra land when coloured mana matters. His ultimate is achievable, and usually provides about three extra turns to cast Nin and use her ability, pretty much ensuring victory if you can pull it off. Dack Fayden -- I was sceptical of him at first, but after trying him out, he's quite good. His looting ability helps you dig, he only costs 3 mana, and stealing someone else's Sol Ring is great. Staff of Nin -- I feel that this card should be in the deck from a purely flavour perspective. I mean, Nin needs her staff, right? Also, the card in itself doesn't suck, although Nin already draws us plenty of cards. The ability to deal that one point of damage is sometimes nice too.
The difference between this list and the multiplayer list is only a few minor changes. Namely, Rings of Brighthearth comes out because it is situational and win-more (although still handy, copying Nin's ability). Capsize also comes out, because it is not needed. You could argue that Telepathy should come out for 1v1, but I just love that card, and I count it as a pseudo-"counterspell" because of the information it provides. Fire // Ice and Rapid Hybridization come in for 1v1.
So, I tried out my Nin decklist last night with my regular playgroup. We only had two games, but they were pretty long and drawn out. Even though we only played two games, I did get a bit of a feel for how to make some improvements based on the initial list, as outlined in the changelog in the OP. In case anyone is curious, the decks I was playing against were: Edric, Spymaster of Trest (weenie and extra turns with loads of counters, similar to Donald's list), Derevi, Empyrial Tactician control, and Oloro, Ageless Ascetic (fairly stock precon list, with a few notable additions, like Storm Herd). All in all, I was facing down some pretty good decks.
Edric won the first game by taking all the turns the turn before I could Mystical Tutor EOT, untap and set up my win with Cyclonic Rift. In that game, I had a really slow start because I had an opening hand of four land, Counterspell, Fact or Fiction, and Bribery. This is a pretty slow opener since there are no mana rocks, but I was holding a counter for Edric, and had Fact or Fiction to refill my hand later, so I don't think it was wrong keeping it. Then I proceeded to draw land for four straight turns. I countered Edric, but was right away cursed with Curse of Shallow Graves by Oloro, and everyone took the opportunity to attack me exclusively, getting Zombies while I drew land. I got out Nin when the coast was clear, and Fact or Fiction came through, but by that time Edric had his army, and Notorious Thronged his way to end the game (along with Recollect, Reclaim, and countermagic).
I won the second game in a long drawn out intellectual battle, although the Oloro player had to leave early. It was a long game, because I tapped out to play some rocks and Bribery, pulling Hokori, Dust Drinker out of Derevi's deck, with my opponents tapped out. Then before my turn again, the Derevi guy used his one land and Sol Ring to hit Nin with Darksteel Mutation, before I could untap and draw a bunch of cards off of Nin with my mana to refill my hand. With Nin offline, this put us all in topdeck mode, and I drew nothing but counters and land for about five or six turns. But, with my abundance of counters and bounce (Capsize with buyback was great when I eventually drew it), I managed to keep the Edric guy off his game and my biggest problem was constantly dealing with Derevi's flying and untapping stuff, not to mention that his ability makes him effectively uncounterable. I was able to kill the Derevi guy with an ultimate Tezzeret the Seeker activation and my mana rocks, and eventually comboed out with Rings of Brighthearth and Basalt Monolith for the win.
Of note, both of my games last night were Archenemy style, with everyone against me, because I have a bit of a reputation in my playgroup, and they hadn't seen me play Nin before. I actually welcomed it since I wanted to expose some of the weaknesses of the decklist in a multiplayer setting. As well, in hindsight I made several play errors, so clearly I need more practice piloting this deck. Nevertheless, I have three initial feelings:
1) I don't need 35 land. There are sooooo many mana rocks, in addition to Copy Artifact, Sculpting Steel, and Phyrexian Metamorph, and getting mana wasn't a problem in the games so far. Brian Weissman runs maybe 31 lands when he plays his Nin list 1v1, but I really think this is too low. It is most likely that I am a crappy mulliganer though. I think 32 land should be about right.
2) In multiplayer games, Nin is relying on card advantage and theft to bide her time to assemble a combo, so direct aggression with weenies can be a problem. Since I am usually a target, I need a few more board-wipe effects. One Cyclonic Rift (along with Merchant Scroll, Mystical Tutor, and Muddle the Mixture to get it), and one Starstorm is not enough. Especially without any recursion.
3) I need a recursion effect. In multiplayer, people can and will recover from Cyclonic Rift, or potentially deal with a Rings of Brighthearth, sending it to the graveyard. I think it's worth it to have at least one recursion effect, and right now I'm leaning towards Elixir of Immortality, because it is an artifact I have many ways to fetch if needed. I've though about Past in Flames, but I'd really like to recover my artifacts too. In 1v1, you don't need this recursion (other than Snapcaster Mage, which is awesome), but in multiplayer, with countermagic being a bit weaker than in 1v1, I think the otherwise bad Elixir is worth the spot.
I had time to run through a few sample hands and first few draws with the current list last night (no full blown games, just goldfishing really). Mainly, I wanted to see if having 32 lands was too light and forcing me to mulligan too often. After a dozen or so sample hands, I think the lower land count is fine with all of the mana acceleration. Also, the deck can be quite explosive, and should be mulliganed aggressively into mana acceleration and a couple land, or a hand with some good defense (counters or board wipe) and a couple land. Nin is so cheap to cast that as long as you're not color-screwed, getting fast and reliable mana wasn't a problem, since Nin will draw the cards when you need her to.
Anyone with more experience piloting Nin is welcome to chime in with their thoughts.
I run a more theft themed/draw pain deck. It has infinite mana as a back up.
The theft effects are great, and would suggest running a few. Another oddly fun card is walking atlas. Ramp early game and a body for nin later. My list is in my sig if you wanna take a look.
Yeah, I'm currently running only 4 theft effects: Vedalken Shackles, Gilded Drake, Treachery, and Bribery. I see in your list you are running 5 theft effects that are creatures, Insurrection, Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded, and Reins of Power, so you definitely run more theft than I am currently running. Your list looks like fun. Is there a reason you're not running Shackles, Drake, Treachery, or Bribery? These are pretty awesome theft cards, the best, in my opinion. I run the Winter Orb soft-lock, which is another reason I love cards like Treachery that let me untap my lands and win the mana-war along with the many mana rocks I'm running. I even run Rewind at the moment.
Thank you, it's a blast to play. Basically it's due to budget, and nin being my secondary deck. Rewind is great I pulled a foil run awhile back and love using it.
I've been thinking a bit more about the alternate win-con that is Blue Sun's Zenith (along with infinite mana), and at this point I feel that it is unnecessary. It's an okay EOT draw spell instant, but I think I'd rather have Venser, Shaper Savant, since he's kind of like an extra counterspell, bounce spell, and creature to hit with Nin all rolled into one card. So, for now:
Also, in case anyone would like to play this deck in a duel environment, I have added a 1v1 version of Nin to the OP, which forgoes the infinite mana kill, and includes Karn Liberated, Tezzeret the Seeker and Amnesia as finishers.
Staff of Domination is indeed a good, versatile card. But, I really don't think we need another win-condition, which is why I cut Blue Sun's Zenith a couple of days ago. I just haven't found it necessary in my testing so far, with three ways to kill the rest of the table already, once control has been established. The three ways I'm referring to are: infinite mana and decking with Nin, Tezzeret's ultimate ability with the slew of artifacts, and Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker/Pestermite for oops, I win.
Thank you for your feedback though, and I do appreciate the constructive suggestions.
It just seems like you are way short on wincons. Intuition and Gamble are as good as any other tutor. Staff of Domination would only get played if you also played Power Artifact.
It just seems like you are way short on wincons. Intuition and Gamble are as good as any other tutor. Staff of Domination would only get played if you also played Power Artifact.
As to the number of wincons being too few, I respectfully disagree. 3 diverse ways (not counting random creature beats, of course, or something silly like general damage) is just fine, in my opinion, especially when you are playing U to bounce and/or counter problem spells and permanents. This deck draws lots of cards, and is meant to be a control deck primarily as opposed to a dedicated combo deck (like Oona). Power Artifact is a dead card by itself, and as I mentioned previously, Basalt Monolith and Rings of Brighthearth are not.
The 1v1 version that Brian Weissman put together is really fun to watch in action, and I have a link in the OP if you'd like to check out a few games to see what makes the deck tick. A particularly awesome multiplayer game that he played can be found here. I have never seen his list, but I have watched enough of his games to know that the 1v1 list I have in the OP is probably less than 10 or so cards different from his.
In multiplayer, it is true that counter spells become weaker and we need more ways to win, card advantage is king, and we need some kind of recursion. At this point, I feel like Staff of Dominion would only be good if we already have infinite mana, in which case we have already won with Nin, making the staff win-more. The tutors you're suggesting are okay, but I don't really abuse the graveyard, making Intuition not as good. Gamble is okay, but honestly, tutors like Merchant Scroll, Mystical Tutor, and even Muddle the Mixture are much better options in this type of deck.
Had another minor change today, taking out Arcane Denial and replacing it with Sower of Temptation (who is also a wizard, going nicely with my other recent addition, Riptide Laboratory). Sower is such a good card once the game gets going (and permanent theft is awesome with Nin), and I've never really liked giving someone cards off of Arcane Denial. I tried out this change last night, and Sower actually played a part in a couple of wins...stealing Derevi and using her and the Sower to untap my mana rocks was pure sweetness.
Yesterday, I signed up for MTGO and made a budget Nin list to test out, and I have added this list to the OP if anyone wants to build this deck for 100 tix online. It's kind of sad that even a budget list costs $100, but that's life I guess.
Are you basing this deck off of the cards you see in his videos or do you have a decklist of his somewhere. The reason I ask is I have been looking for his decklists for some time.
I have never had a conversation with Brian Weissman, and I have never seen his personal Nin deck list. But, I've watched enough of his games to know pretty much what's in his list, and the 1v1 list in the OP I've entered is very close to what he is running, and I am not taking any credit for it. The point of my take on Nin is to try and put together a list tailored for multiplayer games, with more board-wipes, an auto-win Kiki-Jiki/Pestermite combo, and an infinite mana combo to deck multiple opponents using Nin's ability. Even though Nin has to tap, her ability can be copied with Rings of Brighthearth allowing you to deck two opponents per turn. It's working pretty well so far. But no, I have not seen his deck list.
That's fine I ask cause I watched as many of his Nin games as I could and from what I can deduce its mainly a blue control deck with a few key red cards sweepers like rolling earthquake. I don't have Rolling Earthquake but I am running Sudden Demise. Sadly I think for mulitplayer Niv-Mizzet would probably play the same deck as you have but just throw a couple of this combo cards as they only take about 3 slots and it would boost the power of the deck tremendously.
What are your thoughts on other MTG EDH Streamers?
Yes, it is totally a U control deck, which means that a lot of EDHers will be annoyed at you when you start countering all their spells and locking them with cards like Winter Orb. I much prefer Nin to Niv-Mizzet myself because she is so much cheaper to cast, and even when she eats removal, she's easy to recast. But honestly though, I very often hold off on re-casting her if she's drawing hate and just let the control deck do the rest, playing conservatively and reactively. I realize there are efficient combo cards with Niv-Mizzet, like Curiosity and such, but Nin is so cheap to cast, if it's mid to late in the game, you can cast her and still hold up the mana for counters or whatever, which is exactly what the U control player wants to do, of course.
My experience with MTGO and online opponents so far is generally positive. I am only running the "multiplayer budget decklist" given in the OP on MTGO, since that's all I can afford at the moment. After maybe ten or so test games learning the beta interface and some of the nuances, I started keeping track of my online games, because I'm an empirical kind if guy. After the test games, I have played 21 games so far, with a record of 18 wins, 3 losses. Also, when I request a match, I have included a request for competitive decks, out of respect for my opponent's time and enjoyment. That's just my spirit of EDH. Most of the games go long (partly because I'm not an amazing pilot, and make tons of mistakes), and end in concessions. Also, I've been playing these games 1v1, mostly to see if the multiplayer list I have can do fine 1v1, and because the games are quicker. One beef I have with MTGO is that when I assemble the Rings of Brighthearth/Basalt Monolith infinite mana combo, there is soooooo much clicking back and forth to get enough mana to deck someone with Nin that it's super annoying for both my opponent and myself, when it's 10 minutes of clicking to actually kill them. I have only played one multiplayer game online so far against Riku and Sygg, which was pretty fun. I lucked out and had both Rings and Basalt Monolith in my hand with Nin in play by turn 6 with both of my opponents (who were really friendly guys) tapped out. Barring a Force of Will, I had the game there, but was having fun so just played the Monolith and said go. A bunch of crazy things happened over the next 15 turns or so, including a couple of board wipes by me, and it was pretty fun. Then the game crashed off of my suspend trigger from Ancestral Vision and we called it a night. Anyway, even the budget list was performing very well.
There were two other games I can recall worth mentioning here: the first loss I had was against the new Mindrazer zombie guy where I mulliganed into a hand with two U lands, no acceleration, Shackles, a Gilded Drake, and some other stuff. Anyway, he made all of his land drops, and I didn't draw a land for four turns and ended up with an uncastable Nin and expensive mana rocks off of my draws. He was running counters too, and I got too far behind and lost. One thing I've been learning is to mulligan aggressively. Another game of note had me mulligan down to 3 cards: Island, Island, Izzet Signet. I proceeded to draw Memory Lapse, Coalition Relic, Chain Reaction, land, and Gilded Lotus over the next five turns. I let him play out three weenie utility (i.e. annoying) creatures over the first few turns, then wiped the board, Memory Lapsed his next play, and played the Lotus and drew Trinket Mage into Sol Ring and got so far ahead of him, leading to victory. It was awesome to comeback like that, after having to mulligan to three. I still need to work out recording a few games, because the beta version of MTGO has disabled replays, for the time being.
After some more testing with 1v1 and 2-headed giant games, I really feel like it's time to cut Elixir of Immortality. I know that in commander recursion is important, but as I become a bit better at piloting Nin, I feel like this card is a total crutch. For every one time it's useful, there are probably 30 times where it's a completely dead card. I'd so rather have Into the Roil, which is versatile, almost never dead, and can cantrip if needed. I've updated the OP with the changes.
I really like the card Impulse for digging at instant speed. I've also come to appreciate Steam Augury as a second, worse Fact or Fiction. Fact or Fiction as an instant is just sooooo good at what it does, having a second pseudo-copy is worth it. The question then becomes what to cut. I was thinking that one of the board-wipers could probably go, and that as good as Kiki-Jiki/Pestermite is to insta-kill the table, it's still a two-card combo when you need it, and can be cumbersome to assemble. So, at the moment, my plan is to make the following changes:
I'm thinking that, like Tezzeret the Seeker, Karn Liberated can be a one-card win condition, as long as you play smart enough to deploy him at the right time and protect him. We'll see how these changes stand up.
Yup, that was me :). It was a pretty incredible game, actually...and those types of wins are just the best. After playing probably a few hundred games, I can say that this deck is the real deal, and very intellectually stimulating to play. I still feel like I do not pilot it optimally most of the time, but even still it's win percentage 1v1 is very high, likely around 90%.
Anyway, I have made some updates to the opening post with some very minor changes to the deck. My local playgroup hasn't been meeting very often due to life getting in the way (;)) and so I've been playing mostly on MTGO, and, over this time, have acquired all of the cards I need to run the given list. Also, I've pretty much been playing 1v1 exclusively, since it's quick to get a game in, and fun. At this point, the list is very similar to the list Brian Weissman put together, so he deserves the credit for the list. I would guess that my list is only about 7-10 cards different from his, and you can all watch several of his matches on youtube which are very enjoyable. Someone asked me the other day what the differences were, and, off the top of my head, they were as follows:
Well, Erayo, Soratami Ascendant is now banned in commander (a very sad day indeed), and Dig Through Time now exists, so this is the easiest deck list update ever. Dig Through Time provides a fantastic, instant speed, mid/later game cheap draw spell for this deck, considering that Nin doesn't utilize the graveyard, meaning that Dig will almost always cost UU and provide card advantage. I think that Treasure Cruise also deserves consideration, but am at a loss, at the moment, for what to cut to make room for it, as the deck list is pretty tight as is.
Hi Dr. Zoidberg!
I want to start off by saying that I have played you a few times on MTGO as well as Brian himself and I joined MTGSalvation just to respond to this post when I found it today! Ha!
I have my own Nin deck online as well as IRL and I have to say she is largely overlooked as a competitive commander, but she is an outstanding general.
I first built her as a 1v1 general and I loved her so much I wanted to make her into a multiplayer deck and play her at my local meta. I used Brian's list as starting point for my multiplayer list and I must admit, I did change quite a few things about her from his list.
One thing that puzzles me is her win-cons. What Brian considers a win-con in 1v1 cannot be considered a win-con in multiplayer. I would never depend on 2 of my three win-cons being planeswalker ultimates. As Tezzeret and Karn are bombs in Nin, they are not dependable win-cons due to the amount of resources you have to invest to protect them as well as how hard they are to protect for 3-4 turns. I would consider Reiterate and Turnabout as a second infinite mana combo that is also tutorable in your list. They are outstanding cards on their own and one of the best combos in multiplayer for izzet in my opinion.
I agree with you about Brian's land count it does need to be higher.
A few cards I think are great in Nin for multiplayer: Darksteel Plate - Difficult to remove, makes Nin and/or Nin's sniping target repeatable card draw as well as a survivor after any of our red board wipes. Chamber of Manipulation - Has a few notable weaknesses but kind of like a second REALLY BAD Vedalken Shackles. Makes the land it enchants a huge target but with the number of mana rocks we run we shouldn't care about our lands as much. Isochron Scepter - I have seen somewhere where either you or Brian argued this card down and explained why you wouldn't play it, but I play NO creatures so it is better in my build. I would consider playing it maybe, I have had good success with it.
A few cards I would consider removing: Ancestral Visions - Although great on an Isochron Scepter, 4 turns is a high price to pay late game in order to draw cards. I would rather this be Concentrate honestly. She is a very reactive general and I would consider Mystic Remora or Rystic Study over it. They can easily draw you more than 3 cards over their lifetime and can slow your opponents down. Remand - I find counterspells to be far less powerfull than most people would agree in multiplayer but Remand is probably one of the worst ones. I admit some spells just cannot resolve especially when your opponent plays combo, but I would rather this be Arcane Denial or any other hard counter.
I have a few other opinions as well but to keep my first post as focused as possible I'll just mention my most pressing one: Proteus Staff
I do not know of any creatures in UR that I want to play in Nin over my Proteus Staff. I use it simply as a sorcery speed topdeck tutor in my no creatures list. I can also throw Nin onto the battlefield without much fear of getting her tucked, allowing me to save my protection resources for more pressing matters.
Since I am pressed for time, I must cut it off here. I can post my own list soon if you would like.
For me, the inspiration for building a Nin, the Pain Artist deck came from watching a few matches by magic guru Brian Weissman, and you can check out a few of his MTGO 1v1 matches here. In real life, I don't really play commander 1v1, so I've decided to try and modify his Nin deck to deal with multiple opponents, who will not just concede after one person gets hit with Amnesia. I have only been at this deck for a couple of weeks, but I already really enjoy piloting it, and am hoping for some additional suggestions from the community. For 1v1 play, I have listed what I would run at the end of this post. Although I haven't seen Brian's 1v1 list, I am fairly certain it is very close to the one I've listed.
Nin, the Pain Artist is a fantastic general. Her color identity is (U/R), which allows you access to the best draw spells, the best counter/bounce spells, and a few R gems, like Vandalblast. She has a low, low cost of only UR with an amazing ability. Her activated ability allows you to pay XUR,T to deal X damage to a creature, then have that creature's controller draw X cards. This is great since she will draw you cards on her own if you have extra creatures to spare, or she can nuke herself EOT for value, and is cheap enough to recast several times during a game. Because she has an activated ability, you are able to rarely tap out during your own turn and save your free mana for instant-speed countermagic, removal, or other draw spells.
You might love playing Nin if:
- You like drawing cards
- You really, really like drawing cards
- You don't mind blowing up your own commander end-of-turn, turning unused mana into precious cards
- You like having strategic options, along with a mitful of cards
- You like playing control and combo
- You like thinking carefully through lines of play during the game
- You like strategies that do not rely on combat
- You like strategies with multiple lines of attack
- You are looking for a competitive multiplayer deck list
You shouldn't play Nin if:1 Nin, the Pain Artist
Land (31):
1 Arid Mesa
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Command Tower
1 Great Furnace
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Mishra's Workshop
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand
1 Forbidden Orchard
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Shivan Reef
7 Snow-Covered Island
2 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Steam Vents
1 Strip Mine
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Volcanic Island
1 Wasteland
Artifacts (19):
1 Basalt Monolith
1 Coalition Relic
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Expedition Map
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Grim Monolith
1 Izzet Signet
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mind Stone
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Sculpting Steel
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Vedalken Shackles
1 Winter Orb
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Dack Fayden
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Karn Liberated
1 Ral Zarek
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
Creatures (8):
1 Gilded Drake
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Trinket Mage
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
Enchantments (4):
1 Copy Artifact
1 Future Sight
1 Telepathy
1 Treachery
Sorceries (8):
1 Ancestral Vision
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Bribery
1 Fabricate
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Ponder
1 Tidings
1 Vandalblast
Instants (24):
1 Brainstorm
1 Capsize
1 Counterflux
1 Counterspell
1 Cryptic Command
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Dig Through Time
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Forbid
1 Force of Will
1 Hinder
1 Impulse
1 Into the Roil
1 Mana Drain
1 Memory Lapse
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Negate
1 Pact of Negation
1 Pongify
1 Remand
1 Rewind
1 Spell Crumple
1 Thirst for Knowledge
This deck wins by utterly overwhelming your opponents with card advantage, and eventually generating infinite mana and decking someone with Nin. Infinite mana is achieved with Rings of Brighthearth and Basalt Monolith. Both of these cards are good on their own, and together you go infinite with 2 extra mana. Alternatively, with infinite mana, you can use Blue Sun's Zenith to do the trick, but I no longer run this card, myself. A second, back-up win condition is use Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker with Pestermite to make infinite hasty tokens and kill the table, if generating infinite mana is not possible for some reason. Although Kiki-Jiki and Pestermite are quite useful individually, Murphy's law tells us that when we have one, and really need the other, it will be nowhere to be found. Therefore, this two-card combo has since be cut in favour for more efficient kill cards. Therefore, another possible win-condition is to go ultimate with Tezzeret the Seeker and our many artifacts, or to establish total board control and use Karn Liberated. Lastly, if all else fails, you can always go for the Winter Orb soft-lock with all of the artifact mana we run, along with countermagic, in order to get concessions. Ral Zarek is pretty great along with Winter Orb, since you can tap down someone's land while untapping one of yours under the Orb. Everybody else hates this though.
Back to Basics -- These mana-denial effects are really powerful. However, if you are playing against other competitive decks, they will be aware that these cards exist, and can likely play around them, making their inclusion potentially dead cards, which is one of my pet peeves. They are awesome effects though, and I don't think they're bad to include, but I personally am not a fan at the moment.
Blood Moon -- See Back to Basics comments.
Amnesia -- Can spell game over for one of your opponents. An awesome card.
Temporal Cascade -- Kind of like Amnesia for multiple opponents (where you don't pay the entwine cost), but you lose your hand too, which sucks.
Pyroclasm -- An effective weeney board-wiper.
Slagstorm -- Pretty versatile creature removal.
Mizzium Mortars -- More pretty versatile creature removal.
Rolling Earthquake -- Costs quite a bit to buy this one, but it's an effective board-wiper or finisher.
Curse of the Swine -- There is a lot of value in this card too.
Pongify -- Cheap, U creature removal.
Rapid Hybridization -- More cheap, U creature removal.
Snap -- Free creature bounce. Works really well when you can bounce your own Gilded Drake to steal the two best creatures on the board.
Chaos Warp -- Tucking a permanent at instant speed is pretty great, but there is the possibility that something big gets flipped on the top in your opponent's favor. This is Commander, after all. A bit of a gamble, which is why I don't run it at the moment.
Condescend -- A really good little early-game counter with scry built in. I should probably run it.
Dismiss -- Counterspell and draw a card? Seems good, but paying 2UU is a little turn-offish.
Flametongue Kavu -- Creature removal with legs.
Venser, Shaper Savant -- He flashes in and bounces an annoying spell or permanent. He can block, he can draw cards without sacrificing Nin herself. He's good.
Steam Augury -- A worse Fact or Fiction, in my opinion. Fact or Fiction is absolutely awesome, though, so this card is probably really good too.
Starstorm -- Instant speed mass removal is pretty good. The RR can be problematic though.
Jace, the Mind Sculptor -- We don't need to talk about why Jace is awesome. Everybody knows already.
Karn Liberated -- Is also awesome, but a HUGE target for removal by our multiple opponents, and he'll only win the game for you after several turns. Exiling a permanent is pretty sweet though.
Ral Zarek -- Has three relevant abilities, and the tap/untap ability has great synergy with the artifact mana, or even an extra land when coloured mana matters. His ultimate is achievable, and usually provides about three extra turns to cast Nin and use her ability, pretty much ensuring victory if you can pull it off.
Dack Fayden -- I was sceptical of him at first, but after trying him out, he's quite good. His looting ability helps you dig, he only costs 3 mana, and stealing someone else's Sol Ring is great.
Staff of Nin -- I feel that this card should be in the deck from a purely flavour perspective. I mean, Nin needs her staff, right? Also, the card in itself doesn't suck, although Nin already draws us plenty of cards. The ability to deal that one point of damage is sometimes nice too.
2014/02/14
OUT:
Snow-Covered Island
Snow-Covered Mountain
Fire // Ice
Izzet Charm
IN:
Blasphemous Act
All is Dust
Chain Reaction
Elixir of Immortality
2014/02/27
OUT:
Blue Sun's Zenith
IN:
Venser, Shaper Savant
2014/03/08
OUT:
Izzet Boilerworks
IN:
Riptide Laboratory
2014/03/09
OUT:
Arcane Denial
IN:
Sower of Temptation
2014/03/16
OUT:
Elixir of Immortality
IN:
Into the Roil
2014/04/02
OUT:
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Pestermite
Chain Reaction
IN:
Impulse
Steam Augury
Karn Liberated
2014/08/26
OUT:
Snow-Covered Island
All is Dust
Steam Augury
IN:
Dack Fayden
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Ral Zarek
2014/08/27
OUT:
Starstorm
IN:
Pongify
2014/10/10
OUT:
Erayo, Soratami Ascendant
IN:
1 Dig Through Time
The difference between this list and the multiplayer list is only a few minor changes. Namely, Rings of Brighthearth comes out because it is situational and win-more (although still handy, copying Nin's ability). Capsize also comes out, because it is not needed. You could argue that Telepathy should come out for 1v1, but I just love that card, and I count it as a pseudo-"counterspell" because of the information it provides. Fire // Ice and Rapid Hybridization come in for 1v1.
1 Nin, the Pain Artist
Land (31):
1 Arid Mesa
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Command Tower
1 Great Furnace
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Mishra's Workshop
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand
1 Forbidden Orchard
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Shivan Reef
7 Snow-Covered Island
2 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Steam Vents
1 Strip Mine
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Volcanic Island
1 Wasteland
Artifacts (18):
1 Basalt Monolith
1 Coalition Relic
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Expedition Map
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Grim Monolith
1 Izzet Signet
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mind Stone
1 Sculpting Steel
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Vedalken Shackles
1 Winter Orb
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Dack Fayden
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Karn Liberated
1 Ral Zarek
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
Creatures (8):
1 Gilded Drake
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Trinket Mage
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
Enchantments (4):
1 Copy Artifact
1 Future Sight
1 Telepathy
1 Treachery
Sorceries (8):
1 Ancestral Vision
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Bribery
1 Fabricate
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Ponder
1 Tidings
1 Vandalblast
Instants (25):
1 Brainstorm
1 Counterflux
1 Counterspell
1 Cryptic Command
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Dig Through Time
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Fire // Ice
1 Forbid
1 Force of Will
1 Hinder
1 Impulse
1 Into the Roil
1 Mana Drain
1 Memory Lapse
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Negate
1 Pact of Negation
1 Pongify
1 Rapid Hybridization[/CARD
1 Remand
1 Rewind
1 Spell Crumple
1 Thirst for Knowledge
This "love" intrigues me. Teach me to fake it.
UR Nin, the Pain Artist
WUB Zur the Enchanter (Retired)
UB Oona, Queen of the Fae (Pseudo-Retired)
Edric won the first game by taking all the turns the turn before I could Mystical Tutor EOT, untap and set up my win with Cyclonic Rift. In that game, I had a really slow start because I had an opening hand of four land, Counterspell, Fact or Fiction, and Bribery. This is a pretty slow opener since there are no mana rocks, but I was holding a counter for Edric, and had Fact or Fiction to refill my hand later, so I don't think it was wrong keeping it. Then I proceeded to draw land for four straight turns. I countered Edric, but was right away cursed with Curse of Shallow Graves by Oloro, and everyone took the opportunity to attack me exclusively, getting Zombies while I drew land. I got out Nin when the coast was clear, and Fact or Fiction came through, but by that time Edric had his army, and Notorious Thronged his way to end the game (along with Recollect, Reclaim, and countermagic).
I won the second game in a long drawn out intellectual battle, although the Oloro player had to leave early. It was a long game, because I tapped out to play some rocks and Bribery, pulling Hokori, Dust Drinker out of Derevi's deck, with my opponents tapped out. Then before my turn again, the Derevi guy used his one land and Sol Ring to hit Nin with Darksteel Mutation, before I could untap and draw a bunch of cards off of Nin with my mana to refill my hand. With Nin offline, this put us all in topdeck mode, and I drew nothing but counters and land for about five or six turns. But, with my abundance of counters and bounce (Capsize with buyback was great when I eventually drew it), I managed to keep the Edric guy off his game and my biggest problem was constantly dealing with Derevi's flying and untapping stuff, not to mention that his ability makes him effectively uncounterable. I was able to kill the Derevi guy with an ultimate Tezzeret the Seeker activation and my mana rocks, and eventually comboed out with Rings of Brighthearth and Basalt Monolith for the win.
Of note, both of my games last night were Archenemy style, with everyone against me, because I have a bit of a reputation in my playgroup, and they hadn't seen me play Nin before. I actually welcomed it since I wanted to expose some of the weaknesses of the decklist in a multiplayer setting. As well, in hindsight I made several play errors, so clearly I need more practice piloting this deck. Nevertheless, I have three initial feelings:
1) I don't need 35 land. There are sooooo many mana rocks, in addition to Copy Artifact, Sculpting Steel, and Phyrexian Metamorph, and getting mana wasn't a problem in the games so far. Brian Weissman runs maybe 31 lands when he plays his Nin list 1v1, but I really think this is too low. It is most likely that I am a crappy mulliganer though. I think 32 land should be about right.
2) In multiplayer games, Nin is relying on card advantage and theft to bide her time to assemble a combo, so direct aggression with weenies can be a problem. Since I am usually a target, I need a few more board-wipe effects. One Cyclonic Rift (along with Merchant Scroll, Mystical Tutor, and Muddle the Mixture to get it), and one Starstorm is not enough. Especially without any recursion.
3) I need a recursion effect. In multiplayer, people can and will recover from Cyclonic Rift, or potentially deal with a Rings of Brighthearth, sending it to the graveyard. I think it's worth it to have at least one recursion effect, and right now I'm leaning towards Elixir of Immortality, because it is an artifact I have many ways to fetch if needed. I've though about Past in Flames, but I'd really like to recover my artifacts too. In 1v1, you don't need this recursion (other than Snapcaster Mage, which is awesome), but in multiplayer, with countermagic being a bit weaker than in 1v1, I think the otherwise bad Elixir is worth the spot.
Therefore
OUT:
IN:
Any constructive opinions from the community on these changes or the decklist in general are welcome.
This "love" intrigues me. Teach me to fake it.
UR Nin, the Pain Artist
WUB Zur the Enchanter (Retired)
UB Oona, Queen of the Fae (Pseudo-Retired)
Anyone with more experience piloting Nin is welcome to chime in with their thoughts.
This "love" intrigues me. Teach me to fake it.
UR Nin, the Pain Artist
WUB Zur the Enchanter (Retired)
UB Oona, Queen of the Fae (Pseudo-Retired)
The theft effects are great, and would suggest running a few. Another oddly fun card is walking atlas. Ramp early game and a body for nin later. My list is in my sig if you wanna take a look.
Nin's theft
Mill all decks
bruna blink
This "love" intrigues me. Teach me to fake it.
UR Nin, the Pain Artist
WUB Zur the Enchanter (Retired)
UB Oona, Queen of the Fae (Pseudo-Retired)
Nin's theft
Mill all decks
bruna blink
OUT:
Blue Sun's Zenith
IN:
Venser, Shaper Savant
Also, in case anyone would like to play this deck in a duel environment, I have added a 1v1 version of Nin to the OP, which forgoes the infinite mana kill, and includes Karn Liberated, Tezzeret the Seeker and Amnesia as finishers.
This "love" intrigues me. Teach me to fake it.
UR Nin, the Pain Artist
WUB Zur the Enchanter (Retired)
UB Oona, Queen of the Fae (Pseudo-Retired)
Staff of Domination is a great win condition.
My Blog About It
I'm familiar with Power Artifact, since it is a major combo piece with Basalt Monolith and Grim Monolith that I use in my Oona, Queen of the Fae competitive commander deck. I don't really like it with my version of Nin though, because (unlike with Oona) I'm not playing Nin as a dedicated combo deck, with a zillion tutors like you have when playing B. In this list, Power Artifact, by itself, is a dead card without Basalt Monolith. However, both Basalt Monolith and Rings of Brighthearth are useful on their own, and together they go infinite, which is why they fit better in Nin. Basalt Monolith is another mana rock (that I'm running anyway), and Rings can do fun things with Tezzeret the Seeker, Vedalken Shackles, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Sensei's Divining Top, or even Nin, the Pain Artist herself, so Rings is rarely ever dead (although you still have to be careful when you play it).
Staff of Domination is indeed a good, versatile card. But, I really don't think we need another win-condition, which is why I cut Blue Sun's Zenith a couple of days ago. I just haven't found it necessary in my testing so far, with three ways to kill the rest of the table already, once control has been established. The three ways I'm referring to are: infinite mana and decking with Nin, Tezzeret's ultimate ability with the slew of artifacts, and Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker/Pestermite for oops, I win.
Thank you for your feedback though, and I do appreciate the constructive suggestions.
This "love" intrigues me. Teach me to fake it.
UR Nin, the Pain Artist
WUB Zur the Enchanter (Retired)
UB Oona, Queen of the Fae (Pseudo-Retired)
My Blog About It
As to the number of wincons being too few, I respectfully disagree. 3 diverse ways (not counting random creature beats, of course, or something silly like general damage) is just fine, in my opinion, especially when you are playing U to bounce and/or counter problem spells and permanents. This deck draws lots of cards, and is meant to be a control deck primarily as opposed to a dedicated combo deck (like Oona). Power Artifact is a dead card by itself, and as I mentioned previously, Basalt Monolith and Rings of Brighthearth are not.
The 1v1 version that Brian Weissman put together is really fun to watch in action, and I have a link in the OP if you'd like to check out a few games to see what makes the deck tick. A particularly awesome multiplayer game that he played can be found here. I have never seen his list, but I have watched enough of his games to know that the 1v1 list I have in the OP is probably less than 10 or so cards different from his.
In multiplayer, it is true that counter spells become weaker and we need more ways to win, card advantage is king, and we need some kind of recursion. At this point, I feel like Staff of Dominion would only be good if we already have infinite mana, in which case we have already won with Nin, making the staff win-more. The tutors you're suggesting are okay, but I don't really abuse the graveyard, making Intuition not as good. Gamble is okay, but honestly, tutors like Merchant Scroll, Mystical Tutor, and even Muddle the Mixture are much better options in this type of deck.
This "love" intrigues me. Teach me to fake it.
UR Nin, the Pain Artist
WUB Zur the Enchanter (Retired)
UB Oona, Queen of the Fae (Pseudo-Retired)
This "love" intrigues me. Teach me to fake it.
UR Nin, the Pain Artist
WUB Zur the Enchanter (Retired)
UB Oona, Queen of the Fae (Pseudo-Retired)
This "love" intrigues me. Teach me to fake it.
UR Nin, the Pain Artist
WUB Zur the Enchanter (Retired)
UB Oona, Queen of the Fae (Pseudo-Retired)
This "love" intrigues me. Teach me to fake it.
UR Nin, the Pain Artist
WUB Zur the Enchanter (Retired)
UB Oona, Queen of the Fae (Pseudo-Retired)
URThe Joy of Painting with Nin, the Pain Artist!UR
This "love" intrigues me. Teach me to fake it.
UR Nin, the Pain Artist
WUB Zur the Enchanter (Retired)
UB Oona, Queen of the Fae (Pseudo-Retired)
What are your thoughts on other MTG EDH Streamers?
URThe Joy of Painting with Nin, the Pain Artist!UR
My experience with MTGO and online opponents so far is generally positive. I am only running the "multiplayer budget decklist" given in the OP on MTGO, since that's all I can afford at the moment. After maybe ten or so test games learning the beta interface and some of the nuances, I started keeping track of my online games, because I'm an empirical kind if guy. After the test games, I have played 21 games so far, with a record of 18 wins, 3 losses. Also, when I request a match, I have included a request for competitive decks, out of respect for my opponent's time and enjoyment. That's just my spirit of EDH. Most of the games go long (partly because I'm not an amazing pilot, and make tons of mistakes), and end in concessions. Also, I've been playing these games 1v1, mostly to see if the multiplayer list I have can do fine 1v1, and because the games are quicker. One beef I have with MTGO is that when I assemble the Rings of Brighthearth/Basalt Monolith infinite mana combo, there is soooooo much clicking back and forth to get enough mana to deck someone with Nin that it's super annoying for both my opponent and myself, when it's 10 minutes of clicking to actually kill them. I have only played one multiplayer game online so far against Riku and Sygg, which was pretty fun. I lucked out and had both Rings and Basalt Monolith in my hand with Nin in play by turn 6 with both of my opponents (who were really friendly guys) tapped out. Barring a Force of Will, I had the game there, but was having fun so just played the Monolith and said go. A bunch of crazy things happened over the next 15 turns or so, including a couple of board wipes by me, and it was pretty fun. Then the game crashed off of my suspend trigger from Ancestral Vision and we called it a night. Anyway, even the budget list was performing very well.
There were two other games I can recall worth mentioning here: the first loss I had was against the new Mindrazer zombie guy where I mulliganed into a hand with two U lands, no acceleration, Shackles, a Gilded Drake, and some other stuff. Anyway, he made all of his land drops, and I didn't draw a land for four turns and ended up with an uncastable Nin and expensive mana rocks off of my draws. He was running counters too, and I got too far behind and lost. One thing I've been learning is to mulligan aggressively. Another game of note had me mulligan down to 3 cards: Island, Island, Izzet Signet. I proceeded to draw Memory Lapse, Coalition Relic, Chain Reaction, land, and Gilded Lotus over the next five turns. I let him play out three weenie utility (i.e. annoying) creatures over the first few turns, then wiped the board, Memory Lapsed his next play, and played the Lotus and drew Trinket Mage into Sol Ring and got so far ahead of him, leading to victory. It was awesome to comeback like that, after having to mulligan to three. I still need to work out recording a few games, because the beta version of MTGO has disabled replays, for the time being.
This "love" intrigues me. Teach me to fake it.
UR Nin, the Pain Artist
WUB Zur the Enchanter (Retired)
UB Oona, Queen of the Fae (Pseudo-Retired)
This "love" intrigues me. Teach me to fake it.
UR Nin, the Pain Artist
WUB Zur the Enchanter (Retired)
UB Oona, Queen of the Fae (Pseudo-Retired)
OUT:
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Pestermite
Chain Reaction
IN:
Impulse
Steam Augury
Karn Liberated
I'm thinking that, like Tezzeret the Seeker, Karn Liberated can be a one-card win condition, as long as you play smart enough to deploy him at the right time and protect him. We'll see how these changes stand up.
This "love" intrigues me. Teach me to fake it.
UR Nin, the Pain Artist
WUB Zur the Enchanter (Retired)
UB Oona, Queen of the Fae (Pseudo-Retired)
Hidetsugu - Combo Damage
Ezuri - Elfball
Theorycrafting:
Selvala - "A hunter must hunt."
Selvala - Budget
Anyway, I have made some updates to the opening post with some very minor changes to the deck. My local playgroup hasn't been meeting very often due to life getting in the way (;)) and so I've been playing mostly on MTGO, and, over this time, have acquired all of the cards I need to run the given list. Also, I've pretty much been playing 1v1 exclusively, since it's quick to get a game in, and fun. At this point, the list is very similar to the list Brian Weissman put together, so he deserves the credit for the list. I would guess that my list is only about 7-10 cards different from his, and you can all watch several of his matches on youtube which are very enjoyable. Someone asked me the other day what the differences were, and, off the top of my head, they were as follows:
The cards I run that Brian does not are: Sower of Temptation, Telepathy, Venser, Shaper Savant, Ral Zarek, Blasphemous Act, Pongify, and Thirst for Knowledge. If I recall correctly (and I have never seen his detailed list because I do not believe that he publishes it), the cards that Brian runs that I do not are: Amnesia, Preordain, Keranos, God of Storms (although I think he recently cut this for Dack Fayden), and obviously a few other cards, maybe some more conditional counters like Daze and a couple pseudo-mana rocks like Wayfarer's Bauble.
This "love" intrigues me. Teach me to fake it.
UR Nin, the Pain Artist
WUB Zur the Enchanter (Retired)
UB Oona, Queen of the Fae (Pseudo-Retired)
This "love" intrigues me. Teach me to fake it.
UR Nin, the Pain Artist
WUB Zur the Enchanter (Retired)
UB Oona, Queen of the Fae (Pseudo-Retired)
I want to start off by saying that I have played you a few times on MTGO as well as Brian himself and I joined MTGSalvation just to respond to this post when I found it today! Ha!
I have my own Nin deck online as well as IRL and I have to say she is largely overlooked as a competitive commander, but she is an outstanding general.
I first built her as a 1v1 general and I loved her so much I wanted to make her into a multiplayer deck and play her at my local meta. I used Brian's list as starting point for my multiplayer list and I must admit, I did change quite a few things about her from his list.
One thing that puzzles me is her win-cons. What Brian considers a win-con in 1v1 cannot be considered a win-con in multiplayer. I would never depend on 2 of my three win-cons being planeswalker ultimates. As Tezzeret and Karn are bombs in Nin, they are not dependable win-cons due to the amount of resources you have to invest to protect them as well as how hard they are to protect for 3-4 turns. I would consider Reiterate and Turnabout as a second infinite mana combo that is also tutorable in your list. They are outstanding cards on their own and one of the best combos in multiplayer for izzet in my opinion.
I agree with you about Brian's land count it does need to be higher.
A few cards I think are great in Nin for multiplayer:
Darksteel Plate - Difficult to remove, makes Nin and/or Nin's sniping target repeatable card draw as well as a survivor after any of our red board wipes.
Chamber of Manipulation - Has a few notable weaknesses but kind of like a second REALLY BAD Vedalken Shackles. Makes the land it enchants a huge target but with the number of mana rocks we run we shouldn't care about our lands as much.
Isochron Scepter - I have seen somewhere where either you or Brian argued this card down and explained why you wouldn't play it, but I play NO creatures so it is better in my build. I would consider playing it maybe, I have had good success with it.
A few cards I would consider removing:
Ancestral Visions - Although great on an Isochron Scepter, 4 turns is a high price to pay late game in order to draw cards. I would rather this be Concentrate honestly. She is a very reactive general and I would consider Mystic Remora or Rystic Study over it. They can easily draw you more than 3 cards over their lifetime and can slow your opponents down.
Remand - I find counterspells to be far less powerfull than most people would agree in multiplayer but Remand is probably one of the worst ones. I admit some spells just cannot resolve especially when your opponent plays combo, but I would rather this be Arcane Denial or any other hard counter.
I have a few other opinions as well but to keep my first post as focused as possible I'll just mention my most pressing one:
Proteus Staff
I do not know of any creatures in UR that I want to play in Nin over my Proteus Staff. I use it simply as a sorcery speed topdeck tutor in my no creatures list. I can also throw Nin onto the battlefield without much fear of getting her tucked, allowing me to save my protection resources for more pressing matters.
Since I am pressed for time, I must cut it off here. I can post my own list soon if you would like.