This is my Thraximundar deck, thrown together from the remains of a Jeleva deck (so boring) and stuff I had in my binder. I need to optimize it, and I would appreciate any help in doing so. There are some obvious cuts (especially since I'm at 103 cards), but help would still be appreciated.
I'm going for a grixis goodstuffy deck with Thrax voltron as a subtheme, so I'll probably need to add some counters.
I'll likely throw in Chaos Warp, but I'm keeping Hero's in. The instant speed and ability to hit a walker is just too good to ignore.
H.Lich has done a lot of work. I can either recur my own things for an additional mana or steal someone's big thing. Myself and others have used it for some very good stuff.
You can have a look at my Thrax list (see sig) which Ive been working on for a loooong time. Its pretty strong, somewhat affordable and loads of fun. Slightly different from yours. Feel free to comment.
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MODERN Blue Lantern, UBx Tezzerator. OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
Thanks, Rad. I'll check it out and even talk in your thread a bit. Sharing experiences will help both of us, especially since no one other than Duel Commander players are really discussing her, and even that is rare.
Yawgs, I'm definitely cutting my curve by a good bit in order to not be hit too hard by artifact destruction. I also cut Cruel since it only really screws over one player, but I may put it back in since I'm also keeping Mind Twist and Rakdos's Return in here which do the same basic thing in some ways.\
Chainer's Edict seems nice, but you can't target with it, which I don't like in the slightest.
Rooftop Storm, Phyrexian Altar and something like Gravecrawler will make infinite mana, though. And in these colors, there are a million ways to spend it - giant Exsanguinate being the first one to pop into my head. I went the zombie tribal route in these colors, it's a ton of fun!
The list has changed quite a lot with about twenty cards or so swapped around. There are definitely a few cards I'm iffy on (Thassa, Notion Thief), but I am very interested to see how they work out.
I also have a Sunder and a Hatred that could go in, but this is mostly a meta call. Besides, Hatred has always been fairly meh to me in multiplayer.
Spot Removal - you have sort of a high spot removal count for multiplayer to be honest. Remember that with spot removal they are card disadvantage where you are only answering a single card with them generally speaking and you have three opponents. Don't get me wrong in the fact that they are very important but you might also consider how many you have here because they dont generate very good value overall and a lot of things dont really need to be spot removed so much as pushed aside sometimes with some sort of tax to attack, deathtoucher, or just big blocker options. I am also really not a fan of sorcery speed spot removal as its just sooo slow. Its something to consider at least.
Dimir Charm personally, it feels sort of weak to be honest. Its a bad spot removal and or a bad counter. I dont really feel like it does any of its jobs well enough to make it into a commander deck.
Dismiss -> Pact of Negation dismiss is a little expensive to cast and to be honest I really like having pact in three color control decks. Pact lets you tap out to cast your commander and have a backup for someone trying to tuck you or go off. I tend to prefer cheap and easy answers to the larger flashier ones like this where you get to draw a card.
Reanimate -> Necromancy the big thing for me here is that there isnt a lot of justification as to why to run Reanimate specifically. Its cheap but you cant really build arround that in this format and so there is the question of why loose the life when you dont really need to. Necromancy is a great reanimation because of the option to make it instant speed in a pinch.
Swiftfoot Boots -> Lightning Greaves I dont really see a reason to run hexproof over shroud here. Free equip is better than pay to equip.
Nim Deathmantle - I have a bit of worry about your low creature count in general here. I suppose perhaps you are playing it just to try to keep thrax in play and it could be as evasion for him but in general, I am not too impressed by it in a low creature count deck.
Massacre Wurm its just shakey as to its results in general I suppose. When I used to play him, about 80% of the time I couldnt do much with him. You really need a token player to drop a ton of tokens in play and pass back to you without pumping them or killing you on the spot with them to make the wurm really much good. Its one of those things that I just found too often to be not what I wanted.
Rakdos's Return -> Myojin of Night's Reach you have a little bit of discard in here but are running player targeting discard. In multiplayer a lot of times you have to consider all of your opponents instead of just hosing one of them off the table I often like effects that hit multiple opponents. You run enough ramp that hitting Myojin should be a reasonable thing.
Notion Thief just be very very careful with him I guess... I saw someone else play him the other day in response to a wheel. He died before the turn was out as the player who wheeled, wheeled again based on max hand size with a Jace's Archivist he had in play and just outright killed him since he drew like 30 cards in the first wheel. Thief is best played in a sac outlet heavy deck in my opinion and I just dont get that vibe here. He is powerful but he can also kill you very easily.
Overall, it looks like you are putting sort of all your marbles in on Thrax connecting for lethal. I would consider some alternate wincons potentially as it can be very difficult to always have to rely on Thrax to do your damage. Back when I used to play thrax people would regularly kill him and my mana stones knowing I couldn't nicely recast him a lot. I like to think of thrax as a wincon but when its your only plan to really connect it makes it a lot harder on getting your mana quick and pushing it really high without getting it disrupted. Oh, Dragon Wings is also a nice piece of evasion for thrax as well because you can cycle it and it will auto rez on thrax when he comes out giving him some nice evasion.
Thanks for the detailed critique, I really appreciate it. I'll keep it very much in mind over the next few days as I rework the deck.
One thing I'm stuck on, though, is alternate wincons in thwse colors. I haven't played Grixis enough to really know too many.
Some potential alternative wincons could be:
Grave Titan - he comes with a few friends and makes more each turn so even if he gets answered immediately he still has a few tokens to show.
Army of the Damned - it comes with a LOT of guys and it has flashback so it can be used twice which is nice. Its sort of a pain in the ass to answer it twice as well.
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth / Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre I usually dont suggest going deep and adding both in one shot but both have different advantages and disadvantages. Kozilek is nice in that he brings in some card advantage and if stolen isnt that hard to deal with but on the flip side is easier to deal with. Ulamog can deal with enchantments which can be a huge pain for the colors and is hard to remove but on the flip side, if he is stolen can be a pain to remove.
Inferno Titan the firebreathing is reasonable on it and it can deal with tokens and utility creatures fairly well. Its a well sized creature for its cost.
Exsanguinate its a nice life swing option. It keeps you in the game longer and brings your opponents closer to dying.
Kokusho, the Evening Star a nice life swing and a decent body to him. I like him more in sac oultlet based decks but he is still reasonable.
Vicious Shadows to be honest, its usually something I prefer to run in token and aggro decks but it could be used from a control perspective especially along side a wrath or something to really wrack up some damage. Its a little awkward though as you might be relying more on what your opponents are playing to make it good. Still, it packs a lot of punch.
Those are just a handful of alternate options really. Grixus control style of decks do have some awkwardness in their wincons though to be honest. Still, considering adding a few backup plans and alternate creatures to cast can keep you from being overly dependent on Thrax.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
1 Thraximundar
Removal:
1 Go for the Throat
1 Sever the Bloodline
1 Ashes to Ashes
1 Hero's Downfall
1 Terminate
1 Chaos Warp
1 Dismember
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Decree of Pain
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Vandalblast
Counters:
1 Dimir Charm
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Hinder
1 Arcane Denial
1 Spell Crumple
1 Counterspell
1 Dismiss
General Goodstuff:
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Animate Dead
1 Time Warp
1 Reanimate
1 Rite of Replication
Tutors:
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Expedition Map
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Fabricate
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Beseech the Queen
1 Lim-Dul's Vault
1 Godo, Bandit Warlord
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Nim Deathmantle
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
Ramp:
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Burnished Hart
1 Coalition Relic
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Sol Ring
1 Izzet Signet
1 Dimir Signet
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Mana Vault
1 Chromatic Lantern
General Grixis controly stuff:
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
1 Mind Twist
1 Massacre Wurm
1 Torpor Orb
1 Rakdos's Return
1 Notion Thief
Card draw:
1 Time Spiral
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Bloodgift Demon
1 Necropotence
1 Recurring Insight
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Disciple of Bolas
3 Mountain
6 Swamp
6 Island
1 Tainted Isle
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Sulfurous Springs
1 Shadowblood Ridge
1 Darkwater Catacombs
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Watery Grave
1 River of Tears
1 Crumbling Necropolis
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Shivan Reef
1 Underground River
1 Command Tower
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Blood Crypt
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Steam Vents
I'm going for a grixis goodstuffy deck with Thrax voltron as a subtheme, so I'll probably need to add some counters.
Does H.Lich to do anything for you in your meta? I always thought it was a heavy "build-around" card...
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
H.Lich has done a lot of work. I can either recur my own things for an additional mana or steal someone's big thing. Myself and others have used it for some very good stuff.
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
Shizo, Minamo
Cruel Ultimatum
Your curve is very top end, so Gilded Lotus and maybe Gem of Becoming. I'd start with 38 lands and keep all the ramp you have in there already.
Yawgs, I'm definitely cutting my curve by a good bit in order to not be hit too hard by artifact destruction. I also cut Cruel since it only really screws over one player, but I may put it back in since I'm also keeping Mind Twist and Rakdos's Return in here which do the same basic thing in some ways.\
Chainer's Edict seems nice, but you can't target with it, which I don't like in the slightest.
Also, Rooftop Storm and an Altar don't generate infinite mana. You still have to pay the commander tax, unfortunately.
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Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsI also have a Sunder and a Hatred that could go in, but this is mostly a meta call. Besides, Hatred has always been fairly meh to me in multiplayer.
I also could find room for a couple cards to give Thrax infect like Corrupted Conscience or Phyresis.
Dimir Charm personally, it feels sort of weak to be honest. Its a bad spot removal and or a bad counter. I dont really feel like it does any of its jobs well enough to make it into a commander deck.
Dismiss -> Pact of Negation dismiss is a little expensive to cast and to be honest I really like having pact in three color control decks. Pact lets you tap out to cast your commander and have a backup for someone trying to tuck you or go off. I tend to prefer cheap and easy answers to the larger flashier ones like this where you get to draw a card.
Reanimate -> Necromancy the big thing for me here is that there isnt a lot of justification as to why to run Reanimate specifically. Its cheap but you cant really build arround that in this format and so there is the question of why loose the life when you dont really need to. Necromancy is a great reanimation because of the option to make it instant speed in a pinch.
Swiftfoot Boots -> Lightning Greaves I dont really see a reason to run hexproof over shroud here. Free equip is better than pay to equip.
Nim Deathmantle - I have a bit of worry about your low creature count in general here. I suppose perhaps you are playing it just to try to keep thrax in play and it could be as evasion for him but in general, I am not too impressed by it in a low creature count deck.
Sword of Feast and Famine your creature count is low enough that I am questioning its inclusion.
Sword of Light and Shadow your creature count is low enough that I am questioning its inclusion.
Godo, Bandit Warlord while questioning your equipment I also question godo.
Massacre Wurm its just shakey as to its results in general I suppose. When I used to play him, about 80% of the time I couldnt do much with him. You really need a token player to drop a ton of tokens in play and pass back to you without pumping them or killing you on the spot with them to make the wurm really much good. Its one of those things that I just found too often to be not what I wanted.
Rakdos's Return -> Myojin of Night's Reach you have a little bit of discard in here but are running player targeting discard. In multiplayer a lot of times you have to consider all of your opponents instead of just hosing one of them off the table I often like effects that hit multiple opponents. You run enough ramp that hitting Myojin should be a reasonable thing.
Notion Thief just be very very careful with him I guess... I saw someone else play him the other day in response to a wheel. He died before the turn was out as the player who wheeled, wheeled again based on max hand size with a Jace's Archivist he had in play and just outright killed him since he drew like 30 cards in the first wheel. Thief is best played in a sac outlet heavy deck in my opinion and I just dont get that vibe here. He is powerful but he can also kill you very easily.
Overall, it looks like you are putting sort of all your marbles in on Thrax connecting for lethal. I would consider some alternate wincons potentially as it can be very difficult to always have to rely on Thrax to do your damage. Back when I used to play thrax people would regularly kill him and my mana stones knowing I couldn't nicely recast him a lot. I like to think of thrax as a wincon but when its your only plan to really connect it makes it a lot harder on getting your mana quick and pushing it really high without getting it disrupted. Oh, Dragon Wings is also a nice piece of evasion for thrax as well because you can cycle it and it will auto rez on thrax when he comes out giving him some nice evasion.
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[Modern] Allies
One thing I'm stuck on, though, is alternate wincons in thwse colors. I haven't played Grixis enough to really know too many.
Some potential alternative wincons could be:
Grave Titan - he comes with a few friends and makes more each turn so even if he gets answered immediately he still has a few tokens to show.
Army of the Damned - it comes with a LOT of guys and it has flashback so it can be used twice which is nice. Its sort of a pain in the ass to answer it twice as well.
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth / Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre I usually dont suggest going deep and adding both in one shot but both have different advantages and disadvantages. Kozilek is nice in that he brings in some card advantage and if stolen isnt that hard to deal with but on the flip side is easier to deal with. Ulamog can deal with enchantments which can be a huge pain for the colors and is hard to remove but on the flip side, if he is stolen can be a pain to remove.
Inferno Titan the firebreathing is reasonable on it and it can deal with tokens and utility creatures fairly well. Its a well sized creature for its cost.
Exsanguinate its a nice life swing option. It keeps you in the game longer and brings your opponents closer to dying.
Kokusho, the Evening Star a nice life swing and a decent body to him. I like him more in sac oultlet based decks but he is still reasonable.
Vicious Shadows to be honest, its usually something I prefer to run in token and aggro decks but it could be used from a control perspective especially along side a wrath or something to really wrack up some damage. Its a little awkward though as you might be relying more on what your opponents are playing to make it good. Still, it packs a lot of punch.
Those are just a handful of alternate options really. Grixus control style of decks do have some awkwardness in their wincons though to be honest. Still, considering adding a few backup plans and alternate creatures to cast can keep you from being overly dependent on Thrax.
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[Modern] Allies
Yeah, I've noticed that the wincons can be really awkward, lol. I'm used to RUG with Maelstrom at the helm and full of wincons.